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Naelbis
06-04-2011, 00:45
So I was at work today and something struck me about our newest crop of young newbies. Basically over the last two years we have replaced our entire patrol division except for the Sgt positions with rookies straight out of the academy. Every single one of them, without fail, is gungho to fight and slap the cuffs on everyone they come across that gives them an excuse. But every time we send them to a service call, you know the quality of life stuff or medical, they whine and complain about how that isn't their job and that they are cops not(insert other job description here). When did the SERVE part of To Serve and To Protect get lost? :crying:

Gangrel
06-04-2011, 01:08
Weird... Opposite here.

DaBigBR
06-04-2011, 02:38
Does anybody else think Naelbis' avatar looks like a ******?

OldCurlyWolf
06-04-2011, 03:21
It does look a little strange.

MeefZah
06-04-2011, 03:29
Does anybody else think Naelbis' avatar looks like a ******?

Dude, I have almost posted a question in several threads he has contributed to asking him WTF that is, exactly. I mean, I know what I think it is, but I'd like to know how far off base I am...

OldScribe2009
06-04-2011, 03:34
Does anybody else think Naelbis' avatar looks like a ******?

Talk about off-topic...

DaBigBR
06-04-2011, 04:04
Talk about off-topic...

It's late, I'm tired, what can I say?

Naelbis
06-04-2011, 04:05
Lol its a cropped picture of the Angel of Death, the fullsize was too big to use as an avatar.....Perverts...here is the fullsize version.:whistling:

DustyJacket
06-04-2011, 05:59
Back in the day, I helped change flat tires, break into cars with keys locked inside, and our cars in my first PD had a special hook-up to make it easier and safer to jump-start cars.


My first PD's motto: Service is our most important product
(Small department, small town, back in the 1970s when PDs were cleaning up their images)

Kegs
06-04-2011, 06:28
Does anybody else think Naelbis' avatar looks like a ******?

YES. You are not alone. Crop it a little tighter and there it would be.


Naelbis: Hopefully you can get these new guys pointed in the right direction.

USAFE7
06-04-2011, 06:33
Does anybody else think Naelbis' avatar looks like a ******?

Lol its a cropped picture of the Angel of Death

Same thing.......

Dragoon44
06-04-2011, 06:55
you know the quality of life stuff or medical,

No I don't know, what exactly is Quality of life "stuff"? and why are cops sent on medical calls?

Hunca Munca
06-04-2011, 07:43
No I don't know, what exactly is Quality of life "stuff"? and why are cops sent on medical calls?

There are usually more squad cars than ambulances. So, a squad car usually can get there more quickly than an ambulance. Thus, when the caller and all of the neighbors look outside they see something with blinky lights and are happy with a "quick response", even if the responding officer has the medical skills and knowledge of a dead squirrel.

lwt210
06-04-2011, 07:44
No I don't know, what exactly is Quality of life "stuff"? and why are cops sent on medical calls?

We had a call the other day where dispatch sent two units to a "74 year old female who is delusional and medics advise that they have to use restraints".

Not only are medics there but there is also a pumper truck as the FD responds to all med calls.

So in essence, there is already five or six folks there dealing with the 74 year old woman.

Asinine.

Basically, it came down to "lets call the PD so that they can assume the liability if this old lady's arm falls of when we manhandle her."

Sam Spade
06-04-2011, 07:58
There's a fine line, no doubt about it. And each community is going to draw the line differently---I'm not talking about the elected morons, but the broader community expectations.

merlynusn
06-04-2011, 08:01
I know a lot of stuff now is liability. That dreaded word. We don't open cars anymore for people because our department kept getting sued for "damaging" the vehicle. So of course instead of fighting it, they'd pay the person $2000 to go away because it was cheaper. So eventually we just stopped opening cars and making them call a locksmith. Same thing with jumps, it'll fry some of our electronics because our cars aren't wired correctly. We make them call a tow truck.

As to serving. I was just reminded yesterday. I had a problem with a kid a couple of months ago when he was being disrespectful. I called his mom and she came down and said she'd take care of it. I saw her last night on an unrelated call and she said that they haven't had a single problem with him since that day.

Mayhem like Me
06-04-2011, 08:03
Lol its a cropped picture of the Angel of Death, the fullsize was too big to use as an avatar.....Perverts...here is the fullsize version.:whistling:

I thought is was a little man.....nevermind

rhikdavis
06-04-2011, 08:08
Not only are medics there but there is also a pumper truck as the FD responds to all med calls.



Nothing smaller?

boomhower
06-04-2011, 08:15
We have at least one car on every shift that carries an AED. To the best of my knowledge they have never been used though.

Kadetklapp
06-04-2011, 08:21
Nothing smaller?

Hey, u.gotta justify that $300,000 expense somehow.

Naelbis
06-04-2011, 08:24
No I don't know, what exactly is Quality of life "stuff"? and why are cops sent on medical calls?
The stuff like barking/lost dogs, bats in the house, loud neighbors, my kid won't listen, Grandma needs to give up her car keys or even the "I am old and lonely" calls. And we send officers to medical because there is only one ambulance crew on for the county at a time vs 9-10 officers out and about. What really got under my skin about the medical was a younger officer refused to give basic first aid to a fight victim the other night and said "that is what EMT's are for, I am not getting blood on me". This is despite the fact that every unit has an AED and basic first aid kit and the guy couldn't see because of the gash on his forehead. Give him a stinking gauze pad and tell him to apply pressure for crying out loud.:dunno:

nikerret
06-04-2011, 08:35
We have at least one car on every shift that carries an AED. To the best of my knowledge they have never been used though.

Give it to me...I seem to do more than my fair share of CPR. Thus far, lost them all. If I had an AED, it would all but guarantee no need to remove it from the vehicle.

We go to a lot of the medical calls. Our FD/EMS is always short staffed and we can carry stuff. We also deal with family/lookyloos. Road selection around here can be tough in bad weather. I've had to get on the radio to tell them not to go the "usual" way to get to a call. Also, it makes people feel better when someone is there; even if you are just asking basic questions and trying not to vomit.


My first Sheriff was all about service and community relations. One day, my FTO and I stayed at an elderly couples house for almost three hours (we had no calls holding or come up). The couple showed us a bunch of antiques and gave us a tour of their very old homestead. The Sheriff thought it was great because he heard about our friendliness from people in town talking about how happy it made the old couple to have someone to share their "treasures" with.

Service is still expected around here. One day, I assisted an elderly woman down a flight of stairs so she could sit with her family to view a parade (all of the family was very old). That same day, I yelled at a woman for being a moron when she parked her vehicle in the exit of the parking lot, blocking my car and several others in with no escape. Guess which one the Sheriff heard about.

nikerret
06-04-2011, 08:38
What really got under my skin about the medical was a younger officer refused to give basic first aid to a fight victim the other night and said "that is what EMT's are for, I am not getting blood on me". This is despite the fact that every unit has an AED and basic first aid kit and the guy couldn't see because of the gash on his forehead. Give him a stinking gauze pad and tell him to apply pressure for crying out loud.:dunno:

I got yelled at by a girl when I couldn't give her a tissue to stop her nosebleed. She said I should give her my uniform shirt when I told her I couldn't give her what I did not have.

Dragoon44
06-04-2011, 08:46
The stuff like barking/lost dogs, bats in the house, loud neighbors, my kid won't listen, Grandma needs to give up her car keys or even the "I am old and lonely" calls.

Ahh gotcha, we called that "Stupid crap" calls.

but there is also a pumper truck as the FD responds to all med calls.

Yeah they started that crap around here many years ago, and the only reason for it is to drive up the Fire Depts stats so they can claim they went to X number of calls. that is how they get the new expensive pumpers that they hardly ever actually use while the PD drives around in worn out cars.

Naelbis
06-04-2011, 09:05
Ahh gotcha, we called that "Stupid crap" calls.
Stupid crap it may be, but the public remembers when an officer shows up and is polite and helpful versus surly and annoyed. One good impression on this type of call can ripple through the community and create more good PR (or bad will if it goes another way) than all the righteous busts in the world.

Dragoon44
06-04-2011, 09:23
Stupid crap it may be, but the public remembers when an officer shows up and is polite and helpful versus surly and annoyed. One good impression on this type of call can ripple through the community and create more good PR (or bad will if it goes another way) than all the righteous busts in the world.

And how many of those calls have YOU been dispatched to?

you seem to think it is just dandy that officers are dispatched to things like this which in fact, are NOT their jobs. And years ago they would NOT have been dispatched to. But Police administrators have them dispatched to now because they want to pad their stats and say they answered X amount of complaints that month.

Those type of calls are the kind the "Deadwood" on the Dept. really love, they will milk them for as many hours as possible. While the rest of the shift has to do their own work and now shoulder The deadwoods as well while he milks the nuisance call for all the time he can.

I think if a Dept. wants to handle these type calls (at least the ones that are obviously not LE related) they should do what many depts do and utilize auxiliary or "volunteer" officers to handle these type of tasks .

DustyJacket
06-04-2011, 09:27
Nothing smaller?

Denver FD got a mini-van to respond to ambulance calls. The FD handles the extraction, or getting the patient to the whambulance.

The paramedics stabilize the patient before they are moved, and "attend" the patient through the trip to the van and then to the hospital.

The minivan seems like a good idea.

OldCurlyWolf
06-04-2011, 09:28
I know a lot of stuff now is liability. That dreaded word. We don't open cars anymore for people because our department kept getting sued for "damaging" the vehicle. So of course instead of fighting it, they'd pay the person $2000 to go away because it was cheaper. So eventually we just stopped opening cars and making them call a locksmith. Same thing with jumps, it'll fry some of our electronics because our cars aren't wired correctly. We make them call a tow truck.

It has been that way in many depts for well over 30 years.

As to serving. I was just reminded yesterday. I had a problem with a kid a couple of months ago when he was being disrespectful. I called his mom and she came down and said she'd take care of it. I saw her last night on an unrelated call and she said that they haven't had a single problem with him since that day.

Don't you just love it when it works that way?


In relation to good parents and smart LEO's

About 13 years ago, I had a local LEO knock on our door to tell me one of our vehicles had been burglarized and they had caught a group of juveniles that had done it and had recovered a bunch of property from our vehicle and several others. I went to where the property, juveniles, LEO's and parents were to recover my property. While there one of the juveniles back talked his mother and got popped so hard you could hear it over radios and running vehicles from well over 100 feet away. What was really good about that is Momma was telling Junior he better tell the truth and all of it and the LEO's total Non-reaction the Momma's discipline of Junior. Made me want to applaud.:cool:

Naelbis
06-04-2011, 09:55
And how many of those calls have YOU been dispatched to?

you seem to think it is just dandy that officers are dispatched to things like this which in fact, are NOT their jobs. And years ago they would NOT have been dispatched to. But Police administrators have them dispatched to now because they want to pad their stats and say they answered X amount of complaints that month.

Those type of calls are the kind the "Deadwood" on the Dept. really love, they will milk them for as many hours as possible. While the rest of the shift has to do their own work and now shoulder The deadwoods as well while he milks the nuisance call for all the time he can.

I think if a Dept. wants to handle these type calls (at least the ones that are obviously not LE related) they should do what many depts do and utilize auxiliary or "volunteer" officers to handle these type of tasks .
Our job is whatever the public and admin says it is, and that includes doing more than just arresting people and writing traffic citations. Pretty sure it is called community policing, and it actually works pretty well when implemented properly. I dunno, maybe its a rural vs big city thing.:upeyes:

trdvet
06-04-2011, 10:00
Our job is whatever the public and admin says it is

Is your department accredited?

Sam Spade
06-04-2011, 10:11
Is your department accredited?


Nooooooooo! For the love of baby kittens, don't go there!!

MeefZah
06-04-2011, 10:35
Those type of calls are the kind the "Deadwood" on the Dept. really love, they will milk them for as many hours as possible. While the rest of the shift has to do their own work and now shoulder The deadwoods as well while he milks the nuisance call for all the time he can.

I'm certainly not "deadwood" and I personally love going to EMS calls. I could do without the nusiance calls but that's part of the job, and honestly, we can actually help most of those people out - unlike the ones that are victimized and then victimized again by the courts. At least the guy calling about the barking dog gets some immediate resolution to his complaint.

trdvet
06-04-2011, 10:58
Nooooooooo! For the love of baby kittens, don't go there!!

:supergrin:

steveksux
06-04-2011, 11:52
Lol its a cropped picture of the Angel of Death, the fullsize was too big to use as an avatar.....Perverts...here is the fullsize version.:whistling:So, he wasn't very far off at all then! :whistling::rofl:

I thought is was a little man.....nevermindThe little man that makes us do bad things.

Randy

steveksux
06-04-2011, 12:00
And how many of those calls have YOU been dispatched to?

you seem to think it is just dandy that officers are dispatched to things like this which in fact, are NOT their jobs. And years ago they would NOT have been dispatched to. But Police administrators have them dispatched to now because they want to pad their stats and say they answered X amount of complaints that month.

Those type of calls are the kind the "Deadwood" on the Dept. really love, they will milk them for as many hours as possible. While the rest of the shift has to do their own work and now shoulder The deadwoods as well while he milks the nuisance call for all the time he can.

I think if a Dept. wants to handle these type calls (at least the ones that are obviously not LE related) they should do what many depts do and utilize auxiliary or "volunteer" officers to handle these type of tasks .
In Detroit with the response time issues they have (not complaining, they're short staffed....) it would be ridiculous to bother with these kinds of stuff, wasting manpower and tying up units.

I had a guy come up to me and say some other guy was spitting on him from an upper level at the old Tiger Stadium when I was a reserve. Not sure if he wanted me to arrest the guy, or what. :dunno: Not much you can do when you don't witness something like that.

Randy

South Fla
06-04-2011, 12:35
Those type of calls are the kind the "Deadwood" on the Dept. really love, they will milk them for as many hours as possible. While the rest of the shift has to do their own work and now shoulder The deadwoods as well while he milks the nuisance call for all the time he can.


I see the opposite here. Guys will write a book of tickets a day so they won't have to take service calls and fight calls where they might have to lock somebody up because the might get their hands and uniforms dirty.

Dragoon44
06-04-2011, 12:52
Our job is whatever the public and admin says it is

Admin yes, Public No, don'r know where you work but where I work police policies and procedures are not up for public vote.

Overall I see the type of police work you espouse ( and that many depts adopt) is part of the far lefts agenda. An agenda promoting complete dependence on govt. Whatever your need, why th govt. (usually the police) are just a phone call away to meet your every need, whether it be real or perceived.

Don't try to handle your own problems or your own life, let the Govt. do it for you.

CAcop
06-04-2011, 13:54
I see the opposite here. Guys will write a book of tickets a day so they won't have to take service calls and fight calls where they might have to lock somebody up because the might get their hands and uniforms dirty.

Same here.

We also have guys who sit there and work dope in other people's beats just so they can get a felony stat but they never take a cold domestic or other paper call on their beat.

Is it really beneath them to go roust the drunks from behind the businesses that are tired of people peeing on their back doors? Is it "a waste of time" to help out citizens with problems in their neighborhoods that don't involve low level drug pinches?

Dragoon44
06-04-2011, 14:10
Same here.

We also have guys who sit there and work dope in other people's beats just so they can get a felony stat but they never take a cold domestic or other paper call on their beat.

Is it really beneath them to go roust the drunks from behind the businesses that are tired of people peeing on their back doors? Is it "a waste of time" to help out citizens with problems in their neighborhoods that don't involve low level drug pinches?

Sounds like the two gung ho rookies my dept. turned loose as an "interdiction team". Their first big bust was on some old broken down hippie in an ancient station wagon. they spent 3 hours searching the thing after they got consent. The morons busted him for a few seeds they found in the carpet.

Towed his car, once out of jail of course he has no money to get his vehicle back so now the doper that was passing thru is now a resident.

Then the morons moved on to street "Drug buys" with the use of informants. they made 8 purchases before it came to my attention that they could not ID a SINGLE dealer who made the sales.

That stupidity came to an end once I asked the admins what thier response was going to be when the press started asking them about the Dept. drug dealer subsidy program.

:rofl::rofl:

South Fla
06-04-2011, 14:27
Is it "a waste of time" to help out citizens with problems in their neighborhoods that don't involve low level drug pinches?

Nope.

It is like NYC's "Broken Windows" program.

The more you help the citizens of the neighborhood, the more they are going to help you by being another 1,000 sets of eyes to your 2.

Then, you will find all the dope you want.

RocPO
06-04-2011, 15:20
The stuff like barking/lost dogs, bats in the house, loud neighbors, my kid won't listen, Grandma needs to give up her car keys or even the "I am old and lonely" calls. And we send officers to medical because there is only one ambulance crew on for the county at a time vs 9-10 officers out and about. What really got under my skin about the medical was a younger officer refused to give basic first aid to a fight victim the other night and said "that is what EMT's are for, I am not getting blood on me". This is despite the fact that every unit has an AED and basic first aid kit and the guy couldn't see because of the gash on his forehead. Give him a stinking gauze pad and tell him to apply pressure for crying out loud.:dunno:

Most of the issues you bring up are because people no longer can speak to one another. What happened to the days of going to your neighbors house and politely asking them to turn down the music or let them know that their dog has been barking all night? Why is that a Police issue? Don't even get me started on "my kids won't listen" calls. You expect me in 15 minutes to solve a problem you've been cultivating and allowing to happen for the last 15 years? You're the parent, not me. And then when I correct your child's behavior, I enjoy the complaint into the boss saying that I was "mean" to your kid. :dunno: It's a waste of my time.

Explain to me how someone is a "fight victim"? I've never heard of someone being a victim of a fight before. If they were involved in the fight voluntarily, they should have thought about that before they decided to get their ass kicked. Not my problem that he's bleeding. Wait for EMS.

It seems you have a skewed version of "Protect and Serve". I never signed up to be a social worker or a parent. I signed up to be a Police Officer. I could use time spent on SS like the above to actuall do *gasp* police work!

RocPO
06-04-2011, 15:22
Nope.

It is like NYC's "Broken Windows" program.

The more you help the citizens of the neighborhood, the more they are going to help you by being another 1,000 sets of eyes to your 2.

Then, you will find all the dope you want.

Yeah, along with the "No Snitching" T shirts, they'll drop a dime to their local Vice unit after you raise their kid for them... :whistling:

RocPO
06-04-2011, 15:27
Our job is whatever the public and admin says it is, and that includes doing more than just arresting people and writing traffic citations. Pretty sure it is called community policing, and it actually works pretty well when implemented properly. I dunno, maybe its a rural vs big city thing.:upeyes:

If it were up to the public, my job would be to open their doors for them and act as their house servant.

And that's not my job. I'm pretty sure Community policing is working together with the community to solve PROBLEMS, like gangs, narcotics, even complaints of excessive traffic violations in specific neigborhoods. Not wasting limited police resources on sending officers to a barking dog complaint or what neighbor put the trash out on the wrong day. :upeyes:

ateamer
06-04-2011, 15:53
Community policing is not going to "I'm lonely and want to talk to someone" calls, nor is it changing Widow Jones' light bulbs, nor is it responding to cats in trees or seven year old Bobby won't get out of bed and go to school. Community policing is working with the community to solve criminal problems. If it isn't a criminal act (that means fitting within the definition of a crime) or certain public safety matters (traffic control at accident scenes, disaster response, evacuations for wildland fires, etc.), it should be given to law enforcement to solve. Community policing properly implemented means more arrests and more cases solved, but it also means that the community understands that the police are there to handle crime, not wipe their noses.

S.O.Interceptor
06-04-2011, 17:17
I don't blame your trainees. I was hired to locate criminals and arrest said criminals, investigate crimes for the purpose of figuring out who said criminals are for the purpose of arresting them, and when time permits, locate criminals prior to their committing a crime.

No I don't know, what exactly is Quality of life "stuff"? and why are cops sent on medical calls?

Will you come run for sheriff, please?!?!?

I don't mind helping when I'm needed for the non-cop related stuff, such as someone dying. I can perform CPR and have done it countless times. But we are requested on some of the most ridiculous bull**** imaginable. EMS and fire cost us half our shifts. We rarely have time for paperwork and never have time for proactive work because we're constantly chasing bull****.

The stuff like barking/lost dogs, bats in the house, loud neighbors, my kid won't listen, Grandma needs to give up her car keys or even the "I am old and lonely" calls. And we send officers to medical because there is only one ambulance crew on for the county at a time vs 9-10 officers out and about. What really got under my skin about the medical was a younger officer refused to give basic first aid to a fight victim the other night and said "that is what EMT's are for, I am not getting blood on me". This is despite the fact that every unit has an AED and basic first aid kit and the guy couldn't see because of the gash on his forehead. Give him a stinking gauze pad and tell him to apply pressure for crying out loud.:dunno:

If someone has a problem with a barking dog, they can be an adult and speak to the dog owner. Thankfully we don't have an ordinance about barking dogs, so I tell complainants to speak to the owner. The same goes for loud neighbors. We also don't go to any wild animal calls unless they are an immediate danger. Bats/owls in the chimney/attic can always hold until animal control is available. I'm not equipped to deal with them and if you've ever tangled with an owl, you'll soon realize you aren't equipped for it either. We go to "piss pour parent" calls all the time, but the parents rarely like it.

Damn, your county would be fun to work in. Our county doesn't give a damn about us and under staffs us as much as possible. EMS outnumber us at all hours of the day. Add fire to that and we're outnumbered 10-1.

And as for the rookie who wouldn't treat the wound, he was in the right. If he isn't an EMT/Paramedic, he has no business doing anything but keeping the situation safe. I am certified in CPR and with my AED. Beyond that, I do NOTHING related to medical care.

Community policing is not going to "I'm lonely and want to talk to someone" calls, nor is it changing Widow Jones' light bulbs, nor is it responding to cats in trees or seven year old Bobby won't get out of bed and go to school. Community policing is working with the community to solve criminal problems. If it isn't a criminal act (that means fitting within the definition of a crime) or certain public safety matters (traffic control at accident scenes, disaster response, evacuations for wildland fires, etc.), it should be given to law enforcement to solve. Community policing properly implemented means more arrests and more cases solved, but it also means that the community understands that the police are there to handle crime, not wipe their noses.

You can be Dragoon's chief deputy if you'd like. :supergrin:

msu_grad_121
06-04-2011, 18:19
I can sorta see both sides of the issue. I've been the kid that's full of **** and vinegar and wanted to put the grabs on anyone and everyone I could, and I've done the PR portion of police work, and honestly, I don't see them as being mutually exclusive.

Granted, you can go too far either way, but if you can strike a nice balance, I think it garners some support from the community, which is important come election time when you have a millage on the ballot. It's NOT our job, but it IS our job, ya know?

As for the medical thing, I've done basic first aid on tons of people, been vilified for it by supervisors, thanked for it by the victim and EMS and even kicked myself for doing it. I'd say that's a more of a situational call than anything, but I personally don't mind doing very basic things. Of course, that opens you up to liability, so you're kind of damned if you do, damned if you don't.

I guess I haven't really contributed much to the thread, other than to say that I really don't see either way of working as being exclusive to one another. It really depends on the community you serve, I guess. :dunno:

rookie1
06-04-2011, 19:58
I am coming into this a little late. I do not want to get started on my liberal town who as Dragoon said will want the government to do everything for them if they don't know what to do. A fair share of our calls are a HUGE waste of our time.

Naelbis
06-04-2011, 20:03
I have concluded after reading the responses on here that it really is an attitude divide issue between rural/small town and big city policing. So I will simple stipulate that in my agency the Sheriff expects us to provide a certain level of service to the community above and beyond simply arresting people and our rookies don't want to get with the program.

Dragoon44
06-04-2011, 21:52
I am not surprised this is a sheriffs office. Most Sheriffs are POLITICIANS first and foremost so they want their deputies to kiss ass just like they do.

opelwasp
06-04-2011, 22:36
When did the SERVE part of To Serve and To Protect get lost? :crying:

My agency does not use the "To Serve and Protect" motto. I am so glad. We are already slaves to the public. No need to give a motto stating such.

Sharky7
06-05-2011, 00:22
What really got under my skin about the medical was a younger officer refused to give basic first aid to a fight victim the other night and said "that is what EMT's are for, I am not getting blood on me". This is despite the fact that every unit has an AED and basic first aid kit and the guy couldn't see because of the gash on his forehead. Give him a stinking gauze pad and tell him to apply pressure for crying out loud.:dunno:

To be honest, if it ain't life threatening on some drunk moron who wanted to fight, I'm not going to treat it either. He can suck it up for a few minutes until the ambulance gets there. He made the dumb decision to get into a fight.....now if he needed CPR, I would be all over it. If it's just a bleeding boo boo, I say wait a few. If he is bleeding out though, you better bet I would be treating that.

Sharky7
06-05-2011, 00:30
Sounds like their heart is in the right place. You have some hard core dedicated crime fighters....I would love to have that at my agency, a bunch of hard charging new guys looking to learn, get in the mix, and get some bad guys.

The community service approach may come with time. Guys who live in apartments or condo's don't care as much about "city services." You get married, have a family, live life a little....you start realizing more about the world and thinking about where all that tax money is going to and expect a bit in return.

Some things the guys are saying in this thread is dead on though. Law Enforcement aspect of the job comes first. Think about the people who call you when the power is out.....You don't call the power company when a burglar is breaking in, don't call the police when the power is out, we can't do anything. Lots of folks think we can solve every single problem for them - even if it has nothing to do with laws, law enforcement, or criminal matters. Sometimes we have to say enough is enough. The same people who complain about their "rights" want us to get involved in their civil matters. I can't pressure someone for you to do something you want in a civil matter....that's illegal and a misuse of my government position. We have to respect everyone's rights.

Panzergrenadier1979
06-05-2011, 04:32
The same people who complain about their "rights" want us to get involved in their civil matters. I can't pressure someone for you to do something you want in a civil matter....that's illegal and a misuse of my government position. We have to respect everyone's rights.

:goodpost:

It's sad how hostile some people get when they realize that you are not their "personal cop" and you have no intention of marching across the street and arresting their neighbor for a perceived civil offense.

ateamer
06-05-2011, 12:34
One more point: "To protect and serve" is LAPD's motto. They came up with it, and it's just theirs. Some people think that because they see it on TV and in movies that it is the motto by which all officers everywhere are bound by.

TBO
06-05-2011, 12:55
One more point: "To protect and serve" is LAPD's motto. They came up with it, and it's just theirs. Some people think that because they see it on TV and in movies that it is the motto by which all officers everywhere are bound by.
http://i54.tinypic.com/96hst5.jpg

Dukeboy01
06-05-2011, 13:36
Does anybody else think Naelbis' avatar looks like a ******?

I'm assumming that the "******" in your post was for the correct term for female genitalia.

In which case I have to ask: What kind of scary- ass women are you hanging around with?!

DaBigBR
06-05-2011, 17:33
I'm assumming that the "******" in your post was for the correct term for female genitalia.

In which case I have to ask: What kind of scary- ass women are you hanging around with?!

He's fixed the cropping a little bit. It was basically just the opening of the hood...couldn't see the clasped hands or much of anything else.

Hack
06-05-2011, 17:52
:rofl:

The things seen in CT.

I am with the ones who say police work is police work. But, sometimes just as a human, when someone is bleeding out or what have you, if I can help I will do so, as to being off duty and doing so. On duty, if I am out the most I can do is call 911 and give them the information and keep on going so the locals can look into things, as security is paramount when transporting. After all ambushes have probably been set up that way.

Naelbis
06-05-2011, 17:53
One more point: "To protect and serve" is LAPD's motto. They came up with it, and it's just theirs. Some people think that because they see it on TV and in movies that it is the motto by which all officers everywhere are bound by.
My agency's patch says To Serve and To Protect in big letters...I can pm you a pic if you want proof.:wavey:

scottydl
06-05-2011, 18:15
What really got under my skin about the medical was a younger officer refused to give basic first aid to a fight victim the other night and said "that is what EMT's are for, I am not getting blood on me". This is despite the fact that every unit has an AED and basic first aid kit and the guy couldn't see because of the gash on his forehead. Give him a stinking gauze pad and tell him to apply pressure for crying out loud.:dunno:

Sounds like a lack of supervision to me. New officers only know what they are taught or told. Someone needs to school them who matters enough to be able to bust their balls and back it up if the officer doesn't change his/her behavior.

ateamer
06-05-2011, 18:21
My agency's patch says To Serve and To Protect in big letters...I can pm you a pic if you want proof.:wavey:
And my agency doesn't have any motto, let alone one copied from some other department. So what?

Mattz
06-05-2011, 19:04
As someone who has only been doing this job for three years, I can say I enjoy going out and hunting for criminals to put in jail. I do like helping genuine people who need help, but unfortunately for the most part we deal with dumb people who want to waste our time with stupid stuff. After a while it puts you in a funk mood.

Naelbis
06-05-2011, 20:12
And my agency doesn't have any motto, let alone one copied from some other department. So what?
Just saying that if the county cares enough about the message to put it out there for everyone to see that we should darn well live up to it.

DaBigBR
06-05-2011, 22:43
One more point: "To protect and serve" is LAPD's motto. They came up with it, and it's just theirs. Some people think that because they see it on TV and in movies that it is the motto by which all officers everywhere are bound by.

My agency's patch says To Serve and To Protect in big letters...I can pm you a pic if you want proof.:wavey:

An interesting point on this: your agency saw fit, as I have seen others do, to swap the "protect" and "serve" in the motto. I have heard the rationale behind this the same everywhere: "we're a community policing agency, so we want to make sure that it says that we serve first and protect second." That's the most diseased and flawed logic I have ever heard. It's the kind of logic that in the right doses and applied to other areas of a department can get folks killed. Read the FBI cop killer study: a large percentage of victim officers saw themselves as "service oriented people". There's nothing wrong with wanting to work with the community and give back, but when it impairs the officer's ability to react appropriately to a threat or to prevent the development of a threat, somebody needs to get out of police work and get in to social work. When firearms, DT, and other high liability, use of force related training hours start getting cut so we can learn more about cultural diversity, we're moving in the wrong direction. Teach me all you want about every group of people out there. I legitimately do want the knowledge, but you'd better not sacrifice training me in how to protect myself in exchange for it.

I'm not picking on your agency specifically by any means, and certainly your admin may have had a different reason for swapping the words in the motto, but the implication that it is our first duty to tow illegaly parked cars from private property, write tickets for barking dogs, or moderate civil disputes is so backwards it's ridiculous. Job #1 for any law enforcement officer anywhere in the officer is to protect life. We can't work on quality of life issues until and unless we are adequately protecting life.

Dragoon44
06-05-2011, 22:50
From what I have seen from Admins that adopt this version of "community policing" they generally have very low officer morale. Primarily because they are the quickest to throw an officer under the bus just to appease the "community" which is usually whatever special interest group that is screeching the loudest.

Hack
06-05-2011, 23:35
From what I have seen from Admins that adopt this version of "community policing" they generally have very low officer morale. Primarily because they are the quickest to throw an officer under the bus just to appease the "community" which is usually whatever special interest group that is screeching the loudest.

This unfortunately happens at the federal level. One of the ways that the agency I work for justifies its existence is through offender programs. Don't get me wrong, I am for programs that help in the return of an offender to society at the end of their term, and to be a productive citizen. Sometimes in doing that it seems that they are being molly coddled, and I would not be surprised at there being police agencies out there who are similar in mind set.

Just as the first goal in corrections should be to keep the offender behind the fence, so should the first goal in policing be to get offenders off of the streets, if necessary straight to a dirt nap.

turretg
06-06-2011, 15:51
Lol its a cropped picture of the Angel of Death, the fullsize was too big to use as an avatar.....Perverts...here is the fullsize version.:whistling:


Azreal is the name for the Angel of death. For all you folks into that trivial stuff.

ray9898
06-06-2011, 16:22
Just saying that if the county cares enough about the message to put it out there for everyone to see that we should darn well live up to it.

You work for a politician who would have you cleaning windows for his voters if it was legal.

His goal is re-election and he will use you in whatever way he can to ensure that.

ChrisJn
06-06-2011, 17:19
The primary object of an efficient police is the prevention of crime: the next that of detection and punishment of offenders if crime is committed. To these ends all the efforts of police must be directed. The protection of life and property, the preservation of public tranquility, and the absence of crime, will alone prove whether those efforts have been successful, and whether the objects for which the police were appointed have been attained. (Sir Richard Mayne, 1829). (He was the first Commissioner of the London Metropolitan Police, formed in 1829).

ICE35
06-06-2011, 18:18
Once upon a time two guys from my unit responded to a call as they were just around the corner. I cringed when they advised they would take it.

I continued traffic related responsibilities and kept a close ear to the radio for the aftermath of these two guys answering a common "Jerry Springer call" that patrol has been accustomed to baby sitting.

"Radio have EMS in route"

You guessed it. The department has never again been requested to "assist" this trailer park.

DON'T CALL THE SHERIFF DEPUTIES!!!

MeefZah
06-06-2011, 18:33
Azreal is the name for the Angel of death. For all you folks into that trivial stuff.

Also the name of Gargamel's cat.