Mas Ayoob: Traffic Stop [Archive] - Glock Talk

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ADK_40GLKr
06-05-2011, 17:30
This may already have been posted here, but I just found it over on GATE Self Defense Forum. Too good not to share 50 times!

http://imomags.com/gunsandammo/2011/05/27/tips-when-stopped-by-police/

NMG26
06-05-2011, 17:47
Goood enough for me.

He really did not get into states that do not require to inform, or did I miss it?

Shinesintx
06-05-2011, 17:55
Goood enough for me.

He really did not get into states that do not require to inform, or did I miss it?

Yes you missed it...it was one of the first things they talked about. I still disagree about Texas having to show though.

kensteele
06-05-2011, 19:23
Good video!

Tiro Fijo
06-05-2011, 20:02
I thought it was:


"Back off, Barney!! I'm packin'!!!"

:rofl::supergrin:

OD Green Glock 19
06-05-2011, 20:33
Yes you missed it...it was one of the first things they talked about. I still disagree about Texas having to show though.
What's to disagree with? Have you read the statutes? It's illegal. There just isn't any penalty for disobeying that particular law. That's not to say that the officer who stops you won't decide against letting you off with a warning for a taillight out or some minor infraction should you decide not to show a little courtesy and inform him/her that you're carrying a firearm.

ranburr1
06-05-2011, 23:02
What's to disagree with? Have you read the statutes? It's illegal. There just isn't any penalty for disobeying that particular law. That's not to say that the officer who stops you won't decide against letting you off with a warning for a taillight out or some minor infraction should you decide not to show a little courtesy and inform him/her that you're carrying a firearm.

I don't really have an issue with having to notify an officer that I am a CHL holder and that I am carrying. It has actually gotten me out of a number of tickets. But, I do find it strange that if I were carrying under the travel law without a CHL, there is no requirement to inform the police that you are armed.

Shinesintx
06-05-2011, 23:36
I don't really have an issue with having to notify an officer that I am a CHL holder and that I am carrying. It has actually gotten me out of a number of tickets. But, I do find it strange that if I were carrying under the travel law without a CHL, there is no requirement to inform the police that you are armed.

Ta Da! I have an out of state permit. Why should I have to show when before I had the CHL it was legal to carry in my vehicle...and not have to declare it?

A6Gator
06-06-2011, 08:33
Wait a minute...apply common sense? The lawyers are going to have a field day w/that one!

RussP
06-06-2011, 08:50
I don't really have an issue with having to notify an officer that I am a CHL holder and that I am carrying. It has actually gotten me out of a number of tickets. But, I do find it strange that if I were carrying under the travel law without a CHL, there is no requirement to inform the police that you are armed.I'm always interested when people make the statement in bold, as to how you know the CHL was the reason you got out of the tickets.

Rinspeed
06-06-2011, 08:54
I'm always interested when people make the statement in bold, as to how you know the CHL was the reason you got out of the tickets.




I've wondered the same thing Russ. :dunno:

Free Radical
06-06-2011, 09:50
I'm always interested when people make the statement in bold, as to how you know the CHL was the reason you got out of the tickets.

This has been discussed quite a bit. The notion that having a concealed carry permit is like being a certified good guy. Of course that's rubbish, but it probably doesn't hurt. Since I've had my CCP I have been stopped while driving three times. No tickets. Coincidence? Probably, although on one of those occasions I spent about 15 minutes talking guns with the officer.

As for how to conduct yourself when pulled over I would only add one thing to the posted video. I keep both hands on the wheel, in clear sight until asked for my license, registration and proof of insurance. I offer up my carry permit at that time as well, but they usually already know. In Utah it comes up when they run your plates that you have the carry permit.

blackjack
06-06-2011, 10:25
I'm always interested when people make the statement in bold, as to how you know the CHL was the reason you got out of the tickets.

Personally, it was because the officer very specifically said so in no uncertain terms. OK is a "must notify" state if armed during a traffic/official contact and I followed the protocol. When he returned from running my info, he confirmed I was armed and told me he was going to let me go on the speeding ticket I had coming because he wanted to encourage more licensees to actually carry the firearm. He further commented that, too often, he found licensees to be unarmed and thought that was silly. I heartily agreed with his logic and went on about my day.

lethal tupperwa
06-06-2011, 12:06
The "officer " was not wearing his hat.

ADK_40GLKr
06-06-2011, 12:32
Goood enough for me.

He really did not get into states that do not require to inform, or did I miss it?

AZ, TX, MI were mentioned, but I think as examples of "must notify" states. They aren't the ONLY ones, are they?

I think the purpose of the video was to give us an idea how to proceed if we're in a "must notify" state, we simply don't want the officer to be suprised by our concealed weapon, OR we're not sure about the laws of the state we're passing through. (as long as it's NOT NY, NJ, IL or MD).

I've never had a policeman ask me to get out of a car, but if for any reason, one ever did, I'd want him to know about my gun beforehand, regardless of a "must notify" law.

It makes sense, though, we should always be aware of the gun laws in our own state, and any we might plan to pass through or visit, especially regarding how and where to carry, possess, or lock in the trunk or out-of-reach lockbox, and whether loaded.

The following section of handgunlaw.us gives pretty specific information about carrying, transporting, and notifying in each state.
http://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/USRVCarCarry.pdf This would be a good URL to bookmark if you ever plan to leave your state with your gun.

uhlawpup
06-06-2011, 12:38
I don't really have an issue with having to notify an officer that I am a CHL holder and that I am carrying. It has actually gotten me out of a number of tickets. But, I do find it strange that if I were carrying under the travel law without a CHL, there is no requirement to inform the police that you are armed.

That is not the only "strange" thing about Texas laws. You'll have to ask your legislator why it's the way it is.

You should see the laws I have to deal with on a daily basis...

xtreme99
06-06-2011, 20:14
Since when is Arizona a "must inform" state? Am I missing something here?

NMG26
06-06-2011, 21:28
AZ, TX, MI were mentioned, but I think as examples of "must notify" states. They aren't the ONLY ones, are they?

I think the purpose of the video was to give us an idea how to proceed if we're in a "must notify" state, we simply don't want the officer to be suprised by our concealed weapon, OR we're not sure about the laws of the state we're passing through. (as long as it's NOT NY, NJ, IL or MD).

I've never had a policeman ask me to get out of a car, but if for any reason, one ever did, I'd want him to know about my gun beforehand, regardless of a "must notify" law.

It makes sense, though, we should always be aware of the gun laws in our own state, and any we might plan to pass through or visit, especially regarding how and where to carry, possess, or lock in the trunk or out-of-reach lockbox, and whether loaded.

The following section of handgunlaw.us gives pretty specific information about carrying, transporting, and notifying in each state.
http://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/USRVCarCarry.pdf This would be a good URL to bookmark if you ever plan to leave your state with your gun.

Good points all.........thanks

Angry Fist
06-06-2011, 21:46
Missouri is not a Must Notify, but both times I've been stopped, just a warning. Seems like I always got a ticket before getting a CCW. The first time, the young 20's deputy actually thanked me twice for informing him. I thanked him for not proning me out in front of my friends. Nice guy. :patriot:

We all just wanna get home safe.

JuneyBooney
06-06-2011, 21:51
I thought it was:


"Back off, Barney!! I'm packin'!!!"

:rofl::supergrin:

I like that one. :rofl:

smokeross
06-06-2011, 23:03
In Alaska you don't need a permit, but they are available and some people like them because of the handshake with other states. If you have a permit you MUST notify. If you don't and are packing, who knows? If you're carrying open, again who knows. I think it really sucks that there is so much vagueness in all this.

ranburr1
06-06-2011, 23:11
I'm always interested when people make the statement in bold, as to how you know the CHL was the reason you got out of the tickets.

All I can say is that their attitudes and facial expressions visibly changed when they saw the CHL. Things that I used to get tickets for, I typically get warnings on the rare times that I get pulled over. I did have one idiot react negatively.

Misty02
06-07-2011, 05:46
Good video, thanks for sharing it, ADK_40GLKr. I still donít know why they donít teach telepathy in the academy though. :supergrin:

.

Misty02
06-07-2011, 05:53
I'm always interested when people make the statement in bold, as to how you know the CHL was the reason you got out of the tickets.

Iíve gotten out of some tickets in my past (didnít carry back then); I deserved them but didnít get them. I think it was a matter of being polite, admitting I did wrong, I apologized and the officer that for some reason decided not to ticket me. If I had a CCW at the time I might have thought that was reason too.

.

Bruce M
06-07-2011, 06:09
Iíve gotten out of some tickets in my past ... I think it was a matter of being polite, admitting I did wrong, I apologized and the officer ...
.


In my limited experience polite, honest,etc has alot more to do with not being cited than does the presence of a permit/license.

ricklee4570
06-07-2011, 06:42
A friend of mine that has been a state trooper for over 20 years told me that he knows before he ever talks to the driver whether he is writing a ticket or not.

He said that way there was no bias involved.

fuzzy03cls
06-07-2011, 07:28
FL is no inform. So if I'm not required I will not. I keep my mouth shut unless asked direct questions.
I do not expect to get off if I'm stopped. I do not think a CCW will give me a 1 up.

Gunnut 45/454
06-07-2011, 10:42
As I've always said it's situational awareness! If you know why you've been stopped (Speed, etc) play by ear if you don't have to inform! If you have no clue why you've been stopped , it's at night even though I don't have to inform I would! The one caviot I have with the video -we all know some officer have you get out of the vehicle just so they can remove your firearm from you! Which I don't agree with- unlike what was stated in the video!:whistling:

OD Green Glock 19
06-07-2011, 18:03
I don't really have an issue with having to notify an officer that I am a CHL holder and that I am carrying. It has actually gotten me out of a number of tickets. But, I do find it strange that if I were carrying under the travel law without a CHL, there is no requirement to inform the police that you are armed.
That is probably due to the fact that the gun would have to be unloaded and in a case for the federal travel law to apply. In that case, for all intents and purposes you aren't really armed. You're merely transporting an unloaded firearm. It doesn't become an officer safety issue unless you are actually carrying a loaded firearm concealed about your person or within your vehicle.

Bashful
06-07-2011, 22:27
That is probably due to the fact that the gun would have to be unloaded and in a case for the federal travel law to apply. In that case, for all intents and purposes you aren't really armed. You're merely transporting an unloaded firearm. It doesn't become an officer safety issue unless you are actually carrying a loaded firearm concealed about your person or within your vehicle.

In Texas.. we have the Motorist Protection Act (MPA), which allows a loaded handgun to be concealed in the vehicle without a permit. Under MPA, motorists are not required to inform law enforcement that they have a firearm in the vehicle. CHL holders *must* inform, but there is no penalty for failing to do so.

ADK_40GLKr
06-08-2011, 11:30
Good video, thanks for sharing it, ADK_40GLKr. I still donít know why they donít teach telepathy in the academy though. :supergrin:

.

Just happened to read GATE: Self Defense at the right time.

kensteele
06-08-2011, 15:42
In Texas.. we have the Motorist Protection Act (MPA), which allows a loaded handgun to be concealed in the vehicle without a permit. Under MPA, motorists are not required to inform law enforcement that they have a firearm in the vehicle. CHL holders *must* inform, but there is no penalty for failing to do so.

Same thing in a lot of state including Missouri. You can carry concealed a loaded firearm in your vehicle without a permit as long as you are eligible; basically non-felon over 18. No requirement to declare for those folks.

In addition, Missouri is not a "must-tell" state so all are created somewhat equally. There is no extra burden on permit holders, no extra gotchas.

Angry Fist
06-08-2011, 20:44
Same thing in a lot of state including Missouri. You can carry concealed a loaded firearm in your vehicle without a permit as long as you are eligible; basically non-felon over 18. No requirement to declare for those folks.

In addition, Missouri is not a "must-tell" state so all are created somewhat equally. There is no extra burden on permit holders, no extra gotchas.
Not to mention more states accept MO's permit than any other. 36 now, I believe since Iowa was added.

Kriterian
06-09-2011, 06:45
That was a really good video, very informative. The thing that got me was Ayoob's voice though, because that was my first time hearing him speak. I've got all his books and read the forum, but haven't listened to the podcast or seen him in person before. I was way off on what his voice would sound like, but I should have guessed it was a deep "cop" voice, haha.

He should do a whole common sense series, I think he could actually teach it to some people.

solomansousana
06-09-2011, 12:39
Goood enough for me.

He really did not get into states that do not require to inform, or did I miss it?

The grand Commonwealth of Virginia is one of those states where CCW holders are not required to inform officers UNLESS asked by the officer. That said, during a traffic stop, it has always been my thinking to keep things safe for all of us, it's simply safer and smarter to inform the officer I'm licensed and carrying. This way, there are NO surprises. Just like in the video, it's NOT the experienced officer I fear, it's the newbie's.

JBL13
06-09-2011, 15:42
In the decade I've had my permit, I've had "professional" interactions with law enforcement officers on several occasions, though not during any traffic stops, since I'm the perfect driver :) . Anyway, right out of the gate, I say, IN THIS ORDER, "I have a concealed carry permit, and I'm packing." Works like a charm.

tuf8seconds
06-09-2011, 16:40
Good post....That cant be shown enough...I would slowly place both of my hands outside my window as soon as I handed the officer my driving license and CWP....

Angry Fist
06-09-2011, 19:08
In the decade I've had my permit, I've had "professional" interactions with law enforcement officers on several occasions, though not during any traffic stops, since I'm the perfect driver :) . Anyway, right out of the gate, I say, IN THIS ORDER, "I have a concealed carry permit, and I'm packing." Works like a charm.
I hand him my CCW on top of my DL, and then tell him. Yup... works like a charm. :supergrin:

JBL13
06-09-2011, 21:27
I hand him my CCW on top of my DL, and then tell him. Yup... works like a charm. :supergrin:

I don't reach for anything until I've told the officer what I said above, and he instructs me further. :)

hunter won
06-10-2011, 08:02
I never yanked out a licensed driver to remove and unload the firearm during any traffic stops.I know officer safety is why Mas did that.Some cops do have you step out and assume the position.In states that don't require you,I wouldn't offer that information to the officer because it may jam you up.If you do carry, properly conceal the weapon and keep out of sight any ammo or gun related items.In areas that are liberal anti-gun like NY,pistol license holders are restricted to carry.Many pistol license holders get the license revolked because they get stopped and are carrying out of restrictions.Many police officers are not gun friendly in the NY area and are going to jam you up.I have had guys put the pistol license on top of the drivers license like it was a PBA card.If you have the weapon with you advise the officer if he's going to get you out of the vehicle.Mas was correct keep the seat belt on.

kensteele
06-10-2011, 18:24
I never yanked out a licensed driver to remove and unload the firearm during any traffic stops.I know officer safety is why Mas did that.Some cops do have you step out and assume the position.In states that don't require you,I wouldn't offer that information to the officer because it may jam you up.If you do carry, properly conceal the weapon and keep out of sight any ammo or gun related items.In areas that are liberal anti-gun like NY,pistol license holders are restricted to carry.Many pistol license holders get the license revolked because they get stopped and are carrying out of restrictions.Many police officers are not gun friendly in the NY area and are going to jam you up.I have had guys put the pistol license on top of the drivers license like it was a PBA card.If you have the weapon with you advise the officer if he's going to get you out of the vehicle.Mas was correct keep the seat belt on.

Imagine that. You're kidding, right? :)

Walk Soft
06-10-2011, 18:35
I think my CCDW has gotten me out of a few tickets.The only reason I have is because I had NEVER been given a break before I got it.Maybe it's coincidence but I don't know.

HarleyGuy
06-10-2011, 22:21
In Michigan we are required to promptly notify a police officer that we have a CPL and are armed during a traffic stop.
(I even recommend notification of the CPL even if a gun is not being carried).
This is also true if you have a CPL and you are passenger in a stopped vehicle.

This is a Michigan state law, which means that out-of-state concealed license holders are also required to notify the officer that they have a CPL and that they are carrying a concealed firearm (which includes the center console, glove box or anywhere inside of the car where the driver has immediate access to).

When I travel out-of-state I do my best to adhere to their laws and I will notify any police office that "stops" me that I have a CPL and that I am, or am not carrying a concealed firearm.

New York Hunter
06-11-2011, 00:47
Here in New Yorkistan we don't have to tell LEO we're carrying unless they ask us if we have any weapons. I always tell them very politely ASAP that I have a carry permit and that I do in fact have a firearm on me. I tell them where the firearm is, which is usually on my right hip and that my drivers license and pistol permit are in my wallet on the same side as the firearm in my rear pocket. I keep both hands on the steering wheel, dome light on, window down and engine off. Then I wait for them to tell me what they want me to do next.

Now I must say, I haven't been pulled over to many times. I don't usually drive more then 5 MPH over the posted speed limit. I don't run traffic lights or signs. Even when I'm in the Camaro. I just tool around taking it easy!

NYH1!

PghJim
06-13-2011, 02:58
That was a really good video, very informative.


Please remember that it does not always go that smooth. As I have posted elsewhere, in PA you do not have to tell you are carrying unless asked. A friend got pulled over for speeding by a local LEO and my friend was very polite. He handed over his permit, and was told to keep his hands on the steering wheel and the LEO drew his weapon and sat and waited for two other patrol cars to arrive (back up). They had him get out of the car, disarmed him, had him lean against the car while they searched him and then searched the car. After about 45 minutes he was give his unloaded gun back and a traffick ticket and allowed to go on his way.

I never tell, but have the permit ready should I be asked. If you are ever in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania you will get a very warm welcome when you show your permit. The LEO's were told to harrass permit holders in some cases.

steveksux
06-13-2011, 20:34
Mas did a nice job on that video, but I still think Chris Rock has the definitive video of how to handle a traffic stop... :rofl:

Randy

ICARRY2
06-13-2011, 21:05
Since when is Arizona a "must inform" state? Am I missing something here?

AZ has never been a must inform state. Last year though a new law took effect that requires a person with a gun in the car (ccw or not) must answer truthfully if a leo asks if there is a gun in the car.

I think this was a good alternative to mandatory and immediate notification of a gun to a leo.

http://www.azleg.gov/FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/ars/13/03102.htm&Title=13&DocType=ARS

13-3102. Misconduct involving weapons; defenses; classification; definitions

A. A person commits misconduct involving weapons by knowingly:

1. Carrying a deadly weapon except a pocket knife concealed on his person or within his immediate control in or on a means of transportation:

(b) When contacted by a law enforcement officer and failing to accurately answer the officer if the officer asks whether the person is carrying a concealed deadly weapon;

L. For the purposes of this section:

1. "Contacted by a law enforcement officer" means a lawful traffic or criminal investigation, arrest or detention or an investigatory stop by a law enforcement officer that is based on reasonable suspicion that an offense has been or is about to be committed.

Misconduct involving weapons under subsection A, paragraph 1, subdivision (b) of this section is a class 1 misdemeanor.

deadcalm4u
06-13-2011, 22:02
While all these "must tell" "don't have to tell" laws are fine and dandy, You are damn right I am telling any officer that I am carrying. More respect than anything else, and also might let the officer know that I am not a "bad guy."

RussP
06-14-2011, 05:36
While all these "must tell" "don't have to tell" laws are fine and dandy, You are damn right I am telling any officer that I am carrying. More respect than anything else, and also might let the officer know that I am not a "bad guy."This is the crux of the matter, "telling". isn't that you are carrying, It is that you are disclosing, telling that fact.

It isn't the little piece of paper or the card issued by the state showing that one day you were run through NICS. It's about telling, disclosing that you do have a firearm. Bad guys with bad intentions don't usually tell they are carrying.

Now, before some of you get your panties in a wad, no, no, no, I am not saying just because you do not inform you're automatically a bad guy.

When there is a choice, your decision to inform or not is a very personal one. What is good and right for you may be dead wrong for someone else.

kensteele
06-14-2011, 17:36
I can understand LEO feeling that a person who doesn't inform when the law says you must, there is probably something wrong here.

LEO in states where they understand the citizen is not required to inform shouldn't expected it and shouldn't be hurt when it isn't brought up. If you want to know, just ask. Then, after about 2 seconds, you'll feel the same way (whatever way that is) as if I told you without being asked. That's the way two adults respect each other on the side of the road. My record is 50/50 on about 6 stops.

BTW, do ex-felons, parolees, or people on probation have to tell the police they are a criminal or an ex-criminal (and 1,000 times likely to do some damage) when they are contacted on a traffic stop? I won't be legally held to a higher standard than the common criminal. I might inform, but I won't be labeled a criminal if I choose not to, fail to, or somehow wind up in a freak situation out of my control. No new penalties for the permit holder. "You can carry but you're going to be arrested if you don't do a) b) and c)." That's my fundamental problem with the issue.

Liquid
06-16-2011, 17:47
very helpful. i am in fl and i dont think i have to say anything. however i always said the g word. luckily it always ended with the go and sin no more. once i was stopped right after leaving the range. i am sure i had something loaded in my pocket or iwb, worse was i had a backpack on the passenger seat next to me with a few unloaded guns in it. it was great i didnt get a ticket and was sent on my way. note at a time i had an accord with rims and was in my early 20's.

Misty02
06-18-2011, 09:20
very helpful. i am in fl and i dont think i have to say anything. however i always said the g word. luckily it always ended with the go and sin no more. once i was stopped right after leaving the range. i am sure i had something loaded in my pocket or iwb, worse was i had a backpack on the passenger seat next to me with a few unloaded guns in it. it was great i didnt get a ticket and was sent on my way. note at a time i had an accord with rims and was in my early 20's.

We are not required by law to inform. Whether you do or you donít, for us, is a personal decision. :)

.

COLDSTEEL165
06-18-2011, 20:20
Massad Ayoob is the Man.

Reb 56
06-26-2011, 21:48
.I just posted on Cop Talk about a traffic stop I had, when the Offficer asked For my Drivers License,and proof of Insurance I also gave him my CCW permit. He looked at all three and gave them back to me never mentioned the CCW permit. He gave me a warning and let me go. This was in Missouri.
The Police who reponded to my post said they didn't consider it a big deal and not that concerned about lawfull carry.

McMillan
06-27-2011, 23:03
Yes you missed it...it was one of the first things they talked about. I still disagree about Texas having to show though.

Talked to a police officer last Friday about this exact thing outside of McBrides in Austin.
From his mouth he said it is not a legal obligation but the officers prefer that you let them know that you are carrying out of respect.