Kidnapping [Archive] - Glock Talk

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emt1581
06-07-2011, 20:18
I just finished watching the movie Taken. IMO it's one of the most intense movies I've ever seen...far fetched at MANY points...but INTENSE!!

However, it focused on one of my greatest fears, no matter how low the probability of happening, and that is kidnapping. This movie went deeper than that.

Now for 18+ years my job is to protect/help my son and future kids. Aside from the basics, I'm wondering what can be done to protect against such a thing.

I'm not thinking international kidnappers are an issue and I don't have any unstable/psycho baby-momma's to worry about.

Still, I'm curious what's out there in the way of survival and, more importantly, preparedness when it comes to kidnapping?

Thanks!

-Emt1581

Big Bird
06-07-2011, 20:53
Hire a private security detail

Unistat
06-07-2011, 21:30
I'm not thinking international kidnappers are an issue and I don't have any unstable/psycho baby-momma's to worry about.

Well that covers about 90% of kidnappings. Seriously in the U.S. the overwhelming majority of kidnappings are by family members.

The other major source of kidnapping is one has to worry about is kidnapping for ransom which is prevelent in Mexico and South America, but almost unheard of un the U.S. any more. The F.B.I. really did do a very good job of making it un-profitable, one of their biggest successes in my opinion.

Other than that, Taken style kidnappings do happen, especially in Eastern Europe, but if you never go there you have zero risk.

lawman800
06-08-2011, 02:15
Yep. Stay away from any country where liberals make it a criminals' paradise. That include pretty much all of Europe, some African colonies, and kit ruins it for most of us.

cyrsequipment
06-08-2011, 05:11
Kidnappings are on the rise along the southwest border, due to mexican drug trafficking organizations. They mainly kidnap other people in their organizations, but they have been known to use the tactic on others to get money or silence witnesses.

It is still VERY unlikely, but it is happening and getting worse.

emt1581
06-08-2011, 05:56
What most are saying makes sense. And as I said, the probability of this scenario is extremely slim...then again so is a SD shoot. However, I'm curious more about the technology involved in prevention.

Not to go too far off the deep end with this but I know for under $100 I can implant an ID tag the size of a grain of rice into my GSD. I didn't do it and it wouldn't help with tracking but that would be paramount during a kidnapping...finding the kid.

I know they were making children's sneakers with GPS trackers in them. Then again, sneakers can be removed...

Thanks!

-Emt1581

quake
06-08-2011, 06:33
Put on weight:
http://rlv.zcache.com/fat_people_are_harder_to_kidnap_tshirt-p235316272337693851lezo_400.jpg

cyrsequipment
06-08-2011, 06:58
Not to go too far off the deep end with this...
-Emt1581

??? :dunno:
Who are you and what did you do with EMT???

Bilbo Bagins
06-08-2011, 08:10
Put on weight:
http://rlv.zcache.com/fat_people_are_harder_to_kidnap_tshirt-p235316272337693851lezo_400.jpg

:rofl:

Seriously though, the best thing you can do right now is getting your kids to understand the whole "Don't Talk to Strangers" thing. Get them in a Karate school that focuses on teaching young kids how to "Break Free" from an adult trying to grab them.

While kidnapping in the US is rare for the common persons, Abductions, Rapes and Murders of both Male and Female kids, and teen girls are common.

emt1581
06-08-2011, 18:01
??? :dunno:
Who are you and what did you do with EMT???

:rofl:

-Emt1581

wtf0ver
06-08-2011, 18:06
open carry

emt1581
06-08-2011, 18:09
:rofl:

Seriously though, the best thing you can do right now is getting your kids to understand the whole "Don't Talk to Strangers" thing. Get them in a Karate school that focuses on teaching young kids how to "Break Free" from an adult trying to grab them.

While kidnapping in the US is rare for the common persons, Abductions, Rapes and Murders of both Male and Female kids, and teen girls are common.

I can see the need to emphasize street smarts, personal defense ,etc. However, I'm more concerned with being able to know their whereabouts at all times. This is not to pry into their social life although I'm sure it'll have it's place there to. It's more about the "just in cases" in life. Just in case they get lost, into a car accident, kidnapped, need to be picked up, etc.

I'm all for preparing kids but lets face it, a seriously pissed off momma and pappa bear will be MUCH more devastating than a cub any day of the week and twice on Sunday. I know we'd do anything for this and any future child.

Again, the movie Taken (ON FX TONIGHT AT 8 ET BTW) is a little far fetched because of the specifics...specific location where such things happen, specific guy with VERY specific skills, specific abilities to smell traps and survive ridiculously outnumbered situations...usually unarmed....so unrealistic IMO. I, and I'm guessin 99.999% of you all will NOT have those skills or luck....but being able to know the child and target's whereabouts would be one HELL of an advantage!!

Thanks for the replies.

-Emt1581

saddlebum
06-08-2011, 19:45
verichip

emt1581
06-08-2011, 19:53
verichip

That looks like it is good for Identification...NOT location...no?

Thanks

-Emt1581

jdavionic
06-08-2011, 20:05
I thought there was a slow-growing trend in some countries for chip implants. I don't know much about them, but that seems like an option.

emt1581
06-08-2011, 20:13
I thought there was a slow-growing trend in some countries for chip implants. I don't know much about them, but that seems like an option.

It's quite popular with pets. However, again, it's more about identification than actual location.

-Emt1581

jdavionic
06-08-2011, 20:15
It's quite popular with pets. However, again, it's more about identification than actual location.

-Emt1581

No, I read about ones for tracking / finding people. It's apparently becoming popular in Mexico for families that can afford them.

RED64CJ5
06-08-2011, 20:20
Still, I'm curious what's out there in the way of survival and, more importantly, preparedness when it comes to kidnapping?


The #1 best return on investment on kidnap-proofing is to train on awareness. It can be done at a very early age. My youngest is almost 3 and she knows when something/someone is wrong/not-right. Until that awareness lesson is learned, you or your spouse need to always be on guard.

I also agree w/Big Bird.

emt1581
06-08-2011, 20:21
No, I read about ones for tracking / finding people. It's apparently becoming popular in Mexico for families that can afford them.

Oh ok...they probably have a monthly fee as well right? IMO it's worth it.

Hell I'd give everything I own and then some to get my kid back if it came to that. I'd go well into debt to bring the ones responsible to their knees before being tortured for a few years.:steamed:

-Emt1581

jdavionic
06-08-2011, 20:25
Oh ok...they probably have a monthly fee as well right? IMO it's worth it.

Hell I'd give everything I own and then some to get my kid back if it came to that. I'd go well into debt to bring the ones responsible to their knees before being tortured for a few years.:steamed:

-Emt1581

I don't know much about them...but I am interested. My oldest girl wants to go to France for Honors French. And yes, I've seen that movie twice. My first plan is to be a chaperon.

emt1581
06-08-2011, 20:35
I don't know much about them...but I am interested. My oldest girl wants to go to France for Honors French. And yes, I've seen that movie twice. My first plan is to be a chaperon.

Having traveled parts of Europe and elsewhere, PRIOR to waking up to the real dangers out there, my first thought would be to say "you're not going". Then again you could get technology on your side, maps/layouts, and a good knowledge of the legalities of SD/weaponry along your route or area where you'll be staying. Just my .02.

Please share whatever you learn with us in the way of kidnap prevention tech.

Thanks

-Emt1581

lawman800
06-09-2011, 00:40
I know Taken is a movie but if it were to happen, I would go that far or die trying. I will take down as many Markos from Trabakya as I can while I am at it.

maxxmojo
06-09-2011, 04:05
The #1 best return on investment on kidnap-proofing is to train on awareness. It can be done at a very early age. My youngest is almost 3 and she knows when something/someone is wrong/not-right. Until that awareness lesson is learned, you or your spouse need to always be on guard.

I also agree w/Big Bird.

Awareness can go a long way. If you can teach your kids to avoid putting themselves in situations they can't get out of (always have an escape route) they'll be less prone than your average Joe. Some kind of defensive skills (karate or what have you) would help alot too. They wouldn't have to get all Bruce Lee on the guy(s), they just have to be able to get away during the "Snatch and Grab" phase.

jdavionic
06-09-2011, 04:31
I know Taken is a movie but if it were to happen, I would go that far or die trying. I will take down as many Markos from Trabakya as I can while I am at it.

I think most fathers would go medieval. The light switch scene would be far too painless in my book.

emt1581
06-09-2011, 05:58
I know Taken is a movie but if it were to happen, I would go that far or die trying. I will take down as many Markos from Trabakya as I can while I am at it.

How would you even learn the info that he did though? It went from one far fetched "success" to the next...

I have no doubt most parents would "do anything" for their kids, and some of us here would get REAL colorful IF we got our hands on the enemy...but without the ability to locate them you have nothing.

-Emt1581

emt1581
06-09-2011, 06:03
Awareness can go a long way. If you can teach your kids to avoid putting themselves in situations they can't get out of (always have an escape route) they'll be less prone than your average Joe. Some kind of defensive skills (karate or what have you) would help alot too. They wouldn't have to get all Bruce Lee on the guy(s), they just have to be able to get away during the "Snatch and Grab" phase.

"getting away" would have been damn near impossible when 4-6 men come for you and you're unarmed, and you're a kid, and you have little clue where you even are.

I think prevention means not getting to that "phase" but what do you do...not talk to ANYONE and walk around as menacing/psycho looking at possible??

Again, this is why Mommy and Daddy (or at least one of them) need the ability to find the kid and, if need be, destroy the enemy to get the kid back.

-Emt1581

emt1581
06-09-2011, 06:09
http://www.wired.com/techbiz/media/news/2002/01/50004

That is interesting but I do not like the idea of having to wear an external electrical device. They go dead, they can be taken off/away, etc...

-Emt1581

Bilbo Bagins
06-09-2011, 07:38
http://www.wired.com/techbiz/media/news/2002/01/50004

That is interesting but I do not like the idea of having to wear an external electrical device. They go dead, they can be taken off/away, etc...

-Emt1581

There are products out there that have GPS tracking for kids that are imbedded in sneakers or wristbands, but they are kind of obvious. Once your kids are old enough to have a cell phone and a car, they will be easier to track, but again they are items that they can be seperated from. The Tech is still not there yet. I want something the size of a penny.

lawman800
06-09-2011, 09:28
How would you even learn the info that he did though? It went from one far fetched "success" to the next...

I have no doubt most parents would "do anything" for their kids, and some of us here would get REAL colorful IF we got our hands on the enemy...but without the ability to locate them you have nothing.

-Emt1581

I would call my friends at the State Department, find out where the traffickers are from, book a private flight on my ex's husband's jet, talk to my buddies in the French Gendarmes, hire an Albanian teacher to translate for me and give me a dictionary so I can ask for sugar, and then tear up the whole city of Paris like it was 1939!

quake
06-09-2011, 10:02
I think most fathers would go medieval. The light switch scene would be far too painless in my book.

+1. I'm thinking lineman's pliers & a cheese grater.

My wife is a stereotypical "Ma Walton" type, but when watching Taken, she several times murmered "good" when bad things happened to bad people. :supergrin:

emt1581
06-09-2011, 17:28
There are products out there that have GPS tracking for kids that are imbedded in sneakers or wristbands, but they are kind of obvious. Once your kids are old enough to have a cell phone and a car, they will be easier to track, but again they are items that they can be seperated from. The Tech is still not there yet. I want something the size of a penny.

The problem with something implanted that has GPS is that it needs a battery AFAIK. That means unless you have a charging port or something, the unit would go dead inside of a short time period. Plus I'm comfortable with something the size of a tylenol or grain of rice but a penny is a little too big IMHO.

I wanted to find such an item NOW not when he/they are older...it requires their consent or cooperation in the future...now it's just another baby shot.

-Emt1581

collim1
06-10-2011, 09:41
I tell my wife never to go anywhere with anyone holding a gun on you. 90% of women that are abducted are sexually assaulted and then killed.

I would rather her skip the sexually assaulted part. If you force them to kill you on the spot they may pass, and leave you be.

cyrsequipment
06-10-2011, 09:46
I tell my wife never to go anywhere with anyone holding a gun on you. 90% of women that are abducted are sexually assaulted and then killed.

I would rather her skip the sexually assaulted part. If you force them to kill you on the spot they may pass, and leave you be.

Um, no. Most women are sexually assaulted an then released. I'd rather not have them killed, rape is a horribe thing but a woman (or man for that matter) can learn to cope with it.

Having said that, I hope to God that my wife fights like an animal if someone ever grabs her. So does she.

lawman800
06-10-2011, 10:38
That was something I thought about that you fight to the death rather than be taken. If you put up enough of a struggle, the ******* might just quit rather than deal with it similar to how thieves pick easy targets.

Even with a gun on you, break away and run. Bad guys are not good shots and not all of them will take the next step and fire a shot and elevate the crime rather than just leave.

Bilbo Bagins
06-10-2011, 12:17
Um, no. Most women are sexually assaulted an then released. I'd rather not have them killed, rape is a horribe thing but a woman (or man for that matter) can learn to cope with it.

Having said that, I hope to God that my wife fights like an animal if someone ever grabs her. So does she.

Um no again, most criminals today rather kill the witness/victim.

Date rapes and home break ins are one thing. Rape by abduction tack on a kidnapping charge. Kidnapping = Life in Prison. Life in prision usually means abduction victims usually don't come home. I told my wife and kids the same thing as Lawman800. NEVER, EVER get in the car.

cyrsequipment
06-10-2011, 12:26
Um no again, most criminals today rather kill the witness/victim.

Date rapes and home break ins are one thing. Rape by abduction tack on a kidnapping charge. Kidnapping = Life in Prison. Life in prision usually means abduction victims usually don't come home. I told my wife and kid the same thing. NEVER get in the car.

No, that is not the case (except maybe on TV). Most abduction / forcible rapists rely on the fact that their crimes often go unreported, or they get reported later, which ruins most chances of getting caught. Most of the time they do NOT kill their victims because that ensures an indepth investigation (either missing person, or homicide).

Look at any state department of correction, you will see many forcible rapists doing time. Now, if a rapist is released and does it again, then he is more likely to kill the victim, but even then it is not guaranteed.

I'm not saying that it never happens (obviously), but it is not a foregone conclusion that a kidnapped person is killed, it isn't even the most likely conclusion.

UneasyRider
06-10-2011, 12:47
You are looking at a growth industry in a SHTF. People on this board are always looking to start their own business after it starts, well this could be your chance. :shocked:

Read "Taken".


Taken by Edward Bloor

Charity wakes up groggy, tired, and confused. The last memory she had was being taken to a hospital. Her face still felt flush with a fever, and she was weak and tired. Charity soon realized she is not at a hospital, and these men were not doctors.

Charity’s greatest fear has become a reality – she’s been kidnapped.

In 2036, the children of the wealthy are frequent targets for kidnappers. Even with the top notch security in her Highlands community, the constant supervision surrounding her and monitoring her every movement, the guards and security systems meant to protect her, Charity has still become a target. She’s just a means to an end - a ticket being used by kidnappers to cash in ransom money.

Charity hopes and prays her father can be reached, and he is willing to follow the kidnapper’s demands and instructions. If her father acts quickly, Charity will not be harmed. Despite how hard her father tries to save her, the plan fails.

When one of the kidnapper’s identity is revealed, Charity feels shocked and betrayed. She knows there are no guarantees, and she must now be willing to act in order to save herself– be prepared to fight and to flee. What Charity does not realize is that being kidnapped will actually save her in the end.

Losing the life she has now and leaving others behind is the only way she will ever experience true freedom and happiness.

Exciting, and totally unexpected – right up until the satisfying conclusion.

lawman800
06-11-2011, 11:37
Actually... with the crime bulletins we have been receiving... the rapists out there are not killing the females but the descriptions we are getting are so ****ty that it's really hard to catch these guys unless we get lucky or if he keeps doing it and gets caught.

However, the common thread is that the rapists use some minimal amount of force or display a weapon and the female gets taken. There are some bulletins where the female struggles and gets away and some where the female gets taken but struggles in the car and was able to get out of the car even. The rapist never ever goes after them to recapture them.

I know this is just empirical and anecdotal but it's what I have been seeing. The women who went along willingly are the ones that get victimized while the ones who struggle can make a getaway, even if they are slightly injured in the ordeal.

jdavionic
06-11-2011, 12:09
Actually... with the crime bulletins we have been receiving... the rapists out there are not killing the females but the descriptions we are getting are so ****ty that it's really hard to catch these guys unless we get lucky or if he keeps doing it and gets caught.

However, the common thread is that the rapists use some minimal amount of force or display a weapon and the female gets taken. There are some bulletins where the female struggles and gets away and some where the female gets taken but struggles in the car and was able to get out of the car even. The rapist never ever goes after them to recapture them.

I know this is just empirical and anecdotal but it's what I have been seeing. The women who went along willingly are the ones that get victimized while the ones who struggle can make a getaway, even if they are slightly injured in the ordeal.

Thanks for this post.

I've been surprised at how many serial killers out are out there preying on females (young and older). One episode in "I survived" had a woman that gave a guy a ride who she believed that she could handle herself if anything went bad because he was not a big guy. Her account of the situation (at a gas station) was that he needed a ride and just a very nice and non-aggressive demeanor individual.

He later abducted her and, unfortunately for her, she was quite wrong about her ability to "handle him". She said he went from mild mannered to evil like a switch being flipped. Turns out he was a serial killer that had already killed 4-5 other women. She just completely gave in, hoping that if she did what he asked then she'd be freed. She would have been much better off if she never gave him a ride. And she would have still been much better off if she fought immediately at the first sign of trouble.

Never heard anything about the case in the news. Makes me wonder how many others like him are out there.

lawman800
06-11-2011, 13:20
Playing it out to the logical conclusion... if you give in, then the criminal can tie you up, put you somewhere out of the way and take his time doing whatever and then kill you and hide the body.

If you run and fight and everything, if he has to get into a no holds barred knockdown drag out fight, unless he knocks you out and has to drag you around as deadweight, it's going to be way more trouble than it's worth for him.

A hysterical female crying and running and fighting anywhere there's other people will draw attention and cause most casual criminals to flee the scene.

It's the females who just kind of walk with the criminals that get me. Like at a gas station or mall or whatever, the guy pulls a knife or gun and the woman just walks with them into a car or something. Fight! SCREAM! RUN! There are people around. Draw attention, don't just go quietly.

Chuck TX
06-11-2011, 15:23
That was something I thought about that you fight to the death rather than be taken. If you put up enough of a struggle, the ******* might just quit rather than deal with it similar to how thieves pick easy targets.

Even with a gun on you, break away and run. Bad guys are not good shots and not all of them will take the next step and fire a shot and elevate the crime rather than just leave.

Exactly! I had to put that E&E philosophy to the ultimate test in my youth. It works or I'd be dead.

There's a reason nobody steals meat from a Honey Badger.

98LS-WON
06-11-2011, 21:42
Teach you child how to make weapons out of common items, and make sure they understand that they need to fight for their life if that ever happens. My girls know about pens and eyeballs for sure, and I don't think they'd have a guilty conscious if they strangled someone with a belt.

emt1581
06-11-2011, 22:23
Teach you child how to make weapons out of common items, and make sure they understand that they need to fight for their life if that ever happens. My girls know about pens and eyeballs for sure, and I don't think they'd have a guilty conscious if they strangled someone with a belt.

Teaching a child to make weapons is fairly simple.

Hell, I've been doing it since I was 5 or 6 with ZERO influence to do so. By the time I was 10 I was collecting weapons...again no one lead me in that direction, I just naturally went there.

Teaching a child about a person's weak points, pressure points, or even artery locations...again, somewhat simple.

However, even with perfect skills and knowledge, a child will struggle greatly to kill someone. Now I'll specify that the "child" I'm talking about is one from the US. As we already talked about in another thread, a child from another country that has had to kill to survive and has been raised to place very little value on human life, by their nature, will kill with ease if given the chance.

But the kid that watches Dora the Explorer and has tea parties with stuffed animals would not likely kill or even injure anyone IMHO. Try to escape and fight like hell...OH YEAH!...but attack and maim or kill a human even in defense...I just don't see it.

This is why I place a higher importance on tracking/locating vs. teaching at such a young age.

-Emt1581

lawman800
06-12-2011, 01:32
Teaching a child to make weapons is fairly simple.

Hell, I've been doing it since I was 5 or 6 with ZERO influence to do so. By the time I was 10 I was collecting weapons...again no one lead me in that direction, I just naturally went there.

Why am I not very surprised at this non-startling revelation?

AK_Stick
06-12-2011, 04:29
Teach you child how to make weapons out of common items, and make sure they understand that they need to fight for their life if that ever happens. My girls know about pens and eyeballs for sure, and I don't think they'd have a guilty conscious if they strangled someone with a belt.



You can teach them all you want, but its fairly unrealistic for a child under the age of 17, to be expected to put up much of a fight in those conditions.


Furthermore, while they might be spirited, a good punch to the face by a guy, will generally take most of the fight out of just about any female.


I also think its laughable to think your daughters are going to be in good enough shape to try and strangle a full grown adult, who's probably in moderately good shape, and more than likely, got much more fighting experience.

emt1581
06-12-2011, 08:25
You can teach them all you want, but its fairly unrealistic for a child under the age of 17, to be expected to put up much of a fight in those conditions.


Furthermore, while they might be spirited, a good punch to the face by a guy, will generally take most of the fight out of just about any female.


I also think its laughable to think your daughters are going to be in good enough shape to try and strangle a full grown adult, who's probably in moderately good shape, and more than likely, got much more fighting experience.


In all fairness he did not say if his daughters were in their 20's or just learned to walk...

-Emt1581

TangoFoxtrot
06-12-2011, 08:29
Just let kids be kids!

emt1581
06-12-2011, 08:32
Why am I not very surprised at this non-startling revelation?

:rofl:

-Emt1581

emt1581
06-12-2011, 08:34
Just let kids be kids!

Tell that to the Albanians that kidnap them, addict them to drugs, and then let them be raped for a few years before killing them!

Seriously, you don't protect a kid by ignoring a danger...in this situation at least.

-Emt1581

AK_Stick
06-12-2011, 10:11
In all fairness he did not say if his daughters were in their 20's or just learned to walk...

-Emt1581


If they were in their 20's I'd expect around here, most fathers would have given them a handgun.



Secondly, you don't live in Albania. You're again going off the deep end about something that really isn't a threat.

emt1581
06-12-2011, 10:18
Secondly, you don't live in Albania. You're again going off the deep end about something that really isn't a threat.

Really isn't or isn't?

We've gone over this. Are Albanians going to take my kid?.. I'd probably have better odds on hitting the Powerball. Is kidnapping a possibility? Absolutely, no matter how rare or slim the chances.

Just curious but what's your advice here to prevent such a thing? We've heard everything from "don't talk to strangers" to gouging out eye balls...

-Emt1581

R_W
06-12-2011, 10:29
It happens here. Malls, colleges, Walmart parking lots. I had a neighbor abducted when I was in college. Serious wake up call for my wife and I.

The perps saw the girl at a stop light and followed her home. They stopped her in the parking lot and pretended to be cops to get close enough to grab her. Fifteen feet from make and dad's front door. It was a fairly nice "safe" neighborhood--until then.

Louisville Glocker
06-12-2011, 10:31
My oldest son started karate when he was 3. He has been taking it continuously since. One of his instructors is a former Navy SEAL (and also studied Brazilian Jiu Jitsu with the Gracies). His other instructors are highly qualified also. Now, at the ripe old age of 8, he's a pretty tough kid. (he has maxed out his karate belt level, and is waiting to get older before they'll issue him a black belt). His 3 year old little brother will be starting on a similar path soon.

I don't think you want to scare the kids, but you need to educate them from an early age that there are "bad guys" out there. (children look at the world in a very black and white manner, especially when very young. Eventually the gray shades emerge). I teach them to be trusting, but not overly-trusting, and especially of strangers. It is a balancing act.

And of course knives aren't allowed in school, but my big kid would be carrying one if he could. Heck, he'd be carrying my glock if he could. (or my S12..haha). But I can be confident that he won't go along with an abductor willingly or without a good fight, including a lot of noise. And yeah, his school teaches knife defenses, and strategy of what to do (and not to do) if someone tries to get you to go with them.

Chips may have their place someday, but I'm going for old-fashioned self-defense training sprinkled with a heaping of common sense.

P.S. I have a third kiddo coming in a few weeks. Really hope it is another boy. But if it is a girl, I wouldn't mess with her if I were you...(she'll be learning the exact same self-defense and fighting techiniques as the boys, plus some extra tailored to girls)

AK_Stick
06-12-2011, 10:45
Really isn't or isn't?

We've gone over this. Are Albanians going to take my kid?.. I'd probably have better odds on hitting the Powerball. Is kidnapping a possibility? Absolutely, no matter how rare or slim the chances.

Just curious but what's your advice here to prevent such a thing? We've heard everything from "don't talk to strangers" to gouging out eye balls...

-Emt1581


I think the best advice has already been given.

But as per typical, there's no making you see reason or rational.


Let kids be kids.

lawman800
06-12-2011, 10:59
Like with everything else in life, you teach them the best you can, be it alcohol, drugs, sex, driving, education, etc. and hope they learn and make the right choices when the time comes so they can hopefully save their own lives when you are not around. That's all you can do as a parent.

emt1581
06-12-2011, 11:50
I think the best advice has already been given.


What advice are you referring to?

-Emt1581

emt1581
06-12-2011, 11:55
Like with everything else in life, you teach them the best you can, be it alcohol, drugs, sex, driving, education, etc. and hope they learn and make the right choices when the time comes so they can hopefully save their own lives when you are not around. That's all you can do as a parent.

We talked about this though...what exactly can you teach them in regard to not being a victim of kidnapping? We've seen "don't talk to strangers" all the way up to stabbing eyes with pens...

IMHO this is an issue that is BEYOND the child themselves. Rather than continuing to address it as if it was not, lets talk about what a parent can do to protect their child.

I'm coming at this from the standpoint of tracking/locating. Big Bird said to hire a private security detail. What are some other ideas yall have?

Thanks

-Emt1581

lawman800
06-12-2011, 21:45
What advice are you referring to?

-Emt1581

This one.

I would call my friends at the State Department, find out where the traffickers are from, book a private flight on my ex's husband's jet, talk to my buddies in the French Gendarmes, hire an Albanian teacher to translate for me and give me a dictionary so I can ask for sugar, and then tear up the whole city of Paris like it was 1939!

emt1581
06-12-2011, 21:57
This one.

So outlining the plot of a movie is the answer to keeping out children safe from kidnappers?

-Emt1581

lawman800
06-12-2011, 22:26
So outlining the plot of a movie is the answer to keeping out children safe from kidnappers?

-Emt1581

http://www.motifake.com/image/demotivational-poster/0909/lighten-up-anyone-touches-my-stuff-and-i-ll-kill-you-demotivational-poster-1253664846.jpg

emt1581
06-12-2011, 22:50
If I wanted jokes and a jovial solution I'd have posted this in GNG.

I'm just surprised this isn't more of a concern for people here given the nature of the forum.

Personally, I've been doing a bunch of research and it seems like implantable GPS chip technology just isn't there yet. However, I did find a bunch of personal GPS trackers. I figure a few of them sewn into a packpack, clothing/shoes, and/or toys and it should give us a good couple of hours to track them down unless they strip the kid bare as soon as nabbing him/her.

-Emt1581

lawman800
06-13-2011, 00:04
It is a serious topic but you do what you can with prevention and also evasion or escape after the fact if you couldn't prevent it. However, you are more likely to be assaulted and robbed or have your house burgled than having a kidnapping take place so you should concentrate your resources, including education and training, accordinly.

AK_Stick
06-13-2011, 00:57
There isn't more concern, because its not a likely threat.


Just like there isn't alot of concern over a zombie attack, or EMP strike.

lawman800
06-13-2011, 00:59
There isn't more concern, because its not a likely threat.

Just like there isn't alot of concern over a zombie attack, or EMP strike.

Hey now, let's not go overboard. Zombies are a serious threat, unlike an EMP or 10mm strike over US soil.

Unistat
06-13-2011, 07:51
U.S. State Dept. Human Trafficking website. (http://www.state.gov/g/tip/)

My cousin is a cop and a part time missionary who has worked with victims overseas, mostly in Pakistan and India.

Mr. Blandings
06-13-2011, 08:40
Dignity Memorial - Escape School (http://www.dignitymemorial.com/dm20/en_US/main/dm/community/escape-school.page) is program sponsored by the nationwide funeral services chain Dignity Memorial (http://www.dignitymemorial.com/dm20/en_US/main/dm/index.page?). The prgoram is offered at no cost by trained presenters to groups or organizations (your neighborhood HOA, scout troop, school group, etc.). It is a mixed instruction presentation conducted by a live presenter using a kid-themed video.

The presentation offers awareness of staying away from strangers, common lures ("Can you help me find my puppy?") and non-threatening ways to stop or slow a physical snatching. Also, escape techniques and attention getting techniques if being held are taught.

There are tips offered on the Escape School (http://www.dignitymemorial.com/dm20/en_US/main/dm/community/escape-school.page) website, and you can find a local presenter at >this link< (http://www.dignitymemorial.com/dm20/en_US/main/dm/community/escape-school-finder.page?).

Mr. Blandings
06-13-2011, 08:47
Also, I haven't read it, but Gavin de Becker's (https://www.gavindebecker.com/) book Protecting the Gift (https://www.gavindebecker.com/resources/book/protecting_the_gift/) pretty much focuses on being your child's finest protector.

If you've never seen it, The Gift of Fear (https://www.gavindebecker.com/resources/book/the_gift_of_fear/) is one of those "highly recommended" books in self protection circles. De Becker has some anti-gun issues, but the rest of his information is excellent.

sebecman
06-13-2011, 08:48
However, I did find a bunch of personal GPS trackers. I figure a few of them sewn into a packpack, clothing/shoes, and/or toys and it should give us a good couple of hours to track them down unless they strip the kid bare as soon as nabbing him/her. -Emt1581

Good idea, I think you are on to something!

R_W
06-13-2011, 09:36
If I wanted jokes and a jovial solution I'd have posted this in GNG.

I'm just surprised this isn't more of a concern for people here given the nature of the forum.

Personally, I've been doing a bunch of research and it seems like implantable GPS chip technology just isn't there yet. However, I did find a bunch of personal GPS trackers. I figure a few of them sewn into a packpack, clothing/shoes, and/or toys and it should give us a good couple of hours to track them down unless they strip the kid bare as soon as nabbing him/her.

-Emt1581

It is not that big of deal if your personal security is already in order. Letting your kids go to Europe or cancun for spring break is total FAIL.

And they usually do strip them ASAP. Phones all have gps and they know it.

FerFAL
06-13-2011, 21:27
Still, I'm curious what's out there in the way of survival and, more importantly, preparedness when it comes to kidnapping?

Thanks!

-Emt1581

Avoid getting kidnapped.:tongueout:
Keep your mouth shut about money and business.
Keep a low profile.
Seriously worried about kidnappings? Get an armored vehicle. Armored SUVs have saved many people from getting kidnapped.
Keep your cell phone at all times. Dont take unnecesary risks.
FerFAL

lawman800
06-14-2011, 02:07
Dignity Memorial - Escape School (http://www.dignitymemorial.com/dm20/en_US/main/dm/community/escape-school.page) is program sponsored by the nationwide funeral services chain Dignity Memorial (http://www.dignitymemorial.com/dm20/en_US/main/dm/index.page?). The prgoram is offered at no cost by trained presenters to groups or organizations (your neighborhood HOA, scout troop, school group, etc.). It is a mixed instruction presentation conducted by a live presenter using a kid-themed video.

The presentation offers awareness of staying away from strangers, common lures ("Can you help me find my puppy?") and non-threatening ways to stop or slow a physical snatching. Also, escape techniques and attention getting techniques if being held are taught.

There are tips offered on the Escape School (http://www.dignitymemorial.com/dm20/en_US/main/dm/community/escape-school.page) website, and you can find a local presenter at >this link< (http://www.dignitymemorial.com/dm20/en_US/main/dm/community/escape-school-finder.page?).

Awesome info. Thanks!

WilyCoyote
06-14-2011, 21:51
With respect to resisting an attempted abduction, all the advice I've heard from the people who know is NEVER let yourself be taken to what is called "The second crime scene."

What was mentioned earlier about criminals losing intrest in resistive victims is true. The victim selection process is all about looking for the easiest target or taking the target at the easiest time. Anything that can be done to throw a monkey wrench into the attackers plan increases the chances for survival.

Fighting back can also accomplish another key goal and that is to mark the attacker. Your toddler may not be able to resist a full grown man, but if they stick him in the face with a colored pencil, he may have some explaining to do if he's considered a suspect later on. This may not save the one kid, but perhaps many future ones. Scratching, Biting, and striking all leave key evidence on the attacker and the victim.

Additionally, many of the times a gun is pulled, it's not even a real gun. An airsoft maybe? Even if it is a real handgun, the odds are in your favor of surviving, even if your are shot.

I agree with previous posts about the attacker moving on to greener pastures when facing a resistive target and I plan and train myself and family accordingly.

There is no scenario I can imagine where giving over all control to an attacker with the hope that AFTER they have their way with you they MIGHT let you live. Ludicrous.

Huntinfool
06-14-2011, 23:59
There has been a lot of good advise and instruction here. But if it happens in spite of all your plans to prevent it.

I suggest you contact Liam Neeson He'll kick their butts for ya! LOL!

~HF~

lawman800
06-15-2011, 00:38
There has been a lot of good advise and instruction here. But if it happens in spite of all your plans to prevent it.

I suggest you contact Liam Neeson He'll kick their butts for ya! LOL!

~HF~

Hey! If EMT wanted jokes he would have posted it in GnG, dammit!:whistling:

cyrsequipment
06-15-2011, 06:23
Hey! If EMT wanted jokes he would have posted it in GnG, dammit!:whistling:

:rofl:

crimsonaudio
06-15-2011, 06:31
EMT - not everything is an immediate threat and no matter what you do, you'll never be prepared for everything.

Say what you will, but I can't imagine you actually enjoy life - you spend waaaaaaay too much time worrying about stuff. Lighten up a bit...

crimsonaudio
06-15-2011, 06:31
Hey! If EMT wanted jokes he would have posted it in GnG, dammit!:whistling:

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

DISPENSER 4 HIRE
08-12-2011, 17:20
From 2009:

In what officials caution is now a dangerous and even deadly crime wave, Phoenix, Arizona has become the kidnapping capital of America, with more incidents than any other city in the world outside of Mexico City and over 370 cases last year alone.

As was said, never allow yourself to be taken to a secondary crime scene.