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thecableguy
06-09-2011, 21:03
On another thread there was some talk about custom and semi customs. Well Harrison Custom came up and Paul said the wait time was 4 yrs on one of his builds. I was thinking couldn't you just get someone else to build you the exact same gun or is that a no no with smiths? I mean like the exact same gun same parts and all an identical copy if you will. What would stop another smith that doesn't have the wait from building a TRS or CQB or the Harrison Custom Carry package? Besides just ethics.


I know Chuck trolls :tongueout: here sometimes I would love for him to answer this.

Hokie1911
06-09-2011, 21:15
Most of the LTW smiffs would pretty much do a similar job on any build more or less, but you would be hard pressed to find any of those guys taking new work, or with a wait time any less than Harrison's.

knedrgr
06-09-2011, 21:19
I'm obviously not a smith, so my POV is just from a customer's POV. To me, A Package from a smith, is just that, it's NOT a custom build.

My definition of a custom/full-custom is when EVERY part of the gun is picked over and have special touches to them (i.e., different serrated/check pattern, shape, etc). And everything on that gun is built and shaped to the customer's EXACT specs. Sure a smith can advise on certain details to make it a reliable and functional gun. But ultimately a full-custom is always the details of aesthetics.

Can two similar guns exist from two different smiths, sure. There are so much one can change before you'll find guns to look similar. Just look at Heirloom, they have 3 of the top smiths in that shop. And some of their guns do look a like. Each smith has his own signature thing, but without paying attention to the minor details, you'll think it was built by one smith.

knedrgr
06-09-2011, 21:23
And I laugh when people say that their Brown, Wilson, Baer are semi-customs. It only makes it a semi-custom IF you changed something from the original spec sheet. If NOT then you just bought a production gun, out of their catalog, with the specs that was designed by the company.

samuse
06-09-2011, 21:30
And I laugh when people say that their Brown, Wilson, Baer are semi-customs. It only makes it a semi-custom IF you changed something from the original spec sheet. If NOT then you just bought a production gun, out of their catalog, with the specs that was designed by the company.


Wilson and Brown have a pretty good selection of options.

I guess they'd be customized production guns.

Les Baer has fixed sights adjustable sights, front cocking serrations, no front cocking serrations. You get to mix and match and customize to your semi-custom's hearts content.:rofl:

drc767
06-10-2011, 04:20
And I laugh when people say that their Brown, Wilson, Baer are semi-customs. It only makes it a semi-custom IF you changed something from the original spec sheet. If NOT then you just bought a production gun, out of their catalog, with the specs that was designed by the company.

What would you consider a semi-custom build, then?

Rinspeed
06-10-2011, 05:36
And I laugh when people say that their Brown, Wilson, Baer are semi-customs. It only makes it a semi-custom IF you changed something from the original spec sheet.




I always laugh when people feel the need to change industry standard terms. What more custom anyways some twit with Brownells catalog or someone smart enough to design and fabricate 90% of the parts that go into a build. :dunno:

knedrgr
06-10-2011, 06:06
What would you consider a semi-custom build, then?

To me, a semi custom gun is if you take a base gun and then order it with a few changes. An example would be an Ed Brown Special Forces Carry. One of the base is a SS w/ Gen3 coating, NS and with ambi TS, and it's listed as $2520. And that's going to have some features like:
SS frame/slide w/ coating
front and rear Novak low mount style night sights
chainlink on the front strap, and MSH
SF engraving on the slide
3-hole curve trigger
standard tactical hammer
stainless barrel and bushing

I know you can get SS frame/slide w/o the coating, but to me that's not consider "custom."

However, if I were to change some of those specs or add others, then it becomes semi-custom.
naked slide w/o the SF engraving
10-8 black rear sight
brass bead front sight
Wilson flat trigger
carry cut
ball cut
flush crown barrel
*Gen 3 the whole gun
commander ring hammer

CMG
06-10-2011, 07:12
Labels?

You guys are arguing about labels?

:rofl:

Hokie1911
06-10-2011, 07:17
Labels? We don't need no stinkin' labels!

faawrenchbndr
06-10-2011, 07:22
My GI was built up by Bob Miller, it's flippin amazing.
Fit & finish are superior to even Ed Brown, everything I've ever wanted.

A Custom built 1911 beats a semi-custom.

packsaddle
06-10-2011, 07:56
When you think about it in the context of why we really own guns, the whole custom vs. semi-custom vs. production argument is essentially juvenile.

Of course, this is a gun forum so that is to be expected.

faawrenchbndr
06-10-2011, 08:02
When you think about it in the context of why we really own guns, the whole custom vs. semi-custom vs. production argument is essentially juvenile.......

I do not follow your reasoning.

Not every person is made from the exact same mold. It only makes sense that there
will be "cookie cutter" production weapons, jazzed-up semi customs and full on customs.

It's just common sense,......how is that juvenile? :dunno:

rsxr22
06-10-2011, 08:03
The funny thing is that the whole semi-custom tag derived from the internet. Smith's like Yost, Chen, etc call WC and others production. WC and others call their models production guns.
Heirloom has designs on his website. If you call him and say you want that same exact gun, wouldnt you be getting a production Heirloom Precision? LOL all of it is so stupid.

MD357
06-10-2011, 08:29
LOL all of it is so stupid.

Whoa there buddy..... this is serious business.

Hokie1911
06-10-2011, 08:32
Whoa there buddy..... this is serious business.

Yeah, no kidding. Custom is C-U-S-T-O-M.

http://kimber1911pistols.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/kimber-custom-shop.jpg

okie
06-10-2011, 08:51
And I laugh when people say that their Brown, Wilson, Baer are semi-customs. It only makes it a semi-custom IF you changed something from the original spec sheet. If NOT then you just bought a production gun, out of their catalog, with the specs that was designed by the company.

My Range Officer is a semi custom then:supergrin:

knedrgr
06-10-2011, 08:53
My Range Officer is a semi custom then:supergrin:

so are my other 1911s :supergrin:

SPIN2010
06-10-2011, 08:55
And I laugh when people say that their Brown, Wilson, Baer are semi-customs. It only makes it a semi-custom IF you changed something from the original spec sheet. If NOT then you just bought a production gun, out of their catalog, with the specs that was designed by the company.

FACT! That is why I went used on a Brown. :supergrin:

okie
06-10-2011, 08:58
so are my other 1911s :supergrin:

:thumbsup:

BigDeeeeeeee
06-10-2011, 09:47
I mean like the exact same gun same parts and all an identical copy if you will.You're forgetting the most important factors: talent, skill, experience, an eye for detail and the desire to make something better than the rest. Anyone can assemble parts but that won't get you a Harrison.

wingwlkr
06-10-2011, 10:58
Depending on how much work you want done on your pistol, the wait time can be much shorter than four years. Gunsmiths have also been affected by this economy too, so you may get a much shorter build time than you expect. Contact the smith of your choice to see what he can do. We need to use these guys or lose them.

John Harrison did quite a bit of work on my Colt Commander and was finished in around 90 days. He sent me photos before having the pistol refinished, and by that time I had some more money, so I opted to have even more work done. That took another couple months. I need to get some photos of the finished pistol, but here is what it looked like before the additional work. I've posted these photos before, so I hope you don't mind the re-post.

Hokie1911
06-10-2011, 11:02
Yeah, we hate when you repost pics of a sweetazz pistol. Hate it. :supergrin:




















Can't wait to see the finished work. Looks great so far. :thumbsup:

polizei1
06-10-2011, 11:05
In good news...I should have mine back Tuesday! :)

So what would you guys consider my EMP then? Production, Semi-Custom, or Custom?

CAcop
06-10-2011, 11:30
On another thread there was some talk about custom and semi customs. Well Harrison Custom came up and Paul said the wait time was 4 yrs on one of his builds. I was thinking couldn't you just get someone else to build you the exact same gun or is that a no no with smiths? I mean like the exact same gun same parts and all an identical copy if you will. What would stop another smith that doesn't have the wait from building a TRS or CQB or the Harrison Custom Carry package? Besides just ethics.


I know Chuck trolls :tongueout: here sometimes I would love for him to answer this.

My duty gun started out as a stock Colt 1991A1. Over time I changed it into a near match for a TRS. Of course it is missing the fit and finish of the TRS. It has been worked on by two coworkers and me. So is it custom, semi-custom, or production?

I lean towards production just because it was born that way and it can be returned to it's original condition within minutes.

Now an older Colt 1991A1 in no way can be returned to original condition becuase a smith went over it big time.

custom2
06-11-2011, 10:33
I am not a 'smiff but I will tell you this, if I was and someone came to me with a build sheet that resembled another 'smiff's work, I would take their money. Capitalism is a good thing.