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jamesavery22
06-13-2011, 06:23
If anyone is curious about doing the work themselves.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUlCHn5oX-A

eracer
06-13-2011, 06:29
Seems to me a better option would be a wraparound piece of metal, secured by screws set into tapped holes in the top and sides of the slide.

That is a nice, clean look though.

jamesavery22
06-13-2011, 06:32
A piece of metal that wrapped around the RMR and the slide in addition to the standard RMR mounting holes?

The standard setup w/ the socket head cap screws that come with that RMR seem pretty tough. Beat the hell out of it, a fair amount last Thurs & Fri at Tactical Response fighting pistol(dropping, racking off the RMR, etc). Have had no issues.

Genin
06-13-2011, 07:18
Excellent jamesavery! You should start offering that service at a fair price. I'd take you up on it especially if you made some kind of a cover plate for when you don't want the RMR mounted, similar to the FNP Tac.

jamesavery22
06-13-2011, 08:17
Thanks Genin. I don't see any time in the near future where I'd have the bandwidth for anything like that. My quality isn't up to par with the big names either. My little side projects are all I have time for right now. Which are very fun :)

GRT45
06-13-2011, 08:37
jamesavery22, that's a very courageous do-it-yourself project to undertake. Thanks for documenting your work. It makes one appreciate the time and skill required to do this job with beautiful, like factory, results and repeat it over and over. I bet that Tenifer hardness is tough on your milling equipment.

When I shot a pistol with RDS the first time, it really struck me how much movement on the target I had been experiencing with iron sights and not realizing it. It's a great aid to training and not something to try after too much coffee.

I thought you guys would enjoy this video of Russell Phagan at the 2011 MGM Targets Ironman 3 Gun Match using an OST RMR-equipped Glock 34 9mm with a milled slide and co-witness BUIS. Don't miss the scene (1:55 mark) where he shoots while traveling down a zip line!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhTtn1nf8E0&feature=player_embedded

Russell finished in the top five among 26 competing in Trooper Class. You can read more in his After Action Report at the following link:

http://sinistralrifleman.wordpress.com/2011/06/11/ironman-2011-after-action-report/

Mamaluke
06-13-2011, 08:49
Well done.

bentbiker
06-13-2011, 09:20
James,
I am impressed. Without your mill, I paid OST to do it, and they, too, nicked the safety plunger channel. Not sure it could be moved rearward enough to avoid the nick without compromising the dovetail. Maybe Bowie's preferred location of the rear BUIS forward of the sight would afford more leeway, albeit with a lesser ability to visually pick up the irons. I will say that OST's cut (presumably CNC), matches the front profile of the RMR exactly. LWD's effort for one GT member was just a straight cut -- not nearly as good as yours, and THEY considered it commercial quality. I understand your reluctance to do it for others; sounds as if you billed at a fair rate for your time, it would be prohibitively expensive. Of course, you could use this as justification for a CNC mill.

I don't know if you are concerned, but the width of the 9mm slide is insufficient to totally seal against the gasket in the RMR, and the sight overhangs the slide ever so slightly. OST uses a piece of tape to "seal" the battery compartment, but I didn't feel that was sufficient. I obtained a part from the Trijicon Glock dovetail mount kit -- the thin (shim-stock thin) cover for the compartment -- and it works beautifully. Both from a sealing, and an appearance perspective (when viewed from below), it is an improvement. Not surprisingly, Gabe was not receptive to my suggestion that OST consider this enhancement.

jamesavery22
06-13-2011, 11:42
Thanks everyone. I've seen some of SinistralRifleman's vids before. Not that one until now. Thanks for the link that looks like a blast! Zipline thing is hilarious. Would love to do that.

bentbiker, thanks for the info on the seal. I'll look for that shim.

jamesavery22
09-07-2011, 08:35
Hrm looks like this video got me banned from warriortalk.com.

Wonder if I accidentally posted it on their forum after a few drinks :)

jamaicanj
09-07-2011, 11:31
Hrm looks like this video got me banned from warriortalk.com.

Wonder if I accidentally posted it on their forum after a few drinks :)

Getting banned for sharing your vid...not cool on their part.

silversport
09-07-2011, 11:39
you know that wasn't why he got banned...I would imagine that it was because they offer a competing product...

Bill

Genin
09-07-2011, 11:53
That is incredibly lame, it's because you showed how to the a process they charge copious amounts of money for and didn't want the competition. WarriorTalk is forum for Mr. Suarez's business, be it products or training, and shouldn't be confused for any other purpose.

you're welcome here jamesavery!

Giggity-Giggity
09-07-2011, 12:01
Perfect. The "Time to Shoot" portion proved the results. Thanks!!!

21Carrier
09-07-2011, 12:26
I thought you guys would enjoy this video of Russell Phagan at the 2011 MGM Targets Ironman 3 Gun Match using an OST RMR-equipped Glock 34 9mm with a milled slide and co-witness BUIS. Don't miss the scene (1:55 mark) where he shoots while traveling down a zip line!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhTtn1nf8E0&feature=player_embedded


WOW! I can't imagine anything being more fun. I would pay lots of money to be able to shoot in a place like that. That was incredible.

HAMMERHEAD
09-07-2011, 14:37
Nice work. I did tool & die before the recession, miss the old Bridgeport mill.
Thinking of the dual illuminated RMR for my 29.

Magsz
09-07-2011, 14:59
I believe and i may be wrong, that OST also mills in locating pins.

This keeps the RMR absolutely, 100% solid and offers true return to zero.

Someone correct me if im wrong.

Having said all of this, awesome, thanks for providing the community a great place to start! Very nice work.

HAMMERHEAD
09-07-2011, 17:31
Tough to leave 'pins' behind without CNC.

tonyparson
09-07-2011, 17:47
Nice work.:cool:

John Eastwood
09-07-2011, 17:52
That guy is good. Burris FastFire II on the incoming G17 coming soon...can't wait.

bentbiker
09-07-2011, 19:58
I believe and i may be wrong, that OST also mills in locating pins.

This keeps the RMR absolutely, 100% solid and offers true return to zero.

Someone correct me if im wrong.

Having said all of this, awesome, thanks for providing the community a great place to start! Very nice work.
OK (per your request). Unless they've recently changed their method, they don't mill in any locating pins. Only the two screws locate the RMR.

jamesavery22
09-08-2011, 14:24
Suarez owns his forum and runs his business. That's known to users who enter his community. If I posted this vid on that forum that's my fault. I "accepted" the agreement. So can't blame Mr. Suarez.

Just to clarify I do not offer any services. This was me playing around. I wish I could do this for a day job. And have tooling that worthy...

Will be putting up a new vid. Will be doing similar work on a G17.

Thanks btw.

Aloxite
09-19-2011, 18:20
James, Thanks for the info. I'm working with a buddy to put together a CNC program to mill a G19 slide for a Burris Fastfire II. I hope to do one for a RMR on my G20L after that if everything goes well and my funds allow.

I'm playing around with an idea for installing locating pins since I can't see anyway you could mill them (unless you've got a 1/64th" endmill.) The way I figure it I can probably modify some allen head cap screws so that they are the same outside diameter as the holes in the MRD. Then drill and tap the slide and install them with loctite. I'm going to cruise the hardware store and see what I can come up with.

jamesavery22
09-29-2011, 09:11
James, Thanks for the info. I'm working with a buddy to put together a CNC program to mill a G19 slide for a Burris Fastfire II. I hope to do one for a RMR on my G20L after that if everything goes well and my funds allow.

I'm playing around with an idea for installing locating pins since I can't see anyway you could mill them (unless you've got a 1/64th" endmill.) The way I figure it I can probably modify some allen head cap screws so that they are the same outside diameter as the holes in the MRD. Then drill and tap the slide and install them with loctite. I'm going to cruise the hardware store and see what I can come up with.

I don't know if pins are possible on the glock slide. Maybe a 21? Not a 9mm though. .45 cal glock slides are a little wider right?

The OD sits right at the edge of the 19 slide. So much so if you were to magically mill the pins into the slide I don't think you'd have a full circle. You'd have a flat side due to the lack of material.
So if you drilled a hole that was the same ID as the mounting holes in the RMR then threaded it you'd probably burst out the side of the slide...

I pondered how to mill the pins in the slide. You could mill a peninsula coming off the curve then use hand files to make it an island. That make any sense?

NAC
09-30-2011, 03:06
I don't know if pins are possible on the glock slide. Maybe a 21? Not a 9mm though. .45 cal glock slides are a little wider right?

The OD sits right at the edge of the 19 slide. So much so if you were to magically mill the pins into the slide I don't think you'd have a full circle. You'd have a flat side due to the lack of material.
So if you drilled a hole that was the same ID as the mounting holes in the RMR then threaded it you'd probably burst out the side of the slide...

I pondered how to mill the pins in the slide. You could mill a peninsula coming off the curve then use hand files to make it an island. That make any sense?

I'm not quite sure if I'm thinking of the same thing when everyone here mentions locating pins, but Glockworx mills indexing pins into the slide for the RMR cuts. Is this the same thing?

http://www.glockworx.com/Products.aspx?CAT=3720

Aloxite
09-30-2011, 08:01
After doing a bit more measuring I can see that there pretty much isn't a way to leave pin material for the locating holes in the corners of the Fastfire II. It does look like it would be straightforward to leave raised pins for the screw holes that are drilled and tapped. That seems like a win/win since it should locate the optic fairly well as well as providing more thread engagement without drilling too deep into the slide.

Looks like my project is on hold for a week or two. I want to buy some suppressor sights before I do the milling so I can see how far back I can get the optic without running into them. That way I can also drill holes in the sights and mill slots in the back of the slide to clear the screwdriver for windage and elevation adjustments.

jamesavery22
11-22-2011, 21:28
Follow-up video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LsNu4KB_h_w

Footage of the actual work.






NAC I see what you mean. Thats not what I meant :) The RMR has a hole at each of the front corners for pins. It also has the two middle holes for screws. Looks like glockworx uses a smaller screw. Namely a torx screw from one of their pictures. The standard 6-32 socket head cap screw that comes with the RMR wouldn't have enough material for a raised cut like that.

Mark Housel
12-25-2011, 11:22
mine in bold

James,
I am impressed. Without your mill, I paid OST to do it, and they, too, nicked the safety plunger channel. Not sure it could be moved rearward enough to avoid the nick without compromising the dovetail.

From the date of your post this was right about the time there were first supply, then bad QC issues with LW slides.
One of the QC issues was the rear sight dovetail location varying up to .030 for and aft.
The rear of the RMR cut is limited by the location of the dovetail in back and by the striker safety channel in front. On a factory Glock slide this is zero problem as they are very consistent.
In the extreme cases it was either risk compromising the dovetail integrity or running in to the striker safety channel.
With these LW slides it was a slide to slide balancing act that was achieved after first discovering the problem. There were a few (actually I'm not sure it was even three) slides prior to that where the striker safety channel was nicked as in your case.

Maybe Bowie's preferred location of the rear BUIS forward of the sight would afford more leeway, albeit with a lesser ability to visually pick up the irons. I will say that OST's cut (presumably CNC), matches the front profile of the RMR exactly.

Analog CNC ;-)

LWD's effort for one GT member was just a straight cut -- not nearly as good as yours, and THEY considered it commercial quality. I understand your reluctance to do it for others; sounds as if you billed at a fair rate for your time, it would be prohibitively expensive. Of course, you could use this as justification for a CNC mill.

I don't know if you are concerned, but the width of the 9mm slide is insufficient to totally seal against the gasket in the RMR, and the sight overhangs the slide ever so slightly. OST uses a piece of tape to "seal" the battery compartment, but I didn't feel that was sufficient.

Actually the tape is to insulate the battery contacts which are both exposed. This can lead not only to the contacts touching and draining the battery quickly, but to more subtle leakage path issues that shorten battery life. The newer RMR's have a different contact design that exposes only one terminal of the battery thus eliminating the problem.
The O-ring seal is somewhat compromised on the narrower slides. I have heard of these shim plates, but the only ones I have seen personally were home made with misaligned holes.

I obtained a part from the Trijicon Glock dovetail mount kit -- the thin (shim-stock thin) cover for the compartment -- and it works beautifully. Both from a sealing, and an appearance perspective (when viewed from below), it is an improvement. Not surprisingly, Gabe was not receptive to my suggestion that OST consider this enhancement.

Are these Trijicon parts available separately? I haven't seen them with any RMR's that I have installed. I can't see any reason that they couldn't be installed along with an RMR or after the fact?
You might want to re-fit the extractor side screw to maintain all the thread engagement possible on that side.

Mark Housel
12-25-2011, 11:31
mine in bold
I believe and i may be wrong, that OST also mills in locating pins.

No, never did.

This keeps the RMR absolutely, 100% solid and offers true return to zero.
Someone correct me if im wrong.

These would only provide additional stability and RTZ if they are properly done and don't allow any movement of the RMR on the bosses. I have not heard of RTZ issues.
The mounting screws seat in the countersinks and re-locate the RMR quite well.

Having said all of this, awesome, thanks for providing the community a great place to start! Very nice work.

bentbiker
12-25-2011, 12:59
From the date of your post this was right about the time there were first supply, then bad QC issues with LW slides.

One of the QC issues was the rear sight dovetail location varying up to .030 for and aft. The rear of the RMR cut is limited by the location of the dovetail in back and by the striker safety channel in front. On a factory Glock slide this is zero problem as they are very consistent. In the extreme cases it was either risk compromising the dovetail integrity or running in to the striker safety channel.

With these LW slides it was a slide to slide balancing act that was achieved after first discovering the problem. There were a few (actually I'm not sure it was even three) slides prior to that where the striker safety channel was nicked as in your case.

Are these Trijicon parts available separately? I haven't seen them with any RMR's that I have installed. I can't see any reason that they couldn't be installed along with an RMR or after the fact?
You might want to re-fit the extractor side screw to maintain all the thread engagement possible on that side.

Mark, good to see you over here. Mine is a factory Glock slide (G19), and the striker channel was still nicked. Does that mean I can have another slide milled at no charge?

As for the battery compartment covers, I was able to acquire directly from Trijicon but I don't believe they usually "offer" them. However, since OST so openly promotes their product, they'd be really dumb to refuse your request to buy them inexpensively . . . or even no charge . . . and then you'd have an exclusive. As for thread engagement, you probably don't remember, but I asked for, and you personally provided, an extra full length screw for that side for that side, but so far I haven't done it -- I guess I should go back and complete that because engagement on that side is minimal because of the channel.

In a separate thread ( http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1389555 ), a GT member recently purchased (sounds as if it might not have been from OST) a milled LWD slide and installed the RMR himself, not knowing the need for a shorter screw on the extractor side. We solved his FTFeed problem with the explanation, and then Gabe promised him a screw of the proper length after he posted on Warriortalk.

Mark Housel
12-25-2011, 13:13
That was back in the day before I took the ride under the OST bus. Another guy who I know well is installing them now.

I now install all RMR's using 6-40 screws and provide an extra set of screws with each installation. This provides more threads in the hole over the extractor, and they hold much better than the stock 6-32 screws.

Perhaps I will contact Trijicon and see about these shim plates. They would certainly give the O-ring a better surface to seal on.
Gabe can do, or not do, whatever he wishes.

Yes, I saw that thread on WT. I refrained from posting on it over there since Gabe banned me.
Hell even Tom C. installed an RMR and sent out a slide that way. When he got it back he gave it to me to figure out what had gone wrong to make it malfunction.

bentbiker
12-25-2011, 15:02
That was back in the day before I took the ride under the OST bus. Another guy who I know well is installing them now. Sorry, I guess I'm way behind -- you took care of me in January of 2011; guess whatever happened took place after that. Where are you now?

I now install all RMR's using 6-40 screws and provide an extra set of screws with each installation. This provides more threads in the hole over the extractor, and they hold much better than the stock 6-32 screws.

Perhaps I will contact Trijicon and see about these shim plates. They would certainly give the O-ring a better surface to seal on.
Gabe can do, or not do, whatever he wishes. We both know that he always does; he rebuffed my suggestion that OST look into it. Actually, "rebuffed" is probably too mild a term.

Yes, I saw that thread on WT. I refrained from posting on it over there since Gabe banned me. Wow, I had no idea all this happened. There is some great info over there, but way too much "attitude" by one guy for me to frequent the place unless I need a specific piece of info.

Hell even Tom C. installed an RMR and sent out a slide that way. When he got it back he gave it to me to figure out what had gone wrong to make it malfunction. What do you think of the technique being used by Glockworx with the towers being milled in? My responses in red.

Mark Housel
12-25-2011, 16:33
[QUOTE=bentbiker;18336669]guess whatever happened took place after that. Where are you now?

I am an independent gunsmith now. PM me for my email address. I'm not sure that I'm allowed to post that or my URL on the forum.

I was just a contractor with TSD. I am mostly working on RMR and other RDS installations currently but hope to expand beyond this since I have my FFL. It never occured to me that I'd end up being a pistol smith.
I do a lot of M&P and other slides that OST doesn't want or have the capability of handling.

I put a Deltapoint on a HK P30 for a customer just the other day and am working on a design for an improved Aimpoint T-1 mounting method for Glock slides for another guy.

What do you think of the technique being used by Glockworx with the towers being milled in?

Like the milled in bosses, I really don't see that they buy all that much from a functional standpoint.
I've read that without them the screws will shear right off, or that they won't RTZ at all. Having installed hundreds of RMR's I suspect if either were accurate than there would have been complaints by now.

Nary a peep.

How much stress is there going to be from a <1oz piece of aluminum that is held by steel ledges fore and aft and held down by two 6-40 screws?

OTOH, there are RDS sights that use either button head screws (J-Point IIRC) or socket head cap screws that are not self locating like the countersunk screws that RMR's and Deltapoint use.

They may benefit from mounting bosses as the mounting holes are not perfectly tight fits around the screw and the RDS could move slightly when the battery is changed.

I hope to have CNC capability this Spring and may do that if it looks like there is actual demand.
/QUOTE]

bentbiker
12-27-2011, 17:39
Deleted. Email sent.