Negligent discharges while re-holstering. [Archive] - Glock Talk

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cfr
06-13-2011, 08:51
I've always told myself I wouldn't carry a Glock IWB without a NY trigger on it. However, I just got a G27 for IWB carry, and really dont see myself doing that.

I spoke to a friend that carries a Glock, and what he does is takes the holster out of his pant, puts the Glock in it, and then puts the whole thing in his pants. This makes sense to me, and seems to really mitigate the risk quite a bit.

I'm not a LEO, and would therefore never need to unholster my Glock to detain someone, then need to reholster it.

I did this a bunch of times yesetrday while shooting my new Glock. While its a pain, it seems like really good practice. It may not be as cool looking as "I'm the only one here that can handle a Glock fou-tay"..., but I'm willing to take that chance. :cool:

Thoughts?

Glockdude1
06-13-2011, 08:54
Thoughts?

Training.

Range time.

More training.

My G27 is my every day carry. IWB %90 of the time.

:cool:

cowboy1964
06-13-2011, 08:57
I never reholster my striker-fired guns IWB while loaded (OWB is fine). The retention is usually tight and the shirt material is too close to the trigger.

I don't really carry any hammer fired guns but I wouldn't mind reholstering with those since I could put my thumb over the hammer and would feel the hammer moving while reholstering.

eastx
06-13-2011, 09:00
Has never crossed my mind, I am not in the habit of drawing and re-holstering except for practice, and I tend to keep my finger off the trigger until I am on target

cfr
06-13-2011, 09:04
Has never crossed my mind, I am not in the habit of drawing and re-holstering except for practice, and I tend to keep my finger off the trigger until I am on target


Good point. For clarity, I am not worried about my finger on the trigger, but clothing, the holster itself, etc.

Bren
06-13-2011, 09:06
I spoke to a friend that carries a Glock, and what he does is takes the holster out of his pant, puts the Glock in it, and then puts the whole thing in his pants. This makes sense to me, and seems to really mitigate the risk quite a bit.


That's the only way I ever use a leather IWB holster. I will reholster with my kydex IWB, but with leather it's just easier to take out the holster and put the whole thing back in. I don't do it for fear of shooting myself, but I've carried Glocks IWB with no holster at times over the last 20+ years, so I'm not that scared of them.

Glockdude1
06-13-2011, 09:09
CFR,

Take your UNLOADED G27 (trigger forward) and practice holstering/unholstering it with your normal clothes on, IWB holster in place.

You will see it will be difficult/impossible for the trigger to move at all.

Training, Training, Training.

:cool:

fuzzy03cls
06-13-2011, 09:14
Watch as you re-holster & it should never be a problem. But it's training training & more training.
I've always told myself I wouldn't carry a Glock IWB without a NY trigger on it.
Another internet BS thought.

Pred8tory
06-13-2011, 09:17
Certain holsters are made to make this simpler, like a Blade-Tech kydex IWB.

djpuffnstuff
06-13-2011, 09:38
have a crossbreed supertuck (leather and kydex) and I re-holster everyday with a round chambered. Unless my finger is in the trigger gaurd the trigger will not be pulled.

Texcowboy
06-13-2011, 09:43
I use a Safe-T-Block on my Glocks to keep the trigger from being snagged on clothing or the edge of a leather holster.
I know some will jump on and say that is not needed, etc., etc., just saying what I use and what makes me comfortable.
If you are not familiar with the Safe-T-Block it is a triangular piece of plastic that fits behind the trigger to keep it from being depressed and can be pushed out when ready to fire.

NWGlocker
06-13-2011, 09:45
have a crossbreed supertuck (leather and kydex) and I re-holster everyday with a round chambered. Unless my finger is in the trigger gaurd the trigger will not be pulled.

Exactly.

OP, just practice holstering with an unloaded gun until you get the hang of it. You will see that as long as your finger is off the trigger and above the trigger guard, you will not pull the trigger while re-holstering. I think if you are going to carry a handgun for defense you should (A) carry with one in the chamber and (B) learn to re-holster without removing the holster. God for bid you ever use your gun in self defense, when the cops show up you will not want to have it in your hand as they approach.

mrsurfboard
06-13-2011, 09:49
Just do it in front of a mirror and you wont have a problem

cfr
06-13-2011, 09:58
Moved...

billyblooshoes
06-13-2011, 10:03
get an MTAC IWB and you wont have to worry about it.

cfr
06-13-2011, 10:03
Exactly.

OP, just practice holstering with an unloaded gun until you get the hang of it. You will see that as long as your finger is off the trigger and above the trigger guard, you will not pull the trigger while re-holstering. I think if you are going to carry a handgun for defense you should (A) carry with one in the chamber and (B) learn to re-holster without removing the holster. God for bid you ever use your gun in self defense, when the cops show up you will not want to have it in your hand as they approach.

Reholstering before police arrive? My thought had always been to put a weapon on the ground before they arrived, and I had never even considered reholstering. This would be due to adreneline, shaking, etc. Is this what most recommend?

My finger isnt the concern, clothing is. I've been carrying IWB for a few years now, but that was a Keltec P11. The trigger is much heavier/ longer on those than a Glock. I suppose it couldn't hurt to do this exercise just for kicks though.

I also know that a quality holster would be ideal. Unfortunately that is out for a while because of this (http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1348670). Until then I'm stuck with my $12.00 Uncle Mikes.

Chowser
06-13-2011, 10:37
If I ever have to shoot someone off duty, the gun is never going back into the holster. I will keep it ready at hand until the uniforms show up then place it on the ground and hope they see my badge before tossing me to the ground.

:rofl:

For IWB, I use a Galco UDC and it is not too hard to reholster. When I reholster, it's not some quick action, it's slow and deliberate so I'm not too concerned about pulling the trigger.

Sometimes, I use the Desantis Nemesis holster for pocket carry of my 33. If I have to reholster with that, I will take the whole holster out of my pocket.

MoNsTeR
06-13-2011, 10:37
I don't know what you guys are wearing but I don't see any conceivable way that clothing could cause the trigger to be pulled. If you can't safely get your gun into your holster you shouldn't be carrying in the first place.

cfr
06-13-2011, 10:52
I don't know what you guys are wearing but I don't see any conceivable way that clothing could cause the trigger to be pulled. If you can't safely get your gun into your holster you shouldn't be carrying in the first place.

I have only heard that clothing has caused issues. I have no idea if it's factual, or only internet rumor.

iluv2viddyfilms
06-13-2011, 10:56
I never reholster my striker-fired guns IWB while loaded (OWB is fine). The retention is usually tight and the shirt material is too close to the trigger.

I don't really carry any hammer fired guns but I wouldn't mind reholstering with those since I could put my thumb over the hammer and would feel the hammer moving while reholstering.

Why carry with one in the chamber though. Odds of a ND are much higher than actually needing to use it.

Milltown
06-13-2011, 11:02
\
I spoke to a friend that carries a Glock, and what he does is takes the holster out of his pant, puts the Glock in it, and then puts the whole thing in his pants. This makes sense to me, and seems to really mitigate the risk quite a bit.


Thoughts?

I do the exact opposite, I take the gun out of the holster before I put it on. Besides it being a lot easier to put on, I also don't laze myself while trying to put on a loaded gun.

tango44
06-13-2011, 11:23
Glock sport combat holster?????

fuzzy03cls
06-13-2011, 11:27
You said this...
clothing is. I've been carrying IWB for a few years now, but that was a Keltec P11. The trigger is much heavier/ longer on those than a Glock
Then this......
I have only heard that clothing has caused issues. I have no idea if it's factual, or only internet rumor.

It would seem to me that if you had this problem you would have mentioned you had it with the 1st gun.
Doesn't seem to be so I think your listening to internet BS.

cole
06-13-2011, 11:27
I've always told myself I wouldn't carry a Glock IWB without a NY trigger on it. However, I just got a G27 for IWB carry, and really dont see myself doing that.

I spoke to a friend that carries a Glock, and what he does is takes the holster out of his pant, puts the Glock in it, and then puts the whole thing in his pants. This makes sense to me, and seems to really mitigate the risk quite a bit.

I'm not a LEO, and would therefore never need to unholster my Glock to detain someone, then need to reholster it.

I did this a bunch of times yesetrday while shooting my new Glock. While its a pain, it seems like really good practice. It may not be as cool looking as "I'm the only one here that can handle a Glock fou-tay"..., but I'm willing to take that chance. :cool:

Thoughts?

My thought is the need to reholster should be rare. If you needed to go somewhere you can't take your gun (e.g. bar, school, etc.) your call, but it's certainloy more safe to remove the holster if possible because ideally you should keep the trigger covered in the glove box, under the seat, etc. This does not work so well with belt loop type rigs, and is still a pain with most IWB if you need to do it while seated. So, it's about convenience, too.

cfr
06-13-2011, 12:33
You said this...

Then this......


It would seem to me that if you had this problem you would have mentioned you had it with the 1st gun.
Doesn't seem to be so I think your listening to internet BS.

Perhaps you're on to something.... however, not only did I have a pistol with a longer/ heavier trigger, but also a much better holster. The sudden switch of the two has me a bit nervous.

I also agree with what someone else said regarding not needing to reholster very often.

We'll see.

maestro pistolero
06-13-2011, 12:40
have a crossbreed supertuck (leather and kydex) and I re-holster everyday with a round chambered. Unless my finger is in the trigger gaurd the trigger will not be pulled.
get an MTAC IWB and you wont have to worry about it.

May I suggest you guys don't completely cross this off your list of safety concerns. If you are not watching as you re-holster in a Crossbreed, CompTac or similar holster, it is entirely possible for a piece of clothing or other object to enter the trigger guard area. It doesn't have to be your finger, although that would be the pinnacle of negligence.

Remember no-one ever won a gun fight by RE-HOLSTERING quickly. With an IWB holster, it is something that should be done mindfully with your undivided attention for the brief amount of time that it takes.

And there is no need or benefit to jamming the gun in. If you re-holster with the minimum amount of downward pressure necessary to slide the gun in, you may be able to detect any resistance that may indicate trigger pressure is being applied.

My two cents.

fuzzy03cls
06-13-2011, 13:47
Having a CBST, & using it in a 9 hour training class, of holster draw & re-holstering from concealment, I don't see how. Unless your wearing something with a string or other dangling piece of material or jewelry.

AA#5
06-13-2011, 13:58
I don't think a Glock is a wise choice for IWB. Likewise for any striker fired pistol with a light trigger. I'm sure AD's are infrequent, but that won't matter much if it's your AD.

jrush2525
06-13-2011, 14:13
My question is what in the world would you be wearing that would pull the trigger? Put your charm bracelet on your non-shooting hand..... :supergrin:

jamesavery22
06-13-2011, 14:23
A piece of a shirt in the right crass ass scenario could pull even a 12lbs DA trigger if you're sloppy enough on your holstering.

I'd be more worried about something falling into the holster. Keys, spent brass, etc. That has happened. Keep your head up and still check your holster when you reholster. This goes for any pistol and any holster.

Train with an airsoft for a while if you don't feel comfortable.

cfr
06-13-2011, 14:24
I think the holster has a lot to do with it too. I tried reholstering my unchambered Glock into my UM holster. The side of the holster touching my undies got pushed down (thereby causing the material to get bunched up, right next to the trigger).....

That sealed the deal for me.

It did NOT pull the trigger, but Im simply not brave enough to attempt this loaded.

Will fo sho reevalute when I have a better holster.

cfr
06-13-2011, 14:26
My question is what in the world would you be wearing that would pull the trigger? Put your charm bracelet on your non-shooting hand..... :supergrin:

Supposedly the famous DEA agent's jacket had those draw string things, and that got caught in the trigger.

RMD
06-13-2011, 15:10
CBST - always a round in the chamber. Top of holster sits even with pants and I always holster slowly and watch what I'm doing.

Zacten
06-13-2011, 15:55
A person should always holster slowly while looking in the holster in case any debris fell in there that could unintentionally pull the trigger. Didn't a guy just put a hole in his leg and car after holstering in a car and it catching on some clothing? Gotta find the article when I'm not at work.

cfr
06-13-2011, 16:17
Not clothing, but something like this is my concern:

http://www.itstactical.com/warcom/firearms/safety-warning-worn-leather-holsters-can-cause-accidental-discharges/

TheBelly
06-13-2011, 16:26
have a crossbreed supertuck (leather and kydex) and I re-holster everyday with a round chambered. Unless my finger is in the trigger gaurd the trigger will not be pulled.

I have found the leather/kydex combos for IWB carry to be a wonderful option.

I'm not really worried about actually putting the weapon IN the holster. I've got all the time in the world to do that at home. I want to make sure it stays there and that I can get to it in a fairly rapid fashion, should the need arise.

barstoolguru
06-13-2011, 16:54
I use a Safe-T-Block on my Glocks to keep the trigger from being snagged on clothing or the edge of a leather holster.
I know some will jump on and say that is not needed, etc., etc., just saying what I use and what makes me comfortable.
If you are not familiar with the Safe-T-Block it is a triangular piece of plastic that fits behind the trigger to keep it from being depressed and can be pushed out when ready to fire.

I have seen these and was unclear intil now if I wanted on. I agree with you, if you have time to pull, you have time nock the block out and if you don't or can't maybe you shoudn't pull. with a lighter trigger pull connector this might be a good idea.

dgbee456
06-13-2011, 17:11
What I have done to ease my mind in the last year or two is to
1. chamber the round,
2. holster the pistol in my FIST IWB leather or My Kydex FIST IWB Clip on holsters and then
3. I put the holstered weapon in place in my pants and the holster then clips on to my gun belt.

When I am done carrying I take the holster and glock off my belt without removing the loaded glock,
most of the times I put them both in my gun safe that way.

This to me seems the best way for me to avoid unnecessary unholstering and holstering the loaded glock.

Steel Head
06-13-2011, 17:27
I keep the gun in the holster when I take it off or put it on.
I also practice drawing and reholstering at times along with my target shooting.
My M-TAC is pretty easy to reholster but my carry gun is rarely out of it's holster anyway.
All the AD's(ND's)I've seen were people diddlin with their piece with or with out booze involved and it seems I hear of many with poor carry solutions.

ADK_40GLKr
06-13-2011, 17:45
CFR,

Take your UNLOADED G27 (trigger forward) and practice holstering/unholstering it with your normal clothes on, IWB holster in place.

You will see it will be difficult/impossible for the trigger to move at all.

Training, Training, Training.

:cool:

Not IMPOSSIBLE to pull the trigger with your shirttail but pretty difficult. I have tried the (unloaded) experiment you describe. And have PULLED THE TRIGGER that way. (I rolled up a washcloth, inserted it through the trigger guard in front of the trigger, and jammed the gun into the kydex holster. CLICK! If that will do it, so CAN a shirttail!)

Finger over trigger guard protects from the outside. Lifting up covering garments with weak hand and WATCHING the gun enter the holster protects the trigger from the body side. It may not look cool, but it's safer.

TexasTrash
06-13-2011, 18:07
Not clothing, but something like this is my concern:

http://www.itstactical.com/warcom/firearms/safety-warning-worn-leather-holsters-can-cause-accidental-discharges/


This is one of the reasons I got a leather IWB holster that is reinforced at the top. Still a good ideal to check it out every now and then.

TangoCharlie145
06-13-2011, 18:20
I had posted this on another forum here at Glocktalk in February, but when safety is concerned, it is worth reposting.

I personally know of 2 incidents in Louisiana where a Glock discharged whlie being holstered or was holstered and both were in ref to clothing malfunctions.
First instance, sub was reholstering and the string on the jacket was caught in the trigger guard and the weapon discharged.

Second instance, sub had reholstered with a jacket that is made for holster carry and the string that was on the zipper was reholsterd with the weapon. When the sub was removing the jacket, the zipper was puilled up and the weapon discharged in the holster.

We just went through a concealed carry class this weekend and in Louisiana, it was uncommonly cold. We touched on the fact that you have to be very careful when drawing with a lot of clothes on as well as reholstering.

These AD/ND's were the fault of the operator, not the firearm or the holster. As people who carry firearms everyday, whether civilian or LE, we have to make a concious effort to make sure our gear is functional and safe. Not blaming the guys that this happened to, but attention to detail may have prevented this. In both instances, future doo dads on zippers were removed. In both instances, the TRIGGER was pulled inadvertantly.

Just my 2 cents worth. Hope this helps.
TC

banger
06-13-2011, 18:34
At the risk of sounding "flippant"...

If you fear the idea of carring your Glock loaded chamber in an IWB.

DON'T!!!

There is no shame in using another system of firearm that would suit your needs better.

Not all gun and holsters combinations are made for all people.

I have long been of the opinion that guns are cheap.

If the chambered Glock in an IWB concerns you...try an ankle holster.

If this does not work try a Smith and Wesson "J" frame.

If this does not work try a Ruger LCP.

If IWB concerns you....Don't... use a belt holster.

My point is that there is nearly an infinite combination of Weapons and holster available.

Simply try another.

fuzzy03cls
06-13-2011, 19:04
It's just mind blowing the responses in this thread. I really hope & pray none of you ever have to use your gun in a real SD situation.

And underlines the need for people to actually train with their weapons they choose to carry for that purpose.

Ferdinandd
06-13-2011, 19:20
I train with a loaded G34 for USPSA. A lot of my focus is just draw and fire 2 shots as quickly as I can. That makes for a lot of reholstering into my Safariland 5188 OWB worn on a good belt. I watch the gun all the way into the holster, moving slowly and deliberately. I could see how a hasty move or clothing, etc out of place could lead to an AD. If a holster has any tendancy to collapse once the gun is drawn, I'd be especially careful.

TurtleBoy617
06-13-2011, 22:59
CFR,

Take your UNLOADED G27 (trigger forward) and practice holstering/unholstering it with your normal clothes on, IWB holster in place.

You will see it will be difficult/impossible for the trigger to move at all.

Training, Training, Training.

:cool:

This.

Check out holsters that do not collapse in your waistband as well. Such as the infidel or CTAC holsters for sale at comp-tac.com. This minimizes the risk that something holster related will get your trigger (though with a quality holster this is probably unlikely).

I carry a glock IWB, and have for around a year and 8 months, and I have a routine. The routine is to always put my holster on first, buckle my belt, and never have a routine when it comes to loading and holstering. I ensure the weapon is safely loaded, and move my index finger away from the trigger, and life up my shirt and check for obstructions to where I am about to holster the firearm.

When I carry, I intend to have the weapon ready for self-defense, I carry C1; ready to go, the way it was made to work.

Glockdude1
06-13-2011, 23:14
This.

Check out holsters that do not collapse in your waistband as well. Such as the infidel or CTAC holsters for sale at comp-tac.com. This minimizes the risk that something holster related will get your trigger (though with a quality holster this is probably unlikely).

I carry a glock IWB, and have for around a year and 8 months, and I have a routine. The routine is to always put my holster on first, buckle my belt, and never have a routine when it comes to loading and holstering. I ensure the weapon is safely loaded, and move my index finger away from the trigger, and life up my shirt and check for obstructions to where I am about to holster the firearm.

When I carry, I intend to have the weapon ready for self-defense, I carry C1; ready to go, the way it was made to work.

:thumbsup:

JW1178
06-14-2011, 00:28
Well, that is what happened to that DEA agent when a string from his jacket got in the trigger gaurd area, and when he put the G22 in his holster the string being caught between the holster and trigger tightened and he had a bullet go through his leg. I guess if it could happen, holstering would be a time most easy.

JuneyBooney
06-14-2011, 00:36
There have been a number of people who have ad/nd while holstering their Glocks. I think they hit the little so called "safety" while holstering. It happens but there are tons of Glocks out there.

Toorop
06-14-2011, 01:28
At the risk of sounding "flippant"...

If you fear the idea of carring your Glock loaded chamber in an IWB.

DON'T!!!

There is no shame in using another system of firearm that would suit your needs better.

Not all gun and holsters combinations are made for all people.

I have long been of the opinion that guns are cheap.

If the chambered Glock in an IWB concerns you...try an ankle holster.

If this does not work try a Smith and Wesson "J" frame.

If this does not work try a Ruger LCP.

If IWB concerns you....Don't... use a belt holster.

My point is that there is nearly an infinite combination of Weapons and holster available.

Simply try another.
I agree. I myself prefer OWB holsters but everyone should carry how they most feel comfortable and with what works for them.

localfiveoh
06-14-2011, 01:45
I don't know what you guys are wearing but I don't see any conceivable way that clothing could cause the trigger to be pulled. If you can't safely get your gun into your holster you shouldn't be carrying in the first place.

A girl in the academy class before me shot herself in the leg reholstering. She was wearing a coat with draw string sides, the plastic draw string piece got into the trigger guard when putting her gun in the holster.

I have 2 North Face and a 5.11 (work coat) fleece coats, all have draw strings and the plastic piece sits at 3 and 9 o'clock. At a qualification shoot I had the draw string plastic piece go in front of the trigger guard. Scared me, I almost cut them off right then. Anyway, thats the only way I know of clothing interfering with it. I don't see how just a shirt could.

MajorD
06-14-2011, 08:02
finger off trigger, sweep all loose articles -clothing thumb breaks etcout of the way and VISUALLY verify there is nothing in the way- then holster. I see too many peopl just try to stuff the gunn in without looking or clearing material away- with all kinds of guns- and this is what leads to problems. I myself hate thumb breaks and won't carry in a holster with one. A proper holster doesn't need a thumb break for retention any way. The only exception to the no thumb break rule is some le agencies require a retention device -I use the same thought and mechanical provess for re-holstering wether it is a loaded glock or a single cation revolver with the hammer down on an empty chamber

fuzzy03cls
06-14-2011, 10:39
I see too many peopl just try to stuff the gunn in without looking or clearing material awayThe new age of training being brought up is to not look the gun into the holster. The reasoning given is your taking your eyes & focus off of the situation.
I have met several LE trainers that teach this.
While I think it's dumb too, it's what seems to be "in" right now.

Ronaldo
06-14-2011, 15:23
Actually, it is tactically stupid to reholster until the situation has been fully resolved. Then you can 'look it in' safely.

If their is still tension in the air I'm not reholstering anything.

Ronaldo

Taz
06-14-2011, 15:35
The new age of training being brought up is to not look the gun into the holster. The reasoning given is your taking your eyes & focus off of the situation.
I have met several LE trainers that teach this.
While I think it's dumb too, it's what seems to be "in" right now.

There is a difference between LEO and a CCW civilian. LEO may be forced to holster his weapon to cuff a perp. Even though he will have an army of his friends pointing a gun at the perp he should still be aware of his surroundings. Mr Murphy would choose to bite him in the ass the exact moment he looked his gun into the holster.

What's "in" for LEO may not be wise for the average CCW type. We all need to make decisions on what is appropriate based on our circumstances. As an average CCW guy I'm not holstering my weapon till the area is safe, in which case I will look the gun into the holster rather than try to speed reholster the thing.

Bruce M
06-14-2011, 16:03
The new age of training being brought up is to not look the gun into the holster. ...While I think it's dumb too, it's what seems to be "in" right now.
Not sure its so new as I was taught not to look at the holster while returning the gun to it. That was long ago enough such that we had just gone from cross draw to strong side holsters. Rodgers, if I recall.

mdalle01
06-14-2011, 16:10
have a crossbreed supertuck (leather and kydex) and I re-holster everyday with a round chambered. Unless my finger is in the trigger gaurd the trigger will not be pulled.

Same here.

dgbee456
06-14-2011, 16:39
the danger really is drawstrings and plastic toggles that hang off of them,
and I always check the holster before putting it on for something that could have fallen in there.

MoNsTeR
06-14-2011, 16:41
Not clothing, but something like this is my concern:

http://www.itstactical.com/warcom/firearms/safety-warning-worn-leather-holsters-can-cause-accidental-discharges/

Easy solution: don't buy bargain basement leather holsters. A Milt Sparks or Kramer will never degrade that way, and of course it's impossible for Kydex to do that.

maestro pistolero
06-16-2011, 09:23
Having a CBST, & using it in a 9 hour training class, of holster draw & re-holstering from concealment, I don't see how. Unless your wearing something with a string or other dangling piece of material or jewelry.
. . . or if your shirt tail becomes untucked, even slightly. . . or if spent brass fell in the holster. . . saying something dangerous can't happen because it's unlikely is asking for trouble. What's the harm in caution? Re-holstering accidents don't always involve fingers on triggers. Ignore this at your own peril.
http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQnPp7FVieaYKGz-0d9wi19I3fuaC7_rdpf19dwU0E7khFdKsBC

DogLegArms
06-16-2011, 20:58
I've unloaded my Glock with the trigger forward and holstered it around 100 times in every imaginable position (sitting down, in my car, laying down, kneeling, standing up, hopping on one foot, etc...) wearing all different types of shirts and jackets I own and could not snag the trigger. I've done this a few times too.

I'm not saying it's not possible, I'm saying with the holster I use and the clothes I wear and I only holster while standing up, clothes pulled up and out of the way, I can't foresee a ND occurring.

cfr
06-16-2011, 23:58
For the first couple years I carried my Keltec, I used a bulky leather holster. A few months ago I tried the Uncle Mikes, and the difference was huge. I'd almost rather have an ND than go back to something totally uncomfortable like that. :wow: Kydex holsters dont look much more cozy than bulky leather does (could be wrong, feel free to correct me).

Can anyone recommend a thick nylon IWB holster? Something thicker than a standard Uncle Mikes, but more flexible than thick leather? I was at a store tonight and saw some Uncle Mikes Law Enforcement holsters that are about what Im looking for, but they were OWB.

Thanks!

OmniscientX
06-17-2011, 00:09
Why carry with one in the chamber though. Odds of a ND are much higher than actually needing to use it.

Why carry it at all?


Instead of making holstering your carry weapon so overly complicated, just use common sense and practice... *sigh*

IndyGunFreak
06-17-2011, 07:15
Re-holstering accidents don't always involve fingers on triggers. Ignore this at your own peril.
http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQnPp7FVieaYKGz-0d9wi19I3fuaC7_rdpf19dwU0E7khFdKsBC

So please tell us what you've heard causing them, OTHER than trigger fingers. The T-Shirt thing, etc.. is just a ridiculous idea... (see below). Edit: I just caught where you said "spent brass in a holster" Did you laugh while typing that? Tell me how brass would defy gravity, and hangout near the trigger portion of the holster, rather than fall to the bottom of the holster (thus preventing the gun from properly holstering. That's even more ridiculous than the T-shirt.

I use a Safe-T-Block on my Glocks to keep the trigger from being snagged on clothing or the edge of a leather holster.
I know some will jump on and say that is not needed, etc., etc., just saying what I use and what makes me comfortable.
If you are not familiar with the Safe-T-Block it is a triangular piece of plastic that fits behind the trigger to keep it from being depressed and can be pushed out when ready to fire.

So because you fear negligently hitting the trigger while reholstering, you violate gun safety laws by shoving crap in the trigger guard....

Makes a lot of sense. The Dum-Y-Blok is a bigger risk to people than most realize. If you want a gun w/ a safety because the Glock trigger is scary... just get a gun w/ a safety. There's a lot of them out there.

As for the "T-shirt causing an ND".... I have taken an unloaded Glock, and intentionally tried to make a T-shirt cause a gun to go off. I was cigarette rolling the bottom of my shirt and putting it through my trigger guard, then trying to holster, and the trigger still didn't move, and no way would the gun holster.

IGF

IndyGunFreak
06-17-2011, 07:25
Easy solution: don't buy bargain basement leather holsters. A Milt Sparks or Kramer will never degrade that way, and of course it's impossible for Kydex to do that.

First, Galco makes quality gear.. I don't think this is the fault of Galco holsters for one second. It may not be custom stuff like Kramer or Sparks, but they make good gear.

What everyone also fails to point out when posting that link to support their ideas, is he knew for quite some time that that piece of leather was in the trigger guard. Personally, I don't think he was even using the proper holster for that gun, I'm of the belief it was likely modified by soaking/reforming.... but he didn't admit that, so I don't know for sure.

I canít say I didnít know the crease had been formed in the holster.


This is not an ND caused by a holster, this is an ND caused by an idiot.

Bill Lumberg
06-17-2011, 07:56
Correct indy. All leather isn't equal, but galco isn't any more likely to degrage under improper care, use or storage than the customs. First, Galco makes quality gear.. I don't think this is the fault of Galco holsters for one second. It may not be custom stuff like Kramer or Sparks, but they make good gear.

What everyone also fails to point out when posting that link to support their ideas, is he knew for quite some time that that piece of leather was in the trigger guard. Personally, I don't think he was even using the proper holster for that gun, I'm of the belief it was likely modified by soaking/reforming.... but he didn't admit that, so I don't know for sure.




This is not an ND caused by a holster, this is an ND caused by an idiot.

cfr
06-17-2011, 08:03
Why carry it at all?


Agreed.




Instead of making holstering your carry weapon so overly complicated, just use common sense and practice... *sigh*

Not sure if this was directed at me or the other guy? If me, I dont think wanting the right holster to do this with is over complicating.

cfr
06-17-2011, 08:15
Makes a lot of sense. The Dum-Y-Blok is a bigger risk to people than most realize. If you want a gun w/ a safety because the Glock trigger is scary... just get a gun w/ a safety. There's a lot of them out there.

IGF

I agree -- having to manually manipulate something on the trigger to enable it to fire simply makes no sense to me. To each his own I guess.

As for the built in safety, (I know this will enrage some of the purists) but I think this is where Spingfield got it right. I personally dont ever want to need to manaully do anything to fire a pistol. But I think the grip safety is the best of all worlds. Nothing manual required to fire, reholster ND's can be greatly mitigated by using a different grip technique when reholstering (hand off the grip safety).

Unfortunately, those "little guns" are built like a brick, and bigger than I want to carry. If Glock ever puts that safety on their weapons, I'll be the first to sign up.

Yes, I know I'll get flamed for this. :wow:

SevenSixtyTwo
06-17-2011, 08:39
I prefer my Beretta Cougar for IWB carry for the concerns listed here. Its easy thumb brush safety/de-cocker, 12-14 lb DA trigger and hammer fire with mechanical drop safety is very reassuring. But it's bulky and heavy. The G26 is easy to carry. So I too holster the gun in a Kydex IWB holster, slip the holstered gun in my waistband at 1 O'clock and remove it the same way. I tend to worry about the slightest possibility of more surgeries and hospital stays and long recoveries so I try to avoid it as much as possible. To say it CAN'T happen if you're careful is a slippery slope to overconfidence, complacency and the ER. It does occasionally happen to even the most highly trained professionals with just the slightest lack of attention.

IndyGunFreak
06-17-2011, 08:41
I agree -- having to manually manipulate something on the trigger to enable it to fire simply makes no sense to me. To each his own I guess.

As for the built in safety, (I know this will enrage some of the purists) but I think this is where Spingfield got it right. I personally dont ever want to need to manaully do anything to fire a pistol. But I think the grip safety is the best of all worlds. Nothing manual required to fire, reholster ND's can be greatly mitigated by using a different grip technique when reholstering (hand off the grip safety).

Unfortunately, those "little guns" are built like a brick, and bigger than I want to carry. If Glock ever puts that safety on their weapons, I'll be the first to sign up.

Yes, I know I'll get flamed for this. :wow:

FWIW, I'm not sure why you'd get flamed, you've found what works for you... it's better than you trying to find some crazy aftermarket gimmick that probably makes things "less" safe.

I don't have a problem w/ safeties at all... as long as folks don't get complacent because of them. I have XD's in addition to Glocks, and also really like them.

I'm gonna guess just from your post, that even w/ an XD, if you had a holster protruding into the trigger guard like that, you'd get a new holster. Also I'm gonna guess, that because your gun has a grip safety, you wouldn't twirl it around on your finger like Robo-Cop.

Safety is probably 98% mindset, and about 2% equipment.

IGF

IndyGunFreak
06-17-2011, 08:43
It does occasionally happen to even the most highly trained professionals with just the slightest lack of attention.

Of course it does... but ask those same "highly trained professionals" that it happens to.... "Why did this happen" and if they're honest, they'll simply reply they screwed up. If they try some "it just went off" crap... Then I'd highly doubt they are "highly trained".

IGF

cfr
06-17-2011, 08:48
I'm gonna guess just from your post, that even w/ an XD, if you had a holster protruding into the trigger guard like that, you'd get a new holster. Also I'm gonna guess, that because your gun has a grip safety, you wouldn't twirl it around on your finger like Robo-Cop.

Safety is probably 98% mindset, and about 2% equipment.

IGF

Yes, yes, and yes.

IndyGunFreak
06-17-2011, 09:05
Yes, yes, and yes.

Well, thats a relief.. :)

By the way, for "heavy nylon"... Check out Bianchi Holsters, and see if they have something to your liking.

IGF

SevenSixtyTwo
06-17-2011, 09:41
Of course it does... but ask those same "highly trained professionals" that it happens to.... "Why did this happen" and if they're honest, they'll simply reply they screwed up. If they try some "it just went off" crap... Then I'd highly doubt they are "highly trained".

IGF

That's the point though. We're all human and therefor capable of screwing up. Even highly trained people can become complacent and careless. I don't know how easy it would be for a Glock to go off on it's own. I believe they're second to none in reliability but it's still a mechanical device designed, made and built by humans so it's not totally out of the question that a half cocked striker fire pistol could have a malfunction and drop it's spring loaded firing pin against the primer.

barstoolguru
06-17-2011, 10:04
Machismo, or machoism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macho), is prominently exhibited or excessive masculinity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masculinity).[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machismo#cite_note-0) As an attitude, machismo ranges from a personal sense of virility (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virility) to a more extreme male chauvinism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male_chauvinism).
The trait may be seen as the product of runaway evolution (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Runaway_evolution), as Frits Staal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frits_Staal) notes

never think you are above an AD/ND, safety never takes a day off

IndyGunFreak
06-17-2011, 10:06
That's the point though. We're all human and therefor capable of screwing up. Even highly trained people can become complacent and careless. I don't know how easy it would be for a Glock to go off on it's own. I believe they're second to none in reliability but it's still a mechanical device designed, made and built by humans so it's not totally out of the question that a half cocked striker fire pistol could have a malfunction and drop it's spring loaded firing pin against the primer.

If you understand how they're designed, it can't happen. The Lack of attention you speak of, can happen with any gun, be it a Glock, or a gun w/ a safety. This is a shooter issue, again, MINDSET.

Has nothing to do w/ Machismo.

H&K 4 LIFE
06-18-2011, 05:55
No one ever won a gunfight by being the first back into the holster. :cool:

Seraph
06-18-2011, 06:58
No one ever won a gunfight by being the first back into the holster. :cool:

That's probably very true. BTW, I love your signature.

Misty02
06-18-2011, 09:36
Reholstering before police arrive? My thought had always been to put a weapon on the ground before they arrived, and I had never even considered reholstering. This would be due to adreneline, shaking, etc. Is this what most recommend?

My finger isnt the concern, clothing is. I've been carrying IWB for a few years now, but that was a Keltec P11. The trigger is much heavier/ longer on those than a Glock. I suppose it couldn't hurt to do this exercise just for kicks though.

I also know that a quality holster would be ideal. Unfortunately that is out for a while because of this (http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1348670). Until then I'm stuck with my $12.00 Uncle Mikes.

If ever involved in a SD shooting (praying that I never am) my preference would be to keep the firearm on hand until the responding officers arrive (preferably once their own weapons are drawn) just in case there are unidentified accomplices around or the person on the ground somehow recovers.

.

slickt0mmy
06-18-2011, 09:46
For the first couple years I carried my Keltec, I used a bulky leather holster. A few months ago I tried the Uncle Mikes, and the difference was huge. I'd almost rather have an ND than go back to something totally uncomfortable like that. :wow: Kydex holsters dont look much more cozy than bulky leather does (could be wrong, feel free to correct me).

Can anyone recommend a thick nylon IWB holster? Something thicker than a standard Uncle Mikes, but more flexible than thick leather? I was at a store tonight and saw some Uncle Mikes Law Enforcement holsters that are about what Im looking for, but they were OWB.

Thanks!

The leather/kydex hybrids like CBST or MTAC work fantastically. But if you're really set on Nylon, you may like the Remora holsters. I don't have experience with them but I've heard nothing but praise. The "no clip" thing kinda freaks me out but apparently it's not a problem.

cfr
06-18-2011, 11:00
Galco makes a thin leather holster I may go look at later as well.

Deaf Smith
06-18-2011, 14:42
Ever notice Glocks are very heavily used in IDPA yet never a ND with one holstering? In fact for most stages you have to rack a round in the chamber and THEN holster it before the stage.

So why no NDs there?

Proper procedure, that's why, that and holsters designed to cover the trigger guard and not collapse on the weapon when it is holstered.

I use a IWB kyndex holster all the time in IDPA. Not one problem.

But as HK4Life said,

No one ever won a gunfight by being the first back into the holster.

And that is a fact. Take your time and holster it correctly.

Deaf

tag
06-18-2011, 17:51
Easy solution: don't buy bargain basement leather holsters. A Milt Sparks or Kramer will never degrade that way, and of course it's impossible for Kydex to do that.


Of course, this is completely incorrect. ANY leather holster will degrade over time, getting soft and pliable. When your gear stops working.....replace it. It's just that simple.

dugo
06-19-2011, 14:45
I've always told myself I wouldn't carry a Glock IWB without a NY trigger on it. However, I just got a G27 for IWB carry, and really dont see myself doing that.

I spoke to a friend that carries a Glock, and what he does is takes the holster out of his pant, puts the Glock in it, and then puts the whole thing in his pants. This makes sense to me, and seems to really mitigate the risk quite a bit.

I'm not a LEO, and would therefore never need to unholster my Glock to detain someone, then need to reholster it.

I did this a bunch of times yesetrday while shooting my new Glock. While its a pain, it seems like really good practice. It may not be as cool looking as "I'm the only one here that can handle a Glock fou-tay"..., but I'm willing to take that chance. :cool:

Thoughts?

Sounds good to me. Tag was right that any holster will degrade over time, but some will certainly last longer than others, and some good ones can last a really (!) long time. Depends on how you use it, as well.

After a while, taking the holster off can become a pain if your holster set-up doesn't make it easy, but to the extent you use this method, it'll surely lessen the possibility of this kind of discharge. You might want to practice some reholstering the "normal" ways, also, though --- 'cause, well, you never know. For that, you'll still need to make sure your holster stays in good shape and working the way it is supposed to. Always best, anyway.

cfr
06-29-2011, 09:46
Galco makes a thin leather holster I may go look at later as well.

I wound up going with this, it seems to be the safer than the UM holster I have.

IndyGunFreak
06-29-2011, 10:16
I wound up going with this, it seems to be the safer than the UM holster I have.

What's the model on the Galco? The one in the link w/ the retard and the ND?

cfr
06-29-2011, 10:27
What's the model on the Galco? The one in the link w/ the retard and the ND?

LOL, no its not that one. Mine is very similar to this (http://www.usgalco.com/HolsterPG3.asp?ProductID=3236&GunID=51). I only carry a combined total of about 15 - 20 hours per week (excluding vacations, camping, etc.), so I think it will be a while until I see a crease like that guy. When I do I'll get a new one.

IndyGunFreak
06-29-2011, 15:36
LOL, no its not that one. Mine is very similar to this (http://www.usgalco.com/HolsterPG3.asp?ProductID=3236&GunID=51). I only carry a combined total of about 15 - 20 hours per week (excluding vacations, camping, etc.), so I think it will be a while until I see a crease like that guy. When I do I'll get a new one.

My guess is, you won't see a crease like that period. I'm firmly convinced the DS referenced in that article did something to that holster.

cfr
06-29-2011, 15:39
Me too.

ScottieG59
07-03-2011, 01:20
I have carried IWB for years and most of the time, I remove the holster, reholster the handgun and they put it in place. It is rare for me to do otherwise. It is just too easy to get the trigger caught on something.

DOrth
07-03-2011, 05:56
Why carry with one in the chamber though. Odds of a ND are much higher than actually needing to use it.

You've GOT to be joking, right? Research has shown that US citizens use firearms, usually handguns 2.5 MILLION times a year to stop criminal attacks. If only 10% of these were CC that's 250,000 in a year, which far greater than the total number of ND, or UD (unintentional as used by all of my LE firearms trainers).

The odds are much higher that you may need to draw your pistol for SD than have a ND/UD, and when you need it it had better be ready to fire immediately without having to chamber a round.

You may not have to fire immediately depending on the situation, but if you do you're better off sending a round into the ground in front of the goblin making it harder for him/her to accurately fire at you. If the goblin is 10' or closer (which is the case in 85% of ALL SD shootings) then the chances are you'll hit them in the lower abdomen.

If you carry a striker fired pistol in a kydex holster and train yourself (by rote with an empty gun) to re-holster keeping your index finger above the trigger guard you will do it each and every time without even thinking about it. Use your elbow to hold any clothing out of the way (not that clothing will pull the trigger on any striker fired pistol I've ever handled).

It's all about training, training and more training.

federali
07-03-2011, 06:51
Having worked for a holster manufacturer following my LE retirement, I'm aware that unintentional discharges while holstering are caused, not by the holster but by individuals suffering from recto-cranial interface. We live in a sue everybody world and if we happen to blow a hole in our foot, or take ourselves out of the gene pool, how could it possibly be our fault?

But, and it's a big but, an open thumb break snap is usually small enough to enter the trigger guard while holstering. There were holster related ADs during revolver days when occasionally, someone holstered a cocked revolver, got caught up in the thumb break and managed to exert the 2.5 pounds necessary to discharge the weapon. There are also cases of individuals holstering with their finger on the trigger. Their finger got caught up on the holster, causing the gun to discharge.

With IWB holsters, I do prefer to remove the holster from my person to holster. However, an on-duty officer has a different situation. Most departments require one-handed reholstering for situations where that officer is struggling with someone and deadly force is not justified.

hikerpaddler
07-03-2011, 07:03
The odds of a permitee needing their weapon for defense are so small, it is especially important to use proper handling and safety practices, otherwise the risk and benefit darn near cancel each other out for a ccw'er. Safe and a clear risk mitigator when done right.

Warp
07-03-2011, 12:15
If ever involved in a SD shooting (praying that I never am) my preference would be to keep the firearm on hand until the responding officers arrive (preferably once their own weapons are drawn) just in case there are unidentified accomplices around or the person on the ground somehow recovers.


I tend to think somewhat along these lines as well. Depending on the situation, location, etc, I could see having a phone in one hand and gun in the other...with the gun pointed in an appropriate direction of course...informing dispatch of my location and predicament and all that...then placing the firearm on the ground when they are 'around the corner'...and stepping back/into the open with hands as high as I can get them upon actual arrival. Bonus points for waving :wavey: them over.





Oh yeah, the original topic. I holster my loaded Glocks, IWB, without removing the holster. Rule #3 is in full effect, off hand lifts shirt up and out of the way, visual check of the holster before inserting the gun...

hikerpaddler
07-04-2011, 17:58
There is simply no reason to have to remove the holster to, well, holster. If you need to do that, there's a problem with you, the holster, or your belt.

barstoolguru
07-04-2011, 18:13
FWIW, I'm not sure why you'd get flamed, you've found what works for you... it's better than you trying to find some crazy aftermarket gimmick that probably makes things "less" safe.

I don't have a problem w/ safeties at all... as long as folks don't get complacent because of them. I have XD's in addition to Glocks, and also really like them.

I'm gonna guess just from your post, that even w/ an XD, if you had a holster protruding into the trigger guard like that, you'd get a new holster. Also I'm gonna guess, that because your gun has a grip safety, you wouldn't twirl it around on your finger like Robo-Cop.

Safety is probably 98% mindset, and about 2% equipment.

IGF

this guy is going to pop a blood vessel in his for head when you mention SAF-T-BLOK .............lol

IndyGunFreak
07-04-2011, 22:15
this guy is going to pop a blood vessel in his for head when you mention SAF-T-BLOK .............lol

Trying to bait me I see... That post you referenced, had nothing to do w/ the Dum-Y-Blok.

IGF

BailRecoveryAgent
07-05-2011, 09:58
Indy's right, there's no amount of dummy proof devices that can't be overridden by human stupidity.

barstoolguru
07-05-2011, 10:50
Indy's right, there's no amount of dummy proof devices that can't be overridden by human stupidity.

well if that's the case we might as well get rid of seat belts, spare tires, safety razors, OSHA, guard rails and pencil erasers because you canít stop people from being stupid OR having a stupid moment and yes this includes the macho men that think it will never happen to them

99% of guns donít come with some kind of a safety because they donít work

and to say that any thing that makes a firearm just a little safer is a bad thing is just wrong as long as it's a personal choice

BailRecoveryAgent
07-05-2011, 10:57
well if that's the case we might as well get rid of seat belts, spare tires, safety razors, OSHA, guard rails and pencil erasers because you canít stop people from being stupid OR having a stupid moment and yes this includes the macho men that think it will never happen to them

99% of guns donít come with some kind of a safety because they donít work

and to say that any thing that makes a firearm just a little safer is a bad thing is just wrong as long as it's a personal choice

Once again, you have failed miserably in your attempt to sell others who know better on the dumm y blok by using ridiculous comparisons to other items like seat belts and guard rails.

IndyGunFreak
07-05-2011, 10:59
well if that's the case we might as well get rid of seat belts, spare tires, safety razors, OSHA, guard rails and pencil erasers because you canít stop people from being stupid OR having a stupid moment and yes this includes the macho men that think it will never happen to them

99% of guns donít come with some kind of a safety because they donít work

and to say that any thing that makes a firearm just a little safer is a bad thing is just wrong as long as it's a personal choice

Are you trying to invade another thread w/ your nonsense? A safety belt is nothing like a Dum-Y-Blok.

A safety belt prevents you from being injured, because of something you HAVE NO CONTROL OVER (ie, other idiot drivers).. Of course a side benefit is, if you do something stupid, you're also protected. I'm not overly concerned about my driving, I'm concerned about the knuckleheads driving around me, thats why I wear a Safety Belt. Every single example you gave up there, is just totally ridiculous. A spare tire?.. Really? How did you draw that one up? I can see I'm gonna have to stop reading your posts, because I feel dumber every time I do...

Since nobody but me unholsters my guns from my waist, I don't need a Dum-Y-Blok.

IGF

barstoolguru
07-05-2011, 11:09
Once again, you have failed miserably in your attempt to sell others who know better on the dumm y blok by using ridiculous comparisons to other items like seat belts and guard rails.

for one thing I am not selling any one on anything..... if and when it happens I am not the one that has to deal with the aftermath.

why is it ridiculous to compare all of the things I mention to a saf-t-blok, all are devises that are there to help correct bad judgment momentsÖ. Just stating a fact

BailRecoveryAgent
07-05-2011, 12:06
for one thing I am not selling any one on anything..... if and when it happens I am not the one that has to deal with the aftermath.

why is it ridiculous to compare all of the things I mention to a saf-t-blok, all are devises that are there to help correct bad judgment momentsÖ. Just stating a fact

Because like Indy pointed out, seat belts not only prevent you from your own mistakes, but they protect you from other idiot drivers. The fact that you can't understand that the comparison you made between spare tires, seat belts and the dumm y block is ridiculous is quite troubling.

You pointed out in the Tex Grebner shoots himself thread that they need to make a dumm y block for the Kimbers if they don't already. A dumm y block would have been dislodged as soon as his finger swept across it, which is what you and others bragged about how easy it is to remove. He still would have shot himself in the leg even with a dumm y block, because his finger entered the trigger area when it shouldn't have, which is how the dumm y block is removed.

barstoolguru
07-05-2011, 13:55
Because like Indy pointed out, seat belts not only prevent you from your own mistakes, but they protect you from other idiot drivers. The fact that you can't understand that the comparison you made between spare tires, seat belts and the dumm y block is ridiculous is quite troubling.
are you for real, the only thing troubling is your reluctance to except the fact that the blok will aid in safety.... in this case no because there is a manual safety that he triggered with a holster that was not designed for the gun or he was trying to shoot faster that he can. look at the video and you can see he had his finger on the trigger when the gun was still partly in the holster

You pointed out in the Tex Grebner shoots himself thread that they need to make a dumm y block for the Kimbers if they don't already.it was a joke A dumm y block would have been dislodged as soon as his finger swept across it, which is what you and others bragged about how easy it is to remove. He still would have shot himself in the leg even with a dumm y block, because his finger entered the trigger area when it shouldn't have, which is how the dumm y block is removed.
Proper training should have made him not touch the trigger before a proper sight picture acquired. I can tell by your posts you have never used a saf-t-blok. When you say that you have to put your finger in the trigger area to dislodge the blok is wrong. All you have to do is place you finger across the guard and with a little pressure it pops out-NO FINGER ON THE TRIGGER

barstoolguru
07-05-2011, 14:08
Are you trying to invade another thread w/ your nonsense? A safety belt is nothing like a Dum-Y-Blok.

A safety belt prevents you from being injured, because of something you HAVE NO CONTROL OVER( YOU ARE THE MAN, THE ONLY PERSON THAT NEVER HAD AN ACCIDENT THAT WAS HIS FALT) (ie, other idiot drivers).. Of course a side benefit is, if you do something stupid, you're also protected. I'm not overly concerned about my driving, I'm concerned about the knuckleheads driving around me, thats why I wear a Safety Belt. Every single example you gave up there, is just totally ridiculous. A spare tire?.. Really? How did you draw that one up? I can see I'm gonna have to stop reading your posts, because I feel dumber every time I do...I AM GONNA MISS YOU :crying::crying::crying:

Since nobody but me unholsters my guns from my waist, I don't need a Dum-Y-Blok.

IGF

you keep a spare tire incase you hit something in the road (an accident, yes a flat is an accident, you didn't do it on Propose )

cfr
07-05-2011, 14:10
I just googled the saf-t-block. Ive never used one, but I think Id rather just go buy a pistol with a manual safety instead. True the finger isnt "on" the trigger to disengage, but its purdy darn close. :wow:

Just my opinion.

Edit: While I have no desire to use one of these, I wouldnt fault anyone else for it.

barstoolguru
07-05-2011, 14:19
I just googled the saf-t-block. Ive never used one, but I think Id rather just go buy a pistol with a manual safety instead. True the finger isnt "on" the trigger to disengage, but its purdy darn close. :wow:

Just my opinion.

Edit: While I have no desire to use one of these, I wouldnt fault anyone else for it.

just to catch you up on another thread I had asked about them because I carry in a belly band up around my chest and the angle of the draw is why I bought one and use it.

cfr
07-05-2011, 14:24
just to catch you up on another thread I had asked about them because I carry in a belly band up around my chest and the angle of the draw is why I bought one and use it.

If I carried that way, I may reevaluate my stance.

BailRecoveryAgent
07-05-2011, 14:42
are you for real, the only thing troubling is your reluctance to except the fact that the blok will aid in safety.... in this case no because there is a manual safety that he triggered with a holster that was not designed for the gun or he was trying to shoot faster that he can. look at the video and you can see he had his finger on the trigger when the gun was still partly in the holster

Proper training should have made him not touch the trigger before a proper sight picture acquired. I can tell by your posts you have never used a saf-t-blok. When you say that you have to put your finger in the trigger area to dislodge the blok is wrong. All you have to do is place you finger across the guard and with a little pressure it pops out-NO FINGER ON THE TRIGGER

<----Quite real. Reluctant, no. That would imply I was undecided about the dumm y block. He was in fact using a holster designed for that gun. Once again, you fail miserably at attempting to prove your point. No I have not used the dumm y block, I have devised a method of not placing my finger on the trigger until I plan to fire or am pointing the muzzle at something I'm willing to destroy. Placing your finger across the trigger guard to pop out a ridiculous gimmick item marketed to fearful noobs is hardly better than placing your finger inside the trigger guard.

By all means, keep enjoying your fads and gimmicks that give you a false sense of "aiding in safety". Afterall, if you just have to sweep your finger across it, how will that keep the gun from being discharged after you've swept across it and stuck your finger on the trigger and pressed it?:dunno:

barstoolguru
07-05-2011, 14:57
<----Quite real. Reluctant, no. That would imply I was undecided about the dumm y block. He was in fact using a holster designed for that gun. Once again, you fail miserably at attempting to prove your point. No I have not used the dumm y block, I have devised a method of not placing my finger on the trigger until I plan to fire or am pointing the muzzle at something I'm willing to destroy. Placing your finger across the trigger guard to pop out a ridiculous gimmick item marketed to fearful noobs is hardly better than placing your finger inside the trigger guard.

By all means, keep enjoying your fads and gimmicks that give you a false sense of "aiding in safety". Afterall, if you just have to sweep your finger across it, how will that keep the gun from being discharged after you've swept across it and stuck your finger on the trigger and pressed it?:dunno:


well I am glad we agree on something that is..... you know nothing about what you are talking about :rofl:so let me ask when you pull you gun do you not place your finger over the trigger guard... sure you do so when this happens you pop the blok at the same time

barstoolguru
07-05-2011, 15:01
If I carried that way, I may reevaluate my stance.

it one thing to shoot yourself in the leg but an AD in the chest or someone elses would be fatel

cfr
07-05-2011, 15:07
it one thing to shoot yourself in the leg but an AD in the chest or someone elses would be fatel

Of course either would not be ideal.

IndyGunFreak
07-05-2011, 15:52
I just googled the saf-t-block. Ive never used one, but I think Id rather just go buy a pistol with a manual safety instead. True the finger isnt "on" the trigger to disengage, but its purdy darn close. :wow:

Just my opinion.

Edit: While I have no desire to use one of these, I wouldnt fault anyone else for it.

cfr, my biggest problem w/ the Dum-Y-Blok, is I believe it is actually LESS safe, while being described as a safety device. If it really was MORE safe, then I agree, it would be up to the user (even if it's less safe, it's up to the user).

If this was not marketed as a safety gimmick (because all it is, is a gimmick), I would not have a problem with it.

If you want a gun that has a safety, thats fine, get a gun w/ a safety. As mentioned, there are a LOT of high quality firearms out there, that have properly built in manual safeties.... Adding some gimmick to a firearm, that really all it does is excuse poor gun handling, is just terrifying to me.

IGF

IndyGunFreak
07-05-2011, 15:53
it one thing to shoot yourself in the leg but an AD in the chest or someone elses would be fatel

Would a Dum-Y-Blok prevent either of these? You can't say w/ any certainty they would, just like I can't say with any certainty they couldn't. Stop using silly examples, and try to at least make a factual argument. As a side note, what other safety rules would the shooter be violating, if he shot someone in the chest w/ an ND?

1. Finger off the trigger till the gun is ready to be fired
2. All guns pointed in a safe direction,

You think a gun owner dumb enough to violate the two most basic gun safety rules, wouldn't figure out a way to get around a stupid piece of plastic behind the trigger?

It's all gonna depend on the knucklehead holding the gun....

IGF

barstoolguru
07-05-2011, 16:20
Would a Dum-Y-Blok prevent either of these? You can't say w/ any certainty they would, just like I can't say with any certainty they couldn't. Stop using silly examples, and try to at least make a factual argument.

It's all gonna depend on the knucklehead holding the gun....

IGF

what I can say with certenty is that you will keep trying to prove me wrong :tongueout: now back to the subject will the blok prevent an AD.... like the valley girl said " for shure, for shure" ....... and I have posted nothing but facts........ sorry if they hurt your Machismo :rofl:

Warp
07-05-2011, 16:54
well if that's the case we might as well get rid of seat belts, spare tires, safety razors, OSHA, guard rails and pencil erasers because you canít stop people from being stupid OR having a stupid moment and yes this includes the macho men that think it will never happen to them



Are you serious?

IndyGunFreak
07-05-2011, 18:13
Are you serious?

Unfortunately, if you've read his other posts on this subject, he is.

IGF

IndyGunFreak
07-05-2011, 18:16
what I can say with certenty is that you will keep trying to prove me wrong :tongueout: now back to the subject will the blok prevent an AD.... like the valley girl said " for shure, for shure" ....... and I have posted nothing but facts........ sorry if they hurt your Machismo :rofl:

I'm not the one here claiming the Dum-Y-Blok fixes these things, you are, so the burden of proof is on you. My argument is if an idiot is stupid enough to negligently point a loaded firearm at someone w/o a Dum-Y-Blok, he will do it w/ a Dum-Y-Blok as well, and the Dum-Y-Blok will not stop him from killing or injuring someone at some point. Why? Because he is not SAFE. I use the same rationale with thumb safeties. If the user is not safe, it doesn't matter how many safeties a gun has, they will have an ND and hurt or kill someone.

You've posted nothing but facts? All you've done is post links to stories of ND's, where the holder of the firearm was completely and 100% negligent. In your other thread, you claim because some idiot knew his holster was junk, and caused an ND, if he had a Dum-Y-Blok, it would have been prevented... No, had he replaced his holster when he KNEW it was invading the trigger guard, it would have been prevented.

I'm not trying to prove you wrong, you've done a great job of making your argument look foolish w/o my help.

Glock21sf-miami
07-05-2011, 19:01
You may have to draw fast but you will NEVER be in a hurry to reholster... Take your time, know your equipment and do it with care.

Warp
07-05-2011, 19:05
You may have to draw fast but you will NEVER be in a hurry to reholster... Take your time, know your equipment and do it with care.

'Never say never'

It sure is extremely unlikely, though.

barstoolguru
07-05-2011, 19:14
I'm not the one here claiming the Dum-Y-Blok fixes these things, you are, so the burden of proof is on you. My argument is if an idiot is stupid enough to negligently point a loaded firearm at someone(The discussion is not about if some idiot is stupidly pointing a gun it is about pulling it, handling it and holstering with a sense of safety ) w/o a Dum-Y-Blok, he will do it w/ a Dum-Y-Blok as well, and the Dum-Y-Blok will not stop him from killing or injuring someone at some point. Why? Because he is not SAFE. I use the same rationale with thumb safeties. If the user is not safe, it doesn't matter how many safeties a gun has, they will have an ND and hurt or kill someone.

You've posted nothing but facts? All you've done is post links to stories of ND's, where the holder of the firearm was completely and 100% negligent. In your other thread, you claim because some idiot knew his holster was junk, ( he knew it was old but never said it was junk. link below to prove my point ) and caused an ND, if he had a Dum-Y-Blok, it would have been prevented...No,yes had he replaced his holster when he KNEW it was invading the trigger guard, it would have been prevented.

I'm not trying to prove you wrong, you've done a great job of making your argument look foolish w/o my help. you have yet to prove anything... so far all person options show me one article that says anything you have said yet?


You missed your calling... you should have been the inventor of twister because you seem to be good at it. Lets back up a bit I never claimed that the blok is going to stop someone from shooting any one. It will stop someone from in the heat of the moment from pulling the trigger by accident. There are a lot of us that are not super human like you and can control our every muscle and involuntary twitch when under pressure!!!!!
The difference between me and you is that I admit I am capable of making a mistake and you are not
http://www.itstactical.com/warcom/firearms/safety-warning-worn-leather-holsters-can-cause-accidental-discharges/comment-page-1/

if he had a saf-t-blok in his gun this could have been prevented.

IndyGunFreak
07-05-2011, 19:17
you have yet to prove anything... so far all person options show me one article that says anything you have said yet?


You missed your calling... you should have been the inventor of twister because you seem to be good at it. Lets back up a bit I never claimed that the blok is going to stop someone from shooting any one. It will stop someone from in the heat of the moment from pulling the trigger by accident. There are a lot of us that are not super human like you and can control our every muscle and involuntary twitch when under pressure!!!!!
The difference between me and you is that I admit I am capable of making a mistake and you are not
http://www.itstactical.com/warcom/firearms/safety-warning-worn-leather-holsters-can-cause-accidental-discharges/comment-page-1/

if he had a saf-t-blok in his gun this could have been prevented.

You are like talking to a brick wall.. I have never once said I'm not capable of making a mistake, of course I am.. but I'm not making my gun LESS SAFE, in an attempt to make me "feel" more safe.

SAFETY IS A MINDSET... IF YOU ARE NOT SAFE, YOU WILL NOT BE SAFE W/ A DUM-Y-BLOK. IF YOU ARE SAFE, YOU WILL BE SAFE WITH OR WITHOUT A DUM-Y-BLOK.

I'm done here.. You're on pace to be the only person on my ignore list. You read what you want, rather than what is said. Everything I have said, I have backed up. Everything you have said, you post a link to an article about an idiot who KNEW he needed to replace a holster because of a safety concern, and failed to do so.

Warp
07-05-2011, 19:21
I never claimed that the blok is going to stop someone from shooting any one. It will stop someone from in the heat of the moment from pulling the trigger by accident.

lol

Apparently accidentally (negligently) discharging your pistol carries 0% chance of shooting somebody now.

Ruggles
07-05-2011, 19:32
Wow the ole Safe-T-Block debate comes alive again. I thought it was dead and buried :rofl:

Use it if you want, do not use it if you choose not too. Calling it names (with dumb or the like word inserted) to imply anyone who uses it is somehow intelligently inferior for doing so seems a wee bit immature. I have not heard anybody changing a name in that manner since junior high school. I mean that is not exactly an intellectual way to debate a subject :tongueout:

barstoolguru
07-05-2011, 19:52
Wow the ole Safe-T-Block debate comes alive again. I thought it was dead and buried :rofl:

Use it if you want, do not use it if you choose not too. Calling it names (with dumb or the like word inserted) to imply anyone who uses it is somehow intelligently inferior for doing so seems a wee bit immature. I have not heard anybody changing a name in that manner since junior high school. I mean that is not exactly an intellectual way to debate a subject :tongueout:

he means well he is just having a moment. I am big enough to over look it. I am just waiting for him to prove a point with some facts and not just an option. he like so many other twist the truth in his favor but I think I am winning him over.......lmfao.... he is probably on line ordering one right now

Warp
07-05-2011, 19:59
Wow the ole Safe-T-Block debate comes alive again. I thought it was dead and buried :rofl:

That darn rule #3 is just so hard sometimes. Or so it seems.

IndyGunFreak
07-05-2011, 20:36
he means well he is just having a moment. I am big enough to over look it. I am just waiting for him to prove a point with some facts and not just an option. he like so many other twist the truth in his favor but I think I am winning him over.......lmfao.... he is probably on line ordering one right now

Please point out what I have twisted.. I have given my opinion on why the device is unsafe REPEATEDLY. Both in this thread, and in your last thread.

I've asked you to tell me how it enhances safety, and all you do is link me to a story about some idiot who KNEW he should have replaced his holster, and didn't... so he had an ND...

Or tell me how it could keep someone from NEGLIGENTLY shooting someone in the chest, despite the fact for that to happen, they would have to be violating at least 3 safety rules. So I say again, they are incompetent enough to not follow 3 basic safety rules, yet are competent enough to operate a device like the Dum-Y-Blok(tm), while under stress.

Sorry charlie, your argument doesn't add up... I'm gonna move along now.. cfr, sorry your thread got dumped on.. I suspect this was barstools' motive for coming here, cuz his thread died.

BailRecoveryAgent
07-05-2011, 21:00
so let me ask when you pull you gun do you not place your finger over the trigger guard... sure you do so when this happens you pop the blok at the same time

No I do not. I index my finger along the frame just underneath the slide, not across the trigger guard.

See here.
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ3zH_Lqrt13i4igl_L9E3gCEHSTP5m0DDKjT4CGY_bbjq__3pIqA&t=1

barstoolguru
07-05-2011, 22:01
Please point out what I have twisted.. I have given my opinion no facts just options.... you must have one somewhere? on why the device is unsafe REPEATEDLY. Both in this thread, and in your last thread.

I've asked you to tell me how it enhances safety, and all you do is link me to a story about some idiot who KNEW he should have replaced his holster, and didn't I didn't read where he said that did you? ... so he had an ND...that was one and you know there are a bunch more

Or tell me how it could keep someone from NEGLIGENTLY shooting someone in the chest, despite the fact for that to happen, they would have to be violating at least 3 safety rules. So I say again, they are incompetent enough to not follow 3 basic safety rules, yet are competent enough to operate a device like the Dum-Y-Blok(tm), while under stress.so removing a saf-t-blok is more stressfull then say unlocking the thumb safety...really? for some reason you think taking out an extra 1/2 second to remove a blok is going to get you killed. lots of talk from someone that NEVER used one

Sorry charlie, your argument doesn't add up... I'm gonna move along now.. cfr, sorry your thread got dumped on.. I suspect this was barstools' motive for coming here I was making a joke , cuz his thread died.
Are you for real, I made a comment and you went off the deep end with it! You want me to feel guilty............ hmmm.....not today; maybe tomorrow

http://policelink.monster.com/videos/videos/4064-accidental-discharge
a saf-t-blok would have helped her too

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZ1qMUmsTy8
here too I bet he wishes he had one

IndyGunFreak
07-05-2011, 23:08
That's it, you again fail to address the issue, and instead point to videos of CLEAR NEGLIGENCE that would have happened in spite of a Dum-Y-Blok

To the ignore list you go... Enjoy your stay, you're the only one there so you'll have the place all to yourself.

barstoolguru
07-05-2011, 23:20
That's it, you again fail to address the issue, and instead point to videos of CLEAR NEGLIGENCE that would have happened in spite of a Dum-Y-Blok

To the ignore list you go... Enjoy your stay, you're the only one there so you'll have the place all to yourself.

I am all broke up inside with such crushing news

cfr
07-06-2011, 07:59
Does this mean it will stop??? :crying:

barstoolguru
07-06-2011, 08:43
Does this mean it will stop??? :crying:

maybe here for now but this is one of those subjets that never seem to have an ending because as much as people enjoy a glock for what it is (a great gun) it has a very scarry side. any one that handles a gun for any amount of time will have a AD but to get hurt or hurt someone else is something that will hang on you like a cheap suit in the rain

Bill Lumberg
07-06-2011, 08:44
Correct. This is coincidentally where the release for a serpa is. Right where the finger is supposed to be- indexed, roundabout where the takedown lever is.

No I do not. I index my finger along the frame just underneath the slide, not across the trigger guard.

See here.
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ3zH_Lqrt13i4igl_L9E3gCEHSTP5m0DDKjT4CGY_bbjq__3pIqA&t=1

IndyGunFreak
07-06-2011, 09:13
Does this mean it will stop??? :crying:

I'm always up for a good debate, when someone can actually debate. bartool, is simply not capable of debating. Granted, he's taken a difficult position, I will give him that.

I have told him repeatedly, in this thread and another thread, why I have a problem with the Dum-Y-Blok. Why I believe it makes things less safe, etc.. All he does, is keep posting links to where shooters are absolute idiots, and having ND's, or not replacing holsters when they KNEW they should have.

It becomes a bit like a Dog chasing its tail...

IGF

BailRecoveryAgent
07-06-2011, 09:44
Correct. This is coincidentally where the release for a serpa is. Right where the finger is supposed to be- indexed, roundabout where the takedown lever is.

Firearm handling 101, sadly some here have flunked that course it seems.

barstoolguru
07-06-2011, 10:30
I'm always up for a good debate, when someone can actually debate. bartool, is simply not capable of debating. Granted, he's taken a difficult position, I will give him that.

I have told him repeatedly, in this thread and another thread, why I have a problem with the Dum-Y-Blok(All in theory and never any physical proof of whyÖ. Sometimes things get lost when you have 20 people on you at one time) . Why I believe it makes things less safe, etc.. All he does, is keep posting links to where shooters are absolute idiots, and having ND's, or not replacing holsters when they KNEW they should have.

It becomes a bit like a Dog chasing its tail...

IGF TOO BAD YOU WILL NOT SEE THIS SINCE I AM ON YOUR IGNORE LIST

quote from another blog;
Remember, there are 2 kinds of people.
1) Those that have had a negligent discharge
2) Those that are GOING to have a negligent discharge

Same here but I have posted incidents were police men dropped his firearm in a rest room and had an AD trying to stop it from hitting the floor. You keep saying with proper training they can be avoided and I say you can reduce the chances but never to zero. Something that I noticed is that the subject of AD/ND is a very hot topic on many gun forms and when you type it in the search bar........... Glock talk comes up a lot.... I wonder why.... maybe because safety is a concern of many but very few will stand up and say they use them for fear of ridicule from fellow posters

http://lapdblog.typepad.com/lapd_blog/2009/03/accidental-discharge-of-a-firearm-1.html

http://www.siouxfalls.org/News/2011/April/19/accidental_firearm_discharge

http://news.xin.msn.com/en/singapore/article_control.aspx?cp-documentid=4719783

http://forum.pafoa.org/general-2/101949-just-had-my-first-accidental-discharge.html

http://www.cavalierdaily.com/2011/04/21/student-discharges-gun/

BailRecoveryAgent
07-06-2011, 10:37
TOO BAD YOU WILL NOT SEE THIS SINCE I AM ON YOUR IGNORE LIST

http://i1108.photobucket.com/albums/h420/SBR2340/1223758586476.jpg

barstoolguru
07-06-2011, 10:50
http://i1108.photobucket.com/albums/h420/SBR2340/1223758586476.jpg

:laughabove::laughabove::laughabove::laughabove::laughabove:

IndyGunFreak
07-06-2011, 11:09
Firearm handling 101, sadly some here have flunked that course it seems.

While I'm not a fan of the Blackhawk, I totally agree. If more people passed Firearms 101, The Dum-Y-Blok would not exist.

Chowser
07-06-2011, 11:22
I don't understand why people are having issues dropping their guns while in the restroom? Why do you take your gun out of the holster to sit on the toilet?

leave it in the holster. that way, there is no chance of you dropping it. It's secured in the holster, leave it there. If you're afraid of someone in the next stall grabbing the gun, use the one on the end or don't use public restrooms.

BailRecoveryAgent
07-06-2011, 11:36
While I'm not a fan of the Blackhawk, I totally agree. If more people passed Firearms 101, The Dum-Y-Blok would not exist.

I didn't care for the Serpa holster for a few reasons, the location of the release button was only one of them, and it was mainly because I felt if someone were to go for my gun, having the release on the front would make it easier for them to release it than if the button is on the side of the holster up next to the body.

Alot of people use them and like them, it just wasn't what I was looking for in a level 2 holster.

cfr
07-06-2011, 12:24
I don't understand why people are having issues dropping their guns while in the restroom? Why do you take your gun out of the holster to sit on the toilet?

leave it in the holster. that way, there is no chance of you dropping it. It's secured in the holster, leave it there. If you're afraid of someone in the next stall grabbing the gun, use the one on the end or don't use public restrooms.

You are assuming a holster with some sort of retaining devise. I'd be willing to bet my G27 could fall out of my thin leather Galco holster while dropping my pants in preparation of a duece. Not that it would, but could.

Chowser
07-06-2011, 12:43
true, if i plan on dropping a duece, i would take off the whole holster with gun in it assuming i am carrying some type of paddle or clip holster. but if i was using a belt type holster where i feed my belt through, it usually has enough retention that i would hold the holster/gun as i lowered my pants.

that's why i've been pocket carrying lately, makes things simpler. granted, it's longer to get the gun out when i need it.

cfr
07-06-2011, 12:47
that's why i've been pocket carrying lately, makes things simpler. granted, it's longer to get the gun out when i need it.


So would you say it's more of a "duece friendly" way to carry? :rofl:

BailRecoveryAgent
07-06-2011, 13:54
So would you say it's more of a "duece friendly" way to carry? :rofl:

You need a Level "Deuce" Retention holster for that!!:rofl:

SevenSixtyTwo
07-06-2011, 15:00
If I'm sportin' appendix carry and need to drop the kids off at the pool, I'll take the holstered gun out and lay it on something in the stall. With pocket carry, I'm careful to not dump the holstered gun out of my pocket while I lower the bloomers.
I remember an instance a few years ago where a lady in the restroom at Sears I think it was, dropped her little cost effective firearm on the floor and shot the lady in the next stall right in the leg.