best quality parts to convert fixed stock to collapsable [Archive] - Glock Talk

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pal2511
06-14-2011, 01:24
I want to convert my fixed stock AR15 to collapsible stock. Who makes all the parts for a reasonable amount of money?

I was looking at this

http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=XAR6Stock

MajorD
06-14-2011, 08:23
while some are more expensive than others- regular m4 or car style telestocks can run from 40 to over 100 bucks. I myslef like VLTOR products and while they will set you back in the area of 100 bucks they are still a great stock

Poolman21
06-14-2011, 08:24
You probably won't beat that price, but if you want quality like you said, I would at least go with a magpul butt stock and an H buffer.

WayaX
06-14-2011, 08:47
I would pass on the AIM deal as it's commercial spec. Generally, though the main difference is the RE size, very few if any quality companies make quality RE's in commercial spec.

I prefer the VLTOR A5 set-up for collapsible stocks. It is expensive, however. For cheaper, get the parts from bravocompanyusa.com. If you want something that is a little less quality but cheaper, palmetto state armory has kits with magpul moe stocks. Also good is the magpul UBR.

Goodspeed(TPF)
06-14-2011, 08:52
What you are looking at will be just fine. Don't bother spending the extra money on "higher quality", you will not notice any difference with similar stocks. There are different type of stocks for different purposes that are indeed higher quality, but any similarly styled stock will perform and look the same. Enjoy.

lawman800
06-14-2011, 23:42
There is no difference in tubes and the buffer setup which is what you really need to convert the stock. You have to take out your rifle length tube, rifle buffer spring and cap and then replace those parts with any carbine length tube (I recommend milspec), and then the carbine buffer tube and cap.

Then you can buy any one of the super fancy ultra ninja tactical airborne Ranger Recon Sniper SEAL Delta Nightcrawler PJ FAC stocks from MagPul, VLTOR, or what you want to put on it and carry your tactical treats.

Palmetto State Armory has a good carbine kit. It's like $40 or so and trust me, you won't know the difference. I used their parts on my build.

pal2511
06-15-2011, 00:33
Do you have a link to the kit lawman

lawman800
06-15-2011, 01:56
These are the complete stock kits and you can play around on the AR Lower parts page to find more stuff for what you want.

http://www.palmettostatearmory.com/stock-kits.php

pal2511
06-15-2011, 03:23
Why do you think mil spec is better than commercial? More options available or what?

Deployment Solu
06-15-2011, 04:25
Choate Machine & Tool is an advertiser on this website and makes a GREAT M4 telescoping kit. There are several high end manufacturers using them. I have one on all my AR15's and AR10s that are 16" or less. They are a little bit more money, but they ae heavy duty(not heavy), have a non slip butt pad, have water tight compartments(not some plastic cap) for batteries, and the adj pins are heavier and are being used on a lot of AR10's. If any of you are interested, you can check them out at:

https://secure.riflestock.com/catalog_page_detail.cfm?recordno=1&Product_CatalogID=2938&ProductNumber=16-01-04&ProductCode=1&ProductSubCodeID=265&NewProduct=0

If you are interested, I can get them for you for $140.00 + shipping(about $8.50)

Did I mention that they have a Lifetime warranty and are made in the USA!!!!!!!!

pal2511
06-15-2011, 04:35
Are you a supplier for them? Can you get a foreend for me too?

eracer
06-15-2011, 04:37
You probably won't beat that price, but if you want quality like you said, I would at least go with a magpul butt stock and an H buffer.Puh-leeze. VLTOR stocks are very high quality.

The only difference between mil-spec and commercial is the size of the buffer tube. It has nothing to do with 'quality.'

A commercial buffer needs to be matched with a commercial tube, and a mil-spec buffer needs to be matched with a mil-spec tube. Different stocks are built to take either a commercial tube or a mil-spec tube.

pal2511
06-15-2011, 04:39
What's or who are h buffees

eracer
06-15-2011, 04:59
What's or who are h buffeesThe 'H' stands for 'Heavy.'

The weight of a buffer is one of the factors that influences the timing of the ejection/loading sequence. The buffer is matched to the type of gas system (pistol-length, carbine-length, mid-length, rifle-length.) Sometimes buffers can be used to help smooth the operation when using 'hotter' ammo. But they can cause short-stroking in a rifle using ammo that's a bit weaker (although that is pretty rare.)

Too many people think it's something you 'need' to change, mostly based on the ejection pattern they 'think' they should be seeing. Basically, if the gun goes bang every time and ejects in a relatively consistent pattern, then the gas/bolt/buffer system is working fine. It's true that carbine-length gas systems can benefit, due to the 'over-gassing' of the shorter gas system.

I use a Spike's ST2 buffer in my carbine. It smooths out the recoil impulse a bit and allows me to keep a better sight picture for follow-up shots.

I use a standard buffer on my rifle, since the rifle-length gas system is smoother.

WayaX
06-15-2011, 06:18
The only difference between mil-spec and commercial is the size of the buffer tube. It has nothing to do with 'quality.'

A commercial buffer needs to be matched with a commercial tube, and a mil-spec buffer needs to be matched with a mil-spec tube.

No and no.

While the term mil-spec and commercial denote the external diameter, there are other things different about them. Also there is the fact that most commercial buffer tubes (and even some mil-spec) are made with the incorrect aluminum. It *does* have to do with quality, just not directly.

What is a commercial buffer? You can put any weight buffer in collapsible tube as long as it's the right size (i.e. not the rifle buffer). You can use an H, H2, H3, 9mm, ST-2, or carbine buffer all in the same tube, be it commercial or mil-spec size. Note that the VLTOR A5 requires a special tube.

Deployment Solu
06-15-2011, 06:44
A true Mil-spec buffer tube is made of 7075 aluminum, has the threads cold rolled, and is made to the original specs by Colt. The pins for adj are 1/4 " wide. Choate's tube is made of 7075 aluminum, threads are cut, pins are 5/16" wide, have a larger bolt head, and the holes in the buffer tube are deeper. Their tubes are commercial so the bottom bar on the tube is wider/stronger. Their battery caps are not some sliding piece of plastic that is prone to fall off. They are an aluminum tube in the stock on each side and the caps are knurled aluminum, anodized, and have o-rings to keep them water proof. There was a lot of though and time put into the making of this stock. It has a "saddle" on each side of the top of the stock that is part of the stock, not some after thought that give a great cheek weld to the shooter.

A few of the AR10 manufacturers have found that Mil-Spec stocks have smaller pins that are breaking when under the heavier recoil of the .308. Not the case the the Choate stock.

The owners of the company use the M4 kit(minus buffer & spring) on their side folding M4 tele 870 stock and use it for duck hunting with 3" 12ga mag shot!!!!

I have a pic of a 3/4 pick up front tire parked on the Choate stock. Anyone else care to try that with their stock??? Did I mention it is made in the USA by Americans and have a Lifetime Warranty???

I don't use these thing because they are the cheapest out there. I use them because they are one of the best!!!

WayaX
06-15-2011, 11:28
A true Mil-spec buffer tube is made of 7075 aluminum, has the threads cold rolled, and is made to the original specs by Colt. The pins for adj are 1/4 " wide. Choate's tube is made of 7075 aluminum, threads are cut, pins are 5/16" wide, have a larger bolt head, and the holes in the buffer tube are deeper. Their tubes are commercial so the bottom bar on the tube is wider/stronger.

So you are saying it is out of spec? Awesome, so whenever I decide to change to another stock it will be a crap shoot as to whether or not it will fit or be too tight or too wobbly. That right there is the definition of quality.

Also, I guess the military is using non mil-spec rifles, since they aren't all Colts.

faawrenchbndr
06-15-2011, 11:40
I think he is stating that Choate's tube is better than mil-spec.

WayaX
06-15-2011, 11:56
I think he is stating that Choate's tube is better than mil-spec.

I don't think changing the receiver extension in the ways mentioned is better.

Deployment Solu
06-15-2011, 12:46
Better is kinda like apples and oranges. Mil-Spec is one set of specs, Choate's is another. It is wider, stronger, and made to withstand heavier recoil. I think it is better for my needs, but better is a relevant term.

Stronger, yes it is.

You cannot interchange Mil-Spec and commercial tubes and stocks. One is made for one, the other for the other.

Captains1911
06-15-2011, 14:07
this would be my choice
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/M4-Stock-Milspec-p/stock%20m4%20milspec%20black.htm

Captains1911
06-15-2011, 14:09
What you are looking at will be just fine. Don't bother spending the extra money on "higher quality", you will not notice any difference with similar stocks. There are different type of stocks for different purposes that are indeed higher quality, but any similarly styled stock will perform and look the same. Enjoy.

Is that so?
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e106/Captains1911/paper%20punchers/brokenbuffer-1.jpg

WayaX
06-15-2011, 14:23
Is that so?
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e106/Captains1911/paper%20punchers/brokenbuffer-1.jpg

Commercial, right?

Captains1911
06-15-2011, 14:44
Commercial, right?

That is correct. It's not my photo, but the story is it happened to a commercial extension during a course. Not everybody needs a mil-spec extension, but it's this never ending bs idea some people have that there is no difference in quality that needs to go.

Deployment Solu
06-15-2011, 16:07
I have never seen or heard of a Choate buffer tube or stock break. They are built like tanks!!! Their tube is .0030" thicker on each side than a Mil-Spec buffer tube.

The US Training Academy(Blackwater) uses them on their school guns. They also just bought 30 2p 7" railed handguards for their guns.

Remember the part about the truck being parked on the stock??? There will always be some stress point in manufacturing. I'd like to know if that tube was US made.

faawrenchbndr
06-15-2011, 16:14
Choate and Vltor's extensions are both MUCH stronger than mil-spec or commercial.

WayaX,......keep in mind, not all commercial extensions are the same.
And, the term "mil-spec" is being used rather loosely these days.
Buy cheap, get cheap!

WayaX
06-15-2011, 21:03
Choate and Vltor's extensions are both MUCH stronger than mil-spec or commercial.

WayaX,......keep in mind, not all commercial extensions are the same.
And, the term "mil-spec" is being used rather loosely these days.
Buy cheap, get cheap!

I know not all commercial are the same. That is one reason why I dislike them. There are commercial sized receivers that aren't absolute crap, but they usually cost about the same as a quality mil-spec size receiver. For that matter, there are crap "mil-spec" receivers out there.

The reason I don't like the Choate is the fact that it requires the use of a proprietary stock, and that stock doesn't seem as nice as a UBR (for another proprietary comparison). My other experiences with Choate also left me feeling like their quality was mediocre.

Buy cheap and get cheap is right. I had to deal with a bad "mil-spec" buffer tube that wasn't really so. The material was wrong even though the size was right. And to the OP, "mil-spec" isn't "best", it's just the minimum standard that the military will accept. However, just because something is advertised as "mil-spec" doesn't mean it is.

The best advice is to stick with quality companies. Captain1911's link is to something that fits that bill.

Deployment Solu
06-16-2011, 03:56
Receivers are all the same thread size where the buffer tubes screw in. It is the buffer tubes dimensions that are either Mil-Spec or commercial.

pal2511
06-16-2011, 04:07
Choate and Vltor's extensions are both MUCH stronger than mil-spec or commercial.

WayaX,......keep in mind, not all commercial extensions are the same.
And, the term "mil-spec" is being used rather loosely these days.
Buy cheap, get cheap!

You live right down the road from me. Small world

faawrenchbndr
06-16-2011, 04:40
.....The best advice is to stick with quality companies. Captain1911's link is to something that fits that bill.

Yep

You live right down the road from me. Small world

Not quite yet,.......we will be there 1 July :supergrin:

pal2511
06-16-2011, 05:15
Look me up when you get to town. I can PM you my number. I can always use another person to go shooting with :)

Goodspeed(TPF)
06-18-2011, 09:07
Is that so?
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e106/Captains1911/paper%20punchers/brokenbuffer-1.jpg


That is a picture of a broken receiver extension. I am talking about the "STOCK". Re-read what you quoted. :wavey: