ATF sells guns to Mexican criminals [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Natty
06-16-2011, 11:23
"Congress irate over ATF guns-to-Mexico program"

Our government at work

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/06/15/eveningnews/main20071385.shtml

Bren
06-16-2011, 11:42
CNN had a story on this, but when I clicked the link, all I got was this picture:
http://www.demotivationalpics.com/albums/userpics/normal_hear-no-evil.jpg

Natty
06-16-2011, 11:56
"Six months ago today, border patrol agent Brian Terry was gunned down. Today, three senior ATF agents sat beside Terry's mom, cousin and sister -- and said their agency may be to blame."

"Two of the guns found at the scene of Terry's murder were part of Thousands the ATF allegedly allowed gun traffickers to purchase."

gilfo
06-16-2011, 11:57
I think the government should just give up on the "war on drugs" they have been fighting it for decades and have been losing. The money could be better spent elsewhere and the taxes it could bring in would be mindblowing. The taxes could fund a real war that we might even be able to win-like the war on terror.

Then the ATF could do what they are intended to do. Make us all dot our I's and cross our T's.

Chuck TX
06-16-2011, 12:00
They're just allowing Mexican criminals to do the the gun buying that Americans won't. It's probably all part of the stimulus plan.

voyager4520
06-16-2011, 12:40
Part of the Congressional Committee Hearing was on CSPAN-2 last night. The chairman said everything I would've wanted to say and more.

The Representative for the DOJ basically back-pedaled on every question. They asked him if the agents involved in "walking" the specific guns that killed our people would be brought up on criminal charges, the Representative basically said that "administrative action would be taken" which also means "no". He seemed visibly insulted that such would even be considered.

Most of the information the Committee requested was not given to them for reasons of "being part of an ongoing investigation".

One of the Committee members asked something along the lines of "How could the goal of this operation be achieved(tracking the guns to cartels) if there were no plans to track the guns once they were across the border, and no cooperation with Mexican authorities on tracking the guns?" The DOJ Rep really had no answer for that one.

Bren
06-16-2011, 12:53
One of the Committee members asked something along the lines of "How could the goal of this operation be achieved(tracking the guns to cartels) if there were no plans to track the guns once they were across the border, and no cooperation with Mexican authorities on tracking the guns?" The DOJ Rep really had no answer for that one.

The only answer I can think of that really fits, even though it sounds crazy, was that the sole purpose of the operation was to build support for gun control laws in the U.S. by showing that U.S. guns were being smuggled to Mexican criminals.

You may recall that the only public anti-gun message that this administration has tried, going back to the start, is "US guns so easy to get they are being used by Mexican drug cartels." The obvious problem, at the beginning, was that they kept showing pictures of guns/grenades/rockets you can't buy in a Texas gun shop.

This program would (a) get a bunch of guns bought in U.S. gun shops over to Mexico to be used in crimes and (b) let them BS the ATF agents in the field with the old "tracking gun runners" cover story (that didn't really make sense, since they weren't tracked).

threefeathers
06-16-2011, 12:58
Nothing these idiots have done yet has backfired so badly.

Shinesintx
06-16-2011, 13:00
I think the government should just give up on the "war on drugs" they have been fighting it for decades and have been losing. The money could be better spent elsewhere and the taxes it could bring in would be mindblowing. The taxes could fund a real war that we might even be able to win-like the war on terror.

Then the ATF could do what they are intended to do. Make us all dot our I's and cross our T's.

I like what you did there.:rofl:

wjv
06-16-2011, 14:15
CNN had a story on this, but when I clicked the link, all I got was this picture:
http://www.demotivationalpics.com/albums/userpics/normal_hear-no-evil.jpg

I think those Monkey's names are "ABC", "CNN" and "CBS". "NBC" and "MSNBC" didn't show up for the photo session because they were too busy at the time, kissing the asses of the WH staff. . .

wjv
06-16-2011, 14:17
Nothing these idiots have done yet has backfired so badly.

Waco. . .

TN.Frank
06-16-2011, 14:20
Waco. . .

I was going to say that. The AFT put on the whole Waco show for the Media to show how powerful and worthy they were of more funding and ended up getting their ***** handed to em' in a basket, plus they got a lot of innocent women and children killed in the process. No heads ever rolled on that debacle but I play to God that some AFT/DOJ heads roll on this one. It's time for government agencies to learn that they are NOT above the law any more then you or I are. If we'd have done something like this they'd have thrown us UNDER the jail.

american lockpicker
06-16-2011, 14:21
Waco. . .

What if they tried that in Islamville... :supergrin:

http://www.wltx.com/news/story.aspx?storyid=73432&catid=2

tarpleyg
06-16-2011, 14:24
The only answer I can think of that really fits, even though it sounds crazy, was that the sole purpose of the operation was to build support for gun control laws in the U.S. by showing that U.S. guns were being smuggled to Mexican criminals.

You may recall that the only public anti-gun message that this administration has tried, going back to the start, is "US guns so easy to get they are being used by Mexican drug cartels." The obvious problem, at the beginning, was that they kept showing pictures of guns/grenades/rockets you can't buy in a Texas gun shop.

This program would (a) get a bunch of guns bought in U.S. gun shops over to Mexico to be used in crimes and (b) let them BS the ATF agents in the field with the old "tracking gun runners" cover story (that didn't really make sense, since they weren't tracked).
You are absolutely correct, my friend. This exercise was nothing more than an effort to gain more support for the JBTs and more money for their nasty agendas.

Greg

.45Super-Man
06-16-2011, 15:03
Just more proof of what most of us have known all along. Knowing that what they've been caught at only represents the proverbial tip of the iceberg is the worst part.

cgwahl
06-16-2011, 15:41
The only answer I can think of that really fits, even though it sounds crazy, was that the sole purpose of the operation was to build support for gun control laws in the U.S. by showing that U.S. guns were being smuggled to Mexican criminals.


Either that or make the ATF seem relevant thus garnering support for more money going to them.


Sadly, nothing will probably come of this. Maybe a few people will get in trouble and/or some of the people getting token sentences. But I have my doubts that anyone that matters will really get in trouble from this. Be it fired or go to jail. Although as stupid as this plan was, not to mention causing people on both sides of the border to get killed, someone should be getting a lethal injection.

stevelyn
06-16-2011, 15:45
The only answer I can think of that really fits, even though it sounds crazy, was that the sole purpose of the operation was to build support for gun control laws in the U.S. by showing that U.S. guns were being smuggled to Mexican criminals.

You may recall that the only public anti-gun message that this administration has tried, going back to the start, is "US guns so easy to get they are being used by Mexican drug cartels." The obvious problem, at the beginning, was that they kept showing pictures of guns/grenades/rockets you can't buy in a Texas gun shop.

This program would (a) get a bunch of guns bought in U.S. gun shops over to Mexico to be used in crimes and (b) let them BS the ATF agents in the field with the old "tracking gun runners" cover story (that didn't really make sense, since they weren't tracked).



I agree.

I'm becoming more and more convinced Gunwalker was a false flag operation hatched by Holder and his waffen BATFEces thugs to support the premise that the Messcan drug cartels were getting their guns from border state gun shops and gun shows as a pretext to call for stricter gun laws in spite of Heller which they disagree with.

Each and everyone of them need to dangle from the end of a rope. Especially that weasal Holder who supposedly as chief LE officer of the land should have a lot more integrity than he is displaying. :steamed:

Carrys
06-16-2011, 17:32
You can bet the farm that since no one seems to know just who authorized the program, as in just who in Washington say, "Yeah, I like this idea!"..... it's someone whom the White House doesn't want to be held or be seen as being responsible for this disaster.

Another quite telling point to me, is that during all the time they knew this would be a problem.......they haven't come up with a fall guy, as in "patsy" or "scapegoat". IMO, everyone has told them if they try to pin it on them....they'll spill all the beans.


I believe the person who said let's go with this idea, should be charged with felony murder, but that's just my opinion. There was no ability to track the guns, no help from Mexico....if they even knew about it, and no way to do anything really. Except to let the guns go into Mexico free and clear. Why shouldn't someone who made such a terrible and disastrous decision be charged with the agent's death? He/She facilitated it, supplied the means, and should have been able to predict just such an outcome.

What would they have done to you under the same circumstances had you knowingly sold your gun to a cartel member and it was used to murder an agent?

Mister_Beefy
06-16-2011, 17:39
The BATFE should be shut down.

and I'd love to Holder in the nuts.

Pierre!
06-16-2011, 17:51
As I was leaving for a job in California I thought I saw a blurb in the local Tucson AZ news about Mexican Nationals looking for ... You Ready?

REFUGEE STATUS in the good ole USA.

Yup, Mexican Nationals need to get out of Mexico to be protected from the Drug Cartells who are killing their families and friends.

NOW we know why 'they' have done nothing... it's another step closer to establishing the Amero currency that Vicente Fox (previous President of Mexico) spoke about on Larry King Live a couple years ago...

The North American countries - need to be united - Canada, United States, and Mexico - for a 'stronger economy'... Perhaps a certain president's job is to tank the economy hard enough that the populace will be grateful to rise to Canadian or Mexico's currency values.

How else can we prosecute Border Patrol officers and sentence them to prison time for wounding an illegal alien drug/human smuggler while the BATFE directly participates in the murder of a Border Patrol agent by supplying the weapons, and no one in power is even talking about it.

And they think we don't know is the funniest part.

Yah, IQ's have plummeted here in the good ole USA all of a sudden, along with accountability, responsibility, and honor.

Giving me itchy feet...

cgwahl
06-16-2011, 18:10
As I was leaving for a job in California I thought I saw a blurb in the local Tucson AZ news about Mexican Nationals looking for ... You Ready?

REFUGEE STATUS in the good ole USA.

Yup, Mexican Nationals need to get out of Mexico to be protected from the Drug Cartells who are killing their families and friends.


This is actually old news. These might be new "refugess," but this issue has been cropping up more and more the past few years. And not just with people saying I'm a refugee, let me in. They might actually be able to prove it.

Recall one article last year of a bunch of people coming into Texas saying they are refugees. The reason was because a cartel went into a town more or less saying if you're still here by the end of the week we will kill you.

Carrys
06-16-2011, 18:21
The reason was because a cartel went into a town more or less saying if you're still here by the end of the week we will kill you.


And guess what they'll use to kill them with?


You got it, the guns we let get through to them.

**sigh**

.45Super-Man
06-16-2011, 18:29
One could also call into question, just how many of these weapons were used against american citizens, especially in arizona. It also tends to make the feds unwillingness to assist LEO in arizona and neighboring states, seem all the more peculiar, now doesnt it???

cgwahl
06-16-2011, 18:53
And guess what they'll use to kill them with?


You got it, the guns we let get through to them.

**sigh**


Quite the viscous cycle, eh?

Carrys
06-16-2011, 18:58
Quite the viscous cycle, eh?



Yes sir, and every circle starts with a dot on paper.

Wonder whose dot started this calamity?

THEPOPE
06-16-2011, 19:33
I've been reading about and hearing about this for quite a long time, most recently, the fine Freedom mag that the NRA sends out...in-depth study of the BATFE's neferous , deciet-ful and ILLEGAL selling of guns to the cartels...

The made up story that needed a real reason to tell, as in, " WAG THE DOG" if the dog won't wag-tail himself....

The poster , " Carry" is correct, anyone else that would do such a bizarre and stupid act would be in prison, but like all gov. entities, there is no one to take the responsibility and blame, so no one will pay.

This " Fast and Furious" plan sucked from the get-go, and SOME-one knew how illegal this HAD to be....for cripes sake, a freaking MORON would have more common sense than this incredibly stupid operation....


The entire enchelada stinks............I am out........:cool:

mac66
06-16-2011, 19:39
Not only should ATF officials lose their jobs over this debacle, they should be flogged and sent to prison.

Caver 60
06-16-2011, 20:13
I know my response won't be too popular.

But isn't blaming the guns that the ATF let get through to Mexico for someone's death, somewhat like the Brady bunch blaming the easy access to guns in the US, for the supposed high crime rate in the US?

And for the record I'm not real fond of the ATF, the 68 GCA, or any of the 30's firearm acts.

JohnnyReb
06-16-2011, 21:38
I have a problem with the government doing anything that a private citizen would be arrested for. Gotta love the double standards of justice.

Bren
06-17-2011, 04:39
I know my response won't be too popular.

But isn't blaming the guns that the ATF let get through to Mexico for someone's death, somewhat like the Brady bunch blaming the easy access to guns in the US, for the supposed high crime rate in the US?

And for the record I'm not real fond of the ATF, the 68 GCA, or any of the 30's firearm acts.

You are correct.

However, most of us don't blame the guns getting through for the death. We blame the guns getting through for allowing the democrats to say that the crime guns are coming from America.

I mean, it's Mexico - the US is the hardest and most expensive place nearby to get guns - a full-auto AK or M-16 would probably cost about 5-10% as much from their south border, or from their own military, as from their north border - so the crimes are going to happen without these US guns. That's likely why the ATF had to work so hard to make sure there were at least a handful of US guns, from gun shops, among the many to be recovered from Mexican crime scenes.