Guns-in Restaurants Bill Passes, Sent to Governor [Archive] - Glock Talk

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dickmartin
06-17-2011, 08:26
On Wednesday, June 15, 2011, the Ohio House of Representatives passed Senate Bill 17 and sent it to Governor Kasich. SB 17, if it becomes law, will allow a concealed handgun licensee to be armed in an establishment with a Class D liquor permit to serve alcohol for on-premises consumption, as long as the licensee is not consuming alcohol nor under the influence. Currently it's a felony to bring a gun into such an establishment. The governor can sign the bill, veto it, or do nothing in which case, in ten days it becomes law without his signature.

If you live in Ohio, please go to http://governor.ohio.gov/ShareYourIdeas.aspx
and respectfully ask Gov. Kasich to sign SB 17 or allow it to become law without his signature.

In Ohio a bill becomes effective ninety days after it becomes law.

cowboy1964
06-18-2011, 22:26
Gov's spokesmen said he will sign it but I haven't heard when.

SgtScott31
06-22-2011, 22:32
Isn't the establishment private property? We recently passed a similar law in Tennessee for HCP holders, but the bar/restaurant owner can opt out and ban weapons as long as the correct signage is posted at the entrance.

cowboy1964
06-24-2011, 00:10
Yes, the owners can put up the sign. That's why I don't understand why some of the bar operators were so upset. It wasn't being forced on them to let guns in.

Will be interesting to see how many put up the sign. I bet a lot will. I don't go to bars but do go to plenty of restaurants that serve alcohol and I hope they don't sign up.

SgtScott31
06-24-2011, 01:57
That was my thinking. The first bill that attempted to pass in TN was thrown out by a judge because it was too vague. What they attempted to do was differentiate between a bar and a restaurant. The law that passed allows carry into anywhere that serves alcohol, which to me is asking for trouble. Why else would you go into a pub or pool hall except to drink? That's just not an environment for a gun in my opinion. Now if you're eating at Chili's or an Outback steakhouse, I don't see the issue as long as you're not consuming.

Jerry
06-24-2011, 09:25
That was my thinking. The first bill that attempted to pass in TN was thrown out by a judge because it was too vague. What they attempted to do was differentiate between a bar and a restaurant. The law that passed allows carry into anywhere that serves alcohol, which to me is asking for trouble. Why else would you go into a pub or pool hall except to drink? That's just not an environment for a gun in my opinion. Now if you're eating at Chili's or an Outback steakhouse, I don't see the issue as long as you're not consuming.

Not too long ago a group of people were having a party in bar. A bunch of gang bangers decided to try to rob them at gunpoint and shot one of them. The group was cops and one, who was not drinking was armed. Guess who won the day. If they had been private citizens they would have been massacred. Cops can carry in bars why not us?

A couple of months ago a group of teens were having a private party in a “closed for that night” bar. A gangbanger walked in and started shooting. Private Citizens are not allowed to carry in bars here, guess who won that one.

A6Gator
06-24-2011, 16:36
Yep, passed the guns in restaurants bill here in Tennessee, with enough votes to overide the then Marxist governor's veto. Outside of every restaurant and bar in the Volunteer State is a huge stack of bodies with every parking lot having designated ambulance parking... No, not really. Actually, it's been pretty much a non-event.

Hopefully the Ohio legislature wrote it so the shrill, "it's dangerous to everybody" crowd can't judge shop until they find someone who finds it "vague."

Having Kasich sign it would go a long way in raising his esteem in my book. It's just a correction to the CCW law that should've been in place when they first wrote it.

As for the restaurants that post their places, there are a lot of other restaurants out there. I figure if they don't trust me, why should I trust them?

SgtScott31
06-24-2011, 21:16
Not too long ago a group of people were having a party in bar. A bunch of gang bangers decided to try to rob them at gunpoint and shot one of them. The group was cops and one, who was not drinking was armed. Guess who won the day. If they had been private citizens they would have been massacred. Cops can carry in bars why not us?

A couple of months ago a group of teens were having a private party in a “closed for that night” bar. A gangbanger walked in and started shooting. Private Citizens are not allowed to carry in bars here, guess who one that one.

Massacred or just robbed? Let's try not to exaggerate. As far as the second scenario, I would also assume based on what I know in LE that the gangbanger was targeting someone in the group, though neither one of us were there so I'm not going to jump to too many conlusions. I'm not sure a couple of isolated incidents gives justification for everyone to go packing in a pool hall or night club. Regardless of our opinion on the matter, it's up to the property owner. I lived in the night clubs during my early undergrad years and I can easily tell you no one in there should have been packing. There was too much testosterone and alcohol floating around. Most establishments who have large crowds have security (including off-duty LEOs) at the door that conduct wanding and pat-downs anyway.

ModGlock17
06-25-2011, 08:23
It hurts the business when your clientele population gets reduced...:whistling:

But then on the other hand, I've always recommended that if you'd be home before 11pm, you'd avoid a lot of "inconvenient nonsense" where alcohol is somewhere part of the activity.

Jerry
06-25-2011, 15:21
Massacred or just robbed? Let's try not to exaggerate. As far as the second scenario, I would also assume based on what I know in LE that the gangbanger was targeting someone in the group, though neither one of us were there so I'm not going to jump to too many conlusions. I'm not sure a couple of isolated incidents gives justification for everyone to go packing in a pool hall or night club. Regardless of our opinion on the matter, it's up to the property owner. I lived in the night clubs during my early undergrad years and I can easily tell you no one in there should have been packing. There was too much testosterone and alcohol floating around. Most establishments who have large crowds have security (including off-duty LEOs) at the door that conduct wanding and pat-downs anyway.

Who’s exaggerating? The incident with the LEOs happened several years ago. The “robbers”, according to news sources, opened fire. Then the off duty officer returned fire ending the conflict. That account has never been debunked.

The event with the teens happened in New Orleans. Thug walked in started shooting. As far as I know he got away clean.

Seems whenever someone has no facts to backup their opinion they look for other ways to discredit an opponent and lead away from the facts. But hell, let’s not let anyone carry anywhere you think it might not be politically correct. It really is a shame that not only do we have to fight the anty-gun crowd for our rights but far too many in the gun culture have the same irrational mentality. Sara Brady loves you OH MY GOD THE STREETS WILL RUN RED WITH BLOOD types. It hasn’t happened yet but the illogical, the fearful and the self-serving will continue to cry about what MIGHT happen while in reality it never has… anywhere!

When trying to make a point you should keep your reply on point. I never said one thing about what a property owner should or should not have a right to do. But hey let’s try to muddy the waters with details not presented in my original post. :upeyes:

SgtScott31
06-25-2011, 21:18
Who’s exaggerating? The incident with the LEOs happened several years ago. The “robbers”, according to news sources, opened fire. Then the off duty officer returned fire ending the conflict. That account has never been debunked.

The event with the teens happened in New Orleans. Thug walked in started shooting. As far as I know he got away clean.

Seems whenever someone has no facts to backup their opinion they look for other ways to discredit an opponent and lead away from the facts. But hell, let’s not let anyone carry anywhere you think it might not be politically correct. It really is a shame that not only do we have to fight the anty-gun crowd for our rights but far too many in the gun culture have the same irrational mentality. Sara Brady loves you OH MY GOD THE STREETS WILL RUN RED WITH BLOOD types. It hasn’t happened yet but the illogical, the fearful and the self-serving will continue to cry about what MIGHT happen while in reality it never has… anywhere!

When trying to make a point you should keep your reply on point. I never said one thing about what a property owner should or should not have a right to do. But hey let’s try to muddy the waters with details not presented in my original post. :upeyes:

I'm not trying to lead away from anything. I think if anyone has spent anytime in a night club, pool-hall, or biker bar, they would probably feel the same way. Look at the majority of folks that are in these establishments. If you're implying they're going to be a bunch of responsible gun-toting candidates, you have a lot more trust in them than I do. I don't have issues with folks carrying in restaurants, but if it's an establishment who's main profit is alcohol, I don't think weapons need to be there, period. That's not just throwing it up in the air. That's my opinion based on my personal experience in similar places for years in my younger days, my experience as a LE arresting a ton of folks coming out of these establishments for DUI (and poss of weapon under influence), and the numerous bars that have been shut down in my area because of multiple calls of violence.

I'm not referring to your local restaurants. In my opinion, throwing out a couple of do-good stories involving an off-duty LEO or permit holder in these type places is not going to feed enough justification to anyone an everyone in there to go packin. I've seen far too many fights and when you start introducing guns into the mix, to me there just isn't going to be a good outcome. It appears that most folks who run these places feel the same way. When the bill was passed in TN, signs shot up banning firearms in most of the places I'm referring to.

Jerry
06-26-2011, 11:43
I'm not trying to lead away from anything. I think if anyone has spent anytime in a night club, pool-hall, or biker bar, they would probably feel the same way. Look at the majority of folks that are in these establishments. If you're implying they're going to be a bunch of responsible gun-toting candidates, you have a lot more trust in them than I do. I don't have issues with folks carrying in restaurants, but if it's an establishment who's main profit is alcohol, I don't think weapons need to be there, period. That's not just throwing it up in the air. That's my opinion based on my personal experience in similar places for years in my younger days, my experience as a LE arresting a ton of folks coming out of these establishments for DUI (and poss of weapon under influence), and the numerous bars that have been shut down in my area because of multiple calls of violence.

I'm not referring to your local restaurants. In my opinion, throwing out a couple of do-good stories involving an off-duty LEO or permit holder in these type places is not going to feed enough justification to anyone an everyone in there to go packin. I've seen far too many fights and when you start introducing guns into the mix, to me there just isn't going to be a good outcome. It appears that most folks who run these places feel the same way. When the bill was passed in TN, signs shot up banning firearms in most of the places I'm referring to.

I spent PLENTY of time in all three in my younger years. I believe the one BIG point you are overlooking is.... the law allows (would allow) CCW, CHG CWP, holders to carry firearms is such establishments. So your average bar fly and outlaw biker would not be legally carrying. I can guarantee you, (from experience) 75% of outlaw bikers ARE carrying firearms in bars and the other bikers, outlaw or not ARE carrying knives. All the law does now is keep the law-abiding from protecting themselves should the need arise.

Those that believe the law or signs will stop the undesirable, untrustworthy and dangerous people from carrying firearms in their establishment are delusional. If you believe a law stops a criminal from doing anything you are sadly mistaken.

SgtScott31
06-26-2011, 21:00
I spent PLENTY of time in all three in my younger years. I believe the one BIG point you are overlooking is.... the law allows (would allow) CCW, CHG CWP, holders to carry firearms is such establishments. So your average bar fly and outlaw biker would not be legally carrying. I can guarantee you, (from experience) 75% of outlaw bikers ARE carrying firearms in bars and the other bikers, outlaw or not ARE carrying knives. All the law does now is keep the law-abiding from protecting themselves should the need arise.

Those that believe the law or signs will stop the undesirable, untrustworthy and dangerous people from carrying firearms in their establishment are delusional. If you believe a law stops a criminal from doing anything you are sadly mistaken.

We can agree to disagree. You're not going to convince me that allowing firearms in any of the places mentioned is going to have a positive outcome. Besides, it's not going to be much of a reality because the folks that own these places are going to ban them regardless of what the law allows.

As far as "outlaw" bikers, whether you're referring to the actual outlaw gang or just hardcore bikers in general, I hardly doubt any CCW holders are going in there anyway.

Jerry
06-26-2011, 21:17
We can agree to disagree. You're not going to convince me that allowing firearms in any of the places mentioned is going to have a positive outcome. Besides, it's not going to be much of a reality because the folks that own these places are going to ban them regardless of what the law allows.

As far as "outlaw" bikers, whether you're referring to the actual outlaw gang or just hardcore bikers in general, I hardly doubt any CCW holders are going in there anyway.

And outlaws, robbers, gang bangers and just plain nut jobs never show up in bars where regular fun loving citizens might happen to be. :upeyes: Yep, let’s make sure those that carry legally are stoppe. Sara Brady loves you. :brickwall:

alwaysshootin
06-27-2011, 05:33
Isn't the establishment private property? We recently passed a similar law in Tennessee for HCP holders, but the bar/restaurant owner can opt out and ban weapons as long as the correct signage is posted at the entrance.

Yes it is, and, just as what happened in some private owned businesses, the proper signs went up the day, the concealed carry law, went into effect. Krogers, Frischs, United Dairy Farmers, for example, put the signs up, and, were back down in no time, when they started getting told, that legal gun carriers would no longer spend money in their establishment. I'm sure the same will happen in any restaurant, who attempts to keep law abiding citizens from carrying in their establishment. They will learn as quickly as the others did!:cool:

SgtScott31
07-01-2011, 04:54
Yes it is, and, just as what happened in some private owned businesses, the proper signs went up the day, the concealed carry law, went into effect. Krogers, Frischs, United Dairy Farmers, for example, put the signs up, and, were back down in no time, when they started getting told, that legal gun carriers would no longer spend money in their establishment. I'm sure the same will happen in any restaurant, who attempts to keep law abiding citizens from carrying in their establishment. They will learn as quickly as the others did!:cool:

I haven't heard of any businesses in my area that decided to remove their signs because of a massive drop of their customer base. If you consider the amount of permit holders against the general population, especially when mentioning stores like Kroger, I doubt it would be noticed. I'll break it down: 268,000 permit holders in TN out of a state population of 6.2 million = 4% of the total population. Unless it's a tiny mom & pop joint, I don't see a mass protest causing a shutdown.



And outlaws, robbers, gang bangers and just plain nut jobs never show up in bars where regular fun loving citizens might happen to be. :upeyes: Yep, let’s make sure those that carry legally are stoppe. Sara Brady loves you


Last I checked there wasn't an onslaught of shootings in these places. For the most part bars and clubs that have any history of violence, by public policy, are required to step up with security to remain open. This includes pat-downs and wanding. Shootings in these areas normally occur outside the building (where the fights move to), which again is not where we're likely to find your family minivans and law-abiding HCP holders anyway. I find it amusing that you guys believe that these new laws are somehow saving hundreds of citizens from the many gun deaths that are occurring every day in bars and night clubs. I guess if you attempt to make it out to be worse than it is, then the agenda can get pushed.

alwaysshootin
07-01-2011, 08:34
[QUOTE=SgtScott31;17568827]I haven't heard of any businesses in my area that decided to remove their signs because of a massive drop of their customer base. If you consider the amount of permit holders against the general population, especially when mentioning stores like Kroger, I doubt it would be noticed. I'll break it down: 268,000 permit holders in TN out of a state population of 6.2 million = 4% of the total population. Unless it's a tiny mom & pop joint, I don't see a mass protest causing a shutdown.



All I know is, I wish you could have seen the face on the Kroger manager, after being called down from his office, with me having a bascart overflowing with groceries. Telling him my business was now going to Walmart. It was priceless! He asked why? I told him the Milford Walmart did not have a, "no gun sign" up on their front door. The next week the sign was removed from the front door at Krogers!!!! You are probably right though, me stating my business going elsewhere had nothing to do with the signs removal. They just rethought their policy, and changed their minds, within just a week of concealed carry becoming law in OH:upeyes: Right!

Jerry
07-01-2011, 10:57
I haven't heard of any businesses in my area that decided to remove their signs because of a massive drop of their customer base. If you consider the amount of permit holders against the general population, especially when mentioning stores like Kroger, I doubt it would be noticed. I'll break it down: 268,000 permit holders in TN out of a state population of 6.2 million = 4% of the total population. Unless it's a tiny mom & pop joint, I don't see a mass protest causing a shutdown.



Last I checked there wasn't an onslaught of shootings in these places.

You’re right! So why the big deal about disarming honorable citizens. And don't give me that, "The Streets Will Run Run Red with Blood" manure.

For the most part bars and clubs that have any history of violence, by public policy, are required to step up with security to remain open. This includes pat-downs and wanding.

I’ve never been patted down or wanded before going into a bar.

Shootings in these areas normally occur outside the building (where the fights move to), which again is not where we're likely to find your family minivans and law-abiding HCP holders anyway. I find it amusing that you guys believe that these new laws are somehow saving hundreds of citizens from the many gun deaths that are occurring every day in bars and night clubs. I guess if you attempt to make it out to be worse than it is, then the agenda can get pushed.

Again you are correct! Most people are robbed and mugged on their way too or from businesses. Lets make sure they can’t have a firearm when going or coming for whatever reason. :upeyes:

It never ceases to amaze/discus me the unfounded reasons/excuses people, even pro-gun people, find to deny people their right. And here’s one BIG fly in your ointment.

You seem to like what ifs? Well hares one that as has been proven many times over. Man/woman goes into the city and is FORCED BY FOOLISH LAWS OR DIM-WITTED PROPERTY OWNERS to leave their firearm in their vehicle. Vehicle gets broken into and we now have a “criminal” with another gun. Swat teem left weapons, some full auto, in their van while they slept in a motel. Weapons were stolen! The worst thing a person can do is leave a weapon unattended in a vehicle in the city but we are sometimes forced to or WE become outlaws because of STUPID laws.

As you say, the property owner has a “right” to put up signs. Citizens have the right to do business or refuse to business there. But the Gumment has no business telling The People if they can bear arms in/on private property.

SgtScott31
07-01-2011, 21:21
You’re right! So why the big deal about disarming honorable citizens.


So why the big deal about having to carry them? We could go in circles with that argument.


I’ve never been patted down or wanded before going into a bar.


Like I mentioned in my last post, those bars/clubs that have had fights/assaults are normally required to step up security (which includes the metal detectors/pat-downs/dress code, etc). There's a club here that was recently shut down because of the amount of calls to the PD. The city can declare the place a "public nuisance" and shut it down until they get their sh** together and make it a safer place.

Most bars/clubs who don't have that issue don't require any additional security measures.

The worst thing a person can do is leave a weapon unattended in a vehicle in the city but we are sometimes forced to or WE become outlaws because of STUPID laws.


If you're worried about auto burglary, then lock it in the trunk. You don't have to like the policies that most businesses put in place to ban weapons, but the total blame is not on them. There's easily other steps that can be taken so valuables, including weapons, are not stolen out of vehicles.

Jerry
07-01-2011, 22:58
So why the big deal about having to carry them? We could go in circles with that argument.

I was almost killed and my wife raped and killed. I had a firearm and prevented it. That’s the BIG deal.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. That’s the BIG deal.



Like I mentioned in my last post, those bars/clubs that have had fights/assaults are normally required to step up security (which includes the metal detectors/pat-downs/dress code, etc). There's a club here that was recently shut down because of the amount of calls to the PD. The city can declare the place a "public nuisance" and shut it down until they get their sh** together and make it a safer place.


Most bars/clubs who don't have that issue don't require any additional security measures.

Are they also required to furnish escorts to and from people’s vehicles? Do they furnish security to each vehicle to assure criminals do not break in and steel the patrons firearms?



If you're worried about auto burglary, then lock it in the trunk. You don't have to like the policies that most businesses put in place to ban weapons, but the total blame is not on them. There's easily other steps that can be taken so valuables, including weapons, are not stolen out of vehicles.

You are correct as far as businesses go. That’s why I don’t do business with places with signs. Haven’t seen many around here. However it is entirely the gumments fault. If businesses are willing to let us bring our firearm in the gumment has no authority to infringe on our right.

What is it that makes people like you so afraid of citizens with firearms that you want us disarmed? It’s been proven over and over again that CCW holders are most responsible people yet you would leave us disarmed to be pray for criminals that you CAN NOT disarm. Locking firearms in the trunk does not stop thieves and leaves the owner vulnerable. A firearm locked in a vehicle is useless.

You can go on and on about why people shouldn’t be allowed to carry here or there but you know what? We have grown tired of those that want to curtail our right based on irrational fears and we are having BAD laws nullified. In case you missed it that is want the OP is about, new law superseding BAD law. We are also showing antigun businesses how we feel by taking our business elsewhere.

dickmartin
07-03-2011, 10:15
Ohio Gov. Kasich signed SB 17 on Thursday, June 30, 2011. It will become effective in 90 days, around the end of September. For official status and effective date see
http://lsc.state.oh.us/coderev/sen129.nsf/Senate+Bill+Number/0017?OpenDocument

Jerry
07-03-2011, 11:31
Ohio Gov. Kasich signed SB 17 on Thursday, June 30, 2011. It will become effective in 90 days, around the end of September. For official status and effective date see
http://lsc.state.oh.us/coderev/sen129.nsf/Senate+Bill+Number/0017?OpenDocument

Congratulations! Looks like the good guys are winning. :supergrin: