Larry Vickers bashing the 1911? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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glock2740
06-18-2011, 21:25
I found this on TOS. Kind of interesting. I do have to agree with the idea, as what he says about the 1911 is true. The Glock and 1911 are still my two favorite pistol platforms, so the article isn't swaying my current opinion about either. Ironically, the quote in my signature is from Larry Vickers. Ande I agree with it. Although, I bet Larry has never seen or owned a hardchromed lawnmower. :)
:rofl:
Here's the link. http://www.airforcetimes.com/offduty/technology/offduty-gear-scout-pimp-your-1911-060611w/

Hokie1911
06-18-2011, 21:34
Apparently my Brown is junk. I haven't sent it in to a smith for a pricey overhaul. I need to sell it immediately and get a Glock since they work.

No wait........my Kobra Carry goes BANG every single time I pull the trigger. :dunno:

glock2740
06-18-2011, 21:41
Apparently my Brown is junk. I haven't sent it in to a smith for a pricey overhaul. I need to sell it immediately and get a Glock since they work.

No wait........my Kobra Carry goes BANG every single time I pull the trigger. :dunno:
Didn't you read that article? :dunno: Just give it time. Apparently it won't be long before your KC is gonna go belly up someday and then you can sell it and buy a whole herd of Glocks. :rofl:

Tiro Fijo
06-18-2011, 21:43
I think the point is that yes, it is a fine gun. However, when you are back where the hoot owls bang the chickens and no armory support there are more self serving choices. Remember, he was in Delta and they can't just fly in a trained armourer on a whim when they are on a secret op.

Hokie1911
06-18-2011, 21:44
Didn't you read that article? :dunno: Just give it time. Apparently it won't be long before your KC is gonna go belly up someday and then you can sell it and buy a whole herd of Glocks. :rofl:

Yeah, I guess my lube...shoot...clean...lube...shoot...clean...etc is going to fail at some point then I will have to sink a grand into it to make it run right, after I wait 4 years for a good smith. :crying:

bac1023
06-18-2011, 21:46
But the 1911 is not a plug-and-play platform. Even a $2,000 semi-custom 1911 likely will need a pricey trip to a gunsmith for tweaking.


Where do they get this crap? :upeyes:

glock2740
06-18-2011, 21:47
Yeah, I guess my lube...shoot...clean...lube...shoot...clean...etc is going to fail at some point then I will have to sink a grand into it to make it run right, after I wait 4 years for a good smith. :crying:
:rofl: I agree. :rofl:

glock2740
06-18-2011, 21:49
Where do they get this crap? :upeyes:
:dunno:I was kind of surprised to see it, but I figurede it might make for some interesting chatter on here. :cool:

Mr. Gekko
06-18-2011, 21:50
Many things in that article made me roll my eyes.

All I care about is my own thoughts and confidence in the gun(s) I choose to carry. I could care less about what anyone else thinks.

Hokie1911
06-18-2011, 21:54
Where do they get this crap? :upeyes:

All I know is I have 500 rounds through mine as of today, and not a single failure....period. Stock 7 round Brown mags and a variety of ammo. :dunno:

Eric SF
06-18-2011, 21:55
Larry helped to develop the HK45, and he prefers to shoot a Glock! Kinda says it all

Hokie1911
06-18-2011, 21:57
Larry helped to develop the HK45, and he prefers to shoot a Glock! Kinda says it all

There was an article I linked a while back that was an interview with LAV and KH about the development of the HK45 and he said some interesting stuff in it. Oh and by the way, it's junk until you send it to Bowie Tactical to get the *cough cough* Vickers trigger job. :upeyes:

bac1023
06-18-2011, 21:57
Larry helped to develop the HK45, and he prefers to shoot a Glock! Kinda says it all

About what? :headscratch:

Eric SF
06-18-2011, 21:59
Glock > HK45 > 1911

glock2740
06-18-2011, 22:00
Larry helped to develop the HK45, and he prefers to shoot a Glock! Kinda says it all
What the hell does an HK45 have to do with a 1911?:dunno:

Hokie1911
06-18-2011, 22:02
What the hell does an HK45 have to do with a 1911?:dunno:

It's the best .45 plastic gun you can get, and can be carried Condition1 like the 1911. I think that's what he was getting at. :thumbsup:

Mr. Gekko
06-18-2011, 22:02
Larry helped to develop the HK45, and he prefers to shoot a Glock! Kinda says it all

About what? By that logic, should I sell what I own and prefer to buy a bunch of Glocks because Larry Vickers likes them?

bac1023
06-18-2011, 22:03
Glock > HK45 > 1911

:rofl:

I'd say the exact opposite.

Hokie1911
06-18-2011, 22:05
About what? By that logic, should I sell what I own and prefer to buy a bunch of Glocks because Larry Vickers likes them?

I think these days LAV is getting paid, and that dictates a lot of what he says. :whistling:

Hokie1911
06-18-2011, 22:06
:rofl:

I'd say the exact opposite.

Brian, he had it right. Just had the arrows in the wrong direction.

Glock < HK < 1911

glock2740
06-18-2011, 22:08
I think these days LAV is getting paid, and that dictates a lot of what he says. :whistling:
BINGO! We have a winner. :number1::broccoli::banana::broccoli:

Fedor
06-18-2011, 22:28
Vickers says "the 1911 is obsolete"... what a Maroon !! :rofl:
Old LV can kiss my "eye" :tongueout:

thecableguy
06-18-2011, 22:36
I never really cared for the guy. He seems a little arrogant. I can appreciate his credentials don't give a damn for his attitude.

glock2740
06-18-2011, 22:38
Old LV can kiss my "eye" :tongueout:
The brown one? :dunno:


:rofl:

Quack
06-18-2011, 22:38
He's just mad because he had to pay MSRP for his Wilson Supergrade.

glock2740
06-18-2011, 22:42
I never really cared for the guy. He seems a little arrogant. I can appreciate his credentials don't give a damn for his attitude.
He can be a tad cocky, but he does know his sh1+. At the same time, he has his opinions, and I have mine. I don't have to be an "operator"/"assaultor" to have a pretty valid opinion of my own. :cool:

glock2740
06-18-2011, 22:43
He's just mad because he had to pay MSRP for his Wilson Supergrade.
:rofl::rofl::rofl:

thecableguy
06-18-2011, 22:44
He can be a tad cocky, but he does know his sh1+. At the same time, he has his opinions, and I have mine. I don't have to be an "operator"/"assaultor" to have a pretty valid opinion of my own. :cool:

:thumbsup: :agree:

Quack
06-18-2011, 22:48
IIRC LV said that the Wilson CQB is the best out of box 1911 out there.

okie
06-18-2011, 22:50
Larry can kiss my ass:supergrin::rofl:

Tiro Fijo
06-18-2011, 22:53
I think most are totally missing his point. When you are in the drop edge of yonder the last thing you want is a weapon malf. He's not talking about some Gomer busting a sear spring at the Izaak Walton League but rather in some Third World hell hole where he has little armory support. Damn few here in the forum could fit a new sear in a shop let alone deep in the bush. He's referring to today's Special Ops whereas they may be "deep" for weeks or months on end with little contact and that is no time for a weapon to "choke."

fnfalman
06-18-2011, 23:31
I think most are totally missing his point. When you are in the drop edge of yonder the last thing you want is a weapon malf. He's not talking about some Gomer busting a sear spring at the Izaak Walton League but rather in some Third World hell hole where he has little armory support. Damn few here in the forum could fit a new sear in a shop let alone deep in the bush. He's referring to today's Special Ops whereas they may be "deep" for weeks or months on end with little contact and that is no time for a weapon to "choke."

I'm no great fan of the M1911 platform, but seriously, you actually believed what you've just wrote?

How often do these guns suffer parts breakages? Do you think that Special Forces Operators/Commandos/Tango Hunters would go about for months on end without going back to some sort of base? And somehow in between that time, they've shot thousands of rounds through their handguns that would cause metal fatigue and parts breakage?

MD357
06-19-2011, 01:20
I think the point is that yes, it is a fine gun. However, when you are back where the hoot owls bang the chickens and no armory support there are more self serving choices. Remember, he was in Delta and they can't just fly in a trained armourer on a whim when they are on a secret op.

Yeah.... I wonder why it escapes the wannabe internet operators of today that the 1911 has actually seen several wars.

fnfalman
06-19-2011, 01:33
Yeah.... I wonder why it escapes the wannabe internet operators of today that the 1911 has actually seen several wars.

And some of the soldiers in those wars were in battle for months before relief.

Of course these were simple GIs fighting against the Nazi, Imperial Japanese, Red Chinese, North Korean hordes in landscapes that ranged from the frozen Alps, to the North African desert, to the tropic jungle. It ain't like they were badass commandos hunting for tangos.:upeyes:

Goldendog Redux
06-19-2011, 01:52
IIRC LV said that the Wilson CQB is the best out of box 1911 out there.

I guess I am good then if I find myself deep in the bush bangin chickens

aeroengr
06-19-2011, 02:37
Do you think that Special Forces Operators/Commandos/Tango Hunters would go about for months on end without going back to some sort of base?

For stealth ops, yes, several have and will continue to do so.

Everyone has an opinion and agenda, and while his seems to blatantly degrade the 1911, he has some valid points that people here are overlooking or letting their personal bias towards the 1911 get in the way of.

ancient_serpent
06-19-2011, 03:52
I think people are reading too much into what he is saying. Casual shooters may be fine with an out of the box 1911, depending upon brand. I get the impression that he's saying that people shooting a lot more than "average" may experience trouble with the items the author listed. I'm well aware of them and I'm well versed on the weak and strong suits of the 1911 pistol. That said, I've had and seen trouble with just about every make of gun out there, Glocks included.
Remember that Glock is one type of pistol made by one company. Saying "1911" is not a valid comparison as it can be several types of pistol built by many different companies.

faawrenchbndr
06-19-2011, 04:46
Sounds like Glock found it's paid spokesman to perk up sales for the failed Gen 4 models.

bac1023
06-19-2011, 05:44
Sounds like Glock found it's paid spokesman to perk up sales for the failed Gen 4 models.

:animlol:

bac1023
06-19-2011, 05:44
Brian, he had it right. Just had the arrows in the wrong direction.

Glock < HK < 1911

Exactly :supergrin:

drc767
06-19-2011, 05:45
Bottom line is this......if you are in any kind of firefight using a handgun against rifles, you better hope your Will is up to date. I see LV's point on the 1911, but I can also honestly say I have never seen ANY weapon that is 100% reliable. Read the Glock subforums.....people have problems with their Glocks every single day of the week.....just like our 1911's. That being said....if I was having to go downrange on some exotic paid vacation, doing some "secret squirrel, snake-eater" stuff on the taxpayers dime and could pick any rifle and pistol combination I wanted, I would more than likely pick an AK and a Glock 17 (Gen II or III)....and I am a diehard 1911 fan!!!

Hokie1911
06-19-2011, 06:01
Yeah.... I wonder why it escapes the wannabe internet operators of today that the 1911 has actually seen several wars.

Dude, they had an armorer assigned to every squad. Duh.

craig19
06-19-2011, 06:26
Damn few here in the forum could fit a new sear in a shop let alone deep in the bush. He's referring to today's Special Ops whereas they may be "deep" for weeks or months on end with little contact and that is no time for a weapon to "choke."


Right, because Glock parts are scattered all over Iraq and the Stan. Break a part and talk to your local haji, he'll hook you up.:whistling:

joecoastie
06-19-2011, 06:27
Fortunately I don't need "celebrity" endorsements to make me feel good about the guns I own and carry.

Quack
06-19-2011, 06:29
I hear there's a LV Hi-Point model coming out.

Quack
06-19-2011, 06:31
Fortunately I don't need "celebrity" endorsements to make me feel good about the guns I own and carry.

Steven Seagal uses 1911's, so that's good enough for me :whistling:

drc767
06-19-2011, 06:31
Right, because Glock parts are scattered all over Iraq and the Stan. Break a part and talk to your local haji, he'll hook you up.:whistling:

Nah....just doink him over the head and steal his slingshot. :)

GJ1981
06-19-2011, 06:34
I think people are reading too much into what he is saying. Casual shooters may be fine with an out of the box 1911, depending upon brand. I get the impression that he's saying that people shooting a lot more than "average" may experience trouble with the items the author listed.

I love how articles like these get people's panties all bunched up, but the above covers my point of view. I remember the article about the 1911 being a "enthusiasts" pistol...oh boy.

If your pistol is "flawless" after 500-1000 rounds over the course of 4-5 months (some cases years) vs. 1000 rounds in 3-4 weeks, there is a difference. This applies to ALL pistols, I can't help but laugh every time I see it written.

As to the needing tuning, while I don't 100% agree, I HAVE sent a $2500 1911 out to have fixed properly, and will have to do the same with a $3000 when I can.

I remember Bob Rodgers saying this about 1911's, and while I don't take what anyone says as 100% fact, it's hard to argue with his and LV's experience. I remember Hilton Yam having a similar point of view as Vickers...hmm.

http://www.1911pro.com/forum/posting.php?mode=quote&f=11&p=1011
Interesting question, and timely. I had a similar conversation just the other day with a friend and long-time customer who is a full-time firearms trainer at a major PD. He and his fellow trainers see a BUNCH of 1911 pistols on the line, and evaluate pistols as to suitability for duty carry.

They've been burnt so many times that they currently recommend no, zip, zero, nada, 1911 pistols to their department as being suitable for duty as they come out of the box. This includes not only the larger manufacturers, but also the semi custom makers.

Sorry if this gores any sacred cows, but those are the findings from some guys who are "out there" on a daily basis.

I happen to agree with them. I wouldn't even CONSIDER holstering a factory gun without tweaking it.

El_Ron1
06-19-2011, 06:35
http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2005/012/918805_20050113_screen003.jpg

Fedor
06-19-2011, 06:47
I hear there's a LV Hi-Point model coming out.

It also doubles as a boat anchor. :rofl: :rofl:

Hokie1911
06-19-2011, 06:48
I remember Bob Rodgers saying this about 1911's, and while I don't take what anyone says as 100% fact, it's hard to argue with his and LV's experience. I remember Hilton Yam having a similar point of view as Vickers...hmm.

http://www.1911pro.com/forum/posting.php?mode=quote&f=11&p=1011

That's like saying Saleen won't drive a stock Mustang, or Ruf saying he won't drive a stock 911, etc...

GJ1981
06-19-2011, 06:51
That's like saying Saleen won't drive a stock Mustang, or Ruf saying he won't drive a stock 911, etc...

OR someone who's seen enough problems to know better :wavey:

I'd have to dig, but I remember Ted Yost saying how he saw feedramps being cut improperly on many 1911's fairly often, including "semi-customs," but what does he know.

glock2740
06-19-2011, 06:54
Bottom line is this......if you are in any kind of firefight using a handgun against rifles, you better hope your Will is up to date. I see LV's point on the 1911, but I can also honestly say I have never seen ANY weapon that is 100% reliable. Read the Glock subforums.....people have problems with their Glocks every single day of the week.....just like our 1911's. That being said....if I was having to go downrange on some exotic paid vacation, doing some "secret squirrel, snake-eater" stuff on the taxpayers dime and could pick any rifle and pistol combination I wanted, I would more than likely pick an AK and a Glock 17 (Gen II or III)....and I am a diehard 1911 fan!!!
I agree 110%. Although, on a "secret squirrel" mission, I think one would best be served with a stainless Guncrafter No Name over the G17. :rofl:

polizei1
06-19-2011, 07:21
Where do they get this crap? :upeyes:

He's talking about how if you buy a Baer Commanche, you have to send it to Harrison to get it to run right. :rofl:

Quack
06-19-2011, 07:23
He's talking about how if you buy a Springfield EMP, you have to send it to Harrison to get it to run right. :rofl:

Fixed.

polizei1
06-19-2011, 07:27
That's not $2,000 though. Well, wasn't when I bought it! :faint:

Hokie1911
06-19-2011, 07:29
The whole Glock vs 1911 reliability argument is just stupid. One company with one (single) design compared to a gazillion companies with their take on a design. Sorry, but that's just dumb any way you slice it.

joecoastie
06-19-2011, 07:55
Steven Seagal uses 1911's, so that's good enough for me :whistling:

I prefer the Walther PPK, its been combat proven against multiple aggressors armed with assault rifles, SMGs and steel teeth.

Fedor
06-19-2011, 08:03
I prefer the Walther PPK, its been combat proven against multiple aggressors armed with assault rifles, SMGs and steel teeth.

Plus 007 gets more *** than a toilet seat. :cool:

SouthpawShootr
06-19-2011, 08:06
Plus 007 gets more *** than a toilet seat. :cool:

:rofl:That there's hillarious.

Quack
06-19-2011, 08:09
Plus 007 gets more *** than a toilet seat. :cool:

but are his balls as clean as certain member's on the forum? :animlol:

joecoastie
06-19-2011, 08:14
but are his balls as clean as certain member's on the forum? :animlol:
:rofl:

Just imagine the type of women he would attract if he carried a Glock. :shocked:

Quack
06-19-2011, 08:16
:rofl:

Just imagine the type of women he would attract if he carried a Glock. :shocked:

this....

http://jojonews.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Maria-Shriver1.jpg

MD357
06-19-2011, 08:49
I love how articles like these get people's panties all bunched up, but the above covers my point of view. I remember the article about the 1911 being a "enthusiasts" pistol...oh boy.

If your pistol is "flawless" after 500-1000 rounds over the course of 4-5 months (some cases years) vs. 1000 rounds in 3-4 weeks, there is a difference. This applies to ALL pistols, I can't help but laugh every time I see it written.

As to the needing tuning, while I don't 100% agree, I HAVE sent a $2500 1911 out to have fixed properly, and will have to do the same with a $3000 when I can.

I remember Bob Rodgers saying this about 1911's, and while I don't take what anyone says as 100% fact, it's hard to argue with his and LV's experience. I remember Hilton Yam having a similar point of view as Vickers...hmm.

http://www.1911pro.com/forum/posting.php?mode=quote&f=11&p=1011

Actually it's easy to argue with his experience. Not taking away from the validity of his experience or opinion but it's just one with no facts to verify. Wouldn't be good enough for proving something in the world of higher learning. Especially when I see anecdotal examples of high round count 1911s here locally everyday.

Yam has made some good points in the past but I had a tough time taking him REALLY seriously when he called the E-series S&W GTG and preached about the EEs of such when it failed him.

Casual shooters may be fine with an out of the box 1911, depending upon brand. I get the impression that he's saying that people shooting a lot more than "average" may experience trouble with the items the author listed.

and that's where I think internet heros read TOO much in what they see. A properly spec'ed/built 1911s can work good enough for anything that 99.999% of situations anyone here or serving in the military can and will be exposed to. This doesn't mean it has to be expensive. That's been proven through history. Problem is that the guys that played too much Halo in lieu of shooting, dream up scenarios where a 1911 would fail after being dropped behind enemy lines. :upeyes:

GJ1981
06-19-2011, 09:07
Actually it's easy to argue with his experience. Not taking away from the validity of his experience or opinion but it's just one with no facts to verify.


True, but sometimes there is only so much to go from.

We had an ODA team on our FOB, when they were not out, they were on the pistol and rifle range most of the time. My point here is that LV having been SF has spent enough time using weapons that he'd know of any issues, be it with a rifle or pistol. This is where I see the experience be relevant, despite knowing all the details. I'm probably not wording this exactly how I want...oh well.


Yam has made some good points in the past but I had a tough time taking him REALLY seriously when he called the E-series S&W GTG and preached about the EEs of such when it failed him.


I agree, I found it odd he claimed it G2G despite the problems he had with it.

internet heros read TOO much in what they see. A properly spec'ed/built 1911s can work good enough for anything that 99.999%

Yeah, I'm not concerned about playing football on concrete with my pistol. I only care if it can make it through a training class without embarrassing me with failures.

CMG
06-19-2011, 09:13
I found this on TOS. Kind of interesting. I do have to agree with the idea, as what he says about the 1911 is true. The Glock and 1911 are still my two favorite pistol platforms, so the article isn't swaying my current opinion about either. Ironically, the quote in my signature is from Larry Vickers. Ande I agree with it. Although, I bet Larry has never seen or owned a hardchromed lawnmower. :)
:rofl:
Here's the link. http://www.airforcetimes.com/offduty/technology/offduty-gear-scout-pimp-your-1911-060611w/

In that article, Vickers sounds like a nun-smith to me. Only "qualified professionals" can fit parts on a 1911. Funny, my Ed Brown Kobra seems to run just fine, without need for a trip to a different 'smith for tuning.

brisk21
06-19-2011, 09:39
Well, no matter what L.v. says, the actual design of the 1911 is a reliable design. If certain companies don't stick to that design and dont fit their pistols right, then its on them. The gun is reliable the way it was designed.

nolt
06-19-2011, 09:54
Where do they get this crap? :upeyes:

the first time i read the line you quoted i thought the same thing, but when i re-read it i got the idea that their intention was to say:

"if you want something changed/tweaked on it, you will likely need to take it to a smith, which is often pricey"

but through poor word choice it came out sounding like:

"it will likely need post-retail smithing to work properly"

drc767
06-19-2011, 10:36
Those of you that doubt for one second the amount of shooting/training the "High Speed, Low Drag" guys like Delta, ect do have absolutely NO CLUE what you are talking about.....that is ALL they do when they are not downrange. Vickers may be arrogant and you may disagree with his personal opinions, but to doubt the guy's credentials and experiences is downright laughable.

nolt
06-19-2011, 10:52
my only real criticism of the article is the editing.

another thing im not sure about is why they have COLT COMBAT ELITE in bold right before they start discussing features in bold... and then down in the middle of all the features they have a section for SPRINGFIELD ARMORY GI45.

i dont read gun magazines. this kind of stuff may be common i dunno.

fowler
06-19-2011, 11:51
I have seen more .45 1911,s jam than any other automatic. I have seen good ones to,but I have seen many out of the box Glocks run perfect from get go. Also I have a SIg 239 9mm that has never ever jammed once!! I have seen glocks jam very few times and most operater limp wrist. Get one that fits and shoots reliable for you what ever it is and practice with it.

BlayGlock
06-19-2011, 11:54
and that's where I think internet heros read TOO much in what they see. A properly spec'ed/built 1911s can work good enough for anything that 99.999% of situations anyone here or serving in the military can and will be exposed to. This doesn't mean it has to be expensive. That's been proven through history. Problem is that the guys that played too much Halo in lieu of shooting, dream up scenarios where a 1911 would fail after being dropped behind enemy lines. :upeyes:

This. Most people don't spend time in the "Dane-jah Zone". I properly maintain my 1911, keep it clean and lubed, and don't worry about it. I also know how to work in them and I enjoy doing so. I agree with him on the fact that most of these commando-wannabe mouth-breathers have no business using a 1911.

Quack
06-19-2011, 12:01
I have seen more .45 1911,s jam than any other automatic. I have seen good ones to,but I have seen many out of the box Glocks run perfect from get go. Also I have a SIg 239 9mm that has never ever jammed once!! I have seen glocks jam very few times and most operater limp wrist. Get one that fits and shoots reliable for you what ever it is and practice with it.

anything mechanical can and will fail, period.

the only gun that i've (as well as knedrgr since we were taking the same class) seen choke so bad during a class to where it couldn't get back into action has been a Glock. Some how the rear slide plate managed to slide down preventing the gun from firing (going into battery). It was only after the guy came off the range, 5 other guys looking at it and about 5 minutes before they noticed the slide plate.

bac1023
06-19-2011, 12:11
I have seen more .45 1911,s jam than any other automatic. I have seen good ones to,but I have seen many out of the box Glocks run perfect from get go.

Maybe you aren't up with the times, but 1911 reliability has improved a great dealm in the last 10 years. There were many subpar companies building them years ago. As usual, your comparison is asinine since you're comparing one builder to dozens.








.

faawrenchbndr
06-19-2011, 12:22
....Also I have a SIg 239 9mm that has never ever jammed once!! .


I OWNED a P239 that Sig replaced because it jammed, nearly every other round fired!
I've seen & shot numerous G30sf models that suffered from FTRTB.
I've seen the aftermath of a G22 kaBOOM!

Nothing is perfect,..........

mrsurfboard
06-19-2011, 12:41
I have seen more .45 1911,s jam than any other automatic. I have seen good ones to,but I have seen many out of the box Glocks run perfect from get go. Also I have a SIg 239 9mm that has never ever jammed once!! I have seen glocks jam very few times and most operater limp wrist. Get one that fits and shoots reliable for you what ever it is and practice with it.

Tell that to the many Gen 4 owners with malfunction issues.

lawdog734
06-19-2011, 12:48
My glock (3rd gen 23) developed a spur in the firing pin Channel and was doing light strikes on the primer, my no name has yet to malfunction. Just saying.

nolt
06-19-2011, 12:52
ive seen the sun shine while its raining and a monkey ride a half-pipe!

im not sure what any of this means.

limbkiller
06-19-2011, 13:06
Fowler? Thats my last name and I've made enough stupid comments in here. :whistling: We don't need two of us doing that. But you're post is just plain ignorant and you and a certain minister need to PM each other and talk and stay out of here with that crap unless you have a bar of lava which you obviously don't. This is the ball washing, ball busting forum not the under the bridge forum. End of rant.

BigLaw
06-19-2011, 13:17
It may just be me but it seems like it's ok to bring up negative things about other guns but when it comes to talking about 1911s it has to be all positive. There are parts in the article I agree with and parts that I don't but that is the way it should be. Old Vickers has a lot of experience and I respect him for that, in the same light he seems to sway a lot. One thing that came to mind while reading was the part about not being able to fix the 1911 in the field. I doubt this happens much, with either gun, but if something did break on your Glock and you had spare parts it only takes a minute to swap something out, nothing has to be fit or filed on to make it work. There is a lot more skill required to change parts in a 1911. I'm getting ready to pack up my Baers and Wilsons so I can send them off to a gunsmith :supergrin:

joecoastie
06-19-2011, 13:28
Those of you that doubt for one second the amount of shooting/training the "High Speed, Low Drag" guys like Delta, ect do have absolutely NO CLUE what you are talking about.....that is ALL they do when they are not downrange. Vickers may be arrogant and you may disagree with his personal opinions, but to doubt the guy's credentials and experiences is downright laughable.

I don't doubt Larry Vickers' training, experience or expertise or that of anyone else that has been part of the special operations community. However, to me it seems like Vickers pushes the products of whoever his current sponsor is. I don't begrudge him the opportunity to profit from his experience, but it does mean I am more likely to filter through any recommendations that he makes. Just like I'm not going to run out and buy a Glock or SOG knife because R. Lee Ermey is their spokesman.

I also have an issue with this statement that Vickers made. “Make sure you tell guys that the 1911 is a pain in the a**. If they don’t like messing around with the pistol and spending a grand to really get it tuned, then they should forget it.”
I know that "back in the day" that there was a lot of truth to this statement, however nowadays it just doesn't hold up, there are plenty of 1911s being made that work just fine out of the box.

faawrenchbndr
06-19-2011, 13:31
It may just be me but it seems like it's ok to bring up negative things about other guns but when it comes to talking about 1911s it has to be all positive.....


Yep it's all just you.
The group of regulars here in the 1911 forum are some of the most level headed guys on this forum.
Many here own a Glock. Many here own several Glocks. Some use a Glock as their EDC.

So,.....yes, it is all YOU! :supergrin:

GJ1981
06-19-2011, 13:34
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]It may just be me but it seems like it's ok to bring up negative things about other guns but when it comes to talking about 1911s it has to be all positive.

You should have seen the replies when Vickers called the G21 a Dog...oh my. A lot of the replies from the diehard Glocker's were similar, from "He can kiss my ass" to "What the hell does he know."

Oddly familiar here...

Quack
06-19-2011, 13:38
Just like I'm not going to run out and buy a Glock or SOG knife because R. Lee Ermey is their spokesman.


Yep. The gunny's favorite handgun is the 1911.

faawrenchbndr
06-19-2011, 13:39
You should have seen the replies when Vickers called the G21 a Dog...oh my. A lot of the replies from the diehard Glocker's were similar, from "He can kiss my ass" to "What the hell does he know."

Oddly familiar here...

Amazing how the "Glock Fan Boys" seem to forget that. Or the numerous design flaws
Glock has had recently. New guns jamming, four different reissues of recoil
springs, FTRTB problems, ambi-mag safeties jamming causing mags to FALL OUT
of the flippin gun, G36 models that will not feed, G22 models that jam when a light is installed.

They conveniently forget all these examples of PERFECTION! :whistling:

GJ1981
06-19-2011, 13:43
Amazing how the "Glock Fan Boys" seem to forget that. Or the numerous design flaws
Glock has had recently. New guns jamming, four different reissues of recoil
springs, FTRTB problems, ambi-mag safeties jamming causing mags to FALL OUT
of the flippin gun, G36 models that will not feed, G22 models that jam when a light is installed.

They conveniently forget all these examples of PERFECTION! :whistling:

Yeah, I'm afraid to buy a new Glock.

Quack
06-19-2011, 13:48
You should have seen the replies when Vickers called the G21 a Dog...oh my. A lot of the replies from the diehard Glocker's were similar, from "He can kiss my ass" to "What the hell does he know."

Oddly familiar here...

You mean this?



Sand Test

Just had a chance to do a harsh sand test on few different handguns. This test was not scientific but was very enlightening.


Pistols tested were; HK USP Tactical

Customized 1911

rack grade GI 1911

Glock 21


Test consisted of placing each pistol loaded in a Bianchi GI field holster inside a plastic bag with approx 2 cups of fine/medium grit sand ( North Carolina type). Then the bag was shaken vigorously for 10 seconds while holding onto the pistol butt for safety. The pistol was then taken out and 3 mags were fired through the 1911 and 2 fully loaded mags were fired through the HK and Glock - roughly the same amount of ammo. The sand coverage was very good and uniformly covered the pistols. The pistols were loaded in the mode you would expect in a field environment - condition 3 for the 1911, loaded for the Glock and loaded in DA mode for the USP.A test was done dry and lubed with TW 25B. This test represented EXTREME sand conditions - not normal field use, even in sandy conditions.A brief rundown of the results follow;


1)Carrying your gun dry in this environment is a NO GO despite what some will say. All pistols performed worse dry than lubed.


2)All pistols required some manipulation in order to fire - none would function normally straight out of the holster.


3)Overall the HK USP performed the best - the performance of it dry was roughly the same as the customized 1911 but was definately the best lubed. Overall it performed well.


4)The custom 1911 was second - interestingly enough the trigger track was not a real problem - the sand that went in through the ejection port to the bottom lugs area caused the most problems. Once the sand shifted in this area the pistol functioned better.


5)The rack grade GI 1911 was a distant third - the custom 1911 had an 18 pound recoil spring and that helped with feeding greatly vs the rack grade gun. Swap out the recoil spring and it probably would have done better.


6)The shocker of the day - the Glock 21 FAILED terribly. The big problem was failure of the trigger to reset. Also at times the pistol would not fire due to sand in the trigger mechanism. The dry test could not even be completed with the Glock due to this.This surprised all of us as we expected the Glock to do quite well.


Moral of the story; The 1911, even in its customized mode, can get the job done if you set it up to succeed. Lube it right, carry it in the right holster and in the proper mode, and it won't let you down - just like it hasn't for nearly a 100 years.


The HK USP series are good guns - well designed and well made - for service pistols. The ergonomics hurt the pistol dramatically but for an out of the box service pistol/field gun, they get my endorsement.


The Glock 21 is a dog - always has been. It has the rep of being the worst gun Glock makes. I have a Glock 17 and 19 and like them for what they are - but don't get sucked into the Glock hype - they are not magical guns. Remember what your dad said when you were in 3rd grade; don't believe everything you read.

ghostwn
06-19-2011, 13:50
Based on all the posts regarding 1911 and Glocks, I see S&W M&P pistol taking over. :whistling:

GJ1981
06-19-2011, 13:51
You mean this?

Yep, that's the one. My G21, G21SF, and G30 were all turds in one way or the other. Live and learn.

mrsurfboard
06-19-2011, 13:54
You mean this?

:rofl: I hadn't seen that before. I'm betting a few Glock fan boy's heads exploded after reading that. You should repost that over at GG and watch the fireworks.

3rdgen40
06-19-2011, 14:17
I OWNED a P239 that Sig replaced because it jammed, nearly every other round fired!

My Sig 239 9mm has about 2K rounds through it, zero malfunctions.:dunno:

BlayGlock
06-19-2011, 14:21
It may just be me but it seems like it's ok to bring up negative things about other guns but when it comes to talking about 1911s it has to be all positive. There are parts in the article I agree with and parts that I don't but that is the way it should be. Old Vickers has a lot of experience and I respect him for that, in the same light he seems to sway a lot. One thing that came to mind while reading was the part about not being able to fix the 1911 in the field. I doubt this happens much, with either gun, but if something did break on your Glock and you had spare parts it only takes a minute to swap something out, nothing has to be fit or filed on to make it work. There is a lot more skill required to change parts in a 1911. I'm getting ready to pack up my Baers and Wilsons so I can send them off to a gunsmith :supergrin:

Yes it is just you. Everyone here is well aware of the pros and cons of the platform. I can guarantee that if you ask most people here they will tell you that the general shooting population is better off not getting a 1911.

faawrenchbndr
06-19-2011, 14:32
Yeah, I'm afraid to buy a new Glock.

I do not currently own ANY Glocks........

My Sig 239 9mm has about 2K rounds through it, zero malfunctions.:dunno:


Like I said,......everyone makes a bad one now & then!

iLift45's
06-19-2011, 14:36
I really enjoyed the article and like watching his show Tactical Arms on the Sportmans Channel! I own a number of Glocks. Love them! Two things I don't like are the standard trigger pull and the terrible sights! I've replaced all my connectors to the 3.5lb pull and installed a Vanek trigger kit on my Dads 21. By the way he makes some great kits!!

Glocks definitely revolutionized the polymer pistol market and for the average person are pretty easy systems to operate and maintain. Like somebody's signature says there like a shovel. They work and with my experience hardly ever malfunction. I trust mine with my life!

But than there is the fine exotic race car that we all want and this would be a custom 1911 of some make or model. They take a 100 year old design and fine tune it to exactly how we want. There like a piece of rare art we collect but at the same time something we can shoot and know if properly maintained and taken care of will run circles around most pistols made. Until you shoot a good one you don't understand! It surprises me Vickers took the approach he did, but apparently a lot of people in the Special Ops community don't agree. The 1911 is a proven design and combined with the 45 round is an awesome combination. Like Travis Haley and Chris Costa from Magpul say it's a "Professionals" weapon.

Once I get my TRP broken in it will be the one I will always reach for first! I love it!

Quack
06-19-2011, 14:36
Like I said,......everyone makes a bad one now & then!

yep, just look at Ruger, it's usually now rather than then.

BigLaw
06-19-2011, 14:49
Yes it is just you. Everyone here is well aware of the pros and cons of the platform. I can guarantee that if you ask most people here they will tell you that the general shooting population is better off not getting a 1911.

Most of the time it is just me. Just making sure. :cool:

Thank god I own a USP. I am tossing my Glock 21 now. I'm sure glad I saw that. hahaha

faawrenchbndr
06-19-2011, 14:51
Most of the time it is just me. Just making sure. :cool:

Damn,.......I respect that! Not everyone can take criticism that well. :supergrin:

deeHKman
06-19-2011, 14:56
:violin:

faawrenchbndr
06-19-2011, 15:03
this....

http://jojonews.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Maria-Shriver1.jpg


Awwww,.....Mrs Sheletor?! :wow:

:rofl: I hadn't seen that before. I'm betting a few Glock fan boy's heads exploded after reading that. You should repost that over at GG and watch the fireworks.


:whistling:

BigLaw
06-19-2011, 15:04
Damn,.......I respect that! Not everyone can take criticism that well. :supergrin:


It's all cool man. Sometimes you gotta have an outside opinion. I look at so many guns and read so many posts it's mind bottling. Like when things are crazy and it gets your thoughts all trapped like in a bottle

Quack
06-19-2011, 15:06
:whistling:

:animlol:

Mr. Gekko
06-19-2011, 15:11
:whistling:


Well played, sir. :rofl:

Quack
06-19-2011, 15:14
The world according to Larry Vickers...



LAV considers the Eotech, at best, a 3-gun optic. Not ready for prime time.
The Glock 21 is “a piece of http://concealedcarryforum.com/forum/smileys/poop.gif.”
Get an AK before Obama gets elected.
Aimpoint magnifiers are useless
Always hold your carbine as far forward on the handguard as possible.
DO NOT run a forward grip. He says the surefire fore grip lights are the worst possible set-up because it forces you to use it as a broom-handle.
If you MUST use a VFG, get a short one and choke-up on it.
Do not put your rifle on safe when you transition to pistol. Just drop it.
Single point slings are trash. Only useful for changing shoulders.
Bolt hold-open on rifles are over-rated. The click of an empty AK is actually of more combat value, since you are much more likely to discover the AR is empty by pulling the trigger than noticing the bolt hold open. It doesn’t work how it is intended, and lets sh** in the gun.
We worked on the “flash bulb” light technique. The essence of this is that you cannot keep your light on. It must be on only long enough for you to ID a target (.5 sec) and then you MOVE.
Only turn light on when you have to.
A 60-80 lumen light is optimal. Either a 6p or nitrolon on a ring or a scout light.
For transitions when using rifles with white light you should place your carbine under your support arm and deploy your pistol with your strong hand--activating your rifle with your support hand as needed.
Ken Hackathorn says Colt is producing some of the best 1911s ever right now.
Sig Saur QC is in the http://concealedcarryforum.com/forum/smileys/poop.gifter.
Smith M&Ps are the best value. But Smth will probably ruin them if the past is any indication.
XDs are “Bubba guns.” Junk that Bubba buys for cheap and goes to the dump and shoots at rats with.
Hk makes the best engineer, best quality guns in the world-bar none.
Get Two of any pistol you want.
Get at least six mags and rotated them every 6 months.
Trigger weight shouldn’t exceed twice the weight of the gun.
Heavy triggers are safer, but unusable.
Rob Leatham is the best pistol shot ever.
Shooting on the move. Aggressive stance, bend knees, heel-toe forward, toe-heal backwards.
Lateral shooting. Keep square and side-step. Don’t cross feet. Don’t walk and twist your upper body. Exposes side to almost certainly fatal wounds.
Reloads. Keep gun up high and look through trigger-guard.
Use slide release when possible.
LAV says do not reload by forward slapping the mag.
DO NOT RACK YOUR SLIDE AFTER A RELOAD. STAY THE ******* AWAY FROM THOSE WHO RECOMMEND IT.

Quack
06-19-2011, 15:25
He said buttplug

My take on Glock's


Gents

I see the old sand test I was part of years ago has stirred up a hornet's nest over on another forum - I tried to post this thread there but found out I was banned - not sure why that would be so I decided to post this here - in addition it answers several questions I get in nearly every class about Glocks- here goes;

1) IMO the Glock 19 and 17 are the best Glock's made - both are excellent pistols - I own, use, and recommend both

2) I do not recommend the G22, G23, or G21 - based on my experience these pistols have problems (breakage, won't function with rail mounted lights, etc.) and I feel there are better choices in 40 and 45

3) Glocks as a rule are not as accurate as many other service pistols - partly due to the enlarged chamber - this can be fixed with aftermarket barrels

4) I recommend 3 things for a Glock 19 or 17; good sights (Heinie, Novak, 10-8and Warren are my current favorites) , a buttplug to keep debris out of the trigger mech (cheap insurance), and my mag catch made by Tangodown. Optional but highly recommended is frame texturing by Dave Bowie (I like the finger grooves removed also)

5) They are incredibly forgiving in maintenance and lubrication - amazing

6) Incredibly simple to operate - 2 levers/buttons and 1 is optional

7) Always remember the golden rule with a Glock; keep your finger OFF the trigger until you are ready to shoot - if you don't adhere to this expect a loud noise at some point

Bottom line Glocks in 9mm are excellent pistols - they are not my first choice in other calibers however - the S&W M&P has been called a product improved Glock ; this may be true but the verdict is still out as the M&P is a relatively new handgun vs millions of Glock's in service (mostly in 9mm I might add) and S&W has a spotty record in terms of autoloading pistols - time will tell

hope this helps

Larry Vickers

www.vickerstactical.com

mrsurfboard
06-19-2011, 15:25
The world according to Larry Vickers...

Well, I do agree with him on H&K. Their pistols are pretty damn good.

bac1023
06-19-2011, 15:33
Well, I do agree with him on H&K. Their pistols are pretty damn good.

HKs are great.

faawrenchbndr
06-19-2011, 15:42
It's all cool man. Sometimes you gotta have an outside opinion. I look at so many guns and read so many posts it's mind bottling. Like when things are crazy and it gets your thoughts all trapped like in a bottle


VERY true,.......

faawrenchbndr
06-19-2011, 15:44
He said buttplug

YOU would be the first one to pick up on that!
You Ohio boys are starting to make me wonder. :dunno:

lawdog734
06-19-2011, 15:53
You got a pretty mouth boy....

faawrenchbndr
06-19-2011, 15:58
You got a pretty mouth boy....

"I hear banjo music.........paddle faster!"

fnfalman
06-19-2011, 17:37
For stealth ops, yes, several have and will continue to do so.

And on these "stealth" ops, how many thousands rounds are they going to fire through their M1911s that would result in parts breakage?

Hokie1911
06-19-2011, 17:40
And on these "stealth" ops, how many thousands rounds are they going to fire through their M1911s that would result in parts breakage?

He hasn't responded. Must be trying to Prestige on Modern Warfare 2 again. :whistling:

faawrenchbndr
06-19-2011, 17:40
"seed has been planted"

3rdgen40
06-19-2011, 17:43
"seed has been planted"
:rofl::rofl::rofl:

Quack
06-19-2011, 17:45
:animlol:

iLift45's
06-19-2011, 17:47
The world according to Larry Vickers...

I love reading this stuff!! Real interesting views he has there. You think he's getting paid by Glock?? :wow:

mrsurfboard
06-19-2011, 17:48
He said buttplug

Well Vickers is saying what many others have said. The Glock was designed for the 9mm and works best with that cartridge.

fnfalman
06-19-2011, 18:00
I'm curious about these so called experts and professionals saying how the M1911, factory or semi-custom, aren't good enough for duty without a lot of massages and tunings...

How many rounds does a SWAT member go through his customized M1911 in an encounter? How many rounds would a cop that packs an M1911 is expected to go through in an encounter? Five thousand rounds non-stop firefight or five magazines at most?

I'd like to see an M1911 from a reputable manufacturer that can't go through 10-mags in a role without stoppages.

Won't feed hollowpoints? This ain't the 1980s where CCI Flying Astrays were the norm. Hollowpoints nowadays resemble ball ammo's profile.

faawrenchbndr
06-19-2011, 18:00
Well, a friend of mine always says, "if it's got t!ts or tires, you'll have problems with it"


Guess that one does not apply in this case.
How about, "the farther you stray from a 1st Gen G17, the less Perfect it will be!"

faawrenchbndr
06-19-2011, 18:01
I'm curious about these so called experts and professionals saying how the M1911, factory or semi-custom, aren't good enough for duty without a lot of massages and tunings....

The LAPD SIS uses a bone stock Kimber! :wow:

Fedor
06-19-2011, 18:03
He hasn't responded. Must be trying to Prestige on Modern Warfare 2 again. :whistling:

:rofl: :rofl:

Mr. Gekko
06-19-2011, 18:03
The LAPD SIS uses a bone stock Kimber! :wow:

Yeah, but those are worth a 14 hour trip to get one. :whistling:

Quack
06-19-2011, 18:03
all the agencies listed in this thread must not have received the memo reguarding 1911's

http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=109325

Quack
06-19-2011, 18:04
Yeah, but those are worth a 14 hour trip to get one. :whistling:

:animlol:

Hokie1911
06-19-2011, 18:07
Yeah, but those are worth a 14 hour trip to get one. :whistling:

:laughabove: Well played, Spicoli.

joecoastie
06-19-2011, 18:15
I find it interesting that the 1911 was a widely issued sidearm for 70 some years and suddenly in the last several years it has become some kind of mystical weapon that can only be wielded by a "professional". I mean its a semi-auto pistol not a frikkin' light saber that you have to be a Jedi master in order to use.

Mr. Gekko
06-19-2011, 18:16
:laughabove: Well played, Spicoli.

<----- Better???

Quack
06-19-2011, 18:24
I find it interesting that the 1911 was a widely issued sidearm for 70 some years and suddenly in the last several years it has become some kind of mystical weapon that can only be wielded by a "professional". I mean its a semi-auto pistol not a frikkin' light saber that you have to be a Jedi master in order to use.

nah...you don't have to be a Jedi to use a light saber...Han Solo sliced that TaunTaun open and shoved Luke into it.

iLift45's
06-19-2011, 18:32
I find it interesting that the 1911 was a widely issued sidearm for 70 some years and suddenly in the last several years it has become some kind of mystical weapon that can only be wielded by a "professional". I mean its a semi-auto pistol not a frikkin' light saber that you have to be a Jedi master in order to use.

Ok?! But any idiot can run a Glock!!:wavey:

Quack
06-19-2011, 18:34
Ok?! But any idiot can run a Glock!!:wavey:

obviously not :animlol:



As for the Glock, ran a mag through Quack's G24........and hated it. Couldn't shoot that thing for sh1t. Everything high left. Didn't bother to run a second mag through it.

Hokie1911
06-19-2011, 18:35
<----- Better???

Bwaahahahahahahahhaaha. P-E-R-F-E-C-T. :notworthy:

Shipwreck-The-Sequel
06-19-2011, 18:35
The guy is entitled to his opinion. I don't have to agree with everything someone says - even someone I like.

His Tactical Arms show is interesting, and the man can shoot. We all have our own opinion of what we like.

Hell, I like Beretta 92s the best, and get razzed about it somewhat frequently. But I don't care.

Hokie1911
06-19-2011, 18:37
obviously not :animlol:

Ummm, I believe I "ran it" no problem. I just hit 6" high and to the left of my POA because the trigger sucked ballz and the grip felt like I was holding my, well............you know.

iLift45's
06-19-2011, 18:43
Ummm, I believe I "ran it" no problem. I just hit 6" high and to the left of my POA because the trigger sucked ballz and the grip felt like I was holding my, well............you know.

You mean the Glock didn't have a Quack flat trigger?? That's why they give you all those bullets. Cause they know most people won't hit anything, but at least you can scare the sh1t out of them! :rofl:

Hokie1911
06-19-2011, 18:49
You mean the Glock didn't have a Quack flat trigger?? That's why they give you all those bullets. Cause they know most people won't hit anything, but at least you can scare the sh1t out of them! :rofl:

I brought a bunch of .45 ammo for my Brown, and a box of 9mm for Quack's toys. Ran one mag through the Glock, said yeah, no thanks...and ran the rest through his 9mm Guardian. That is a sweet sweet shooter. Could have easily run another box through it. :supergrin:

glock2740
06-19-2011, 18:50
Ok?! But any idiot can run a Glock!!:wavey:
Plaxico Burress seemed to have some issues. :whistling:


:rofl:

Hokie1911
06-19-2011, 18:52
Funny thing is...I ran a mag through Knedrgr's 9mm M&P too. Never shot one before, and blew the center out of the target. Nice tight group. :dunno:

iLift45's
06-19-2011, 18:55
Plaxico Burress seemed to have some issues. :whistling:


:rofl:

Good point!! Forgot about that idiot!! You really think that's how it went down? I find it hard to believe.

faawrenchbndr
06-19-2011, 18:55
Damn that's too funny! You're a regular on a GLOCK forum, and you can not shoot one with a pizz?! :dunno:



:rofl:

Hokie1911
06-19-2011, 18:56
Damn that's too funny! You're a regular on a GLOCK forum, and you can not shoot one with a pizz?! :dunno:



:rofl:

...and have G23 in my username. Bwahahahahha. :supergrin:

joecoastie
06-19-2011, 18:57
nah...you don't have to be a Jedi to use a light saber...Han Solo sliced that TaunTaun open and shoved Luke into it.

Touche

faawrenchbndr
06-19-2011, 19:05
...and have G23 in my username. Bwahahahahha. :supergrin:

You've also got "Washin' Balls" as your Custom User Title! :tongueout:



:rofl:

Quack
06-19-2011, 19:06
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtZKL74LgMg

Hokie1911
06-19-2011, 19:07
You've also got "Washin' Balls" as your Custom User Title! :tongueout:

:rofl:

:wavey:

faawrenchbndr
06-19-2011, 19:08
I kid, I kid! :tongueout:

How was the KC shooting?

glock2740
06-19-2011, 19:09
Funny thing is...I ran a mag through Knedrgr's 9mm M&P too. Never shot one before, and blew the center out of the target. Nice tight group. :dunno:
I love my M&P's. The M&P40 w/CT is my nightstand gun. Recently sold the M&P9 fullsize, since I have the M&P Pro9, which is a better gun. Better trigger by a long shot, inch longer barrel, for better sight radius and a tad more velocity and a fiber optic front sight for better target aquisition. So if you liked the M&P9, you'd really like the Pro9. :thumbsup: Not knocking the M&P9 at all, as I owned one and liked it alot, it was just never going to the range anymore. The M&P40 fullsize might just be the smoothest shooting .40 I've ever shot. Can't go wrong with the M&P line. :cool:

Mr. Gekko
06-19-2011, 19:10
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtZKL74LgMg


:rofl:

MD357
06-19-2011, 19:10
I find it interesting that the 1911 was a widely issued sidearm for 70 some years and suddenly in the last several years it has become some kind of mystical weapon that can only be wielded by a "professional". I mean its a semi-auto pistol not a frikkin' light saber that you have to be a Jedi master in order to use.

Well that AND in those 70 years or so, apparently, there was never any water, mud, dirt, sand etc to be seen.

Hokie1911
06-19-2011, 19:11
I kid, I kid! :tongueout:

How was the KC shooting?

Knedrgr noticed a hitch in my grip. Wrists were a tad loose. Locked it down and my groups tightened up considerably. I freaking love this gun. :hearts:

iLift45's
06-19-2011, 19:11
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtZKL74LgMg

:rofl:

faawrenchbndr
06-19-2011, 19:13
Knedrgr noticed a hitch in my grip. Wrists were a tad loose. Locked it down and my groups tightened up considerably. I freaking love this gun. :hearts:

You know what they say,......."fear the man with but one gun"

Hokie1911
06-19-2011, 19:13
I love my M&P's. The M&P40 w/CT is my nightstand gun. Recently sold the M&P9 fullsize, since I have the M&P Pro9, which is a better gun. Better trigger by a long shot, inch longer barrel, for better sight radius and a tad more velocity and a fiber optic front sight for better target aquisition. So if you liked the M&P9, you'd really like the Pro9. :thumbsup: Not knocking the M&P9 at all, as I owned one and liked it alot, it was just never going to the range anymore. The M&P40 fullsize might just be the smoothest shooting .40 I've ever shot. Can't go wrong with the M&P line. :cool:

As far as plastic goes, I am still a diehard HK fan. The M&P was sooooooooo much better than any Glock that I've ever shot. They definitely did their homework on them.

knedrgr
06-19-2011, 19:15
Knedrgr noticed a hitch in my grip. Wrists were a tad loose. Locked it down and my groups tightened up considerably. I freaking love this gun. :hearts:

just don't lock those wrists when you wash people's balls :rofl:

glock2740
06-19-2011, 19:17
As far as plastic goes, I am still a diehard HK fan. The M&P was sooooooooo much better than any Glock that I've ever shot. They definitely did their homework on them.
They definately feel good in the hand. Maybe there's a reason that several companies make a living at reducing the grip on Glocks? :whistling: That being said, I like my Glocks over all of my other "plastic" guns. :thumbsup: (Although my XD45 is one of the dead last guns I would part with.) :cool:

Quack
06-19-2011, 19:19
They definately feel good in the hand.

i hope you're not talking about balls...

glock2740
06-19-2011, 19:20
i hope you're not talking about balls...
Damn Ohio pervs. :rofl:

BuckyP
06-19-2011, 19:52
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtZKL74LgMg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3t_LDUh5a0

:rock:

bac1023
06-19-2011, 19:55
You got a pretty mouth boy....

"I hear banjo music.........paddle faster!"

:rofl::rofl:

Nakanokalronin
06-19-2011, 20:22
Wouldn't be the first time I've read quotes from Larry Vickers putting down the 1911. He likes to support the 1911 when its about his projects but when it comes time to talk about a duty pistol he suggests anything but. I know quite a few people that think every 1911 on the planet needs an extra $1000-$2000 of extra work to be reliable. My 11 examples didn't need a single extra penny to be reliable out of the box. The fact is that the 1911 is not plug and play when it comes to some parts and from an armorer's POV its easier to drop in a new part and hand it back to the individual.

I can see where he comes from about ease of maintenance but even if someone was out in the middle of nowhere and a handgun's component failed, you would still need to be carrying a bag full of extra parts to keep it running. Many people like Glocks because it takes very little skill to work on them. IMO, a Glock Armorer is just a pin pusher. Its worth becoming a Glock Armorer for the cost reduction in parts but unless you work for a LE agency that issues Glocks its pretty worthless. There's a Glock Armorer at my LGS that talks about his 1911s and all this stuff he put on them. I have no doubt that he has lots of parts on his high dollar 1911s but when I ask him about parts he fit or installed, I find out the most he's done himself was grips, springs and maybe a MSH. When I tell him I just fit a sear/hammer/disconnector or a barrel/bushing he looks at me like I must be lying since he can't do that work himself. Don't be butt hurt if you are a Glock Armorer and don't like what I said, its cool. :cool:

fnfalman
06-19-2011, 21:29
I find it interesting that the 1911 was a widely issued sidearm for 70 some years and suddenly in the last several years it has become some kind of mystical weapon that can only be wielded by a "professional". I mean its a semi-auto pistol not a frikkin' light saber that you have to be a Jedi master in order to use.

Kinda like the Mattel Toy is a "professional's choice" while the AK was designed for illiterate peasants, huh?

Ruggles
06-19-2011, 21:39
Kinda like the Mattel Toy is a "professional's choice" while the AK was designed for short illiterate third world peasants, huh?


Now it's correct :tongueout:

And to the OP.....

According to Google this is Larry:

http://i55.tinypic.com/bc2mw.jpg

http://i53.tinypic.com/2wh0zs5.jpg


I mean if you are going to market yourself as a all knowing spec ops guru (to me that is how he markets himself, not as a shooter but a spec ops expert) at least lay off the Snickers, or jog or maybe break out at least the P45X :tongueout:

But then I do not handle arrogant people very well......no doubt he has a vast reserve of knowledge but as a teacher I would think he could present himself in a less arrogant way. No doubt he has a lot of confidence in what he teaches / knows but to me confidence and arrogance are not one in the same

Don't remember Joe Montana being an arrogant guy..........

MD357
06-19-2011, 22:02
Well he's definately got a tabletop to work on that AK.

aeroengr
06-20-2011, 00:05
He hasn't responded. Must be trying to Prestige on Modern Warfare 2 again. :whistling:

Try working for a living instead of spending all day on GT, like some people around here :whistling:

By the way, how do you know about "Prestige" mode? It wasn't by playing Modern Warfare 2, was it?

And on these "stealth" ops, how many thousands rounds are they going to fire through their M1911s that would result in parts breakage?

Very few, if any. That wasn't my point. Guns can malfunction for reasons other than firing the crap out of them...

youngbuck
06-20-2011, 00:38
"I hear banjo music.........paddle faster!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvIPNiTRHEI




I must admit I am too young to get the joke until further research told me what I needed to know. This is what I thought of first
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSBQJaI1Rfs

bac1023
06-20-2011, 04:13
Well he's definately got a tabletop to work on that AK.

:rofl:

Shipwreck-The-Sequel
06-20-2011, 05:11
Now ya'll are just getting ridiculous. Some of you guys are very childish. All the comments I see about how this forum is the best on Glocktalk, and how its better than the other 1911 forums. I gotta be honest - there have been a few threads recently that have devolved just like this one, and some (not all) of you guys are looking like some real jerks.

vafish
06-20-2011, 06:51
In my experience reporters rarely include the entire interview.

I'm sure Mr. Vickers said the things he is quoted as saying, and I'm also sure there was a lot said that didn't make it into the article.

But there is some truth to what he says.

Can you drop an extractor into a 1911 and have it function perfectly with no tuning or fitting?

I can drop a new extractor and spring in my glocks with no further adjustment needed.

From a SF armorers point of view he is right, the 1911takes more personal attention then a glock, Sig, or hk does. If you have a bunch of guys shooting a lot of rounds through handguns on a regular basis. The 1911 probably is a pain in the butt to take care of.

But for his comment about needing to spend $2,000 to get a reliable 1911, I'll be happy to show him my $350 auto ordnance that has fed every round I have given it except for one reload that looked like it had no crimp and wouldn't fit in the chamber.

Folks need to stop getting so butt hurt when someone else doesn't like their brand of gun.

I don't care when Michael Jordan doesn't endorse my brand of sneakers. Then again I'm an overweight, bald headed, middle aged white guy that only dribbles when he pees. I'm not a military operator either. I generally carry a glock for self defense, but I'd feel very comfortable with a 1911 on my hip instead.

faawrenchbndr
06-20-2011, 06:59
Vafish,.........nice post Sir! :thumbsup:

Hokie1911
06-20-2011, 07:01
Try working for a living instead of spending all day on GT, like some people around here :whistling:

By the way, how do you know about "Prestige" mode? It wasn't by playing Modern Warfare 2, was it?


Let me clue you in, chief. I have a 13 year old son. :thumbsup:

fowler
06-20-2011, 07:48
I am not bashing 1911,s . My first love for the Colt1911 started at age 13 when my dad gave a pristine 1911 Colt back in the late 1960,s. I have shot near 100,000 rds of ammo out of 40 something 1911,s in over 4 decades. They can be picky or they can run good. I like the plain Colt 1911 box stock with ball the best. My carry is a broke in new model Colt 1911-1918 Black army that is box stock. I won,t shoot the old ones no more. It stirs the heart of a 1911 shooter as it did in the 1960,s. Do I think the 1911 is a effective defence weapon. Yes and so is the Glock,Sig and many other models. Ohio boys know there guns and war ranking the 4th biggest producer of troops in all the wars in the 1900,s. Yens may call us hayseeds ,but the evil powers of our enemys don,t want to see us on the battlefield,Godbless America.

BuckyP
06-20-2011, 08:35
Can you drop an extractor into a 1911 and have it function perfectly with no tuning or fitting?


While I do agree with your post for the most part, I can say yes to the above.... if you use an Aftec extractor. :supergrin: I've had them in 5 different guns and they were all drop in and all worked perfect. Wish they made one for my Series 80 though.

lawdog734
06-20-2011, 10:14
I am not bashing 1911,s . My first love for the Colt1911 started at age 13 when my dad gave a pristine 1911 Colt back in the late 1960,s. I have shot near 100,000 rds of ammo out of 40 something 1911,s in over 4 decades. They can be picky or they can run good. I like the plain Colt 1911 box stock with ball the best. My carry is a broke in new model Colt 1911-1918 Black army that is box stock. I won,t shoot the old ones no more. It stirs the heart of a 1911 shooter as it did in the 1960,s. Do I think the 1911 is a effective defence weapon. Yes and so is the Glock,Sig and many other models. Ohio boys know there guns and war ranking the 4th biggest producer of troops in all the wars in the 1900,s. Yens may call us hayseeds ,but the evil powers of our enemys don,t want to see us on the battlefield,Godbless America.

They are just jealous because we have introduced this forum to ball washing, blue waffles, and quack's colon.

Shipwreck- I never bring anything to the table so when I enter a post you can pretty much count on it going only one way... :devildance::rofl:

fnfalman
06-20-2011, 10:27
Very few, if any. That wasn't my point. Guns can malfunction for reasons other than firing the crap out of them...

Really? How?

The pistol would be in a holster of some sort. Unless it's dropped from a 1000-ft cliff, it ain't gonna just break.

Even if it were to get some dirt & sand into it from being carried around, have you ever heard of "weapon maintenance"?

I've jumped out of airplanes and slammed into boulders. Broke my legs but my M16A2 and M9 pistol survived just fine.

fnfalman
06-20-2011, 10:28
While I do agree with your post for the most part, I can say yes to the above.... if you use an Aftec extractor. :supergrin: I've had them in 5 different guns and they were all drop in and all worked perfect. Wish they made one for my Series 80 though.

I've switched out every part on an M1911A1 as part of armorer's training. No tuning needed. The guns worked just fine afterward.

Ruggles
06-20-2011, 10:29
They are just jealous because we have introduced this forum to ball washing, blue waffles, and quack's colon.

Shipwreck- I never bring anything to the table so when I enter a post you can pretty much count on it going only one way... :devildance::rofl:

I rather wash his balls than see that damn colon again :rofl:

DerekMK23
06-20-2011, 10:47
After reading this OP and some but not all of the replies I decided to jump over to his website. He has what seems to be good techniques for shooting, but no man knows what firearm is best for everyman that is just "silly" (emphasis with the lisp). But he definitely is one of the most well known names when it comes to shooting classes. That being said HK is the sh**

fnfalman
06-20-2011, 10:55
That being said HK is the sh**

HK is awesome. It's the only gun manufacturer that I know of that designed a pistol which feeds ammo that was loaded backward into the magazine.

http://www.strategypage.com/gallery/images/reliability.jpg

Ruggles
06-20-2011, 10:58
HK is awesome. It's the only gun manufacturer that I know of that designed a pistol which feeds ammo that was loaded backward into the magazine.

http://www.strategypage.com/gallery/images/reliability.jpg

That is a handy feature, tried it in a 1911 and it did not work at all. Stupid outdated, heavy unreliable 1911s. :supergrin:

glock2740
06-20-2011, 11:38
HK is awesome. It's the only gun manufacturer that I know of that designed a pistol which feeds ammo that was loaded backward into the magazine.

http://www.strategypage.com/gallery/images/reliability.jpg
I don't see how that is a desirable feature? :dunno:

faawrenchbndr
06-20-2011, 11:59
I don't see how that is a desirable feature? :dunno:

It's great for loading mags in the dark, just get 'em in there it WILL be ok.

craig19
06-20-2011, 12:09
HK is awesome. It's the only gun manufacturer that I know of that designed a pistol which feeds ammo that was loaded backward into the magazine.

http://www.strategypage.com/gallery/images/reliability.jpg



:rofl:

Ruggles
06-20-2011, 12:13
It's great for loading mags in the dark, just get 'em in there it WILL be ok.

:rofl:

fnfalman
06-20-2011, 12:18
I don't see how that is a desirable feature? :dunno:

German Engineering, baby!!!

http://a.beining.com/blog/uploaded_images/drop-it-like-its-hot-20060227054320212-772147.jpg

DerekMK23
06-20-2011, 12:27
:rofl:HAHA yeah the good old backward ammo trick! I am sure HK wishes they could take that pic back it will haunt them for the rest of their lives.:rofl: Yeah I am at a loss of words for a comeback.

Hokie1911
06-20-2011, 12:30
Just goes to show that an HK will work, no matter how you load it. :rofl:

Ruggles
06-20-2011, 12:37
:rofl:HAHA yeah the good old backward ammo trick! I am sure HK wishes they could take that pic back it will haunt them for the rest of their lives.:rofl: Yeah I am at a loss of words for a comeback.

Yeah I would guess there were some German curse words uttered the day that ad came out...:rofl:

Hokie1911
06-20-2011, 12:45
"Scheisse! Du verdammter Arschficker!" was probably muttered by someone in marketing at HK. :rofl:

Dave T
06-20-2011, 12:49
I would sure like to know what kind of special spring and follower they put in their magazine that it will accept rounds forward or backward, know the difference and turn the backwards ones around to feed into the chamber. Maybe there is something to that "German engineering" business after all. (LOL)

Oh by the way, I've seen several reports of HKs breaking at the trigger guard. One in a backpack and another in a soft holster when the owner landed on it. Never heard of a G21/30 breaking like that. I have one lightly customized Government Model that I know has fired over 20,000 rounds without a trip back to any gunsmith. I kept track of the round count until it became obvious it was a waste of time. That was at 20,000 about 8 or 10 years ago. I'm still shooting it and it still works.

Dave

fnfalman
06-20-2011, 13:15
People tend to forget, or purposefuly and conveniently forget that autoloading firearms are simplistic mechanisms.

jrs93accord
06-20-2011, 15:20
I never really cared for the guy. He seems a little arrogant. I can appreciate his credentials don't give a damn for his attitude.

Same here. He is good at what he does and he knows it. He is a legend in his own mind. The sad thing is that he expects people to take his word as gospel. There is only one person's Word I take as Gospel and He is not Larry Vickers'.

faawrenchbndr
06-20-2011, 15:35
I have more respect for Dick Marcinko than Larry Vickers.

Ruggles
06-20-2011, 16:08
I have more respect for Dick Marcinko than Larry Vickers.

But his ponytail is just damn silly looking :)

fnfalman
06-20-2011, 16:10
But his ponytail is just damn silly looking :)

And he uses HK P7. Seriously, what sort of operator would use a police handgun?

Ruggles
06-20-2011, 16:15
And he uses HK P7. Seriously, what sort of operator would use a police handgun?

:rofl:

faawrenchbndr
06-20-2011, 16:17
Damn,.......you guys just don't have it together today! :faint:

G27RR
06-20-2011, 16:23
Damn,.......you guys just don't have it together today! :faint:

http://www.mosslidi.com/0aff6960.jpg
Why, Ike, whatever do you mean?

TN.Frank
06-20-2011, 16:51
I've owned a few 1911a1 style pistols including a Norinco and a couple Sistema Colts and other then sights they were all Mil-Spec. and worked fine. Of course sometimes you do find those people who can break a crowbar in a sandbox.

Toby196
06-20-2011, 17:01
Maybe I'm mistaken, but a lot of you guys seem to be confusing the article's author (Rob Curtis) with Larry Vickers. All Vickers says in the article is this-

“Now, I shoot a Glock,” Vickers tells me. “Make sure you tell guys that the 1911 is a pain in the ass. If they don’t like messing around with the pistol and spending a grand to really get it tuned, then they should forget it.”
...
“I’ve had guys sell their pistols after taking my 1911 armoring class because they realized the gun just wasn’t for them,” Vickers says.Just wanted to clarify that, as it seemed like some of you are responding as if everything in the article was something that Vickers said/wrote.

Hokie1911
06-20-2011, 17:07
Maybe I'm mistaken, but a lot of you guys seem to be confusing the article's author (Rob Curtis) with Larry Vickers. All Vickers says in the article is this-

“Make sure you tell guys that the 1911 is a pain in the ass. If they don’t like messing around with the pistol and spending a grand to really get it tuned, then they should forget it.”

Just wanted to clarify that, as it seemed like some of you are responding as if everything in the article was something that Vickers said/wrote.

This is the part that most of us seem to have issue with. If LAV is paid by whoever and says whatever...that's his business. I could care less, but the above posted "quote" is just silly. I don't care what his credentials (and yes I am full aware of what they are). Just one man's opinion, it's just that some take his as the word of God or JMB himself.

Ruggles
06-20-2011, 17:08
But Vickers never had a video game based around him like Marcinko did. :)

I mean a dude with his own video game based on his real badassness is what sets the true operators apart right?

BTW Q-Bert was based on my real world exploits

http://i52.tinypic.com/ta39ys.png

Let me tell you that damn snake was a real PIA to avoid :)

carguy2244
06-20-2011, 18:15
“Now, I shoot a Glock,” Vickers tells me. “Make sure you tell guys that the 1911 is a pain in the ass. If they don’t like messing around with the pistol and spending a grand to really get it tuned, then they should forget it.”
...
“I’ve had guys sell their pistols after taking my 1911 armoring class because they realized the gun just wasn’t for them,” Vickers says.

Taken at face value:

“Now, I shoot a Glock,” Blasphemy!

“Make sure you tell guys that the 1911 is a pain in the ass." A bold faced lie. Keeping a 1911 running is simple - the weapon needs no special attention like frequent cleaning, constant lubrication, tuning extractors, magazine sensitive...

"If they don’t like messing around with the pistol and spending a grand to really get it tuned, then they should forget it.” Ridiculous! Nobody buys a new 1911 and then spends $1000 to get it running 100%. I can personally attest that I've never read anything like that on this sub forum. Spending $1000 to get a 1911 set up properly...like I said...RIDICULOUS!

“I’ve had guys sell their pistols after taking my 1911 armoring class because they realized the gun just wasn’t for them,” Of course he never said that. Or if he did, he was just trying to get his students to sell him their 1911s, so he could corner the market.

NOT....

Wow...I can't believe how torqued up the crowd gets when someone speaks their mind. I love my 1911s for what they are - accurate, crisp triggers, a classic, solid design that's passed the test of time.

All Vickers says Glocks run with much less maintenance, and are more reliable weapons. You guys can hate him as a sell out, but it doesn't change the facts: After all, he is correct.

Ruggles
06-20-2011, 18:29
"All Vickers says Glocks run with much less maintenance, and are more reliable weapons. You guys can hate him as a sell out, but it doesn't change the facts: After all, he is correct."

http://i51.tinypic.com/17v86r.jpg

in a 1911 forum no less..... :)

samuse
06-20-2011, 18:42
All Vickers says Glocks run with much less maintenance, and are more reliable weapons. You guys can hate him as a sell out, but it doesn't change the facts: After all, he is correct.


Pretty much.

I've been shooting Glocks and 1911s for years and I totally agree with the man.


I LOVE 1911s, don't get me wrong, I just think the Glock 19 is a better mousetrap is all.

carguy2244
06-20-2011, 18:43
"All Vickers says Glocks run with much less maintenance, and are more reliable weapons. You guys can hate him as a sell out, but it doesn't change the facts: After all, he is correct."

http://i51.tinypic.com/17v86r.jpg

in a 1911 forum no less..... :)


That's hilarious...

faawrenchbndr
06-20-2011, 18:45
I believe everyone that has half a clue will agree Larry had a very distinguished military career.
He's a hell of a shooter, a good gunsmith, and an accomplished tactics instructor.

His one flaw that I can see,........he glorifies whomever is writing the checks at the time.
When he was pushing his Vickers 1911, they were the cats ass! When he was getting
the ridiculous salary from HK they were the shiznits! Now it's Glock.

I just pray to JMB's mother he does not endorse Taurus next! :faint:

Ruggles
06-20-2011, 18:55
I believe everyone that has half a clue will agree Larry had a very distinguished military career.
He's a hell of a shooter, a good gunsmith, and an accomplished tactics instructor.

His one flaw that I can see,........he glorifies whomever is writing the checks at the time.
When he was pushing his Vickers 1911, they were the cats ass! When he was getting
the ridiculous salary from HK they were the shiznits! Now it's Glock.

I just pray to JMB's mother he does not endorse Taurus next! :faint:

:rofl:

The "Judge Vickers"! FTW :tongueout:

iLift45's
06-20-2011, 18:56
I believe everyone that has half a clue will agree Larry had a very distinguished military career.
He's a hell of a shooter, a good gunsmith, and an accomplished tactics instructor.

His one flaw that I can see,........he glorifies whomever is writing the checks at the time.
When he was pushing his Vickers 1911, they were the cats ass! When he was getting
the ridiculous salary from HK they were the shiznits! Now it's Glock.

I just pray to JMB's mother he does not endorse Taurus next! :faint:

No kidding!! Amazing how that works.

cdunn
06-20-2011, 18:56
I've never seen so many people get worked up over a short quote on one persons opinion.and I'm also a Demo Dick fan.

thecableguy
06-20-2011, 18:59
I've never seen so many people get worked up over a short quote on one persons opinion.and I'm also a Demo Dick fan.

You haven't spent much time in GG have you?:rofl:

HAIL CAESAR
06-20-2011, 19:12
In my experience reporters rarely include the entire interview.

I'm sure Mr. Vickers said the things he is quoted as saying, and I'm also sure there was a lot said that didn't make it into the article.

But there is some truth to what he says.

Can you drop an extractor into a 1911 and have it function perfectly with no tuning or fitting?

I can drop a new extractor and spring in my glocks with no further adjustment needed.

From a SF armorers point of view he is right, the 1911takes more personal attention then a glock, Sig, or hk does. If you have a bunch of guys shooting a lot of rounds through handguns on a regular basis. The 1911 probably is a pain in the butt to take care of.

But for his comment about needing to spend $2,000 to get a reliable 1911, I'll be happy to show him my $350 auto ordnance that has fed every round I have given it except for one reload that looked like it had no crimp and wouldn't fit in the chamber.

Folks need to stop getting so butt hurt when someone else doesn't like their brand of gun.

I don't care when Michael Jordan doesn't endorse my brand of sneakers. Then again I'm an overweight, bald headed, middle aged white guy that only dribbles when he pees. I'm not a military operator either. I generally carry a glock for self defense, but I'd feel very comfortable with a 1911 on my hip instead.

Good post VaFish.

One thing you you folks don't know is about LAV. I have had the privilege of talking to him twice. He loves the 1911 and loves to hate it. BUT...he has a vast knowledge of it as a 1911 smith and at a user level MOST folks can only dream about ( and most do not have enough imagination to dream of what he has done).
You have to step back and realistically look at the 1911 for it's strengths and faults, as both are numerous and heavy, to see where he is coming from.

Most here have never had to be an armorer or a trainer for the Military or LEO agency. I can tell you as a LEO armorer and trainer the 1911 is a pain in the arse. Most cops think of their gun as a tool, no more important than a ballpoint pen and some treat their pen better. The 1911 is a nightmare for them and me. They are better suited with a Glock/M&P than a 1911. Heck....they would be better off with a DAO revolver. LAV has MUCH, MUCH,MUCH more experience than I, but our opinions are the same.

As to the guys cracking on his weight;
LAV at one time not too long ago was one of the premier SF Soldiers in the world and had been doing it for decades. Time and the constant stress on body parts takes it's toll. These guys burn more calories in a day than most do int a week, and they eat like it to keep up the energy. Then one day you retire and you are a middle age man with a beat up body, slowing metabolism, and the appetite of a draft horse. Just now you don't get the exercise you used to.............

It happens fellas, it happens. He may be thicker now but the man is a legend with the things he has done that we know about. GOD only knows how much is still classified. But I will say he is still not a man you want to walk up to, slap in the mouth, and call a pudgy pu*&%. Well, unless you are wanting to commit suicide.:rofl:

faawrenchbndr
06-20-2011, 19:21
Damn fine post 'Caesar!

Most here would have nightmares from the stuff Vickers has done.
You make a damn fine point about maintenance and upkeep with a 1911.

Hokie1911
06-20-2011, 19:26
Yeah, if like Al said, you are maintaining a bunch of them for a bunch of users with little knowledge or interest in the platform. In a real world scenario, that pertains to probably less than 1% of us.

For the other 99% of us, we shoot the platform because we do in fact love it and take the time to learn it's inner workings and maintenance.

thecableguy
06-20-2011, 19:31
Good post VaFish.

One thing you you folks don't know is about LAV. I have had the privilege of talking to him twice. He loves the 1911 and loves to hate it. BUT...he has a vast knowledge of it as a 1911 smith and at a user level MOST folks can only dream about ( and most do not have enough imagination to dream of what he has done).
You have to step back and realistically look at the 1911 for it's strengths and faults, as both are numerous and heavy, to see where he is coming from.

Most here have never had to be an armorer or a trainer for the Military or LEO agency. I can tell you as a LEO armorer and trainer the 1911 is a pain in the arse. Most cops think of their gun as a tool, no more important than a ballpoint pen and some treat their pen better. The 1911 is a nightmare for them and me. They are better suited with a Glock/M&P than a 1911. Heck....they would be better off with a DAO revolver. LAV has MUCH, MUCH,MUCH more experience than I, but our opinions are the same.

As to the guys cracking on his weight;
LAV at one time not too long ago was one of the premier SF Soldiers in the world and had been doing it for decades. Time and the constant stress on body parts takes it's toll. These guys burn more calories in a day than most do int a week, and they eat like it to keep up the energy. Then one day you retire and you are a middle age man with a beat up body, slowing metabolism, and the appetite of a draft horse. Just now you don't get the exercise you used to.............

It happens fellas, it happens. He may be thicker now but the man is a legend with the things he has done that we know about. GOD only knows how much is still classified. But I will say he is still not a man you want to walk up to, slap in the mouth, and call a pudgy pu*&%. Well, unless you are wanting to commit suicide.:rofl:
:goodpost:
Like I said I admire his accomplishments and his knowledge I just don't care for his attitude.

glock2740
06-20-2011, 19:33
But I will say he is still not a man you want to walk up to, slap in the mouth, and call a pudgy pu*&%. Well, unless you are wanting to commit suicide.:rofl:
That may be true, but the real question is, what's he gonna shoot you with? A 1911 or a Glock?:dunno:


:tongueout: :rofl:

thecableguy
06-20-2011, 19:41
That may be true, but the real question is, what's he gonna shoot you with? A 1911 or a Glock?:dunno:


:tongueout: :rofl:

A High Point of course.:rofl:

HAIL CAESAR
06-20-2011, 20:05
Another thing to know about the guy (IMO) is don't read his works....hear them.

He is the type of guy that his words get lost over written words, you have to hear his voice and the inflection. I have the same issues with the computer world as the guys that have my number have told me that they would rather call me or come over than PM me. I don't come across right on the computer and as I am lazy I will type less words than I would say. So it sounds right in my head.....but the typed words are not what I meant.

I could type "Happy Birthday!!" and piss off 5 people, and confuse 5 more.:rofl:

He is truly a nice guy, but a true type A+ personality. ( No kidding, duhh, look at what he has done for a couple of decades). He will let you know what he thinks about a subject, but as with anything the opinion might change tomorrow with more experience.

Another thing about the guy is he is hilariously funny when he talks. Just a damn good guy to talk too.

HAIL CAESAR
06-20-2011, 20:07
That may be true, but the real question is, what's he gonna shoot you with? A 1911 or a Glock?:dunno:


:tongueout: :rofl:

He'll probably just use his thumb.:rofl:

bac1023
06-20-2011, 20:17
I just pray to JMB's mother he does not endorse Taurus next! :faint:

:rofl:

Hokie1911
06-20-2011, 20:21
I actually really enjoy LAV on Tactical Arms. I have the DVR set for it. As much as of a good shooter that he is, Falla outshoots him every week on just about every platform.

HAIL CAESAR
06-20-2011, 20:23
I actually really enjoy LAV on Tactical Arms. I have the DVR set for it. As much as of a good shooter that he is, Falla outshoots him every week on just about every platform.

No matter how good you are....their is always somebody better.:rofl:

glock2740
06-20-2011, 20:36
He'll probably just use his thumb.:rofl:
Or pinky. :cool: Don't get me wrong, I'm a Vickers fan. My sig line is a direct quote of his. :thumbsup:

DerekMK23
06-20-2011, 20:54
I am going to take heat for this but maybe he as paid by Glock to say that. I mean it's the only explanation I can think of and 1911s are a system proven on the battlefield and over 100 years in production it is one of the most well know semi auto pistols. If I didn't have an HK addiction I would buy myself a Springfield 1911.

DerekMK23
06-20-2011, 20:55
Was**

brisk21
06-20-2011, 20:59
Im to the point where I don't so much care what other peoples experiences with 1911s are. Ive had them for years and had nothing but excellence with them. They work great for me, I shoot them well. They are always 100 percent reliable and accurate as hell. If other people don't like them or have bad experiences, sucks to be them.

Im fully comfortable meeting hell at my front door with my 1911.

HAIL CAESAR
06-20-2011, 21:04
I am going to take heat for this but maybe he as paid by Glock to say that. I mean it's the only explanation I can think of and 1911s are a system proven on the battlefield and over 100 years in production it is one of the most well know semi auto pistols. If I didn't have an HK addiction I would buy myself a Springfield 1911.

I doubt he is on the Glock payroll. He likes the Sturmgewehr 44 also, but I don't think anyone is paying him for that.

Ruggles
06-20-2011, 21:11
Im to the point where I don't so much care what other peoples experiences with 1911s are. Ive had them for years and had nothing but excellence with them. They work great for me, I shoot them well. They are always 100 percent reliable and accurate as hell. If other people don't like them or have bad experiences, sucks to be them.

Im fully comfortable meeting hell at my front door with my 1911.

So let me get this straight....you are going to take personal experience over what you read on the internet......

http://i54.tinypic.com/2r5f80j.jpg

Better think again sir....

brisk21
06-20-2011, 21:26
So let me get this straight....you are going to take personal experience over what you read on the internet......

http://i54.tinypic.com/2r5f80j.jpg

Better think again sir....


HAHAHAHAHAHH:rofl:

fnfalman
06-20-2011, 21:41
Wow, I didn't realize that it was that hard to do any sort of service or maintenance on an m1911 platform.

I guess Uncle Sam didn't realize that none of us armorer candidates had Journeymanship in Millwrights when we got sent to Armorer School.

brisk21
06-20-2011, 22:29
Yeah, tearing down a 1911 is pretty simple. They are not nearly as complicated as people think.

aeroengr
06-20-2011, 23:13
Let me clue you in, chief. I have a 13 year old son. :thumbsup:

Good for you. And just as I know nothing of who you are or how you spend your time, don't presume to think you know anything about me just to attempt to make a funny in front of your internet friends. It's pretty 13-year-old-like to do so to a nonconfronting stranger.

Ruggles
06-20-2011, 23:24
Other than the picture thread this one has the biggest post count on this sub forum, maybe that cardboard box thread has it beat, not sure. Either way it sure is a lot of post based off something someone said, does not take much substance to build up momentum around here :rofl:

At least no donuts, waffles or colon have been injured, not yet anyways :tongueout:

glock2740
06-20-2011, 23:30
Other than the picture thread this one has the biggest post count on this sub forum, maybe that cardboard box thread has it beat, not sure. Either way it sure is a lot of post based off something someone said, does not take much substance to build up momentum around here :rofl:

At least no donuts, waffles or colon have been injured, not yet anyways :tongueout:
Yeah, when I started this one, I didn't think it would grow legs like this. :rofl:

Ruggles
06-20-2011, 23:32
Yeah, when I started this one, I didn't think it would grow legs like this. :rofl:

:rofl:

You know what they say, simple minds are easily amused, well at least mine is :tongueout:

Hokie1911
06-21-2011, 05:20
Good for you. And just as I know nothing of who you are or how you spend your time, don't presume to think you know anything about me just to attempt to make a funny in front of your internet friends. It's pretty 13-year-old-like to do so to a nonconfronting stranger.

Coming from someone that has a whopping 63 posts in 15 months on here, I'll take that as a compliment. You clearly don't know the dynamic of this sub-forum. If you are going to get butthurt because numerous people zinged your somewhat ignorant comment and your clear noob outlook on the platform, let me be the first to point you in a different direction.

www.1911forum.com