Violent Flash Mobs....seem to be on the increase! [Archive] - Glock Talk

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LongGun1
06-19-2011, 01:22
http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/06/chicagos_violent_flash_mobs.html

The article is interesting...but the comments even more so! :whistling:


This behavior seems to be on the increase in large & even medium sized cities having a large entitlement population.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71Ci6wUJ7GQ

http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/story?section=news/crime&id=7347188

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xO_Sv8Yj4F4&feature=related


Hopefully...they will not reach the intensity of the 2005 (and later) Paris Riots! :shocked:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_civil_unrest_in_France

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article2983714.ece

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ope3xYSlv4U

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KbmDon21w0&feature=related



Situational Awareness would seem to be key to avoidance...

..but the suddenness of an massive human wave attack from all sides would be 'all out intense'!


Is it even on your 'preparedness radar'?

How to defend against such an attack?





Comments??

Eric SF
06-19-2011, 01:39
I don't see the point of the article. How is segregation is the reason for flash mobs & how would desegregation solve Chicago's problems? There are no examples cited where desegregation has been a success. There have been flash mobs in other cities, although not as bad as Chicago. Do blacks really want to "integrate into the larger society" with government pushing them? How would such a thing be accomplished?

Arming the populace is a better solution by eliminating Illinois' horrible gun laws.

kirgi08
06-19-2011, 03:06
http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/06/chicagos_violent_flash_mobs.html

The article is interesting...but the comments even more so! :whistling:


This behavior seems to be on the increase in large & even medium sized cities having a large entitlement population.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71Ci6wUJ7GQ

http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/story?section=news/crime&id=7347188

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xO_Sv8Yj4F4&feature=related


Hopefully...they will not reach the intensity of the 2005 (and later) Paris Riots! :shocked:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_civil_unrest_in_France

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article2983714.ece

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ope3xYSlv4U

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KbmDon21w0&feature=related



Situational Awareness would seem to be key to avoidance...

..but the suddenness of an massive human wave attack from all sides would be 'all out intense'!


Is it even on your 'preparedness radar'?

How to defend against such an attack?





Comments??

Yes,my friend it is.Defense,not being there.As you said S/A has gotten me outta trouble more than once.We live in a area of about 100k folks,we know what ta avoid and how ta do it.When we do go ta "town" we take our F250,for the simple fact it's our toughest rig and we carry enough ta get back home if needed.

This nations on the verge of implosion and if it does happen,I'd rather be home than not.'08.


:goodpost: LG-1.

LongGun1
06-19-2011, 03:22
I don't see the point of the article. How is segregation is the reason for flash mobs & how would desegregation solve Chicago's problems? There are no examples cited where desegregation has been a success. There have been flash mobs in other cities, although not as bad as Chicago. Do blacks really want to "integrate into the larger society" with government pushing them? How would such a thing be accomplished?



The majority of posters in the comments section seem to be in agreement with your assessment! :supergrin:




Arming the populace is a better solution by eliminating Illinois' horrible gun laws.

Except that would very likely lessen the number of entitlement voters the Democratic Party so desperately needs! :whistling:






This nations on the verge of implosion and if it does happen,I'd rather be home than not.'08.



Personally...I also feel 'push' is rapidly headed towards 'shove'..

..especially when considering the dire financial straits FedGov is in..

..combined with the (seemingly) imminent decline/collapse of the dollar as world reserve currency!


A time of extreme suckiness may be right around the corner...

..as entitlement takes on an entirely new meaning! ;)

MadMonkey
06-19-2011, 04:02
This is why I carry at least 32 rounds and stay in Yellow :whistling:

Condition Yellow for two reasons, actually. Situational awareness, and the fact that I have no problem beating a hasty retreat from an iffy situation :rofl:

rj1939
06-19-2011, 04:41
The short answer is: Chicago is an excellent place to do this, gun laws are good for the criminal (political and otherwise)
Much like people getting off planes in Miami were the target some years back, pretty safe bet that they wouldn't be "packing".

The long answer is well...........too long.

cowboy1964
06-19-2011, 14:44
Much like people getting off planes in Miami were the target some years back, pretty safe bet that they wouldn't be "packing"

So now the percentage of people getting off planes packing in Miami has suddenly skyrocketed?

powderhead
06-19-2011, 15:17
This is why I carry at least 32 rounds and stay in Yellow :whistling:

Condition Yellow for two reasons, actually. Situational awareness, and the fact that I have no problem beating a hasty retreat from an iffy situation :rofl:

You make a good case for high caps.

MadMonkey
06-19-2011, 15:41
You make a good case for high caps.

Thinkin' I need to get a double mag pouch soon... 39 rounds of 9MM for the USPc and 6 more in the LCP should cover most eventualities :embarassed:

If I was expecting to get jumped by one person, I wouldn't go out that night. I watch what the world throws out, and plan accordingly.

mac66
06-19-2011, 17:40
My son lives in Chicago. When I asked him about it he said, "What? Oh yeah that. Media making a big deal out of a few incidents." He did say that he has a few clients in the area where the flash mob thing happened but said most of his clients carry guns. Guns in Chicago? Apparently it is a well kept secret that many average people ignore the gun ban. Kind of a don't ask, don't tell thing going on.

UneasyRider
06-19-2011, 20:29
...This nations on the verge of implosion and if it does happen,I'd rather be home than not.'08.

:goodpost: LG-1.

I could not agree with you guys more, and it won't be pretty when it does.

So now the percentage of people getting off planes packing in Miami has suddenly skyrocketed?

Miami, what a crazy city! What the state of Florida did was to ban rental car identification stickers and tags. Now they have to follow you out of the international terminal.

This is why I carry at least 32 rounds and stay in Yellow :whistling:

Condition Yellow for two reasons, actually. Situational awareness, and the fact that I have no problem beating a hasty retreat from an iffy situation :rofl:

Good advice, I already take it.

wjv
06-19-2011, 20:54
You make a good case for high caps.

Unfortunately, in many of the cities where these events are happening, the powers that be would rather prosecute YOU for defending yourself, than the "poor misunderstood youths" who are terrorizing the city.

WolfNotSheep
06-19-2011, 21:58
Be ready to respond with overwhelming violence, or by running....

AlexHassin
06-19-2011, 21:59
and one of these days someone writting articals will figure out what a flash mob actully is. reall one, no need for a gun. these i whould more discribe as multiple attacker situations

RWBlue
06-19-2011, 22:03
Hmm, It doesn't appear to happen in places with CCW.

Kevin108
06-19-2011, 22:09
Flash mobs are based in attitudes and activities many young people are attracted to: social networking, artistic expression and civil disobedience. The "flash mob" antics started out as what most would consider artistic ventures. That may still be what most are intended as but for a cunning criminal, the flash mob makes an excellent diversion for crime to be carried out unnoticed. Also, if the even has a mob costume, it could make an ideal situation for a criminal to blend in and escape.

HAMMERHEAD
06-19-2011, 23:45
So now the percentage of people getting off planes packing in Miami has suddenly skyrocketed?
I think he's referring to the surge in crime against tourists that occurred after FL residents got CCW rights.
Crooks started targeting tourists because they knew they would not be armed. Anyone in a rental car was a target for the same reasons.

kirgi08
06-20-2011, 00:42
Any excuse ta riot,for personal gain or a political statement.Roll the dice,they do.'08.

lawman800
06-20-2011, 01:49
Take them down hard and fast to show you mean business. Just like keyboard commandos, most are cowards when push comes to shove.

Arvinator
06-20-2011, 12:54
Thank God I live in Arkansas! While we do have our problems, a band of thugs could be greeted with extreme levels of bad attitude towards this kind of stuff. I live in a small town from paycheck to paycheck, but I do not have to deal with this walking trash, but I do keep plenty of guns & ammo on hand in case all havoc breaks loose.

UneasyRider
06-20-2011, 13:03
Thank God I live in Arkansas! While we do have our problems, a band of thugs could be greeted with extreme levels of bad attitude towards this kind of stuff. I live in a small town from paycheck to paycheck, but I do not have to deal with this walking trash, but I do keep plenty of guns & ammo on hand in case all havoc breaks loose.

You got that right brother.

BullnTerriers
06-23-2011, 17:57
Technology expands the realm of the possible.

Just like owning a gun, this is a social tool that can be employed by either/both "bad guys" and "good guys."

barbedwiresmile
06-23-2011, 18:35
Flashmobs in my 'hood'. Please.

UneasyRider
06-23-2011, 19:20
Flashmobs in my 'hood'. Please.

I sure hope I'm on your side of the barbed wire.

Bilbo Bagins
06-24-2011, 08:03
I don't see the point of the article. How is segregation is the reason for flash mobs & how would desegregation solve Chicago's problems? There are no examples cited where desegregation has been a success. There have been flash mobs in other cities, although not as bad as Chicago. Do blacks really want to "integrate into the larger society" with government pushing them? How would such a thing be accomplished?

Arming the populace is a better solution by eliminating Illinois' horrible gun laws.

Yea that is a bunch of BS. Philadelphia was very segregated, years ago. Just a quick example in South Philly when I was a kid, it was Front to 4th street Irish, 5th to 8th Street was Black with pockets of Vietnamese and Latinos, then 8th to 20th street was Italian, then 20th to 28th was Black again, then a pocket of Irish again between 28th and 31st. When I was a kid you were may be risking a fight by entering the wrong neighborhood. Gangs and turf wars existed, Black would fight whites, and Irish would fight Italians, and sometimes the Vietnamese and PR kids would join in and would try to flex their muscles.

Today section 8 housing and anti descrimination laws change all that. Philadelphia is desegerated. There are no Irish gangs, or italian gangs, patroling their neighborhood. The ethnic white neighborhoods are no more. There are black families in EVERY neighborhood. HOWEVER the black neighborhoods are still living by the old rules, they STILL have gangs, and they still hold their territory, and attack tresspassers.

What Black urban Flash Mob attacks are, is a black gang flexing its muscle in a predominately white area. The only majority white areas that exist like that in New York, Philadelphia, and Chicago is the business districts, the tourist areas and the affluent neighborhoods, like Midtown Manhattan, Chicago's beach area, Center City and South Street in Philly.

What the author of the article needs to do is to step back and think about what he is saying. Black youths are forming gangs and using social networks to plan and execute attacks on innocent people because of the color of THEIR skin. That actors are Racist, not a victim of it.

It is the fall of Rome. I don't know about Chicago and NYC, but I know people are fleeing Philly in record numbers, and for the first time ever, blacks hold the majority in overall population. Meanwhile violent crime contines to spike in EVERY neighborhood. That says a lot.

Aceman
06-24-2011, 08:21
The article and the author are just tragically bad.

I hear you Bilbo. I grew up close enough to Philthydelphia to what you are talking about.

Everyone take a deep breath, or a xanax, and think about what you are reading. for people who call people sheep, you people sure can sheep about some of the most bogus BS imaginable....and that article is 98%+ imagined BS.

quake
06-24-2011, 10:53
Thank God I live in Arkansas! While we do have our problems, a band of thugs could be greeted with extreme levels of bad attitude towards this kind of stuff. I live in a small town from paycheck to paycheck, but I do not have to deal with this walking trash, but I do keep plenty of guns & ammo on hand in case all havoc breaks loose.

Roger that. Other than Pine Bluff (which has a violent crime rate higher than NYC and almost equal to Los Angeles), that crap just isn't tolerated much.

Of course, "he needed killing" is still a valid legal defense around here as well... :cool:

LongGun1
06-27-2011, 18:51
The article and the author are just tragically bad.

I hear you Bilbo. I grew up close enough to Philthydelphia to what you are talking about.

Everyone take a deep breath, or a xanax, and think about what you are reading. for people who call people sheep, you people sure can sheep about some of the most bogus BS imaginable....and that article is 98%+ imagined BS.


It is not the article, nor the author that really concern me.

Not even the current state of the "Violent Flash Mob"...which currently is extremely rare in the US.


I look at trends..

..and apply 'what was & what is'...

...to what may or will be! :whistling:


Just look at the recent sudden events in the Middle East....

..decades old, hard line, dictatorships either already fallen or under siege..

..and an essential component are the anonymity of mobs combined with modern social media!


Then you have Alinsky's comrades 'No-Bama & Company' rubberstamping radical islamic anarchy..

.. & calling it "Democracy"! :faint:


Now....Imagine an 'on-demand' equivalent of the Watts or Rodney King Riots...

..no longer needing Mass Media to instigate after an event & then fan the flames..

..but instead instigated without the majority of the more civil populace even being aware of the nexus...

..and self-sustaining without government or media intervention!


I can see these events (both protest and/or crime based) becoming more commonplace in US society..

..and innocent citizens getting caught unawares in the midst of them!


Sudden Violent Tornados of civil unrest...:shocked:

.. where peace & calm existed just moments before! :faint:

UneasyRider
06-27-2011, 19:56
:goodpost: Interesting take LongGun1. When things start to get tough on the general population as they will, your take on this would make complete sense when you are talking about the entitlement classes.

kirgi08
06-27-2011, 20:02
I'm gonna :bump: the hand outs thread.'08.

quake
06-27-2011, 21:39
I'm gonna :bump: the hand outs thread.'08.

Oh jeez...

kirgi08
06-27-2011, 22:54
Why.'08. :dunno:

Granted there was a ton of BS in it but,it does tie in nicely with the current trends.It's gone the way of the dodo afaik. :sad:

lawman800
06-28-2011, 07:41
Bump the epic ones where the libtard zombies just don't get it... Oh wait, that's all of them.

quake
06-28-2011, 09:51
Why.'08. :dunno:

Granted there was a ton of BS in it but,it does tie in nicely with the current trends.It's gone the way of the dodo afaik. :sad:

Poorly presented sarcasm on my part. Should have been "Oh, jeez... :okie: :supergrin:" or similar. I actually kind of enjoyed that thread; it got people's real beliefs and personalities out in the open.

Dexters
06-28-2011, 10:25
Situational Awareness would seem to be key to avoidance...

..but the suddenness of an massive human wave attack from all sides would be 'all out intense'!

How to defend against such an attack?

Comments??

Pepper spray, bear spray, gun, lawyer and pray.

Not a new phenomenon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Park_Jogger_case

LongGun1
08-09-2011, 00:09
And this is the type of thuggery + social media "flash mobs" I am concerned about...

Now parts of the UK are ablaze using these tactics!


Britain Burns: Riots Spread Through U.K. Cities

The small groups of youths -- most with their heads and faces covered -- used SMS messages, instant messaging on BlackBerry smartphones and social media platforms such as Twitter to coordinate their attacks and stay ahead of the police.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/08/09/uk-police-arrest-over-200-as-london-riots-continue/#ixzz1UVcD9oOO




And in the US.....

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/08/09/philly-announces-youth-curfew-to-combat-violent-flash-mobs/?test=latestnews

Philadelphia Mayor Michael Nutter announced a 9:00 p.m. weekend curfew for minors Monday, as the city continued its fight against "flash mobs" of violent youths that have plagued the city for the past two years.


As recently as July 29, a mob of youths as young as 11 gathered and attacked strangers at Center City.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/08/09/philly-announces-youth-curfew-to-combat-violent-flash-mobs/#ixzz1UVlI0Bks

Shinesintx
08-09-2011, 00:36
:goodpost: Interesting take LongGun1. When things start to get tough on the general population as they will, your take on this would make complete sense when you are talking about the entitlement classes.

Agree, that was good...and a bit thought provoking.

lawman800
08-09-2011, 00:57
Lash out as violently as you can to defend yourself and latch onto one guy and take him to the ground and rip his eyes out and mutilate him as violently as you can while screaming at the top of your lungs with bloodlust. That's about the only thing you can do to freak some of these animals out and get them to back off. It's your life or one of theirs and I am not going down without taking at least one of the mofos with me.

TangoFoxtrot
08-09-2011, 02:47
Simple solution to a this problem....Act like a wild animal, threat them as such and if need be put them down...simple

jdavionic
08-09-2011, 03:11
I posted this in another thread, but it's worth re-posting. Gabe Suarez posted an article "The Flash Mod Attack - how to defend"
http://www.warriortalknews.com/2011/06/the-mob-attack-what-to-do-to-defend.html

lawman800
08-09-2011, 08:20
Ah yes, gabe...

Bilbo Bagins
08-09-2011, 08:55
And this is the type of thuggery + social media "flash mobs" I am concerned about...

Now parts of the UK are ablaze using these tactics!







And in the US.....

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/08/09/philly-announces-youth-curfew-to-combat-violent-flash-mobs/?test=latestnews

Yea that 9pm curfew thing is a joke. The punishment if you get picked up is a call to your parents. Ohh junior was wandering the streets attacking people again. :upeyes:

If they had good parent they would not be wandering the streets at night in the first place.

UneasyRider
08-09-2011, 08:59
Yea that 9pm curfew thing is a joke. The punishment if you get picked up is a call to your parents. Ohh junior was wandering the streets attacking people again. :upeyes:

If they had good parent they would not be wandering the streets at night in the first place.

We wouldn't want anyone's child to be hurt for a little prank would we?

lawman800
08-09-2011, 09:41
You are assuming there are parents in the picture at all.

wjv
08-09-2011, 10:45
Crooks started targeting tourists because they knew they would not be armed. Anyone in a rental car was a target for the same reasons.

Going from memory here: Most of the rental companies had stickers on their cars that easily identified them as rentals.

Once CCW passed the thugs would look for the cars with those stickers and target them.

Don't remember if it was public pressure or laws being passed that got the companies to remove those stickers.

One might postulate that another good approach would have been to put a 50ish, maybe pushing sixty undercover "couple" into a rental and drive it around the high crime areas trolling for the criminals. Would love to see the look on the thugs faces when "Grandma" and "Grandpa" pull out some MP5s.

wjv
08-09-2011, 10:54
I posted this in another thread, but it's worth re-posting. Gabe Suarez posted an article "The Flash Mod Attack - how to defend"
http://www.warriortalknews.com/2011/06/the-mob-attack-what-to-do-to-defend.html

He recommends "a modern high capacity weapon"

But I'm thinking that revolvers don't leave shell casing at the scene. :whistling:

But seriously. While I agree with his "Avoid if you can" and "Don't go to stupid places with stupid people to do stupid things" but his idea to start blasting at a mob with "52 rounds" is a dangerous recommendation. If so, you will do a lot more than reduce them into a "fleeing group".

Given the PC nature of today's Justice system, expect to be charged with a capital crime. . .

Not saying that you shouldn't use a firearm. But you should be able to justify every pull of the trigger.

UneasyRider
08-09-2011, 12:45
Going from memory here: Most of the rental companies had stickers on their cars that easily identified them as rentals.

Once CCW passed the thugs would look for the cars with those stickers and target them.

Don't remember if it was public pressure or laws being passed that got the companies to remove those stickers.

One might postulate that another good approach would have been to put a 50ish, maybe pushing sixty undercover "couple" into a rental and drive it around the high crime areas trolling for the criminals. Would love to see the look on the thugs faces when "Grandma" and "Grandpa" pull out some MP5s.

We had license plates that said lease or rental, I can't remember exactly. So they passed a no identifier law but since they put barcodes all over a rental car it's not to hard to tell.

LongGun1
08-09-2011, 12:53
The UK is really taking it up the...um....bullocks! :whistling:

British traditional policing methods don't seem to be effective with these animals!

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/08/09/uk-prime-minister-recalls-parliament-to-deal-with-sickening-rioting-crisis/

Warp
08-09-2011, 13:03
But seriously. While I agree with his "Avoid if you can" and "Don't go to stupid places with stupid people to do stupid things" but his idea to start blasting at a mob with "52 rounds" is a dangerous recommendation. If so, you will do a lot more than reduce them into a "fleeing group".

I read the linked article. I saw no recommendation that could be described this way. What are you referring to? Quote and link please.

wjv
08-09-2011, 13:32
I read the linked article. I saw no recommendation that could be described this way. What are you referring to? Quote and link please.

>>> yields a sum total of 52 rounds. Figure three rounds per man, and you can reduce an angry mob of panga swinging killers into a fleeing group of bloodied bad guys.

LongGun1
08-09-2011, 13:33
I posted this in another thread, but it's worth re-posting. Gabe Suarez posted an article "The Flash Mod Attack - how to defend"
http://www.warriortalknews.com/2011/06/the-mob-attack-what-to-do-to-defend.html



Great article! :thumbsup:

Looks like others are concerned about this troubling trend as well..

..just look at the comments section! :supergrin:


>>> yields a sum total of 52 rounds. Figure three rounds per man, and you can reduce an angry mob of panga swinging killers into a fleeing group of bloodied bad guys.

A group of panga wielding bad guys coming at me gets one round per customer..

..as quick as I can serve them....seconds for those left standing!!

And it would not be wise to remain on the scene of the attack to wait for police to arrive..

..as likely they are back at the station, eating donuts & drinking coffee, watching the situation unfold on TV!!

As far as the courtroom..

..it is the last thing on your mind when you are surrounded by a gang of thugs with weapons..

..at least it was for me! :shocked:

AM I ABOUT TO DIE??


Knives & sharpened "rakes" at my throat & in my ribs..

..while my pockets were being emptied of anything of value..

..trapped in a dark basement by so-called "disenfranchised African American youth".. :upeyes:

..big enough to be linebackers & old enough to be in college! :steamed:


9th grade in high school was a loong time ago..

..but I got schooled on something that day that I will never forget..

..I never again plan to be in a situation where my life is at the mercy of a group of animals!



The times since where similar life threatening situations (group of thugs) presented themselves..

..my situational awareness & attitude combined with a firearm/weapon resolved the situation without violence.

But one of those times in high school 10th grade & also while in Houston in the early 1990's did involve running! :rofl:



That being said....

I feel one day that will not be enough..

..not nearly enough..

..& I hope that day I am on my "A Game"..

..with whatever tools necessary to bring the encounter to a successful conclusion!




And it looks like another thread is heading in this direction also...

What happens when the hand-outs stop? ....this.....

http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/...lash_mobs.html






YMMV

Warp
08-09-2011, 15:22
>>> yields a sum total of 52 rounds. Figure three rounds per man, and you can reduce an angry mob of panga swinging killers into a fleeing group of bloodied bad guys.

I notice you conveniently left out the following sentence:

"Draw it and yell, "Get The ******* Back!" If they do, run away. If they do not, shoot the first man in the face. The rest will take care of itself. "

wjv
08-09-2011, 15:57
My point was. . . If you pull the trigger on multiple targets such as a mob, you darn well better be able to justify every shot. .

Regarding your comment, the author can't have it both ways.

First part he says '3 bullet for each" bla bla bla.

Then he backs off and says to yell stop, and then shoot the leader in the face if yelling doesn't work. .

I can't say: Our government doesn't work anymore so we should just kill all the elected officials. . . Well, before I kill them I'll give them a chance to vote for what I want.

Adding sentence #2 does not negate the fact that sentence #1 is a stupid and/or illegal thing to say. . .

Warp
08-09-2011, 16:01
My point was. . . If you pull the trigger on multiple targets such as a mob, you darn well better be able to justify every shot. .

Regarding your comment, the author can't have it both ways.

First part he says '3 bullet for each" bla bla bla.

Then he backs off and says to yell stop, and then shoot the leader in the face if yelling doesn't work. .

I can't say: Our government doesn't work anymore so we should just kill all the elected officials. . . Well, before I kill them I'll give them a chance to vote for what I want.

Adding sentence #2 does not negate the fact that sentence #1 is a stupid and/or illegal thing to say. . .

He didn't say to shoot the leader in the face, he said to shoot the closest one. Neither seems like a bad idea, though.

It is possible you will shoot the first guy in the face and the second and third guys will just have all the more reason to tear you apart. Then the extra rounds would be nice to have. Hopefully the rest would scatter or at least back off. But if not, well, at least you won't go down for lack of shooting back.

Also don't forget he did not specifically recommend "52 rounds". He said a modern high capacity with a couple of spare mags and then pointed out that their company gun, a Glock 17, comes out at 52 rounds under that setup. I would think that most people would have fewer rounds than that because they 1) Won't conceal carry a full size, at least not most of the time 2) Might have a different caliber that holds less in the same size firearm

UneasyRider
08-09-2011, 18:34
I have seen an amazing act of brutality stop a fairly large group in person, it's the same feeling you get as when you see the little alien pop out of the guy's rib cage in the movie.

jdavionic
08-09-2011, 19:01
Great article! :thumbsup:

Looks like others are concerned about this troubling trend as well..

..just look at the comments section! :supergrin:



I agree with most of what he says in there. However I don't agree with shooting the first one in the face. I think shooting them in the hip multiple times will have a more stunning affect on the others. It offers a bigger target vs. the head shot. Shots into the hip will likely cause the individual to drop in pain with lots of bleeding. Psychologically, I think when his buddies see him screaming on the ground they will have more preoccupation with him vs. if he just drops dead.

Just my opinion though.

Dexters
08-09-2011, 19:06
I agree with most of what he says in there. However I don't agree with shooting the first one in the face. I think shooting them in the hip multiple times will have a more stunning affect on the others.

Hitting a moving head in a stressful situation would be difficult.

But, his friends seeing his brains coming out the back of his head would be a good visual deterrent.

jdavionic
08-09-2011, 19:11
But, his friends seeing his brains coming out the back of his head would be a good visual deterrent.

No science behind the idea of shooting into the hip. I just think if you see a head shot, your brain immediately moves absorbs 'he's dead' and the goes immediately into the next actions. If you see and hear your buddy screaming, there is more for the brain to do before it moves on to consider the next actions in the attack.

Like I said, I might be completely wrong here.

Warp
08-09-2011, 19:13
Not a bad idea. The pelvic girdle is a legitimate target for stopping a threat. It's a relatively large, very important load bearing structure and it doesn't move and bob like a head + you have more leeway for landing some kind of a hit even if the round misses the target area.

Dexters
08-09-2011, 19:19
If you see and hear your buddy screaming, there is more for the brain to do before it moves on to consider the next actions in the attack.



I agree with your pelvic idea. I wouldn't go for a head shot under a stressful situation.

G29Reload
08-09-2011, 19:20
Not a bad idea. The pelvic girdle is a legitimate target for stopping a threat. It's a relatively large, very important load bearing structure and it doesn't move and bob like a head + you have more leeway for landing some kind of a hit even if the round misses the target area.

This +1000

Pelvic girdle, confluence of major blood vessels, and takes the wheels out from under him.

lawman800
08-09-2011, 19:46
I think dumping 52 rounds into the dead but twitching carcass of the head turd would be a poignant statement.

(I carry 2 33-round mag reloads for my G34)

LongGun1
08-09-2011, 19:50
I think dumping 52 rounds into the dead but twitching carcass of the head turd would be a poignant statement.





Hey...tell us how you really feel!! :tongueout: :rofl: :supergrin:

lawman800
08-09-2011, 20:15
I like this quote as wyatt earp puts the gun on fred's head, "your friends might get met in a rush but not before I make your head into a canoe."

Unimaginable, ultra violent mayhem and brutality where you literally tear one guy apart in front of his cohorts is the only thing you can do.

lawman800
08-09-2011, 20:22
As for pelvic shots, it is definitely a viable target and it is taught in our training that if your rounds aren't working because the guy is just whacked out beyond belief on pcp or whatever, then shoot the pelvis and collapse him.

However, the pelvic bone is very strong and handgun rounds might not always be effective in collapsing the bone structure. It will hurt, but you might not see the house of cards effect that you think, so be prepared. Also, mechanical collapse is not the same as physiological shutdown which is what we are after. So, the guy is on the ground but if he has a gun, he can still shoot at you, our even crawl around and grab onto you to tangle you up. That's when you need to pump 52 rounds into his head and then stomp on him a few times to make sure.

That's not how I really feel. I'm holding back my true feelings. My therapist said it was bad for me.

lawman800
08-09-2011, 20:22
I think dumping 52 rounds into the dead but twitching carcass of the head turd would be a poignant statement.

(I carry 2 33-round mag reloads for my G34)

LongGun1
08-09-2011, 20:40
How about a stirring round of applause for Night #4 of Lawless Mayhem... :upeyes:

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/08/09/uk-prime-minister-recalls-parliament-to-deal-with-sickening-rioting-crisis/

...aka "UK Burning Part IV"! :shocked:


Senior officers said they were considering the possible use of plastic bullets...


Considering??

Possible use??

Plastic bullets??

Sounds like it is past time to break out the cases of Radway Green copper & lead..

..and put them to good use!! :steamed:



Looks like some citizens are finally fed up with the coddling...

.. & are willing to engage the "Flash Rioters" head on!.

The results could be "interesting"! :whistling:

The show of strength by police appeared to have quelled unrest in London late Tuesday, but in a move that could raise tensions, a far-right group said about 1,000 of its members around the country were taking to the streets to deter rioters.

"We're going to stop the riots -- police obviously can't handle it," Stephen Lennon, leader of the far-right English Defense League, told The Associated Press. He warned that he couldn't guarantee there wouldn't be violent clashes with rioting youths.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/08/09/uk-prime-minister-recalls-parliament-to-deal-with-sickening-rioting-crisis/

racerford
08-09-2011, 20:45
I agree with most of what he says in there. However I don't agree with shooting the first one in the face. I think shooting them in the hip multiple times will have a more stunning affect on the others. It offers a bigger target vs. the head shot. Shots into the hip will likely cause the individual to drop in pain with lots of bleeding. Psychologically, I think when his buddies see him screaming on the ground they will have more preoccupation with him vs. if he just drops dead.

Just my opinion though.

I am thinking that shooting him lower center pelvic girdle with a shotgun would be very effective. Imagine the feeling of the other guys in the crowd as their buddy screams in pain like he wished he was dead " Oh my ******* god, he blew my ****** off" . A lot of those gang types are not afraid of dying. However they probably are not keen on living without their manhood.

Major arteries, center of the skeletal structure needed to walk, gender identity, and the one place we are all taught to protect. What's not to like as a target.

If he is dead, they step over him. If he is writhing on the ground screaming, he could distract them and trip them up.

Bilbo Bagins
08-09-2011, 21:37
No science behind the idea of shooting into the hip. I just think if you see a head shot, your brain immediately moves absorbs 'he's dead' and the goes immediately into the next actions. If you see and hear your buddy screaming, there is more for the brain to do before it moves on to consider the next actions in the attack.

Like I said, I might be completely wrong here.

I'm going to disagree with all you guys. Don't screw around shooting people in the pelvis. This is life and death. This is also America, the odds that at least one of the hoodlums are also packing is pretty high. Headshot if you can do it, COM if you are looking for something easy. Wounding someone will piss of the rest of the mob, and they may be on top of you before you get a second shot. If a mob of 4 (Reginald Denny was pulled out and beaten close to death by just 4 guys) or more attack you, your life is in danger, kill the closest threat, never shoot to wound.

lawman800
08-10-2011, 03:47
Shoot what you can hit and shoot until the threat stops. You don't shoot to kill, you shoot to stop the threat. However, killing is a pretty good way to stop somebody....:whistling:

Bilbo Bagins
08-10-2011, 09:39
Meanwhile we had another rash of flash mob/racist gang attacks in Philly.

http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2011/08/09/third-flash-mob-attack-reported/

jdavionic
08-10-2011, 10:42
Meanwhile we had another rash of flash mob/racist gang attacks in Philly.

http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2011/08/09/third-flash-mob-attack-reported/

There's a Philadelphia in the UK??? Surely, we are not experiencing riots in the US. After all, the media has been focused on that Tea Party downgrade.

Bilbo Bagins
08-10-2011, 12:04
There's a Philadelphia in the UK??? Surely, we are not experiencing riots in the US. After all, the media has been focused on that Tea Party downgrade.

:rofl:

Not riots yet, but it funny that the media is leaving out the race of the victim and attackers. Ohh no a gang of emo kids walking down the street, they could flash mob me....RUN!!!!

Philly has had racial riots in the past. Eventually someone is going to get beaten to death, or some victim is going to shot a bunch of teens defending himself.

UneasyRider
08-10-2011, 18:47
Amazon is selling out of baseball bats to the UK but no run on gloves or balls?

Carry16
08-10-2011, 20:00
What strikes me as really odd is several reports on the violence in GB refer to the culprits as African-Americans.....really, most probably have never even visited America.

jdavionic
08-10-2011, 20:07
What strikes me as really odd is several reports on the violence in GB refer to the culprits as African-Americans.....really, most probably have never even visited America.

Link please. I have not seen any reports referring the black rioters in the UK as "African Americans".

racerford
08-10-2011, 20:14
What strikes me as really odd is several reports on the violence in GB refer to the culprits as African-Americans.....really, most probably have never even visited America.

I have not been reading the reports, but that is strange. Wouldn't they be African-Britons? Actually they are not quite so narrow minded about people from Africa. The know they are not all dark skinned and of the same descent. Some are "middle eastern", some quite "white". They realize "African" means they are from a certain continent, not a certain racial background.

Carry16
08-10-2011, 20:15
Sorry, I have no link to offer. One place I heard it was on the Neil Borg (sp) radio show. I'm pretty sure I also heard it in an early local tv news show.

jdavionic
08-10-2011, 20:19
Sorry, I have no link to offer. One place I heard it was on the Neil Borg (sp) radio show. I'm pretty sure I also heard it in an early local tv news show.

Perhaps you mean Neal Boortz. Here is his program notes from today pertaining to the riots.
http://www.boortz.com/weblogs/nealz-nuze/2011/aug/10/riots-london/

I doubt Neal would be that ignorant. However some of his callers...well, that's a different :supergrin:

Carry16
08-10-2011, 20:55
This isn't much, but I copied this from link below. Perhaps what I heard was Boortz referring to the Fox slip. Sorry I can't come up with any better reference. I listen to a lot of news each day, but I'm not good these days at recalling exactly where I heard each statement.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?p=13220024
--------------
Well according to Amanda Davis on Fox5 Atlanta about 20 minutes ago. "the riots in LONDON ENGLAND were because police shot an African AMERICAN man."


Already sent that to Boortz.
-------------

lawman800
08-10-2011, 21:07
Maybe he was one of our fine citizens who went there on vacation and got shot.

Carry16
08-10-2011, 22:14
Could be, Lawman....

Bolster
08-10-2011, 22:33
They must have meant local British blacks, not Afro-Americans. The Afro connection was mentioned in the Wall Street Journal's lead article, but it was buried deep in the article on page 11. See Wed Aug 10 edition:

"They're not protesting, they're just stealing," said Sedley Browne, who move to London from Jamaica when he was 11. "We shouldn't be making excuses." Witnesses said the rioters were predominantly young, black men, who coordinated their actions through mobile devices."

If the cops...uh, I mean, the Bobbies...could get just one hoodlum cellphone, you'd think they could set up a "flash-sting" operation.

ArmoryDoc
08-11-2011, 06:24
Hey, did you guys see the vids of the Brits on the rooftops defending their properties with AR's and Mini's ?!











Neither did I. It'll be a different show if it happens here.

lawman800
08-11-2011, 07:30
Hey, did you guys see the vids of the Brits on the rooftops defending their properties with AR's and Mini's ?!

Neither did I. It'll be a different show if it happens here.

It is happening here, but not as prolonged, and not being reported by the media much for fear of being called racists.

BR549
08-11-2011, 12:02
http://www.myfoxatlanta.com/dpp/news/local_news/Hundreds-Hope-for-Federal-Housing-Assistance-20100811-am-sd

Chaos As Crowd Waits for Section 8 Housing Assistance
Thousands line up in Atlanta
Updated: Wednesday, 11 Aug 2010, 11:22 PM EDT
Published : Wednesday, 11 Aug 2010, 4:41 AM EDT

By MYFOXATLANTA STAFF/myfoxatlanta

EAST POINT, Ga. - Chaos unfolded outside an East Point shopping center on Wednesday morning as thousands of people gathered for their chance at receiving federal housing assistance. Video from the scene of the Tri-City Shopping Plaza showed a large group of people congregating in the parking lot despite extreme temperatures, and tempers were high.

People started lining up on Sunday in hopes of receiving an application giving them the chance to apply for Section 8 housing assistance. Those applications would put them on a waiting list for assistance.

On Wednesday morning, crowds gathered around police cars as officers and East Point Housing Authority workers handed out the application forms, which people were then to fill out and turn in. Aerials from above the parking lot showed people mobbing the officers in their vehicles as they tried to get their papers. Once the forms were handed out, the crowd quickly dispersed.


•PHOTOS: Crowds Line Up for Section 8 Housing Assistance

Some who waited came from as far away as Tennessee and North Carolina. One woman went into labor in the line, and was taken to a local hospital. A young boy was also treated after suffering a seizure. Authorities say he was airlifted to a hospital, and has since stabilized.

Tempers among those in the crowd were perhaps the most dangerous part of the whole scene. Witnesses told FOX 5 the crowd was redirected several times on Wednesday morning, and they became quite frustrated.

“As time went on, the crowd got crazier,” one woman said.

East Point city officials held a press conference Wednesday afternoon. They said that they planned for 10,000 people, and 20,000 more showed up. Officials told the media they thought they had successfully gotten the applications in the hands of the people who wanted them, but the heat was out of control, leading to heat-related illnesses for some in the crowd.

Officials also said they spent the past couple of days trying to get people not to wait in line, and to reassure them that they would get an application. They said they regret that those who waited didn’t believe they would come through, but they didn’t’ anticipate the number of people who showed up.

Police intervened in an effort to restore order, and housing officials arrived at 8:30 a.m. – half an hour before the doors were set to open. FOX 5’s Tacoma Perry tried to get answers about the process used to hand out the applications.

“It’s the process we have in place,” one worker told Perry as she arrived at the shopping center. “I can’t tell you anything else.”

East Point Police Chief Leander Robinson said no one was arrested in the crowd, and all hands were on deck to maintain order in the parking lot. He said everyone acted civilly despite the situation.

RAW VIDEO: Aerials from the scene


Because of the high temperatures sweeping the southeast, heat exhaustion was common among those waiting in line. Emergency personnel handed out water, but the heat was too much for many.

East Point paramedics responded to help those who became ill because of the heat. According to Deputy Fire Chief William Ware, 62 people were treated for illnesses at the scene. Of those, he said 42 were treated and released, and another 20 were taken to hospitals. None of the injuries were serious or critical, Ware said.

City officials also pointed out that the large number of people who came to get applications is indicative of the vast need for housing assistance across the state and beyond.

The last time there was an open call for people to get on the wait list in East Point was in 2002. That year, 2,400 applications were given out. Officials said they were planning for about 10,000 due to the economic downturn this year, but 30,000 people showed up instead.

As of 1 p.m. Wednesday, 13,000 applications had been given out.

City Manager Crandal Jones said they are planning for the applications to be returned at 3056 Norman Berry Drive in East Point, and they would like to have people drive up and drop off their applications starting at 9 a.m. on Thursday.

ArmoryDoc
08-11-2011, 13:04
30 thousand people from several states ? WOW.

Dexters
08-11-2011, 13:13
30 thousand people from several states ? WOW.

All that the gov't needed to do was put the application on line and let the people print them out themselves at home or a library.

And why couldn't the gov't figure out how to put the application process on line.

lawman800
08-11-2011, 13:54
All that the gov't needed to do was put the application on line and let the people print them out themselves at home or a library.

And why couldn't the gov't figure out how to put the application process on line.

You think these people who need public housing have computers and printers our the patience to use it when they can just grab the paper fromthe gubment? Paper and ink cost money, yo!

Bolster
08-11-2011, 16:51
You think these people who need public housing have computers and printers our the patience to use it when they can just grab the paper fromthe gubment? Paper and ink cost money, yo!

So 2010. Today's upscale flash mobs carry iPhones (after stealing them, of course) and prefer the same paperless types of documents and gubmint handouts as are used at the airline checkins. They may be felons but they're still concerned about the envi-ro-min. Go Green, Yo?

jdavionic
08-11-2011, 18:28
http://www.myfoxatlanta.com/dpp/news/local_news/Hundreds-Hope-for-Federal-Housing-Assistance-20100811-am-sd

Yea, I remember when that happened. Fortunately I don't live in Atlanta. It serves as a good example of the gov't creating an addiction to them. Folks need their "fix"...gimme my gubmint handout now!

LongGun1
08-15-2011, 20:55
Well, it looks like some of the Brits are starting to "get it" concerning our 2nd Amendment, the right to self-defense & weapons ownership! :whistling:

http://www.tennessean.com/article/20110814/COLUMNIST0110/308140027/Richard-J-Grant-Brits-arm-themselves-face-PC-government-s-failure

Governments like to imagine they have a monopoly on the use of force. Not true. If the police are not there when you need them, it’s up to you. But Brits do not enjoy Second Amendment-type protections; and those who have used firearms in self-defense have sometimes found themselves in jail.

This explains why sales of baseball bats in the U.K. suddenly increased by over 6,000 percent last week. While government fails, the market provides.








And back at home....

"Let's meet up at 7-Eleven for some snacks"..

.. took on an entirely new meaning! :rofl:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/08/15/possible-flash-mob-hits-maryland-7-eleven-police-say/%27?test=latestnews

quake
08-15-2011, 21:08
...And back at home....

"Let's meet up at 7-Eleven for some snacks"..

.. took on an entirely new meaning! :rofl:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/08/15/possible-flash-mob-hits-maryland-7-eleven-police-say/%27?test=latestnews

What we need is better courts/prosecutors/jurors to deal with those thugs. There's enough evidence right there to deal with at least a good dozen of them, if the will was there as a society.

Pitt
08-15-2011, 22:57
Well, it looks like some of the Brits are starting to "get it" concerning our 2nd Amendment, the right to self-defense & weapons ownership! :whistling:

http://www.tennessean.com/article/20110814/COLUMNIST0110/308140027/Richard-J-Grant-Brits-arm-themselves-face-PC-government-s-failure










And back at home....

"Let's meet up at 7-Eleven for some snacks"..

.. took on an entirely new meaning! :rofl:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/08/15/possible-flash-mob-hits-maryland-7-eleven-police-say/%27?test=latestnews

Maybe they were hungry.

In reality, I have to agree with Mayor Nutter of Philly. These kids are out of control.

My brother has a saying- "Don't shame the race."

By that he means that when blacks go out in public, everything we do is put under a microscope. When whites act like asshats in public, we say "Look at that guy acting like a ******." We blame that one individual but we don't walk around assuming that all whites will act like that.

But when some black wannabee ganster rapper comes into a store or a resturant with his pants under his ass what you hear is- "Why do black people act like that?"

In my 40yrs on this Earth, I have had numerous whites ask me about some sort of stereotypical "black" behavior, like why the kids wear their pants sagging or why the big rims on the old police cars thing.

Hell, I don't know why these little idiots do that! My kid doesn't do that, because he knows I would whup his little tail if he did!!! :steamed:
Older blacks think these behaviors are dumb as hell, too!!!

Believe me, no one laments the dumbing down of black society more than the older generation of black people.:upeyes::steamed:

lawman800
08-16-2011, 03:10
Bill Cosby had a speech not long ago that said as much. He said black people have nobody else to blame for themselves not getting out of the ghetto and they need to pick themselves up and out. Get educated and do something for yourselves and stop blaming others.

He got universally lambasted by the typical race pimps who are freaked out because a black man gave a true message of independence to his brethren.

That's what I really don't get when my college friends got into the ghetto-fabulous trend and acted all thugged out. I thought the whole point in life was to get ahead so you can get out of the ghetto and not have to live like that. There's nothing cool about being a ghetto "mofo" keeping it real or nothing. I've always thought it was cool to be educated and rich enough to have a good life and afford toys.

jdavionic
08-16-2011, 04:43
http://www.myfoxatlanta.com/dpp/news/local_news/Hundreds-Hope-for-Federal-Housing-Assistance-20100811-am-sd

Wow, I just noticed...this actually happened again. When I first saw the post, I thought it was the article from last year. I guess it's now an annual event.

jdavionic
08-16-2011, 04:50
Hell, I don't know why these little idiots do that! My kid doesn't do that, because he knows I would whup his little tail if he did!!! :steamed:
Older blacks think these behaviors are dumb as hell, too!!!

Believe me, no one laments the dumbing down of black society more than the older generation of black people.:upeyes::steamed:

I play basketball every week with some friends from work. We play pick-up games at a local park. We had one time when young black man asked if he could play. My friend, who is a big guy and also happens to be black, said 'yea, but you need to pull your shorts...I'm not playing ball with someone who can't figure out how to keep their underwear from showing.' The young man looked at him, pulled his shorts up, tightened them up, and said "yes, sir". Point being, looks aren't everything and it's amazing what a little bit of 'parenting' can do for young people (regardless of race).

Dexters
08-16-2011, 07:02
What we need is better courts/prosecutors/jurors to deal with those thugs. There's enough evidence right there to deal with at least a good dozen of them, if the will was there as a society.

I would add we need different levels of prisons. Many people get parole because prisons are full. Prisons are expensive to build and maintain. We need different levels of prisons form low risk/violent to high risk/violent prisoners.

Dexters
08-16-2011, 07:09
I play basketball every week with some friends from work. We play pick-up games at a local park. We had one time when young black man asked if he could play. My friend, who is a big guy and also happens to be black, said 'yea, but you need to pull your shorts...I'm not playing ball with someone who can't figure out how to keep their underwear from showing.' The young man looked at him, pulled his shorts up, tightened them up, and said "yes, sir". Point being, looks aren't everything and it's amazing what a little bit of 'parenting' can do for young people (regardless of race).

Children want to be accepted and loved by their parents so they imitate their parents. If they don't find that love and acceptance and love at home they look for it outside of home.

Bilbo Bagins
08-16-2011, 08:32
Maybe they were hungry.

In reality, I have to agree with Mayor Nutter of Philly. These kids are out of control.

My brother has a saying- "Don't shame the race."

By that he means that when blacks go out in public, everything we do is put under a microscope. When whites act like asshats in public, we say "Look at that guy acting like a ******." We blame that one individual but we don't walk around assuming that all whites will act like that.

But when some black wannabee ganster rapper comes into a store or a resturant with his pants under his ass what you hear is- "Why do black people act like that?"

In my 40yrs on this Earth, I have had numerous whites ask me about some sort of stereotypical "black" behavior, like why the kids wear their pants sagging or why the big rims on the old police cars thing.

Hell, I don't know why these little idiots do that! My kid doesn't do that, because he knows I would whup his little tail if he did!!! :steamed:
Older blacks think these behaviors are dumb as hell, too!!!

Believe me, no one laments the dumbing down of black society more than the older generation of black people.:upeyes::steamed:

Then more black parents need to step up and take control of it. I'm also in my 40's and you can literally see the bell curve in black society. Before the 1990's urban black kids seem to be intergrating, trying to get an education, trying to move up, work hard, and fit in with American society. Sure there is criminal and lazy elements in every group, but African Americans were a strong and talented group that seem to finally shake off the racism and sterotypes, and joining successful Americans from all walks of life. Then something happened in the 1990's to change all that. I don't know if it was the LA riots, rap/hip hop, or what, but it was like watching the fall of Roman Empire. A portion of the African American just seemed to give up, did not want to be a part of the "Melting pot". They acted different and wanted to be treated different. They want to live the thug lifestyle, Dress silly, and reject those who want to move up in the world through regular means like getting an education, and being a good person.

I just don't get it, honestly at times its seems like it was done on purpose. Media Propanganda and Social programs that was unleased to keep a group of people dumb, ignorant, criminal, and in need of government assistance.Maybe to keep us fighting each other, and to keep us enslaved, I don't know. Look at how the Thug lifestyle has filtered into other ethnic groups in America, and has even crossed the ocean into the UK.

I don't care what color you are, or where you live. We are all at war, against an enemy that is trying to change the hearts and minds of our kids.

MannyA
08-16-2011, 08:45
I think he's referring to the surge in crime against tourists that occurred after FL residents got CCW rights.
Crooks started targeting tourists because they knew they would not be armed. Anyone in a rental car was a target for the same reasons.

Maybe the idiots putting up signs with labels such as "Historic Ovetown" led the tourists to the sight of historic crime and rioting.

arabianights
08-16-2011, 17:48
this happened last Saturday IN Maryland'Flash mob' robs Maryland 7-Eleven in less than a minute, police say


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHyug2PvpB8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syRtqc31yrE

G29Reload
08-16-2011, 18:38
yep, the havent gone away. I am carrying and will shoot to live.

quake
08-16-2011, 19:35
...at times its seems like it was done on purpose...

As someone once said, "It is what it appears to be." It was done, and is being done, on purpose. There's much less immediate personal gain in making society stronger and more cohesive, than there is in making it dumber and more angry.

Calm, intelligent people don't enrich the Al Sharptons or David Dukes of the world; emotional, ignorant people do.

LongGun1
08-18-2011, 07:59
yep, the havent gone away. I am carrying and will shoot to live.

+1 :thumbsup:


Personally, unlike many, I find it best not to attempt to rationalize senseless violence.. :whistling:

..especially when it is in your face! :shocked:

Seńor Glock can make the best of a bad situation! :)


But if you do & verbalize your thoughts while unarmed..

..I'm sure your attackers will get a good laugh! :rofl:

Same thing while armed...I am sure you will have their attention!

LongGun1
08-18-2011, 08:00
WOW!!

Philadelphia....in broad daylight....in front of CITY HALL.... :whistling:

http://www.myfoxphilly.com/dpp/news/local_news/new-video-shows-philly-teen-attack-081711

Young white female worker gets ambushed from behind with a violent attack by 'flash mob' teens.....video!! :shocked:

Dexters
08-18-2011, 09:01
WOW!!

Philadelphia....in broad daylight....in front of CITY HALL.... :whistling:

http://www.myfoxphilly.com/dpp/news/local_news/new-video-shows-philly-teen-attack-081711

Young white female worker gets ambushed from behind with a violent attack by 'flash mob' teens.....video!! :shocked:

Link didn't work for me.

RWBlue
08-18-2011, 09:15
WOW!!

Philadelphia....in broad daylight....in front of CITY HALL.... :whistling:

http://www.myfoxphilly.com/dpp/news/local_news/new-video-shows-philly-teen-attack-081711

Young white female worker gets ambushed from behind with a violent attack by 'flash mob' teens.....video!! :shocked:

It must have happened at night because I can no see the picture. :supergrin::wavey:

lawman800
08-18-2011, 09:41
Link worked for me. Video played from the fox website.

LongGun1
08-18-2011, 16:35
It must have happened at night because I can no see the picture. :supergrin::wavey:



OK...it worked when posted.... :whistling:

http://www.myfoxphilly.com/dpp/news/local_news/new-video-shows-philly-teen-attack-081711

..but I reposted!

Bilbo Bagins
08-18-2011, 17:20
WOW!!

Philadelphia....in broad daylight....in front of CITY HALL.... :whistling:

http://www.myfoxphilly.com/dpp/news/local_news/new-video-shows-philly-teen-attack-081711

Young white female worker gets ambushed from behind with a violent attack by 'flash mob' teens.....video!! :shocked:

Disgraceful. That happened on the Northwest corner of City Hall. On the NorthEast side is the Mayors limo and Security Detail, while on the Southeast corner is where prisoners are brought in for criminal cases, and where at least a dozen or more Sherriffs and Philly PD would hang out.

No Robbery involved? Damn it all this flash mob mess, is a planned, pre meditated, terrorist campaign against white people in Philadelphia and elsewhere. I cannot see how it going to end without a bunch of black teens getting shot dead by their would be victim.

jdavionic
08-18-2011, 17:57
As the frequency increases, the popularity and sense of invincability increases. The odds of an encounter with an armed citizen also increases. Imagine the results and subsequent press when a swarm of "youth" attack people in traffic and one of the "victims" begins unloading on them.

UneasyRider
08-18-2011, 18:08
Disgraceful. That happened on the Northwest corner of City Hall. On the NorthEast side is the Mayors limo and Security Detail, while on the Southeast corner is where prisoners are brought in for criminal cases, and where at least a dozen or more Sherriffs and Philly PD would hang out.

No Robbery involved? Damn it all this flash mob mess, is a planned, pre meditated, terrorist campaign against white people in Philadelphia and elsewhere. I cannot see how it going to end without a bunch of black teens getting shot dead by their would be victim.

This will end badly for everyone. If you live in one of the cities where this is going on how do you talk to your black friends without mentioning this? If you don't talk about it then your both being dishonest, if you do talk about it you are in a no win conversation.

The behavior on display this summer is going to put a large divide between black and white people. What's a shame is that there are adults preaching violence and mob behavior in the black community who know what is going to result from it, two divided peoples, they should be ashamed.

jdavionic
08-18-2011, 18:17
This will end badly for everyone. If you live in one of the cities where this is going on how do you talk to your black friends without mentioning this? If you don't talk about it then your both being dishonest, if you do talk about it you are in a no win conversation.

The behavior on display this summer is going to put a large divide between black and white people. What's a shame is that there are adults preaching violence and mob behavior in the black community who know what is going to result from it, two divided peoples, they should be ashamed.

I don't follow this one. I live in an area with many blacks, hispanics, etc. I have several friends who are black. What's the big deal? Heck, we discussed this issue at work. Any reasonable person can see that many of these mob attacks are racially motivated. Decent people of all races will recognize this fact.

I just don't see the reservation about discussing this one.

UneasyRider
08-18-2011, 18:32
I don't follow this one. I live in an area with many blacks, hispanics, etc. I have several friends who are black. What's the big deal? Heck, we discussed this issue at work. Any reasonable person can see that many of these mob attacks are racially motivated. Decent people of all races will recognize this fact.

I just don't see the reservation about discussing this one.

You may be right and I hope so.

Dexters
08-18-2011, 18:32
This will end badly for everyone.

I don't think it will end badly for everyone. No one in the flash mobs will be seriously prosecuted. But if a 'Bernie Goetz' does something - shoots an attacker - he will be prosecuted to the full extent of the law and it will become a cause celeb.

That is the power of today's riot/flash mob. The defenders - including police are fearful of the repercussions and the rioter/flash mobber is not. The images would be reminiscent of the civil rights images. What can the rioter/flash mobber be charged with - theft, assault and they have to get caught.

The police are fearful of just getting caught in a video making them look bad or being accused of police brutality. The citizen is fearful of getting beat but maybe even more fearful of hurting a rioter/flash mobber and not being able to or having to prove they were defending their life.

Let a white man shoot a black teenager rioter/flash mobber in self defense and we will have riots when it happens and if the white man is not charged or found not guilty. But if a black man or woman shoots a black teenager rioter/flash mobber in self defense the man would be hailed as a hero.

That is where I think we are in today's society.

That is also why I recommend having pepper spray with you; so you have options.

LongGun1
08-18-2011, 18:35
I cannot see how it going to end without a bunch of black teens getting shot dead by their would be victim.


A mob...in & of itself...is a disparity of force...capable of causing death or serious injury...even if unarmed! :shocked:

In the attacks I have noted....kicks to the body & head are not uncommon..

..and improvised weapons are used..

..all with the seeming intent of causing serious injury or death!


Personally....I would not have a problem sleeping at night if I used deadly force in defense of such an senseless, unprovoked attack..

..no matter how young the thugs are..

..no matter what sex they are..

..no matter what race they are..

..or how high the bodies are stacked! :whistling:


One day...maybe soon...a group of attackers is going to make a crucial mistake in the "victim selection process"..

..& the ICU or morgue will likely be the end result of their "fun"! :upeyes:

Dexters
08-18-2011, 19:00
A mob...in & of itself...is a disparity of force...capable of causing death or serious injury...even if unarmed! :shocked:



What you say is true. But during the trial the rioters/flash mobbers you killed would be presented as choir boys, doing great in high school who love their mother with plans to go to college to become doctors and go back to the community to help the poor. There wasn't a mob, there were only 3 of them, they were unarmed, and they weren't threatening you in any way. And LG1, when did you first join the KKK, have you stopped beating your wife etc ...

It happened to Bernie Geotz. One of his mistakes was to say something like "It looks as if you could use another one." to a guy he shot but was still alive and no threat to him.

Warp
08-18-2011, 19:19
It happened to Bernie Geotz. One of his mistakes was to say something like "It looks as if you could use another one." to a guy he shot but was still alive and no threat to him.

And the only criminal conviction he got...carrying the gun

Dexters
08-18-2011, 19:39
And the only criminal conviction he got...carrying the gun

Plus he lost in a civil trial went bankrupt but the civil trial award was not cleared in bankruptcy. I don't think he paid any of it.

Warp
08-18-2011, 19:41
Plus he lost in a civil trial went bankrupt but the civil trial award was not cleared in bankruptcy. I don't think he paid any of it.

That's what wiki says.

He was definitely out of line with the final shot. I'd say it was a tactical mistake too. He fired the last round from his revolver on a guy that wasn't a threat when one of the others could have been a further threat. The way I see it

racerford
08-18-2011, 20:13
OK...it worked when posted.... :whistling:

http://www.myfoxphilly.com/dpp/news/local_news/new-video-shows-philly-teen-attack-081711

..but I reposted!

The interesting thing I noticed when you watch all the way through to the un-edited version it appears a guy comes running up, and they run off at that point and he keeps running after them. I did not hear a mention of that. That could be the reason the beating stoppped.

Or did I imagine something?

LongGun1
08-19-2011, 03:52
It happened to Bernie Geotz. One of his mistakes was to say something like "It looks as if you could use another one." to a guy he shot but was still alive and no threat to him.


Actually, other than living/working in anti-gun NYC & the above... :whistling:

..his mistake was poor placement & not enough capacity! :rofl: :supergrin:

Dexters
08-19-2011, 05:22
Actually, other than living/working in anti-gun NYC & the above... :whistling:



So true. But don't tell the people living there that. They might leave and move south!

1stMAW
08-19-2011, 05:38
Flash mobs won't happen in S.C., the scum would be gunned down in short order. It will only take one good slaughter and they will go away.....

Babynine
08-19-2011, 07:04
All this concern about the victim being proseuted for a defensive shoot got me wondering if that is really peoples biggest concern? Potential Jailtime? Really?

I would much rather risk me sitting in jail or prison, than risk me or my loved ones laying in the mogue.

If I am suckerpunched to the ground by a group of whatever age, and ANY color of skin, I'm going for my G26 and the group is only getting seconds to decide if they want some Gold Dot 124's.

Jailtime? Really?

Bilbo Bagins
08-19-2011, 07:19
Flash mobs won't happen in S.C., the scum would be gunned down in short order. It will only take one good slaughter and they will go away.....

:rofl:

So what about Columbia SC? :whistling:

http://www.wistv.com/Global/story.asp?S=14965429

lawman800
08-19-2011, 08:18
What you say is true. But during the trial the rioters/flash mobbers you killed would be presented as choir boys, doing great in high school who love their mother with plans to go to college to become doctors and go back to the community to help the poor. There wasn't a mob, there were only 3 of them, they were unarmed, and they weren't threatening you in any way. And LG1, when did you first join the KKK, have you stopped beating your wife etc ...

It happened to Bernie Geotz. One of his mistakes was to say something like "It looks as if you could use another one." to a guy he shot but was still alive and no threat to him.

This is not new to any cop who has to go through use of force. The suspect, no matter how bad his record, will be presented as as choirboy who is turning his life around, singing to orphaned kittens in church, volunteering at the homeless shelter for 1 day in a row, trying to support his 5 kids while living on welfare, working his hardest to get out of the life that we put him in because society is racist... Yada yada yada

You saw it with the scum that shot the 4 cops in oakland. You also saw it with the BART shooting, even though the circs were different, the dead person was still no saint.

Warp
08-19-2011, 10:43
All this concern about the victim being proseuted for a defensive shoot got me wondering if that is really peoples biggest concern? Potential Jailtime? Really?

I would much rather risk me sitting in jail or prison, than risk me or my loved ones laying in the mogue.

If I am suckerpunched to the ground by a group of whatever age, and ANY color of skin, I'm going for my G26 and the group is only getting seconds to decide if they want some Gold Dot 124's.

Jailtime? Really?

By the time you are on the ground it may be too late

jdavionic
08-19-2011, 15:27
By the time you are on the ground it may be too late

I agree. When it comes to a flash mob, I will drop the first SOB that comes toward me in violation of my warning. And if others decide to make the same decision that he/she made, they will endure the same fate. Point being, I will not let the mob get so close that I am in danger of being blindsided from someone.

Bolster
08-19-2011, 16:16
I agree. When it comes to a flash mob, I will drop the first SOB that comes toward me in violation of my warning...

And if what you thought was a flash mob, turns out to be a bunch of kids running past you on the way to a game? What if they think your warning is not for them? I've had crazy guys yell at me on the street and it's always ambiguous what they said, who they're yelling at, or why. It's never as clear-cut as we fantasize.

I went back and reviewed the Goetz affair. From his perspective, it was a robbery (as he'd been robbed before). And it probably was about to become one. But it was ambiguous enough (they just asked for $10, that's all), the thuglets' attorneys successfully called it innocent panhandling. Goetz would have had an easier time in court if he'd let the scenario play out a few more seconds, to get the thuglets to commit themselves to a serious threat, to draw a weapon (screwdriver), whatever. Dangerous to let it play out? Yes. Easier to defend yourself in the INEVITABLE court case following? Also yes. (Goetz tried to fade anonymously into the night...didn't happen...they were looking for him...in our f'd up society, the defender is the perp.)

I hope every time we get another "I'll shoot 'em!" posting, that people are realizing that's the easy and satisfying part. Then you have to pay for it, for years to come, and empty your bank account, defending yourself; live with ongoing harassment; expect vengeance from a relative; your every move examined and recorded by the media and your privacy gone forever. Based on self interest alone (no moralistic palaver), shooting should never be an easy decision.

Personally, I would likely sustain some punches (if non-weapon assault) before defending myself. I realize that's controversial and not appropriate in every situation, and potentially deadly for me if the initial attack is forceful enough, but that's how I'd likely play it (depending) because I think the court battle following could be worse than the assault, in many cases.

jdavionic
08-19-2011, 17:02
And if what you thought was a flash mob, turns out to be a bunch of kids running past you on the way to a game?

Your assertion fell apart with the very opening. The thread pertains to the OP. The people running through a parking lot or the streets, attacking innocent people, smashing cars,....Situational awareness is critical in self defense. If you are so unaware of your situation that you cannot distinguish the scenarios discussed from a "bunch of kids running" to a game, then I see no point in discussing it further with you.