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coleslaw
06-19-2011, 11:32
I live in Pgh, PA and I have my Conceal Carry permit. On the back it just says not to carry in Airports and Federal Gov't facilities. So am I legally ok to carry everywhere else?

For example my gf and I had was out and she got sick so I took her to the ER and I was so nervous because I was carrying. If I knew we was going to end up at the hospital I probably would've left my gun at home. The only two places I don't carry other than Airports and Federal Gov't facilities are bars, and amusement parks.

I know I am legal, but I just get nervous with so many "anti-gun" establishments out there I fear I'm going to walk in the wrong place and accidently print and get in trouble. Should I call places that I'm nervous carrying and ask if they have any rules against firearms in their establishments? I know that sounds stupid but like I said... anti-gun people and establishments make me nervous.

RussP
06-19-2011, 11:41
Here's a good resource... http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/pennsylvania.pdf

DaverZ
06-19-2011, 16:10
Here in Florida we can't carry in those places as well as hospitals,sporting events,police stations and bars,we can carry in eating establishments with a bar or that serves alcoholic beverages but can not sit in the bar area.

VADuckHunter
06-19-2011, 16:23
PA has a ton of really weird laws (i lived there for 2 years). I did not have a handgun there because i was living in a college dorm, but hunted with a couple frequent carriers. They said they could not carry in bars, and private establishments have the right to not allow carrying in their place of business. I know for a fact Hershey Park says no to carrying. Thats all i know though.

kensteele
06-19-2011, 17:31
I live in Pgh, PA and I have my Conceal Carry permit. On the back it just says not to carry in Airports and Federal Gov't facilities. So am I legally ok to carry everywhere else?

For example my gf and I had was out and she got sick so I took her to the ER and I was so nervous because I was carrying. If I knew we was going to end up at the hospital I probably would've left my gun at home. The only two places I don't carry other than Airports and Federal Gov't facilities are bars, and amusement parks.

I know I am legal, but I just get nervous with so many "anti-gun" establishments out there I fear I'm going to walk in the wrong place and accidently print and get in trouble. Should I call places that I'm nervous carrying and ask if they have any rules against firearms in their establishments? I know that sounds stupid but like I said... anti-gun people and establishments make me nervous.

You shouldn't be that nervous carrying a firearm. It is the criminal that you should be nervous about, not the honest law-abiding people that might happen to be anti-gun. I understand lots of people forgo carrying their firearm because of too many rules and too many "gotchas" that will instantly turn you into a criminal when you had no criminal intent at all. Like you said, it's best that you become familiar with the rules and that will go a long way to allay your fears in short order so you can get back to the business of personal protection and self-defense.

coleslaw
06-19-2011, 18:20
You shouldn't be that nervous carrying a firearm. It is the criminal that you should be nervous about, not the honest law-abiding people that might happen to be anti-gun. I understand lots of people forgo carrying their firearm because of too many rules and too many "gotchas" that will instantly turn you into a criminal when you had no criminal intent at all. Like you said, it's best that you become familiar with the rules and that will go a long way to allay your fears in short order so you can get back to the business of personal protection and self-defense.

Supporting words. Thank you sir.

coleslaw
06-19-2011, 18:21
Here's a good resource... http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/pennsylvania.pdf

Thank you. I printed out the PDF and will dissect it tonight.

degoodman
06-19-2011, 19:36
Sounds like new-CCW-itis. We all go through it. Comes with the 18 - 21 years of programming that people with guns in public must be bad. It goes away.

Now the other side of the coin is that while the permitting process in PA is about as easy as its possible to be, it doesn't come with any training or education, or even a pamphlet to lay out the law for you. Carry in PA is pretty unrestricted fortunately, so there aren't nearly as many gotchas as there are in other states. The handgunlaw.us data is a nice start. Even though its not required, a course from a reputable instructor can be alot more reassuring. Whichever way you go, make sure you're up to speed on the law before you carry, not after.

For example, in PA it is not illegal to carry into a bar or the bar area of a resturant. It is also not illegal, though still not recommended, to consume alcohol while carrying. There are plenty more examples for you to find out on your own.

Pretty soon carrying a firearm will start to feel normal, and you can get on with things. as long as you don't become complaicant you'll be fine.

HKLovingIT
06-19-2011, 21:01
A brief rundown. Check for yourself to be sure. Me and the other Internet peeps can be wrong.

NO - No you can't carry there.
Yes - Yes you can carry there.



Wal-Mart - MANDATORY. unless posted.
K-12 Schools - NO. And that includes knives, pepper spray, whatever.
1000 ft of K12 School: NO - see the law, you can drive by it on your way somewhere obviously.
Local, County, State Court House - NO Inside, they must provide a gun locker for you to check your weapon at the entrance. Call ahead.
Federal Building or Federal Court House - NO
Post Office: NO
Bank: YES, unless posted by owner.
State Park - YES, must be concealed - no open carry. Buildings, unclear. I stay out. But you can call the Game Commission to find out what's up. I just pee free and natural in the woods like the Lord intended. Or I use the porta-john.
PA Capitol Complex and Buildings under Jurisdiction of Cap Police - NO. This is rather loosely defined in my opinion, but NO.
Other PA State Buildings - Depends.
Federal Park in PA - YES must be concealed, NO to going in Federal Building on park property. Technically, this would include a restroom building. Bring an empty bottle.
Municipal Parks/Property: YES - but - many municipalities have park signs that say "No Firearms" However, they are in violation of Title 18. No municipality can make any law or ordinance that supersedes Commonwealth law concerning ownership, transport and carrying of firearms. Some municipalities have been forced to take the signs down, however you don't want to be a test case.
Municipal Buildings: YES, technically. Many municipal buildings like a township building might house the police department and cells. So technically they might fall under the detention facility prohibition. Dunno.
Building/Property Posted by Owner as No Firearms: NO. Defiant Trespass beef.
Airport: YES, outside, inside entrance. NO, in secured areas.
Rest Stops: YES.
Casino: NO
Jails/Detention Centers/Mental Hospital: NO
Philly/Pittsburgh [a.k.a. city of the 1st class]: YES. Concealed or Open. :rofl:
Place that serves alcohol: YES, unless owner of the establishment asks you to leave, or it's posted by owner. Alcohol+Bar Crowd+Firearm usually = bad idea. I just stay out of bars personally.
Church: YES.
College Campus: YES, they may have their own regs concerning students and student's subject to discipline or may post "No Firearms", or ask you to leave.
Hospital: YES, unless posted or they ask you to leave, or it falls under another law category [mental hospital].
Hershey Entertainment Property: NO. It's posted private property to my knowledge.
PA Renaissance Faire: NO. Not posted to my knowledge but the guards check you briefly at the gate and they verbally let the policy be known. However you can carry a 6 foot sword as long as it has a cord tied around the hilt. :rofl:

If you have to be in and out of these places, you might consider a cable secured or bolted strongbox in the car. You can remove the magazine and lock the weapon up if you have to run in one of these places on an errand. But be aware, some places like K-12 schools you can't even have it on the grounds thereof, period. Also, the Capitol Police are probably not going to be cool with you having a loaded mag in your pocket no matter that you have a LTCF and the gun is locked in your car. So, use ye ole common sense.



Having a PA LTCF also removes the restriction from you concerning carrying a loaded handgun in a vehicle. However you are NOT allowed to carry a loaded shotgun or rifle in your vehicle, period, ever, unless you a cop. Vehicle in PA is defined as car, truck, motorcycle, bicycle, unicycle, horse, buggy, whatever.



You may transport an unloaded rifle. However, you may not transport an unloaded rifle through Philly without a LTCF.



If you have a LTCF you are permitted to carry a handgun or long gun on your person during a declared state emergency. But you still can't carry a loaded long gun in a vehicle.



Do you have to notify law enforcement if contacted or pulled over? NO. But you should if you are carrying IMO. Just keep hands on wheel, hand over the LTCF card with your driver's license and be polite. When the officer walks up to your window, do not blurt out "I have a gun!" Don't be silly. Just hand over the driver's license and LTCF card and go from there. If asked where it is, just verbally say where it is, don't be reaching, pointing, scratching or what not. Just say where it is and follow the officer instructions. Don't get into a 2nd Amendment debate on the side of the road. Just do your business and get on your way. If you feel your 2A rights were violated, hire a lawyer and file a lawsuit against the city later.

Your new LTCF nervousness will go away. When I first started carrying I had way too big firearm with way too big and blocky holster and really poor cover garment thinking. No one said squat, ever. I don't think anyone even noticed. What people will notice is that you are acting nervous and weird. Strap on a big tape measure and cell phone then wear a cover shirt. Go about your day, note how many people ask you what is on your belt. The answer is: 0 Before you owned and carried, how many times did you think to yourself "Hey I think that bulge in that guys belt is a gun.."? Probably: 0.

If a place is posted NO FIREARMS. Then it is their property and their property rights on their property trumps your 2A right in that case. However, if a place isn't posted, and for some strange reason the owner comes up and says, "Hey Dude! You're carrying a gun, I saw you 'printing'. You need to leave my property!" Your answer is "Okay. I'm leaving." Then you leave, politely. There you go. That's how you handle that. If you refuse to leave after he asks, it's misdemeanor trespassing. It's his property or place of business, so he can ask you to leave for whatever reason he wants, carrying or not.

And here is another thing, if you look like a proper gentleman, or clean cut guy, no one is probably going to ask you to leave or just throw your butt out of their restaurant, even if you are printing. If you have face tattoos and rings, etc. [No offense to those that do] You might get discriminated against regardless.

What is your carry piece and current holster if you don't mind sharing?

Good luck, be safe.

Here are some good books and links:

Read here: http://forum.pafoa.org/concealed-open-carry-121/7582-read-first-where-you-can-cannot-carry-weapons-state-pennsylvania.html

This PDF has a lot of good info on it: http://paopencarry.org/pdfs/PennsylvaniaGunRights.pdf

http://www.amazon.com/Gun-Digest-Book-Concealed-Carry/dp/0896896110/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1308541685&sr=1-2

http://www.amazon.com/Gravest-Extreme-Firearm-Personal-Protection/dp/0936279001/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1308541685&sr=1-3

http://www.amazon.com/Armed-Response-Comprehensive-Firearms-Self-Defense/dp/0936783451/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top/188-7145198-7080154

coleslaw
06-19-2011, 22:59
A brief rundown. Check for yourself to be sure. Me and the other Internet peeps can be wrong.

NO - No you can't carry there.
Yes - Yes you can carry there.



Wal-Mart - MANDATORY. unless posted.
K-12 Schools - NO. And that includes knives, pepper spray, whatever.
1000 ft of K12 School: NO - see the law, you can drive by it on your way somewhere obviously.
Local, County, State Court House - NO Inside, they must provide a gun locker for you to check your weapon at the entrance. Call ahead.
Federal Building or Federal Court House - NO
Post Office: NO
Bank: YES, unless posted by owner.
State Park - YES, must be concealed - no open carry. Buildings, unclear. I stay out. But you can call the Game Commission to find out what's up. I just pee free and natural in the woods like the Lord intended. Or I use the porta-john.
PA Capitol Complex and Buildings under Jurisdiction of Cap Police - NO. This is rather loosely defined in my opinion, but NO.
Other PA State Buildings - Depends.
Federal Park in PA - YES must be concealed, NO to going in Federal Building on park property. Technically, this would include a restroom building. Bring an empty bottle.
Municipal Parks/Property: YES - but - many municipalities have park signs that say "No Firearms" However, they are in violation of Title 18. No municipality can make any law or ordinance that supersedes Commonwealth law concerning ownership, transport and carrying of firearms. Some municipalities have been forced to take the signs down, however you don't want to be a test case.
Municipal Buildings: YES, technically. Many municipal buildings like a township building might house the police department and cells. So technically they might fall under the detention facility prohibition. Dunno.
Building/Property Posted by Owner as No Firearms: NO. Defiant Trespass beef.
Airport: YES, outside, inside entrance. NO, in secured areas.
Rest Stops: YES.
Casino: NO
Jails/Detention Centers/Mental Hospital: NO
Philly/Pittsburgh [a.k.a. city of the 1st class]: YES. Concealed or Open. :rofl:
Place that serves alcohol: YES, unless owner of the establishment asks you to leave, or it's posted by owner. Alcohol+Bar Crowd+Firearm usually = bad idea. I just stay out of bars personally.
Church: YES.
College Campus: YES, they may have their own regs concerning students and student's subject to discipline or may post "No Firearms", or ask you to leave.
Hospital: YES, unless posted or they ask you to leave, or it falls under another law category [mental hospital].
Hershey Entertainment Property: NO. It's posted private property to my knowledge.
PA Renaissance Faire: NO. Not posted to my knowledge but the guards check you briefly at the gate and they verbally let the policy be known. However you can carry a 6 foot sword as long as it has a cord tied around the hilt. :rofl:

If you have to be in and out of these places, you might consider a cable secured or bolted strongbox in the car. You can remove the magazine and lock the weapon up if you have to run in one of these places on an errand. But be aware, some places like K-12 schools you can't even have it on the grounds thereof, period. Also, the Capitol Police are probably not going to be cool with you having a loaded mag in your pocket no matter that you have a LTCF and the gun is locked in your car. So, use ye ole common sense.



Having a PA LTCF also removes the restriction from you concerning carrying a loaded handgun in a vehicle. However you are NOT allowed to carry a loaded shotgun or rifle in your vehicle, period, ever, unless you a cop. Vehicle in PA is defined as car, truck, motorcycle, bicycle, unicycle, horse, buggy, whatever.



You may transport an unloaded rifle. However, you may not transport an unloaded rifle through Philly without a LTCF.



If you have a LTCF you are permitted to carry a handgun or long gun on your person during a declared state emergency. But you still can't carry a loaded long gun in a vehicle.



Do you have to notify law enforcement if contacted or pulled over? NO. But you should if you are carrying IMO. Just keep hands on wheel, hand over the LTCF card with your driver's license and be polite. When the officer walks up to your window, do not blurt out "I have a gun!" Don't be silly. Just hand over the driver's license and LTCF card and go from there. If asked where it is, just verbally say where it is, don't be reaching, pointing, scratching or what not. Just say where it is and follow the officer instructions. Don't get into a 2nd Amendment debate on the side of the road. Just do your business and get on your way. If you feel your 2A rights were violated, hire a lawyer and file a lawsuit against the city later.

Your new LTCF nervousness will go away. When I first started carrying I had way too big firearm with way too big and blocky holster and really poor cover garment thinking. No one said squat, ever. I don't think anyone even noticed. What people will notice is that you are acting nervous and weird. Strap on a big tape measure and cell phone then wear a cover shirt. Go about your day, note how many people ask you what is on your belt. The answer is: 0 Before you owned and carried, how many times did you think to yourself "Hey I think that bulge in that guys belt is a gun.."? Probably: 0.

If a place is posted NO FIREARMS. Then it is their property and their property rights on their property trumps your 2A right in that case. However, if a place isn't posted, and for some strange reason the owner comes up and says, "Hey Dude! You're carrying a gun, I saw you 'printing'. You need to leave my property!" Your answer is "Okay. I'm leaving." Then you leave, politely. There you go. That's how you handle that. If you refuse to leave after he asks, it's misdemeanor trespassing. It's his property or place of business, so he can ask you to leave for whatever reason he wants, carrying or not.

And here is another thing, if you look like a proper gentleman, or clean cut guy, no one is probably going to ask you to leave or just throw your butt out of their restaurant, even if you are printing. If you have face tattoos and rings, etc. [No offense to those that do] You might get discriminated against regardless.

What is your carry piece and current holster if you don't mind sharing?

Good luck, be safe.

Here are some good books and links:

Read here: http://forum.pafoa.org/concealed-open-carry-121/7582-read-first-where-you-can-cannot-carry-weapons-state-pennsylvania.html

This PDF has a lot of good info on it: http://paopencarry.org/pdfs/PennsylvaniaGunRights.pdf

http://www.amazon.com/Gun-Digest-Book-Concealed-Carry/dp/0896896110/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1308541685&sr=1-2

http://www.amazon.com/Gravest-Extreme-Firearm-Personal-Protection/dp/0936279001/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1308541685&sr=1-3

http://www.amazon.com/Armed-Response-Comprehensive-Firearms-Self-Defense/dp/0936783451/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top/188-7145198-7080154

In all the forums I've joined this is the best most informative answer I ever received. Thank you VERY VERY much. My EDC is a HK45c in a CBST. I used to print alot when I wore my P2000 which is odd because it's slightly smaller... but I was still getting the right holster position down.

Also I just want to share a quick story. When I was new at the carrying lifestyle I had a G17 and that was my "truck gun". Always kept in the glove box full mag, empty chamber. I came upon a DUI checkpoint on a major highway and when the officer asked for my registration card I calmly told him "Yes sir no problem, but before I open the glove box to reach for my registration I just want you to know that there is a firearm in there and I do have my License to carry"... Word for word. The officer replied "Okay keep your glovebox closed and just show me your license/permit to carry" At that time two more officers that over heard me say that came over to my window and said "Thank you very much for telling us that, you handled that the right way"

I don't think the cops would have seen the G17, it being nighttime and all, but I can't imagine a LEO and seeing a citizen reach for a firearm. It has to be scary.

HKLovingIT
06-19-2011, 23:06
If you don't have them yet, you can get flat mag base pads for your HK45C. [They also have them for the P2000]. Makes a bit of difference.

The HK45C and USP Compact .45 mags are the same thing, so these will work on there:

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=564410


This is the regular one that probably came on your mags:

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=199686

coleslaw
06-19-2011, 23:14
If you don't have them yet, you can get flat mag base pads for your HK45C. [They also have them for the P2000]. Makes a bit of difference.

The HK45C and USP Compact .45 mags are the same thing, so these will work on there:

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=564410

Yes Sir. I def have a flat base plate mag for both. The P2k just got sold so I'm looking into another CC pistol. I was thinking P30 (I really really want it but the "conceal-ability" of the pistol is pushing me away from it)... Glock 19, not as spiffy as a HK but I'm pretty sure it can do what a HK can just not as sexy lol... and third I was thinking about getting into my first 1911. Looks like the 1911 is out of the race so now it's between G19 and HK P30... I might just get the G19 for a EDC now and in a cpl years when I have the money to spend I'll pick up another HK. Function is more important than fashion to me, especially when cash is tight.