Ruger LCP, go buy one now [Archive] - Glock Talk

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internal
06-20-2011, 08:17
Wow is all I have to say.

I have a G19 with Mtac and while I love that carry setup, it's big enough of a setup that I can't carry at work (semi-casual, shirt tucked in) nor can I go biking, hiking or running without really feeling the G19 there.

Friend of mine picked up an LCP for his girl and I was able to try it out on our last shooting trip and I couldn't believe how small, light and how well the gun felt in the hand and shot.

Now I have 7 rounds of .380 on me ALL times, vs. 16 rounds of 9mm at my house majority of the time. It was a great trade off IMO.

I wanted a G26 at first but then I started realizing I wouldn't be in any different of a situation vs. my G19, maybe save a few OZ but the G26 is still a heavy gun and as well all know it's far from a pocket gun.

The LCP is 9.5oz unloaded and 12.5oz fully loaded with 7 rounds of 380.

ricklee4570
06-20-2011, 08:57
I am looking at the Kahr CM9, almost as small as the LCP but a 9mm.

off road
06-20-2011, 09:07
Not at all fond of the .380 or pocket autos. I choose to go J-frame myself.

If I just had to have a Ruger...it would be the LC9.

internal
06-20-2011, 09:13
I am looking at the Kahr CM9, almost as small as the LCP but a 9mm.

IMO, it's not even close to the same size.

I checked out all super small 9mm's and all seem to be at least 15oz unloaded and usually at least 1.5lbs loaded.

IMO that is too big for a superlight pocket gun, might as well buy a g26 and carry it IWB if you have to use a holster for the super small 9mm's anyways.

Plus, when hiking, biking or walking/running I'm not kidding every single oz counts.

380 or 9mm what's the difference at 7 yards or less? I'm emptying the mag in either situation.

internal
06-20-2011, 09:20
Not at all fond of the .380 or pocket autos. I choose to go J-frame myself.

If I just had to have a Ruger...it would be the LC9.

Was never a fan of 380 or pocket autos either. Always carried my sp101 OWB or my G19 IWB. When I held and shot the LCP that changed everything.

IMO j frames are way too thick at the cylinder, plus even the lightest ones weigh just as much as the super small 9mms and they only hold 5 shots so the small revolvers don't bring alot to the table.

IMO small revolvers are better suited for people who don't want to learn a manual of arms and they just want a simple pistol that's always ready to go at the house. No slide racking, no dealing with mags, etc

The LC9 is nice but it's almost 18oz unloaded, fully loaded it's going to be almost a 1.5lb gun, again its a nice gun but it's far from a gun you can throw in your pocket.

If I have to use a holster I might as well just carry my G19 or get a g26.
I'm telling you guys, give the LCP a shot if you have the opportunity to hold and shoot one, you might be surprised like I was.

Dr.Midnight
06-20-2011, 09:21
I'm a big fan of the LCP too. It's so light, even when loaded, that I forget it's on me after the first minute of carry. It's definately not a range gun, but when practicing with it, I can nail a paper plate at 15 yards. They're not the tighest groups, but if I ever have to use this pistol, the distance will be much closer than 15 yards anyway. At the price they're at, why not own one?

leadispenser
06-20-2011, 09:21
I picked up a kel tec .380 and really like it. Very light, accurate (w/in 7 yards), and concealable - especially with a belt clip. It has pushed my kahr cw9 to 2nd place as a carry pistol. In Florida's heat, you have to consider your clothing and the type of pistol you carry.

internal
06-20-2011, 09:33
I'm a big fan of the LCP too. It's so light, even when loaded, that I forget it's on me after the first minute of carry.

That's exactly how I feel and what I was looking for in my next gun.
I figure if the gun is so light and I can't ever feel it, that's going to make me carry it everyday even when at work and I have to have wear nice tucked in clothing.

I took a hard look at how often I do (and can) carry my G19 with Mtac and I found I've been carrying it less and less due to work and the fact that even though the g19/mtac is a good setup, you still always know it's there when you're carrying it.

Weather is starting to get warm here, kinda hard to wear a t shirt and not have to think about printing, shirt riding up, where I sit down at a restaurant, etc etc etc.

internal
06-20-2011, 09:37
I picked up a kel tec .380 and really like it. Very light, accurate (w/in 7 yards), and concealable - especially with a belt clip. It has pushed my kahr cw9 to 2nd place as a carry pistol. In Florida's heat, you have to consider your clothing and the type of pistol you carry.


From what I understand the LCP is really a rip off of the keltec P3at so we're talking about the same pistol here, glad to hear it's worked out well for you.

BTW that Kahr is a really nice pistol but man that thing is EXPENSIVE.
The less then $300 price tag of the LCP was one of the pro's for me and really helped me decide that I'm ok with buying 380 as much as I wanted to stick with 9mm for obvious reasons.

ricklee4570
06-20-2011, 09:42
I have read too many accounts of failures to stop with the .380 rounds.

I think the old saying that most of the shooting schools use is "carry a .380 when you cant carry a gun".

Just1More
06-20-2011, 09:44
Already got one. Love it. Much easier to carry than my Blocks.

NWGlocker
06-20-2011, 09:48
I'm a big fan of the LCP too. It's so light, even when loaded, that I forget it's on me after the first minute of carry. It's definately not a range gun, but when practicing with it, I can nail a paper plate at 15 yards. They're not the tighest groups, but if I ever have to use this pistol, the distance will be much closer than 15 yards anyway. At the price they're at, why not own one?

Yep. I decided the G19 was a little too big, the SP101 was a little too heavy, but the LCP is just right. I have since added a G33 to my collection and love it, but the LCP still gets carry time. If I am in the house it is in my pocket 80% of the time. The rest of the time I still have my other carry gun on.

internal
06-20-2011, 10:04
I have read too many accounts of failures to stop with the .380 rounds.

I think the old saying that most of the shooting schools use is "carry a .380 when you cant carry a gun".

I've heard of cases of .45 not stopping someone.
I've heard of cases of 7.62x39 not stopping someone.

Where do you draw the line?
Is 9mm the magical line?
Is 40 the magical line?

IMO, buy what you know you'll carry daily, practice with it as much as you can and everything will fall into place.

I don't get caught up in thinking certain calibers are instant death rays anymore.

Dr.Midnight
06-20-2011, 10:26
I have read too many accounts of failures to stop with the .380 rounds.

I think the old saying that most of the shooting schools use is "carry a .380 when you cant carry a gun".

When given the opportunity, I would certainly carry a larger caliber gun. We all can agree that the larger the caliber, the better chance of stopping someone immediately. However, let's say I'm forced to fire at an attacker, and I manage to put 3 out of my seven rounds of .380 into them. If they aren't down, I'm probably going to have an advantage over them if they get their hands on me.

I'm in the same situation as the OP. My dress dictates what I can carry a lot of the time.

Shinesintx
06-20-2011, 10:29
When I cannot carry my G33 comfortably, I carry the LCP....and it seems that during the Summer, its my best option. Well, at least until my Kimber Solo comes in. Who knows when that will be???

Dr.Midnight
06-20-2011, 10:35
When I cannot carry my G33 comfortably, I carry the LCP....and it seems that during the Summer, its my best option. Well, at least until my Kimber Solo comes in. Who knows when that will be???

Oooooh. I want one of those too!

Aahzz
06-20-2011, 10:46
I'm not going to go buy an LCP because I prefer my S&W Bodyguard .380. Glad you dig your LCP, though.

Captains1911
06-20-2011, 10:59
This is kind of a ridiculous thread, comparing a G19 to an LCP.

internal
06-20-2011, 11:08
When I cannot carry my G33 comfortably, I carry the LCP....and it seems that during the Summer, its my best option. Well, at least until my Kimber Solo comes in. Who knows when that will be???

The solo looks nice but it's like the rest of them, it's over a pound unloaded.
Too heavy for pocket carry, so you're left with using a holster and in turn if you have to use a holster there's better options.

internal
06-20-2011, 11:10
This is kind of a ridiculous thread, comparing a G19 to an LCP.

This is the section of the board that is about carrying.

In that context, how is the LCP vs. the g19 not up for discussion?

Straight_Shooter
06-20-2011, 11:11
+1
I love my LCP. Works great IWB, pocket, or ankle, depending on the dress and situation. I still prefer my G26 or XD, but as you said a .380 in the pocket beats a 9mm at home.

schaibaa
06-20-2011, 11:11
I have an LCP .. it's ok. It's a crappy gun in a very small package. That does make it better than no gun - so if you aren't comfortable carrying your G19 - then the LCP is a good choice.

Fedor
06-20-2011, 11:21
There's no way I will ever trust a .380 for self defense.

fowl intent
06-20-2011, 11:23
I have carried a Kel-Tec p3at for the last 3 years, but always felt a little under gunned. I bought a Kahr CM-9, a month or so ago, and yes it is larger and heavier, BUT it is a
9mm, not a .380 ACP. My pocket may be a little bulgier, but I feel I am now adequately armed if I ever need to defend myself. That confidence is worth a good bit in my book.

Captains1911
06-20-2011, 11:53
This is the section of the board that is about carrying.

In that context, how is the LCP vs. the g19 not up for discussion?

Maybe because it's just so obvious.... It's like saying, "I love my SUV, but man this smart car really gets great mileage."

Gallium
06-20-2011, 12:12
Biggest problem with the LCP in a Smart Carry or pocket holster is you COMPLETELY FORGET you have it.

I've caught myself about to enter a school and a "secure" facility with mine on. I was literally in front of the scanner, with the guy telling me to empty my pockets of keys, coins, etc etc when I remembered the gun. He saw the look on my face, and asked me "what's up??"

I really don't like prison buddies, so good thing I remembered.

'Drew

eracer
06-20-2011, 12:33
Biggest problem with the LCP in a Smart Carry or pocket holster is you COMPLETELY FORGET you have it.

I've caught myself about to enter a school and a "secure" facility with mine on. I was literally in front of the scanner, with the guy telling me to empty my pockets of keys, coins, etc etc when I remembered the gun. He saw the look on my face, and asked me "what's up??"

I really don't like prison buddies, so good thing I remembered.

'DrewI have to consciously 'think about' my Kahr PM45. I wear BDU's for daily wear (except when I need to wear dressier pants, and my .45 disappears in the front pocket, despite the fact that it weighs 24 oz. fully loaded.

I've been thinking of getting an LCP for those times when I wear dressier pants. I don't do IWB or OWB well.

I'll have to think even harder when I carry the LCP. (That's gonna' hurt like heck...)

internal
06-20-2011, 12:42
Maybe because it's just so obvious.... It's like saying, "I love my SUV, but man this smart car really gets great mileage."

Both are serving the same role in the end, it just comes down to personal preference and the needs at hand.

You done trollin yet or what?

whitebread
06-20-2011, 12:47
I have a G19 with Mtac and while I love that carry setup, it's big enough of a setup that I can't carry at work (semi-casual, shirt tucked in) nor can I go biking, hiking or running without really feeling the G19 there.

That is the same reasoning that I have a PM9. Can't get away with the G27 or G30 at work...or other various formal social situations.

TheJ
06-20-2011, 12:57
I have the LCP and P380 and IMHO both are terrific for their intended purpose. Although I favor the P380, I think most would say the LCP wins value equation. In a desantis super fly pokect holster they are super easily able to be carried practically anywhere. Heck.. you could practically almost carry one of them wearing a pair of light weight basketball shorts with a pocket holster.

internal
06-20-2011, 13:05
There's no way I will ever trust a .380 for self defense.

I'm willing to bet you feel the same way about 9mm?

I could def see how the .4x only guys would feel that way about .380
As a 9mm guy, 380 is acceptable to me at least.

SevenSixtyTwo
06-20-2011, 13:09
I carry my wife's LCP on occasion. I wouldn't mind having one of my own. For the SUV comparison, same SUV but with a less powerful engine. The .380 is still a 9mm round but with less power. We carry FMJ for penetration in the LCP. I keep thinking about FMJ in my G26 for the same reason. The .45ACP guys think the 9mm round is underpowered. The guys with AR-15's an AK's know all handguns are underpowered.

randyc74
06-20-2011, 13:11
I have a Ruger LCP myself. It's proven to be a very reliable pocket pistol. I usually wear 511 cargo pants on duty and the little LCP makes a perfect back up to by G23 or G27 duty weapons. It's also rides in my pocket while at home or in my shop.
Here's a photo of mine.

Randy

http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/yy117/BulldogCustomGunLeather/RugerLCPfrontpocket-1.jpg

SAR in FL
06-20-2011, 13:22
217228

It's my EDC. Look at it compared to my G17 and tell me which one you'd rather carry all day long.

Fedor
06-20-2011, 13:28
There's no way I will ever trust a .380 for self defense.

I'm willing to bet you feel the same way about 9mm?

I could def see how the .4x only guys would feel that way about .380
As a 9mm guy, 380 is acceptable to me at least.

No, I trust Speer Gold Dot 9mm

Captains1911
06-20-2011, 13:43
I'm willing to bet you feel the same way about 9mm?

I could def see how the .4x only guys would feel that way about .380
As a 9mm guy, 380 is acceptable to me at least.

HUGE difference in ballistics between .380 and 9mm.

internal
06-20-2011, 13:51
No, I trust Speer Gold Dot 9mm

I'm confused.

Just so I'm clear you mean to say you trust your life to a GD in 9mm but not a GD in .380?

I mean I get that .380 JHP's have a hard time getting to 12" in gel but it seems a bit rash to conclude that there's this huge drop off point from 9mm to .380.

.38 special and .380 are pretty similar and I feel .38 special is OK for defense.
Different strokes, different folks I guess.

Captains1911
06-20-2011, 14:00
I'm confused.

Just so I'm clear you mean to say you trust your life to a GD in 9mm but not a GD in .380?

I mean I get that .380 JHP's have a hard time getting to 12" in gel but it seems a bit rash to conclude that there's this huge drop off point from 9mm to .380.

.38 special and .380 are pretty similar and I feel .38 special is OK for defense.
Different strokes, different folks I guess.

He is saying that not trusting .380 does not necessarily put him in the .40 cal+ group, and rightfully so. It has nothing to do with different strokes... It has to do with the ballistics of a 9mm vs. a .380, there is a huge difference, and way too many documented cases of a .380 barely even penetrating thru clothing. I have no worries about carrying Speer Gold Dot in 9mm, I do sometimes, but no way am i carrying .380 in anything.

beforeobamabans
06-20-2011, 14:17
I'm glad you're happy with your choice. I truly hope that if you ever need to use it, it is adequate for your needs. When I read these threads where capacity is the first sacrifice for comfortable carry, I think of the GT member who was assaulted while jogging and used all eight rounds in his Kimber .45 to kill one assailant and scare off the other. He was out of ammo and very happy that perp #2 ran off.

beforeobamabans
06-20-2011, 14:20
217228

It's my EDC. Look at it compared to my G17 and tell me which one you'd rather carry all day long.
Easy, G17.

internal
06-20-2011, 14:30
Easy, G17.

Does not get hot ever where you live?
What do you do for work when you carry?

What if you want to go hiking, rafting, biking, go for a swim or whatever it is you do for fun how do you lug a larger gun around?

I ended up leaving the g19 at home more and more when doing these things.
Everyone has different thresholds on what is or isn't working for them.

TheJ
06-20-2011, 14:59
Everyone makes trades offs in their carry decisions. The variables are numerous as are the possible decisions made.

Fedor
06-20-2011, 15:05
HUGE difference in ballistics between .380 and 9mm.

He is saying that not trusting .380 does not necessarily put him in the .40 cal+ group, and rightfully so. It has nothing to do with different strokes... It has to do with the ballistics of a 9mm vs. a .380, there is a huge difference, and way too many documented cases of a .380 barely even penetrating thru clothing. I have no worries about carrying Speer Gold Dot in 9mm, I do sometimes, but no way am i carrying .380 in anything.

Amen. If you're going to carry, carry something that will get the job done.
I personally prefer .45ACP, but there is some quality 9mm ammo out there.

off road
06-20-2011, 15:09
Pick your load carefully! The 380 is more than it use to be. I tested some Critical Defense on water jugs, and they did better than any 380 load I have ever seen.

beforeobamabans
06-20-2011, 15:24
Does not get hot ever where you live?
What do you do for work when you carry?

What if you want to go hiking, rafting, biking, go for a swim or whatever it is you do for fun how do you lug a larger gun around?

I ended up leaving the g19 at home more and more when doing these things.
Everyone has different thresholds on what is or isn't working for them.

I usually carry my G26 in a Brommeland Max Con V on a Beltman belt. It's hard for me to imagine this rig being too large, too heavy or too hard to conceal. I don't carry at work because it is not allowed by my employer and frankly, my job is more important than carrying. If I am hiking or biking, I will usually go OWB with any of my Glocks below. I'll have to admit, I don't carry while swimming. :wavey:

Add: here's where state law is a factor. In my state, there is no distinction between open and concealed carry...you get a permit, you carry any way you want. So, while I typically CC, I don't have to worry about a loose cover garment that might expose my carry. So, in hot weather, where shorts and sandals are appropriate, I might wear an untucked, unbuttoned denim shirt with rolled up sleeves over an undershirt. If I have to tuck, I might choose my G30 in a CBST. There are options that work. I do appreciate your weight concern because I do have a bad back which is better served by OWB.

REA9mm
06-20-2011, 15:32
I carry my LCP as a primary only when I am unable to carry any other gun, other times, it's carried as a BUG. I'll carry it in a pocket, IWB, or on my ankle, depending on the situation and my dress. Especially when it's hot out, sometimes it's the only concealable option for me.

In order of my comfort in being able to conceal them, I would list my carry guns like this.

1. LCP - can always be concealed no matter what I'm wearing
2. SP101 .357 3" - can conceal with just a t-shirt, but have to be wearing a belt b/c I carry it IWB.
3. RIA 1911 3.75" - can usually conceal with just a t-shirt, but definitely need a good belt and usually long pants...it's very heavy.
4. Glock 19 - It's a block. IWB carry can sometimes be concealed with a t-shirt, but not always.

In order of my comfort in being able to stop a threat with them, I would list my carry guns like this.

1. Glock 19 - Best capacity and good defense round in terms of ballistics. Also, I am most comfortable and accurate with this gun.
2. RIA 1911 - Excellent stopping power, single action trigger makes it very accurate.
3. SP 101 - Great stopping power and muzzle velocity. Limited rounds are a concern, slow reloads. Still need to improve my accuracy with the DA trigger.
4. LCP - Weakest round. Long DA trigger. Grip is somewhat awkward due to size.

Shinesintx
06-20-2011, 15:37
The solo looks nice but it's like the rest of them, it's over a pound unloaded.
Too heavy for pocket carry, so you're left with using a holster and in turn if you have to use a holster there's better options.


I am gonna pocket carry it...and you dont have to like it.:tongueout:


Who knows, I may end up carrying it in the small of my back. Ya never know, but I still wants it.

ricklee4570
06-20-2011, 15:52
Im not thrilled with a short barrel 9mm. With that said I would carry an LC9 with Gold Dot short barrel 124 grain +P. If I found myself in a life or death situation that is the minimum I would be okay with. I would not be comfortable with the. 380.

10 years ago my wife was shot at point blank range by a scumbag with a. 380. Two bullets, one in the shoulder the other in the upper back.

Due to lack of penetration, she was in the hospital less than an hour. I was very thankful that a. 380 was used. The investigating officer told me he has seen dozens and dozens of. 380 failures. This was in Kansas City where shootings are unfortunately very common.

Donn57
06-20-2011, 16:52
I suspect that not many folks who advocate carrying a .380 as primary weapon have found themselves in situations where they might have actually needed to use their gun.

A few years ago I had an errand to run less than a mile from my house. I grabbed up just my Kel-Tec P-32 (basically a .32 LCP). Without going into boring details, I found myself in a dicey situation with a very angry man who was bigger, younger, and stronger than I. Although the situation never required me to draw my weapon, that little P-32 was NOT very comforting. I wouldn't have felt any better if I'd had a .380.

I quickly sold the P-32 so not to be tempted to ever carry it again as a primary weapon. At the time my primary carry was a Glock 19. After that I never went out without it and I've not replaced the P-32 with anything similar and don't intend to.

schaibaa
06-20-2011, 17:18
Im not thrilled with a short barrel 9mm. With that said I would carry an LC9 with Gold Dot short barrel 124 grain +P. If I found myself in a life or death situation that is the minimum I would be okay with. I would not be comfortable with the. 380.

10 years ago my wife was shot at point blank range by a scumbag with a. 380. Two bullets, one in the shoulder the other in the upper back.

Due to lack of penetration, she was in the hospital less than an hour. I was very thankful that a. 380 was used. The investigating officer told me he has seen dozens and dozens of. 380 failures. This was in Kansas City where shootings are unfortunately very common.


I'm sorry to hear that - seriously that is ****ty.

When you say .380 failures - do you mean failure to kill? What criteria should we use to evaluate the effectiveness of a load? Obviously we'd expect a .380 to penetrate less than a 9mm round. How much? Does it matter?

Everyone talks about how you need 12" of penetration to reliably stop an attacker - however in the attack mentioned in this story, the 2nd robber wasn't even shot before he ran off. Did the first robber stop because he was hit 8 times with .45? 2 times? Would it have mattered if he was hit 2 times with .380? From what I understand, unless the CNS/heart/brain is damaged, the outcome is entirely dependant on the persons fight or flight response. Would I rather have a mainstream caliber? Yes, but to trust your life on one caliber and not the other seems like faulty science to me. Basically no caliber is 'reliable' and having a gun merely gives you better odds of survival. I think a mainstream caliber also increases your chances of survival ... but much less than actually having a gun in the first place.

So if its LCP or nothing, I'll take the LCP.

kensteele
06-20-2011, 17:27
Wow is all I have to say.

I have a G19 with Mtac and while I love that carry setup, it's big enough of a setup that I can't carry at work (semi-casual, shirt tucked in) nor can I go biking, hiking or running without really feeling the G19 there.

Friend of mine picked up an LCP for his girl and I was able to try it out on our last shooting trip and I couldn't believe how small, light and how well the gun felt in the hand and shot.

Now I have 7 rounds of .380 on me ALL times, vs. 16 rounds of 9mm at my house majority of the time. It was a great trade off IMO.

I wanted a G26 at first but then I started realizing I wouldn't be in any different of a situation vs. my G19, maybe save a few OZ but the G26 is still a heavy gun and as well all know it's far from a pocket gun.

The LCP is 9.5oz unloaded and 12.5oz fully loaded with 7 rounds of 380.

I have an LCP, can't wait to get rid of it. Replaced it with a Kahr P380 which is 20 times better. IMHO

Fedor
06-20-2011, 17:43
I have an LCP, can't wait to get rid of it. Replaced it with a Kahr P380 which is 20 times better. IMHO

Better? It's still a .380 :upeyes:
If you need to stop someone wired on meth a .380 will just piss them off.

superdoc
06-20-2011, 17:46
piss them off? go for the bean ball then....

Ruggles
06-20-2011, 17:58
I think the .380 is a acceptable defensive round, not as weak as some say and not as effective as others do. It has stood the test of time and use so it has something to it IMO.

Not my first choice but I would not consider someone unarmed if they are carrying a .380 like some folks would. I certainly would rather have a .380 than nothing. :)

Not sure about the LCP but Ruger makes good stuff so I would imagine it is a quality handgun. I went with the Sig 238 as it more closely matches the 1911 I prefer.

Simpleman71
06-20-2011, 19:03
I also have one and like it, just don't carry it much. I have more piece of mind with my g27.

BailRecoveryAgent
06-20-2011, 22:28
217228

It's my EDC. Look at it compared to my G17 and tell me which one you'd rather carry all day long.

Easy, G17.

G17 over LCP for me as well. I would never use a .380 as a primary carry gun, and doubtful that I would carry one as a backup with as many good choices in single stack 9mm weapons these days. LC9, PF-9, CM9, PM9, CW9, all good choices.

But if .380 is what a person prefers, there satisfaction is all that matters.

DaneA
06-20-2011, 23:40
I don't get how some of you guys can't figure out how to conceal a 19,26,27 or similar. I have to wear a solid color shirt and khakis everyday to work. I have to keep my shirt tucked in. I have never had anyone spot my my CBST. I even sat for many hours with my loss prevention manager and he didn't notice anything (until we got on the subject of CC and I showed him, then he order his own CBST).

As far as caliber goes, it doesn't matter so long as you can shoot. A slingshot loaded with a marble will take someone down if you hit them in the head.

Glock23lover
06-21-2011, 01:01
My LCP is currently back at Ruger getting repaired. It is about 1 1/2 years old with less than 400 rounds through it. It is having FTE (failure to extract) issues. Basically 33% of the time the shell casing will not extract. I have tried different brands of ammo and three seperate magazines after several thorough cleanings and still having the FTE. It is probably just a bad extractor or extractor spring but I have now lost confidence in it since it is fairly new.

I had been contemplating saleling it for awhile due to not feeling confident in the .380 round, especially after researching videos and data on lack of penetration and reading how Massad Ayoob and other respected firearms experts feel about the penetrating and stopping power of the .380. I decided to order a new Kahr PM9. It will be here tomorrow and it will now be the smallest firearm I am willing to carry. Besides, I rarely found an ocassion that I couldn't conceal my Glock 27 and I felt a lot more confident having 10 rounds of .40 on my side that 7 rounds of .380 in my pocket.

Glock23lover

sharp
06-21-2011, 01:18
I checked out all super small 9mm's and all seem to be at least 15oz unloaded and usually at least 1.5lbs loaded.
.

Must not have looked at the Rorbaugh?

Dr.Midnight
06-21-2011, 02:21
Must not have looked at the Rorbaugh?

$$$$$$$$$$

dregotglock
06-21-2011, 08:40
everyone should carry what they are comfortable carrying - political yes - correct yes.

If you feel, and trust, a .380 will protect you then good for you. I would rather have you carry a .380 vs nothing at all. we do not have to like it because it is 100% your consequence if the .380 fails to stop a threat. Then again - we have all heard 9mm (even up to .45) not stopping a threat from a bg on meth or crack or drunk or well you get it. BUT.... if you are capable of carrying something with a little more punch why not a .38+p vs the .380? For example - I shoot a ruger lcr 38 and use whitebox jhp of the +p family. While not a fun gun to shoot for 100's of rounds at the range - I am 100% confident that I can get 15-20 rounds downrange without issue, and put a minimum of 100 rounds thru here each visit to the range

again - for the record - I encourage everyone to carry what they can handle - be it a .22 or a .454 - I dont care just be safe and carry if you legally able.

geneo696
06-21-2011, 19:57
I carry a Glock 19 or a Glock 23 most of the time. I carry a Ruger LCP all of the time. A .380 auto round might not have the stopping power of a .40, .45 or 10mm, but I am confident that if I hit someone in the face, neck, or any other place on there body 6 times at 8 feet with an LCP, if they are tweaking, drunk or high on PCP, they will stop!

kensteele
06-21-2011, 20:27
Better? It's still a .380 :upeyes:
If you need to stop someone wired on meth a .380 will just piss them off.

for me, better means trigger control and managed recoil.

for me, the kahr is 50 times better than the lcp...at least.

Rick O'Shay
06-21-2011, 20:36
I carry LCP daily, but don't like it much. Except for the HUGE advantage on concealability and weight. I pocket-carry, in a mini-holster. I can hit a pie plate with it at 20', and I guess that's enough. Not a "shooter" by any means. Hate the trigger pull. But it's always available, lightweight, and concealable conveniently.

dkf
06-21-2011, 21:02
BTW that Kahr is a really nice pistol but man that thing is EXPENSIVE.
The less then $300 price tag of the LCP was one of the pro's for me and really helped me decide that I'm ok with buying 380 as much as I wanted to stick with 9mm for obvious reasons.

The CM9 is $140 more than the LCP and not really that much bigger. The PM9 is a good amount more expensive the CM9 but basically the same physical size. The CM9 is more plain.

I really like the LCP in OD Green but it just seems too small for me.

internal
06-21-2011, 23:31
The CM9 is $140 more than the LCP and not really that much bigger. The PM9 is a good amount more expensive the CM9 but basically the same physical size. The CM9 is more plain.

I really like the LCP in OD Green but it just seems too small for me.

I put 100 rounds through it today and it felt good for my hands.
At 5-6 yards I can rapid fire a 7 round string into a fist size grouping.

Loving these small pistols right now.

ADK_40GLKr
06-22-2011, 18:42
I'm confused.

Just so I'm clear you mean to say you trust your life to a GD in 9mm but not a GD in .380?

I mean I get that .380 JHP's have a hard time getting to 12" in gel but it seems a bit rash to conclude that there's this huge drop off point from 9mm to .380.

.38 special and .380 are pretty similar and I feel .38 special is OK for defense.
Different strokes, different folks I guess.

Not to take sides here, but didja read this thread this AM?
http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1351216

BK63
06-23-2011, 19:18
While 380 is not my first choice, when you can't carry something larger, the LCP is a better choice in your pocket than your comb. The LCP is a Ruger and it works and works. I put a lot of rounds through mine before I carried it. Would you want to get shot in the chest with a 380 gold dot? I wouldn't.

orangevol
06-23-2011, 19:21
I used to carry my LCP until I bought my LC9. It's my new pocket gun.

SGT HATRED
06-23-2011, 19:30
Nice mouse gun but horrible trigger... I had a cool engraved model for a while.
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q37/Merlin-X/Glock30055.jpg

jim goose
06-23-2011, 19:43
To each is own, but If I ever carry it has to be a gun that disappears on me. That means even when jogging, or I should say, especially when jogging at night etc...I also could not stand the presence of a g19 on me all day. I do not plan to ever have to fight my way out of a situation that requires so much. If I am up against another gun, then by the time I realize that, its too late to draw anyway. And If its some hoodlum etc...I expect any gun will deter them most of the time. If I have to pull the trigger...then 7 shots of .380 is going to leave a serious mark at 5 yards no matter what. If its more than that, I am hiding in the freezer and waiting for swat to show up.

the ugly
06-23-2011, 21:51
I have a LCP and I find I carry it more due to the size and concealability. Here in Texas it gets pretty hot and shorts and a t shirt doesn't cover an IWB larger gun.

380, 9m or .4x, isn't it about where you place the shot??

OD Green Glock 19
06-24-2011, 01:10
Personally, I hated the LCP. The trigger pull was terrible. I carry a PPK as a backup and on rare occasions as a primary during the summer months. The trigger pull is much smoother. I found that I was able to get a much better grip on it and I don't have abnormally large hands. I found it to be much more accurate/repeatable than the LCP.

I do not understand how people have trouble concealing compact pistols. Even in just a plain white t-shirt and shorts I can easily conceal my CZ75 P-01 in my CBST. To be completely honest, the main reason I carry my PPK is because I like the pistol so much. Even though the CZ is larger and wider it is much more comfortable to carry for extended periods of time. I literally forget that I'm wearing it. Even when I'm driving I hardly notice it. I have never had that luxury with the PPK despite how small/thin it is. I carry the PPK in a High Noon Split Decision and while it is easy to put on and conceal it is nowhere near as comfortable to carry as my CZ75 P-01 in a CBST. Due to the forward cant of the CBST the larger CZ actually conceals even better than the smaller/thinner PPK.

BailRecoveryAgent
06-24-2011, 09:29
If I ever carry it has to be a gun that disappears on me. I also could not stand the presence of a g19 on me all day. I do not plan to ever have to fight my way out of a situation that requires so much.

Nobody plans on having to use their gun to fight their way out of a bad situation, but it happens, things don't always go as planned.


If I am up against another gun, then by the time I realize that, its too late to draw anyway.

Situational awareness is one of the most important, if not the most important, aspect of self defense.

And If its some hoodlum etc...I expect any gun will deter them most of the time. I wouldn't count on it. [/QUOTE]


[QUOTE=the ugly;17537474]
380, 9m or .4x, isn't it about where you place the shot??

Yes, but the problem with .380 ammo, like Massad Ayoob pointed out in the GATE section, you can either get the necessary penetration, or expansion, but you're not likely to get both.

reppans
06-24-2011, 13:43
I have a G19 and then bought the LCP for summer carry. "Meh" is all I can say. Went out and bought a G26 within a week I was so disappointed.

Only 150 rounds through the LCP (vs 1500 between my Gen 4 19 and 26) and the only gun I've had ANY issues with - FTF, FTE, light primer strikes. Can't seem to hit **** with it either - I'm more accurate with the G26 at 75 feet then the LCP at 25 feet. Can't even manually cycle a clip of snap cap through the gun without jamming :upeyes:.

Quality, fit finish is also much less than the proportional price to a Glock would suggest.

I sure carries nice though.

internal
06-24-2011, 13:56
I have a G19 and then bought the LCP for summer carry. "Meh" is all I can say. Went out and bought a G26 within a week I was so disappointed.

Only 150 rounds through the LCP (vs 1500 between my Gen 4 19 and 26) and the only gun I've had ANY issues with - FTF, FTE, light primer strikes. Can't seem to hit **** with it either - I'm more accurate with the G26 at 75 feet then the LCP at 25 feet. Can't even manually cycle a clip of snap cap through the gun without jamming :upeyes:.

Quality, fit finish is also much less than the proportional price to a Glock would suggest.

I sure carries nice though.

Sounds like you got a lemon, mines been flawless for 200 rounds now.
From what I understand ruger is very responsive and has about a two week turn around.

My G19 gets a FTEj about every 200 rounds or so when using practice ammo so I would say my lcp has been more reliable then my g19 so far with regular ammo.

YMMV

hddave
06-24-2011, 14:00
Bought an lcr in.357 for my wife, she shoots .38 out of it and just loves it. I hadn't shot a revolver in years and have to admit it is a nice little piece and even more fun loaded with magnum rounds!

cadillacguns
06-25-2011, 05:09
I will take my G-27 over a LCP in a gunfight anyday, why be undergunned in todays world?

Sam Spade
06-25-2011, 06:53
Sounds like some talisman salesmen are fully employed.

If a .380 pistol with a sub-3" sight radius solves your problem, go for it--and I mean that. Just remember that your problem isn't really heat and inconvenience, it's someone who wants to kill you. And about a third of the time, it's several someones that want to kill you.

It was 109 here yesterday, and hotter on the pavement. My G22 was happy in a Kramer IWB. I'm not really persuaded by some of the weather woes.

doktarZues
06-25-2011, 07:03
I carried a g19 for 5 or 6 years religiously. Picked up an LCP with the notion that I would only carry it when it was not practical or possible to carry the g19. I looked up and realized I had gotten lazzzzzzy and couldn't remember the last time I carried the g19.

So I did what any responsible gun owner serious about safety would do....I went out and got a new gun! Kahr CW9 in a smart holster is as concealable as the LCP pocket carry, is just big enough for me to get a full grip and is 7+1 9mm. I've found it to truly be the perfect compromise in form/function between the g19 and lcp.

I carry my LCP once or twice every month or two and that's because I have gym shorts on and have an unexpected slurpee attack/gas station run or something.

SDGlock23
06-25-2011, 07:20
Love my LCP, it's been 100% reliable and nicely accurate. I am interested though in the new Diamondback DB9, it's barely any larger and it's 9mm, it's what the LC9 should have been, size wise.

jdavionic
06-25-2011, 07:39
I love my LCP as well. It was purchased back when they first came out. So it's been back to Ruger twice now - once for the recall mod and a second time for repair.

On the second, I created a thread on the issues. Bottom line, I had failure to fire on SD rounds and a pin in the frame started walking out. Ruger paid all shipping, replaced the entire frame, replace both recoil springs, and replaced the firing pin spring.

With all that said, I am very comfortable relying on this gun. I don't know how many rounds I've put through, but likely more than the average LCP owner since I am more inclined to shoot it given I reload .380. So ammo cost is not really a factor.

My wife has an LCP too, so does my Dad and my Uncle. All of these LCPs have had zero problems.

The pros for the gun are definitely the convenience of putting it in your pocket holster and go. I also usually carry a G19 or XD sub. Great guns too, but they are not as convenient. LCP is exactly what it was designed for - a pocket gun. IMHO, it is a close range point & shoot gun. Fits that well.

Some cons - I would have liked better sights, even though it's a point and shoot. I put CT laser on it, which I think was a good addition. The trigger pull is tough for some folks and is often cited as a con. However I view it as part of the safety of the gun and don't consider it an issue. I've shot the gun so much that it doesn't bother me at all.

The only con that does bother me is that the slide does not lock back on empty. I consider it a low risk issue though. The risk is that you get in a confrontation that requires more than the 6+1 rounds. That's a risk that I'm willing to accept with this gun given how I use it. I believe S&W .380 bodyguard does have the slide lock feature, which is a good plus for that gun.

Anyway, that's my $0.02 worth from someone that has shot it a lot, experienced issues, has multiple LCPs in the family, and has shot many other guns.

hhb
06-25-2011, 07:44
Our County Coroner says the caliber doesn't seem to make a difference to his customers.

Sam Spade
06-25-2011, 07:50
Our County Coroner says the caliber doesn't seem to make a difference to his customers.

Not sure if serious.

Wake_jumper
06-25-2011, 08:07
I love my little Elsie Pea. She goes with me everywhere. Buffalo Bore 95gr FMJ.

hhb
06-25-2011, 08:14
Not sure if serious.



After a 27 year career in law enforcement and going to a job as director of security at a local hospital with my office next to the morgue, I can tell you the coroner is serious. I've seen gunshot deaths from .22 short all the way up the scale.

Sam Spade
06-25-2011, 08:35
After a 27 year career in law enforcement and going to a job as director of security at a local hospital with my office next to the morgue, I can tell you the coroner is serious. I've seen gunshot deaths from .22 short all the way up the scale.

Okay, then I'll address it seriously. We don't take the coroner's word for this stuff, simply because he doesn't see the ones that get away. And the ones he sees who have bled out after an hour, having beaten the other guy to death first, don't really help us either.

In short, we're interested in stopping fights ASAP, and the coroner gives relatively little information about that. His customers don't correlate well with our problems.

BailRecoveryAgent
06-25-2011, 09:12
Our County Coroner says the caliber doesn't seem to make a difference to his customers.

Exactly, his customers. Like Sam said, that doesn't take into consideration the ones that live and continue to reek havoc with a gun shot wound or two.

internal
06-25-2011, 09:29
Love my LCP, it's been 100% reliable and nicely accurate. I am interested though in the new Diamondback DB9, it's barely any larger and it's 9mm, it's what the LC9 should have been, size wise.

I've been seriously eyeballing the DB9 also.

Going to wait for the bugs to get smoothed out (probably give it another year) and then I'm all over that gun.

internal
06-25-2011, 09:31
I love my LCP as well. It was purchased back when they first came out. So it's been back to Ruger twice now - once for the recall mod and a second time for repair.

On the second, I created a thread on the issues. Bottom line, I had failure to fire on SD rounds and a pin in the frame started walking out. Ruger paid all shipping, replaced the entire frame, replace both recoil springs, and replaced the firing pin spring.

With all that said, I am very comfortable relying on this gun. I don't know how many rounds I've put through, but likely more than the average LCP owner since I am more inclined to shoot it given I reload .380. So ammo cost is not really a factor.

My wife has an LCP too, so does my Dad and my Uncle. All of these LCPs have had zero problems.

The pros for the gun are definitely the convenience of putting it in your pocket holster and go. I also usually carry a G19 or XD sub. Great guns too, but they are not as convenient. LCP is exactly what it was designed for - a pocket gun. IMHO, it is a close range point & shoot gun. Fits that well.

Some cons - I would have liked better sights, even though it's a point and shoot. I put CT laser on it, which I think was a good addition. The trigger pull is tough for some folks and is often cited as a con. However I view it as part of the safety of the gun and don't consider it an issue. I've shot the gun so much that it doesn't bother me at all.

The only con that does bother me is that the slide does not lock back on empty. I consider it a low risk issue though. The risk is that you get in a confrontation that requires more than the 6+1 rounds. That's a risk that I'm willing to accept with this gun given how I use it. I believe S&W .380 bodyguard does have the slide lock feature, which is a good plus for that gun.

Anyway, that's my $0.02 worth from someone that has shot it a lot, experienced issues, has multiple LCPs in the family, and has shot many other guns.


Revolver guys are in that same boat, they don't know when they run out of ammo and a revolver holds less rounds then the LCP.

The new DB9 that came out (lightest 9mm on market) doesn't have a slide stop either. It seems to be par for the course with the super small guns.

internal
06-25-2011, 09:34
After a 27 year career in law enforcement and going to a job as director of security at a local hospital with my office next to the morgue, I can tell you the coroner is serious. I've seen gunshot deaths from .22 short all the way up the scale.

I assume shot placement was a bigger factor then the actual caliber in these cases?
If true, that would mean the practice variable is more important then the ft/lbs of power between 9mm and .380?

Mister_Beefy
06-25-2011, 10:00
If I were in the market for a pocket gun I'd take a serious look at the LCP.

as it stands I'll stick with the G36 and 13 rounds of .45

Rob1109
06-25-2011, 14:22
From what I understand the LCP is really a rip off of the keltec P3at so we're talking about the same pistol here, glad to hear it's worked out well for you.

BTW that Kahr is a really nice pistol but man that thing is EXPENSIVE.
The less then $300 price tag of the LCP was one of the pro's for me and really helped me decide that I'm ok with buying 380 as much as I wanted to stick with 9mm for obvious reasons.

Tried my brothers Kel-Tec and found it uncomfortable to shoot. Tried the LCP and it was noticably easier/controlable. Carry it most of the time. The only thing is the amusing sights, even at 21ft. Overall a great gun. I also carry a 642 or LCR in a right front DeSantis Nemisis holster. Since i'm old I sure wish the LCP had a better front sight. Just hope the BG is only 10ft. away! Best.

dreis454
06-25-2011, 14:29
Had one.....HATED it!

Dr.Midnight
06-25-2011, 17:08
Had one.....HATED it!

Have one. . .LOVE it!

cowboy1964
06-25-2011, 18:07
380 or 9mm what's the difference at 7 yards or less?

.380 is better than nothing but don't kid yourself that it's as potent as a 9mm or larger caliber.

The LCP slaps my hand/fingers painfully. After two mags I was done with it.

Warp
06-25-2011, 20:14
No thank you.

Gene Pool
06-25-2011, 20:44
There's no way I will ever trust a .380 for self defense.

It sure beats a stick. I have been places where only something as small as a LCP would work. Though I would prefer a full size 1911, the little .380 gave lots of reassurance.

Gene

Gene Pool
06-25-2011, 20:47
Had one.....HATED it!

I have one and love it. It's had 250 rounds through it without a hitch. And it's surprisingly accurate in rapid fire. But when conditions allow, I carry my Glock 27 in a Kirkpatrick TSS holster.

Gene

Warp
06-25-2011, 21:00
It sure beats a stick. I have been places where only something as small as a LCP would work. Though I would prefer a full size 1911, the little .380 gave lots of reassurance.

Gene

Fortunately (I guess) I have never been unable to carry a snub nose revolver...even at the beach. Not sure how you can carry an LCP but not a revolver.

I, of course, believe a snub to be better than a little pocket auto

TheJ
06-26-2011, 11:20
Fortunately, I've never been unable to CC my Phalanx CIWS even at the nudist colony.










lol

kensteele
06-26-2011, 12:03
It sure beats a stick. I have been places where only something as small as a LCP would work. Though I would prefer a full size 1911, the little .380 gave lots of reassurance.

Gene

I don't have anything against the small size, the sights, the accuracy, or 380 but for the LCP is was the trigger. It is able to deploy the pistol that left me with little reassurance.

Seraph
06-26-2011, 12:39
...It was 109 here yesterday, and hotter on the pavement. My G22 was happy in a Kramer IWB. I'm not really persuaded by some of the weather woes.

I'm with Sam. I mowed my yard yesterday, with a push mower, while wearing my G19 in a Kydex IWB holster (last week, I did it with a mounted Surefire X300). It was hot, and humid, but my sidearm didn't encumber me in the least - certainly not enough to make me prefer not having it. Of course, I didn't get to dress like a cabana boy, or show off my sexy physique to the neighbors...

Mr.357Sig
06-26-2011, 15:29
An LCP would make a decent BUG, but that's about all it's ever going to be for me. It's a last-ditch option, as far as I'm concerned.