ACOG with Burris fast fire [Archive] - Glock Talk

PDA

View Full Version : ACOG with Burris fast fire


Glover65
06-20-2011, 23:32
Hey All,
First time posting here. I have an ACOG TA31RCO-M4. I also have a Burris Fast Fire with a rail mount. Is there a ring that goes on the ACOG with a small rail on top (I"ve seen them for rifle scopes with a small rail on top) that I can mount the Burris to? I would love to hear what you have to say.

Donnie

AK_Stick
06-21-2011, 00:18
I don't know of one made for the ACOG with a burris mount.


Generally, the fast fire, is regarded, as not tough enough, I don't know of any mounts to saddle a ACOG with one.

They do make rings for the RMR and DR Optic, but those are a little different.

surf
06-21-2011, 02:28
Running a dot optic on the top of an ACOG is far from ideal. I would be more inclined to get an offset rail mount to keep the dot lower to the bore. It is also easier to find quickly even if you need to slightly cant the weapon than if it is top mounted on the ACOG.

AK_Stick
06-21-2011, 02:33
Personal preference I guess.


I prefer my red dots stacked, I've never been able to comfortably use the offset mounted ones with any precision past 15m or so.

surf
06-21-2011, 02:51
I cannot even get a cheek weld when I ran my Doc Optic top mounted on my ACOG. It was more like a chin weld and for myself finding the dot quickly on a stacked set up was painfully slow and inconsistent which I found to be highly unacceptable in critical situations. That was my experience which I find to be a very common complaint another being the height overbore.

Yes canting a weapon requires more familiarity with POA / POI when holding other than vertical so being intimately familiar with trajectory at anything other than vertical becomes critical as distances increase. In reality, for myself, I would say that at about 15m would be about hitting the outer distance where I would be using the red dot and from there I would be just sticking with the ACOG and shooting two eyes open until the distances got a bit further out. In reality the stacked ACOG doc optic was a set up that I ran for a period of time for my spotter weapon and the ACOG pulled the overwhelming majority of work.

AK_Stick
06-21-2011, 03:04
I'm not sure if its the "proper" way to shoot it or not, but what I do is just lift my head up a fraction of an inch to use the red dot.

For the most part, in my line of work, I'm not as worried about a precise shot, at extremely close range, so much as a fast one. I'm going to run my ACOG until it fails, and the red dot was a back up system, not so much as a close range alternative. With both eyes open, while not as accurate, I can hit a target almost, if not just as fast with the ACOG.

The issue I found, was that if I did roll the weapon, I was often shooting poorly, maybe it was a lack of practice, maybe it was my gear, but I just couldn't get it to work well for me. With the stacked red dot, my only real issue was offset at extremely close range. And even then, while I might shoot low, I rarely missed.

However, with like my SPR, I use the TNVC offset SAR rings, and thats about half way between the two.....

Different ways to skin the same cat I suppose.

MadMonkey
06-21-2011, 03:09
Friend and I were just discussing this... he's planning to stack his sights, and I was torn between an offset mount and a magnifier (we're both working on getting AR's put together). I already have a 1 o'clock mount in my stuff, but it'll probably go on something else, since I like the magnifier better. I often switch from left to right handed so an offset would be awkward.

surf
06-21-2011, 03:38
I'm not sure if its the "proper" way to shoot it or not, but what I do is just lift my head up a fraction of an inch to use the red dot.

For the most part, in my line of work, I'm not as worried about a precise shot, at extremely close range, so much as a fast one. I'm going to run my ACOG until it fails, and the red dot was a back up system, not so much as a close range alternative. With both eyes open, while not as accurate, I can hit a target almost, if not just as fast with the ACOG.

The issue I found, was that if I did roll the weapon, I was often shooting poorly, maybe it was a lack of practice, maybe it was my gear, but I just couldn't get it to work well for me. With the stacked red dot, my only real issue was offset at extremely close range. And even then, while I might shoot low, I rarely missed.

However, with like my SPR, I use the TNVC offset SAR rings, and thats about half way between the two.....

Different ways to skin the same cat I suppose.Lifting your head is what I am referring to as establishing a chin weld, kind of tongue and cheek reference as there really is not a consistent weld of any kind. For our guys, lack of consistency in a cheek weld or any point of reference when bringing the weapon on target resulted in guys often "fishing" for the dot and resulted in slower times on target while attempting to maintain a certain degree of accuracy up close. In reality all of our guys have the same issue with the actual speed of the red dot when mounted stacked for CQB work. Again, those of us running the stacked ACOG set ups used a bolt rifle for our primary weapon and the spotters tended to use the stacked ACOG set up, so the concern was a bit less. For a pure up close CQB or entry optic, it wouldn't even be in the running for me, but I digress here.

For myself when the dot was stacked and doing up close work, I just tended to ignore the dot and used the Bindon concept shooting two eyes open. Even though it irritated me, I was still quicker with accuracy using that method then fishing for the dot.

Now I will readily admit that up close room distances under stress where minute of upper torso is acceptable, optics of any particular type becomes less critical as the tendency to even see the optic might decrease, shooter dependent. :)

eracer
06-21-2011, 06:02
It's really odd to me that people would feel the need to use a reflex sight with an ACOG. I'm sure it's ever so slightly faster to acquire a reflex sight, but with two eyes open and BAC on your side, an ACOG is pretty quick up close.

Granted, a reflex is far superior when you can't get a good shooting position, and just need to be able to put a dot on a target regardless of head position.

But the difference between a reflex and an ACOG is far less than the difference between a reflex and a low-power scope that doesn't work as a BAC optic.

M&P15T
06-21-2011, 07:53
Some of these repsonses seem so "AR Nerd" centric. An actual, recently returning from Afghanistan service memember, just bought an ACOG with the Doctor Optic, and he loves it. I've looked at one, and it's an incredible optic combination. Cheek-weld isn't important at HD/SD ranges, rapid tartget aquisition is. That's where this optic shines.

Price, however, is a bit spendy. But then, you get what you pay for.

AK_Stick
06-21-2011, 08:05
Some of these repsonses seem so "AR Nerd" centric. A actual, recently returning from Afghanistan service memember, just bought an ACOG with the Doctor Optic, and he loves it. I've looked at one, and it's an incredible optic combination. Cheek-weld isn't important at HD/SD ranges, rapid tartget aquisition is. That's where this optic shines.

Price, however, is a bit spendy. But then, you get what you pay for.



:rofl:

You do realize that surf's talking about duty use of the ACOG optic right?

M&P15T
06-21-2011, 08:09
:rofl:

You do realize that surf's talking about duty use of the ACOG optic right?

Yes. Is there someting unclear in my post? Oh..wait...maybe not. What do you mean by "duty?"

Oh, and you understand that there's more applications for shooting, optics and ARs than just "duty", right?

BBJones
06-21-2011, 10:08
Yes. Is there someting unclear in my post? Oh..wait...maybe not. What do you mean by "duty?"

Oh, and you understand that there's more applications for shooting, optics and ARs than just "duty", right?


It is clear that you speak often without much thought or substance to back you up.

Carry on.

M&P15T
06-21-2011, 10:55
It is clear that you speak often without much thought or substance to back you up.

Carry on.

Do you mean like you just did?:rofl::rofl:Sorry if you can't pick up what I'm putting down. Oh, and thanks for allowing us to carry on.

Airborne Infantryman
06-21-2011, 11:02
Can't we all just get along? :faint:

M&P15T
06-21-2011, 11:08
Can't we all just get along? :faint:

Maybe...one day. I'm sitting here at my desk listening to Marvin Gaye's What's Going On, so I'm cautiously optimistic.:supergrin:

pag23
06-21-2011, 16:42
I really like reading posts and replies from experts in the field...

Thanks Surf & AK_Stick

surf
06-21-2011, 20:52
It's really odd to me that people would feel the need to use a reflex sight with an ACOG. I'm sure it's ever so slightly faster to acquire a reflex sight, but with two eyes open and BAC on your side, an ACOG is pretty quick up close.

Granted, a reflex is far superior when you can't get a good shooting position, and just need to be able to put a dot on a target regardless of head position.

But the difference between a reflex and an ACOG is far less than the difference between a reflex and a low-power scope that doesn't work as a BAC optic.Some people have eye conditions where even the BAC is not a good or even viable option.

Some of these repsonses seem so "AR Nerd" centric. An actual, recently returning from Afghanistan service memember, just bought an ACOG with the Doctor Optic, and he loves it. I've looked at one, and it's an incredible optic combination. Cheek-weld isn't important at HD/SD ranges, rapid tartget aquisition is. That's where this optic shines.

Price, however, is a bit spendy. But then, you get what you pay for.You have zero clue what you are talking about here. You don't know what you don't know and I have avoided some of your commentary in other threads because the effort to attempt to educate you due to your attitude in these threads would be nearly futile. The information that you seek is out there in quantity and is even easily found on this site in this forum.

:rofl:

You do realize that surf's talking about duty use of the ACOG optic right?It's all good. He doesn't know what he doesn't know and quite frankly I don't think that educating him on mine or your credentials is of importance.

We all have various preferences and various jobs for our weapons and it is nice to have a relevant discussion with someone like yourself. Thanks for doing what you do and I always appreciate being able to exchange information and ideas.

I really like reading posts and replies from experts in the field...

Thanks Surf & AK_StickI always enjoy talking shop with everyone, well most everyone. As long as they have a positive attitude and relevant information to provide and maintain an open mind, discussion is a good thing from the weekend enthusiast all the way to the industry pro's.

Glover65
06-21-2011, 23:23
Wow, thanks for all the fast replies. Lots of good info to go over. The reason I wanted to mount it was I have one, not out of need. I actually agree with the post on shooting with both eyes open while using the ACOG for CQB. That's the way I trained. One thing that someone said about learning to shoot with an offset mount and how you have to compensate with the POA and POI. If you've ever fired with a gas mask on you pretty much have to do the same thing and everyone eventually overcame the awkward hold and shot well. So I think I'll probably mount the Burris on my Smith & Wesson Model 22A-1 (22 LR). I forgot it has a rail on the top of the slide just in front of the rear site :) Extremely helpful. Thanks all :)

M&P15T
06-22-2011, 11:32
Some people have eye conditions where even the BAC is not a good or even viable option.

You have zero clue what you are talking about here. You don't know what you don't know and I have avoided some of your commentary in other threads because the effort to attempt to educate you due to your attitude in these threads would be nearly futile. The information that you seek is out there in quantity and is even easily found on this site in this forum.

It's all good. He doesn't know what he doesn't know and quite frankly I don't think that educating him on mine or your credentials is of importance.

We all have various preferences and various jobs for our weapons and it is nice to have a relevant discussion with someone like yourself. Thanks for doing what you do and I always appreciate being able to exchange information and ideas.

I always enjoy talking shop with everyone, well most everyone. As long as they have a positive attitude and relevant information to provide and maintain an open mind, discussion is a good thing from the weekend enthusiast all the way to the industry pro's.

:rofl::rofl:

Yeah, you're "credentials" are completely unimportant to me. The sad part is that you AR nerds have made this forum so uninviting and hostile with your arrogance and thinly veiled insults, that I and a few other AR enthusiasts have gone to PMs with our discussions about ARs to avoid you select few (SURF, ERACER, AK Stick,et al) that are sure you know everything about ARs.

We're tired of hearing the "you don't know what you don't know" and "stay in your lane" crap you dish out. It's pathetic. You might know ARs, but what you don't know is how to include yourselves in a conversation about ARs with out insulting people.

Get off the computer, and interact with actual, live human beings. You might learn something.

AK_Stick
06-22-2011, 15:17
Thats rather funny.

I've not seen any hostility or name calling or insults aside from what you've brought in. You've challenged others by throwing the service of another member in as justification for something, and then blatantly disregard others experience/credentials. I would say this is one of the better forums for newer people to post in, because its generally a welcome environment to answer questions. You might get a do a search reply, or two, but thats the internet. Most of our guys don't talk down to other shooters, because they're gamers, and/or recreational shooters, and not police, or soldiers.

Now we do have some louder personalities, and some strongly opinionated posters here, but you have that in any social medium. If you don't like what I have to say, or AK popo, or Eracer, or Surf/BCM03/FAA/whoever, just click the ignore button and you'll never have to be inconvenienced with reading any of their posts again. The same could be said for some of the abruptness of the posts, but before you get pissed off, you should consider you can't hear or feel emotion from a post on the internet. Alot of remarks come off cold, or mean, when they were never intended to be so.

I'm really sorry if you feel hated on because we often ask what someone's background and or what training they've had around here is when they're talking about how stuff is. Its not because we're saying if you don't have X you're not good enough, its because we're trying to understand where you're coming from. A 3 gun shooter, is going to have a different set up, and justification for his way of doing things than a soldier. Doesn't make one right or wrong, they're tailored to different things.

Then again, if you'd feel better by hating me, and think I live vicariously through GT, and can't function or deal with people outside, more power to you.

pag23
06-22-2011, 16:07
Thats rather funny.

I've not seen any hostility or name calling or insults aside from what you've brought in. You've challenged others by throwing the service of another member in as justification for something, and then blatantly disregard others experience/credentials. I would say this is one of the better forums for newer people to post in, because its generally a welcome environment to answer questions. You might get a do a search reply, or two, but thats the internet. Most of our guys don't talk down to other shooters, because they're gamers, and/or recreational shooters, and not police, or soldiers.......etc........

.

Good post and response.... I agree that due to the content of words in a post the emotion of voice tone through speaking is lost, so words can come off a little rough or demonstrative. Sometimes I get aggravated by a response to one of my posts but hey... it is the internet and getting into a typing war isn't going to solve it.

I found this forum to be a little less hostile than some of the other AR forums so I don't belong to them and choose to read and post here.

"If you have nothing nice to say, don't say anything at all"

M&P15T
06-22-2011, 16:42
Thats rather funny.

I've not seen any hostility or name calling or insults aside from what you've brought in. You've challenged others by throwing the service of another member in as justification for something, and then blatantly disregard others experience/credentials. I would say this is one of the better forums for newer people to post in, because its generally a welcome environment to answer questions. You might get a do a search reply, or two, but thats the internet. Most of our guys don't talk down to other shooters, because they're gamers, and/or recreational shooters, and not police, or soldiers.

Now we do have some louder personalities, and some strongly opinionated posters here, but you have that in any social medium. If you don't like what I have to say, or AK popo, or Eracer, or Surf/BCM03/FAA/whoever, just click the ignore button and you'll never have to be inconvenienced with reading any of their posts again. The same could be said for some of the abruptness of the posts, but before you get pissed off, you should consider you can't hear or feel emotion from a post on the internet. Alot of remarks come off cold, or mean, when they were never intended to be so.

I'm really sorry if you feel hated on because we often ask what someone's background and or what training they've had around here is when they're talking about how stuff is. Its not because we're saying if you don't have X you're not good enough, its because we're trying to understand where you're coming from. A 3 gun shooter, is going to have a different set up, and justification for his way of doing things than a soldier. Doesn't make one right or wrong, they're tailored to different things.

Then again, if you'd feel better by hating me, and think I live vicariously through GT, and can't function or deal with people outside, more power to you.

I actually don't feel hated on. My reaction is from reading posts where you and your buddies have hacked on other new posters to this forum. You guys have a very specific MO, of hacking on people without understanding their point of view, and chiding them if they're not Military/LEOs. I've got thick skin and a nasty tounge, so I don't have a problem calling ya'll out, but it just saddens me to see the new posters get torn up and then never come back here because you guys can't keep your AR egos in check.

If you can't see it what I'm talking about, it's no surprise, given that you're usually in the middle of it. But make no mistake, I am far from the only person that has noticed this, and sooner or later ya'll are gonna get this forum closed.

Like I said, there is more than a few of us that have simply gone to PMs, because there's too many think-they-know-it-alls that just can't stop themselves from being rude to new posters in this forum. Agree or not, it's truth and reality.

Pick a side buddy, this place can either be a forum to exchange opinions and ideas in a friendly fashion, or it can continue to be the nasty, rude place it currently is.

K. Foster
06-22-2011, 20:32
Pick a side buddy, this place can either be a forum to exchange opinions and ideas in a friendly fashion, or it can continue to be the nasty, rude place it currently is.

The only person I see being rude here is that fella that keeps calling people AR nerds and telling them that their credentials donít matter.

Oh, wait........Thatís YOU!