Question for you Atheists... [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Tilley
06-21-2011, 00:24
I'm sure most of you have experienced first hand the death of a close loved one. Throw away for a moment, your beliefs in science, or your lack of belief in God...

Do you really believe that death is the final act of a human life? All of what comprises of that special person, their joy and laughter, their triumphs and emotions, all the things that are NOT tangible in a physical way...if that is all erased upon the moment of death?

Norske started to express the fact that even as a staunch atheist, even he could tell a physical/spiritual difference and loss to a person at the moment of death.

I have seen it many times. What was once a life becomes a lifeless shell, a doll tossed away, empty. And yet I can still feel the presence of that person at certain times and without explanation.

"For love knows not its own depth, until the hour of separation..." Kahlil Gibran.



Do you really believe it's the end?

Eric SF
06-21-2011, 00:28
Yup. And I'm fine with it

Uzzirider
06-21-2011, 00:51
I'm fine with it too. Enjoyment and fulfillment of the current life does not come from mental ************ (word that means "to stimulate oneself" wow, puritanical word filters sure are touchy.) about the potential afterlife.

ArtificialGrape
06-21-2011, 00:56
Yes, I fully accept that I will never be reunited with those that pass away. They live on in memories and the legacies that they created.

Japle
06-21-2011, 04:17
Posted by Tilley:
Do you really believe that death is the final act of a human life? All of what comprises of that special person, their joy and laughter, their triumphs and emotions, all the things that are NOT tangible in a physical way...if that is all erased upon the moment of death?
Yep. I watched both my parents die. When their brains died, their personalities vanished. The only things left were our memories of them and the physical things they’d left behind.

Norske started to express the fact that even as a staunch atheist, even he could tell a physical/spiritual difference and loss to a person at the moment of death.

No question there’s a physical difference. The person has died, after all.
There’s an emotional loss, obviously, and that may feel like something spiritual to some people.

ksg0245
06-21-2011, 07:50
I'm sure most of you have experienced first hand the death of a close loved one. Throw away for a moment, your beliefs in science, or your lack of belief in God...

Do you really believe that death is the final act of a human life? All of what comprises of that special person, their joy and laughter, their triumphs and emotions, all the things that are NOT tangible in a physical way...if that is all erased upon the moment of death?

Norske started to express the fact that even as a staunch atheist, even he could tell a physical/spiritual difference and loss to a person at the moment of death.

I have seen it many times. What was once a life becomes a lifeless shell, a doll tossed away, empty. And yet I can still feel the presence of that person at certain times and without explanation.

"For love knows not its own depth, until the hour of separation..." Kahlil Gibran.



Do you really believe it's the end?

Yes, it's really the end. That doesn't mean the memory is erased.

bobandshawn
06-21-2011, 08:54
yup...

Sarge1400
06-21-2011, 10:02
Absolutely.

Billua
06-21-2011, 11:06
Yes also, respectfully to the OP...

dsa1115
06-21-2011, 11:21
This video explains it well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwKffj9o

muscogee
06-21-2011, 14:21
A lot of people are afraid of death and use religion to hide from it. As a child I was afraid of death but I outgrew it. Unfortunately, for them, some people never do. As Christopher Hitchens said, “It is wrong to tell children and gullible adults that the dead walk”. Until I see evidence to the contrary, I will continue to believe that death is final.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlBiLNN1NhQ

Tilley
06-21-2011, 21:39
This video explains it well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwKffj9o

Come on man, George Carlin is a ****** bag comedian (and I use the word comedian graciously) doing a comedy skit. He's about as funny as Galagher, and about as profound as Pee Wee Herman.

This is a serious question. Do you believe you cease to exist at the moment of death.

Tilley
06-21-2011, 21:42
Yep. I watched both my parents die. When their brains died, their personalities vanished. The only things left were our memories of them and the physical things they’d left behind.

No question there’s a physical difference. The person has died, after all.
There’s an emotional loss, obviously, and that may feel like something spiritual to some people.

Bro, even animals know when their masters die, and they mourn. They is something more there than the cessation of life.

AlexHassin
06-21-2011, 22:02
Bro, even animals know when their masters die, and they mourn. They is something more there than the cessation of life.

That a dog can sense if something is dead or alive does not surprise me at all. Humans can to an extent to, sometimes you just walk up to a sean and you know they are a goner. We might even smell different to the dog, you know that dead smell. Our hearts stop and our brains die, I don’t see anything else happening.

Davegrave
06-21-2011, 22:15
Yes sir. It's all over. That feeling you feel is your own memories and emotions. They are powerful and wonderful.

bleedingshrimp
06-21-2011, 22:33
Keep holding out for that ice cream you were promised...I'm gonna enjoy the hell out of this steak in the meanwhile.

nmk
06-21-2011, 22:45
I'm sure most of you have experienced first hand the death of a close loved one. Throw away for a moment, your beliefs in science, or your lack of belief in God...

Do you really believe that death is the final act of a human life? All of what comprises of that special person, their joy and laughter, their triumphs and emotions, all the things that are NOT tangible in a physical way...if that is all erased upon the moment of death?



The part in bold is confusing. And to answer your question...of course.

Tapeuup
06-21-2011, 23:39
really believe it's the end

Tilley
06-21-2011, 23:48
Yes, I fully accept that I will never be reunited with those that pass away. They live on in memories and the legacies that they created.

So you believe that the same laws of physics applies to energy that cannot be measured?

Do you also believe that matter can be created?

Can gold be created from lead?

Shinesintx
06-21-2011, 23:52
Not philosophy but Christ.

Eric SF
06-22-2011, 02:32
There is no such thing as energy that cannot be measured, either directly or indirectly. Dark energy cannot be measured (we don't even know what it is except vaguely the energy of a vacuum) but we can indirectly measure it as the accelerating expansion of the universe. We can't see dark matter and don't know what it is, yet we know it exists as we indirectly can see its gravitational impact on nearby galaxies (google "bullet cluster").

yes, matter can be created from energy, and it is possible the universe was created from a quantum fluctuation (i.e., something was created from nothing)

gold cannot be created from lead

Jolly_Giant
06-22-2011, 10:48
This kind of question always bothers me. . .

cowboywannabe
06-22-2011, 11:06
the electricity from our bodies transfers to other objects on and on and on...energy does not go away it simply transfers to other things.

what happens to the electricity that our brains ran on? does it become re-incarnated?

Japle
06-22-2011, 14:40
Posted by cowboywannabe:
what happens to the electricity that our brains ran on? does it become re-incarnated?

No more than the electricity an electric motor ran on becomes reincarnated when you turn it off.

cowboywannabe
06-22-2011, 15:43
No more than the electricity an electric motor ran on becomes reincarnated when you turn it off.

thats got an electrical connection.....or source that stores it.

Japle
06-22-2011, 15:50
thats got an electrical connection.....or source that stores it.

Once you throw the switch, it has neither.

Davegrave
06-22-2011, 16:22
thats got an electrical connection.....or source that stores it.

that electrical energy isn't just "there" in our body. All the bodily functions that keep us alive create it. So when we stop digesting food and our organs stop functioning there is no electricity to go anywhere. It's no longer being made.

steveksux
06-22-2011, 17:45
That's it. You don't believe its over at death? What happens to people that have been underwater too long, starved for oxygen, their bodies revived but their brains dead? All the stuff that made them "them" is gone, but their bodies are still alive.

All the energy that makes up you ends up consumed by bacteria as you decompose.

Randy

fowl intent
06-23-2011, 12:30
I don't consider myself an athiest, but more of a recovering christian (agnostic is probably more accurate). I have given the topic of death a lot of thought. I agree with the OP that there is an observable change in a person in the moment of death. I happen to believe that the change is brought about by the "loss" or "escape" of whatever "energy" differentiates a living being from a pile of flesh/bones/blood/sinew.

This "energy" or "spark" or whatever you want to call it, has been passed on through the reproductive process, from one generation to the next, and can be traced back in an unbroken chain to the very creation of what we define as "life" on this earth.

This "energy" for lack of a better word, is the individual's essence, his soul if you will. I believe this "energy" does live on in some form or fashion, but whether or not conciousness lives along with it I can't say. I do know that there are some fairly well documented and believable accounts of reincarnation. As a matter of fact, I have a family member who is a retired protestant minister, that can recall very detailed events in what he considers to be a past life.

I say all of this to state my conclusion: the recovering christian in me wants to hope and believe that there is something after this life. I want to believe that there is some purpose to our existence, and the trials and tribulations we go through in our lives. But my logical mind tells me that we are not really any different than any other creature, and that we will live in this existence, and will ultimately die. But I can't help but believe that we are all part of a larger design, a collective consciousness if you will, and that this collective consciousness is the creating force in this world. You can call this creating force "god" if you want, but not in the sense of a old, gray haired bearded man who sits up in the clouds and micro-manages the lives of every one of the billions of people on earth.

I have rambled on long enough. Interesting discussion.....

Norske
06-23-2011, 20:38
Just to set the record straight. I do not consider myself to be an aetheist.

My definition of a Theist is one who believes life after death and/or supernatural entities who control our lives after death is a fact. When it is unprovable and therefore cannot be fact, but merely opinion.

An Atheist is at the opposite end; they believe that such controlling supernatural entities do not exist when they can no more prove their non-existence than the theists can prove their existence.

An agnostic simply admits that the question has no answer and so does not take a position one way or the other.

I hope that my departed loved ones found what they hoped to find. But I cannot know if they did or not. And neither can anyone else, know.

dbcooper
06-24-2011, 18:53
I'd say agnostic best describes me. I think there is something beyond this life, ,partly based on dejavu. When I was a kid, around 6, walking home from the store with my brother and a few friends I realized that I had dreamed the entire thing and said so. The older girl with us says "that's dejavu" then tells me it's the feeling of having done something before. I tried to explain this wasn't some feeling, I had dreamed the entire thing. It seemed to me that calling it dejavu was kinda glancing over the implications of what had happened. It's precognition with a but. Since you don't realize you dreamed it until it's in progress it's not like you can dream the lotto numbers and run out and buy a ticket , but in this case and in more than I can estimate since, it was far more than some weird feeling of been here done this. If my mind can dream about places I have never been and people I have not yet met years before it happens then what more is possible?

Dalton Wayne
06-24-2011, 19:39
Tilley so tell me you have zero belief in science at least that,s the way it sounds can you answer without dragging religion into the answer

Tilley
06-24-2011, 20:34
Tilley so tell me you have zero belief in science at least that,s the way it sounds can you answer without dragging religion into the answer

I fancy myself a failed scientist...mediocre grades in college, so I became a cop instead.

I believe science leads one to God. Science in NO WAY proves atheism, or leads one away from God. It is a matter of interpretation, and you folks choose to believe your way and Christians believe theirs.

Personally I believe one chooses atheism because their lifestyle is contrary to what they believe is acceptable to God.

Kingarthurhk
06-25-2011, 06:49
No one has addressed this issue. WHY is there death? We know there is death, but why?

Animal Mother
06-25-2011, 06:52
No one has addressed this issue. WHY is there death? We know there is death, but why? Because systems decay, even organic ones.

fowl intent
06-25-2011, 07:10
Besides, if there were no death, think of the lines at the grocery store.

muscogee
06-25-2011, 08:00
No one has addressed this issue. WHY is there death? We know there is death, but why?

Do you believe it's because God had a temper tantrum over the Garden of Eden thing and is still taking revenge on the descendants of Adam and Eve? How can you respect a God like that?

As I mentioned several years ago, I have been angry with my children, but there is nothing they could do that would make me punish their children (my grandchildren) to get revenge on my them. That's despicable. This is not the way mature people act. It is the act of a spoiled child.

steveksux
06-25-2011, 10:41
I fancy myself a failed scientist...mediocre grades in college, so I became a cop instead.

I believe science leads one to God. Science in NO WAY proves atheism, or leads one away from God. It is a matter of interpretation, and you folks choose to believe your way and Christians believe theirs.

Personally I believe one chooses atheism because their lifestyle is contrary to what they believe is acceptable to God.That last part is kind of shocking to me. You really believe that? Isn't is self-obvious that killing people for their wallet is wrong? Why does one need God to point out the obvious?

It seems like you believe atheists are incapable of being moral.

Randy

AlexHassin
06-25-2011, 11:54
That last part is kind of shocking to me. You really believe that? Isn't is self-obvious that killing people for their wallet is wrong? Why does one need God to point out the obvious?

It seems like you believe atheists are incapable of being moral.

Randy
actylly sense an atheists doing good is doing good not out of fear of some punishment, doesnt that make them more moral?

also i know quite a few gay christians further shooting down his position

ArtificialGrape
06-25-2011, 13:09
Personally I believe one chooses atheism because their lifestyle is contrary to what they believe is acceptable to God.
This is among the more insulting comments directed towards atheists, and smacks of the arrogance demonstrated by discounting an atheist as just being somebody mad at God. The underlying premise is that nobody could really reject the existence of God.

Of course the existence of atheists that behave ethically and Christians that behave unethically demonstrates that there is not a causal relationship between belief and ethical behavior.

I behave more ethically than many Christians -- I've been married faithfully to my high school sweetheart for over 20 years, I'm altruistic, don't steal, murder, ..., and outside of belief/worship, I probably don't behave any differently than what you would consider to be a "good christian" -- though this time of year in particular I enjoy a nice silk-linen blend shirt :cool:.

Your comment might be similar to my telling the Christians here that their "good' behavior has nothing to do with any love of Jesus/God, but only because they fear hell.

-ArtificialGrape

Syclone538
06-26-2011, 21:54
...
Personally I believe one chooses atheism because their lifestyle is contrary to what they believe is acceptable to God.

Can you imagine someone not believing in the Flying Spaghetti Monster or Invisible Pink Unicorn because their lifestyle is different then what the FSM or IPU wants?

cs133atom
06-26-2011, 23:08
Lost=Sad

Tilley
06-26-2011, 23:12
This is among the more insulting comments directed towards atheists, and smacks of the arrogance demonstrated by discounting an atheist as just being somebody mad at God.

-ArtificialGrape

Sorry oh wise one, but I'm gonna have to side with Jesus on this one:

John 3:18-20 (NIV)

Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.

Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed.

ArtificialGrape
06-26-2011, 23:13
Lost=Sad
I'm not sure that I follow. I tried watching Lost around season 3, but I was literally lost. Maybe I'll catch it on Netflix sometime.

Tilley
06-26-2011, 23:16
Your comment might be similar to my telling the Christians here that their "good' behavior has nothing to do with any love of Jesus/God, but only because they fear hell.

-ArtificialGrape

Grapemeister, do you obey the laws because you like them so much, or because jail sucks?

ArtificialGrape
06-26-2011, 23:24
Sorry oh wise one, but I'm gonna have to side with Jesus on this one:

John 3:18-20 (NIV)

Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.

Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed.
So do you believe me when I say that I don't believe in God, or do you think that I just say that so that I can sleep late on Sunday (or is it Saturday) and go about my hedonist ways without guilt?

ArtificialGrape
06-26-2011, 23:29
Grapemeister, do you obey the laws because you like them so much, or because jail sucks?
It seems fair that if you're going to suggest that I'm atheist so that I can live contrary to what God would want, then I can suggest that the only motivation for your faith is fear of hell.

-ArtificialGrape

Oh man, I'm hungry and ate the last baby this afternoon.

Tilley
06-26-2011, 23:47
-ArtificialGrape

Oh man, I'm hungry and ate the last baby this afternoon.

I knew it! I knew it! I was right!!!:rofl:





Have a good night...

Uzzirider
06-27-2011, 08:51
Personally I believe one chooses atheism because their lifestyle is contrary to what they believe is acceptable to God.
No way. I live in religious AZ and we have plenty of theists who cheat, lie, etc. Belief in a higher power has no bearing on ones lifestyle. I've seen it firsthand so many times I stopped counting. Religious people are just as amoral as anyone else.

Guss
06-28-2011, 06:05
...

Can gold be created from lead?
At great expense. It is somewhat easier to create gold from mercury.

bowtie454
06-28-2011, 09:44
I fancy myself a failed scientist...mediocre grades in college, so I became a cop instead.

I believe science leads one to God. Science in NO WAY proves atheism, or leads one away from God. It is a matter of interpretation, and you folks choose to believe your way and Christians believe theirs.

Personally I believe one chooses atheism because their lifestyle is contrary to what they believe is acceptable to God.

So, you weren't good enough in your science classes to pursue a career based on science, yet you are going to lecture folks about how science supports your religious beliefs? I guess you weren't too good at math either, because that doesn't add up.

Your "personal" beliefs as to why people choose to be athiests are no more than opinion, and frankly, uneducated opinion at that. To dismiss the opinions of others just because they don't believe what you believe truly is ignorant. Your statement implies that athiests are somehow less "good" than those who believe in God. Given the number of "Christians" I know who are great examples of bad people, I can tell you that your postulate is false.

muscogee
06-28-2011, 09:51
So, you weren't good enough in your science classes to pursue a career based on science, yet you are going to lecture folks about how science supports your religious beliefs? I guess you weren't too good at math either, because that doesn't add up.

Your "personal" beliefs as to why people choose to be athiests are no more than opinion, and frankly, uneducated opinion at that. To dismiss the opinions of others just because they don't believe what you believe truly is ignorant. Your statement implies that athiests are somehow less "good" than those who believe in God. Given the number of "Christians" I know who are great examples of bad people, I can tell you that your postulate is false.

Good post!! +1

Uzzirider
06-28-2011, 15:30
oh burn. i just lol'd.

Tilley
06-28-2011, 23:28
So, you weren't good enough in your science classes to pursue a career based on science, yet you are going to lecture folks about how science supports your religious beliefs? I guess you weren't too good at math either, because that doesn't add up.

Your "personal" beliefs as to why people choose to be athiests are no more than opinion, and frankly, uneducated opinion at that. To dismiss the opinions of others just because they don't believe what you believe truly is ignorant. Your statement implies that athiests are somehow less "good" than those who believe in God. Given the number of "Christians" I know who are great examples of bad people, I can tell you that your postulate is false.

Buuuurrrrrnnnnn!!! Ow...hard to feel good about myself after that...:crying:

I wasn't an idiot in science...just lousy in advanced algebra. But I guess that just negates myself altogether then, huh sport?

I'm not saying that atheists are "less gooder" than Christians, only that you have the same opportunities to know Jesus as your Savior, yet you turn your back on Him. In my humble, yet according to you, ignorant opinion, I smell a whole lotta sulfur in your immediate future.

And as the bumper stickers say, "Christians aren't perfect, just forgiven."

You aren't. Unless you ask Jesus into your life, you are lost forever.

Tilley
06-28-2011, 23:29
oh burn. i just lol'd.

You said it, not me...:steamed:

Tilley
06-28-2011, 23:33
Good post!! +1

Old friend Muscogee, I promise not to leave you out either. :devildance:

Seriously bro, open your heart to God. You are a nice guy and a gentleman. Invite God into your heart and be saved.

:innocent: Tilley. :innocent:

muscogee
06-29-2011, 04:06
In my humble, yet according to you, ignorant opinion, I smell a whole lotta sulfur in your immediate future.


Do you see the problem with this statement. It's not humble. It's arrogant. You're boasting about your humility. You're humble and proud of it.

As for giving my heart to Jesus, been there, done that, still got the scars. I have been "saved, saved, saved", as the song says. As I mentioned before, I believed everything the Bible said until I read it. It was reading the Bible that turned me against Christianity. Even the authors of the New Testament were making it up as they went. Jesus would prophecy something. When it didn't happen, they would change the prophesy to fit the facts and go on. Christians still do that. That's why we have so many denominations. They can't all be right.

A lot of Christians haven't accomplished much with their lives. They become Christians so they can feel good about themselves. They adhere to Christianity so they can look down their condescending noses at the rest of us and fantasize about the day they get their rewards and the rest of us get our punishment.

I don't believe the previous paragraph. I just want you to see how you appear to the rest of us.

Syclone538
06-29-2011, 07:19
...
Personally I believe one chooses atheism because their lifestyle is contrary to what they believe is acceptable to God.

Can you imagine someone not believing in the Flying Spaghetti Monster or Invisible Pink Unicorn because their lifestyle is contrary to what they believe is acceptable to FSM or IPU?

bowtie454
06-29-2011, 09:00
Do you see the problem with this statement. It's not humble. It's arrogant. You're boasting about your humility. You're humble and proud of it.


That pretty much sums it up. As far as being saved vs. burning in Hell, that's hardly for you prognosticate. It's an interesting catch-22 for an athiest to argue that point. There are a number of verses in the Bible that indicate that all will be saved, not just the devout. Unfortunately, if you don't believe the Bible is gospel, for lack of a better term, it's pointless to quote it. Oh well. You started this thread asking what athiests believe, and now you are on a crusade to either convert or condemn them. Sorry, I can't say I have much respect for the holier-than-thou attitude. It seems you are merely another in a long line of hypocritical Christians that I have met in my life. Perhaps you should take a close look at the true meaning of Christianity, which is something I truly do believe in.

Tilley
06-29-2011, 20:49
You started this thread asking what athiests believe, and now you are on a crusade to either convert or condemn them. Sorry, I can't say I have much respect for the holier-than-thou attitude. It seems you are merely another in a long line of hypocritical Christians that I have met in my life. Perhaps you should take a close look at the true meaning of Christianity, which is something I truly do believe in.

1. I really don't care to convert atheists. There comes a point for me when I wash my hands of trying to bring the Good News to people who only wish to argue. If you are interested, I'm there...but to argue, I'll pass for now.

2. Sorry, I can't say I have much respect for the holier-than-thou attitude.Not too hard to be "holier-than-thou" with people who deny Jesus as Lord.

3. It seems you are merely another in a long line of hypocritical Christians that I have met in my life. Perhaps you should take a close look at the true meaning of Christianity, which is something I truly do believe in.Getting preached to by an atheist...:rofl:

Tilley
06-29-2011, 20:55
Do you see the problem with this statement. It's not humble. It's arrogant. You're boasting about your humility. You're humble and proud of it...I just want you to see how you appear to the rest of us.

I expect atheists to see me in this light.

You're angry and bitter. You were hurt. I'm sorry about that, but God did not hurt you. And if you can believe in God, then also believe in satan and how he tries to hurt, kill, steal and destroy. He did a good job on you.

Believe in Gods love for you and He WILL heal you.

Tilley
06-29-2011, 21:54
To dismiss the opinions of others just because they don't believe what you believe truly is ignorant.

Then I'm in good company:

Matthew 3:7-10 (NIV) John the Baptist Prepares the Way...


But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to where he was baptizing, he said to them: “You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath? Produce fruit in keeping with repentance. And do not think you can say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham. The ax is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire."

Not very humble is ole Johnny, now is he?

GreenDrake
06-30-2011, 06:05
I believe in Joe Pesci

RC-RAMIE
06-30-2011, 11:54
I expect atheists to see me in this light.

You're angry and bitter.

About what?

Japle
06-30-2011, 14:08
Posted by Tilley:
I expect atheists to see me in this light.

You're angry and bitter. You were hurt. I'm sorry about that, but God did not hurt you. And if you can believe in God, then also believe in satan and how he tries to hurt, kill, steal and destroy. He did a good job on you.
This is as good an example of closed-minded, parochial thinking as you’re likely to find anywhere.

Here’s a guy who simply can’t imagine a legitimate, honest point of view that’s different from his own. :upeyes:

muscogee
06-30-2011, 16:43
I expect atheists to see me in this light.

You're angry and bitter. You were hurt. I'm sorry about that, but God did not hurt you. And if you can believe in God, then also believe in satan and how he tries to hurt, kill, steal and destroy. He did a good job on you.

Believe in Gods love for you and He WILL heal you.

The things you have written on this page really make Christianity and Christians look bad. Keep it up.

Tilley
06-30-2011, 20:33
The things you have written on this page really make Christianity and Christians look bad. Keep it up.

Look bad to whom? Atheists? Satan? Obama? Can you please be more descriptive, there's a very looong line of people who hate Christians, so of course I'm not sure whom you are referring to...

AlexHassin
06-30-2011, 21:54
. In my humble, yet according to you, ignorant opinion, I smell a whole lotta sulfur in your immediate future.


In my not at all humble opinion, you are wasting your time with religion and gospel spreading. Think of all the better things you could be doing for yourself or others instead of sitting around lending your ear to a preacher and singing about mythology.

muscogee
07-01-2011, 06:24
Look bad to whom? Atheists? Satan? Obama? Can you please be more descriptive, there's a very looong line of people who hate Christians, so of course I'm not sure whom you are referring to...

Read what Paul has to say about pride and get back with me.

ksg0245
07-01-2011, 07:02
I fancy myself a failed scientist...mediocre grades in college, so I became a cop instead.

I believe science leads one to God. Science in NO WAY proves atheism, or leads one away from God. It is a matter of interpretation, and you folks choose to believe your way and Christians believe theirs.

I don't think anyone has ever claimed science proves atheism. It isn't a matter of choosing to believe a particular way, it's a matter of the evidence not indicating anything supernatural.

Personally I believe one chooses atheism because their lifestyle is contrary to what they believe is acceptable to God.

What exactly is involved in this contrary atheist lifestyle, apart from rejecting unsupported assertions of deity?

snowbird
07-01-2011, 11:01
The things you have written on this page really make Christianity and Christians look bad. Keep it up.

Today's left-leaning secular humanists fantasize about their imagined 'open-mindedness', but actually dismiss Christianity, conservatism, etc out-of-hand. Shakespeare was more open-minded. One character of his spoke of death and what happens then, this way, "To sleep, perchance to dream...aye, there's the rub". In other words, death might not be all there is. There might be an after-life, like a dream. And that might not be good news if one hasn't lived this life right.

Japle
07-01-2011, 12:22
Posted by snowbird:
Today's left-leaning secular humanists fantasize about their imagined 'open-mindedness', but actually dismiss Christianity, conservatism, etc out-of-hand.
Seriously, how many “left-leaning” people do you think log onto this website? As far as I can tell, everyone here is a gun owner and strong supported of gun rights. That alone kicks your generalization right in the teeth.

Personally, I’m an Atheist, an NRA Life/Benefactor member, an SAF member, a competitive shooter for over 50 years, a fiscal conservative, a believer in a strict interpretation of the Constitution and a registered Republican who’s never voted for a Democrat.

I also dismiss all religions, not “out of hand”, but because I’ve studied so many of them for so many decades and have come to recognize them for what they are; mythology.

muscogee
07-01-2011, 15:34
Today's left-leaning secular humanists fantasize about their imagined 'open-mindedness', but actually dismiss Christianity, conservatism, etc out-of-hand.
Being open minded allows one to distinguish between fact and fantasy. The fact that I don't believe in magic does not make me a "left-leaning secular humanists" nor does it make me closed minded. Magic might exist. Show me the evidence. Quoting a magic book is not evidence that magic exists.

Shakespeare was more open-minded. One character of his spoke of death and what happens then, this way, "To sleep, perchance to dream...aye, there's the rub". In other words, death might not be all there is. There might be an after-life, like a dream. And that might not be good news if one hasn't lived this life right.

And Muhammad might be the Prophet, but I doubt that too. I'm not going to live my life like I believe he is just in case.

dogchild
07-01-2011, 16:39
I'm sure most of you have experienced first hand the death of a close loved one. Throw away for a moment, your beliefs in science, or your lack of belief in God...

Do you really believe that death is the final act of a human life? All of what comprises of that special person, their joy and laughter, their triumphs and emotions, all the things that are NOT tangible in a physical way...if that is all erased upon the moment of death?

Norske started to express the fact that even as a staunch atheist, even he could tell a physical/spiritual difference and loss to a person at the moment of death.

I have seen it many times. What was once a life becomes a lifeless shell, a doll tossed away, empty. And yet I can still feel the presence of that person at certain times and without explanation.

"For love knows not its own depth, until the hour of separation..." Kahlil Gibran.



Do you really believe it's the end?

I've read a lot of the replies, i think most of them placed in a situation where imminent death was a heartbeat away would start praying to the god they don't believe in.
Our soul,is what separates us from animals

ArtificialGrape
07-01-2011, 17:16
I've read a lot of the replies, i think most of them placed in a situation where imminent death was a heartbeat away would start praying to the god they don't believe in.
Our soul,is what separates us from animals
It's really not true, there are plenty of stories from atheists in foxholes and the like. Once you you have come to accept that there is no God, the thought of praying to Him just feels silly.

30 second exercise: your life (or perhaps that of your closest loved one depends on it), close your eyes and really, really believe that Santa exists. It is imperative that you actually make yourself believe that Santa exists. Were you successful?

Would God extend salvation to somebody that He knew was just hedging a bet, but had not really accepted God/Jesus/Holy Spirit into their heart?

Is there any evidence of a soul? Can it be detected in any way? Or is this just an assertion based on faith?

-ArtificialGrape

Kentak
07-01-2011, 17:32
Personally I believe one chooses atheism because their lifestyle is contrary to what they believe is acceptable to God.

I chose atheism about as much as I chose not to believe that thunder is the hammer blows of Thor. In other words, it's not a matter of *choosing* not to believe in the supernatural as much as it is not having evidence to support the belief in the supernatural.

Your statement also seems to imply the commonly held (but erroneous) belief that if one does not adhere to a *religious* moral or ethical code, they are amoral. While there may certainly be such persons, there is nothing inherent to atheism that precludes one from accepting any number of other philosophical foundations of moral and ethical standards.

dogchild
07-01-2011, 21:29
It's really not true, there are plenty of stories from atheists in foxholes and the like. Once you you have come to accept that there is no God, the thought of praying to Him just feels silly.

30 second exercise: your life (or perhaps that of your closest loved one depends on it), close your eyes and really, really believe that Santa exists. It is imperative that you actually make yourself believe that Santa exists. Were you successful?

Would God extend salvation to somebody that He knew was just hedging a bet, but had not really accepted God/Jesus/Holy Spirit into their heart?

Is there any evidence of a soul? Can it be detected in any way? Or is this just an assertion based on faith?

-ArtificialGrape

I don't intend to argue the point with you, if you want to be an atheist be one.
Jesus walked the earth and performed miracles, and there were still people that didnt believe in him.
The bible says men professing themselves wise became fools.
Have a good life.
:popcorn:

ArtificialGrape
07-01-2011, 21:45
I've read a lot of the replies, i think most of them placed in a situation where imminent death was a heartbeat away would start praying to the god they don't believe in.
Our soul,is what separates us from animals

It's really not true, there are plenty of stories from atheists in foxholes and the like. Once you you have come to accept that there is no God, the thought of praying to Him just feels silly.

30 second exercise: your life (or perhaps that of your closest loved one depends on it), close your eyes and really, really believe that Santa exists. It is imperative that you actually make yourself believe that Santa exists. Were you successful?

Would God extend salvation to somebody that He knew was just hedging a bet, but had not really accepted God/Jesus/Holy Spirit into their heart?

Is there any evidence of a soul? Can it be detected in any way? Or is this just an assertion based on faith?

I don't intend to argue the point with you, if you want to be an atheist be one.
Jesus walked the earth and performed miracles, and there were still people that didnt believe in him.
The bible says men professing themselves wise became fools.

First, you won't find me professing myself as wise, but I work hard to recognize what I don't know and to continue educating myself.

You made 2 assertions: 1) atheists in peril would turn to God; 2) humans have a soul.

I posed 4 questions back to you none of which you were able or willing to answer to support your assertions and core beliefs. Some people prefer to have evidence in support of their core beliefs.

Have a good life.
:popcorn:
Thanks, I have a very good life.
Enjoy your popcorn.

-ArtificialGrape

Jolly_Giant
07-01-2011, 22:11
I've read a lot of the replies, i think most of them placed in a situation where imminent death was a heartbeat away would start praying to the god they don't believe in.
Our soul,is what separates us from animals

I cannot count on my hands the number of times I have come close to death, I never prayed and I never evoked the name of any deity. In fact, all the times I though for sure I was going to die, the only thing I can remember thinking is "Well. . . ******* it." 'cause that was pretty much all the time I had to think.

I believe that you sincerely believe in your religion. I don't think you are faking it. Why can't you afford other people the same courtesy?

Henry's Dad
07-02-2011, 00:06
I'm sure most of you have experienced first hand the death of a close loved one. Throw away for a moment, your beliefs in science, or your lack of belief in God...

Do you really believe that death is the final act of a human life? All of what comprises of that special person, their joy and laughter, their triumphs and emotions, all the things that are NOT tangible in a physical way...if that is all erased upon the moment of death?

Norske started to express the fact that even as a staunch atheist, even he could tell a physical/spiritual difference and loss to a person at the moment of death.

I have seen it many times. What was once a life becomes a lifeless shell, a doll tossed away, empty. And yet I can still feel the presence of that person at certain times and without explanation.

"For love knows not its own depth, until the hour of separation..." Kahlil Gibran.



Do you really believe it's the end?

What if that person is in hell?

Syclone538
07-02-2011, 00:24
I've read a lot of the replies, i think most of them placed in a situation where imminent death was a heartbeat away would start praying to the god they don't believe in.
Our soul,is what separates us from animals

How should we chose from the hundreds of gods that have been claimed to exist?

Vic Hays
07-02-2011, 06:11
How should we chose from the hundreds of gods that have been claimed to exist?

There is only one God who has acurately been able to predict the future from the past. He makes this claim through Isaiah the prophet.
Most people do not want to spend the time for a careful investigation though.

Isaiah 46:9-10 Remember the former things of old, For I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like Me, Declareing the end from the beginning, And from ancient times things that are not yet done, Saying, "My counsel shall stand, And I will do all my pleasure".

Animal Mother
07-02-2011, 08:05
There is only one God who has acurately been able to predict the future from the past. Not true, many gods have made such predictions.
He makes this claim through Isaiah the prophet. And Apollo spoke through the Pythia.

dogchild
07-02-2011, 08:23
How should we chose from the hundreds of gods that have been claimed to exist?

To quote Martin Luther,
A faith that gives nothing,cost nothing, suffers nothing, is worth nothing

steveksux
07-02-2011, 08:32
To quote Martin Luther,
A faith that gives nothing,cost nothing, suffers nothing, is worth nothingAnd that, ladies and gentlemen, is why we're atheists.

Randy

Japle
07-02-2011, 12:09
Randy,

While I agree that religions have produced untold suffering, they don’t “cost nothing”. On the contrary, they cost a lot in time and money and knowledge of the truth.

They give comfort and security to those who need them emotionally, so religion is worth something to them.

Unfortunately, too many people insist that their religion is the right one and there’s only one correct way to worship. We see a lot of that expressed on this forum. Then they insist on passing laws to enforce their opinion or resort to “conversion by the sword”.

AlexHassin
07-02-2011, 12:46
.

I believe that you sincerely believe in your religion. I don't think you are faking it. Why can't you afford other people the same courtesy?

I am actually guessing that he is not, judging by what he has to say. He probably is more afraid of a punishment of biblical proportion then actually belief in a god.
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