AZ Sheriff: Why More Troops at Korean Border Than U.S. Border? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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windplex
06-21-2011, 12:12
AZ Sheriff asks why 28,500 soldiers on the Korean border and 520 guardsmen on the AZ-Mexican border (need 6000)?!

I say darn good question! We are being invaded; so far no invasion of NK to SK.

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/az-sheriff-why-more-troops-korean-border

crimsonaudio
06-21-2011, 12:18
Good question...

muscogee
06-21-2011, 12:39
Because we're at war with N. Korea. We're not at war with Mexico. No rational person would suggest we go to war with Mexico. A rational person would suggest we work out our differences and become closer allies.

DanaT
06-21-2011, 12:39
AZ Sheriff asks why 28,500 soldiers on the Korean border and 520 guardsmen on the AZ-Mexican border (need 6000)?!

I say darn good question! We are being invaded; so far no invasion of NK to SK.

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/az-sheriff-why-more-troops-korean-border

Its a stupid question based upon ignorance.

On July 27, 1953 an armistice was agreed to in the Korean war. An armistice is a temporary stop on hostilities. The Koeran war has never ended; there is just a cease fire. The Korean war is still an active war. We are there to defend an ally that we pledged to defend.

Do you see the answer? We are there because it is an active war that we have pledged to defend a ally.

-Dana

Fox184
06-21-2011, 12:41
The US government doesn't want to secure our border with Mexico, that is why. Just like they won't enforce the current immigration laws.

windplex
06-21-2011, 12:59
Its a stupid question based upon ignorance.

On July 27, 1953 an armistice was agreed to in the Korean war. An armistice is a temporary stop on hostilities. The Koeran war has never ended; there is just a cease fire. The Korean war is still an active war. We are there to defend an ally that we pledged to defend.

Do you see the answer? We are there because it is an active war that we have pledged to defend a ally.

-Dana

our military personnel is there as a trip wire so the nut jobs in n. korea undeerstand American is immediately in the next war should they start one.

The US government doesn't want to secure our border with Mexico, that is why. Just like they won't enforce the current immigration laws.

answer

20 million over the border. mexican government does nothing to stop or prosecute and instead relies on the illegally obtained funds from the illegals it sends back to mexico. now that is an invasion condoned if not supported by the mex gov't.

windplex
06-21-2011, 13:03
Because we're at war with N. Korea. We're not at war with Mexico. No rational person would suggest we go to war with Mexico. A rational person would suggest we work out our differences and become closer allies.

Reagan gave illegals living here amnesty. And yet was not able to "work out our differences" -- was Reagan rational or irrational?

The invasion persists even though the amnesty was meant to end it.

Bush I -- rational or irrational? was not able to "work out our differences"

Clinton -- rational or irrational? was not able to "work out our differences"

Bush II -- rational or irrational? was not able to "work out our differences"

Obama -- rational or irrational? was not able to "work out our differences"

AT LEAST 5 presidents have worked on this problem. Are you suggestion we are the irrational ones?

gwalchmai
06-21-2011, 13:05
Because we're at war with N. Korea. We're not at war with Mexico. No rational person would suggest we go to war with Mexico. A rational person would suggest we work out our differences and become closer allies.We're not at war with N. Korea.

DanaT
06-21-2011, 13:38
20 million over the border. mexican government does nothing to stop or prosecute and instead relies on the illegally obtained funds from the illegals it sends back to mexico. now that is an invasion condoned if not supported by the mex gov't.

So do you now support governments restricting the rights of people to leave the country? Would you support this if the US government restricted people from leaving? As a point of reference, when you leave the USA, no-one from the government checks. You go through no passport check to leave other than the airline ticket agent. Do you support having to get CBP approval to leave the USA?

-Dana

BamaTrooper
06-21-2011, 13:41
So do you now support governments restricting the rights of people to leave the country? Would you support this if the US government restricted people from leaving? As a point of reference, when you leave the USA, no-one from the government checks. You go through no passport check to leave other than the airline ticket agent. Do you support having to get CBP approval to leave the USA?

-Dana

Do you get checked coming back in?

Bilbo Bagins
06-21-2011, 13:45
Because we're at war with N. Korea. We're not at war with Mexico. No rational person would suggest we go to war with Mexico. A rational person would suggest we work out our differences and become closer allies.

While I don't have the exact figures, I'm thinking within the last 5 years US border agents and US citizen have been shot at, killed, and kidnapped much more often, along the Mexican border, then US soldiers and S. Korean civilians have along the Korean border. :dunno:

Gallium
06-21-2011, 14:03
So do you now support governments restricting the rights of people to leave the country? Would you support this if the US government restricted people from leaving? As a point of reference, when you leave the USA, no-one from the government checks. You go through no passport check to leave other than the airline ticket agent. Do you support having to get CBP approval to leave the USA?

-Dana


I take it you don't travel often. Every single time I get on an INTERNATIONAL flight, my passport is checked. Any of my associates that have a visa - the validity and expiration date of their visa is checked also.

'Drew

DanaT
06-21-2011, 14:03
Do you get checked coming back in?

Yes. There is a passport check coming back. This means restrictions on coming into USA.

There are no checks or restrictions to leaving (unless one if carrying over $10k in cash or equivalency and then legally it must be declared to CBP but that said, I have never been checked how much money I have..I also do not carry $10k in cash)

-Dana

fnfalman
06-21-2011, 14:06
Why more troops at the 38th Parallel?

Let's see...NK invades South Korea and American interests suffer. It's that simple.

I didn't bother to read the link but is it Sheriff Hollywood Joe again?

guns54
06-21-2011, 14:24
Because we're at war with N. Korea. We're not at war with Mexico. No rational person would suggest we go to war with Mexico. A rational person would suggest we work out our differences and become closer allies.What world are you living in. Not be smart about it,But Where do you think all the drugs are coming from?

fnfalman
06-21-2011, 14:30
Where do you think all the drugs are coming from?

Pakistan? Afghanistan? Burma? California? The CIA?

muscogee
06-21-2011, 14:31
We're not at war with N. Korea.

When did we sign a peace treaty?

the iceman
06-21-2011, 14:32
When did we sign a peace treaty?

When was WAR declared on North Korea?

fnfalman
06-21-2011, 14:34
When was WAR declared on North Korea?

Muscogee, he got you there. It was a "police action". As was the "Vietnam thang".

Desert Storm was a true war as in it was a declared war. Did we even declare war with all the Afghanistan and Iraq stuff?:dunno:

muscogee
06-21-2011, 14:35
The invasion persists even though the amnesty was meant to end it.


There is no military invasion. Therefore, military intervention is unwarranted.

DanaT
06-21-2011, 14:41
When was WAR declared on North Korea?

NK crossed the 38th parrallel on 25 Jun 1950 when they attacked ROK. A formal declaration is not always required. Are you suggesting that if we are bombed and there is no formal declaration of war, we aren't at war?

Just be clear, was the USA at war with Japan on the morning of December 7th, 1941 when they bombed Pearl Harbor or not? Are these soldiers/sailors veterans of WWII or not?

-Dana

muscogee
06-21-2011, 14:44
What world are you living in. Not be smart about it,But Where do you think all the drugs are coming from?

I live much closer to the boarder than you do and have traveled to Mexico several times. Who do you think is buying all those drugs? Believe it or not, a lot of drugs are grown and made in the U.S.

We are not at war simply because you want to believe we are.

DanaT
06-21-2011, 14:44
Desert Storm was a true war as in it was a declared war.

This is news to me.

I thgought the last country the USA formally declared war on was romania in 1942....

-Dana

Toorop
06-21-2011, 14:52
The US government doesn't want to secure our border with Mexico, that is why. Just like they won't enforce the current immigration laws.

Exactly. Corporate America depends on cheap labor too much. And the citizens of the USA are too fat and lazy to do the work for the pay offered and they want things like higher wages and benefits. Nobody wants to work for $5.00 an hour in the hot sun.

Here is a good video with a celebrity talking about the need for immigration reform before the Congress...

Link to video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xy25NFH69gk&feature=fvwrel)

the iceman
06-21-2011, 14:54
Muscogee, he got you there. It was a "police action". As was the "Vietnam thang".

Desert Storm was a true war as in it was a declared war. Did we even declare war with all the Afghanistan and Iraq stuff?:dunno:

Well actually the last formally declared war by the US Congress was WWII.

Desert Storm was military engagement authorized by the UN and funded by Congress as was Korea.

Korea, Vietnam, Desert Storm, GWOT weren't declared wars but we all know they really were just as much wars as any other engagement in our country's history.

Just playin the word game. :whistling:

muscogee
06-21-2011, 14:54
Muscogee, he got you there. It was a "police action". As was the "Vietnam thang".

Desert Storm was a true war as in it was a declared war. Did we even declare war with all the Afghanistan and Iraq stuff?:dunno:

Good point. My mistake. We never signed anything but a cease fire with N. Korea, so whatever rational we had for committing troops still exists.

I see no rational for sending the military to attack Mexicans. We don't need any more unnecessary wars. We especially don't need a war with an friendly nation on our boarder. Would we rather the Mexican government fight the drug cartels or the U.S. military?

CU4X4N
06-21-2011, 15:06
...I see no rational for sending the military to attack Mexicans. We don't need any more unnecessary wars. We especially don't need a war with an friendly nation on our boarder...


Who is suggesting we attack Mexico?!?! :dunno:


The AZ sheriff would just like to see more personnel guarding the border.

(For those of you that DNRTFA, it's not Sheriff Joe.)

guns54
06-21-2011, 15:09
I live much closer to the boarder than you do and have traveled to Mexico several times. Who do you think is buying all those drugs? Believe it or not, a lot of drugs are grown and made in the U.S.

We are not at war simply because you want to believe we are.Yes they are,But nothing like whats coming from Mexico,And have been to Mexico mybe around 30 times, I have fished all over Mexico. Iam not new to Mexico.P.S. For got to say,Are own are going in to get there drugs to, To me it looks like a know win. know matter how you look at it. Have a nice night. And stay safe.

gwalchmai
06-21-2011, 15:16
When did we sign a peace treaty?

None needed. We never declared war on them. Perhaps you're thinking of the United Nations.

ETA: Looks like others have already pointed out the truth. Now, I don't know about you, but I don't see any reason for the US to be committing troops to maintain the UN's ceasefire in Korea. It's a big UN, and I feel like we've done our share.

DanaT
06-21-2011, 15:17
I take it you don't travel often. Every single time I get on an INTERNATIONAL flight, my passport is checked. Any of my associates that have a visa - the validity and expiration date of their visa is checked also.

'Drew

Not very often. I have only made 8 international flights this year. In fact, I travel so infrequently that I have paid for Global Entry.

Every time I have left the USA, my passport has been looked at by the AIRLINES. I have NEVER had a CBP agent check my passport when leaving the USA. If you can show me a departure stamp from the USA in your passport, I would be impressed. I have departure stamps from many countries, but absolutely zero from the USA.

-Dana

gwalchmai
06-21-2011, 15:25
Korea, Vietnam, Desert Storm, GWOT weren't declared wars but we all know they really were just as much wars as any other engagement in our country's history.

Just playin the word game. :whistling:Not really. Notice how declared wars have a mandate, which requires commitment from the people. And see how fast declared wars (WWI and WWII for example) tend to get over with, unlike these other things, which go on indefinitely. I say we get out of all the undeclared wars and adopt a policy of if it's not worth declaring war over it's not worth going to war over.

HKLovingIT
06-21-2011, 15:32
Nevermind

guns54
06-21-2011, 15:35
Who is suggesting we attack Mexico?!?! :dunno:


The AZ sheriff would just like to see more personnel guarding the border.

(For those of you that DNRTFA, it's not Sheriff Joe.)Yes you are very right.

crimsonaudio
06-21-2011, 15:41
Who is suggesting we attack Mexico?!?! :dunno:


The AZ sheriff would just like to see more personnel guarding the border.
Good point.

(For those of you that DNRTFA, it's not Sheriff Joe.)
Best acronym ever.

muscogee
06-21-2011, 15:49
None needed. We never declared war on them. Perhaps you're thinking of the United Nations.

ETA: Looks like others have already pointed out the truth. Now, I don't know about you, but I don't see any reason for the US to be committing troops to maintain the UN's ceasefire in Korea. It's a big UN, and I feel like we've done our share.

I agree. Bring the troops home.

muscogee
06-21-2011, 15:50
Yes they are,But nothing like whats coming from Mexico,And have been to Mexico mybe around 30 times, I have fished all over Mexico. Iam not new to Mexico.P.S. For got to say,Are own are going in to get there drugs to, To me it looks a know win. know matter how you look at it. Have a nice night. And stay safe.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here.

MAGlock
06-21-2011, 15:51
Because we're at war with N. Korea. We're not at war with Mexico. No rational person would suggest we go to war with Mexico. A rational person would suggest we work out our differences and become closer allies.


No we're not! The DMZ was created at the end of the Korean War to keep the North and South separated.

okie
06-21-2011, 15:56
The US government doesn't want to secure our border with Mexico, that is why. Just like they won't enforce the current immigration laws.

More votes for the Dems that way:supergrin:

Atlas
06-21-2011, 15:59
Not really. Notice how declared wars have a mandate, which requires commitment from the people. And see how fast declared wars (WWI and WWII for example) tend to get over with, unlike these other things, which go on indefinitely. I say we get out of all the undeclared wars and adopt a policy of if it's not worth declaring war over it's not worth going to war over.


Nothing else need be said.

N4LP
06-21-2011, 16:13
None needed. We never declared war on them. Perhaps you're thinking of the United Nations.

ETA: Looks like others have already pointed out the truth. Now, I don't know about you, but I don't see any reason for the US to be committing troops to maintain the UN's ceasefire in Korea. It's a big UN, and I feel like we've done our share.

Agree with this. S. Korea may need our help should a war with N. Korea breakout, but they don't need us guarding their border - they're big boys now, they can take care of that themselves.

There's probably some strategic advantage to us maintaining troops in N. Korea though. I don't know how many we need there, but would hope we'd pare it down to as few as necessary.

windplex
06-21-2011, 17:16
... Are you suggesting that if we are bombed and there is no formal declaration of war, we aren't at war?

...

-Dana

According to our current president without boots on the ground there is no war. So bombing a country does not constitute war. to put it politely it is a reach. war is war, imho.

windplex
06-21-2011, 17:25
...

I see no rational for sending the military to attack Mexicans. We don't need any more unnecessary wars. We especially don't need a war with an friendly nation on our boarder. Would we rather the Mexican government fight the drug cartels or the U.S. military?

without a sovereign border there is no nation. once again there is a war of sort being waged against the USA and we turn a blind eye. just because we do not officially recognize it does not make it go away. a lesson we should have learned from islamists.

the mexican people and its government support the invasion by millions of mexicans of the USA.

you may not like the definition but there is definitely a problem that starts with millions of people from a neighboring nation that illegally come into our nation and their government that will not support us in our efforts to stop it so this government condones this invasion. and for good reason it is worth billions in hard currency to them and with each mexican that leaves it reduces the Mexican governments financial liability. Some claim mexico is a good ally -- franbklyh their behavior does not support this.

this problem requires a solution. violence is involved. Americans are being harmed. our sovereign is no longer intact. it is an invasion supported by the mexican government.

if not a military action how about deputize all Americans living on the border to shot on sight without any risk of prosecution?

windplex
06-21-2011, 17:29
...
There's probably some strategic advantage to us maintaining troops in N. Korea though. I don't know how many we need there, but would hope we'd pare it down to as few as necessary.

trip wire

Gallium
06-21-2011, 17:44
Not very often. I have only made 8 international flights this year. In fact, I travel so infrequently that I have paid for Global Entry.

Every time I have left the USA, my passport has been looked at by the AIRLINES. I have NEVER had a CBP agent check my passport when leaving the USA. If you can show me a departure stamp from the USA in your passport, I would be impressed. I have departure stamps from many countries, but absolutely zero from the USA.

-Dana


Yes. And when the AIRLINES find a discrepancy with your passport or visa, what exactly do you think happens next? When you're flying on an AIRLINE and they see suspicious behavior, do they call headquarters, or do the call law enforcement?

A departure stamp is not the end all for passport control.

In years past many folks who overstayed their visas would simply waltz out of the country. After 9/11 the law and directives were changed, mandating that AIRLINES check that folks have not overstayed their visas, that their passports have not expired, and since 2008 AIRLINES (and ships) are required to ensure that all boarding passengers have certain documents to allow them re-entry into the United States. So while Bermuda, Bahamas or the Cayman Islands might be cool with you getting in with only a driver license (example only), you would not be allowed to LEAVE the United States with only those documents.

But you knew this right, international traveler and all... :)


'Drew

windplex
06-21-2011, 17:50
somewhat related, kinda

when we sell a car we are required to check the watch list to make sure we are not selling to a terrorist

Gallium
06-21-2011, 18:01
somewhat related, kinda

when we sell a car we are required to check the watch list to make sure we are not selling to a terrorist


Yeah. Try buying a house. :faint:Or buying a one - way ticket at any airline counter for travel on that same day. Or renting a big truck one way with cash.

The truth is, lots of other countries put more efforts in SECURING their borders, and lots of other countries have more restrictions and regulations as to who can, and how they can visit, and migrate. Mexico would be one of those clear examples. :)

It's OUR border. If anyone thinks "al quaeda" is not seeking ingress thru that porous border, screw me, the joke is on me. When I last checked, al quaeda is more of a national security risk than North Korea is.


'Drew

'Drew

dogchild
06-21-2011, 18:05
So do you now support governments restricting the rights of people to leave the country? Would you support this if the US government restricted people from leaving? As a point of reference, when you leave the USA, no-one from the government checks. You go through no passport check to leave other than the airline ticket agent. Do you support having to get CBP approval to leave the USA?

-Dana

When is the last time you left the country?

You show your passport to ticket agent, again when you pass through security again when you board the plane.
You show your passport when you enter your destination country, and again when you return home to your country of origin.

Once your in a secure area of the airport you are under goverment
control,

The reason to keep troops on the border is because the people coming over are not on a plane and they dont have a passport, there illegal !!

The Federal goverment requires the states to pay for there medical, there education, and there welfare, but the goverment doesn't reimburse the states for any of these cost !

Do you want to help pay for them ? or you just want us to send them to your state and you can pay for these services.:popcorn:

AnimalK
06-21-2011, 19:09
Because North Korea, unlike MEH-hee-koh, doesn't want its citizens to leave it...

DanaT
06-21-2011, 19:22
Yes. And when the AIRLINES find a discrepancy with your passport or visa, what exactly do you think happens next? When you're flying on an AIRLINE and they see suspicious behavior, do they call headquarters, or do the call law enforcement?

Neither. They let me board the plane.

And yes almost every time I have a discrepancy. My discrepancy is that I am a US citizen that buys tickets from Europe and back. The issue is the other countries and not the USA. The airlines look to ensure that to European countries there is a return ticket within 90 days as the visa waiver program only allows 90 day stay. So when there is no return ticket to USA that is one of the discrepancies. Police have NEVER been called. I have never been denied boarding. What happens? The airline ticket agent overides the computer and says everything is OK.

The only hassle I ever seem to get is sometimes the security people (and this is not in the USA) do not like me on the passenger manifest without playing 50 questions when I purchase a ticket 12 to 24 hours before a flight.

The airline manifests are done for every flight. Not just international. Its the secure flight program. You have to submit data 48 hours before flight.

-Dana

VADuckHunter
06-21-2011, 19:22
We're not at war with N. Korea.

Someone prolly has beat me to this, but yes we are. It is the longest standing cease fire in world history.

Within all out lifetimes the US will have to invade Mexico with spec ops to assassinate these cartel dirtbags. In no time at all they will kill someone important and the American liberals (the ones who have been sheltering illegals here for 40 years) will start to care. How many of our people (citizens) are killed by illegal trash from Mexico every year? Never seen that statistic, but i bet it is quite high. If the US was not being destroyed by political correctness we would just start shooting them as they come. Maybe then they will choose to develop their third world cesspool instead of coming here.

I know a lot of you feel different about this, but i am tired of seeing their dumps for houses with 30 ppl living in a townhouse. I am tired of hearing about the $$ needed to teach them and their kids engligh, and i am tired of hearing about all the crime they bring. Tired of hearing about "how we are an immigration of immigrants, and they belong here". Mexico is whats left of the giant dump Spain took on South America, and a product of stupid people running their country for so long. Mexico and South America in general really have no excuse for not developing their own countries, as they are rich in natural resources and clearly rich in cheap labor. I could go a lot deeper into the academic reasons for my opinions if anyone likes, but i think this pretty much sums it up.

DanaT
06-21-2011, 19:41
When is the last time you left the country?

You show your passport to ticket agent, again when you pass through security again when you board the plane.
You show your passport when you enter your destination country, and again when you return home to your country of origin.

Once your in a secure area of the airport you are under goverment
control,

The reason to keep troops on the border is because the people coming over are not on a plane and they dont have a passport, there illegal !!

The Federal goverment requires the states to pay for there medical, there education, and there welfare, but the goverment doesn't reimburse the states for any of these cost !

Do you want to help pay for them ? or you just want us to send them to your state and you can pay for these services.:popcorn:

When is the last time. June 7.

Since there seems to be some issues with my "story" here is an example trip


Oh yes, you can see that somehow I was coming into the country on May 28th. I arrived in Europe on the 8th of June and left Europe on the 16th of June.

Here was my passport checks. At the beginning of the UA flight, UA looked at passport. Landed in CH and CH passport control checked passport and stamped it.

Left CH for London. CH passport control checked passport control and stamped. Passport was not checked getting onto plane or through security. Only passport control checked passport. Landed in London Heathrow. No passport check. Went through security in fast pass lane. The person checked ticket to allow access to fast pass. No passport was ever shown in London. Got on plane in London. Airline looked at passport and ticket at boarding. Landed in USA. Passport was checked by US and stamped.

-Dana

Gallium
06-21-2011, 19:43
So do you now support governments restricting the rights of people to leave the country? Would you support this if the US government restricted people from leaving? As a point of reference, when you leave the USA, no-one from the government checks. You go through no passport check to leave other than the airline ticket agent. Do you support having to get CBP approval to leave the USA?

-Dana

Neither. They let me board the plane.

And yes almost every time I have a discrepancy. My discrepancy is that I am a US citizen that buys tickets from Europe and back. The issue is the other countries and not the USA. The airlines look to ensure that to European countries there is a return ticket within 90 days as the visa waiver program only allows 90 day stay. So when there is no return ticket to USA that is one of the discrepancies. Police have NEVER been called. I have never been denied boarding. What happens? The airline ticket agent overides the computer and says everything is OK.

The only hassle I ever seem to get is sometimes the security people (and this is not in the USA) do not like me on the passenger manifest without playing 50 questions when I purchase a ticket 12 to 24 hours before a flight.

The airline manifests are done for every flight. Not just international. Its the secure flight program. You have to submit data 48 hours before flight.

-Dana


So we avoid any confusion, I was never talking about passport checks on foreign soil. We were talking about checking travel documents leaving the USA. From what you have posted it appears you are talking about flights originating in Europe, with round trip tickets.
'Drew

VADuckHunter
06-21-2011, 19:49
Don't put that kind of stuff on the internet... Photos of your passport with those numbers on it can only be a bad thing...

crimsonaudio
06-21-2011, 19:53
Someone prolly has beat me to this, but yes we are. It is the longest standing cease fire in world history.
It's been explained above, and it's a technicality, but no, we never declared war on North Korea.

skeeter1959
06-21-2011, 19:59
Being that our govt is just as crooked as the mexican govt, nothing will be done to secure our border with mexico. The demonrats want the mexicans as future demos and the repubs want cheapo labor.

Anybody with a brain can see that mexico is a parasite to the USA. Special interest groups, two corupt govts, and lack of courage will be our downfall.

DanaT
06-21-2011, 20:04
Don't put that kind of stuff on the internet... Photos of your passport with those numbers on it can only be a bad thing...

There are no numbers that you can use to identify...but point taken.

-Dana

DanaT
06-21-2011, 20:10
So we avoid any confusion, I was never talking about passport checks on foreign soil. We were talking about checking travel documents leaving the USA. From what you have posted it appears you are talking about flights originating in Europe, with round trip tickets.
'Drew

I am talking about my passport being checked by govt when I leave the USA. As I said, and you can see from the entry stamps, the govt only checks when I enter.

I am a US citizen that resides in the USA. Yes, I buy my tickets originating from Europe to the USA and then back to Europe. However, when I am in the airports leaving from the USA the only person that ever sees my passport is the airline ticket attendant. I always have a discrepancy because I have no return ticket and the 90 days on the visa waiver. I have never had the airlines in the USA call any LEO, CBP, TSA, JBT etc due to a discrepancy (and buying tickets originating in Europe there is always a discrepancy). I only buy one set of tickets per year that originate in the USA (and that is an issue because it is over the 90 day visa waiver stay limit).

-Dana

gwalchmai
06-21-2011, 20:12
Someone prolly has beat me to this, but yes we are. It is the longest standing cease fire in world history. No, congress never declared war on N. Korea. The UN intervened and we supplied the lion's share of the troops. The ceasefire is the UN's. I explained the importance of this above.

Within all out lifetimes the US will have to invade Mexico with spec ops to assassinate these cartel dirtbags. In no time at all they will kill someone important and the American liberals (the ones who have been sheltering illegals here for 40 years) will start to care. How many of our people (citizens) are killed by illegal trash from Mexico every year? Never seen that statistic, but i bet it is quite high. If the US was not being destroyed by political correctness we would just start shooting them as they come. Maybe then they will choose to develop their third world cesspool instead of coming here.

I know a lot of you feel different about this, but i am tired of seeing their dumps for houses with 30 ppl living in a townhouse. I am tired of hearing about the $$ needed to teach them and their kids engligh, and i am tired of hearing about all the crime they bring. Tired of hearing about "how we are an immigration of immigrants, and they belong here". Mexico is whats left of the giant dump Spain took on South America, and a product of stupid people running their country for so long. Mexico and South America in general really have no excuse for not developing their own countries, as they are rich in natural resources and clearly rich in cheap labor. I could go a lot deeper into the academic reasons for my opinions if anyone likes, but i think this pretty much sums it up.Can't argue with you there.

Z71bill
06-21-2011, 20:27
Obama claims the action in Libya is not even at the level of HOSTILITIES -

Hard to say N Korea is a war - if you compare the two.

I guess it depends on your perspective -

If you have a Nobel Peace Prize you can drop a few bombs and consider it to be no big deal :upeyes:

MadMonkey
06-21-2011, 20:45
Gotta let in the liberal voters.

tsmo1066
06-21-2011, 20:48
None needed. We never declared war on them. Perhaps you're thinking of the United Nations.

ETA: Looks like others have already pointed out the truth. Now, I don't know about you, but I don't see any reason for the US to be committing troops to maintain the UN's ceasefire in Korea. It's a big UN, and I feel like we've done our share.

Not to belabor a point, but the USSC has ruled in the past that a Congressional authorization to fund and commit troops to combat is, constitutionally speaking, the equivalent of a declaration of war. By authorizing and funding a "police action" in Korea, Congress did, in fact, make what amounts to a declaration of war - at least in terms of invoking full Presidential and federal powers.

Gallium
06-21-2011, 20:50
I am talking about my passport being checked by govt when I leave the USA. As I said, and you can see from the entry stamps, the govt only checks when I enter.

I am a US citizen that resides in the USA. Yes, I buy my tickets originating from Europe to the USA and then back to Europe. However, when I am in the airports leaving from the USA the only person that ever sees my passport is the airline ticket attendant. I always have a discrepancy because I have no return ticket and the 90 days on the visa waiver. I have never had the airlines in the USA call any LEO, CBP, TSA, JBT etc due to a discrepancy (and buying tickets originating in Europe there is always a discrepancy). I only buy one set of tickets per year that originate in the USA (and that is an issue because it is over the 90 day visa waiver stay limit).

-Dana


One of us is talking about the space shuttle program, and the other is talking about nuclear powered submarines. :)

I have consistently been talking about what actions the USA takes to verify folks leaving it's borders have the required re-entry documents for return into the USA, or simply, when they leave, that their stay in the United States was valid (ie, visa not expired).

You are (now) talking about requirements that other sovereign states have to allow entry into their spaces.

This thread is about troops at the Korean border/Mexican border.
You said:


So do you now support governments restricting the rights of people to leave the country? Would you support this if the US government restricted people from leaving? As a point of reference, when you leave the USA, no-one from the government checks. You go through no passport check to leave other than the airline ticket agent. Do you support having to get CBP approval to leave the USA?

-Dana


And I underscored that the gov does actually check - they bundled it into a requirement that the AIRLINES are legally bound to comply with.

Your travels to Europe, and the gyrations you have to go thru have no bearing on the actions that airlines, (and by silent proxy, .gov) take to verify folks' status when they leave the United States. I deal with it ALL THE TIME as a tour manager that represents groups from other countries.


'Drew

G17Jake
06-21-2011, 20:53
Because we're at war with N. Korea. We're not at war with Mexico. No rational person would suggest we go to war with Mexico. A rational person would suggest we work out our differences and become closer allies.

We should be at war with Mexico since they are invading our country.

DanaT
06-21-2011, 21:18
And I underscored that the gov does actually check - they bundled it into a requirement that the AIRLINES are legally bound to comply with.

Your travels to Europe, and the gyrations you have to go thru have no bearing on the actions that airlines, (and by silent proxy, .gov) take to verify folks' status when they leave the United States. I deal with it ALL THE TIME as a tour manager that represents groups from other countries.


'Drew

You are confusing things. The airlines check US citizens passports to ensure that the passengers have the proper authorization (or are on the visa waiver) for the country they are travelling to. If the airline dump tons of people who aren't allowed due to no passports, etc, the foriegn countries may not allow them to continue to operate. That said, the airline checking your passport does not mean you are allowed into the foriegn country, it only means that you have documenation that at a quick glance looks ok.

There is no check on US citizens if they leave the USA, only when they return. That is why I said what I did. The mexican govt is not checking when mexicans leave mexico. They don't really care so much. The USA doesn't really care if you leave the USA. They care if you return to the USA.

What you are talking about is foriegn nationals in the USA on either a visa or visa waiver. The US govt does want to know that they have left. The US govt isn't really concerned where they are going; they are simply concerned that they leave.

There are different rules for US citizens and foriegn citizens entering and leaving the USA.

So my question still stands, do you (generic term of you) think that the USA should check people and documentation to leave the country? If the US government doesn't have a responsibility to check its citizens leaving the country; why does mexico have a responsibility to check their citizens?

I understant why Americans want the mexican govt to do something. That is not my question. My question is the logical argument why we should expect mexico to do something that the USA does not do?

Logical arguments should be able to be made that are consistently logical.

-Dana

american lockpicker
06-21-2011, 22:36
We should pull all our troops from Korea. **** South Korea

ancient_serpent
06-21-2011, 23:10
I think we need to complete the border fence and man it appropriately. Obviously, it's not working now. What I don't know, is the legalities of using the states National Guard troops for that purpose.

VADuckHunter
06-21-2011, 23:56
There are no numbers that you can use to identify...but point taken.

-Dana

Kk good deal... Just would hate to see you screwed over trying to disprove someone on GT Lol.

Toorop
06-22-2011, 01:55
We should pull all our troops from Korea. **** South Korea
And while we are at it, cut all funding to Israel!

dogchild
06-22-2011, 06:25
I think we need to complete the border fence and man it appropriately. Obviously, it's not working now. What I don't know, is the legalities of using the states National Guard troops for that purpose.

Our border with Mexico is the Rio Grande are we going to give it to Mexico when we build this fence?:popcorn:

ancient_serpent
06-22-2011, 06:49
Nah, anyone that knows how to plan a defense knows you need clear ground in front of your preparations. OCOKA and all that.

fnfalman
06-22-2011, 07:15
For those of you that DNRTFA, it's not Sheriff Joe.

Sowwweeeee.

That's what happen when you Arizonians have a self-aggrandizing sheriff who is an attention whore. People stop talking Arizona sheriffs seriously. Something about crying wolf.

windplex
06-22-2011, 08:31
For all those who are cool with the current invasion by Mexico and don't believe it should be a military action. Please comment on this.

What if 20 million Americans emigrated illegally to Mexico; assumed fake identities to take advantage of mexican social programs; worked there and sent billions of dollars back to the USA -- bled the wealth of mexico to the USA.

How would Mexico take this? Would they say:
1) that's cool with us we will work it out as reasonable ally nations over the next 40 years or longer and not take military actions to protect the biorder.
or
2) what the hell do you think you are doing illegally coming into our nation in the millions; this is an invasion and we do not believe the government is "not" behind this.

What if 20 million americans illgally migrated into China? What would be China's reaction be?

What if 20 million americans illgally migrated into Russia? What would be Russia's reaction be?

What if 20 million americans illgally migrated into Canada? What would be Canada's reaction be?

What if 20 million americans illgally migrated into N. Korea? What would be N. Korea's reaction be?

What if 20 million americans illgally migrated into Pakistan? What would be N. Pakistan's reaction be?

View it from another country's point of view and it becomes clear, IMHO.

american lockpicker
06-22-2011, 12:40
And while we are at it, cut all funding to Israel!

Why would we do that? Israel is one of the few worthwhile countrys we support.

AZ Jeff
06-22-2011, 14:49
Something about crying wolf.

Don't be ignorant. YOu know danged well that even if you ignore Sheriff J. Arpaio of Maricopa County, that P. Babeau of Pima County and the sheriff in the article from a county ACTUALLY ON THE BORDER have a legitimate complaint about the inability of Border Patrol to hold back the flood.

guns54
06-22-2011, 14:57
I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. When were told to stay out of mexico, Its not safe,Its been all over the news. Were have you been. DONE. Have a nice night.

muscogee
06-22-2011, 19:13
Mexico is a complex problem. There are a lot of simplistic answers but no simple answers. We need Mexico as much as Mexico needs us.

windplex
06-23-2011, 08:21
Mexico is a complex problem. There are a lot of simplistic answers but no simple answers. We need Mexico as much as Mexico needs us.

I disagree. Mexico needs USA MUCH more than we need them.

Sure you will bring up Mexican oil and I will bring up that we have plenty of our own if it were not for the idiots like the current POTUS that stop us from drilling our own vast reserves to offset Mexican oil and other oil requirements.

Mexico is now hooked on our hard currency sent home by their illegal and criminal citizens living here.

So let's see how much of a ally Mexico is when we send 20 million Americans to mexico. I say allow all Americans to take land there; extend our border into Mexico as far as 20 million americans can take it. This would drive home the point that we don't like the current situation. And we will continue to take land until Mexico takes action. And notify mexicvo that the land we take we keep but are willing to stop advancing when mexico is willing to stop its invasion.

I wager the draconian mexican government, when faced with "skin" in the illegal alien game, would "suddenly" find ways to dissuade its law breaking populace from trying to cross.

I know we'll call it homesteading. Now available Free American land for the taking;) No military involved just our able citizens.

muscogee
06-23-2011, 08:51
Mexico is now hooked on our hard currency sent home by their illegal and criminal citizens living here.


And we are hooked on cheap labor with no benefits. If we send the illegals home, who would milk the diary cattle? Would you work 24/7 for minimum wage and no benefits? Are you wiling to pay $10 a gallon for milk if you can find it? Are you advocating similar increases and shortages in all food produced in the U.S.? Are you willing to see U.S. agriculture move to Mexico and have us become dependent on imported food? If you like being dependent on imported oil, you'll love being dependent on imported food. What's better, imported labor or imported food?

gwalchmai
06-23-2011, 08:54
Do meskins milk cows? I thought such stuff was all automated nowadays.

windplex
06-23-2011, 09:38
And we are hooked on cheap labor with no benefits. If we send the illegals home, who would milk the diary cattle? Would you work 24/7 for minimum wage and no benefits? Are you wiling to pay $10 a gallon for milk if you can find it? Are you advocating similar increases and shortages in all food produced in the U.S.? Are you willing to see U.S. agriculture move to Mexico and have us become dependent on imported food? If you like being dependent on imported oil, you'll love being dependent on imported food. What's better, imported labor or imported food?

your logic is convoluted.

YES to enforcing our laws. YES i accept higher prices as a result.

muscogee
06-23-2011, 13:48
Do meskins milk cows? I thought such stuff was all automated nowadays.

You have to put out food, get the cattle in the stalls, wash their teats, start the machine, and put the suction tubes on their teats. When you're through milking, you have to let them out and clean up. Cleaning consists of shoveling out the feces and uneaten food, hosing down the urine, cleaning the milking machine, and then disinfecting everything. There are probably more steps. This is just what I remember from when my uncles had dairies and what my cousins did.

muscogee
06-23-2011, 13:53
your logic is convoluted.

YES to enforcing our laws. YES i accept higher prices as a result.

And when food producers leave the U.S. and go to Mexico or somewhere else, are you willing to accept dependence on imported food? As I said, if you like being dependent on imported oil, you will love being dependent on imported food.

Do you say yes to changing the laws to make them more realistic?

windplex
06-23-2011, 14:50
And when food producers leave the U.S. and go to Mexico or somewhere else, are you willing to accept dependence on imported food? As I said, if you like being dependent on imported oil, you will love being dependent on imported food.

Do you say yes to changing the laws to make them more realistic?

You make a whole bunch of straw men.

We are the bread basket of the world. Much of what we do is mechanized with low labor content. going no where.

i suggest that if labor rates go through the roof we would get pretty darn creative and find ways to automate other things now done by hand. and there would be much more money available to invest in such efforts when labor goes up dramatically.

if we enforce our laws the sky will not fall. it would solve quite a few problems and save American and mexican lives.

gwalchmai
06-23-2011, 15:01
You have to put out food, get the cattle in the stalls, wash their teats, start the machine, and put the suction tubes on their teats. When you're through milking, you have to let them out and clean up. Cleaning consists of shoveling out the feces and uneaten food, hosing down the urine, cleaning the milking machine, and then disinfecting everything. There are probably more steps. This is just what I remember from when my uncles had dairies and what my cousins did.And you're saying that only illegals perform those functions now?

muscogee
06-23-2011, 19:30
And you're saying that only illegals perform those functions now?

I haven't checked their green cards, but the ones I have seen look Hispanic. We don't allow enough people into the country to do these jobs. That's why they come here illegaly. Then the employers pay them contract labor and take it off their taxes on a 1099. The illegals go back to Mexico and no one pays taxes. Good for the economy, right?

Let them come here legally and make their employers withhold income tax just like they do on the rest of us. Let them pay the entire cost to the illegals being here (e.g., health care, legal issue, the cost of their children going to our schools, etc.) instead of dumping the cost of those services on the rest of us. Then we'll see how cheap they really are.

There are substantially more problems with Mexico than just this. We are the cause of their drug cartels. The cartels are tearing the country apart. If we legalize drugs, the cartels power will be substantially reduced and possibly eliminated. Then, maybe, the Mexico can address it's poverty problem.

Walls and troops on the boarder will not address either of these issues. However, it will be good for the Texas economy so bring it on if you like. It will be one more thing Perry can take credit for.

Brucev
07-08-2011, 06:20
Deleted.