Rock River or Smith&Wesson [Archive] - Glock Talk

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1time
06-21-2011, 14:44
A friend is looking for a patrol rifle and these are the only approved rifles. Which is the better rifle at this point.

Captains1911
06-21-2011, 14:53
S&W, no contest

ETA: Not the M&P Sport

SigFTW
06-21-2011, 15:09
S&W, no contest

ETA: Not the M&P Sport

Do you own a RRA? just curious.

zhix
06-21-2011, 15:18
I vote S&W M&P, but based mainly on specs; I have experience shooting someone else's M&P and my only experience with RRA is using one of their lowers for a build.

mjkeat
06-21-2011, 15:46
Theres a great thread on M4C covering the S&W and getting it up to speed.

Johnspark
06-21-2011, 18:11
I have the S&W M&P15 and love it. I am going to build my next AR and RR is on the list of possible candidates. I'd like to hear more about RR from some with experience also.

Burns
06-21-2011, 18:19
1. S&W
2. Go over to m4carbine.net and ask the same question.

Captains1911
06-21-2011, 18:19
Do you own a RRA? just curious.

I owned 2 in the past

boomhower
06-21-2011, 18:40
S&W. If he can find a last generation M&P15T for a good price they offer a lot of value with the Troy components.

iLift45's
06-21-2011, 18:42
Love my RRA!! They are sweet.

Captains1911
06-21-2011, 19:32
Love my RRA!! They are sweet.

And based on your experience, what makes it a better choice for a patrol rifle over a S&W?

SigFTW
06-22-2011, 06:39
And based on your experience, what makes it a better choice for a patrol rifle over a S&W?

I was going to ask you the same question. Why is S&W better than RRA and what are the facts to back up your statement? I would like to know too.

madecov
06-22-2011, 07:00
RRA chrome lined barrels are optional. RRA uses commercial buffer tubes. S&W uses chrome lined barrels as standard and mil spec tubes. Both receivers are made by CMT. otherwise it's a wash. Both are decent. S&W seems to be a little lower in cost. Neither gun uses 4150 steel in the barrel.

Captains1911
06-22-2011, 08:12
RRA chrome lined barrels are optional. RRA uses commercial buffer tubes. S&W uses chrome lined barrels as standard and mil spec tubes. Both receivers are made by CMT. otherwise it's a wash. Both are decent. S&W seems to be a little lower in cost. Neither gun uses 4150 steel in the barrel.

This, plus I would never trust the RRA 2-stage trigger on a duty rifle.

BuckyP
06-22-2011, 08:24
Neither gun uses 4150 steel in the barrel.


Forgive the noob question, but is this a good thing or a bad thing?

Captains1911
06-22-2011, 08:25
Forgive the noob question, but is this a good thing or a bad thing?

They use a lower quality steel than what the TDP calls for, but for a semi-auto rifle it doesn't matter.

madecov
06-22-2011, 10:08
Both also use a softer steel in the bolt and carrier. Carpenter 158 is the TDP. not sure what the steel used by CMT ( supplier of parts to both manufacturers) is. Most of the TDP spec is not critical, but the closer the gun the better chances are that it can be run hard before a failure. I've run a Stag pretty hard as a duty gun without issue. I currently run a Spikes upper on a Stag factory assembled lower as my patrol carbine

SigFTW
06-22-2011, 13:10
Both also use a softer steel in the bolt and carrier. Carpenter 158 is the TDP. not sure what the steel used by CMT ( supplier of parts to both manufacturers) is. Most of the TDP spec is not critical, but the closer the gun the better chances are that it can be run hard before a failure. I've run a Stag pretty hard as a duty gun without issue. I currently run a Spikes upper on a Stag factory assembled lower as my patrol carbine

Just to further clarify, this is a quote from Steve at RRA:
"Multiple metals, depending on which part you're discussing. The carriers themselves are case-hardened 8620.
The bolts are the same material (Carpenter 158), just chromed.
Steve/RRA"

It looks like a mix of 8620 and 158.

M&P15T
06-22-2011, 13:34
S&W. If he can find a last generation M&P15T for a good price they offer a lot of value with the Troy components.

He doesn't have to!!:supergrin:

S&W still makes and sellls both M&P15T models (at least based on their website.)

I own an original M&P15T, and I love it. 100% reliability, great accessories, good price (around $1200.00).

RatDrall
06-22-2011, 16:42
I was going to ask you the same question. Why is S&W better than RRA and what are the facts to back up your statement? I would like to know too.


I've had both.

The RRA had an assembly flaw or two, like bare metal showing around the front sight tower. The staking on the BCG was almost nonexistant as well.

The S&W is the better rifle, and less expensive. I've fired hundreds of rounds in a session, without cleaning or lubing, and have yet to see my M&P15 malfunction.

ColdBlooded
06-22-2011, 21:51
I saw around 6 upper receivers from RRA today in one of my local shops. On one of the upper receivers, I noticed bare M4 feed ramps. There was no anodizing in the ramps. They were obviously milled, or whatever, after anodization. It was only on one of the 6 receivers though.

boomhower
06-23-2011, 00:25
He doesn't have to!!:supergrin:

S&W still makes and sellls both M&P15T models (at least based on their website.)

I own an original M&P15T, and I love it. 100% reliability, great accessories, good price (around $1200.00).

Dang, didn't know that. I thought it was replaced.

Alaskapopo
06-23-2011, 01:09
A friend is looking for a patrol rifle and these are the only approved rifles. Which is the better rifle at this point.

Smith and Wesson and yes I have owned an RRA and no longer do.
Pat

pal2511
06-23-2011, 11:05
Smith and wesson might be cheaper with leo discount

mixflip
06-23-2011, 11:27
Based on preference alone (not facts) I personally would like to have a S&W M&P over a RRA. To me in a blind test I probably couldnt tell the difference at my skill level. For you high speed low drag black ops guys... these 2 choices are not even an option lol.

Patrol rifles get shot about as much as duty handguns.... not that much. That being said... any "decent" AR will do the job of LEO patrol rifle just fine.

madecov
06-23-2011, 11:37
I forgot, RRA feedramps are either milled or dremelled after anadizing. The S&W has milled in M4 ramps done correctly.

93GT
06-23-2011, 12:13
Smith and Wesson and yes I have owned an RRA and no longer do.
Pat

I would believe damn near anything Pat had to tell me about an AR-15 for what it is worth. I wanted to throw something at him the last time we debated politics, but that is irrelevant. :supergrin:

I own an older model 15T and never have owned a RR. I like mine compared dpms, a no name build, and my first AR which was a 1994 bushmaster M4 style carbine.

It is accurate and it hasn't jammed with anything that I have run through it up to 200 rounds and a dry bolt by the end of the session. Not a torture test by any means, but I have done the same with some relatively new M16s and had them jam with older GI mags and a well lubed BCG (mostly due to the mag from what I could tell at the time). I would say take out the weak links as far as poor quality mags and ammo and you should have a fine shooter in a 15T. For what it is worth, I am thinking the next build that I do will be a BCM without much more in the dollar amount in comparison to the S&W.

MPJC
07-02-2011, 10:17
S&W M&P15- I have the M&P 15X- love it! Great rifle!

fivestar
07-03-2011, 07:54
A couple of years ago I had a RRA. I had a few problems with, although nothing extreme. A few of my standard GI mags as well as a few PMAGS wouldnt drop free. Also, I had a few feeding issues here and there. Again, nothing extreme, but it was enough to sell it when I needed the cash for other things. Last year I was able to buy another rifle, and based on a friend's experience I went with S&W. So far, zero issues. I bought the Optics Ready model as I had planned on scoping it. As luck would have it, we finally got the OK to use rifles at work, and personally owned ones are fine with prior authorization. My Smith now has an Eotech XPS instead of the Leupold Mark AR. Anyways, 0 problems. From day one I've ran nothing but cheap Wolf and Tula stuff thru it, plus its my suppressor host. I couldnt be happier, and I buy another one if I ever found the cash.