Dayton CCW defends himself video... [Archive] - Glock Talk

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scwine
06-23-2011, 22:25
Looks like he did good... Aiming could have been better. But the outcome(him being safe) was good as well.

critique...

http://fox.daytonsnewssource.com/shared/newsroom/raw_news/videos/vid_47.shtml

IndyGunFreak
06-23-2011, 22:41
:rofl:

My only question would be driving off... Did the police have to come find him, or did he drive off to a safe location and call? If it was the latter, then I don't have a problem w/ anything in the vid... the former.. eh, it's a little dicier, but he has a great video that shows basically the entire thing and that he was the victim.

The video will be his best friend

That'll be a No-Bill for sure.

Edit: According to the thread on OhioCCW, he drove a few blocks away and called police, and returned to the scene when the police arrived. I'd say he handled this absolutely perfect.

IGF

gadget_guy
06-23-2011, 23:16
Awesome video. I tell ya - gas stations always raise my threat level. Too many videos like this and too many strange people at them.

I would assume (and hope) good guy drove to safe location to call 911. That is for sure what I would do. Not going to sit there while drugged up people that were just hitting me are going to come after me and my gun again.

Have to admit two .45 rounds to the abdomen is something I would expect to have stopped even drugged up attacker for good. Not in this case, but it did it's job to keep good guy safe.

gemeinschaft
06-23-2011, 23:20
Priorities:

1. Safety
2. Calling the Police

I would definitely bug out and call the Police while I was driving away from the scene.

I am pretty sure that most people would agree.

ChadSin
06-23-2011, 23:23
Everytime I stop for gas by Love field in Dallas some fricken bum beggs me for money. Its so bad that I know their faces. And Im always thinking something like this is going to happen.

Rabbi
06-23-2011, 23:26
This thing got crazy. The other crap bag who didnt get shot went home and started posting on facebook all about it, and how he would get the shooter.

itisbruno
06-23-2011, 23:31
Priorities:

1. Safety
2. Calling the Police

I would definitely bug out and call the Police while I was driving away from the scene.

I am pretty sure that most people would agree.

I don't, because I come here to argue

:tongueout:

Open carry Situational awareness could have prevented this. I never let a stranger get that close to me, always keep your distance. Get away from my car, please sir, and step back while saying it.

Other than that, he did it by the book, and thank goodness for video surveillance in this case.

I agree that bugging out to a nearby safe location and calling the police was a good call, who knows how many friends accomplices he had nearby.

Glad the good guy is safe.

Cletus
06-23-2011, 23:31
I would have done the same thing if I was in his position. And no way am I gonna sit there and wait for someone else to draw a weapon. He did the right thing by pulling away and calling 911 (If that is what he did.)

itisbruno
06-23-2011, 23:32
This thing got crazy. The other crap bag who didnt get shot went home and started posting on facebook all about it, and how he would get the shooter.

Really??

:rofl:

That'll make him hard to find.

Wadda smooth criminal he is.

gemeinschaft
06-23-2011, 23:47
I don't, because I come here to argue

:tongueout:

Open carry Situational awareness could have prevented this. I never let a stranger get that close to me, always keep your distance. Get away from my car, please sir, and step back while saying it.

Other than that, he did it by the book, and thank goodness for video surveillance in this case.

I agree that bugging out to a nearby safe location and calling the police was a good call, who knows how many friends accomplices he had nearby.

Glad the good guy is safe.

Watch it! Or I will open up a can of Tuna on yo' [edited]

itisbruno
06-23-2011, 23:50
Watch it! Or I will open up a can of Tuna on yo' [edited]

:couch:

cowboy1964
06-24-2011, 00:02
Have to admit two .45 rounds to the abdomen is something I would expect to have stopped even drugged up attacker for good. Not in this case, but it did it's job to keep good guy safe.

You can find cases all over where people get shot many more times than twice with 45's, 40's, 357 Magnums, whatever and aren't instantly stopped and many times survive. Handguns are fairly ineffective, PERIOD. Has nothing to do with caliber. That's why all the 9 vs 40 vs 45 vs 357 caliber wars are so dumb. Shot placement shot placement shot placement. Then if it penetrates far enough you may have a chance at a instant or at least rapid stop. Anything else, and you won't, unless the bad person just gives up.

The bad guy did cease and desist pretty quickly though. He just didn't deceased.

scwine
06-24-2011, 00:04
You can find cases all over where people get shot many more times than twice with 45's, 40's, 357 Magnums, whatever and aren't instantly stopped and many times survive. Handguns are fairly ineffective, PERIOD. Has nothing to do with caliber. That's why all the 9 vs 40 vs 45 vs 357 caliber wars are so dumb. Shot placement shot placement shot placement. Then if it penetrates far enough you may have a chance at a instant or at least rapid stop. Anything else, and you won't, unless the bad person just gives up.

Especially if the perp is hyped up on drugs like reported.

cowboy1964
06-24-2011, 00:06
Priorities:

1. Safety
2. Calling the Police

I would definitely bug out and call the Police while I was driving away from the scene.

I am pretty sure that most people would agree.

Depends on the exact circumstances but in this case that was probably a good call. You never know what "friends" of his could be close by.

My threat level goes up at gas stations as well, esp in worser parts of town. If you're pumping gas and get attacked a quick shot of 87 octane to the face will slow them down too.

MtBaldy
06-24-2011, 00:07
Second dirt bag is immediately on the phone after the shooting and I'm betting it was to 911. I would love to hear the audio of that call. Wanna bet it went something like, "Yo, send da ambulamps. Some dude just shot my friend for no reason at all!"?

Rabbi
06-24-2011, 00:11
Have to admit two .45 rounds to the abdomen is something I would expect to have stopped even drugged up attacker for good. Not in this case, but it did it's job to keep good guy safe.

Why? Most people who get shot(in the US) survive. The numbers are fairly hard to pin down but from all that I have seen, if you take out head shots, you stand over an 80% chance of surviving a gunshot wound from a handgun and better than 70% chance of surviving a gunshot wound from a rifle.

With the right medical care fast enough, they can fix a lot of things. I dont want to be shot but it is a highly survivable event and when it comes to duty caliber handgun rounds, it just doesnt matter much.

BEER
06-24-2011, 01:22
i ran across a thread about this on arf which led me to the forum where the shooter posted the details.

he drove away and called 911 and explained his situation, 911 operator informed him that police had already responded to that location and shooting from another report, he immediately went back to the scene and spoke to the police. he was put in a squad car and taken away pretty quickly due to dumbass perps "distraught" family members showing up on scene.

all legal officials have pretty much told him he's good to go and not to worry about anything. after seeing the facebook threats he lawyered up anyway and has been logging it all with screencaps and links forwarded to the appropriate officials.

he was not wearing his gun at the time, it was located in the center console of his car.

give me a few minutes and i'll try to backtrack and find the forum thread on it for a link.

got it, here's the forum link. the op is the shooter.

http://ohioccwforums.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=53502#p3998394

itisbruno
06-24-2011, 01:41
Thanks beer

The Machinist
06-24-2011, 04:25
The shooter posted this in the Ohio CCW forums:

the gun was a glock model 36. carrying with one in the chamber probably saved my life because i was holding myself in the car with my left hand as they were trying to pull me out of the car no way i could have racked the slide.

Think about it, peeps!

BobbyT
06-24-2011, 04:36
So now we get to feed, clothe, and house his attackers for a year or so until they're ready to attack again, and their victims likely won't be so lucky.

Carry pistol in the center console instead of on him could've meant a tragic ending.

Two round into one crackhead and none into the other instead of four rounds apiece could've also meant a tragic ending.

Glad he's ok and hope he learned something.

Judge Roy Bean
06-24-2011, 04:49
The shooter posted this in the Ohio CCW forums:



Think about it, peeps!

This got me thinking this morning, as I currently sit in a different condition.

540mope
06-24-2011, 05:00
damn...the trash and his cohort are both still breathing.
oh well. guess that's a better outcome than the innocent being dead

JGguns
06-24-2011, 05:22
Can someone post a link to the vid? I googled and looked all over the Dayton news site an nada....

IndyGunFreak
06-24-2011, 06:13
You can find cases all over where people get shot many more times than twice with 45's, 40's, 357 Magnums, whatever and aren't instantly stopped and many times survive. Handguns are fairly ineffective, PERIOD. Has nothing to do with caliber. That's why all the 9 vs 40 vs 45 vs 357 caliber wars are so dumb. Shot placement shot placement shot placement. Then if it penetrates far enough you may have a chance at a instant or at least rapid stop. Anything else, and you won't, unless the bad person just gives up.

The bad guy did cease and desist pretty quickly though. He just didn't deceased.

This post should be quoted anytime some knucklehead starts touting how awesome Caliber A is, and how bad Caliber B is... :). That's also why the first thing I look at when considering a self defense round (in any caliber) is it's penetration characteristics... which as a result, makes me prefer Bonded bullets.

Great post, and I totally agree....

PLACEMENT, PLACEMENT, PLACEMENT!

IndyGunFreak
06-24-2011, 06:15
Can someone post a link to the vid? I googled and looked all over the Dayton news site an nada....

try the first post of this thread... :)

Old Junes
06-24-2011, 06:27
Second dirt bag is immediately on the phone after the shooting and I'm betting it was to 911. I would love to hear the audio of that call. Wanna bet it went something like, "Yo, send da ambulamps. Some dude just shot my friend for no reason at all!"?

"ambulamps"??? Hahaha... :rofl:

IndyGunFreak
06-24-2011, 06:39
Corbon Pow R Balls! :rofl:

I thought those were a gimmick round. They seemed to work well for him. My problem w/ Corbon has always been that they expand to rapidly and usually do not penetrate well.

IndyGunFreak
06-24-2011, 06:51
This might interest some of you... Dirtbag #2 (who wasn't shot)... This is his facebook page... He took his "Wall" down so you can't see what was being said, but someone on OhioCCW took some screenshots...

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j263/IndyGunFreak/Facebook1.png

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j263/IndyGunFreak/Facebook2.png

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j263/IndyGunFreak/Facebook3.png

Hope the shooter remains vigilant to who and what is going on around him.

crimsonaudio
06-24-2011, 06:55
Alternating Corbon and ball ammo, worked well enough, I suppose.

Good shoot, glad the victim came away OK. Flippin' dirtbags.

The Machinist
06-24-2011, 06:56
After reading those facebook posts, I have to say that I think it's a damn shame he didn't get shot as well.

540mope
06-24-2011, 07:00
After reading those facebook posts, I have to say that I think it's a damn shame he didn't get shot as well.


no doubt!

if his worthless to society thug way of life continues, he will...keep those fingerrs crossed

M&P15T
06-24-2011, 07:49
Corbon Pow R Balls! :rofl:

I thought those were a gimmick round. They seemed to work well for him. My problem w/ Corbon has always been that they expand to rapidly and usually do not penetrate well.

No, they're a JHP just like many others out there. It's funny to see people get all worked up over calibers or specific rounds, as if using a specific JHP makes their pistol a 1 shot/1 kill weapon. People want to debate wound channels/penetration/energy levels, bloodloss, etc. It's all just silly.

It's almost pointless (when it comes to stopping a threat) to debate calibers, or what defensive ammo is better than another. All service caliber pistols suck for SD. While shot placement is important, this video clearly demonstrates shot placement can be impossible to worry over when you're defending yourself. It's mostly blind luck, and just having a pistol on you, and fighting to stay alive.

Mayhem like Me
06-24-2011, 08:00
Why? Most people who get shot(in the US) survive. The numbers are fairly hard to pin down but from all that I have seen, if you take out head shots, you stand over an 80% chance of surviving a gunshot wound from a handgun and better than 70% chance of surviving a gunshot wound from a rifle.

With the right medical care fast enough, they can fix a lot of things. I dont want to be shot but it is a highly survivable event and when it comes to duty caliber handgun rounds, it just doesnt matter much.

Close but with a rifle and a body shot it's a 70% chance of death, last figure I was looking at.

IndyGunFreak
06-24-2011, 08:03
Alternating Corbon and ball ammo, worked well enough, I suppose.

Good shoot, glad the victim came away OK. Flippin' dirtbags.

Where did you read he alternated?

M&P... I know, I was actually kidding about the Pow R Ball... Supposedly the polymer ball in the JHP cavity aids feeding for guns that are finicky about JHP's... that's what I meant by gimmick.

Like I said, I'm no fan of Corbon, but I'm glad they worked for him.

Also 100% agree w/ the rest of your post.

RMD
06-24-2011, 08:10
Where did you read he alternated?

M&P... I know, I was actually kidding about the Pow R Ball... Supposedly the polymer ball in the JHP cavity aids feeding for guns that are finicky about JHP's... that's what I meant by gimmick.

Like I said, I'm no fan of Corbon, but I'm glad they worked for him.

Also 100% agree w/ the rest of your post.

He said he was testing the Pow R Ball out and when done, he topped off the mag with a single round of ball - so BG got that first.

M&P15T
06-24-2011, 08:11
Where did you read he alternated?

M&P... I know, I was actually kidding about the Pow R Ball... Supposedly the polymer ball in the JHP cavity aids feeding for guns that are finicky about JHP's... that's what I meant by gimmick.

Like I said, I'm no fan of Corbon, but I'm glad they worked for him.

Also 100% agree w/ the rest of your post.

I wasn't hacking on you. And those Corbons PowRballs are also meant for states like NJ that prohibit JHP. I used to carry them in a finickey feeding G19 I had years back.

SPIN2010
06-24-2011, 08:11
If you are not packing in Dayton, you are asking for it. Can you feel the love of SW Ohio? :rofl:

Good on the CCW holder to protect himself. Job Well Done!

crimsonaudio
06-24-2011, 08:16
Where did you read he alternated?
He said so in the linked thread.

He also pointed out that in the abdomen photo of the thug that was shot, one hole looked to be the from the ball (the left one in the image) while the other appeared to be the Corbon.

M&P15T
06-24-2011, 08:19
He said so in the linked thread.

He also pointed out that in the abdomen photo of the thug that was shot, one hole looked to be the from the ball (the left one in the image) while the other appeared to be the Corbon.

That's an incredible photo. Just goes to show you there's no magic caliber/round out there. :shocked:

Caver 60
06-24-2011, 08:23
I always have my CCW on me, but I also have one in the center console. Both with one in the chamber and a topped off magazine. It's not always easy to draw from a seated position with a seatbelt on.

I also practice a lot of point shooting, as well as longer range shooting. You won't always get the chance to take that perfect sight picture.

http://www.spw-duf.info/point.html

DARKSHADOW
06-24-2011, 09:25
I want to know if they caught the dirt bag brother in law, saying he was there, and how he was going to get the victim on facebook. How would his actions on facebook not be criminal?
I also find his coment on the guy being a wuss (for lack of a better word) for using a gun while being attacked by two to three people. Yeah because unexpectingly jumping someone 2/3 on 1 isn't being wussy enough. What a low life. :upeyes:

Rabbi
06-24-2011, 09:28
Close but with a rifle and a body shot it's a 70% chance of death, last figure I was looking at.

There was an AMA report floating around from the 90's (and I cant find it anywhere) that put the mortality rate for rifle gunshots in the U.S at 27%. Hanguns at 17% and shotguns at over 70%.

I honestly dont remember how they came by their data sets but I *think* I remember it was a peer reviewed study.

ricklee4570
06-24-2011, 09:38
So I guess this goes in the books as a "stop" for the 45acp.

itisbruno
06-24-2011, 09:41
"Brandon was beatin the dudes arse and the REDACTED pulled a gun and shot him"

He just solidified the video evidence of a justifiable shot.

A6Gator
06-24-2011, 10:24
The gun was a glock model 36. carrying with one in the chamber probably saved my life because i was holding myself in the car with my left hand as they were trying to pull me out of the car no way i could have racked the slide.

An excerpt from his Ohio CCW forum.

Captain Ron
06-24-2011, 10:45
double post

Captain Ron
06-24-2011, 10:48
The 45acp did it's job stopped the bad guy and the good guy got away what more do want. Why was the second bad guy released?

JASV.17
06-24-2011, 10:52
"Brandon was beatin the dudes arse and the REDACTED pulled a gun and shot him"

He just solidified the video evidence of a justifiable shot.

Yeah no kidding, exactly what I thought. Good job in calling a good shoot for the victim, and all out admitting your "bruh bruh" was assaulting. I'm sure your defense lawyer will be more than pleased.

ETA: Priors? Yup....

http://www.jailbase.com/en/arrested/oh-mcso/2011-05-14/billy-blackburn-jr-1110365

matt_lowry123
06-24-2011, 11:26
Bruh bruh!!! Hahahaha what a dumb rat bastard!!

matt_lowry123
06-24-2011, 11:31
I clicked on the link to watch the vid, and I couldn't find it either. What's the name of the video and I'll see if I can find it on their web page.

HKLovingIT
06-24-2011, 12:12
Hmm,

Interesting narration by the police officer regarding the video. [For those that watched at work with the sound off :supergrin:]

You can learn a couple things here. What immediately jumps to mind to me is, the very very low probability of being able to draw and chamber a round when two guys are beating the crap out of you,

2nd, a holster with retention isn't a bad idea for the same reason,

3rd, keep the gun on you. I believe the victim had his in the car, but worked out okay.

4th, things go from bad to worse fast.

5th, shooting around gas pumps could have had some interesting outcomes.

6th, trying to draw from a pocket holster, under that circumstance, if hand was not already in pocket, would be pretty tough. But a pocket holster with hand in pocket ready to draw when d-bag was lolly-gagging around before the actual battery would be a good option because you appear to just be a guy with his hand in his pocket. Pro/Con/Pro/Con

Some quotes from the good guy:

" Sig Shooter wrote:Glad you're okay. Looks like you defended yourself very well. I hope I'm never put in that situation, but if I am, I hope I handle it as well as you did. How were you carrying the G36?
it was in the middle console did not have it on me. stupid mistake"


"the gun was a glock model 36. carrying with one in the chamber probably saved my life because i was holding myself in the car with my left hand as they were trying to pull me out of the car no way i could have racked the slide."

Other thoughts, self questions:

1. Is a laser aiming device or tac light on a civilian carry piece at all useful or practical outside of the role of home defense?
2. Is range time as a civilian spent much beyond 10 yards a feel good exercise or is time better spent on draw and shoot at close range target while moving, and possibly having to fire one handed?

Rabbi
06-24-2011, 12:20
Hmm,

Interesting narration by the police officer regarding the video. [For those that watched at work with the sound off :supergrin:]

You can learn a couple things here. What immediately jumps to mind to me is, the very very low probability of being able to draw and chamber a round when two guys are beating the crap out of you,

2nd, a holster with retention isn't a bad idea for the same reason,

3rd, keep the gun on you. I believe the victim had his in the car, but worked out okay.

4th, things go from bad to worse fast.

5th, shooting around gas pumps could have had some interesting outcomes.


1.0...Distance is life. Keep people away, even if that means you have to retreat. Even if you know you are going to have to engage, get distance. It gives you more time and time gives you choices.

Cheytac
06-24-2011, 12:34
I don't blame him for driving off, as long as he called it in and stopped nearby.

My question is why did he get back out of the car? If he were in it, as the narration stated, why didn't he get out of dodge then? :dunno:

Manzoli7
06-24-2011, 12:38
I am glad he was able to defend himself.

On TV shows whenever a bullet hits a cars gas tank or apropane tank it automatically blows up. Fortunatley this normally does not happen. I saw a training film at a local gun range called something like dangerous weapons. They take a gas tank removed from a car half full with gas and shoot it with various high powered rifles. They use tracers and different hollowpoints and round nose and it does not blow up. Gas is leeking all over the ground and finally they shoot it with a flaming arow and it blows. Also on mythbusters they did the same thing with a propane tank. They finally got it to blow up by haveing the red headed girl shoot it with a mini gun gattling shooting tracer bullets.

Rabbi
06-24-2011, 12:41
I am glad he was able to defend himself.

On TV shows whenever a bullet hits a cars gas tank or apropane tank it automatically blows up. Fortunatley this normally does not happen. I saw a training film at a local gun range called something like dangerous weapons. They take a gas tank removed from a car half full with gas and shoot it with various high powered rifles. They use tracers and different hollowpoints and round nose and it does not blow up. Gas is leeking all over the ground and finally they shoot it with a flaming arow and it blows. Also on mythbusters they did the same thing with a propane tank. They finally got it to blow up by haveing the red headed girl shoot it with a mini gun gattling shooting tracer bullets.

Few things in real life are like "in the movies"

DaneA
06-24-2011, 12:43
I don't blame him for driving off, as long as he called it in and stopped nearby.

My question is why did he get back out of the car? If he were in it, as the narration stated, why didn't he get out of dodge then? :dunno:

By his account they were trying to drag him back out of the car.

Mayhem like Me
06-24-2011, 12:48
Hmm,

Interesting narration by the police officer regarding the video. [For those that watched at work with the sound off :supergrin:]

You can learn a couple things here. What immediately jumps to mind to me is, the very very low probability of being able to draw and chamber a round when two guys are beating the crap out of you,

2nd, a holster with retention isn't a bad idea for the same reason,

3rd, keep the gun on you. I believe the victim had his in the car, but worked out okay.

4th, things go from bad to worse fast.

5th, shooting around gas pumps could have had some interesting outcomes.

6th, trying to draw from a pocket holster, under that circumstance, if hand was not already in pocket, would be pretty tough. But a pocket holster with hand in pocket ready to draw when d-bag was lolly-gagging around before the actual battery would be a good option because you appear to just be a guy with his hand in his pocket. Pro/Con/Pro/Con

Some quotes from the good guy:

" Sig Shooter wrote:Glad you're okay. Looks like you defended yourself very well. I hope I'm never put in that situation, but if I am, I hope I handle it as well as you did. How were you carrying the G36?
it was in the middle console did not have it on me. stupid mistake"


"the gun was a glock model 36. carrying with one in the chamber probably saved my life because i was holding myself in the car with my left hand as they were trying to pull me out of the car no way i could have racked the slide."

Other thoughts, self questions:

1. Is a laser aiming device or tac light on a civilian carry piece at all useful or practical outside of the role of home defense?
2. Is range time as a civilian spent much beyond 10 yards a feel good exercise or is time better spent on draw and shoot at close range target while moving, and possibly having to fire one handed?


Your summation is well thought out.

A laser may or may not help, if it is on it allows target focus which is good.

I think from this that we can learn that civilians (ANYONE) need(s) to practice fighting off maybe more than one attacker at odd angles while trying to access their firearm.

Simple Martial self defense skills were needed in this case just to get the gun into the fight, could be the same if the gun is in an IWB under a cover garmet, pocket holster, open carry ,,,,etc.

itisbruno
06-24-2011, 15:19
1.0...Distance is life. Keep people away, even if that means you have to retreat. Even if you know you are going to have to engage, get distance. It gives you more time and time gives you choices.

You said it much beter than I did - keep strangers away.

matt_lowry123
06-24-2011, 15:39
Alright I just watched it!!! I was trying to on my phone and it wouldn't let me. You have to be on a computer to watch it? I don't know much about computers or my phone I guess!! Anyways, that guy hit the deck pretty dang quick!!

Gallium
06-25-2011, 04:51
Cliff notes:



This happened June 17th.
CCWer was a gas pump filling up
Crack head (media's definition) saunters over, leans on CCW car, etc
CCWer has loaded Glock in center console of car
Accoster gets in a tussle, crack-friend runs over
CCWer retrieves gun, tells em to frig-off, shoots 1st guy twice.

It is reported the CCWer said if his gun had not been chambered, he would have been unable to do so.

http://fox.daytonsnewssource.com/shared/newsroom/raw_news/videos/vid_47.shtml

IndyGunFreak
06-25-2011, 05:10
http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1351630

El Dami
06-25-2011, 05:18
I wish this kind of stuff made national news. It would certainly act as a deterant.

alwaysshootin
06-25-2011, 05:54
I wish this kind of stuff made national news. It would certainly act as a deterant.

Assuming crack heads watched the national news, you'd be right!

eracer
06-25-2011, 06:00
Assuming crack heads watched the national news, you'd be right!
CNN (Crackhead News Network)

alwaysshootin
06-25-2011, 06:19
CNN (Crackhead News Network)

Good one!:rofl:

datnvan
06-25-2011, 06:30
why was his gun in the car and not on his person???!!!

Dr.Midnight
06-25-2011, 06:40
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCaRdCQCSuc&NR=1

doktarZues
06-25-2011, 06:53
Looked good to me.. and would have been good in Florida for sure. "Forcible felony" seems to be the foundation that deadly force/self defense is married to in Florida and that definitely qualified.

776.08 Forcible felony.
"Forcible felony" means treason; murder; manslaughter; sexual battery; carjacking; home-invasion robbery; robbery; burglary; arson; kidnapping; aggravated assault; aggravated battery; aggravated stalking; aircraft piracy; unlawful throwing, placing, or discharging of a destructive device or bomb; and any other felony which involves the use or threat of physical force or violence against any individual.

Nakanokalronin
06-25-2011, 07:11
The shooter posted this in the Ohio CCW forums:

the gun was a glock model 36. carrying with one in the chamber probably saved my life because i was holding myself in the car with my left hand as they were trying to pull me out of the car no way i could have racked the slide. Think about it, peeps!

Exactly what I was describing about a month ago about C1 since your other hand might be doing something else. I said nobody has a crystal ball and you don't know what the future scenario will be so carrying with one in the pipe is a good idea. I was then told on this forum if I was going to be that prepared then why not carry a rifle incase of a lion attacked me. :upeyes:

C3 carriers can continue to think they will never need their gun but you never know if both hands or a sharp corner to rack your gun with your rear sight will be available or even possible.

Now I'll sit back and wait for the responses of why C3 is safer and just as quick as C1.....except for the individual in the video and many others like it of course. :whistling:

Wasatch
06-25-2011, 07:20
Exactly what I was describing about a month ago about C1 since your other hand might be doing something else. I said nobody has a crystal ball so you don't know the scenario so carrying with one in the pipe is a good idea. I was then told on this forum if I was going to be that prepared then why not carry a rifle incase of a lion attacked me. :upeyes:

C3 carriers can continue to think they will never need their gun but you never know if both hands or a sharp corner to rack your gun with your rear sight will be available or even possible.

Now I'll sit back and wait for the responses of why C3 is safer and just as quick as C1.....except for the individual in the video and many others like it of course. :whistling:

I didn't think the C3 defender(s) hung out in GNG. They're all but self-appointed moderators in CI and T&T. That presence is one of the reasons I hardly visit/post there anymore.

Gallium
06-25-2011, 07:25
Threads merged!

:)

cowboywannabe
06-25-2011, 08:01
glad hes ok, but he was not Carrying Concealed Weapon. it was in the car off his person for God's sake!

maybe he will learn from this.

IndyGunFreak
06-25-2011, 08:06
glad hes ok, but he was not Carrying Concealed Weapon. it was in the car off his person for God's sake!

maybe he will learn from this.

If you read his comments on the OhioCCW forum, he admits that was a mistake.. and I'm assuming one he will not make again

jdavionic
06-25-2011, 08:06
The shooter posted this in the Ohio CCW forums:



Think about it, peeps!

Thanks. Here's the thread on the other forum, in case others are interested.
http://ohioccwforums.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=53502&sid=1941912844697940996326ebc01b0026

tag
06-25-2011, 09:16
So now we get to feed, clothe, and house his attackers for a year or so until they're ready to attack again, and their victims likely won't be so lucky.

Carry pistol in the center console instead of on him could've meant a tragic ending.

Two round into one crackhead and none into the other instead of four rounds apiece could've also meant a tragic ending.

Glad he's ok and hope he learned something.

He shot until his attackers stopped. While having the gun on him might have been more ideal, he clearly prevailed in this situation. #winning in my book.

doktarZues
06-25-2011, 11:07
Thanks. Here's the thread on the other forum, in case others are interested.
http://ohioccwforums.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=53502&sid=1941912844697940996326ebc01b0026

Thanks for that link.. very interesting. I'm up to page 5 so far heh. Has screenshots posted of the 2nd perp talking all about it on facebook, admitting he was there and insinuating there will be revenge.

I did have a point I wanted to bring up for discussion..the narrator says "he told them he had a gun" like this was another step in justifying self defense. My understanding is if you have the right to draw your gun (or threaten the use of a gun) then you have the right to use a gun..at least in Florida. If it hasn't escalated to a scenario where you are justifiably in fear for your life, doesn't agg assault or with a deadly weapon come into play?

I never intend on telling someone I have a gun or drawing my gun as a show of force or deterrent. I intend my gun only to become knowledge when it come out to be used. What are your thoughts?

DaneA
06-25-2011, 14:16
glad hes ok, but he was not Carrying Concealed Weapon. it was in the car off his person for God's sake!

maybe he will learn from this.

In Ohio the center console is considered concealed and requires a ccw permit. But as everyone include the fellow involved agrees that he should have had it on his person.

LApm9
06-25-2011, 14:30
IMHO....

I would not have remained out there in the lot with that fellow hanging onto me like a leech. That is the most obvious "interview" I have ever seen. I would certainly not have opened my car door and sat down while he was there...that was what he fellow was waiting for!

The defender was overly focused on getting his gas. It was his legal right to do, but going back inside the store and calling the law from there would have saved him the trouble of the ordeal.

My old MA instructor told me that most folks who end up as crime victims get that way because they are afraid of acting stupid (or rude). He told us to be ready to abandon any material thing, or your pride, in order to avoid danger and to run like the wind if necessary. The crooks don't expect that!

If the family is in the car, ya gotta stay. Otherwise, that's what insurance is for.

H&K 4 LIFE
06-25-2011, 15:51
Score one for the good guy. :thumbsup:

How much more stupid could those worthless scumbags be? Posting details on facebook and making threats, I only wish all criminals were that dumb. Would make the cops and prosecutors jobs so much easier. :rofl:

John43
06-25-2011, 16:08
After reading all these posts I think that he should have driven to the Police station. After returning to the gas station they took him to the station in the police car. His car must have been towed or driven in. All you have to do is look up his tag on public data and get his name and address. This exposes him to the other bad guy who was still on the loose finding him. Now they know all about him and he is vulnerable. I can't believe their FB posts. I think if I was him I would move far away as soon as possible. It is a very dangerous position he is in.

SouthernStructure
06-25-2011, 16:31
its funny that the BG was praying for his life when he showed no remorse.

Sam Spade
06-25-2011, 17:13
Wait---he talked to the police after a shooting and the sky didn't fall. He got cut loose without mortgaging his house for attorney fees. Dogs and cats didn't lay down together.

Dr.Midnight
06-25-2011, 17:40
After reading all these posts I think that he should have driven to the Police station. After returning to the gas station they took him to the station in the police car. His car must have been towed or driven in. All you have to do is look up his tag on public data and get his name and address. This exposes him to the other bad guy who was still on the loose finding him. Now they know all about him and he is vulnerable. I can't believe their FB posts. I think if I was him I would move far away as soon as possible. It is a very dangerous position he is in.

If it were an "intelligent" criminal, I would be inclined to agree. However, the chances of this mental midget being capable of that remains low. He writes that he never forgets a face. Hell, judging from his Facebook posts, he forgot the damn alphabet. I don't know what kind of jibberish he was writing, but it was almost painful to read.

Still wouldn't hurt for this shooter to be very aware of what's going on around him from now on.

Warp
06-25-2011, 18:18
Wait---he talked to the police after a shooting and the sky didn't fall. He got cut loose without mortgaging his house for attorney fees. Dogs and cats didn't lay down together.


And it also seems that the guy he shot was unarmed.

No way!

HWA GLOCKER
06-25-2011, 18:35
I work 2 minutes from there I drive past that gas station every day, their is always bums, drunks and punks around their I would never get gas their, about every day I hear about bad stuff happening on that block. Another reason I cary everywhere!

Warp
06-25-2011, 18:35
I work 2 minutes from their I drive past that gas station every day, their is always bums, drunks and punks around their I would never get gas their, about every day I hear about bad stuff happening on that block. Another reason I cary everywhere!

Their

HWA GLOCKER
06-25-2011, 18:43
Their
:crying:I'm so sorry Warp it wont happen again.

Gunnut 45/454
06-25-2011, 19:41
Yep he learn the most valueable lesson -"Keep one in the chamber" ! He was very lucky he got to his weapon! Good shoot!:supergrin:

Misty02
06-25-2011, 20:06
There is much more to learn from this incident than carrying on your person and not allowing strangers to violate your personal space. Oddly enough, I had been involved in a discussion about leaving the scene after a SD event if conditions there were less than favorable so I was not at all surprised by that part; which, by the way, turned out to be the right thing as family and buddies seemed to have joined the BG at the scene soon thereafter.

I can only assume that after such a traumatic event the victim will have other more pressing things to do that enlist help from others. He was able to enlist help from those in the forum without saying too much about what happened, most of which was on the video and the news report; still, different weight when posted by him.

The work of others in the forum revealed the threats being made in the accompliceís FB page. I cannot say Iíve given much consideration or planning to acts of revenge by friends or relatives of the person I would defend myself against. That adds to the aftermath a needed state of awareness that is sharp 24/7. Iím betting that a normal person that just shot another may not be at their prime, help may be needed thinking things through. Heís lucky the threats were discovered, what if they existed and he just didnít know?

I now have more things to deal with and think about than I did yesterday (because I had not thought about it before);

1. How to find out if there are threats being made toward myself or my family.
2. How to deal with possible threats from accomplices and friends of the BG
3. How to heighten security for the family and my own around the clock until things cool off some.
4. How to determine when things have cooled off.
5. If schools is in session, determine if the school is to be notified of the threats and have them keep an extra eye on the kids in case they observe anything remotely outside the ordinary
6. Whether or not to create distance between myself and loved ones, at least until the accomplice is behind bars.
7. Do I mention anything in a forum, even if just to provide links of media links to hopefully enlist additional help and be given ideas I may not have thought of on my own?

I donít have a FB nor participate in any other social media. I donít use my true and full name anywhere I participate on line. Granted much can be obtained with just the IP but I am hoping criminals, their resources and acquaintances are either not that knowledgeable or helpful.

For those with FB or other social media accounts using their own names:

1 Does your page contain any information that leads BGs to places you frequent?
2 Are children wearing uniforms that identify their schools or extracurricular activities?
3 Who do you have in your friends list?
4 How much information can be gathered from their page?
5 Can they be tied to you as a loved one versus an acquaintance?
6 Do the pictures posted contain any coded GPS information?

Much to think about, much to learn.

Wasatch
06-25-2011, 20:57
[FONT=Verdana]For those with FB or other social media accounts using their own names:

1 Does your page contain any information that leads BGs to places you frequent?
2 Are children wearing uniforms that identify their schools or extracurricular activities?
3 Who do you have in your friends list?
4 How much information can be gathered from their page?
5 Can they be tied to you as a loved one versus an acquaintance?
6 Do the pictures posted contain any coded GPS information?

Much to think about, much to learn.

Some excellent points, Misty.

I was surprised that our hero-good-guy posted anything online about it when it was so fresh and still in a state of flux. Given the fact that forums like GT and Ohio CCW are public, I'd be hesitant to post anything regarding the incident right away. Granted, the thugs might never put 2+2 together and start lurking around on CCW forums to find the guy; but I'd still want to be absolutely certain that I wasn't going to court for anything related to the incident before breathing a word about it online.

As for Facebook and other social media: If I'm ever in our hero's shoes, one of the first things on my to-do list will be to close all social-media accounts. I wonder how easy/quick/secure that process is...

Warp
06-25-2011, 20:58
As for Facebook and other social media: If I'm ever in our hero's shoes, one of the first things on my to-do list will be to close all social-media accounts. I wonder how easy/quick/secure that process is...

I think I would do the same.

Misty02
06-25-2011, 21:23
Some excellent points, Misty.

I was surprised that our hero-good-guy posted anything online about it when it was so fresh and still in a state of flux. Given the fact that forums like GT and Ohio CCW are public, I'd be hesitant to post anything regarding the incident right away. Granted, the thugs might never put 2+2 together and start lurking around on CCW forums to find the guy; but I'd still want to be absolutely certain that I wasn't going to court for anything related to the incident before breathing a word about it online.

As for Facebook and other social media: If I'm ever in our hero's shoes, one of the first things on my to-do list will be to close all social-media accounts. I wonder how easy/quick/secure that process is...

I don’t know, Wasatch. I don’t have any of those because I’m still stuck in the middle ages where you keep your online activities as anonymous as possible. I did post something similar to the above in his thread in case he had not thought about it already.

I do know that what is posted online is never truly gone, it can be accessed; however, it may take a court order to get that information. Cached pages in sites like google could be problematic.

http://www.googleguide.com/cached_pages.html





Practically every search result includes a Cached link. Clicking on that link takes you to the Google cached version of that web page, instead of the current version of the page. This is useful if the original page is unavailable because of:

Internet congestion
A down, overloaded, or just slow website
The owner’s recently removing the page from the Web
Sometimes you can access the cached version from a site that otherwise require registration or a subscription.

My main concern with posting anything online about the event is that if the BGs didn’t know who I was (which they’ll find quicker than I’m comfortable with anyway) posting it in a place I frequent will lead google searches to it. It might take years of reading but anyone interested would be able to gather plenty of personal information about me even with a protected IP.

As far as increasing your legal troubles, if you provide little information and links to what is already being published by different media outlets the increase risk in that area is likely to be low.

.

Sam Spade
06-25-2011, 21:59
From Misty:

1. How to find out if there are threats being made toward myself or my family.
They are, it's a given. More important is how serious the intent is.

2. How to deal with possible threats from accomplices and friends of the BG
Report anything that comes your way. First, you establish the paper trail. Next, you lay the foundation for witness tampering charges. And if you have to shoot the next guy, it's not like you were stalking him a la Bronson.

3. How to heighten security for the family and my own around the clock until things cool off some.
Start by getting your neighbors on your side now. They've got what you need: extra eyes to notice the car that doesn't belong, or the guy going door to door. Other stuff is situational, but unless you whack a mobster you ought to already be able to have it running day to day.

4. How to determine when things have cooled off.
They don't. It bubbles to the surface at trial, at sentencing, at parole hearings, at release. If he's dead, there are birthdays, death days, or parties where the 40 gets passed around and his name comes up. Little bangers need to make their bones, and on and on.

5. If schools is in session, determine if the school is to be notified of the threats and have them keep an extra eye on the kids in case they observe anything remotely outside the ordinary
6. Whether or not to create distance between myself and loved ones, at least until the accomplice is behind bars.
7. Do I mention anything in a forum, even if just to provide links of media links to hopefully enlist additional help and be given ideas I may not have thought of on my own?
I wouldn't, but I already have all sorts of help to call on. You might develop a couple of trusted friends that can ask on your behalf, you might be willing to ask yourself if you're satisfied that your loss of anonymity isn't such a big deal. If I were you, I'd go the friend or PM route.

Misty02
06-25-2011, 23:13
From Misty:

1. How to find out if there are threats being made toward myself or my family.
They are, it's a given. More important is how serious the intent is.

2. How to deal with possible threats from accomplices and friends of the BG
Report anything that comes your way. First, you establish the paper trail. Next, you lay the foundation for witness tampering charges. And if you have to shoot the next guy, it's not like you were stalking him a la Bronson.

3. How to heighten security for the family and my own around the clock until things cool off some.
Start by getting your neighbors on your side now. They've got what you need: extra eyes to notice the car that doesn't belong, or the guy going door to door. Other stuff is situational, but unless you whack a mobster you ought to already be able to have it running day to day.

4. How to determine when things have cooled off.
They don't. It bubbles to the surface at trial, at sentencing, at parole hearings, at release. If he's dead, there are birthdays, death days, or parties where the 40 gets passed around and his name comes up. Little bangers need to make their bones, and on and on.

5. If schools is in session, determine if the school is to be notified of the threats and have them keep an extra eye on the kids in case they observe anything remotely outside the ordinary
6. Whether or not to create distance between myself and loved ones, at least until the accomplice is behind bars.
7. Do I mention anything in a forum, even if just to provide links of media links to hopefully enlist additional help and be given ideas I may not have thought of on my own?
I wouldn't, but I already have all sorts of help to call on. You might develop a couple of trusted friends that can ask on your behalf, you might be willing to ask yourself if you're satisfied that your loss of anonymity isn't such a big deal. If I were you, I'd go the friend or PM route.

Thank you for your comments, Sam. Iíve been asking some hard questions and it goes without saying that some of the responses are not very comforting. If going through such as experience is not bad enough, to that add the added tension of looking over your shoulders for the remainder of your life. Hopefully the revenge is zeroed in the person that caused their grief and not their family members.

You have available resources that someone like me obviously doesnít have. Then again, youíve probably developed a few followers already that make those resources more necessary than it would for someone like me.

My attorney will be dealing with the legal aspects but I doubt heíll be waking up at night remembering another personal precaution I should have taken and calling me to tell me about it. I have good neighbors, we were all tested after Wilma and we came together to help one another beautifully. I would not expect them to take any action that would risk their safety but I have little doubt theyíll alert us, after something like that, of the slightest suspicious thing that happens around here.

All this is new to me and will require a lot more thought and preparation.

If anyone can come up with additional things to consider and give thought to, please post them as they will certainly benefit someone else.

.

tag
06-26-2011, 07:48
Having lived through this type of situation first hand, I can share some insight.


Leaving the scene can be a good idea, so long as you call the police immediately. BGs don't always call 911 first, sometimes they call their friends, relatives and gang members.
Get a lawyer, even if you think you're in the clear with the police. In my situation, days after the fact, I encountered a young detective that was confident that I was in the wrong.....despite the fact that the incident happened in my house after the BG forced entry. My attorney was able to thwart his attempt to hold me in jail during questioning.
Don't discuss the incident online or with the media. In my case, the media not only published my picture and a picture of my home, but they also published a picture of my car and my place of employment.
Tell the police of any threats. In my case, I was able to get increased patrols around my house, which helped a little.
Be aware of your surroundings 24/7. This should be a given. I was able to spot someone tailing me from my work and call police. The occupants weren't armed, but they were documenting my movements.


In my situation (which happened about 12 years ago), my attacker wasn't a member of a gang, but he had several family members interested in causing me harm. After a few weeks, they slipped back in their drug-induced states and forgot all about me. The brother of my attacker made some violent threats against me in open court, no less, so the judge held him in contempt for a couple of days. Most of the police I encountered were helpful, and most of them suggested that I arm myself 24/7. Only one cop, the detective, gave me any grief about using a firearm in self defense.

Misty02
06-26-2011, 10:04
Thank you for sharing your experience, tag. I can only imagine what you must have gone through and Iím glad you are ok.

We try to learn from every case we encounter and pray we never have to put that knowledge to work. Iím aware that every case will be different but we can still learn enough to formulate a basic plan to adapt as needed. The least that catches by surprise (because we never thought it possible), the better position (in general) we would likely be in.

.

1 old 0311
06-26-2011, 11:57
I know exactly where that's at. Don't go there at night.:whistling: