Strictly a worse case scenario rifle. [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Teecher45
06-30-2011, 14:31
Looking for a rifle (preferably in .308) for nothing but SHTF and range gun. I have more than a few .308 FMJ's lying around and like the round.
I'm looking at the Kel-Tec RFB. Anyone heard anything about them lately?
Are they easy to find now?
Street price?
Reliable?
Any better ideas for around $1500?
Don't want a full-sized battle rifle, like an M1A or Garand. Thanks...

GeorgiaRedfish
06-30-2011, 14:32
for around 1.5k? No
But the FN SCAR 17s sure is sweet looking.

Travclem
06-30-2011, 14:45
I like Kel Tec's innovative designs and think they are neat toys, I have a mess of them. I just don't see that robust, made for hard use, design in Kel Tec weapons. If my life was on the line I'd opt for a different rifle. Maybe an FNAR or a RRA LAR-8, they seem to be a bit more robust.

WarEagle32
06-30-2011, 14:47
Since you are set on a .308 for 1500 I would go one of two ways. I would get either a DPMS AP4 308 and customize the hell out of it with the money that's left over. If not the DPMS I would get a M1a SOCOM and customize it! Both are small (for the .308) carbines. I have a DPMS .308 and love it, but I would also love a M1a SOCOM! The .308 keeps most of it's velocity at 16 inches. However, you don't want to go any shorter than that with a .308.

gjk5
06-30-2011, 20:55
No. You could get a decent AR10 and a barely decent scope for that price.

Teecher45
06-30-2011, 21:20
I have a Colt LE 6920. I would like to go another way. No FNAR, I don't like the fact that I have to send it back to them to clean after 1,000 rds.
I have to admit I am a little interested in the SOCOM II, however I have heard they (as is all M1A's) are very ammo finicky, slam-fires and all. Do they only fire 7.62 NATO ball? I don't know, maybe just rumors?

PlasticGuy
06-30-2011, 21:24
The RFB is a cool design, but has a reputation for being fragile. Personally, I would never spend $1500 on anything made by Kel-Tec.

For that money, you could get a PTR or a DSA STG. Both are fantastic rifles.

Liquid
06-30-2011, 21:47
sadly from what i have read over the years i would prefer an ak.

GAU-8
07-01-2011, 00:33
To the OP:

If you have an LE 6920 you already have one of the best SHTF weapons available. The LE 6920 is my goto rifle as well even though I do have an M1A and others. 308 is nice but the weapons and ammo are really heavy. I can fire the 6920 quite effectively with just one hand. There is no way I can pull that off with an M1a or any other 308. So as far as SHTF I think you are set with the 6920. I would keep it and add the 308 for versatility in your collection.

Personally I really like the DPMS M4 style carbine in 308. I do not own one but have seen them in action. They seem to be reliable enough and much easier to add optics than most other 308 service rifles.

In the M1a department, I would go with the scout/squad version and not the Socom. The Socom's 16 inch tube just loses too much velocity in 308. IMO the scout/squad length is the ideal comprimise for your purpose.

Good luck with your selection!

jp3975
07-01-2011, 00:39
How about a Saiga for...dont they run about $600?

themighty9mm
07-01-2011, 02:34
Looking for a rifle (preferably in .308) for nothing but SHTF and range gun. I have more than a few .308 FMJ's lying around and like the round.
I'm looking at the Kel-Tec RFB. Anyone heard anything about them lately?
Are they easy to find now?
Street price?
Reliable?
Any better ideas for around $1500?
Don't want a full-sized battle rifle, like an M1A or Garand. Thanks...
If you are wanting a 308. About the only thing in semi auto you will find will be along the lines of a full sized battle rifle. With you price point, and caliber you desire for the roll you want you are kinda limited on your choices. Might check out the dpms line of 308 m4esk rifles, maybe a FAL, or ar10. As far as keltec goes, IMO they really dont scream durable to me. I beleive M1a's and FN's are outta the price point. If you can swing it though the scar looks pretty appealing

m2hmghb
07-01-2011, 03:26
Kel-Tec RFB would be my pick for you, but I havent heard much about them.

woodrowNC
07-01-2011, 03:32
rem 700 sps tactical. best 550 rifle made. and with the money you save, you get a nice tactical scope.

well, maybe it's not what you want, but it's what i want. :cool:

TScottW99
07-01-2011, 03:53
Does it have to be a semi? For the price range I would RRA for a semi... http://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=255

For a small package look at a scout style bolt action...

Savage http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/10FCM+SCOUT

ArmoryDoc
07-01-2011, 05:38
DSA FAL in 18" Para folder.

HKLovingIT
07-01-2011, 05:50
SAIGA .308 and then convert it.

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/edu36.htm

http://www.theboxotruth.com/images/e36-3.jpg

D3S3RT_P3NGU1N
07-01-2011, 05:50
DSA FAL in 18" Para folder.

+1 on this, or possibly a scout squad M1A

You could even turn it into a bullpup later if you really wanted to :supergrin:

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs1160.snc4/150261_455807871746_541086746_5916076_1451743_n.jpg

snwbrdr435
07-01-2011, 05:54
What about that new ruger scout rifle.

Myke_Hart
07-01-2011, 06:01
A perfect one for you would be a LAR-8

I have a Rock River LAR-8 that I purchased recently for $1000 brand new.

They come with one mag and no sights (A4) with a blow mold case.

They are one of the few rifles that can use metric or inch magazines (FAL/L1A1 mags), This mean you can buy surplus FAL/L1A1 magazines on the cheap! (Yes, I have tested both metric and inch in this gun reliably.)

Rock River LAR-8 Standard A4.. as purchased.
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll264/myke_hart/Rifles%20Black/IMG_1610.jpg
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll264/myke_hart/Rifles%20Black/IMG_1609.jpg

I have since added a long range scope to mine. But you can add iron sites, red dot, scope or both.
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll264/myke_hart/Rifles%20Black/IMG_1694.jpg

Talk about a tack driver!:supergrin:

freedom790
07-01-2011, 06:04
I have a Colt LE 6920. I would like to go another way. No FNAR, I don't like the fact that I have to send it back to them to clean after 1,000 rds.
I have to admit I am a little interested in the SOCOM II, however I have heard they (as is all M1A's) are very ammo finicky, slam-fires and all. Do they only fire 7.62 NATO ball? I don't know, maybe just rumors?

I've got A LOT of rounds through my M1A and I've never had a slam fire, FTF/E/Fire/extract/etc. Its ran 100% true since day one. I roll my own ammo and use CCI primers, winchester brass, hornady bullets, and varget powder. In regards to its pickiness with ammo, its about the powder charge and burn rate that decides how well it treats the rifle. I believe American Eagle manufactures a .308 cartridge specifically made for the M1A/M14 if you like to buy factory ammo. YMMV.

jrs93accord
07-01-2011, 06:14
PTR-91 KB (7.62 NATO/.308WIN)

http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/6006/dsc00956z.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/197/dsc00956z.jpg/)


A compact package with a big punch.

D3S3RT_P3NGU1N
07-01-2011, 06:28
What about that new ruger scout rifle.

The Ruger Scout rifle seems pointless to me, it lacks both the firepower of a semi auto and the accuracy of a good bolt gun :dunno:

Unistat
07-01-2011, 06:32
What about that new ruger scout rifle.

If I was looking for a general purpose, range/STHF/hunting rifle, I would really consider this. It's what the Scout concept is meant to be. Of cource, you have to be someone who like the Scout concept, which I do.

I'm still trying to get my Mosin-Nagant Scout hammered out.

woodrowNC
07-01-2011, 09:32
A perfect one for you would be a LAR-8

I have a Rock River LAR-8 that I purchased recently for $1000 brand new.

They come with one mag and no sights (A4) with a blow mold case.

They are one of the few rifles that can use metric or inch magazines (FAL/L1A1 mags), This mean you can buy surplus FAL/L1A1 magazines on the cheap! (Yes, I have tested both metric and inch in this gun reliably.)

Rock River LAR-8 Standard A4.. as purchased.
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll264/myke_hart/Rifles%20Black/IMG_1610.jpg
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll264/myke_hart/Rifles%20Black/IMG_1609.jpg

I have since added a long range scope to mine. But you can add iron sites, red dot, scope or both.
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll264/myke_hart/Rifles%20Black/IMG_1694.jpg

Talk about a tack driver!:supergrin:

that's nice. i like it.

byf43
07-01-2011, 09:43
Looking for a rifle (preferably in .308) for nothing but SHTF and range gun. I have more than a few .308 FMJ's lying around and like the round.
I'm looking at the Kel-Tec RFB. Anyone heard anything about them lately?
Are they easy to find now?
Street price?
Reliable?
Any better ideas for around $1500?
Don't want a full-sized battle rifle, like an M1A or Garand. Thanks...

Not considered 'full-sized', but, M1A "Scout/Squad" or "Bush" rifle.
Nice, smaller rifle. 7.62x51mm NATO/.308.

Accurate.

woodrowNC
07-01-2011, 10:31
PTR-91 KB (7.62 NATO/.308WIN)

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m8/jamesrea_2006/029_29.jpg

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m8/jamesrea_2006/028_28.jpg

A compact package with a big punch.

nice jr. i've a mp15, but love a .308. what kind of price?

Bilbo Bagins
07-01-2011, 13:11
For $1500 I would go with a Springfield M1a over a Kel Tec.

Also do a seach on Youtube. Nutnfancy had a mall ninja "Run and Gun" series with a RFB, a SCAR and a Frankenstein put together M1A and I think the M1a still did better then the RFB

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QOK0MQCr1o

Boats
07-01-2011, 17:30
Perhaps you should consider not going with .308 at all and open up to a far larger spectrum of choices at the $1500 price point.

I wouldn't get into a MBR without a $2k cash fund to get started with.

jrs93accord
07-01-2011, 18:16
nice jr. i've a mp15, but love a .308. what kind of price?

I bought this one about 6 years ago for about $1300. It originally came with a full buttstock, but I bought the HK retractable stock with it. I bought the HK web sling for it a couple years later for around $12. Impact Guns has this PTR-91 KPF listed for $1844.99. Top Gun Supply has them for $1699.95.

rem2429
07-01-2011, 19:30
I got a NIB M1a Scout Squad for that at the height of the panic. I'd do this again, get a DSA FAL, or look at a saiga conversion for a lot less.
There is nothing wrong with a good bolt gun either.

Teecher45
07-04-2011, 14:14
Thanks for all of your help guys, going to keep an open mind for now. Maybe work on an optic for my 6920 first, dunno...
Going to do some more reasearch.

evlbruce
07-05-2011, 07:18
FYI, the RFB is getting an improved gas system (read KTOG.org). I'd hold off a purchase until the new system is implemented and tested.

maxmanta
07-24-2011, 20:44
+1 to the PTR-91.

Beautifully made guns. By some reports, they're even better than the original HK91's.

UtahIrishman
07-24-2011, 22:01
DSA FAL in 18" Para folder.

I'll second this.

PAPACHUCK
07-25-2011, 04:05
You like AK's.

You like the .308 cartridge.

Your answer;

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h11/PAPACHUCK/DSCN0023-1-1.jpg

.45Super-Man
07-25-2011, 05:15
I absolutely agree with those who suggested a converted SAIGA .308. You get the legendary reliability of the AK with the harder hitting .308....what's not to like? If not that, the PTR-91 would be my first choice.

Darkangel1846
07-25-2011, 06:44
AR10a4

vafish
07-25-2011, 07:17
The Ruger Scout rifle seems pointless to me, it lacks both the firepower of a semi auto and the accuracy of a good bolt gun :dunno:

Go to gunsite and see how a scout rifle.can be handled. You you would see just how wrong you are.

Cooper designed the scout concept for what the op wants.

I think it would work perfectly IF he is willing to take the time and ammo to master it.

Upstate Glocker
07-25-2011, 07:21
If by SHTF-ready you mean rugged, capable of firing without daily after-action cleaning, easy to takedown, reasonable for hunting accuracy but not a range gun, etc. then DSA FAL all the way.

DSA has many models for your perusal in 18" and shorter barrels (although in .308 I wouldn't go below 18" and below 16" makes no sense to me at all).

M1A Scout or Saiga would also qualify.

Check out Boston's Gun Bible for an exhaustive review of the available hardware if you want to really read-up on this topic.

Glockdude1
07-25-2011, 07:40
PTR-91 KB (7.62 NATO/.308WIN)

http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/6006/dsc00956z.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/197/dsc00956z.jpg/)

A compact package with a big punch.

:thumbsup:

scorpio2011
07-25-2011, 08:00
when shtf how many rounds of ammo are you going to be able to carry ?

vafish
07-25-2011, 12:04
when shtf how many rounds of ammo are you going to be able to carry ?

Now don't go trying to put logic into folks fantasies. :rofl:

I laugh whenever there is an accident on the interstate around here and I think about folks who talk about having thousands of rounds of ammo and "bugging out"

IF the S really H's the F around here and you don't have a helicopter you are walking out.

RustyShackelford
07-25-2011, 17:43
PTR-91 KB (7.62 NATO/.308WIN)

http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/6006/dsc00956z.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/197/dsc00956z.jpg/)


A compact package with a big punch.

That rifle is so HOT!!

/dreaming of getting one

chuck pullen
07-25-2011, 17:55
My Saiga .223 has been flawless. I'm pretty confident you can't go wrong with the brand, regardless of caliber.

Nestor
07-25-2011, 18:00
I'm finding myself bored with the SHTF threads lately, but to be perfectly honest there was a time when I was asking exactly the same question.
My solution to this problem would be to find the most robust, most reliable rifle, chambered in popular caliber that should be able to take a deer up to 300-400 yards. Caliber availability is a key, but a little bit of research won't hurt either.
In my case I started my research with finding a military unit that is dealing on daily basis with the similar climate to where I live.
Well...I came up with the Danish unit operating in Arctic.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slædepatruljen_Sirius
They are using bolt action rifles as they found them most reliable under extreme conditions. From that moment on, my choice was pretty easy.
Most popular calibers that are capable of taking the deer at the above mentioned distances are 30-06, .308 and 303 British. My choice was Lee Enfield No.4 Mk2 chambered in 303 British. Time tested design that still can be pretty damn effective in the hands of trained shooter. Just an idea how to actually conduct your own research. Good luck.

MedicOni
07-25-2011, 18:10
What about that new ruger scout rifle.

I just saw that one last week and like the looks of it, especially since it can be ordered in a left handed variant. I wanna get one :)

JHorner_G17C
07-25-2011, 18:21
You want an accurate, compact, .308, SHTF gun for less than $1500? Well excuse me for sounding kinda like an A-hole, (I think :cool: ) but this wasnt the first thing you thought of?



http://www.hkparts.net/shop/pc/catalog/HKRPTR007-5.jpg



:tongueout:



But in all seriousness, my good friend Graham just got one of these a few weeks ago and we took it to the range on Sat. I was VERY impressed. Sub-fist size groups all day long out to 300m with no optic..... And no stock... Took a little getting used to at first.(as any .308 "pistol" will) Rifle plates at 250m and beyond were no problem at all.

Sheepdog689
02-25-2012, 19:17
X2 on the PTR91. I've got a KC that rides in my patrol car on a daily basis. You can buy magazines for about $2 each. Mine is a 2011 build so it's got the newer flute cut. Takes any ammo I feed it including tar sealed, steel case and everything in between. I purposely mixed different brands and bullet weight ammo in several magazines and it never slowed down....went bang every time I pulled the trigger. It's not a "shoot the nuts off a chipmunk at 400 yards" rifle but you can make consistent headshots at 200 yards with no problem.
http://www.ptr91.com/uploaded_files/rifles/i_f5be59da0ab63f6e8fb07557fa2422b8i_d855bc984b7d0c15262d8d80f1e5a6ffi_41bd99d0264b8c3b9cdaf6a4674d42 a8PTR-91KC.png

The standard KC will run you about $1000 or so.

If you've really got the itch to go full mall ninja, for a couple thousand you can have this....MSG91SS
http://www.ptr91.com/uploaded_files/rifles/i_227f8f1cdebbfe49bf5c6211f7e02bf9Рисунок7.png

Or, you can usually find a GI model for less than $1000.
http://www.ptr91.com/uploaded_files/rifles/i_e9fd9b6a0f58ceb513f7683a3f72eb12PTR-91-G.I..png

BFN
02-25-2012, 20:03
When the SHTF, I will grap my Marlin 45-70 CB 9 shot. Ammo is expensive unless you reload. Buffalo Bore 405 gr @ 2000 FPS. Loads of fun.

cowboy1964
02-25-2012, 22:25
Springfield SOCOM II is interesting.

SOCOM 16 M1-A - YouTube

cowboy1964
02-25-2012, 22:28
IF the S really H's the F around here and you don't have a helicopter you are walking out.

Which is why the .223/5.56 and 9mm are great choices.