O.S. Choices [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Linux3
07-04-2011, 21:30
Just from the casual reading and commenting in Tech Talk it appears to me that we have a higher than average number of Linux and Mac users.

Maybe just because Linux users are usually more skilled (strike that, more experienced) so they answer more questions?
More creative people so more Mac users?
People who shoot are more daring or open to new ideas?

I could be totally wet but I wish I could set up a poll.
Windows User;
Apple Mac User;
Linux User;
'D' none of the above;

By the by, I'm a Linux and Solaris user so that's why the option 'D'.

IndyGunFreak
07-04-2011, 23:14
I only use Windows. What is this Linux, and Solaris you speak of? Does it have a Start Menu? Is there Antivirus and Malware programs available for it? How much do they cost? ;)

I only run Linux here... various forms.. but I have a small XP install inside Virtualbox that I occasionally boot to sync some media players (Zunes, Ipods, etc.)

HotRoderX
07-04-2011, 23:16
I mainly use Windows 7 for the simple fact I am a gamer. Other wise I find linux to do just about everything windows does but better except play my games :steamed:

Pierre!
07-04-2011, 23:21
OS/2 wasn't a choice... and I don't understand why, but okay...:steamed:

:rofl:

Windows
Mac
Linux

I used to be much stronger in Linux, but the learning curve was kicking my butt when Windows feeds my family.

Mac is much better after you BootCamp it to Windows 7...

That's me....

Taykaim
07-04-2011, 23:37
I make my living as a Solaris guy, so I'll count that even though I haven't powered up my sun boxes for years.

Solaris, hundreds of servers at work
Linux Red Hat at work Fedora/Ubuntu/Debian/SuSe for home use and training up family and friends. uClinux, LOAF, ETLinux for various home automation projects.
Mac OSX 10.5 on a work issued laptop that was never given a purpose, so now is simply a testbed for osx toys and paralells.
Windows XP home media server Boxee host. And client A issued laptop
Windows Vista the sad work issued laptop.
Windows 7 for those rare times when I have a moment to play a game.

Most of them are obsolete in the mainstream computer sense, but they provide useful services to me and family, as well as help use track ROI on various energy related projects I do.

JimmyN
07-05-2011, 08:14
I only use Windows. What is this Linux, and Solaris you speak of?

Those are the ones where you type commands into a prompt line. And spelling, spacing, and punctuation have to be exact.... what a pain.:supergrin:


I use Windows and BSD UNIX running a gnome desktop. I have KDE installed as well and can pick either, but I prefer gnome.

I use Windows because everyone in the company uses Windows and some of our software only runs on Windows, so it's a necessary evil. Plus I do like gaming and simulators. A 62 year old doesn't fall into the normal demographic for gaming, but I am what I am.

All of my email and most of my web surfing is done on the UNIX system since viral infections are not a concern, no monthly security updates, and it's pretty much unstoppable. I can't afford for my email or server access to be down, even for a little while, because some software crashed the system or I've installed a new program and now Windows can't find my LAN.

It's almost impossible to crash or lock up a UNIX system, the kernel is protected and keeps marching on so you just hit an "F" key to open another terminal, kill the errant process, and have another go at it if your first attempt didn't turn out well. Plus I do all my webserver maintenance, script writing/editing, image editing and other stuff on my UNIX box. So I use both Windows and UNIX about equally.

Getting back to the OP's original question, after subjecting you to all my pointless drivel, I'd say that *NIX folks (of any flavor) are responsive to questions and problems because they are more accustomed to both giving and receiving help through internet forums. There is little or no tech support, or hotline to call, so they turn to other users for solutions and are quick to help others when they have a problem. I think they tend to gravitate toward tech forums where even if they can't help they will invariably learn something new if they hang around. I've been working with computers for over 20 years and I'm still learning.

Ralff
07-05-2011, 08:54
Right now Ubuntu/WinXP. I'm determined to make my computer last at least another year. :) Once I built my new monster it will be Win7 and Ubuntu.

I may not even bother with Win7 if I can get my games to run smoothly on Ubuntu.

gemeinschaft
07-05-2011, 11:00
I use all sorts of platforms.

At work = Windows 7
At home = Linux
Of the flavors of Linux that I like, Ubuntu and Lubuntu.

My GF has a Mac, so I have to support that as well.

I set my mom's PC up with Ubuntu and placed a couple shortcuts on her desktop for Web and E-mail access... I haven't had to go to her house and fix anything since.

Linux3
07-05-2011, 12:22
I use all sorts of platforms.

I set my mom's PC up with Ubuntu and placed a couple shortcuts on her desktop for Web and E-mail access... I haven't had to go to her house and fix anything since.
I wrote a little app for my parent's Ubuntu system called 'Ask Your Son' with an icon on the desktop.

If they click this it gets the IP address and sends me an email. I can then ssh into the box as me and fix most anything. They seldom have any problems except lost files, well they think they lost me, and permissions.

gemeinschaft
07-05-2011, 12:49
I wrote a little app for my parent's Ubuntu system called 'Ask Your Son' with an icon on the desktop.

If they click this it gets the IP address and sends me an email. I can then ssh into the box as me and fix most anything. They seldom have any problems except lost files, well they think they lost me, and permissions.

I like it.

I did something similar, I put an applet in the panel at the top in the middle of the screen for TeamViewer.

I just tell my mom to click the Blue Button and tell me what Session # and PW.

Luckily, the only things that I have to help her with involve how to save pictures to a folder, etc...

Ogreon
07-05-2011, 14:08
Windows 7. I've never had a problem that I couldn't fix with any variant of Windows. A few crashes with XP, none with 7 at this point. Never been trashed by a virus or other malware. (I don't go to porn or warez sites. I tend not to click on stuff willy-nilly. I tend to roam with script disabled.)

I've tried Ubuntu Linux and haven't been as happy with it. I put the last release on a usb key and had various problems. Some things wouldn't run after entering the "sudo" command and entering the password. When I updated the kernel the thing stopped booting.

I thought about reverting to the previous kernel, but lacked the motivation to do so. I'm sure that a little tinkering would have fixed the problems, but Windows is working without the tinkering. Tinkering can be fun and educational, but I have other problems at the moment. I'll probably try again with the next release.

I'm an experienced computer user (DOS, Windows 3.1 and up, OS2, Amiga, Commodore 64, PET, Apple 2, Timex Sinclair [with the 16K upgrade], TRS 80 and a few more. Ubuntu is supposed to be the most user friendly Linux. My conclusion is that Linux is not yet ready to be a mainstream operating system.

Linux is free, but the $100 for Windows every 3-7 years isn't going to break too many people. ($49 if you bought the early release of 7, I think you can get it for $29 if you have a .edu email address.)

IndyGunFreak
07-05-2011, 14:43
Linux not ready, bla bla bla.

Linux is perfectly ready, it just has a very steep learning curve. Ubuntu would not be as popular as it is if it was "not ready". If you won't commit to learning the OS, then really, you are better off sticking w/ Windows.

I've been virtually Windows free for several years, and have no intention of going back to Windows.. I say virtually, because I have a zune, and the only way you can sync that is w/ Windows... so I keep XP in Vbox to sync my Zune.

Green_Manelishi
07-05-2011, 15:21
I gots:

Windows 7
Windows Vista
Windows XP
Ubuntu
Fedora (ona "stick")
OS X
Access to Gentoo
Access to VMS

I've used:

MS-DOS
AppleDOS
AOS/CLI
DOS/VSE
RSTS
RedHat

Ogreon
07-05-2011, 16:30
Linux not ready, bla bla bla.

Linux is perfectly ready, it just has a very steep learning curve. Ubuntu would not be as popular as it is if it was "not ready". If you won't commit to learning the OS, then really, you are better off sticking w/ Windows.

I've been virtually Windows free for several years, and have no intention of going back to Windows.. I say virtually, because I have a zune, and the only way you can sync that is w/ Windows... so I keep XP in Vbox to sync my Zune.

Linux is ready for you. Linux is ready for many people. Linux is not ready for the mainstream, despite the claims of many.

I enjoy tinkering with computers. If I didn't have other problems taking up my time, I would be tinkering with Linux now. The mainstream will not, indeed should not, have to commit to learning the OS. A mainstream OS should meet folks where they are.

Most people don't enjoy tinkering with their computers, cars, or plumbing.

"It's a great car, if you'll learn how to fix it yourself." This means that it is not a great car for most people.

IndyGunFreak
07-05-2011, 16:53
Linux is ready for you. Linux is ready for many people. Linux is not ready for the mainstream, despite the claims of many.

I enjoy tinkering with computers. If I didn't have other problems taking up my time, I would be tinkering with Linux now. The mainstream will not, indeed should not, have to commit to learning the OS. A mainstream OS should meet folks where they are.

Most people don't enjoy tinkering with their computers, cars, or plumbing.

"It's a great car, if you'll learn how to fix it yourself." This means that it is not a great car for most people.

It's not "tinkering"... You have to relearn to use your computer, which many people do not have the patience for. My PC's/Laptops that I install Linux on, are all pretty much "Set it and forget it"... I don't "tinker" with them at all except after first installing. Even then, thats simply disabling things I don't need, enabling things I need, etc. No more than I would do w/ a Windows box.

GIockGuy24
07-05-2011, 16:57
Try openSuse Linux. It has a lot of money and a big company (Novell) behind it. No Linux knowledge is required. It originally started in Germany and it's jokingly referred to as the "Mac of Linux" in Germany because it's so easy to use.

Libre Office is based on Novell's enhanced version of OpenOffice. Novell donated much, but not all, of their code for it to open source.

GIockGuy24
07-05-2011, 17:04
I mostly use Scientific Linux because it's about as close as I can get to Red Hat Linux for free. I installed Ubuntu netbook 10.04 on my mother's netbook and it works well and I'm worried moving to a newer version might not go as well and it still gets updates for now.

Pierre!
07-05-2011, 17:11
Try openSuse Linux. It has a lot of money and a big company (Novell) behind it. No Linux knowledge is required. It originally started in Germany and it's jokingly referred to as the "Mac of Linux" in Germany because it's so easy to use.

Libre Office is based on Novell's enhanced version of OpenOffice. Novell donated much, but not all, of their code for it to open source.

Good Stuff - I have openSuse as my 'goto' Linux. It always patches, and always works.

I will have to check out Libre Office in my spare time (next life?) :supergrin:

Ogreon
07-05-2011, 19:45
It's not "tinkering"... You have to relearn to use your computer, which many people do not have the patience for. My PC's/Laptops that I install Linux on, are all pretty much "Set it and forget it"... I don't "tinker" with them at all except after first installing. Even then, thats simply disabling things I don't need, enabling things I need, etc. No more than I would do w/ a Windows box.

My installation had several problems from the beginning and stopped booting. Thus requiring tinkering. Had it been "Set it and forget it", I would currently be using it. I have the time to learn some new things, but not to fix problems.

I like the security philosophy behind Linux. Considering, though, how many complaints there have been since Windows started asking users to click a button to allow programs to run and make changes, I doubt that most people would be willing to use a command line and enter a password.

Mainstream means "most people" - "the average Joe". My experience with Ubuntu Linux suggests that it is not there. Ferraris are not mainstream either, it doesn't make them bad cars.

Ogreon
07-05-2011, 19:46
Try openSuse Linux. It has a lot of money and a big company (Novell) behind it. No Linux knowledge is required. It originally started in Germany and it's jokingly referred to as the "Mac of Linux" in Germany because it's so easy to use.

Libre Office is based on Novell's enhanced version of OpenOffice. Novell donated much, but not all, of their code for it to open source.

Thank you. I will give it a try.

Linux3
07-05-2011, 20:40
Linux is ready for you. Linux is ready for many people. Linux is not ready for the mainstream, despite the claims of many.
I enjoy tinkering with computers. If I didn't have other problems taking up my time, I would be tinkering with Linux now. The mainstream will not, indeed should not, have to commit to learning the OS. A mainstream OS should meet folks where they are.
Most people don't enjoy tinkering with their computers, cars, or plumbing.
"It's a great car, if you'll learn how to fix it yourself." This means that it is not a great car for most people.
I have installed Linux on many, many people's systems and it doesn't require any tinkering. It's more stable and trouble free than Windows.

The major difference is that Windows, because of MS marketing, comes pre-installed and Linux doesn't.

Trust me, give a novice user a Ubuntu disk and an OS 7 disk and they will get Ubuntu running faster and with less pain.

Look at all the reports here of viruses, trojan horses and just plain driver issues. Ya don't see that with Linux!
You don't see 'My Browser only goes to porn sites' my email is being hacked, my mouse no longer works, my screen rez is distorted and on and on.
Windows comes pre-installed and that's the only reason it's used so much.

I mean, really, people have to go through the trouble of wiping out an OS they PAID for and learning something else.... And still Linus grows.

Linux3
07-05-2011, 20:41
By the way, I didn't want to start a flame war.
I was just interested in what I was seeing.
If you feel the need to defend a particular choice, well good for you but that was not my intent.

gemeinschaft
07-05-2011, 22:26
I strike a deal with people that want to switch to Ubuntu or some other flavor.

If they install it, I will help guide them.

If they want me to install it, I set it up to automatically log-in and never prompt for a password. That way, they won't tinker with it and kill my installation. LOL

wct097
07-06-2011, 00:34
I own a Mac because I think the 2011 Macbook Pro's are some of the best machines on the market. The OS leaves a bit to be desired, but it's pretty and familiar as I also run several Ubuntu boxes and have toyed with various flavors of Linux for the better part of a decade. I made it my personal mission to do as much work with OS X as I could. Alas, I live in the real world, so I also still use Windows.

IMHO, Windows 7 > OS X > Ubuntu.

I've probably used Macs more than anything, but professionally have been a Windows person, and privately use Linux for home server stuff & pen testing.

wct097
07-06-2011, 01:00
Maybe just because Linux users are usually more skilled (strike that, more experienced) so they answer more questions?
More creative people so more Mac users?
People who shoot are more daring or open to new ideas?


I really dislike stereotypes. I know plenty of dip****s that play with Linux, and have met an equal number of loser Mac users that are so non-creative that they can't think of something better to do than sit around coffee shops making iTunes play lists sipping frou-frou coffee based drinks.

I tend to find people vehemently opposed to one OS and vocal proponents of another OS to be substantially short sighted. Furthermore, anyone that uses technology to define themselves, is an absolute idiot in my book. (not meant as an insult towards the OP, though I could see it being taken that way)

I'm comfortable on a number of operating systems. OS X, various flavors of Linux, Windows, OS400, Android, and probably some old crap that I can't even remember. I actively develop software on both the Windows & Android platform (.Net & Java), and have over a decade of experience developing on mainframe (OS400/RPG/COBOL/etc) systems. I have an appreciation for the strengths of every platform I've ever used. I don't, however, ignore the flaws that every platform inherently has.

Linux is ready for you. Linux is ready for many people. Linux is not ready for the mainstream, despite the claims of many.

While I may not disagree with you in the context that you intended, I'd have to say that millions of Android users would disagree, as Android is based on the Linux kernel, which makes it as much Linux as you can get when you take Linux and roll your own.

Ogreon
07-06-2011, 20:01
I have installed Linux on many, many people's systems and it doesn't require any tinkering. It's more stable and trouble free than Windows.

The major difference is that Windows, because of MS marketing, comes pre-installed and Linux doesn't.

Trust me, give a novice user a Ubuntu disk and an OS 7 disk and they will get Ubuntu running faster and with less pain.


An important comparison that I forgot to list... Every version of Windows (except 3.1) has been installed by me. The only difference for Ubuntu, was that Ubuntu was downloaded as an iso first.

I found the installation not to be as easy.
- I had to pick from a plethora of file systems (none explained)
- I had to set up a partition for what seemed to be the Linux version of a swapfile (the only help given was to tell me that I hadn't done it and might want to)
- The only part that was easier was not having to enter the validation key

Firefox vs. Internet Explorer has the same handicap (pre-installation) as Linux vs. Windows. Firefox is remarkably close to IE (Firefox and Chrome together may outnumber IE), yet this is not the case for Linux. I suspect that if Linux were as easy to use as Firefox, it would be in a similar position.

If Ubuntu had worked, I would be using it now. I have burned the openSUSE iso and will give it a try. I will have no problem with skipping future versions of Windows if I find a version of Linux that makes it redundant.

captainstormy
07-06-2011, 20:20
I'm a huge fan of Linux myself. However I will agree that Linux is not ready to be a mainstream OS. Also unlike most Linux fans, I doubt it ever will be.

The reason to me, is lack of hardware support. Pretty much all hardware is designed to work nicely with Windows, Most of it these days works nicely with Mac as well. Some of it works nicely with Linux right away, some of it can be made to be but a lot of it never will.

Aside from that, I do agree that if anyone wants to learn Linux they can. However, most people take a 5 minute look around it and decide they don't like it because it isn't what they are used to.

I like to compare it to driving a car in the US vs Europe. Its the same thing, but it looks a lot different when your on the other side of the car and road.

I started using Linux on Slack Ware a bunch of years ago. That was when I was really into it. Now I like distributions that are more ready for use out of the box. Currently I'm trying out Mint 11, but OpenSuse is on my to do list.

gemeinschaft
07-06-2011, 20:24
I really dislike stereotypes. I know plenty of dip****s that play with Linux, and have met an equal number of loser Mac users that are so non-creative that they can't think of something better to do than sit around coffee shops making iTunes play lists sipping frou-frou coffee based drinks.

I tend to find people vehemently opposed to one OS and vocal proponents of another OS to be substantially short sighted. Furthermore, anyone that uses technology to define themselves, is an absolute idiot in my book. (not meant as an insult towards the OP, though I could see it being taken that way)

I'm comfortable on a number of operating systems. OS X, various flavors of Linux, Windows, OS400, Android, and probably some old crap that I can't even remember. I actively develop software on both the Windows & Android platform (.Net & Java), and have over a decade of experience developing on mainframe (OS400/RPG/COBOL/etc) systems. I have an appreciation for the strengths of every platform I've ever used. I don't, however, ignore the flaws that every platform inherently has.
.


I like having options. I have Windows 7, Mac OS X, Lubuntu and Ubuntu machines running in my house. As the resident IT guy for the family, i have to support all of them. LOL

Ogreon
07-06-2011, 20:34
I like having options. I have Windows 7, Mac OS X, Lubuntu and Ubuntu machines running in my house. As the resident IT guy for the family, i have to support all of them. LOL

As long as you don't have to support all the people...

It's a good thing that I didn't point out why Mac is evil and is destroying the world.

wct097
07-08-2011, 01:09
I like having options. I have Windows 7, Mac OS X, Lubuntu and Ubuntu machines running in my house. As the resident IT guy for the family, i have to support all of them. LOL

Any decent IT guy should be comfortable supporting just about anything. The commands and menus may differ, but the basic ideas are the same. Network adapters work the same way on a Linux box, Mac, Windows PC, AS400, or Unix machine. Many other things translate as well.

tcruse
07-10-2011, 20:00
Stray comments:

1 win 7 64 bit is probably the best client os for doing production work
2 if you want to play with some flavor of Linux, just run it in a win 7 virtual machine
3 if you need or want a specialize application, then it will most likely be on win 7 first
4 Starting with NT windows kernel is based/implementation/port of Unix. The desktop manager is just different than the Unix X desktop managers. Mainly because until WPF the display logic was not resolution independent.
5 if you want to create software, Windows 64 bit has the best tools
6 if you want a database SQL server is very reasonable and probably better than anything else. The express edition is free
7 MS provides a good anti-virus program Security Esenntials for free, better than Norton or Mac Afee in my opinion.

Linux3
07-11-2011, 15:40
Stray comments:

1 win 7 64 bit is probably the best client os for doing production work
2 if you want to play with some flavor of Linux, just run it in a win 7 virtual machine
3 if you need or want a specialize application, then it will most likely be on win 7 first
4 Starting with NT windows kernel is based/implementation/port of Unix. The desktop manager is just different than the Unix X desktop managers. Mainly because until WPF the display logic was not resolution independent.
5 if you want to create software, Windows 64 bit has the best tools
6 if you want a database SQL server is very reasonable and probably better than anything else. The express edition is free
7 MS provides a good anti-virus program Security Esenntials for free, better than Norton or Mac Afee in my opinion.
Sigh, I don't even know where to begin.
Oh, never mind.

Green_Manelishi
07-11-2011, 16:21
Sigh, I don't even know where to begin.
Oh, never mind.

I am glad you said it. I almost did but did not know where to begin. Sounds a MS fanboy to me.

IndyGunFreak
07-11-2011, 18:11
Stray comments:

1 win 7 64 bit is probably the best client os for doing production work
2 if you want to play with some flavor of Linux, just run it in a win 7 virtual machine
3 if you need or want a specialize application, then it will most likely be on win 7 first
4 Starting with NT windows kernel is based/implementation/port of Unix. The desktop manager is just different than the Unix X desktop managers. Mainly because until WPF the display logic was not resolution independent.
5 if you want to create software, Windows 64 bit has the best tools
6 if you want a database SQL server is very reasonable and probably better than anything else. The express edition is free
7 MS provides a good anti-virus program Security Esenntials for free, better than Norton or Mac Afee in my opinion.

Sigh, I don't even know where to begin.
Oh, never mind.

Then let me give you a start... That list is ridiculous. :)

handyman
07-11-2011, 19:00
Windows 7 and XP, don't like vista.

CitizenOfDreams
07-11-2011, 19:27
Windows user here. Tried different linuxes (linuses? linuxen?) over the years, played with them, didn't see anything they would do for me.

wct097
07-12-2011, 04:53
Stray comments:

1 win 7 64 bit is probably the best client os for doing production work
2 if you want to play with some flavor of Linux, just run it in a win 7 virtual machine
3 if you need or want a specialize application, then it will most likely be on win 7 first
4 Starting with NT windows kernel is based/implementation/port of Unix. The desktop manager is just different than the Unix X desktop managers. Mainly because until WPF the display logic was not resolution independent.
5 if you want to create software, Windows 64 bit has the best tools
6 if you want a database SQL server is very reasonable and probably better than anything else. The express edition is free
7 MS provides a good anti-virus program Security Esenntials for free, better than Norton or Mac Afee in my opinion.

Then let me give you a start... That list is ridiculous. :)

Not really. Some opinion, but unless you're rolling your own apps, there really isn't a lot of reason to deny 1, 3, 5, and 6. Reality is that most software is available on Windows, and Windows alone. 2 is perfectly reasonable. Dunno about 4. 7 is true, but irrelevant. 6 is absolutely true. I'd rather use SQL server than MySQL or Oracle any day. The latter is obviously powerful, but MS SQL is a pretty solid database.

Green_Manelishi
07-12-2011, 13:22
Not really. Some opinion, but unless you're rolling your own apps, there really isn't a lot of reason to deny 1, 3, 5, and 6. Reality is that most software is available on Windows, and Windows alone. 2 is perfectly reasonable. Dunno about 4. 7 is true, but irrelevant. 6 is absolutely true. I'd rather use SQL server than MySQL or Oracle any day. The latter is obviously powerful, but MS SQL is a pretty solid database.

If I want assurance the application won't blow chunks when it tries to open a file of 51,200,000,0000 bytes (each variable length record being more than 10000 characters in length) I am not likely to code it in "Visual" anything running on a Windoze machine.

What is a "pretty solid" database? How often do "pretty solid" databases crash?

When I want to create software all I need is an editor.

I have three letters for you to consider: V.M.S.

wct097
07-12-2011, 20:34
If I want assurance the application won't blow chunks when it tries to open a file of 51,200,000,0000 bytes (each variable length record being more than 10000 characters in length) I am not likely to code it in "Visual" anything running on a Windoze machine.

Maybe you should brush up on your tech and step away from the 90's. Current MS SQL servers can have a single variable length column up to
2,147,483,647 bytes (1,073,741,823 characters for varchar).

I "get" the snubbing of "visual" tools. I find it to be a bit of a childish display of elitism, but whatever. It's not like I'm a stranger to them. I can develop in RPG on an AS400 almost as quickly as I can in Visual Studio 2010, or Eclipse. Maybe my problem is that I'm competent on multiple platforms, so I don't have to look down my nose at people that use systems I'm not comfortable with.


What is a "pretty solid" database? How often do "pretty solid" databases crash?

To my knowledge, we've never had a SQL server crash in the 9 years I've been with my employer. Again, databases have come a long way since the 90's.


When I want to create software all I need is an editor.

Want a cookie? I've probably written more code in editors than using visual tools, but at least I'm comfortable enough in both disciplines to accept that Windows is a fine OS with good tools.


I have three letters for you to consider: V.M.S.

I suppose we should be impressed.

Green_Manelishi
07-13-2011, 14:50
Maybe you should brush up on your tech and step away from the 90's. Current MS SQL servers can have a single variable length column up to
2,147,483,647 bytes (1,073,741,823 characters for varchar).

I "get" the snubbing of "visual" tools. I find it to be a bit of a childish display of elitism, but whatever. It's not like I'm a stranger to them. I can develop in RPG on an AS400 almost as quickly as I can in Visual Studio 2010, or Eclipse. Maybe my problem is that I'm competent on multiple platforms, so I don't have to look down my nose at people that use systems I'm not comfortable with.

To my knowledge, we've never had a SQL server crash in the 9 years I've been with my employer. Again, databases have come a long way since the 90's.

Want a cookie? I've probably written more code in editors than using visual tools, but at least I'm comfortable enough in both disciplines to accept that Windows is a fine OS with good tools.

I suppose we should be impressed.

My tech world pre, and post, dates the 90s.

I don't see it as a problem to be competent on platforms other than Windoze. I am not looking down at, nor am I uncomfortable with Windoze or the Vizual thang. It's simply that I don't believe they are the proper tool for every application; perhaps because I worked with too many to whom the entire world began and ended with VB.

I don't eat cookies, thanks. But a wee dram of Airigh nam Beist will be appreciated.

Windoze is a fine OS? It might be if MS upgrades/new versions fixed existing bugs, and added functionality without re-designing the entire UI, etc.; all that does is piss off the end users and introduce new "undocumented features" that need to be patched.

No need to be impressed but VMS was everything Windoze hoped to be: user friendly, robust, reliable, secure. DEC pioneered much of what is now taken for granted.

wct097
07-14-2011, 04:57
My tech world pre, and post, dates the 90s.

I don't see it as a problem to be competent on platforms other than Windoze. I am not looking down at, nor am I uncomfortable with Windoze or the Vizual thang. It's simply that I don't believe they are the proper tool for every application; perhaps because I worked with too many to whom the entire world began and ended with VB.

I don't eat cookies, thanks. But a wee dram of Airigh nam Beist will be appreciated.

Windoze is a fine OS? It might be if MS upgrades/new versions fixed existing bugs, and added functionality without re-designing the entire UI, etc.; all that does is piss off the end users and introduce new "undocumented features" that need to be patched.

No need to be impressed but VMS was everything Windoze hoped to be: user friendly, robust, reliable, secure. DEC pioneered much of what is now taken for granted.

I loathe every minute I'm forced to code in VB. That said, it has it's purposes, and I maintain that you really need to brush up on the latest OS and development trends. Windows 7, Server 2008, SQL 2008, and Visual Studio 2010 are excellent.

I agree that nothing is best tool for every application, but to categorically exclude Windows and "Visual" development tools is ridiculous.

Green_Manelishi
07-15-2011, 13:38
I loathe every minute I'm forced to code in VB. That said, it has it's purposes, and I maintain that you really need to brush up on the latest OS and development trends. Windows 7, Server 2008, SQL 2008, and Visual Studio 2010 are excellent.

I agree that nothing is best tool for every application, but to categorically exclude Windows and "Visual" development tools is ridiculous.

I know a person (not myself) who loathes C, and anything "ix". Not sure why.

I own some of the Visual stuff.

Therefore I don't categorically exclude Windows and Visual devo tools.

boomhower
07-16-2011, 10:36
I use Windows 7 on my and my wifes notebook. I use Windows Home Server for my server. My next notebook may very well be a Macbook. I have fallen in love with my iPad and my next phone will be an iPhone so I may as well complete the ecosystem. I never had them before because of Windows apps I use but boot camp has made that a non-issue. (that and getting last years hardware for next years prices but CPU's have advanced to the point that for my uses it's not a huge deal)