Friend Denied Permit [Archive] - Glock Talk

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nastytrigger
07-05-2011, 09:00
A friend of mine that I'm helping learn to shoot bought four pistols in the last three months. Bought holsters for all, mag pouches, etc. He already sent his paperwork off for a license and I just learned that he was denied a carry permit. He is going to challenge it. He told me it was something that occurred back in college. Whatever he did isn't bad enough to buy a gun, but he can't carry?

Anyone know if anyone has ever challenged and won a denied carry permit?

NC Bullseye
07-05-2011, 09:42
Not knowing the charges to answer your question, yes people have challenged permit denials and won. They have also lost.

nastytrigger
07-05-2011, 09:59
Not knowing the charges to answer your question, yes people have challenged permit denials and won. They have also lost.

Public nudity on a bet. Wouldn't think that would deny someone 30+ years later.

cowboywannabe
07-05-2011, 10:07
indiana is a shall issue state, if he can buy.own a gun, he can carry one....puzzled to know why his permit was denied....

glock_19guy1983
07-05-2011, 10:09
indiana is a shall issue state, if he can buy.own a gun, he can carry one....puzzled to know why his permit was denied....

Like the dude said for showing off his "GUN" in college:rofl:

Adjuster
07-05-2011, 10:11
Public nudity may have gotten him a sex offender listing.

Rakkasan
07-05-2011, 10:12
Public nudity on a bet. Wouldn't think that would deny someone 30+ years later.

It wouldn't. If he challenges it and loses, there's probably something your friend isn't telling you.

Veedubklown
07-05-2011, 10:13
Don't see why they wouldn't give him a permit, the whole town already knows what he's packin, at least let him put it under some clothes!

Gunshine
07-05-2011, 10:14
Public nudity may have gotten him a sex offender listing.

This. In many states this is the case.

cowboywannabe
07-05-2011, 10:32
Public nudity may have gotten him a sex offender listing.

how could he have passed the insta-check when he bought guns in the recent past?

Adjuster
07-05-2011, 10:33
how could he have passed the insta-check when he bought guns in the recent past?

Good point.

Toorop
07-05-2011, 10:42
I don't believe the original poster said his buddy had been charged with public nudity or anything of the sort.

Either way I am guessing that there is someone out there with the same name or a very similar one and a much more felonious past. I am willing to bet that it is probably a mistake unless there is something he is hiding. But it seems silly to deny him the ability to carry a gun but allow him to purchase one.

nastytrigger
07-05-2011, 10:49
I think I know what happened. He's very ashamed and isn't telling me much. He said he thought it was off his record. I think he said no to disclosing past offenses and that red flagged it when they ran his record noticing he lied about priors. Make sense?

But, just thought about this, what if he said no on his paperwork while buying the gun. Would that catch up to him even if the phone check cleared him?

Anyway, I'm meeting him after work at the range. I'll hear all about it. Indy has a new Transport Law that's coming in handy for him.

NC Bullseye
07-05-2011, 11:26
Just another case of where concealed carry would have solved the problem.

X-Concealment
07-05-2011, 11:33
I think I know what happened. He's very ashamed and isn't telling me much. He said he thought it was off his record. I think he said no to disclosing past offenses and that red flagged it when they ran his record noticing he lied about priors. Make sense?

But, just thought about this, what if he said no on his paperwork while buying the gun. Would that catch up to him even if the phone check cleared him?

Anyway, I'm meeting him after work at the range. I'll hear all about it. Indy has a new Transport Law that's coming in handy for him.

Just a thought, firearm purchasing backgroud checks NCIS, not sure if each states dept check the same database when processing the CCW applications. So if your frined's previous offense was only entered in the State's database but not the NCIS, he won't have problem purchasing a gun but will have problem getting approved for a permit. Tell him to get a Florida non resident license, then he can carry.

nastytrigger
07-06-2011, 06:34
Yup. He lied putting no on the permit form saying he's never had any prior offenses. That denied him. He was told it was removed from his record, but I would think anything criminal follows everyone. He's going to go in front of a judge soon to appeal.

He went streaking back in the early 80's. Neighbors called the cops. He won the bet though...

Louisville Glocker
07-06-2011, 06:42
Yup. He lied putting no on the permit form saying he's never had any prior offenses. That denied him. He was told it was removed from his record, but I would think anything criminal follows everyone. He's going to go in front of a judge soon to appeal.

He went streaking back in the early 80's. Neighbors called the cops. He won the bet though...

He won the bet, but he's still paying the price...

AH.74
07-06-2011, 06:43
Lying on the application form itself could be an offense. It was rather unwise to do so and the judge may have an issue with that.

"He was told" it was removed? Unless you go through the process to have something expunged, things are not just removed. And, don't trust what people tell you. Find out for sure before lying.

dregotglock
07-06-2011, 08:42
It is my experience that most people do not fully disclose full details relating to criminal charges - friends or not.

Call it shame, pride, or just ignorance (I thought it was off.... or I didnt know it was a felony charge...)

a lie on a licensing document about criminal history is bad juju

poodleshooter1
07-06-2011, 08:49
Streaking makes you a sex offender, and ghetto families buying lobster and steak by the cart using food stamps. Has it really come to this?

SPIN2010
07-06-2011, 08:55
Streaking makes you a sex offender, and ghetto families buying lobster and steak by the cart using food stamps. Has it really come to this?

Yes, it has.

I went to the "Job & Family Services" office asking if I could do something (i.e. job, because I have a couple of degrees and can teach many basic subjects) and I was replied to with: Nuh, we don't hav nufin like dat. :crying:

I did ask them to repeat the answer, please. :dunno:

Electrikkoolaid
07-06-2011, 09:01
He was told it was removed from his record, but I would think anything criminal follows everyone.

Unless you're an illegal alien.

Then criminal acts are "catch and release".

B.Reid
07-06-2011, 09:42
Public nudity on a bet. Wouldn't think that would deny someone 30+ years later.

Public nudity is a sex crime in some states.

dosei
07-06-2011, 09:49
Yup. He lied putting no on the permit form saying he's never had any prior offenses. That denied him. He was told it was removed from his record, but I would think anything criminal follows everyone. He's going to go in front of a judge soon to appeal.

That is what I was guessing was the case...he lied about his past. That will get you denied every time. My instructor stressed that point quite a bit in class. He said if there is anything in your past that shows up & you didn't tell them about it, you will be denied. Even if the offense itself does not qualify for denial, the act of withholding that information does.

Donn57
07-06-2011, 09:52
Streaking makes you a sex offender, and ghetto families buying lobster and steak by the cart using food stamps. Has it really come to this?

Really. Them ghetto folks should know their place. Food stamps should only be good for ham hocks and collard greens. Right?

B.Reid
07-06-2011, 09:52
That is what I was guessing was the case...he lied about his past. That will get you denied every time. My instructor stressed that point quite a bit in class. He said if there is anything in your past that shows up & you didn't tell them about it, you will be denied. Even if the offense itself does not qualify for denial, the act of withholding that information does.

Tell him to re apply.

Donn57
07-06-2011, 09:53
I don't believe the original poster said his buddy had been charged with public nudity or anything of the sort.


Uh, yes, he did.

AH.74
07-06-2011, 11:34
Tell him to re apply.

For what purpose, without appealing? So they can see that he was just denied, and deny him again? So he can open himself up for more lost cost?

Does the fact that he lied just go away with a new application?

Indy_Guy_77
07-06-2011, 12:12
Tell him to get a Florida non resident license, then he can carry.

If you're an IN resident, you MUST have a LTCH to carry a handgun on your person aside from VERY few exceptions.

Your FL non-resident permit would allow you carry in several other states, certainly, but not Indiana if you're an Indiana resident.

-J-

Mayhem like Me
07-06-2011, 12:23
Does your state have a false swearing charge..That means he filled out a state form and swore it was accurate and sent it in, now he is going to appeal it and give tehm evidience of his false swearing???

Have your friend talk to an attorney before he causes himself some real grief.

AA#5
07-06-2011, 13:00
Yup. He lied putting no on the permit form saying he's never had any prior offenses. That denied him. He was told it was removed from his record, but I would think anything criminal follows everyone. He's going to go in front of a judge soon to appeal.

He went streaking back in the early 80's. Neighbors called the cops. He won the bet though...

Funny. Streaking is the first thing I thought of when I read your original post.

IndyGunFreak
07-06-2011, 13:03
It wouldn't. If he challenges it and loses, there's probably something your friend isn't telling you.

Exactly, ISP rarely denies permits and gets overturned.

From the gun permit app:

Have you ever been convicted of any
misdemeanor or felony violation, including DUI?

Is it a crime to lie on the app?

IndyGunFreak
07-06-2011, 13:05
Tell him to get a Florida non resident license, then he can carry.

Just another example of why following Internet advice must be done very very carefully.

IGF

nastytrigger
07-06-2011, 13:50
Does your state have a false swearing charge..That means he filled out a state form and swore it was accurate and sent it in, now he is going to appeal it and give tehm evidience of his false swearing???

Have your friend talk to an attorney before he causes himself some real grief.

To tell you the truth, I haven't filled out the CCW form in a few years thanks to Indiana's Lifetime Permit. BUT, I do remember, as does another friend, that it says something like, "I believe that the statements I have made are factual under penalty of law it is a felony." I don't remember it being a felony, but I remember it having a 'false swearing charge'.

I will recommend to my friend to speak to an attorney. I am concerned for him that this will blow up more than he wants or not go the way he wants, but I can only help him so much. Thanks for all your advice.

Batesmotel
07-06-2011, 14:02
Streaking makes you a sex offender, and ghetto families buying lobster and steak by the cart using food stamps. Has it really come to this?

Yes. Two I know of.

16 year old kid shoplifted a dirty magazine and got caught. When he turned 18 he had to register as a sex offender. Took years to get that off his record.

Married couple in there 30s. They had a skylight in the ceiling of their bedroom. Neighborhood kids rigged up a video camera on the skylight to catch her coming out of the shower. They caught her and her husband in bed. In the end the kids got busted for trespass but the couple got charged with distributing pornography to a minor. They had to register as sex offenders before the trial. (to protect the children) They won the case but went through hell to get off the list.

Bren
07-06-2011, 14:18
I think I know what happened. He's very ashamed and isn't telling me much. He said he thought it was off his record. I think he said no to disclosing past offenses and that red flagged it when they ran his record noticing he lied about priors. Make sense?

But, just thought about this, what if he said no on his paperwork while buying the gun. Would that catch up to him even if the phone check cleared him?


He wouldn't have to lie on the gun purchases, since they ask about felonies and if it was a felony conviction he wouldn't have passed the NICS check.

On the Indiana CCW application, they ask: "Have you ever been convicted of any misdemeanor or felony violation, including DUI?" That's where he may have lied.

Bren
07-06-2011, 14:19
Yes. Two I know of.

16 year old kid shoplifted a dirty magazine and got caught. When he turned 18 he had to register as a sex offender. Took years to get that off his record.

Married couple in there 30s. They had a skylight in the ceiling of their bedroom. Neighborhood kids rigged up a video camera on the skylight to catch her coming out of the shower. They caught her and her husband in bed. In the end the kids got busted for trespass but the couple got charged with distributing pornography to a minor. They had to register as sex offenders before the trial. (to protect the children) They won the case but went through hell to get off the list.

I don't believe either of those stories, so a link to a news story would help.

nastytrigger
07-06-2011, 14:47
Found out the specific wording on the application and made him aware if it:

"Any person giving false information or offering false evidence to obtain a firearm license shall be deemed guilty of a felony and upon conviction may be punished by imprisonment for five years to which may be added a fine of not more than $10,000."

IndyGunFreak
07-06-2011, 15:21
Found out the specific wording on the application and made him aware if it:

"Any person giving false information or offering false evidence to obtain a firearm license shall be deemed guilty of a felony and upon conviction may be punished by imprisonment for five years to which may be added a fine of not more than $10,000."

Holy crap...

What a dumb thing to lie about, when he knew he had a misdemeanor. I don't buy the "I forgot"... I'm 30yrs old, and I remember exactly how many times I've been put in handcuffs in my life.

nastytrigger
07-06-2011, 16:25
Holy crap...

What a dumb thing to lie about, when he knew he had a misdemeanor. I don't buy the "I forgot"... I'm 30yrs old, and I remember exactly how many times I've been put in handcuffs in my life.

He didn't think it was a lie. He thought it was off his record. 'Thought' though...

I've done all I can do for him as far as researching opinions and legalities. He's a great guy just getting back into shooting. He'd like to carry for all lawful reasons. This was 30+ years ago. I hope the judge will see it was a mistake.

AH.74
07-06-2011, 16:34
Why did he "think" it was off his record? Did he try to get it expunged, or pardoned? If he has a legitimate reason, he can at least offer something in explanation to the judge.

Otherwise he's probably not telling you the complete story.

It's not enough to think, you need to know for sure. It's not worth facing a felony charge.

voyager4520
07-06-2011, 16:41
Here in CO there's a clause in our shall-issue CCW law that says if the issuing sheriff has any reason to believe that issuing a permit could endanger either the would-be permit-holder or anyone else, the sheriff can deny the permit application. So it really comes down to opinion. If you get denied, you can appeal the decision directly to the sheriff. Once denied the second time, you can seek a judicial review. You and a representative for the sheriff's office appear before a judge. You explain why you think you should be issued the permit and why you think the sheriff's reason for denial is not sufficient, the sheriff's representative explains why issuing you a permit could pose a danger to someone. So now it's the judge's interpretation of the sheriff's opinion. If the judge rules in your favor, you get your permit and the sheriff's office pays court costs and your expenses for the judicial review. If you judge rules in favor of the sheriff's office, you pay the court costs and the legal fees/expenses of the sheriff's office.

In my county it's about $160 to apply plus whatever it costs you to get a certificate that the state recognizes affirming your ability to handle firearms safely, which could be a Hunter's Safety Class or an $80 Basic Handgun Safety Class. If you get denied the permit, you don't get that money back. If you seek judicial review and lose, you could end up owing a few thousand.

nastytrigger
07-06-2011, 16:51
Why did he "think" it was off his record? Did he try to get it expunged, or pardoned? If he has a legitimate reason, he can at least offer something in explanation to the judge.

Otherwise he's probably not telling you the complete story.

It's not enough to think, you need to know for sure. It's not worth facing a felony charge.

I understand exactly what your asking, but I don't know the answer to your question. He just told me he thought it was off. I suggested to him speaking to an attorney before the appeal since I have no clue what to do. That's why I started the question here on GT to help him the best I could so he doesn't go in unprepared.