Krag-Jørgensen rifles [Archive] - Glock Talk

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lomfs24
07-13-2011, 14:32
Looks like no one has posted here for a while. Hopefully someone is watching this board.

I have been looking at the Krag-Jørgensen rifles made around the turn of the century. And I am a little confused. Some places I see them referenced as the Krag-Jørgensen, some places I see them referenced as a Lee-Enfield some places I see them references as Springfield Krags. Are they three different rifles? Three similar rifles made by three different companies?

Where is a good place to see a good selection of these rifles? I am mostly interested in the 6.5x55 Swede caliber. Looks like that was mostly a Norwegian build in that caliber. The pop out magazine design looked kind of neat but it seems I have seen some video's where the shooter was replacing the magazine and I have seen videos where they were loading the rifle with a clip. I think I would prefer a detachable magazine but the side fold out one would be kind of nice too.

banger
07-26-2011, 09:29
I sorry, but I think you are confused.

First a Lee-Enfield is in no way, shape or form a "Krag".

Second, "Krag's" do not have a removable magazine. The magazine was integral with the rifle. It's distinguishing feature was that it protruded from the right side of the rifle and was accessed by folding down a gate to load the rifle.

lastly, understand that "Krag-Jorgensen" rifles were developed in Denmark, and later the design was sold to the U.S..

It is for this reason that one on occasion encounters a "European" caliber "Krag".

Most if not all of the rifles used by the U.S. military were produced in the "Springfield Armory" and were produced only in 30-40 caliber (as far as I know).

The rifle was the primary arm, used during the Spanish American War (aka the war of 1898).

While adaquate, it was found to be lacking when compared to the Spanish Mauser rifles.

Withing a few years of this war, the U.S. model of 1903 in 30-06 caliber was developed and the Krag's relegated to secondary use.

Over the years, many Krag's were shipped to the Philippines to be used by troops during the Moro insurrection, and later turned over to the Philippine constabulary.

Boy this it taking a long time to write. lol

Naturally, there is much more information available on the subject, but I am going to cut is short for now.

I hope this long winded answer helps.

rod727
07-26-2011, 10:38
This is no fun how about a couple of Krag pics? I dig this one out of the safe once a year or so and run a few rounds thru her.
http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj67/lsheets65/DSC_0006.jpg
http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj67/lsheets65/DSC_0001.jpg

lomfs24
07-26-2011, 10:45
Yes, I am confused. LOL! I have been doing more research and am coming up with pretty much the same thing you have mentioned. I still think that I would like to get a Krag-Jorgensen rifle just for the historical factor. I would still like to locate a 6.5x55 Swede rifle in that make. They seem to have been the Norwegian Krags that came in this caliber. Again, I am not sure but it appears that they were built at the Kongsberg Arms Factory in Norway. Wiki article on the Krag-Jorgensen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krag-J%C3%B8rgensen#Norwegian_Krag-J.C3.B8rgensen_rifles).

However, I have also discovered that many of the rifles that I have seen used in competition in Europe were actually Sauer rifles and not Krag's or Enfields at all. More along the lines of a Sauer 200STR model. However, perhaps older rifles. Which I believe moves us out of the Military Surplus rifle category.

lomfs24
07-26-2011, 10:48
Rod, that is a nice looking rifle. Question? How is the bolt cocked on these rifles? Is it cocked when you lift it or does it cock as you push the bolt forward and close it?

banger
07-26-2011, 14:13
First allow me to apologize, you are correct...It was in fact designed in Norway.

My misstatement comes from the fact that Denmark (among others) bought some to the rifles. This along with the memory that the girl dated at the time who had a Krag was Danish.

To answer you question, the rifle cocks on closing.

Be aware that the U.S. Krags were fine rifles and a pleasure to use, and fire.

If there was any weakness, it was that the rifle served for a very short period of time, simply because time quickly passed it by.

The Krag was at it's max. for the 30-40 cal cartridge (aka .30 U.S.). Following the war with Spain, much of Europe was in the midst of upgrading their arms to fire more potent and flat shooting rounds.

Due largly to the desire to adopt the .30-06 by the U.S. the rifle was found wanting and not entirely able to accept the higher working pressures.

Be aware that the Krag used a single locking lug on it's bolt head. While sufficient for the .30-40, it did not allow for the higher pressure of the '06 round.

One interesting fact concerning Krags comes to mind.

Following WWII, it was much the rage to "customize" rifles into sporters. With this trend in full bloom, it has become somewhat difficult to find an unmolested military issue Krag.

Over the years, I have seen many Krags, but very few in full military as issue shape.

Now a bit of trivia....

Referencing the "Danish" girl I dated. As a teen in the immediate post WWII era, her father worked at the Raritan arsenal during a couple of summers.

As an employee, he was allowed to buy the Krag for $3.00 and ammunition for a penny a round.

his was a MINT condition full length rifle dated from 1896.

The worst part of the story was that he was not a "gun guy" and could not have cared less about the rifle, its storage or generally about it's condition.

rod727
07-26-2011, 14:25
Rod, that is a nice looking rifle. Question? How is the bolt cocked on these rifles? Is it cocked when you lift it or does it cock as you push the bolt forward and close it?
The gun cocks when bolt is rotated up from full battery position. A couple more pics, this one is an 1898 30-40 Krag produced at the Springfield Armory in 1901.
http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj67/lsheets65/DSC_0326.jpghttp://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj67/lsheets65/DSC_0325.jpghttp://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj67/lsheets65/DSC_0327.jpg

Butch
08-04-2011, 20:00
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0603/ButchG17/Springfield/Span-Amwar.jpg

Model 95 Mauser on top, Krag on the bottom.

The .30-40 wasn't the best round, but the Krag's biggest problem was having to reload with loose ammo, the clip used to reload the Model 95 gave it a BIG advantage over the Krag.

Butch
08-04-2011, 20:05
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0603/ButchG17/Rifles/usrifles.jpg

MrMurphy
08-10-2011, 12:49
Norway used the Krag for over 40 years and they still compete with them. It occupies the same place in their arsenal as the Springfield did for us and was in service for just as long.

S9Man
08-10-2011, 14:37
I have a 6.5x55 Krag that was made in Norway. I found it in a gun shop for $99 a few years ago. I shoot reduced reloads in it. 140gr bullet at ~1900fps IIRC. Very accurate shooter. I think I've only seen one other in all of my years of attending gun shows and shopping in gunshops.

HexHead
08-15-2011, 08:38
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The .30-40 wasn't the best round, but the Krag's biggest problem was having to reload with loose ammo, the clip used to reload the Model 95 gave it a BIG advantage over the Krag.

That loose round loading was still a huge improvement over the .45-70 Trapdoor still in use at the time. My understanding is that like the Enfield M1917 being carried by far more US troops in WWI than the Springfield 1903, many more Springfield Trapdoors were carried in the Spanish-American War than .30-40 Krags.