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madbaumer
07-17-2011, 10:26
...my youngest son it taking his Range test for his carry permit today!

Its a crying shame that we have to "Take a Test" and "Pay a Fee" (tax) to exercise our 2-A Rights!

Myke_Hart
07-17-2011, 10:34
I agree... It sucks.

But it means that you will have some reciprocity due to "the certifing test".

Congrats, you should be a good father and reward him with a celebratory gun!

I love when my father gives me guns. Nothing shows father son love like a gift of cold steel!:embarassed:

David Armstrong
07-17-2011, 10:52
...my youngest son it taking his Range test for his carry permit today!

Its a crying shame that we have to "Take a Test" and "Pay a Fee" (tax) to exercise our 2-A Rights!
Not a shame at all. Think of the millions of people who would love to be able to take a test and pay a fee to have the right to carry a firearm.

dnuggett
07-17-2011, 12:13
Not a shame at all. Think of the millions of people who would love to be able to take a test and pay a fee to have the right to carry a firearm.

Do you think it is perfectly fine to have to petition your government to exercise a right? The fact that others absolutely cannot doesn't make it a shame that we have to ask, it makes their situation deplorable relative to ours. It's still shame.

madbaumer
07-17-2011, 15:07
I agree... It sucks.

But it means that you will have some reciprocity due to "the certifing test".

Congrats, you should be a good father and reward him with a celebratory gun!

I love when my father gives me guns. Nothing shows father son love like a gift of cold steel!:embarassed:


I bought him a G-19.

David Armstrong
07-17-2011, 15:14
Do you think it is perfectly fine to have to petition your government to exercise a right? The fact that others absolutely cannot doesn't make it a shame that we have to ask, it makes their situation deplorable relative to ours. It's still shame.
You don't have to petition to exercise a right. You might have to meet certain requirements, including tests and fees, to perform a specific act in some areas. All rights are subject to some form of restriction.

dnuggett
07-17-2011, 17:43
You don't have to petition to exercise a right. You might have to meet certain requirements, including tests and fees, to perform a specific act in some areas. All rights are subject to some form of restriction.

You and I most likely have a disagreement on a basic premise- what right is granted by the Second Amendment. When you get a permit, it is just that- permission to perform an act. To get it you must petition the issuing authority to exercise your right. Let's add another layer to this. In may issue states your right to carry is granted only if nebulous undefined requirements are met. It's fully up to the issuing state and in most may issue states the issuance of permits are not uniformly applied equally to all citizens. If that isn't asking permission I don't know what is.

michael e
07-17-2011, 17:45
The fee sucks. I agree with the testing thought. I had so many people in my class that should not have had a gun, couldnt do simple things. I dont want to get hit because someone pulls a gun and dont know how to control there gun.

maxniman
07-17-2011, 17:50
kind of like having to take a driving test and pay a fee to get a license IMO. no big deal

David Armstrong
07-17-2011, 17:55
You and I most likely have a disagreement on a basic premise- what right is granted by the Second Amendment.
No, I think the disagreement is a little more basic. The Court has identified what right is granted by the 2nd Amendment, and I respect the Constitution and how it set up our government, thus I follow the Constitution rather than thinking everyone should get to decide what rights they have on their own.
When you get a permit, it is just that- permission to perform an act.
And the Court has said that getting that permit is not an infringement on your rights under the 2nd Amendment. There is nothing in the 2nd that says anything about anyone can carry anything anytime and anywhere they want. In many, if not most states, one can exercise their 2nd Amendment rights without a permit. Some folks just think their rights are far more expansive than they actually are.
To get it you must petition the issuing authority to exercise your right.
See above. You don't have to petition anyone to exercise your right. You may have to petition in order to perform certain acts that are not considered a part of that right. Again, all rights are subject to some form of restriction. Nothing new about that, it goes back to the early days of our nation.

dnuggett
07-17-2011, 20:19
No, I think the disagreement is a little more basic. The Court has identified what right is granted by the 2nd Amendment, and I respect the Constitution and how it set up our government, thus I follow the Constitution rather than thinking everyone should get to decide what rights they have on their own.

The Constitution is the core of our being as a country. I too respect the Constitution. The issue I take is not with the Constitution or the 2nd Amendment. I don't think everyone should decide what rights they have on their own, hence my membership in multiple associations. I, along with millions of others work to change what we feel is a misapplication of the 2nd Amendment across the country, both at a state and federal level. Not too dissimilar from any other action people have taken when they feel their rights have been misconstrued. As you put it so eloquently "nothing new about that, it goes back to the early days of our nation."


And the Court has said that getting that permit is not an infringement on your rights under the 2nd Amendment.

Yes that has been stated in both the Heller and McDonald cases. Again, I am aware of what the law is and what the court says. I abide by those laws and hope that everyone else would too. It is my belief however that this is a misinterpretation of the 2nd Amendment. See above.

There is nothing in the 2nd that says anything about anyone can carry anything anytime and anywhere they want.

The Second Amendment does not say where, it states bear. Where can I bear arms? It's up to the "people" to decide if we are happy with the current law and it's interpretation of our right(s) granted under the 2nd Amendment. If we are indeed not happy then it is up to us to work through the system the Constitution has set up. It is my belief that some state and local governments do not apply the law uniformly for all their respective citizens and other states and localities flat out deny the rights granted under the Second Amendment. See my first paragraph to see where some of my time and money goes to attempt to rectify what I see as an injustice.

In many, if not most states, one can exercise their 2nd Amendment rights without a permit.

And yet in other states and cities you can't. Where you live should not be a deciding factor in how you get to exercise your rights David. If it is a right as you say, then it is a right no matter where you live.

Some folks just think their rights are far more expansive than they actually are.



Completely true and guilty as charged David. For others who felt their rights were far more expansive then the law allowed see:

Brown vs. Board of Education, the 19th Amendment, Ricci v. DiStefano, McDonald v. Chicago or D.C. v. Heller.


Again, as I stated in the beginning. It's a shame.