Almost got in a gun fight last night. [Archive] - Glock Talk

PDA

View Full Version : Almost got in a gun fight last night.


dwalker84
07-17-2011, 15:25
So last night I decided to take my 8 year old stepson for a walk down to circle-K to get a few things.

We live in an apartment complex, in a very good part of town, where there's rarely any crime. We were heading out the complex and my step son sees something next to a dumpster and wants to check it out with his new surefire flashlight that I bought him. We're standing there looking at a dead snake, and my boy turns and says, "there's someone behind the dumpster." So I kind of peek around the dumpster to look, see two faces looking at us - so I tug on my sons shirt and say lets go.

I hear "What can I help you with?" in a southern accent. My stepson says "Nothing we're okay, thanks." and we start heading towards circle K.

We get back to the complex, and I decide to go check my mail - I had just pulled my mail out of my mailbox and I hear "HEY, HEY YOU, YOU LIVE HERE BOY? HEY!" really aggressive.

(By the way I'm open carrying my g26 appendix because it's hot out and my grip had just been stippled, so my undershirt was protecting my skin)

Theres 2 guys, quickly approaching us, obviously agitated.

The first thing he does is says "IS THAT GUN REGISTERED, YOU ALLOWED TO CARRY THAT GUN, WHY DO YOU HAVE A GUN?" I answered "I'm a law abiding citizen of Arizona, and as such I do not need a permit, nor do I need to 'register' my guns, what can I help you with??"
"WELL I GOT A GUN TOO, I WANT TO KNOW WHY YOUR OUT HERE SNEAKING AROUND WITH A YOUNG BOY!, YOU LIVE HERE? YOU BREAKING INTO CARS? WHERE DO YOU LIVE?? I WAS GOING TO CALL THE COPS BUT WE CAME OUT TO FIND YEH"

The whole time hes yelling I can smell alcohol, it was SO overwhelming on his breath - and I quickly notice he has his left hand on his hip at the 3:30-4:00 position, I can see that there IS a grip there, his hand pressing down on the fabric left a distinct outline of a pistol grip, and a holster buldge under his jeans. At this point I went from high alert to full on SHTF alert. I moved and at the same time grabbed and positioned my son behind me.

My first thought is something along the lines of "This guy is drunk, he thinks he's some kind of pedophile hunting vigilante, out to find trouble and shoot his hand cannon. He obviously doesn't know the laws, probably doesn't know much about guns, I've got more training then him, and hes drunk.. watch the hands.. watch his hands..."

At this point I feel a little better, knowing I have the advantage.

And then I'm thinking "Don't raise your voice, don't get upset, de-escalate the situation and agree with this guy"

I slowly moved my hand up to my pocket (I carry at the 1:30/2ish position appendix, so it was 2-3 inches from my grip just in case.

I explain to him what we were doing, why, and who we were.

He turns to my son and asks, "Are you okay? Is this your daddy? Are you sure you're okay, wheres your mommy?"
My son responds to him in a kind of 'you're an idiot, don't talk to me' kind of tone "Yes hes my stepdad, and I'm okay.. we were just walking..??, which looking back is pretty hilarious.

At this point the guy removes his hand from his hip, and starts to kind of calm down. He explains to us that his son's car is a "high target" for theft, and that he thought we were going to steal someones vehicle (there were no cars anywhere near us at the time). He says "This is my son, so and so - the kid looked SO embarrassed, he had to have been 16-18. He had this "my dad is a complete moron" look on his face. He explained that we looked super suspicious, and again repeated that he didn't call the police, because he wanted to find us first.

Anyways, I don't remember every detail of the conversation but eventually I said we had to go and that was that. I have his apartment number, I think I may mention something to the front office, that there's a vigilante neighborhood watch nutcase that runs around DRUNK with a loaded firearm. I went out with my wife to walk our two dogs, and the guy and his son were in their big truck driving around the apartment complex OUT ON THE PROWL! CATCH THEM SOME BAD GUYZ! They were out there driving around for atleast an hour... pathetic.

I truly believe if I hadn't of handled the conversation the way I did, and acted submissive/calm, that he absolutely would have fired off shots. No doubt in my mind. Absolutely mindblowing this guy..

I remember very clearly picturing my stepson getting shot, and instantly my brain going to "calm him down, calm him down.. de-escalate.."

I'm so shocked - I had alot of trouble sleeping last night from the adrenaline rush. It was a very interesting experience to say the least.

I'm confused as to how he came to the conclusion that he did. Why would someone that was well dressed, and well groomed, OC'ing, be breaking into cars WITH AN 8 YEAR OLD, in a WELL lit area, with NO CARS around to break into. I'm dumbfounded.

And why in god's name would you go out LOOKING to shoot someone, like you're the local sheriff - He didn't know me, if he was SO concerned about me, then the last thing he should have done was track me down. It could have ended ALOT differently for him and his son if I had been the nutcase pedophile car thief gangbanger he thought I was... stupidity.
Scary =(

My wife suggested to leave it alone, and if anything just report it to the office management. Do you guys think I should report it to the police or just leave it be? I do have his apartment number.. I just think his behavior was EXTREMELY dangerous, he was ready and willing to shoot me, no doubt. Whatcha think?

Adjuster
07-17-2011, 15:32
I am more interested in who was behind the dumpster?

crsuribe
07-17-2011, 15:36
You should have called the cops on him, right away. I personally think it's extremely dangerous for drunk people to carry loaded firearms and he should've been put away and not allowed to own firearms anymore. But by the time you tell the cops it'll be too late for them to catch him under the exact same circumstances, man. It would've been perfect if you called them right then after you got in your apt safely.

LASTRESORT20
07-17-2011, 15:39
People are strange when your a stranger...

HotRoderX
07-17-2011, 15:47
You should have called the cops on him, right away. I personally think it's extremely dangerous for drunk people to carry loaded firearms and he should've been put away and not allowed to own firearms anymore. But by the time you tell the cops it'll be too late for them to catch him under the exact same circumstances, man. It would've been perfect if you called them right then after you got in your apt safely.

I agree with the above post completely and wanna add. This guy is driving around the apartment complex for hour or more doing god knows what. There is good reason to believe he is armed and aggressive he did hunt you down after the fact. He also showed a willingness to shoot someone with out feeling threatened. In his mind maybe he is doing the right thing but how would you feel if someone in the complex got hurt thanks to this guy. At least if you alert the apartment complex or police you might save someone else life or his. The next guy he go's up to might not be as level headed as you. I got a friend who carries and has his permit and I have no question in my mind he would have shot the guy right there as soon as he seen the butt of a gun.

Gunshine
07-17-2011, 15:50
You should have called the cops on him, right away. I personally think it's extremely dangerous for drunk people to carry loaded firearms and he should've been put away and not allowed to own firearms anymore. But by the time you tell the cops it'll be too late for them to catch him under the exact same circumstances, man. It would've been perfect if you called them right then after you got in your apt safely.

This. You handled it very well and there's no point in trying to figure out what was going on in his booze soaked brain. The only thing I would have done differently is call the cops as soon as the boy was safe. This person should not be allowed to have a weapon. The problem with not calling the cops is it allows him to harm someone else.

Just1More
07-17-2011, 15:56
Open-carrying is a hostile act. Don't do that.

SGT HATRED
07-17-2011, 15:56
Tuscon.... You should have and still should call the police. You have his appt# and a vehicle description.

SGT HATRED
07-17-2011, 15:57
Open-carrying is a hostile act. Don't do that.
Are you being serious? Or have you never been to AZ?:yawn:

collim1
07-17-2011, 16:21
If I had to guess he was watching out for the people behind the dumpster while they were hitting the pipe. He was prolly trying to distract you from the drug activity so you didn't call the police.

LongGoneDays
07-17-2011, 16:23
Why you haven't shot him or called the police yet baffles me.

Teej
07-17-2011, 16:30
I'm confused. So these weren't the same two from behind the dumpster?

And you stated you live in a very good part of town, where there's rarely any crime yet in a short matter of time you come upon 2 faces behind a dumpster at nigh, then you are "chased down by 2 men at least one who is armed, possibly both.

You might want to rethink about your living area. :wow:

dwalker84
07-17-2011, 16:38
It was him and his son behind the dumpster - They have a wall and gate that lead out to the area where they were. Theres the apartment complex, and then a dentist office/parking lot behind his apartment.

I'm not sure if they were up to no good, or what.

As to the guy who says open carrying is a hostile act, I completely disagree. Maybe in California, or somewhere else, but this is Arizona. Anywhere you go there's SOMEONE open carrying. It's extremely common place here. He would have been agressive and crazy regardless if I had the gun open or not, I actually bet had he not seen the gun when he approached, he would have been more agressive/ballsy - he knew I was armed and on an equal playing field.

On top of that, by open carrying I had the advantage of draw time. He already had his hand on his grip OVER his shirt. He would have had to remove his hand from the grip, pull up his shirt, regrip, draw from BEHIND, and shoot while I had no clothing to mess with at ALL - and having my firearm in the appendix carry position I could have drawn MUCH faster. Also being sober I had the upper hand in reaction time.

This guy had some serious issues. My wife told me to not call the police, but to report it to the apartment complex. Her reasoning was it was around 9:40pm, we had to get my son in bed, and she didn't want me to be up answering questions all night if they had to come out and to start a neighborhood feud after only living here for 4 weeks. I regret not calling as soon as it happened.. oh well, I'm still going to report it to the manager.

Shinesintx
07-17-2011, 16:41
You could still call the cops?


Good story BTW. Its good to read these and be able to second guess what you should have done. I still think ya did really well, as its easy for us to armchair when we were not in that situation and having to react on the fly.

kensteele
07-17-2011, 16:42
Why you haven't shot him or called the police yet baffles me.

"He says you threatened him with that gun, did he threatening you with his gun? He wants to press charge, do you want to press charges?" maybe says the police officer.

Officer is more than happy to lock up both of them. No, don't call the police. Let your management know.

edit: put statement in quotes

dwalker84
07-17-2011, 16:44
I'm confused. So these weren't the same two from behind the dumpster?

And you stated you live in a very good part of town, where there's rarely any crime yet in a short matter of time you come upon 2 faces behind a dumpster at nigh, then you are "chased down by 2 men at least one who is armed, possibly both.

You might want to rethink about your living area. :wow:

Yes they were the guys behind the dumpster - it was outside the gate to their apartment.

I agree with you, I'm just shocked. Oro Valley in Tucson is considered 'upper middle class' everything is expensive out here, it's very quiet/calm and well taken care of. We have a fire station and sheriffs office half a block from here. We moved here to get away from the ghetto area we lived in prior. The North side of town is by far the safest, nicest, lowest crime rate areas in town.

chris in va
07-17-2011, 16:53
I see this another way.

Guy (a bit drunk) gets fed up with people breaking into his car and he sets up a hidden observation point. Sure enough, two people come 'snooping' around and in his drunken state decides it's more satisfying to come after the potential perps rather than call the cops. Furthermore he sees a man with a child walking around at night doing suspicious things and feels it his duty to make sure the kid isn't with some perv.

:whistling:

packsaddle
07-17-2011, 16:55
a couple of undercover hispanic officers walking around the parking lot with bandanas on their heads would quickly end his reign of terror.

LongGoneDays
07-17-2011, 17:19
He says you threatened him with that gun, did he threatening you with his gun? He wants to press charge, do you want to press charges?

Officer is more than happy to lock up both of them. No, don't call the police. Let your management know.



So we can put you in the "should have shot him" group.

beatcop
07-17-2011, 17:23
Grab your kid by the hand and walk away, state "I'm calling the police....." That eliminates any bs interrogation, quickdraw issues and lets him know who is "right".

I can see why this guys aggressive attitude had you worried, but the longer you indulge a drunk, the longer something stupid can happen.

dwalker84
07-17-2011, 17:27
I see this another way.

Guy (a bit drunk) gets fed up with people breaking into his car and he sets up a hidden observation point. Sure enough, two people come 'snooping' around and in his drunken state decides it's more satisfying to come after the potential perps rather than call the cops. Furthermore he sees a man with a child walking around at night doing suspicious things and feels it his duty to make sure the kid isn't with some perv.

:whistling:

Yes, that's it. Lets not call the cops and threaten to shoot people because they're taking their son for a WALK in their neighborhood. Yes, it is so suspicious to be in a well light parking lot, you know, walking - so suspicious. And yes, it's very much okay to threaten someone's life while checking their mail with a KEY at the community mailboxes.

I wasn't aware that walking my child made me a thief/pedophile. Interesting. No one in their right mind would go hunting down someone with a pistol because they were spotted in a PUBLIC well lit area, doing NOTHING wrong or suspicious WHATSOEVER. The guy obviously has some serious issues.

So you agree that it's reasonable to track down a father and son with a firearm, and no knowledge of SD/State law, with the intension of a citizen arrest or shooting, WHILE intoxicated, threaten the life of someone in front of an 8 year old child - waiting ever so excitedly to draw his gun and fire shots AT/IN the direction of the 8 year old. All because in his paranoid little world someone MIGHT be stealing a car when there ARE NOT any cars in the area? That logic fails, x10. Sorry

Are you telling me that this is something you would do? Or am I assuming wrong.

barstoolguru
07-17-2011, 17:45
This. You handled it very well and there's no point in trying to figure out what was going on in his booze soaked brain. The only thing I would have done differently is call the cops as soon as the boy was safe. This person should not be allowed to have a weapon. The problem with not calling the cops is it allows him to harm someone else.

who did he harn in the first place?

I hate cop callers

SCmasterblaster
07-17-2011, 17:50
You handled it well. No gun point was shown, no one was shot.

beatcop
07-17-2011, 17:55
who did he harn in the first place?

I hate cop callers

You kidding?

Victim = Society

You shouldn't have to be punked out by a drunk with a gun...If the Op's post is accurate, the guy's decision making process was compromised by alcohol. Sorry, not my idea of a gun rights poster child...that's why we have a "carrying while drunk" statute.

Christian944
07-17-2011, 18:00
Open Carry would of presented this

Mister_Beefy
07-17-2011, 18:07
Open-carrying is a hostile act. Don't do that.


baaaaaaaaaaa

Mister_Beefy
07-17-2011, 18:09
who did he harn in the first place?

I hate cop callers


no kidding! it's not like that's their job or anything.

a drunk guy threatening you with a firearm?


should've called the cops

Mayhem like Me
07-17-2011, 18:14
where is the GNG thread with the member that almost shot a pedophile?

21Carrier
07-17-2011, 18:18
Wow! What a maniac! You handled it well. I would still call the police. Regardless of what people say about your word vs. his, you have your son as a witness, and you have his son (who very well might support that his dad is a reckless drunk based on his obvious embarrassment). This guy is a menace, and WILL hurt someone at some point. If nothing else, I would get your statement ON RECORD with the police. What if you have a future run-in with the guy, or he kills someone else? You want this on record. He has no business owning a gun if he is going to act like that and be drunk. I have a sneaking suspicion he drinks regularly, and if you report this to the police, it would be quite easy for them to find him drunk and armed.

I'm glad you and your son are safe. Regardless of what people say, be proud of yourself for protecting your son, and keeping your cool. You did the right thing. Still, the police need to be aware of this guy. If you are afraid of an I said/he said type ordeal, just make an anonymous phone call to the police, and let them sort it out.

soflasmg
07-17-2011, 18:21
Truly great job de-escalating the situation.

You were in the right, but man enough to "back down".

You saved that retard's life.

mickey24
07-17-2011, 18:24
Situations like that is what lawmakers in New Jersey wait for to take away all our rights to even own a handgun let alone carry one.

doktarZues
07-17-2011, 18:27
You kidding?

Victim = Society

You shouldn't have to be punked out by a drunk with a gun...If the Op's post is accurate, the guy's decision making process was compromised by alcohol. Sorry, not my idea of a gun rights poster child...that's why we have a "carrying while drunk" statute.

I don't think he's kidding :wow:.. nevermind the fact that the OP was accosted by an armed and aggressive drunk--just don't be a "rat" and be one of those "cop callers."

God, please give your blessings to our country.

scorpio2011
07-17-2011, 18:33
you say he reeked of alcohol had a gun,then you see him behind the wheel of what's now a 3 ton weapon.should have called the police.another innocent like you could have came to a worse end.
its good you and your son made it home safely.nobody got hurt,thank goodness

kensteele
07-17-2011, 18:58
"He says you threatened him with that gun, did he threatening you with his gun? He wants to press charge, do you want to press charges?" maybe says the police officer.

Officer is more than happy to lock up both of them. No, don't call the police. Let your management know.



So we can put you in the "should have shot him" group.

I edited my post to put the statement in quotes to show a potential reason why not to call the police. Should have shot him? Of course not. Those aren't the only two choices, shoot or police. I say neither. My advices is stated at the very end of my post, bolded above. Why can't he inform the complex mgmt and have them contact police?

beatcop
07-17-2011, 19:28
I don't think he's kidding :wow:.. nevermind the fact that the OP was accosted by an armed and aggressive drunk--just don't be a "rat" and be one of those "cop callers."

God, please give your blessings to our country.

Perhaps he should send the op on of these?http://media.amw.com/multimedia/fileRepository/db/472/115/SS-shirt_horz_enlg.jpg

RedsoxFan4Lyfe
07-17-2011, 19:36
I think the OP handled it well. Sometimes discretion is the better part of valor.
It was a tough call, it sounds like, and in this case he made the right one.

RedsoxFan4Lyfe
07-17-2011, 19:39
Situations like that is what lawmakers in New Jersey wait for to take away all our rights to even own a handgun let alone carry one.

They pretty much have in New Jersey already. NJ, NY and MA. are absolutely terrible for the law abiding gun owner. They don't need to look for any more "reasons" because every one of those gun grabbers has already won in those states. Meanwhile they still have protection. :)

kensteele
07-17-2011, 19:46
Some nicer apartment complexes have a zero-tolerance rule on police calls. Doesn't matter the reasons or who called, if the police come out, strike one. Strike two and you violate your lease.

Gallium
07-17-2011, 20:44
So last night I decided to take my 8 year old stepson for a walk down to circle-K to get a few things.

We live in an apartment complex, in a very good part of town, where there's rarely any crime. We were heading out the complex and my step son sees something next to a dumpster and wants to check it out with his new surefire flashlight that I bought him. We're standing there looking at a dead snake, and my boy turns and says, "there's someone behind the dumpster." So I kind of peek around the dumpster to look, see two faces looking at us - so I tug on my sons shirt and say lets go.

I hear "What can I help you with?" in a southern accent. My stepson says "Nothing we're okay, thanks." and we start heading towards circle K.

We get back to the complex, and I decide to go check my mail - I had just pulled my mail out of my mailbox and I hear "HEY, HEY YOU, YOU LIVE HERE BOY? HEY!" really aggressive.

(By the way I'm open carrying my g26 appendix because it's hot out and my grip had just been stippled, so my undershirt was protecting my skin)

Theres 2 guys, quickly approaching us, obviously agitated.

The first thing he does is says "IS THAT GUN REGISTERED, YOU ALLOWED TO CARRY THAT GUN, WHY DO YOU HAVE A GUN?" I answered "I'm a law abiding citizen of Arizona, and as such I do not need a permit, nor do I need to 'register' my guns, what can I help you with??"
"WELL I GOT A GUN TOO, I WANT TO KNOW WHY YOUR OUT HERE SNEAKING AROUND WITH A YOUNG BOY!, YOU LIVE HERE? YOU BREAKING INTO CARS? WHERE DO YOU LIVE?? I WAS GOING TO CALL THE COPS BUT WE CAME OUT TO FIND YEH"

The whole time hes yelling I can smell alcohol, it was SO overwhelming on his breath - and I quickly notice he has his left hand on his hip at the 3:30-4:00 position, I can see that there IS a grip there, his hand pressing down on the fabric left a distinct outline of a pistol grip, and a holster buldge under his jeans. At this point I went from high alert to full on SHTF alert. I moved and at the same time grabbed and positioned my son behind me.

My first thought is something along the lines of "This guy is drunk, he thinks he's some kind of pedophile hunting vigilante, out to find trouble and shoot his hand cannon. He obviously doesn't know the laws, probably doesn't know much about guns, I've got more training then him, and hes drunk.. watch the hands.. watch his hands..."

At this point I feel a little better, knowing I have the advantage.

And then I'm thinking "Don't raise your voice, don't get upset, de-escalate the situation and agree with this guy"

I slowly moved my hand up to my pocket (I carry at the 1:30/2ish position appendix, so it was 2-3 inches from my grip just in case.

I explain to him what we were doing, why, and who we were.

He turns to my son and asks, "Are you okay? Is this your daddy? Are you sure you're okay, wheres your mommy?"
My son responds to him in a kind of 'you're an idiot, don't talk to me' kind of tone "Yes hes my stepdad, and I'm okay.. we were just walking..??, which looking back is pretty hilarious.

At this point the guy removes his hand from his hip, and starts to kind of calm down. He explains to us that his son's car is a "high target" for theft, and that he thought we were going to steal someones vehicle (there were no cars anywhere near us at the time). He says "This is my son, so and so - the kid looked SO embarrassed, he had to have been 16-18. He had this "my dad is a complete moron" look on his face. He explained that we looked super suspicious, and again repeated that he didn't call the police, because he wanted to find us first.

Anyways, I don't remember every detail of the conversation but eventually I said we had to go and that was that. I have his apartment number, I think I may mention something to the front office, that there's a vigilante neighborhood watch nutcase that runs around DRUNK with a loaded firearm. I went out with my wife to walk our two dogs, and the guy and his son were in their big truck driving around the apartment complex OUT ON THE PROWL! CATCH THEM SOME BAD GUYZ! They were out there driving around for atleast an hour... pathetic.

I truly believe if I hadn't of handled the conversation the way I did, and acted submissive/calm, that he absolutely would have fired off shots. No doubt in my mind. Absolutely mindblowing this guy..

I remember very clearly picturing my stepson getting shot, and instantly my brain going to "calm him down, calm him down.. de-escalate.."

I'm so shocked - I had alot of trouble sleeping last night from the adrenaline rush. It was a very interesting experience to say the least.

I'm confused as to how he came to the conclusion that he did. Why would someone that was well dressed, and well groomed, OC'ing, be breaking into cars WITH AN 8 YEAR OLD, in a WELL lit area, with NO CARS around to break into. I'm dumbfounded.

And why in god's name would you go out LOOKING to shoot someone, like you're the local sheriff - He didn't know me, if he was SO concerned about me, then the last thing he should have done was track me down. It could have ended ALOT differently for him and his son if I had been the nutcase pedophile car thief gangbanger he thought I was... stupidity.
Scary =(

My wife suggested to leave it alone, and if anything just report it to the office management. Do you guys think I should report it to the police or just leave it be? I do have his apartment number.. I just think his behavior was EXTREMELY dangerous, he was ready and willing to shoot me, no doubt. Whatcha think?

It was him and his son behind the dumpster - They have a wall and gate that lead out to the area where they were. Theres the apartment complex, and then a dentist office/parking lot behind his apartment.

I'm not sure if they were up to no good, or what.

As to the guy who says open carrying is a hostile act, I completely disagree. Maybe in California, or somewhere else, but this is Arizona. Anywhere you go there's SOMEONE open carrying. It's extremely common place here. He would have been agressive and crazy regardless if I had the gun open or not, I actually bet had he not seen the gun when he approached, he would have been more agressive/ballsy - he knew I was armed and on an equal playing field.

On top of that, by open carrying I had the advantage of draw time. He already had his hand on his grip OVER his shirt. He would have had to remove his hand from the grip, pull up his shirt, regrip, draw from BEHIND, and shoot while I had no clothing to mess with at ALL - and having my firearm in the appendix carry position I could have drawn MUCH faster. Also being sober I had the upper hand in reaction time.

This guy had some serious issues. My wife told me to not call the police, but to report it to the apartment complex. Her reasoning was it was around 9:40pm, we had to get my son in bed, and she didn't want me to be up answering questions all night if they had to come out and to start a neighborhood feud after only living here for 4 weeks. I regret not calling as soon as it happened.. oh well, I'm still going to report it to the manager.

Yes they were the guys behind the dumpster - it was outside the gate to their apartment.

I agree with you, I'm just shocked. Oro Valley in Tucson is considered 'upper middle class' everything is expensive out here, it's very quiet/calm and well taken care of. We have a fire station and sheriffs office half a block from here. We moved here to get away from the ghetto area we lived in prior. The North side of town is by far the safest, nicest, lowest crime rate areas in town.

Yes, that's it. Lets not call the cops and threaten to shoot people because they're taking their son for a WALK in their neighborhood. Yes, it is so suspicious to be in a well light parking lot, you know, walking - so suspicious. And yes, it's very much okay to threaten someone's life while checking their mail with a KEY at the community mailboxes.

I wasn't aware that walking my child made me a thief/pedophile. Interesting. No one in their right mind would go hunting down someone with a pistol because they were spotted in a PUBLIC well lit area, doing NOTHING wrong or suspicious WHATSOEVER. The guy obviously has some serious issues.

So you agree that it's reasonable to track down a father and son with a firearm, and no knowledge of SD/State law, with the intension of a citizen arrest or shooting, WHILE intoxicated, threaten the life of someone in front of an 8 year old child - waiting ever so excitedly to draw his gun and fire shots AT/IN the direction of the 8 year old. All because in his paranoid little world someone MIGHT be stealing a car when there ARE NOT any cars in the area? That logic fails, x10. Sorry

Are you telling me that this is something you would do? Or am I assuming wrong.


Uh, tagged for later reading. :whistling:

greenman19
07-17-2011, 21:10
Unfortunetly, it is pretty widespread that some people do not have the maturity needed to carry or even own a firearm. LEOs are taught that someone who is inexperienced at carrying a weapon often goes around hoping someone will challenge them. Kind of like, "lets see if they want to talk some smack now!"
It seems this is what you ran into here.

Misty02
07-17-2011, 22:03
Not doing a Sunday night quarterbacking here, dwalker84; just thinking of other possible options.

I don’t engage in conversations with strangers, let alone drunks. If they were right by the apartments I would have been more inclined to tell the child to go home to his mother allowing him to stay behind briefly to ensure the child made it safely home and away from those two guys. I would have then gone home as well and called the police once there.

What you did worked well this time but if this guy is patrolling the neighborhood looking for trouble, he’ll find it (even if by his own creation).

.

RustyDaleShackleford
07-17-2011, 22:04
I'd definitely call the cops, no two ways about it.

Drunk, aggressive, and carrying are all okay. But not at the same time.

Tell the cops you almost had to act in self-defense and they need to pick that nut up. He could have gotten four people killed that night.

Mister_Beefy
07-17-2011, 23:51
where is the GNG thread with the member that almost shot a pedophile?


stuck to the back of your badge.

smokeross
07-18-2011, 00:42
TAP TAP. TAP TAP. Walk away.

Mayhem like Me
07-18-2011, 05:30
stuck to the back of your badge.

???m I knew it was you!

Gunshine
07-18-2011, 05:50
who did he harn in the first place?

I hate cop callers

He has harmed no one as yet. But that doesn't mean he won't be drunk again and on the prowl for more would be thieves or pedophiles. It's pretty much the same as watching a drunk driver unable to maintain his lane at 70 m.p.h. . An aggressive drunk with a gun is a dangerous thing.

The majority of posters to this thread seem to agree with me that the police should have been called. As to your hatred of me or cop callers. Given the source I couldn't possibly give a damn.

barstoolguru
07-18-2011, 07:01
You kidding?

Victim = Society

You shouldn't have to be punked out by a drunk with a gun...If the Op's post is accurate, the guy's decision making process was compromised by alcohol. Sorry, not my idea of a gun rights poster child...that's why we have a "carrying while drunk" statute.

I stand behind what I said…. Did anyone pull a gun…NO, was there a threat-YES but to who? Someone walks around with a gun on their hip oc’ing that is going to set up a red flag legal or not. Where they wrong sure but to wreck a man’s life because YOU think he is dangerous is wrong by it self and if the cops came out that is what would have happened. You could have mention that what he was doing is illegal might have defused the situation. Call the management and file a grievance would be right so they know and can act accordingly. There is a time to call the police but not every time the hair on the back of your neck stands up. One last thing about a kid with you, people often have kids with them when steeling they make good lookouts without drawing attention and get into places an adult can’t
They never seen their gun so good luck trying to prove it existed. Just because “I think” or “he said” is not proof of anything

Reb56
07-18-2011, 07:06
I think you handled the situation well, you and your son walked away from a bad situation alive. Things could have gone wrong fast. Thanks for sharing your story with us. It’s good that we share stories like this and get all the input on “what I would do”; it is all stored away on our hard drives and will maybe help us sometime in the future.

barstoolguru
07-18-2011, 07:42
What if that guy went home and posted on his website the same night…. “I just got done taking out the trash and we were hanging out at the dumpster doing some diving and some kid jumped us. The first thing I noticed is some dude with him was with him is carrying a gun on his hip so we just let him go. The next thing I know is he is back so as a resident of the complex I approached him and made sure he lives here but the gun on his hip made me nervous” remember there are two sides to a coin

04gtmustang
07-18-2011, 07:51
You should have called the cops on him, right away. I personally think it's extremely dangerous for drunk people to carry loaded firearms and he should've been put away and not allowed to own firearms anymore. But by the time you tell the cops it'll be too late for them to catch him under the exact same circumstances, man. It would've been perfect if you called them right then after you got in your apt safely.
+1
Open-carrying is a hostile act. Don't do that.
I agree but we arent gonna get in an arguement over open or concealed carry although it almost did not help the situation.

Good thing though that you kept your mind about you and didnt flip out or things could have gotten ugly especially since your son was with you.

Gunshine
07-18-2011, 08:18
What if that guy went home and posted on his website the same night…. “I just got done taking out the trash and we were hanging out at the dumpster doing some diving and some kid jumped us. The first thing I noticed is some dude with him was with him is carrying a gun on his hip so we just let him go. The next thing I know is he is back so as a resident of the complex I approached him and made sure he lives here but the gun on his hip made me nervous” remember there are two sides to a coin

Are you simply uninformed or intentionally ignoring the most pertinent point of the thread. In most states it is against the law to carry a weapon while intoxicated. Hence my comparison to a drunk driver. In Florida it is a class three felony.punishable by three years in state prison.

You choose to defend a felon? Two sides to a coin. "I approached him but the gun he was legally carrying made me nervous. Good thing I was ileagally carrying mine"

barstoolguru
07-18-2011, 08:46
Are you simply uninformed or intentionally ignoring the most pertinent point of the thread. In most states it is against the law to carry a weapon while intoxicated. Hence my comparison to a drunk driver. In Florida it is a class three felony.punishable by three years in state prison.

You choose to defend a felon? Two sides to a coin. "I approached him but the gun he was legally carrying made me nervous. Good thing I was ileagally carrying mine"

To destroy a man’s life because he had a moment of stupidity is wrong. To compare this to a drunk driver is equally wrong. A drunk driver is not a felony and does not destroy your life, just makes it difficult for a while. This man will get a felony conviction for doing something stupid that will affect him the rest of his life in job, voting, credit and many other ways. A DWI does not do that and Too many things are felonies nowadays.
What to know what I mean…… take Texas….as much as 25% of Dallas county is on parole or probation at any given time. What it tells me is that crime is a money maker to the state and not just a punishment so the more crime the more money the system makes

Misty02
07-18-2011, 09:43
Are you simply uninformed or intentionally ignoring the most pertinent point of the thread. In most states it is against the law to carry a weapon while intoxicated. Hence my comparison to a drunk driver. In Florida it is a class three felony.punishable by three years in state prison.

You choose to defend a felon? Two sides to a coin. "I approached him but the gun he was legally carrying made me nervous. Good thing I was ileagally carrying mine"

While I don’t drink nor would I encourage anyone to carry while they are intoxicated, it is not illegal in Florida to carry while intoxicated.

It is illegal to “use a firearm” while intoxicated (see definition of use below); however, it’s not illegal to use it for the purpose of self-defense.


790.151 Using firearm while under the influence of alcoholic beverages, chemical substances, or controlled substances; penalties.— (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/STATUTES/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0700-0799/0790/Sections/0790.151.html)

(1) As used in ss. 790.151 (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/STATUTES/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0700-0799/0790/Sections/0790.151.html)-790.157 (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/STATUTES/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0700-0799/0790/Sections/0790.157.html), to “use a firearm” means to discharge a firearm or to have a firearm readily accessible for immediate discharge.
(2) For the purposes of this section, “readily accessible for immediate discharge” means loaded and in a person’s hand.
(3) It is unlawful and punishable as provided in subsection (4) for any person who is under the influence of alcoholic beverages, any chemical substance set forth in s. 877.111 (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/STATUTES/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0800-0899/0877/Sections/0877.111.html), or any substance controlled under chapter 893, when affected to the extent that his or her normal faculties are impaired, to use a firearm in this state.
(4) Any person who violates subsection (3) commits a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/STATUTES/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0700-0799/0775/Sections/0775.082.html) or s. 775.083 (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/STATUTES/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0700-0799/0775/Sections/0775.083.html).
(5) This section does not apply to persons exercising lawful self-defense or defense of one’s property.

FireForged
07-18-2011, 09:56
The first thing he does is says "IS THAT GUN REGISTERED, YOU ALLOWED TO CARRY THAT GUN, WHY DO YOU HAVE A GUN?"

I support any method of carry as long as its legal. I am not trying to get into pros and cons of OC but if you do carry a firearm in plain view of the public- some odd ball is going to confront you about it sooner or later. This may not have been the primary reason for this contact but it was important enough for him to yell about it. I dont put too much thought into why drunk people do what they do, heck- most of the time they dont even know themselves.

I am glad that it all worked out for you.

Misty02
07-18-2011, 10:02
To destroy a man’s life because he had a moment of stupidity is wrong. To compare this to a drunk driver is equally wrong. A drunk driver is not a felony and does not destroy your life, just makes it difficult for a while. This man will get a felony conviction for doing something stupid that will affect him the rest of his life in job, voting, credit and many other ways. A DWI does not do that and Too many things are felonies nowadays.
What to know what I mean…… take Texas….as much as 25% of Dallas county is on parole or probation at any given time. What it tells me is that crime is a money maker to the state and not just a punishment so the more crime the more money the system makes

In Florida it wouldn’t be a felony, but even if it was I wouldn’t give a hoot. If someone threatens me or my family you better believe I’m calling the police and pressing charges. The consequences of his actions would be his to bear.

.

tarheeltrav
07-18-2011, 10:12
I think you handled the situation well, you and your son walked away from a bad situation alive. Things could have gone wrong fast. Thanks for sharing your story with us. It’s good that we share stories like this and get all the input on “what I would do”; it is all stored away on our hard drives and will maybe help us sometime in the future.

:agree:

barstoolguru
07-18-2011, 10:28
In Florida it wouldn’t be a felony, but even if it was I wouldn’t give a hoot. If someone threatens me or my family you better believe I’m calling the police and pressing charges. The consequences of his actions would be his to bear.

.

quote : "WELL I GOT A GUN TOO, I WANT TO KNOW WHY YOUR OUT HERE SNEAKING AROUND WITH A YOUNG BOY!, YOU LIVE HERE? YOU BREAKING INTO CARS? WHERE DO YOU LIVE?? I WAS GOING TO CALL THE COPS BUT WE CAME OUT TO FIND YEH"

sounds like he came out to make sure they are checking up on things. one thing I didn't notice is a time of day but he said it was dark and who checks their mail late at night anyway, isn't this something you do when you get home? the perp said he had a gun but never showed it, could have been a bluff

Misty02
07-18-2011, 10:44
quote : "WELL I GOT A GUN TOO, I WANT TO KNOW WHY YOUR OUT HERE SNEAKING AROUND WITH A YOUNG BOY!, YOU LIVE HERE? YOU BREAKING INTO CARS? WHERE DO YOU LIVE?? I WAS GOING TO CALL THE COPS BUT WE CAME OUT TO FIND YEH"

sounds like he came out to make sure they are checking up on things. one thing I didn't notice is a time of day but he said it was dark and who checks their mail late at night anyway, isn't this something you do when you get home? the perp said he had a gun but never showed it, could have been a bluff

It is still a confrontational and threatening interrogation by someone without the authority to do so and drunk. If it had been me and he was impeding my ability to leave, it would have been even worse. There are no requirements as to when you can check your mail, you go when time allows.

I don’t care much if it is a bluff or not. In most cases I will be taking threatening words/actions against me or mine at face value and will act accordingly. People that go around bluffing, trying to intimidate others, should understand that is a dangerous game with disastrous consequences.

.

smokeross
07-18-2011, 10:44
To destroy a man’s life because he had a moment of stupidity is wrong. To compare this to a drunk driver is equally wrong. A drunk driver is not a felony and does not destroy your life, just makes it difficult for a while. This man will get a felony conviction for doing something stupid that will affect him the rest of his life in job, voting, credit and many other ways. A DWI does not do that and Too many things are felonies nowadays.
What to know what I mean…… take Texas….as much as 25% of Dallas county is on parole or probation at any given time. What it tells me is that crime is a money maker to the state and not just a punishment so the more crime the more money the system makes

WHAT??? Drunk driving is a felony up here. Unless maybe it's your first one, and you didn't actually endanger someone, or have a kid in the car, or a gun, or try to evade, be involved in an accident, or.......

kensteele
07-18-2011, 11:42
Haha, hope you don't call teh police and one arrives who thinks OC is a "hostile act." LOL

GunHo198
07-18-2011, 12:02
Id have to say... Make friends with this guy, and let him go about his business of patroling for prowlers. This way it makes any stupid thing you might do in the future not look so bad. And with him scareing the crap out of every stranger that gets near the apartments, you can relax and watch TV. LOL

barstoolguru
07-18-2011, 12:41
TAP TAP. TAP TAP. Walk away.

and that tap,tap, tap might your roomy in the prison system getting some of the new fish


Arizona doesn’t have the one of the highest death rates by firearms for nothing. It’s that vigilantly view on things like this. The easy party is pulling the trigger; the aftermath will wreck your life over what someone behind a dumpster. It’s easy to say you’re going to do it and actually doing it are two different things over nothing

John Rambo
07-18-2011, 12:49
You should have called the cops on him, right away. I personally think it's extremely dangerous for drunk people to carry loaded firearms and he should've been put away and not allowed to own firearms anymore. But by the time you tell the cops it'll be too late for them to catch him under the exact same circumstances, man. It would've been perfect if you called them right then after you got in your apt safely.

:crying:Better tell my state that. I walk around with a firearm drunk as skunk, and its perfectly lawful. :wavey:

Guy was an idiot, sober or drunk. I've carried so drunk I had to move slowly as to not stumble and never decided to go vigilantie on anyone.

Warp
07-18-2011, 12:50
who did he harn in the first place?

I hate cop callers

Most criminals do.

Warp
07-18-2011, 12:52
who checks their mail late at night anyway


If ever there was a doubt regarding your troll status, this settles it. :rofl:

Donn57
07-18-2011, 12:56
The way I see it, the biggest sin that the drunk guy committed was being drunk and belligerent.

Notifying the OP that he also had a gun is not a threat anymore than the OP OCing around his apartment complex is a threat. The gun was not drawn. No one was threatened with being shot. In fact, the OP never actually saw a weapon.

As we have pointed out with cops who encounter armed individuals, they don't know you're one of the good guys. This guy sees someone wandering around the dumpster in the dark and he approaches him only to find him openly armed, so he informs the OP that he too is armed.

The OP is certainly within his rights to call the cops, but not being familiar with AZ law, I'm not sure the drunk guy did anything illegal. In Florida, I don't believe he could be charged with anything except maybe public intoxication as long as he had a CCW. He was guilty of being a complete jerk, but if we shot every jerk we encountered, the world would soon become a lonely place.

Donn57
07-18-2011, 13:04
:crying:Better tell my state that. I walk around with a firearm drunk as skunk, and its perfectly lawful. :wavey:

Guy was an idiot, sober or drunk. I've carried so drunk I had to move slowly as to not stumble and never decided to go vigilantie on anyone.

The guy was an idiot to be sure but being the local neighborhood watch doesn't make him an idiot, doing it while drunk is most likely the problem.

Warp
07-18-2011, 13:08
Notifying the OP that he also had a gun is not a threat anymore than the OP OCing around his apartment complex is a threat.

I disagree. I see a notable difference between telling somebody you have a gun...while approaching them in a confrontational manner no less...vs carrying in a manner which allows the gun to be seen...while going about your business. Not saying it was a threat or it was illegal, but it IS different.

dwalker84
07-18-2011, 13:45
Not doing a Sunday night quarterbacking here, dwalker84; just thinking of other possible options.

I don’t engage in conversations with strangers, let alone drunks. If they were right by the apartments I would have been more inclined to tell the child to go home to his mother allowing him to stay behind briefly to ensure the child made it safely home and away from those two guys. I would have then gone home as well and called the police once there.

What you did worked well this time but if this guy is patrolling the neighborhood looking for trouble, he’ll find it (even if by his own creation).

.

You're definitely right, that would have been a good idea to send him home, I did not think of that at the time, so much was going threw my head. There was a few things I would have changed for sure.

The bad part is that the mailboxes are closed in, one way in, one way out - by a very small sidewalk. They cornered us, which was pretty scary, and one of the reasons I talked it out with him. I may have just walked away had it been in a more open area.

mrsurfboard
07-18-2011, 13:48
I don't know, I may have to call BS on this story.

dwalker84
07-18-2011, 13:56
Also to those who say I'm a snitch, I don't see how letting the authorities know that the incident happened equates to me being a snitch. He put my life and my 8 year olds life in danger. He obviously can't make big boy decisions. If something were to happen in the future with this individual, I have it on record what happened previously - this is not being a snitch, this is called covering your bases, period.

If you were out walking with your child, and someone pulled this mess on you, you would be absolutely furious.

Misty02
07-18-2011, 13:58
You're definitely right, that would have been a good idea to send him home, I did not think of that at the time, so much was going threw my head. There was a few things I would have changed for sure.

The bad part is that the mailboxes are closed in, one way in, one way out - by a very small sidewalk. They cornered us, which was pretty scary, and one of the reasons I talked it out with him. I may have just walked away had it been in a more open area.


Hey, you can’t think of everything that can ever happen. For all we know sending him ahead might not have been the prudent thing; just another option to keep under the hat if a similar situation presents itself in the future. By your description of the mail boxes, if I couldn’t have a clear view of your son making it home, I wouldn’t have done it either.

We’ve all learned something from your experience and there is always something you can think of, in hindsight, that you might have done differently. All those things increase the odds of doing better the next time.

.

dwalker84
07-18-2011, 14:11
To destroy a man’s life because he had a moment of stupidity is wrong. To compare this to a drunk driver is equally wrong. A drunk driver is not a felony and does not destroy your life, just makes it difficult for a while. This man will get a felony conviction for doing something stupid that will affect him the rest of his life in job, voting, credit and many other ways. A DWI does not do that and Too many things are felonies nowadays.
What to know what I mean…… take Texas….as much as 25% of Dallas county is on parole or probation at any given time. What it tells me is that crime is a money maker to the state and not just a punishment so the more crime the more money the system makes

The man had his hand on the grip of his gun nearly the entire time with an aggressive lean as if he was ready to draw. Made VERY clear he had a gun. The grip of the gun was printing, 115% a fullsize 1911 in a leather holster OWB - it was visible 1 inch under his shirt line. It was printing so badly, but even more so when his hand pressed against it. Not only did he threaten my life, but an 8 year olds, himself and his SON'S. Stupid.

Since when was walking outside enough to threaten someone with a firearm? We did absolutely NOTHING suspicious.

I bet you an off duty cop would have drawn on him the moment his hand went to his hip.

This to me is a THREAT, period.

Misty02
07-18-2011, 14:32
and that tap,tap, tap might your roomy in the prison system getting some of the new fish


Arizona doesn’t have the one of the highest death rates by firearms for nothing. It’s that vigilantly view on things like this. The easy party is pulling the trigger; the aftermath will wreck your life over what someone behind a dumpster. It’s easy to say you’re going to do it and actually doing it are two different things over nothing

Just out of curiosity, I looked it up. Which site rated Arizona as having the highest death rates by Firearms? BTW, the ones below seem to include suicides.

This one puts Arizona at #5: http://www.statemaster.com/graph/cri_mur_wit_fir-death-rate-per-100-000

This one puts Arizona at #8: http://www.statehealthfacts.org/comparemaptable.jsp?ind=113&cat=2

.

gommer
07-18-2011, 14:59
I'd report it to the police.

You NEED to establish his behavioral history.

This tool comes up to you again and you have to shoot him the best you've got right now is that you've had a prior altercation with him. That won't look good on YOU.

Report the nut-job.

If you felt threatened, it's assault. I'd say the guy putting his hand on his gun while initiating a confrontation would be good enough.

I'm not that familiar with the laws in Arizona, but I'd say that's a universal common sense. If it had been me with my son I sincerely doubt I would have considered de-escalating when I saw his hand ON his firearm - real or not - the perceived intent sounds to me as though it was to be utilized as a threat.

It doesn't matter where you are - you've got every chance to become a victim.

This reminds me of a conversation I had with my Wife this weekend. We were discussing a new home purchase and she said she wanted to move into a more affluent neighborhood so she could feel safe walking at night.

I told her that was silly, and she was genuinly insulted. To save my hide from the wrath of woman, I quickly asked; If you were a crook looking for someone to make a victim - would you look in a low class neighborhood or would you look for folks with money?

Often times appearing well-to-be makes you the target. Some people perceive that as a weekness.

Truly, though, it does not matter where you are. I was mugged once half a block from a police station in broad daylight while walking with a group of six people. We just happened to all be teens and they happened to be much older, and armed - while we were not.

Anyway, I digress.

I would emphasize, again, that you should file a police report. If you have an altercation with this guy it is good to have established his prior behavior. If you end up shooting him someday - well, having that report is going to help a lot.

If nothing else, this nut-job might kill someone ELSE. How guilty would you feel knowing you had an opportunity to *possibly* prevent that by reporting this incident?

Not something I'd want on my shoulders.

Personally, I applaud your restraint.

Best of luck!

wjv
07-18-2011, 15:05
TAP TAP. TAP TAP. Walk away.

To get away with that you need to:

- leave the body in a DC park
- revolver still in hand BUT
- no fingerprints on gun
- powder-burn patterns from discharged from the front end of a gun
- no blood at site
- no blood or tissue on the gun

Definite Suicide!

barstoolguru
07-18-2011, 15:41
Just out of curiosity, I looked it up. Which site rated Arizona as having the highest death rates by Firearms? BTW, the ones below seem to include suicides.

This one puts Arizona at #5: http://www.statemaster.com/graph/cri_mur_wit_fir-death-rate-per-100-000

This one puts Arizona at #8: http://www.statehealthfacts.org/comparemaptable.jsp?ind=113&cat=2

.

I said one of the highest and the stats are by firearms
Firearms Death Rate per 100,000 (http://www.statemaster.com/graph/cri_mur_wit_fir-death-rate-per-100-000) 18[5th of 51]

open carry is working for them

barstoolguru
07-18-2011, 15:55
Also to those who say I'm a snitch, I don't see how letting the authorities know that the incident happened equates to me being a snitch. He put my life and my 8 year olds life in danger. He obviously can't make big boy decisions. If something were to happen in the future with this individual, I have it on record what happened previously - this is not being a snitch, this is called covering your bases, period.

If you were out walking with your child, and someone pulled this mess on you, you would be absolutely furious.

And you are correct on almost all count....... I am not a cop caller until it needs to be done and if you didn't do it then maybe it was not that bad or you would have. One thing I do is never second guess you decisions and live with the outcome. You did what you had to and you would have drawn your firearm if you felt really threatened

Donn57
07-18-2011, 16:40
I disagree. I see a notable difference between telling somebody you have a gun...while approaching them in a confrontational manner no less...vs carrying in a manner which allows the gun to be seen...while going about your business. Not saying it was a threat or it was illegal, but it IS different.

You're right. It is different, but not a lot and I don't see it as a threat.

AH.74
07-18-2011, 16:48
Not only was he carrying concealed while intoxicated, but he also brandished his weapon. Why you didn't call the police immediately so they could also come out immediately and arrest his foolish ass is escaping me.

I agree that you absolutely must report this. It's not just bad judgment and behavior, it's criminal. He deserves to pay for his stupidity.

Warp
07-18-2011, 16:50
If nothing else I believe his actions warranted the notification of law enforcement. Behavior like that will eventually lead to a serious problem. Better to have it on record if possible

Donn57
07-18-2011, 17:08
The man had his hand on the grip of his gun nearly the entire time with an aggressive lean as if he was ready to draw. Made VERY clear he had a gun. The grip of the gun was printing, 115% a fullsize 1911 in a leather holster OWB - it was visible 1 inch under his shirt line. It was printing so badly, but even more so when his hand pressed against it. Not only did he threaten my life, but an 8 year olds, himself and his SON'S. Stupid.

Since when was walking outside enough to threaten someone with a firearm? We did absolutely NOTHING suspicious.

I bet you an off duty cop would have drawn on him the moment his hand went to his hip.

This to me is a THREAT, period.

Um, I'd like to draw your attention to the following quote from your original post.


The whole time hes yelling I can smell alcohol, it was SO overwhelming on his breath - and I quickly notice he has his left hand on his hip at the 3:30-4:00 position, I can see that there IS a grip there, his hand pressing down on the fabric left a distinct outline of a pistol grip, and a holster buldge under his jeans.

I'll ignore the fact that someone with their left hand on their gun located at 3:30 or 4:00 would have to have pretty long arms and just point out that you've gone from a totally concealed gun presumably in an IWB holster that created a bulge in the guy's jeans to a 1911 in a leather OWB holster that was visible one inch under his shirt.

In either case, however, it would be impossible to draw from a position of gripping the gun through the fabric of the shirt. He would have to release the gun in order to start an actual draw.

As I said before, he was a jerk for being out there drunk, but you weren't comfortable going outside in your "good" neighborhood without letting all and sundry know you were armed, so when he met a stranger lurking around the dumpster (not just walking) with a gun, he was understandably surprised and wanted to let you know that he was also armed.

I doubt the situation would have escalated with an off-duty cop who likely wouldn't have been open carrying and would have identified himself as a cop. The guy only brought up his gun because you were OCing. Placing his hand on his gun through the fabric proved his point while actually putting himself in a position that made it impossible to actually draw.

Add to all this that we only have one side of the story and that side of the story has changed along the way and I'm not willing to accept that this drunk was some kind of lethal threat, unless you maybe lit a match.

doktarZues
07-18-2011, 17:11
While I don’t drink nor would I encourage anyone to carry while they are intoxicated, it is not illegal in Florida to carry while intoxicated.

It is illegal to “use a firearm” while intoxicated (see definition of use below); however, it’s not illegal to use it for the purpose of self-defense.


790.151 Using firearm while under the influence of alcoholic beverages, chemical substances, or controlled substances; penalties.— (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/STATUTES/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0700-0799/0790/Sections/0790.151.html)

(1) As used in ss. 790.151 (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/STATUTES/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0700-0799/0790/Sections/0790.151.html)-790.157 (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/STATUTES/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0700-0799/0790/Sections/0790.157.html), to “use a firearm” means to discharge a firearm or to have a firearm readily accessible for immediate discharge.
(2) For the purposes of this section, “readily accessible for immediate discharge” means loaded and in a person’s hand.
(3) It is unlawful and punishable as provided in subsection (4) for any person who is under the influence of alcoholic beverages, any chemical substance set forth in s. 877.111 (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/STATUTES/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0800-0899/0877/Sections/0877.111.html), or any substance controlled under chapter 893, when affected to the extent that his or her normal faculties are impaired, to use a firearm in this state.
(4) Any person who violates subsection (3) commits a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/STATUTES/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0700-0799/0775/Sections/0775.082.html) or s. 775.083 (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/STATUTES/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0700-0799/0775/Sections/0775.083.html).
(5) This section does not apply to persons exercising lawful self-defense or defense of one’s property.

I suspect that you were simply interjecting some facts to a statement that was painted a bit broader than intended, but I think that given the context of this thread it's impertinent to point out the leniency that Florida provides regarding carrying while intoxicated without something to further qualify the justification.

The law is obviously meant to protect citizens from being charged if they act in lawful self defense while drinking--not to give haven to someone prowling the apartment complex while drunk, armed and clearly aggressive.

kensteele
07-18-2011, 17:30
Hmm, so I guess the Brady's are correct, there will be blood in the streets. Lots of crazies out there carrying firearms threatening people's lives.

Warp
07-18-2011, 17:32
Hmm, so I guess the Brady's are correct, there will be blood in the streets. Lots of crazies out there carrying firearms threatening people's lives.

Yes Ken. That is exactly right. The Brady's know. That is why blood was spilled. Wait...

beatcop
07-18-2011, 19:26
If you have consumed alcohol,

-do not carry a firearm
-do not drive
-do not interrogate other armed persons

What is so hard to understand about this?

If someone stepped out to see if their vehicle was being damaged, fine...look and go back inside. Skip the bs interview and interrogation. If you are intoxicated call the police and let them handle it.

If this story is true, I see it as a fishing trip for a drunk. Asking about the kid, the guys residence, driving around the lot....behavior of the neighborhood bully pissing on his territory.

You know what happens when you indulge a drunk like this? Their position is rationalized in their own mind and is more likely to occur again.

My only suggestion, as previously stated, would be to beat feet right from the start. No conversation, just walk away.

beatcop
07-18-2011, 19:46
I stand behind what I said…. Did anyone pull a gun…NO, was there a threat-YES but to who? Someone walks around with a gun on their hip oc’ing that is going to set up a red flag legal or not. Where they wrong sure but to wreck a man’s life because YOU think he is dangerous is wrong by it self and if the cops came out that is what would have happened. You could have mention that what he was doing is illegal might have defused the situation. Call the management and file a grievance would be right so they know and can act accordingly. There is a time to call the police but not every time the hair on the back of your neck stands up. One last thing about a kid with you, people often have kids with them when steeling they make good lookouts without drawing attention and get into places an adult can’t
They never seen their gun so good luck trying to prove it existed. Just because “I think” or “he said” is not proof of anything


The drunk made his own decisions, not my problem....I could care less about "wrecking his life". Same concept with DUI.

I'm not sure what it means to deem everyone unqualified to pass judgment, but it reminds me of the prison tats the scrots get: "only god can judge me". I'm sure there's some psych major that can enlighten me, but a failure to reach a reasonable conclusion based on clear facts indicates some form of fear of having your own shortcomings judged.

...and lets get real a "complaint" to management does NOTHING....a waste of time.

snowcrash75
07-18-2011, 19:57
And why in god's name would you go out LOOKING to shoot someone, like you're the local sheriff ...

I think it's pretty clear why he didn't call the cops. The sheriff's as violent as the threat, from the sounds of things.

glockeglock
07-18-2011, 20:21
Id have to say... Make friends with this guy, and let him go about his business of patroling for prowlers. This way it makes any stupid thing you might do in the future not look so bad. And with him scareing the crap out of every stranger that gets near the apartments, you can relax and watch TV. LOL

This is actually some pretty world savvy advise here.
Lots of benefits...as long as you don't get stuck inviting him over.

21Carrier
07-18-2011, 20:46
I stand behind what I said…. Did anyone pull a gun…NO, was there a threat-YES but to who? Someone walks around with a gun on their hip oc’ing that is going to set up a red flag legal or not. Where they wrong sure but to wreck a man’s life because YOU think he is dangerous is wrong by it self and if the cops came out that is what would have happened. You could have mention that what he was doing is illegal might have defused the situation. Call the management and file a grievance would be right so they know and can act accordingly. There is a time to call the police but not every time the hair on the back of your neck stands up. One last thing about a kid with you, people often have kids with them when steeling they make good lookouts without drawing attention and get into places an adult can’t
They never seen their gun so good luck trying to prove it existed. Just because “I think” or “he said” is not proof of anything

What ever happened to PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY?!?!?!?!?! Guess what? If YOU decide to drink and carry a gun, YOU DESERVE TO BE CAUGHT AND IMPRISONED!!!!! It sounds to me that you are trying to say the OP would be ruining the drunk guy's life by reporting him. To me, the drunk is ruining his OWN life by making irresponsible decisions. He OBVIOUSLY has no respect for the law or the lives of others. He is nothing short of a menace to society.

He is a grown man, and if he can't follow the laws of his state/country then he deserves to have his life ruined, before he gets the opportunity to END (f'ing END, not ruin, END, OVER, DONE) someone else's life. This is not even mentioning how he can damage OUR rights just by being a moron.

If he gets caught carrying while drunk it is HIS fault, not the OP's. If he makes the choice, he needs to be ready to deal with the consequences. Quit defending criminals. This may SEEM like a minor law to break to you, but he got DANGEROUSLY close to ending an innocent man and child's lives.

And about being a cop caller, I agree there's no need to call because you hear a noise, but a drunk with a gun threatening you? REALLY?! Are we REALLY having this discussion?! That is an innocent person just waiting to die. He has no more respect for life than a rabid dog, and he should be treated accordingly. Call the police and put his ass in a cage.

Absolutely NOTHING good can come from drinking and carrying. However, there are hundreds of opportunities for that scenario to go badly. Drinking and carrying should not be done. Period.

OD Green Glock 19
07-18-2011, 20:55
where is the GNG thread with the member that almost shot a pedophile?
:rofl:

glockeglock
07-19-2011, 00:05
Absolutely NOTHING good can come from drinking and carrying. However, there are hundreds of opportunities for that scenario to go badly. Drinking and carrying should not be done. Period.

Utter stupidity. If you are a NORMAL person. And you carry every day and all day. Then you will eventually have a drink or two or three and have a few too many. Then you will go home...while carrying. Oh the horrors!

It's what you do with the drink and the gun that matters.

And it sounds like the Florida statute, as earlier cited, was written with a sound understanding of that.

The use of the word "period" usually indicates a failure to understand the gray areas of life. Kinda like the gun grabbers who say you don't need a gun in the stadium (period!), but totally forget the walk to and from the stadium.

Warp
07-19-2011, 00:27
If you are a NORMAL person. And you carry every day and all day. Then you will eventually have a drink or two or three and have a few too many.

No, that is just the irresponsible people. It sounds like you fall into that category and are trying to convince us (yourself?) that it is normal.

LongGoneDays
07-19-2011, 01:01
The defending of carrying while consuming alcohol, even to the point of intoxication, is interesting.
Had the OP said "He was calm and 100% sober, but had a joint behind his ear" most of you would be marching to Arizona with lighted torches and pitch forks.

youngvr4
07-19-2011, 01:21
your alive. you handled it right.

Misty02
07-19-2011, 05:57
I suspect that you were simply interjecting some facts to a statement that was painted a bit broader than intended, but I think that given the context of this thread it's impertinent to point out the leniency that Florida provides regarding carrying while intoxicated without something to further qualify the justification.

The law is obviously meant to protect citizens from being charged if they act in lawful self defense while drinking--not to give haven to someone prowling the apartment complex while drunk, armed and clearly aggressive.

You are correct, doktarZues. I was posting in direct response to a statement about Florida where the poster indicated that carrying while intoxicated here would be a class three felony. That isn’t the case and the reason I posted the statute. It has no bearing on the subject of this thread and not applicable to other states, including the one of the OP. My apologies on that one.

My other posts indicate I would have called the police as I would perceive what took place, as explained by the OP, as threatening. I would not be the one to explain to the self appointed patrol guards the error in their ways; I would allow the police to do so.


.

Misty02
07-19-2011, 06:05
Utter stupidity. If you are a NORMAL person. And you carry every day and all day. Then you will eventually have a drink or two or three and have a few too many. Then you will go home...while carrying. Oh the horrors!

It's what you do with the drink and the gun that matters.

And it sounds like the Florida statute, as earlier cited, was written with a sound understanding of that.

The use of the word "period" usually indicates a failure to understand the gray areas of life. Kinda like the gun grabbers who say you don't need a gun in the stadium (period!), but totally forget the walk to and from the stadium.

Florida statute allows me to drink and carry, but I don’t. Not everything that is lawful is right; the opposite is true as well. I drink only a couple of times a year, when I do my pistol goes in the safe. Personal choice, not one mandated by law. I also don’t drive at those times (legal requirement) or operate any tools that can injure me or others (personal choice again).

.

happyguy
07-19-2011, 08:15
What kind of snake was it?

Regards,
Happyguy :)

Reb56
07-19-2011, 08:17
Just think one night someone in the apartment complex is sitting in the privacy of their own home watching the late news and a bullet comes thru their wall and lodges in their head. It could happen; this guy is drunk and patrolling the complex, is his gun loaded with ball ammo or hollow points. In his drunken state is he capable of hitting what he perceives as a BG or will the shot be the one that takes an innocent life. If this was an isolated incidence you handled it well, but if you still see the guy out in the complex “patrolling” something needs to be done for the safety of all. Call the police and let them handle it.

Donn57
07-19-2011, 08:18
Utter stupidity. If you are a NORMAL person. And you carry every day and all day. Then you will eventually have a drink or two or three and have a few too many. Then you will go home...while carrying. Oh the horrors!


Huh?????

GlockVol
07-19-2011, 09:25
You kidding?

Victim = Society

You shouldn't have to be punked out by a drunk with a gun...If the Op's post is accurate, the guy's decision making process was compromised by alcohol. Sorry, not my idea of a gun rights poster child...that's why we have a "carrying while drunk" statute.

yep - it's a oneway, long-stay trip to the pokey in the great state of Tennessee!!!:cop:

GlockVol
07-19-2011, 10:01
Originally Posted by barstoolguru http://glocktalk.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=17647497#post17647497)
who checks their mail late at night anyway

If ever there was a doubt regarding your troll status, this settles it. :rofl:

THIS ^ - Brevity and wit are the main constituents of intellect…

LongGoneDays
07-19-2011, 10:03
What kind of snake was it?

Regards,
Happyguy :)



The kind that likes to start gunfights.

glockeglock
07-19-2011, 13:38
No, that is just the irresponsible people. It sounds like you fall into that category and are trying to convince us (yourself?) that it is normal.

Well, superior one, here's how I see it:

1a) It is irresponsible to drive somewhere, drink and drive home.
1b) It is responsible to drive somewhere, drink and take a cab home.

2a) It is irresponsible to carry somewhere, drink and wander a parking lot looking for bad guys.
2b) It is responsible to carry somewhere, drink and keep you hands off your gun while getting home. (very simple actually)

For those who say they just would not drink while carrying, either do not always carry, never drink, or have a limited social life. Cheers to all, but not everyone is playing at being as groovy as you.

Warp
07-19-2011, 13:51
Well, superior one, here's how I see it:

1a) It is irresponsible to drive somewhere, drink and drive home.
1b) It is responsible to drive somewhere, drink and take a cab home.

2a) It is irresponsible to carry somewhere, drink and wander a parking lot looking for bad guys.
2b) It is responsible to carry somewhere, drink and keep you hands off your gun while getting home. (very simple actually)

For those who say they just would not drink while carrying, either do not always carry, never drink, or have a limited social life. Cheers to all, but not everyone is playing at being as groovy as you.


You left out an option.

Utter stupidity. If you are a NORMAL person. And you carry every day and all day. Then you will eventually have a drink or two or three and have a few too many. Then you will go home...while carrying. Oh the horrors!

It's what you do with the drink and the gun that matters.

And it sounds like the Florida statute, as earlier cited, was written with a sound understanding of that.

The use of the word "period" usually indicates a failure to understand the gray areas of life. Kinda like the gun grabbers who say you don't need a gun in the stadium (period!), but totally forget the walk to and from the stadium.


3) Is it irresponsible to carry and have a drink or two or three and have a few too many



It is in fact very easy to carry and not "have a few too many" at the same time. VERY easy.

mudrush
07-19-2011, 14:54
I have been in two situations over the years, somewhat different than yours.

One I called the police, one I didn't. I had to draw directly one time and one time just go to low ready.

I second guessed myself about both many times, and others second guessed me on the last one right here on this forum.

But the bottom line is there is no text book response. It's all on the fly.

You kept a cool head and didn't have to shoot anyone.

You were able to deescalate a bad situation.

You and your son are alive. You did all you could do.

That's all you can expect in a situation like this one.

barstoolguru
07-19-2011, 16:42
cops drink and carry all the time but no one is burning a cross on their lawns and don't stand there and say they never get aggressive when they do(proof below). I see cops drink and drive all the time at the bars. People drink and carry guns all the time and nothing happens so why is everyone thinking this guy is such a threat to society because he went out and checked someone. Like I said before; no guns were drawn and no crime was committed bad enough to warrant the cops

http://www.break.com/index/chicago_cop_beats_up_female_bartender.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wiTxBPRf1nk

http://filmdrunk.uproxx.com/2011/01/gang-of-punisher-obsessed-cops-beat-up-black-gu

Warp
07-19-2011, 16:45
so why is everyone thinking this guy is such a threat to society

His actions. (assuming OP's statements are accurate)

Misty02
07-19-2011, 17:50
cops drink and carry all the time but no one is burning a cross on their lawns and don't stand there and say they never get aggressive when they do(proof below). I see cops drink and drive all the time at the bars. People drink and carry guns all the time and nothing happens so why is everyone thinking this guy is such a threat to society because he went out and checked someone. Like I said before; no guns were drawn and no crime was committed bad enough to warrant the cops

http://www.break.com/index/chicago_cop_beats_up_female_bartender.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wiTxBPRf1nk

http://filmdrunk.uproxx.com/2011/01/gang-of-punisher-obsessed-cops-beat-up-black-gu

Here is the thing; you don’t do things you know to be wrong just because someone else does them. It’s bad enough to have some individuals exercise poor judgment, to that you wish to add a bunch of others doing the same thing because that other one did? Heck, my children used to get double punishment whenever they used “so and so did it too!” as part of their defense. (I can't believe I'm explaining this to an adult!)

Second, you don’t lessen the penalties for regular citizens because they drive intoxicated, what you do is pose higher penalties for officers that are found in any way shape or form intoxicated while on duty. Same penalties as the rest of us while off duty.

As for carrying a loaded firearm while intoxicated, it is allowed in Florida and thus that part (by itself) wouldn’t be an issue. The threatening/ intimidating interrogatory by a belligerent drunk would be.

....... and I would be the first person calling the police right after I was at a safe location and away from that guy.

.

Patchman
07-19-2011, 18:00
cops drink and carry all the time but no one is burning a cross on their lawns and don't stand there and say they never get aggressive when they do(proof below). I see cops drink and drive all the time at the bars.




Sigh.

"I see cops do this-and-that all the time..."

When did you last see an off-duty, drunk cop, hiding behind a dumpster, in the dark, aggressively accusing a passer-by of being a pedophile?

Nice diversion. :dunno:

beatcop
07-19-2011, 18:07
cops drink and carry all the time but no one is burning a cross on their lawns and don't stand there and say they never get aggressive when they do(proof below). I see cops drink and drive all the time at the bars. People drink and carry guns all the time and nothing happens so why is everyone thinking this guy is such a threat to society because he went out and checked someone. Like I said before; no guns were drawn and no crime was committed bad enough to warrant the cops

http://www.break.com/index/chicago_cop_beats_up_female_bartender.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wiTxBPRf1nk

http://filmdrunk.uproxx.com/2011/01/gang-of-punisher-obsessed-cops-beat-up-black-gu

Some do....and they are WRONG.

Everyone rationalizes their own behavior...especially when it flies in the face of common sense. They "know" better than those kooky folks that are judging their choices. After all, they've done it their whole life....what are the chances something will happen?

-co-workers kid had a few last week, moved handgun from trunk to glovebox...would be "safer" there..."unloaded" it and shot himself in the leg. Who woulda thunk?

You know what? Probably everyone has had a beer while handling, carrying, etc....but if you think that this is a good idea and have absoulutely no problem with it, you are only fooling yourself. Hell, I'm going to do it...public service announcement: "Alcohol and drugs compromise motor functions and thought processes". There's a reason pilots, medical professionals, truckers, etc have legal limits as to what they can have in their system....because their negligence can cause DEATH!!

In court they will establish that your behavior:

-characterized by the creation of a substantial and unjustifiable risk of harm to others and by a conscious (and sometime deliberate) disregard for or indifference to that risk

barstoolguru
07-19-2011, 18:41
Sigh.

"I see cops do this-and-that all the time..."

When did you last see an off-duty, drunk cop, hiding behind a dumpster, in the dark, aggressively accusing a passer-by of being a pedophile?

Nice diversion. :dunno:

well if it was so "OMG scary" why didn't they call the cops after seeing him out there three times ... why because it wasn't as bad as it is made out to be or they would have.

quote: At this point the guy removes his hand from his hip, and starts to kind of calm down. He explains to us that his son's car is a "high target" for theft, and that he thought we were going to steal someones vehicle

this does not sound like a major threat to me. just someone that got a little over Zealous

quote from beatcop: You know what? Probably everyone has had a beer while handling, carrying, etc..(this includes you too?)..but if you think that this is a good idea and have absoulutely no problem with it, you are only fooling yourself. Hell, I'm going to do it...public service announcement: "Alcohol and drugs compromise motor functions and thought processes". There's a reason pilots, medical professionals, truckers, etc have legal limits as to what they can have in their system....because their negligence can cause DEATH!!

I say it again "IT IS NOT A GOOD IDEA TO DRINK AND HANDLE FIREARMS" but even a person that drinks and has been around firearms has some common sence and a good idea of safe handling

quote: I can see that there IS a grip there, his hand pressing down on the fabric left a distinct outline of a pistol grip, and a holster buldge under his jeans.

do you really see someone with their hand pressing down over fabric a threat.... sounds more like a show of equality since he has already seen his...... like I said some people need to get out in the real world more often

Patchman
07-19-2011, 18:56
Hey Barstool, where you're at, the last time some LEO was arrested for DWI, did you defend the cop by noting that it's okay he/she drove drunk because all the time cops see DWIs skate through the revolving doors of justice, so it's OK for the cop to do so, too.

And if you've never defended a cop like that, will you do so the next time one is arrested for DWI? "They see it all the time so they should be allowed to also... it's OK..."

But whatever you choose to do, please just don't tell me it's a one way standard.

barstoolguru
07-19-2011, 19:08
Hey Barstool, where you're at, the last time some LEO was arrested for DWI, did you defend the cop by noting that it's okay he/she drove drunk because all the time cops see DWIs skate through the revolving doors of justice, so it's OK for the cop to do so, too.



no, they should be held to the same standards as the rest of us and like the rest of us they take their chances when they stop for a beer after a hard day on the job.

What you need to do is ask your self is why do we give a bar a liquor license when we know that people are going to drive home after drinking?

Patchman
07-19-2011, 19:18
Sigh.

"I see cops do this-and-that all the time..."

When did you last see an off-duty, drunk cop, hiding behind a dumpster, in the dark, aggressively accusing a passer-by of being a pedophile?

Nice diversion. :dunno:

well if it was so "OMG scary" why didn't they call the cops after seeing him out there three times ... why because it wasn't as bad as it is made out to be or they would have.

I say it again "IT IS NOT A GOOD IDEA TO DRINK AND HANDLE FIREARMS" but even a person that drinks and has been around firearms has some common sence and a good idea of safe handling

So if a cop has a drink or three and gets behind the wheel to drive home, and if no one else on that road feels the need to call 9-1-1, then it's OK the cop is driving DWI?

Obviously cops have very good ideas on safe driving. They're even specially trained for high stress, high speed driving.

Actually, I like the idea that the cop should get a pass. :cool:

Misty02
07-19-2011, 19:36
So if a cop has a drink or three and gets behind the wheel to drive home, and if no one else on that road feels the need to call 9-1-1, then it's OK the cop is driving DWI?

Obviously cops have very good ideas on safe driving. They're even specially trained for high stress, high speed driving.

Actually, I like the idea that the cop should get a pass. :cool:

Ahem!!!

Patchman
07-19-2011, 19:41
no, they should be held to the same standards as the rest of us and like the rest of us they take their chances when they stop for a beer after a hard day on the job.

What you need to do is ask your self is why do we give a bar a liquor license when we know that people are going to drive home after drinking?

I understand now.

In a number of jurisdiction, if a drunk patron continues to be served alcohol, the barkeep is held legally responsible.

And ask ourselves why liquor stores are allowed to open up. And allowed to sell as much liquor to one customer as that customer can afford.

Patchman
07-19-2011, 19:47
Ahem!!!

Yes, mother. Sorry, mother. Perhaps I typed too quickly. :embarassed:

barstoolguru
07-19-2011, 19:56
So if a cop has a drink or three and gets behind the wheel to drive home, and if no one else on that road feels the need to call 9-1-1, then it's OK the cop is driving DWI?

Obviously cops have very good ideas on safe driving. They're even specially trained for high stress, high speed driving.

Actually, I like the idea that the cop should get a pass. :cool:

the standard is for every one and no one is above the law now if some one stops him and lets him/her go that is a different story and I am sure it happens

wnr700
07-19-2011, 20:15
Very frightening situation. I can see him doing a stake out

If you have to live in the complex with the guy, calling the cops may only stir the pot and create tension down the road.

I probably would not have detoured to check the mail, and just got back to the house.

The term "boy" troubles me... confrontational, racist, profiling... he was trying to trigger a response.

Patchman
07-19-2011, 20:15
the standard is for every one and no one is above the law now if some one stops him and lets him/her go that is a different story and I am sure it happens

But you outlined 2 standards. The first is that regardless of what one does, if no third party feels the need to call 9-1-1, then the act is OK.

The second standard is, "even a person that drinks and has been around firearms has some common sence and a good idea of safe handling," that makes it OK also.

Warp
07-19-2011, 20:18
I probably would not have detoured to check the mail

Why would you not get your mail?

JuneyBooney
07-19-2011, 20:27
So last night I decided to take my 8 year old stepson for a walk down to circle-K to get a few things.

We live in an apartment complex, in a very good part of town, where there's rarely any crime. We were heading out the complex and my step son sees something next to a dumpster and wants to check it out with his new surefire flashlight that I bought him. We're standing there looking at a dead snake, and my boy turns and says, "there's someone behind the dumpster." So I kind of peek around the dumpster to look, see two faces looking at us - so I tug on my sons shirt and say lets go.

I hear "What can I help you with?" in a southern accent. My stepson says "Nothing we're okay, thanks." and we start heading towards circle K.

We get back to the complex, and I decide to go check my mail - I had just pulled my mail out of my mailbox and I hear "HEY, HEY YOU, YOU LIVE HERE BOY? HEY!" really aggressive.

(By the way I'm open carrying my g26 appendix because it's hot out and my grip had just been stippled, so my undershirt was protecting my skin)

Theres 2 guys, quickly approaching us, obviously agitated.

The first thing he does is says "IS THAT GUN REGISTERED, YOU ALLOWED TO CARRY THAT GUN, WHY DO YOU HAVE A GUN?" I answered "I'm a law abiding citizen of Arizona, and as such I do not need a permit, nor do I need to 'register' my guns, what can I help you with??"
"WELL I GOT A GUN TOO, I WANT TO KNOW WHY YOUR OUT HERE SNEAKING AROUND WITH A YOUNG BOY!, YOU LIVE HERE? YOU BREAKING INTO CARS? WHERE DO YOU LIVE?? I WAS GOING TO CALL THE COPS BUT WE CAME OUT TO FIND YEH"

The whole time hes yelling I can smell alcohol, it was SO overwhelming on his breath - and I quickly notice he has his left hand on his hip at the 3:30-4:00 position, I can see that there IS a grip there, his hand pressing down on the fabric left a distinct outline of a pistol grip, and a holster buldge under his jeans. At this point I went from high alert to full on SHTF alert. I moved and at the same time grabbed and positioned my son behind me.

My first thought is something along the lines of "This guy is drunk, he thinks he's some kind of pedophile hunting vigilante, out to find trouble and shoot his hand cannon. He obviously doesn't know the laws, probably doesn't know much about guns, I've got more training then him, and hes drunk.. watch the hands.. watch his hands..."

At this point I feel a little better, knowing I have the advantage.

And then I'm thinking "Don't raise your voice, don't get upset, de-escalate the situation and agree with this guy"

I slowly moved my hand up to my pocket (I carry at the 1:30/2ish position appendix, so it was 2-3 inches from my grip just in case.

I explain to him what we were doing, why, and who we were.

He turns to my son and asks, "Are you okay? Is this your daddy? Are you sure you're okay, wheres your mommy?"
My son responds to him in a kind of 'you're an idiot, don't talk to me' kind of tone "Yes hes my stepdad, and I'm okay.. we were just walking..??, which looking back is pretty hilarious.

At this point the guy removes his hand from his hip, and starts to kind of calm down. He explains to us that his son's car is a "high target" for theft, and that he thought we were going to steal someones vehicle (there were no cars anywhere near us at the time). He says "This is my son, so and so - the kid looked SO embarrassed, he had to have been 16-18. He had this "my dad is a complete moron" look on his face. He explained that we looked super suspicious, and again repeated that he didn't call the police, because he wanted to find us first.

Anyways, I don't remember every detail of the conversation but eventually I said we had to go and that was that. I have his apartment number, I think I may mention something to the front office, that there's a vigilante neighborhood watch nutcase that runs around DRUNK with a loaded firearm. I went out with my wife to walk our two dogs, and the guy and his son were in their big truck driving around the apartment complex OUT ON THE PROWL! CATCH THEM SOME BAD GUYZ! They were out there driving around for atleast an hour... pathetic.

I truly believe if I hadn't of handled the conversation the way I did, and acted submissive/calm, that he absolutely would have fired off shots. No doubt in my mind. Absolutely mindblowing this guy..

I remember very clearly picturing my stepson getting shot, and instantly my brain going to "calm him down, calm him down.. de-escalate.."

I'm so shocked - I had alot of trouble sleeping last night from the adrenaline rush. It was a very interesting experience to say the least.

I'm confused as to how he came to the conclusion that he did. Why would someone that was well dressed, and well groomed, OC'ing, be breaking into cars WITH AN 8 YEAR OLD, in a WELL lit area, with NO CARS around to break into. I'm dumbfounded.

And why in god's name would you go out LOOKING to shoot someone, like you're the local sheriff - He didn't know me, if he was SO concerned about me, then the last thing he should have done was track me down. It could have ended ALOT differently for him and his son if I had been the nutcase pedophile car thief gangbanger he thought I was... stupidity.
Scary =(

My wife suggested to leave it alone, and if anything just report it to the office management. Do you guys think I should report it to the police or just leave it be? I do have his apartment number.. I just think his behavior was EXTREMELY dangerous, he was ready and willing to shoot me, no doubt. Whatcha think?

Why not just say, "looking at a snake" and be done with it? Now if you are not known to him he may be curious. It happens. My gf's dad is in his seventies and was hassled by another ole man because cars were being broken into in the neighborhood. 70 yr old white men don't break into cars. :rofl:Glad you didn't get shot but don't always think that the best trained "wins". Not true in real life at all.Good luck in your "snake" hunting.

Jade Falcon
07-19-2011, 20:34
You should have called the cops on him, right away. I personally think it's extremely dangerous for drunk people to carry loaded firearms and he should've been put away and not allowed to own firearms anymore. But by the time you tell the cops it'll be too late for them to catch him under the exact same circumstances, man. It would've been perfect if you called them right then after you got in your apt safely.

This. As to "why he thought you'd be out with an 8-year-old breaking into cars", hello? He was drunk bro. Drunks don't rely on logic.

Misty02
07-19-2011, 20:41
Yes, mother. Sorry, mother. Perhaps I typed too quickly. :embarassed:


:rofl::rofl::rofl:Not what I was thinking when I typed that, but I admit the misinterpretation makes it funnier (for me).

.

barstoolguru
07-19-2011, 20:44
Most criminals do.

there is 3 ways for a cop to get promoted

1) write tickets
2) solve crimes
3) arrest people

Guess what looks good in their file.... when a cop arrests people it is job security... no promotions for letting people go

Misty02
07-19-2011, 20:54
Let me help, please. I’ll go ahead and take this now….


217871

OD Green Glock 19
07-19-2011, 21:09
quote: At this point the guy removes his hand from his hip, and starts to kind of calm down. He explains to us that his son's car is a "high target" for theft, and that he thought we were going to steal someones vehicle

this does not sound like a major threat to me. just someone that got a little over Zealous





I find it funny that you defend your position that he wasn't threatening by pointing out that he calmed down and took his hand off of his gun. This implies that beforehand he was worked up and brandishing his firearm.

I don't know why you have decided, based on the information provided by the OP, that the drunk vigilante's actions are worth defending. Maybe we are only getting one side of the story, but I find it interesting that you have jumped to the conclusion that the OP overreacted, decided that the drunk vigilante's actions are worth defending and you've even taken it upon yourself to blame the victim (He had no business checking his mail at night! He was asking for it!)

OD Green Glock 19
07-19-2011, 21:18
there is 3 ways for a cop to get promoted

1) write tickets
2) solve crimes
3) arrest people

Guess what looks good in their file.... when a cop arrests people it is job security... no promotions for letting people go
:rofl:I get it now...

ferretray
07-19-2011, 21:30
To destroy a man’s life because he had a moment of stupidity is wrong. To compare this to a drunk driver is equally wrong. A drunk driver is not a felony and does not destroy your life, just makes it difficult for a while. This man will get a felony conviction for doing something stupid that will affect him the rest of his life in job, voting, credit and many other ways. A DWI does not do that and Too many things are felonies nowadays.
What to know what I mean…… take Texas….as much as 25% of Dallas county is on parole or probation at any given time. What it tells me is that crime is a money maker to the state and not just a punishment so the more crime the more money the system makes

You've got to be the single most clueless individual I've had the displeasure to hear from on the many firearms forums I frequent.
To think you're running loose here in the DFW area. :upeyes:

Donn57
07-19-2011, 21:32
Well, superior one, here's how I see it:

1a) It is irresponsible to drive somewhere, drink and drive home.
1b) It is responsible to drive somewhere, drink and take a cab home.

2a) It is irresponsible to carry somewhere, drink and wander a parking lot looking for bad guys.
2b) It is responsible to carry somewhere, drink and keep you hands off your gun while getting home. (very simple actually)

For those who say they just would not drink while carrying, either do not always carry, never drink, or have a limited social life. Cheers to all, but not everyone is playing at being as groovy as you.

I have two words for you. Or rather two letters. AA

Warp
07-19-2011, 21:57
I have two words for you. Or rather two letters. AA

You may be on to something

beatcop
07-20-2011, 19:53
quote from beatcop: You know what? Probably everyone has had a beer while handling, carrying, etc..(this includes you too?)..but if you think that this is a good idea and have absoulutely no problem with it, you are only fooling yourself. Hell, I'm going to do it...public service announcement: "Alcohol and drugs compromise motor functions and thought processes". There's a reason pilots, medical professionals, truckers, etc have legal limits as to what they can have in their system....because their negligence can cause DEATH!!

I say it again "IT IS NOT A GOOD IDEA TO DRINK AND HANDLE FIREARMS" but even a person that drinks and has been around firearms has some common sence and a good idea of safe handling (<----Are you serious?? Safe handling?)

quote: I can see that there IS a grip there, his hand pressing down on the fabric left a distinct outline of a pistol grip, and a holster buldge under his jeans.

[COLOR=red][COLOR=red][FONT=Verdana]do you really see someone with their hand pressing down over fabric a threat.... sounds more like a show of equality since he has already seen his...... like I said some people need to get out in the real world more often


1. I just ask that you read the part highlighted in blue a few times and think about it.

2. Sure, you can play the odds with alcohol and guns. If something stupid occurs, maybe even unrelated to the alcohol, you may end up in court, sued, etc.

3. It's risk management, we have been nipping at the edges of the issues, but the factors are: Death/serious inj results when a bullet hits you, alcohol increases the liklihood of an accident, there's no way to mitigate the risk reliably. The risk is unjustifiable and the possible damage is catastrophic.

4. I am not above judgment or mistakes, but this comes down to the same things that causes our issues in life: ignorance, lack of discipline, indifference. When a person refuses to acknowledge a "fact", cannot control their behavior, and doesn't really care about the possible effects, you have a nice recipe for failure....."I didn't know it could happen". Sure you did, you just didn't care about anything else, but your buzz.

5. When some fool places his hand over his firearm (while covered by a shirt or otherwise), to conduct an inquiry that a reasonable person who isn't drunk wouldn't initiate, I can only guess that he's trying to punk me out with a show of force, reserve the right to pull it out while covered, provoke a reaction from me, let me know that the ball is in his court, freeze me in place for interrogation, etc...

I'm not familiar with the open carry culture out there, but I'm guessing there's some form of etiquette among the thinking population. Don't put your hand on the grip unless you are planning on actually pulling it out or I may reasonably conclude you are drawing and initiate fire.

barstoolguru
07-21-2011, 03:34
Read what I wrote in red, just because someone has a couple of beers do not make them a total idiot. Does it increase your chances of having an accident, sure but it also increases your chance for a paper cut too but you can't be that safety Gestapo for everyone. The fact of the matter is that the man did not pull his gun and yes it was a show of force. I would have done the same thing

quote:I say it again "IT IS NOT A GOOD IDEA TO DRINK AND HANDLE FIREARMS" but even a person that drinks and has been around firearms has some common sence and a good idea of safe handling (<----Are you serious?? Safe handling?) booze doesn't make you stupid just a little more relaxed



You keep talking safety, what bothers me is the person writing this did he exaggerate the facts a little. What man walks an 8 year old to the store at 9.40 pm for a slurpee with a gun strapped to his hip? He claims it’s a safe neighborhood but then again carries a gun in open view. Was this a show of force or showing off, sure sounds like it to me? If he was so scared that he has to carry a gun to start with, why would you tip your hand and have it in plain sight and loose the element of surprise? Open carry laws are not for some guy to play wild bill Hickok and draw attention to himself but more for the rancher or farm hand and to slow the pace of people calling in because some guy’s gun prints or shows.

Misty02
07-21-2011, 05:29
I’m sorry to tell you but booze does make people stupid. Inhibitions, logic, common sense and prudence are the first to go out the window. Most fights involving drunks start because someone did or said something stupid. Additionally, alcohol affects different people in different ways.

My experience with drinking is limited, yet I know enough about its effect on me to know that in addition to getting all giggly my tongue gets rather loose. The main reason I would only drink while in the company of people I really like and in someone’s home is because I develop a tendency to tell others exactly what is on my mind, the common sense sensor between my brain and my mouth disappears. Others do far worse with alcohol in their system.

Have you seen some people drive while they are intoxicated? If you had you would realize that driving safely and defensively is no longer in their bag of tricks. Sadly, if you ask them they’ll insist that they are just fine (when they’re not).

Considering that the OP is in an OC state and it’s something they practice there but something I personally know nothing about I would not comment on that. No doubt others that know more about it will.

.

LongGoneDays
07-21-2011, 08:27
I'm not even going to try quoting and sizing down that rainbow of make believe on a cellphone.
What kind of person questions a man's motive about time of day/carry method and in the same breath fully supports the "right" to drink while carrying?

Tell us more. Tell us about your mudza. I'm genuinely curious. Too much bad cholesterol. Not enough good? Is it being from Texas that no open carry is engrained in your soul?

happyguy
07-21-2011, 08:48
I am an evil and irresponsible danger to society. I had a Corona Extra last night with supper at the local Mexican restaurant.

You guys are lucky you weren't around. I might have accidentally shot you. [/sarcasm]

Regards,
Happyguy :)

David Armstrong
07-21-2011, 08:58
from beatcop:
There's a reason pilots, medical professionals, truckers, etc have legal limits as to what they can have in their system....because their negligence can cause DEATH!!
To expand a bit, there is also a reason many professions prohibit ANY consumption of alcohol within a certain time limit before working. Even one drink will impact your ability to perform many tasks. It will slow your reactions as well as reduce dexterity. I'm not sure either of those is a good thing when carrying a gun.

Misty02
07-21-2011, 09:03
I am an evil and irresponsible danger to society. I had a Corona Extra last night with supper at the local Mexican restaurant.

You guys are lucky you weren't around. I might have accidentally shot you. [/sarcasm]

Regards,
Happyguy :)


I’m not a drinker, but even I see nothing wrong with a beer or a glass of wine with a full meal. More than that or without food would be another issue.

.

David Armstrong
07-21-2011, 09:11
no, they should be held to the same standards as the rest of us and like the rest of us they take their chances when they stop for a beer after a hard day on the job.

What you need to do is ask your self is why do we give a bar a liquor license when we know that people are going to drive home after drinking?
Because it is not illegal to drink, nor is it illegal to drive after drinking. It is illegal to drive when one has drank enough to reach a level of impairment that society has decided creates a specific level of danger to others on the road.

barstoolguru
07-21-2011, 09:15
Because it is not illegal to drink, nor is it illegal to drive after drinking. It is illegal to drive when one has drank enough to reach a level of impairment that society has decided creates a specific level of danger to others on the road.

I am not sure where you are at but in most if not all states one beer will make you illegal to drive or carry a gun

David Armstrong
07-21-2011, 09:17
I’m not a drinker, but even I see nothing wrong with a beer or a glass of wine with a full meal. More than that or without food would be another issue.

.

That is actually an interesting myth. Food doesn't keep you from being effected by the alcohol, it just slows down the effect. But you are still going to reach the same level of intoxication. Coffee too....you don't sober up from coffee, you just get a wide-awake drunk!:supergrin:

David Armstrong
07-21-2011, 09:20
I am not sure where you are at but in most if not all states one beer will make you illegal to drive or carry a gun
HUH?? Determination on driving is based on perceived impairment or presumptive BAC, not on "how many X did you drink." Plenty of folks can drink one beer and not fail the SFST or reach the presumption levels.

barstoolguru
07-21-2011, 09:29
HUH?? Determination on driving is based on perceived impairment or presumptive BAC, not on "how many X did you drink." Plenty of folks can drink one beer and not fail the SFST or reach the presumption levels.

one beer you will blow a .08 and that is dui

Misty02
07-21-2011, 09:30
That is actually an interesting myth. Food doesn't keep you from being effected by the alcohol, it just slows down the effect. But you are still going to reach the same level of intoxication. Coffee too....you don't sober up from coffee, you just get a wide-awake drunk!:supergrin:


:rofl::rofl:Ok.....Back off, mister! I know little to nothing about drinking other than the fact that I don’t like drunks. So there! :tongueout:


That is, unless that drunk is me at New Years. For those I stay at my daughter’s house (or ours) where I know that regardless how obnoxious I get no one present will be tempted to end their misery on a permanent basis by taking me out (at least I hope).


.

Taurus851
07-21-2011, 09:30
one beer you will blow a .08 and that is dui

maybe if you drink an imperial stout at 11% alcohol and weigh 120, but not 1 coors light

David Armstrong
07-21-2011, 09:37
one beer you will blow a .08 and that is dui
Let's see here now. I'm a DUI Detection and Apprehension Instructor and an SFST Trainer, and have been involved with hundreds of actual BAC tests over the years, many under controlled conditions. And one beer will not make you blow a .08. For a person who weighs 140 pounds and drinks one 12-ounce beer we would expect their maximum intoxication level to be approximately a .03. If you are 180 pounds we would expect that to drop to a .02.

tecate321
07-21-2011, 09:46
The circle k...is it the one on Oracle rd next to Jiffy Lube?

David Armstrong
07-21-2011, 09:49
:rofl::rofl:Ok.....Back off, mister! I know little to nothing about drinking other than the fact that I don’t like drunks. So there! :tongueout:


That is, unless that drunk is me at New Years. For those I stay at my daughter’s house (or ours) where I know that regardless how obnoxious I get no one present will be tempted to end their misery on a permanent basis by taking me out (at least I hope).


.



If it makes you feel better, as a woman you will get drunker faster than a guy but will also sober up faster.:drinkie:

wnr700
07-21-2011, 09:59
I have done too many really stupid things while under the influence.

I would never carry while drinking one beer... much less a six pack.

Though no longer a drinker, when occasionally partaking, I weigh 190 and feel buzzed after I complete my second beer... maybe it was the huge consumption rate between ages 18 to 28 that skews my tolerence.

In South Carolina you cannot carry into a bar or dining establishment serving alchohol.

I can't imagine mixing alchohol and guns.

Warp
07-21-2011, 10:28
I am not sure where you are at but in most if not all states one beer will make you illegal to drive or carry a gun

One beer? :rofl:

Mayhem like Me
07-21-2011, 10:36
If it makes you feel better, as a woman you will get drunker faster than a guy but will also sober up faster.:drinkie:

not true at all don't know where you went to instructor school alcohol does not leave a woman's body faster, due to weight and metabolism it has been shown that it stays in their system longer as well.

tsmo1066
07-21-2011, 10:52
Not sure about other states, but in Texas, if you're carrying concealed it is a violation for you to have any detectable level of alcohol in your system.

Im Protected
07-21-2011, 10:57
Ask any Cop, and he or she will tell you, if you make it home at night and didn't have to shot anybody and didn't get shot at, it was a great day. You handled it in a way that got you and your son home safely. Let’s just hope that never happens again.

Warp
07-21-2011, 11:01
Ask any Cop, and he or she will tell you, if you make it home at night and didn't have to shot anybody and didn't get shot at, it was a great day. You handled it in a way that got you and your son home safely. Let’s just hope that never happens again.

Might there be some kind of action that could help keep this from happening again, and happening to other people, rather than simply hoping?

David Armstrong
07-21-2011, 11:01
not true at all don't know where you went to instructor school alcohol does not leave a woman's body faster, due to weight and metabolism it has been shown that it stays in their system longer as well.
You are completely correct. I did that off the top of my head and somehow reversed it. Mea culpa, and I plead incipient Alzheimer's!:supergrin:

barstoolguru
07-21-2011, 11:23
You are completely correct. I did that off the top of my head and somehow reversed it. Mea culpa, and I plead incipient Alzheimer's!:supergrin:

And I do agree with you that some people have a higher Torrance to alcoholic. Me I can drink a 12 pack before I start to feel anything. We are what I call functioning alcoholics; alcoholics that can do things when we drink other then stumble in to a stupor. Some people can drink a few beers and drive with reasonable care as well as handle a gun and some can’t. The problem here is that we all get thrown in the same group because there is no way of weeding out the ones that can’t function so everyone has a one track mind when it comes to drinking and doing anything especially non or once in a blue moon drinkers

Warp
07-21-2011, 11:25
Some people can drink a few beers and drive with reasonable care

IMO "some people" need to be locked up, permanently, before their stupidity gets somebody else injured or killed.

SCmasterblaster
07-21-2011, 11:26
And I do agree with you that some people have a higher Torrance to alcoholic. Me I can drink a 12 pack before I start to feel anything. We are what I call functioning alcoholics; alcoholics that can do things when we drink other then stumble in to a stupor. Some people can drink a few beers and drive with reasonable care as well as handle a gun and some can’t. The problem here is that we all get thrown in the same group because there is no way of weeding out the ones that can’t function so everyone has a one track mind when it comes to drinking and doing anything especially non or once in a blue moon drinkers

A 12-pack? You must be highly resistant to alcohol!

John Rambo
07-21-2011, 11:44
A 12-pack? You must be highly resistant to alcohol!

A 12 pack is quite a tall order. But for lifetime drinkers, they learn how to function drunk. Its just like functioning high, just why a first time drunk is going to be obnoxious or why a first time stoner can sit there spaced while a longtime smoker can function perfectly. Same thing as drunk driving, too. The more you do it, the better you get at it.

SCmasterblaster
07-21-2011, 11:47
A 12 pack is quite a tall order. But for lifetime drinkers, they learn how to function drunk. Its just like functioning high, just why a first time drunk is going to be obnoxious or why a first time stoner can sit there spaced while a longtime smoker can function perfectly. Same thing as drunk driving, too. The more you do it, the better you get at it.

I wonder what the blood alcohol level is after a 12-pack?

21Carrier
07-21-2011, 11:56
Utter stupidity. If you are a NORMAL person. And you carry every day and all day. Then you will eventually have a drink or two or three and have a few too many. Then you will go home...while carrying. Oh the horrors!

It's what you do with the drink and the gun that matters.

And it sounds like the Florida statute, as earlier cited, was written with a sound understanding of that.

The use of the word "period" usually indicates a failure to understand the gray areas of life. Kinda like the gun grabbers who say you don't need a gun in the stadium (period!), but totally forget the walk to and from the stadium.

It sounds like you are either too young to own a gun, and fully realize the ramifications of such, or have a drinking problem. I AM normal, and I DO carry every day. I am also pretty young, being 28. I go out a good bit, but I have almost quit drinking completely because I would rather carry. If I DO decide to drink, I hide my G29 under the back seat of my car.

I went to the University of Alabama, so I have PLENTY of personal experience with drinking. Drunk people (myself included) are irresponsible, irrational, argumentative, aggressive, and instinctual. NONE of those traits mix well with guns. If you don't think that applies to you, you are in denial. I agree that one or two beers (maybe even 3-4) does not cause someone to become totally irrational, and they MAY be sober enough to carry a gun, but the exact number is, as you say, a "gray area". It would likely be 3-4 beers for me, but only 1-2 for someone else. That's why the only responsible answer is to not allow guns and alcohol to mix.

If you've been drinking long enough, and it sounds like you have, I'm sure you've been in quite a few drunken arguments that would not have happened when sober. Now, think what might have happened if you, or the other guy, had a gun. Would you be alive today? Would you have been killed by some moron that you bumped into? I can personally think of at least two times where I was drunk, and would have drawn my gun on someone. That's scary. They weren't real issues, but in my drunken stupor, I thought they were. I was under 21, and didn't have a gun, thank the laws.

The bottom line is that YOU ARE NOT IN CONTROL WHEN YOU'RE DRUNK. You might THINK you are, especially while sitting on the computer SOBER, but you are wrong. I know I will never drink and carry. I don't want to kill someone because I was drunk. I also don't want to go to jail (which is what would happen). I would rather just not drink. And on the very few occasions I do drink, my gun will not be on me. Both of those options sound better than being anally raped by fellow inmates.

barstoolguru
07-21-2011, 11:58
A 12-pack? You must be highly resistant to alcohol!

I have been known to drink a quart of rum in a night and do the horizontal mumbo...........:rofl:

barstoolguru
07-21-2011, 12:00
IMO "some people" need to be locked up, permanently, before their stupidity gets somebody else injured or killed.

all I can say to you is you need to get your goody two shoes one once in a while and get out in the real world

Warp
07-21-2011, 12:02
all I can say to you is you need to get your goody two shoes one once in a while and get out in the real world

Wow. Name calling people who are set against DUI? A real winner, you are.

BTW: Out there in the "real world" there are over 10,000 alcohol related deaths vehicle deaths every year in this country. Over ten thousand people DEAD because of those who drive while intoxicated, just in the US. Every year. Think about that.

SCmasterblaster
07-21-2011, 12:02
I have been known to drink a quart of rum in a night and do the horizontal mumbo...........:rofl:

What is a horiontal mumbo?

21Carrier
07-21-2011, 12:48
Wow. Name calling people who are set against DUI? A real winner, you are.

BTW: Out there in the "real world" there are over 10,000 alcohol related deaths vehicle deaths every year in this country. Over ten thousand people DEAD because of those who drive while intoxicated, just in the US. Every year. Think about that.

"Think about that." That is apparently asking too much.

What is a horiontal mumbo?

Making whoopie? Doing the dirty? Laying pipe? Fornication?

SCmasterblaster
07-21-2011, 12:52
Oh, I get it, fornication.

Warp
07-21-2011, 12:55
Ahh, yes, that must be it. I was wondering.

21Carrier
07-21-2011, 13:17
I just realized that many of us are arguing the faults of drinking while carrying with a member whose name starts with "bar", contains "barstool", and proclaims to be a "barstool guru". I'm coming to the realization that we will not get our point across to someone that is self-named "barstoolguru". It would be like expecting me to give you a bad review of a G21. Not gonna happen.

wnr700
07-21-2011, 13:37
Hmmm... did I miss something?

Wasn't it a drunk with a gun that nearly got one or more killed in the OP??

Hey... but he was exercising his rights!

Mayhem like Me
07-21-2011, 13:48
And I do agree with you that some people have a higher Torrance to alcoholic. Me I can drink a 12 pack before I start to feel anything. We are what I call functioning alcoholics; alcoholics that can do things when we drink other then stumble in to a stupor. Some people can drink a few beers and drive with reasonable care as well as handle a gun and some can’t. The problem here is that we all get thrown in the same group because there is no way of weeding out the ones that can’t function so everyone has a one track mind when it comes to drinking and doing anything especially non or once in a blue moon drinkers

You're an accident, a bad one waiting to happen....

21Carrier
07-21-2011, 14:11
And I do agree with you that some people have a higher Torrance to alcoholic. Me I can drink a 12 pack before I start to feel anything. We are what I call functioning alcoholics; alcoholics that can do things when we drink other then stumble in to a stupor. Some people can drink a few beers and drive with reasonable care as well as handle a gun and some can’t. The problem here is that we all get thrown in the same group because there is no way of weeding out the ones that can’t function so everyone has a one track mind when it comes to drinking and doing anything especially non or once in a blue moon drinkers

Wow. I somehow missed this post earlier. Just wow. It HORRIFIES me that a "functioning alcoholic" is a frequent visitor to GlockTalk. You can drink a TWELVE PACK before feeling anything? You do realize you are an alcoholic, right? You can attach whatever qualifier you want to the front of the word alcoholic, but it doesn't make it better. You need help. Today is a good day, go seek help.

Your liver is likely destroyed, and your brain is surely atrophying. After years of alcoholism, your brain atrophies to the point that all that's left are your "primitive" parts. Basically, you become VERY aggressive, emotional, sexually driven, and primitive. You basically turn into an animal. You lose the ability to think critically and reason. You just react emotionally. Nothing good will come of that. Someone will piss you off, and you might just shoot them. Not because you WANTED to, but because you have caused serious brain damage, and are no longer a fully functioning human. Get help, you need it. And quit carrying until you're sober.

barstoolguru
07-21-2011, 14:32
You're an accident, a bad one waiting to happen....

well you better stay home then, we sure hate to see your goody two shoes get dirty with some of my bad accident

OD Green Glock 19
07-21-2011, 16:39
well you better stay home then, we sure hate to see your goody two shoes get dirty with some of my bad accident
If you hold a TX concealed handgun permit, then you lied on the application to get it. Alcoholics aren't legally allowed to possess concealed handgun permits. You have no business carrying firearms. I hope no innocent individuals pay the price for your irresponsibility.

wnr700
07-21-2011, 17:03
FWIW... I looked at the FAQ on the Arizona Dept of Public Safety...

Can I carry a firearm into an establishment that serves alcoholic drinks for consumption on the premises if I have a CCW permit?
Yes, unless the establishment has posted signs prohibiting weapons (A.R.S. 4-229 (http://www.azdps.gov/Links/ARS/?l=4/00229.htm)). You may not consume alcohol while in possession of your firearm (A.R.S. 4-244 (http://www.azdps.gov/Links/ARS/?l=4/00244.htm)). There are some additional exceptions see A.R.S. 13-3102 (http://www.azdps.gov/Links/ARS/?l=13/03102.htm).

I would caution you to look in detail at the state law and possibly contact the police to report incident and clarify the law.


Just looked at the SC law.

In SC, nothing is said about carrying under the influence... the way I read it, you can get a DUI and have no adverse charges applied by carrying concealed.

However, if you unlawfully discharge a firearm, SLED WILL be testing you for drug and alchohol. You can refuse the test, but all of this will be evidence in a court proceeding.

The only way you are free to drink and shoot is if it was justifiable.

barstoolguru
07-21-2011, 17:39
I just realized that many of us are arguing the faults of drinking while carrying with a member whose name starts with "bar", contains "barstool", and proclaims to be a "barstool guru". I'm coming to the realization that we will not get our point across to someone that is self-named "barstoolguru". It would be like expecting me to give you a bad review of a G21. Not gonna happen.

good point but what you fail to realize is a lot of people carry and drink at the same time and the world did not stop spinning and the stock market didn't crash and yes you can drink a couple of beers and still be responsible while carrying.

Let’s face it folks booze and firearms have be together for over a hundred years. At one point in time wine was the drink of choice because it was fermented and safer then water so before you all trample me with your goody two shoes this is something that will go on for the next 100 years

Was this man wrong, sure he was but the question here is how much did he have to drink? If it was vodka you would have never smelled it (why do you think they are so popular at lunch) if it was beer he would have had to drink a lot to get hammered. He never mention the man was staggering or slurring his words so I think there was some exudations on how bad it was. If it was that bad they would have called the cops

OctoberRust
07-21-2011, 18:39
Open-carrying is a hostile act. Don't do that.


So is being a brady plant on glocktalk.

Misty02
07-21-2011, 18:55
I wonder what the blood alcohol level is after a 12-pack?

Try this one. The calculations for a 180 lbs male, regular 12 oz beer, in 2 hours is: 0.23

http://www.healthstatus.com/calculate/blood-alcohol-bac-calculator

.

Misty02
07-21-2011, 19:03
I just realized that many of us are arguing the faults of drinking while carrying with a member whose name starts with "bar", contains "barstool", and proclaims to be a "barstool guru". I'm coming to the realization that we will not get our point across to someone that is self-named "barstoolguru". It would be like expecting me to give you a bad review of a G21. Not gonna happen.

:supergrin: You are wise beyond your years!

.

Spiffums
07-21-2011, 19:03
I thought hunting over bait was illegal everywhere............ Lil Johnny we will sit right here and watch your new corvette that Mommy and me bought you and if someone tries to steal it...... We will blast em like Ole Han Solo did in the bar scene in Star Wars!

SCmasterblaster
07-21-2011, 19:03
Try this one. The calculations for a 180 lbs male, regular 12 oz beer, in 2 hours is: 0.23

http://www.healthstatus.com/calculate/blood-alcohol-bac-calculator

.

That's intoxication in anyone's book!

Mayhem like Me
07-21-2011, 19:07
well you better stay home then, we sure hate to see your goody two shoes get dirty with some of my bad accident

No I'll be the guy to put your stupid *** in Jail where it can't kill some family..

Mayhem like Me
07-21-2011, 19:09
good point but what you fail to realize is a lot of people carry and drink at the same time and the world did not stop spinning and the stock market didn't crash and yes you can drink a couple of beers and still be responsible while carrying.

Let’s face it folks booze and firearms have be together for over a hundred years. At one point in time wine was the drink of choice because it was fermented and safer then water so before you all trample me with your goody two shoes this is something that will go on for the next 100 years

Was this man wrong, sure he was but the question here is how much did he have to drink? If it was vodka you would have never smelled it (why do you think they are so popular at lunch) if it was beer he would have had to drink a lot to get hammered. He never mention the man was staggering or slurring his words so I think there was some exudations on how bad it was. If it was that bad they would have called the cops


The fail is strong in this one....http://media.ebaumsworld.com/mediaFiles/picture/704901/80686348.jpg

Misty02
07-21-2011, 19:26
The offer still stands.....:whistling:

Let me help, please. I’ll go ahead and take this now….


217871

barstoolguru
07-21-2011, 19:44
The offer still stands.....:whistling:


not yet,I think they are seeing my point of view

Misty02
07-21-2011, 19:48
not yet,I think they are seeing my point of view

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl: Ok, if you say so!

.

barstoolguru
07-21-2011, 20:00
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl: Ok, if you say so!

.

It’s the mohomid ali of GT………… I am gonna hang on the ropes and get beat up and act like I am loosing then come out swinging with facts and pics that will blow every one away

Cavalry Doc
07-21-2011, 20:03
I've read some high drama westerns with a few less needless details.

J_P
07-21-2011, 20:07
Open-carrying is a hostile act. Don't do that.

I would agree with it being a hostile act, but me personally if they allowed open carry i still would not just because i like knowing the fact that no one knows im armed and i like to keep it that way. Plus having the element of surprise is cool.

Misty02
07-21-2011, 20:15
It’s the mohomid ali of GT………… I am gonna hang on the ropes and get beat up and act like I am loosing then come out swinging with facts and pics that will blow every one away

:animlol:So how many beers does it take to reach that kind of logic considering what you’ve posted so far?

.

barstoolguru
07-21-2011, 20:32
:animlol:So how many beers does it take to reach that kind of logic considering what you’ve posted so far?

.

still working on it , will let you know right before I pass out or
Accidentally shoot myself, what ever comes first