Are these people crazy?? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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DrBob
07-19-2011, 15:47
The Institute of Medicine has made recommendations about what should be included for women under the affordable care act.

Among the recommendations is the idea that contraceptive services should be included.

Director of HHS says:... the IOM report is "historic" and said its recommendations were "based on science and existing literature."

Contraceptives can help families plan pregnancies, the report states. A national survey found that an estimated 49% of all pregnancies in the United States were unintended in 2001.

And women who have unintended pregnancies are more likely to have little or no prenatal care, and engage in risky behaviors such as smoking, drinking or experience domestic violence.

Birth control can also help women space time between births. Short periods between pregnancies have been associated with increased risk of higher mortality for children under age 5, low birth weight, preterm births, stillbirths, miscarriages, and maternal death.

The direct medical cost of unintended pregnancy in the United States was estimated to be nearly $5 billion in 2002. The cost savings due to contraceptive use in that same year was estimated to be $19.3 billion, according to a study cited in the IOM's report."

Other recommendations included:

"Although the recommendation on contraceptives is most likely to attract controversy, the IOM committee also suggested that the following programs be fully covered as preventive services:

-- Screening for gestational diabetes for pregnant women between 24 and 28 weeks
-- DNA testing for high-risk HPV for women starting at 30 years of age; recurring every three years
-- Annual counseling on sexually transmitted infections for all sexually active women
-- HIV testing and counseling on an annual basis for sexually active women
-- Breastfeeding support and counseling, including costs of renting breastfeeding equipment
-- Screening and counseling for interpersonal and domestic violence
-- One preventive care visit a year for adult women"

Full story here: http://www.cnn.com/2011/HEALTH/07/19/birth.control.iom/index.html?iref=allsearch


Already the forces of opposition are readying their amunition. They do not want contraceptives to be made available. They want every available sperm and egg to produce more people. EVen though they then want to send them back to Mexico, or put them in jail, or cut services to the children for food and medical care. It seems they cease to care for people once they are born... Here's a tip for people opposed to birth control: If you don't like it, don't use it but keep your nose out of everyone elses business.

Mrs. Tink
07-22-2011, 09:30
My opinions about the Affordable Care Act aside...

I have no problem with women using contraception. But what does "made available" mean? They are available.

It seems that what it means is, "Force insurance companies to give all birth control to women for free."

I am fine with medical contraception and sterilization being covered under insurance just like other medication or surgical services. But why should there be some kind of collective cost forced upon insurers and taxpayers (which is what "free" means)? Everyone else will end up paying for contraception. The article suggests that a lack of birth control has a causal relationship with "risky behaviors." Does ANYONE really believe that with free birth control, women will suddenly decide not to engage in "risky behaviors?" Give me a break.

Women should take responsibility to provide their own contraception and family planning within the bounds of their insurance or other organization. There are plenty of organizations that offer reduced- or no-cost women's health providers. I myself took advantage of one during that gap period during graduate school after falling off my parents' insurance in college to when I started my own job.

DrBob
07-22-2011, 12:00
Women should take responsibility to provide their own contraception and family planning within the bounds of their insurance or other organization. There are plenty of organizations that offer reduced- or no-cost women's health providers. I myself took advantage of one during that gap period during graduate school after falling off my parents' insurance in college to when I started my own job.

Guess who is paying for most of those unintended pregnacies now...

While low cost birth control pills are available (Thanks to Wal-Mart)They are not the best solution for many people. IUDs, implants, etc. may be better choices but they all carry risks. The IOM is suggesting that almost all forms of contraception be covered without a copay in the future plans (many do so now). Additionally, the screening programs listed should similarly be covered.

It is unlikely that you will ever be able to convince all young women to avoid alleged unintended pregnacies but it makes sense to prevent the ones you can. Public health measures are NEVER applied 100% -whether it's vaccinations, screening, sanitation, malaria prevention, etc., etc. One hopes to reduce the problem as much as possible when it cannot be eliminated.

PATRICE
07-23-2011, 06:24
.....

ExxoticOne
07-25-2011, 04:01
A certain demographic expects free health care...everything from treating their STD's and drug addictions to gestational diabetes class to a c-section. They can't pay their $15 co-pay but they have iPhones and Coach bags. The only thing "unplanned" was contraception. The more children they have, the bigger their public assistance is. We created a culture of entitlement. No joke, if you ask them who is responsible for their situation they will shamelessly tell you "the government".

SouthernGal
07-25-2011, 14:11
My dad is back in the hospital again as of Saturday.

Not long after he was admitted for observation, a large (dad estimated 300+ pounds) man came in for what he said were "chest pains" (gee...you think his weight might cause him such issues?). Hours later, that man was in the room next to dad's snoring his head off. The nurse said she believed his chest pains (nothing showed on the monitor) were actually an excuse to spend the night on clean sheets in an air conditioned room (and of course, get free meals).

Memphis is nearing 100+ in heat indexes. You should see our ER fill up during such times.

FREE birth control is already available. Go to any Planned Parenthood or Health Department and there it is! My theory is even if it IS free, there will always be people who simply refuse because more babies at their home means more $.

PATRICE
07-25-2011, 15:48
.....

ExxoticOne
07-26-2011, 04:35
Examine the mindset, or lackthereof, of the majority of intended recipients...family planning or any sort of responsible, proactive behavior is lost on them. These types want their government to enable their behaviors. We give away just about everything free or low cost to unemployed, uneducated women who have litters of children by multiple men. What's the incentive (for them) to "do the right thing"?

Ellie89
07-26-2011, 07:17
Women should take responsibility to provide their own contraception and family planning within the bounds of their insurance or other organization. There are plenty of organizations that offer reduced- or no-cost women's health providers. I myself took advantage of one during that gap period during graduate school after falling off my parents' insurance in college to when I started my own job.
I agree completely. Personal responsibility is lost on many these days, especially the younger generation (mine). It really is just a matter of looking around--lots of places offer free or extremely cheap services.

SouthernGal
07-26-2011, 07:56
Hhmmm....It would appear that the women in this forum have not responded in the manner which the thread's initiator may have anticipated....--Patrice :whistling:

P.S. SG, I'm sorry that your father's health required his re-hospitalization. You have my thoughts & prayers that his health improves, and that he gets a roommate with whom he is comfortable.

We're getting there...it appears he's going to be getting a pacemaker in the very near future. The drugs are not doing what the doctors wanted them to and he's "blocking down" while on them. He was discharged yesterday and is back at home but they're working on getting his surgery scheduled.

Lone_Wolfe
07-26-2011, 23:49
We're getting there...it appears he's going to be getting a pacemaker in the very near future. The drugs are not doing what the doctors wanted them to and he's "blocking down" while on them. He was discharged yesterday and is back at home but they're working on getting his surgery scheduled.

He'll stay in my prayers.

SouthernGal
07-27-2011, 08:03
He'll stay in my prayers.

I told him your story while he was here and he cringed.

Mrs. Tink
07-27-2011, 14:31
Hey Patrice, I sent you a PM but it says you've chosen not to receive them. Any other way you prefer to be contacted? :wavey:

MKEgal
08-02-2011, 15:59
...why should there be some kind of collective cost forced upon insurers and taxpayers (which is what "free" means)? Everyone else will end up paying for contraception.
Who do you think ends up paying for the costs associated w/ pregnancy, birth, & raising a child?
With insurance, it's spread among the pool of insureds, just as the cost of contraception or any other drug would be.
With public programs (can't really be called "health insurance") the cost is borne by all taxpayers.

The article suggests that a lack of birth control has a causal relationship with "risky behaviors." Does ANYONE really believe that with free birth control, women will suddenly decide not to engage in "risky behaviors?"
Mmmm... getting pregnant unintentionally may be one more example of a bad choice, and by preventing it from making the girl/woman's life any harder contraception also prevents the baby/child from having a hard life (and often perpetuating the cycle of poverty & drug abuse).

No, contraception probably won't stop someone from using drugs, or whatever the risky behaviour of choice is. But it prevents one more problem that can get more expensive & go on to make little problems of its own.

SamRudolph
08-02-2011, 16:08
I have a solution. Since health problems are the reason people get health insurance, why don't we just have the government force health insurers to cover every health problem for every person?

Presto! Instant solution!

wjv
08-03-2011, 17:02
I would rather pay for publicly supplied contraceptives than thousands of additional abortions and pregnancies .

But I also think that many here are correct in that we could hand out contraceptives on every street corner, and there would still be people would would refuse/forget to make use of it.

Mrs.Cicero
08-04-2011, 15:15
I'm thinking it's none of the gov't's business, insisting on this crap. They can't administer their way out of paper bag. I like the libertarian solution. If you think other people should have free contraceptives, then start a non-profit that provides that, and take donations. I'll even donate some hard-earned cash to the "free sterilizations." I just think it's bull to legally require insurance companies to cover this, because it's ultimately going to come out of my pocket INVOLUNTARILY that way. That's called theft in my dictionary.

In the interest of of full disclosure, all my pregnancies were intentional. I managed to find affordable contraception for 10+ years without any difficulty at all under the current system, prior to desiring to become pregnant. Stop imagining problems, and mistaking the cause(s) of real problems for something they aren't. Unintentional pregnancies will not be prevented by handing out free contraception every three feet down the street, because unintentional pregnancies are not caused by the lack of free contraception.

Mrs.Cicero

windancr
08-07-2011, 17:50
[QUOTE=SouthernGal;17680792]My dad is back in the hospital again as of Saturday.

----------------------------------------------
Your dad, you, your family and all concerned with his health care are in our prayers

SouthernGal
08-09-2011, 10:27
Guess I should have updated...My dad got a pacemaker on the 3rd and is doing better. His heart rate seems to have stabilized at somewhere between 60-70 BPM. He's got a followup on the 10th but it is obvious something has changed as he's no longer "white faced"...the color has returned to his face.

Lone_Wolfe
08-10-2011, 08:21
Great, that sounds like what I been hoping to hear! Thanks for the update.

And maybe you don't want to make the poor guy cringe for a while? :supergrin: :wavey:

Mrs. Tink
08-10-2011, 20:32
Who do you think ends up paying for the costs associated w/ pregnancy, birth, & raising a child?
With insurance, it's spread among the pool of insureds, just as the cost of contraception or any other drug would be.
With public programs (can't really be called "health insurance") the cost is borne by all taxpayers.


Sure, that's why we have insurance. But to eliminate copays on an entire branch of medicine (i.e. OBGYN services) would cause collective costs to skyrocket. Raising a child, incidentally, is NOT covered by insurance unless you consider pediatrician visits to be "raising a child."


Mmmm... getting pregnant unintentionally may be one more example of a bad choice, and by preventing it from making the girl/woman's life any harder contraception also prevents the baby/child from having a hard life (and often perpetuating the cycle of poverty & drug abuse).

No, contraception probably won't stop someone from using drugs, or whatever the risky behaviour of choice is. But it prevents one more problem that can get more expensive & go on to make little problems of its own.

Contraception IS AVAILABLE. It is COVERED BY INSURANCE. Your reply suggests that without these measures, it would be as if it were not available.

Everyone has choices, and it is not appropriate for people to say that since they were required to pay ordinary health insurance copays, deductibles or member responsibility payments, they were somehow not responsible for their choice not to do so--and worse, that somehow I and others ARE responsible.

DrBob
08-11-2011, 13:03
Contraception IS AVAILABLE. It is COVERED BY INSURANCE. Your reply suggests that without these measures, it would be as if it were not available.



Are you aware that there are 40 million people without health insurance in the US; that there are many people who cannot afford to visit a gynecologist; and that birth control pills are not suitable for everyone? Further, there are many women who cannot afford mammograms and the other screening tests listed either becasue of no insurance or high copays? Moreover, birth control is NOT universally covered by all insurance programs. The point of the OP was that the IOM suggested that it be made mandatory for insurance programs to cover it (and the other preventive/screening items).

Mrs. Tink
08-14-2011, 22:28
Are you aware that there are 40 million people without health insurance in the US; that there are many people who cannot afford to visit a gynecologist; and that birth control pills are not suitable for everyone? Further, there are many women who cannot afford mammograms and the other screening tests listed either becasue of no insurance or high copays? Moreover, birth control is NOT universally covered by all insurance programs. The point of the OP was that the IOM suggested that it be made mandatory for insurance programs to cover it (and the other preventive/screening items).

Birth control pills are not suitable for everyone; I am one of them. I had blood clots at age 19 and have been on an alternative form ever since. I was once at a low point where I had $60 to my name and was technically homeless, living off the charity of friends. I am quite aware of all of those things. I never went on the government dole and I never expected free anything.

You are not addressing my point that there are numerous charitable organizations and even state-run facilities that will provide this for free, or on a sliding scale based on income, for the indigent. I have utilized them and donated to them. I already participate in forced redistribution, both through my insurance company (my free choice for now), and my tax dollars (not my free choice). Apparently this is not good enough for some people, and they want to force my insurance company to pay these costs in full, driving up costs for everyone else and creating a huge additional burden on insurers and the insured alike.

Mrs.Cicero
08-15-2011, 16:22
Why on earth does anyone think that birth control is a "right"? Are they crazy? If you can't afford kids, don't have sex. If you want to have sex, then have it, but pay for your own darn birth control. You do not have a right to have sex with birth control paid for by money stolen from me. Do you know what the next step down your slippery slope is? The right to sex-paid-for-by-taxpayers of people who are too diseased, ugly, or socially inept to have sex without paying for it. That's what's next. Our tax dollars redistributed to the johns to pay the hookers. I can see it coming. No pun intended.

Mrs.Cicero