Personal Progressive Press Experiences

[Colorado4Wheel]

Why/How/In what way(s)?

I already told you before.

Shellplate isn't indexing with a bullet on top. Bullet less likely to fall off at faster speeds
Press is easier to operate.
More leverage on the primer. Seating is easier
Because the indexing is done before you seat the bullet you can be slightly less precise on putting the bullet on the case.

[glock20c10mm]

In all fairness here... I've forwarded that video to several LNL owners I know to assist them in getting it to run right.
That would matter if I had a care in the world to ever load 9mm.

Even Bob acknowledged the fact that Steve's issues and others issues with the LNL were legit and took a lot of time, file and polish to his LNL to get the case feeder to work right.
Again, only related to 9mm which I don't have a care in the world to own or load for.

Kudos to him. If someone was out there in any of the forums that could say their LNL worked like Bobs out of the box, I haven't heard of any.
You mean his friends LNL doesn't count? Why?

As for a LNL case feeder system being able to keep up with XL650 take a look at how fast this XL650 is loading and cycling .223 cases with a trimmer set-up. The same trimmer could be mounted on a LNL....
<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/MLyK1UwuK3M" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Jack says 9mm cases back up in the funnel area with both the case feeders on his twin 1050s. Oh, I forgot, it's a blue press so it doesn't matter. My bad. Oh yeah, that's right, I have no intention of loading 9mm.

5 minutes is easy on a case fed XL650. I average 6 minutes a hundred, load normally 400 at a time in 30 minutes including primer pecking 2 or 3 times a week.
Okay.

If your asking what HIGHLY MODIFIED means in regards to Bob's LNL you haven't thoroughly read his posts.
Well, I have now and am more sold on the LNL than ever. Read both threads actually.

So HIGHLY MODIFIED to Steve and Boxerglocker =

1) Handle bent forward.

2) Fixed case feeder stuff and shell plate to handle 9mm which I will never load.

3) Polished stuff for no reason other than looks.

4) Added a Dillon primer alarm.

5) Wait, there is no #5! And none of the above even pertain to necessities toward getting the press to work at any reasonable speed for the cartridges I intend to load! OBVIOUSLY I missed something. Care to point it out?!?

It's not meant to impress you just inform. The difference is in the case feeding systems The 650 is railed and prevents the tipping of shells prior to entering the shell-plate through a locator station. If works right out of the box and didn't have to modified with a file to get it to work.
And Bob2223 only did it to get 9mm to work, while it worked fine for 9 other cartridges. Hey, did I mention I have no intention of loading 9mm?

I load that fast when I need to. 5 mins is not that fast on my 650. I could go faster for sure. It's nice being able to reliably crank out 300 rds for practice in very short order. Nice and also useful.
Sounds like it's only an issue worth mentioning on the LNL when loading 9mm. Do you disagree? I've seen this from multiple sources already. Did I miss another thread somewhere?

Nearly every part of the press. Your just not even reading the post of others. I posted that thread a while back to support that "even the people that like the LnL admit they have to modify it" or some such thing. OBVIOUSLY, you didn't even look at the link. To busy looking for the stuff that supports your choice and not looking at stuff that doesn't support your choice.
I've read every word now, as you can see in my answers to Boxerglocker above. Maybe you'ld like to point out what I clearly missed based on your assessment?

I rarely chalk anyone up as an "idiot". Different people have different experiences.
Okay and yes. Very clearly on the yes!

Look, the people who have years of successful experience with Hornady presses either (1) got themselves a press that happened to work properly out of the box,
What % do you believe don't work properly out of the box?

(2) managed to successfully modify their press so that it works properly,
Which only seems to be a need when loading 9mm and has no bearing on me.

(3) use the press in such a way as to avoid whatever problems the press happens to have,
Unless you can point out something I'm missing, it doesn't look like I have much to worry about as long as I get one that will seat a primer. You think different?

or (4) ran into a problem with the press and changed their methods to avoid it.
Example outside of priming off the press for those that have LNL presses that won't seat primers below flush?

The question is: how likely is any given person going to be in each of those categories?
All except for the sole possible chance I don't get one that seats primers below flush, it would appear I have at least half the battle won and I have no intention of loading 9mm. Thoughts?

There is no press on the planet that is perfect. None. As with anything, when you buy a press, there is some chance that it won't work properly. Neither the Hornady nor the Dillon is an exception to that. So that leaves the much more pertinent question: how likely are you to run into an issue and, if you do, is it going to be correctable?
Doesn't appear I'll run into any issues, save a press that won't seat a primer below flush. You don't see it that way?

The general consensus on the Hornady LnL seems to be that if you run into the issue with the priming system that a number of others seem to have, then it is not correctable, because it arises from a design flaw in the press.
:agree:

Is someone dumb for buying such a press anyway? Maybe. It depends entirely on his reasons for doing so.
You mean such a press that may very well seat primers fine, and where 9mm issues won't be an issue as 9mm won't be loaded on said press?

In your case, you are taking the not inconsiderable risk that your press will give you priming and casefeeder issues in order to save $100 over a very large period of time.
The ~$100 savings is not the sole reason I want the LNL press, as covered in posts above. The casefeeder issues are mainly limited to 9mm which I won't be loading. The primer seating issues may or may not exist. That said, just how are you equating my case to "not inconsiderable risk"?

And that is what has some here perplexed.
Do you see that changing with the above respelled out for you?

What could possibly be your reason for doing that?
Unless you can point out something I've missed, I think I've covered this very well above.

Why is it that you appeared to be married to the LnL?
Is it now becoming clearer? I believe the question now is "why not the LNL in MY case?" That is unless you can point out something I've missed.

What makes it so much more attractive to you than, say, the Dillon 650? That is the question of the day, and is the question to which I don't believe we've seen an answer.
You might want to go back and look closer.

OK, makes sense. That's what I thought, but I wanted to be sure.
:thumbsup:

Maybe what you really want is a Dillon 1050. :supergrin:
Now that's a whole lot more money!!!:shocked::supergrin:

[Fire_Medic]

I'm just curious if the arguments will continue for another 8 months until you buy the LNL.......:whistling:

[glock20c10mm]

I already told you before.

Shellplate isn't indexing with a bullet on top. Bullet less likely to fall off at faster speeds
Press is easier to operate.
More leverage on the primer. Seating is easier
Because the indexing is done before you seat the bullet you can be slightly less precise on putting the bullet on the case.
I'll be using a bullet feeder. And, I didn't see Bob2223 have any issues. Did you, on the HIGHLY MODIFIED press he uses, where the HIGHLY MODIFIED additions did nothing to speed up the loading process unless loading 9mm. Do you feel I'm missing something?

Did you ever seat primers on a LNL that seats primers properly to begin with?

[glock20c10mm]

I'm just curious if the arguments will continue for another 8 months until you buy the LNL.......:whistling:
:shocked:Maybe. Hard to tell with these things.:supergrin:

[Boxerglocker]

1) Case insertion
2) resized and deprimed.
3) swager
4) primer
5) for powder drop (the ones before this don't move, You normally don't primer above the powder measure.)
6) for powder check
7) for seating
8) for crimp.

:upeyes: Every time I think of that swaging feature that the 1050 has it makes me yearn to get one for a dedicated .223


glock20c10mm get your LNL.... Like I said before, hope it works out for you and it works out of the box. Personally, I wouldn't buy a press that was known to have issues loading any calibers it was advertised to do even if I had no intention of loading it at all. It's a free country you spend you hard earned dollars as you like....

[glock20c10mm]

glock20c10mm get your LNL.... Like I said before, hope it works out for you and it works out of the box. Personally, I wouldn't buy a press that was known to have issues loading any calibers it was advertised to do even if I had no intention of loading it at all. It's a free country you spend you hard earned dollars as you like....
Are you saying you can't think of any further reasoning against me getting a LNL AP aside from the single possible issue that I could end up with one that doesn't seat primers below flush?

And all that other stuff you posted was a misunderstanding because you forgot that Bob2223 had no issues with 2 different LNL presses seating primers flush, nor did he have case feeder issues (9 cartridges besides 9mm) except with 9mm that I won't be loading?

And you're also admitting Bob2223's improvements to his LNL AP were solely for the sake of loading 9mm, in terms of speed?

[GioaJack]

Uh-oh, I saw my name mentioned... at least it wasn't in vain like Little Stevie and Wisky usually do.

I have stayed out of this marathon fray since nothing that has been discussed really effects the way I use my LNL's since I have never loaded 9's on either of them. I use one strictly for .38 and the case feeder works fine, probably because of the longer case. I don't believe I've ever had a case fall off the shuttle but it may have happened.

The other machine I use mostly for RN .45's. I have it set up for RN so I can run them through the bullet feeder, (I load my SWC's on a 1050). I will have the occasional case fall off the shuttle, maybe 1 in every 150 or 200. I understand that many people find that unacceptable but but I really don't find it to be any big deal, I just keep pulling the handle without missing a beat. (Small minds are easy to please.)

On that machine I also load .41 mags but don't use the case feeder since I only load a hundred or so at a time. On the other machine I also load .380's but again I don't use the case feeder for those either but I can imagine that they may encounter the same problems that others have had with the 9's... I don't know for sure.

I guess I just got lucky, I don't really have any irritating problems seating either small or large problems. I did initially with the first machine but once I figured out how to adjust everything correctly the problems pretty much went away. I still get a stray high primer on the .45 machine but it's always because I didn't completely remove the crimp from the military brass I use. (Actually I've solved that problem by loading brass that I've already loaded on the 1050. Pretty smart for an old man, huh?)

I've noticed that a lot has been mentioned comparing the LNL and 650 case feeders. I don't think there's any question that the 650 was designed for a feeder so I would expect it to have a smoother operation but if it's the same as the 1050 feeders, (I don't have a 650), other than the design to feed into the shell plate it's not really any better.

I've had many, many more jams at the funnel with the 1050 feeders than I've had with the LNL's. In fairness one of them is for 9mm and it seems everyone has some type of problem with that case no matter what feeder they're using. The strange thing is the other machine is .45 and it jams much more than the LNL .45. Although they jam it's simply not that big of a deal, be it Dillon or LNL... it only takes a few seconds to clear it.

I've yet to have a mechanical problem with the LNL feeders but the micro-switches have gone out on both the 1050's. Can't really blame Dillon since I'm sure the parts are from third-party vendors. Again, it's not that big of a deal. One phone call and a few days wait.

Much has been said about the noise level of the LNL feeder. I really don't know where this complaint comes from. Is it louder than the LNL? Yes, without a doubt but it's not that much louder. I don't have to turn the flat panel up any louder when I'm using the LNL's and the increased noise is off-set by the fact that the LNL feeder is twice as fast, if not faster than the 1050... maybe the 650 feeder is faster.

I find the two feeders to be pretty much a toss-up with the edge going to the Dillon for overall construction quality. The LNL does have one major advantage however, you can by-pass the feeder dropping cases when you're out of primers... on the 1050 you can't, at least I don't know how to do it.

BTW, Boxer, the swaging feature on the 1050 isn't worth the price over the 650... you can buy a hell of a lot of un-crimped commercial brass for the price difference.

Okay, I'm done, you guys can go at it again.


Jack

[Tpro]

You do realize that the above comment makes no sense at all...


If 90% of the post was not missing it WOULD make sense. Where it went I have no idea. I'm not going to type it out again but I will try and clear it up.

The question was aksed about SPEED. Too many guys on here blow their own horn on how fast they can load, and blame the press for lack of speed. SPEED comes from REPETITION. 90% of your speed will be from doing the task over and over and over. 10% will be related to the machine.

As for how many stations affect output, I started out by comparing a progressive to a turret press, as in loading on your progressive 1 station at a time. Some call it loading single stage but it (correctly) more like loading on a turret. So if you have a 3 station turret (or 4) you will have 2 (or 1 depending on what you are comparing it to) pulls of the handle to produce a completed round. Then I showed the math of progressive reloading.

So if it was all there it would make sense. It's not. So I hope this clears it up. No way in hell would I say that the number of stations in a progressive (being used PROGRESSIVELY) WOULD AFFECT OUTPUT after you have completed one cyle of the press. Then it would be 1 pull 1 bullet. If you run it like a turret the math will be different.

[kcbrown]

What % do you believe don't work properly out of the box?


That is a very good question. I honestly don't have the answer to it. All we have to go by is anecdotal evidence (but that's true of the Lee presses as well).

Whatever the percentage is, it's enough to apparently be larger than the same percentage when applied to Dillon presses.



Which only seems to be a need when loading 9mm and has no bearing on me.


That doesn't follow.

For instance, C4W's casefeeder issues occurred when using Glock-fired brass. The base of .40S&W cases are very close to being the same size as 9mm -- enough so that on many presses, they share the same shellplate. Same for 10mm.

If you're going to be reloading 10mm and firing them in a Glock, there is good reason to be concerned about possible casefeeder issues.



Unless you can point out something I'm missing, it doesn't look like I have much to worry about as long as I get one that will seat a primer. You think different?


That and the casefeeder seem to be the two primary issues with the press. And the casefeeder issue can apparently be dealt with.

I agree, if you get a press that will properly seat primers for you, you should be fine.

But that is the very thing we're talking about -- it's a risk, not a certainty. And the question is: why take the risk when, for $100 more, you'll avoid it entirely?



The ~$100 savings is not the sole reason I want the LNL press, as covered in posts above. The casefeeder issues are mainly limited to 9mm which I won't be loading. The primer seating issues may or may not exist. That said, just how are you equating my case to "not inconsiderable risk"?


I say it's "not inconsiderable" because the number of people who have had priming issues with the press is large enough to draw attention. That is not true of the Dillon 650.



Is it now becoming clearer? I believe the question now is "why not the LNL in MY case?" That is unless you can point out something I've missed.


I don't remember seeing why, specifically, you rejected the Dillon 650, which is the press I'm talking about when I say you'll be saving $100 with the LnL.

A search through your previous messages doesn't yield much fruit. The only thing I see you talking about is that, for some reason, you seem to prefer the design of the LnL over that of the 650, but you don't give any specifics on that. You also mention the caliber conversion costs, but don't give specifics on that either (the conversion costs on a 650 depend greatly upon what you're converting to and what you already have).


So: please elaborate on exactly why you reject the Dillon 650 in favor of the LnL. All I'm really getting out of what you said so far is that "it's cheaper", which is true, but the cost difference is small to miniscule compared to the amount you'll be putting into the press and its accessories, particularly when amortized over the amount of time you'll own it.

[Boxerglocker]

Are you saying you can't think of any further reasoning against me getting a LNL AP aside from the single possible issue that I could end up with one that doesn't seat primers below flush?

And all that other stuff you posted was a misunderstanding because you forgot that Bob2223 had no issues with 2 different LNL presses seating primers flush, nor did he have case feeder issues (9 cartridges besides 9mm) except with 9mm that I won't be loading?

And you're also admitting Bob2223's improvements to his LNL AP were solely for the sake of loading 9mm, in terms of speed?

No, I didn't forget anything Bob did or has done with his machines. I'm saying if you want a LNL get one.... your apparently aware of it's possible limitations and willing to accept them. It's a choice I personally would not make.
I have loaded on a LNL both casefeed and not quite a few times now. I know from experience on various different machines, that there are several issues that concern and drive me away at this moment from getting one. Though the low cost of caliber conversions is appealing. I don't believe that a a LNL can keep up with a 650 in production and I don't believe both machines are equals in terms of quality and the ammo they produce (torque flex of the head, which I have seen when loading larger calibers). I don't care for the ergonomics of the machine the way it indexes. I can feel that it doesn't have the primer leverage of any other machine that I have loaded on including the SDB and LCT and does not seat as deep as any other machine I have loaded on. The case feeder is a lot louder which bugs the crap out of me. I don't like the fact that horandy hasn't caught on and given it it own options for a strongmount, roller handle or bullet tray though not needed it would be nice to have the choice, rather than make a frankenloader machine set-up as some have.

Lastly, when I was doing my research on which machine to buy, knowing my loading requirements as someone that needs to load bulk ammo for competition/practice in minimum time at the bench. My research showed that quite a number of people in the forums I visited that had the same requirements as myself in terms of number of rounds and time, that went with the LNL, shortly dumped them in favor of the 650.
These however are my observations that pushed me to my decision... Do I regret it? Not one bit... I have a machine that worked right out of the box, can produce a high number of reliable loads in short time is knowing versatile to load reliably any and all calibers it is advertised to.

[Boxerglocker]

BTW, Boxer, the swaging feature on the 1050 isn't worth the price over the 650... you can buy a hell of a lot of un-crimped commercial brass for the price difference.

Jack

The appeal to me is not having to sort the crimped from un-crimped range pick-ups brass that I use for my plinker stuff. Just clean it run it through the 650 to size and trim, clean the lube off in the tumbler and load. Besides, I haven't paid for any brass in the last 2 years and don't intend to unless my free source drys up.

[glock20c10mm]

Uh-oh, I saw my name mentioned... at least it wasn't in vain like Little Stevie and Wisky usually do.
Welcome to the powwow!:cheers:
On the other machine I also load .380's but again I don't use the case feeder for those either but I can imagine that they may encounter the same problems that others have had with the 9's... I don't know for sure.
After reading Bob2223's threads I found it interesting he specifically mentioned not having issues with .380s, unlike 9mm. My best guess is that since he couldn't have fired the .380s from a Glock platform, the spent primers didn't end up with the pushed out primer cup material that allows primed spent cases to wobble on flat surphases allowing them to be tippy as the v-block pushed cases to the shell plate on LNL APs.:dunno:

Hope that somehow made some sense.
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s271/glock20c10mm/Facepalms%20and%20Such/political-pictures-joe-biden-meant-say.jpg
Much has been said about the noise level of the LNL feeder. I really don't know where this complaint comes from. Is it louder than the LNL? Yes, without a doubt but it's not that much louder. I don't have to turn the flat panel up any louder when I'm using the LNL's and the increased noise is off-set by the fact that the LNL feeder is twice as fast, if not faster than the 1050... maybe the 650 feeder is faster.
Hmmm. From the rest of the comments suggesting a LNL case feeder is much louder than the 650 counterpart, I was beginning to thing the noise level was approaching a combination of a blender on high speed while chopping ice & a circular saw being forced to cut cement with a 20 tooth combination blade. Didn't even have to turn up the flatscreen...doesn't sound all that bad.:phew:
Okay, I'm done, you guys can go at it again.


Jack
Thanks for posting!

If you care to comment, I'm curious to how you ended up with 2 LNL APs as opposed to maybe 1 and 1 XL 650, or no LNL APs. Too good a deal to pass up? Something you liked about the LNL APs that was different or nonexistant on a XL 650? Not looking to get too personal, but with your reloading experience and a couple 1050s, was just wondering.

[glock20c10mm]

That is a very good question. I honestly don't have the answer to it. All we have to go by is anecdotal evidence (but that's true of the Lee presses as well).

Whatever the percentage is, it's enough to apparently be larger than the same percentage when applied to Dillon presses.
"Apparently" isn't cutting it for me, at least yet. I have yet to see more than a handful of instances. Then there are just as many if not more that have no issue and that's simply what can be seen on various forums.

As for "Whatever the percentage is, it's enough to apparently be larger than the same percentage when applied to Dillon presses." I unquestionably agree.
That doesn't follow.

For instance, C4W's casefeeder issues occurred when using Glock-fired brass. The base of .40S&W cases are very close to being the same size as 9mm -- enough so that on many presses, they share the same shellplate. Same for 10mm.

If you're going to be reloading 10mm and firing them in a Glock, there is good reason to be concerned about possible casefeeder issues.
I was more/less going by Bob2223 claiming no case feeding issues with 40 S&W cases. But if he or his friend with the same press set up wasn't shooting them from a Glock pistol, then you may be correct. But then again, the ONLY complaints I've come across are solely limited to 9mm. And I have to think someone would have brought it up concerning 40 shot from a Glock, being that both the 40 and the Glock are both VERY common in themselves and in combination. So, not sure, but it's not being brought to light with anything but 9mm so far as I've come across, and therefore it's hard to believe it's that big an issue.
That and the casefeeder seem to be the two primary issues with the press. And the casefeeder issue can apparently be dealt with.
And since the casefeeder issue seems to revolve specifically around 9mm, I'm pretty much done giving that a second thought. As for the priming issue, I'm obviously willing to take the chance, and more and more am thinking it's less of an issue than some around here would have us believe when they really have not clue how extensive or not the issue really is. And then again of course there's all the LNL owners around here that don't have the priming issue either.
I agree, if you get a press that will properly seat primers for you, you should be fine.
I'm expecting the chances are pretty good I will be just fine. No guarantee right off the bat, but then again guarantees like that are pretty nonexistent.
But that is the very thing we're talking about -- it's a risk, not a certainty. And the question is: why take the risk when, for $100 more, you'll avoid it entirely?
Is it really that big of a deal? I don't think so. Driving a vehicle is probably more of risk. But who's to say, as clearly no one around here has a clue as to what that risk level actually is, and there's no good reason to expect it's very high at all without lots of unestablished speculation and assumption.
I say it's "not inconsiderable" because the number of people who have had priming issues with the press is large enough to draw attention. That is not true of the Dillon 650.
I get the argument, but that's opinion and not fact, so far as anyone around here really knows.
I don't remember seeing why, specifically, you rejected the Dillon 650, which is the press I'm talking about when I say you'll be saving $100 with the LnL.

A search through your previous messages doesn't yield much fruit. The only thing I see you talking about is that, for some reason, you seem to prefer the design of the LnL over that of the 650, but you don't give any specifics on that. You also mention the caliber conversion costs, but don't give specifics on that either (the conversion costs on a 650 depend greatly upon what you're converting to and what you already have).


So: please elaborate on exactly why you reject the Dillon 650 in favor of the LnL. All I'm really getting out of what you said so far is that "it's cheaper", which is true, but the cost difference is small to miniscule compared to the amount you'll be putting into the press and its accessories, particularly when amortized over the amount of time you'll own it.
Does it really matter? If I told you what's already been posted, would you all of a sudden change your tune and say you know what, yeah, you're right, great reasoning, definitely go with the LNL?

Clearly your biggest beef all along has been you say the LNL AP is riddled with issues and that it's practically insane for me to continue considering going with one because of it. Turns out that's been practically proven to be a joke. But yet you're still mentioning it above. So now I'm supposed to make this list for you telling you why I want a LNL over a XL 650, and then what, you're all of a sudden gonna change your tune? Do you wanna take a stab at why I seriously doubt that? Start with your track record in this thread so far.

Here's some of my reasoning -

1) Quick change die bushings ALREADY BUILT INTO the LNL.

2) Better overall power measure system on LNL. And simple to swap metering inserts. And a variety of inserts to choose from even for the same application.

3) Lower conversion cost no matter how you slice it.

4) Cleaner overall design.

5) No removable toolhead. I believe the only reason Dillon went with one on any of their presses if because they didn't think of the quick change die bushing system first.

6) Indexing a half stage on the down stoke and another half on the up stroke.

That's what I recall off the top of my head.

[glock20c10mm]

No, I didn't forget anything Bob did or has done with his machines.
Steve said; "I did 5 mins per hundred within no time on my 650. Not 5:21 on a HIGHLY MODIFIED press."

I asked; "Define HIGHLY MODIFIED in regard to Bob's press. And please don't tell me "case feeder"."

Later you said; "If your asking what HIGHLY MODIFIED means in regards to Bob's LNL you haven't thoroughly read his posts."

All this in regard to you and Steve trying to get me to believe the only way Bob was able to accomplish loading 100 rounds in 5 minutes and 21 seconds was because his press was HIGHLY MODIFIED in order to make that happen.

So yeah, YOU DID FORGET what Bob did to his press and assumed at this point that the mods were for speed. Don't even try lying further on that one. Or, go ahead if you like, but I don't see it ending well for you if you choose to go further down the road in regard to your own credibility. I suppose you thought you would get away with that one as you didn't figure on me going back and reading both of Bob2223's threads, huh?

Or am I completely misreading this and you do have a way to weasel out of it? Possibly by suggesting you meant something different that what you posted? This should be good. Which way are you going to run with it?

One more thing; Isn't it true you've NEVER owned a LNL AP? But pulled the handle on one a few times and now consider yourself an expert on them to the extent you feel compelled to tell others it's a poor choice compared to a Dillon XL 650? Don't lie or exaggerate, the truth will set you free!

[noylj]

So, the Hornady has reported priming issues. Mine, as I said, was simply a loose shellplate.
I find it strange that the people doing the reporting so manys times say: "I have 550B, two 650s, and a L-N-L and my L-N-L wouldn't seat primers so I got rid of it." I think that scenario is suspicious.
My friend with 2 650s has had priming issues. I have had priming issues on 3 1050s.
There is NO progressive that doesn't have priming issues.
Also, my Pro-Jector and Pro-7 NEVER had priming issues and regretted the change in the priming system on the L-N-L, since I hated trying to reach under the press to change the primer seater. Then I started getting high primers, tried several things until I noticed the shellplate had gotten loose. Totally time I live with the issue was about 3 hours.
When I gave my son the press, he had priming issues. Took me about 10 seconds to tell him there was too much play in the bench. Got a new bench and everything works fine.
The "PRIMING ISSUE" consists of the shellplate being loose, or the timing being off, or the primer seater is a tad too short. There is no secret mysterious priming issue.
You should read threads about priming issues on the 1050.
It is sad when some have to tear down others to justify their own choices.
PS: Being retired, and if I had any money to burn, I thought for a short time it might be "fun" to see just how the LoadMaster works. That "Rube Goldburg" bouncing primer feed system seems like a real hoot to watch.
You'll never get my 1050s away from me, but I sure don't recommend them to just any one...

[glock20c10mm]

So, the Hornady has reported priming issues. Mine, as I said, was simply a loose shellplate.
I find it strange that the people doing the reporting so manys times say: "I have 550B, two 650s, and a L-N-L and my L-N-L wouldn't seat primers so I got rid of it." I think that scenario is suspicious.
My friend with 2 650s has had priming issues. I have had priming issues on 3 1050s.
There is NO progressive that doesn't have priming issues.
Also, my Pro-Jector and Pro-7 NEVER had priming issues and regretted the change in the priming system on the L-N-L, since I hated trying to reach under the press to change the primer seater. Then I started getting high primers, tried several things until I noticed the shellplate had gotten loose. Totally time I live with the issue was about 3 hours.
When I gave my son the press, he had priming issues. Took me about 10 seconds to tell him there was too much play in the bench. Got a new bench and everything works fine.
The "PRIMING ISSUE" consists of the shellplate being loose, or the timing being off, or the primer seater is a tad too short. There is no secret mysterious priming issue.
You should read threads about priming issues on the 1050.
It is sad when some have to tear down others to justify their own choices.
PS: Being retired, and if I had any money to burn, I thought for a short time it might be "fun" to see just how the LoadMaster works. That "Rube Goldburg" bouncing primer feed system seems like a real hoot to watch.
You'll never get my 1050s away from me, but I sure don't recommend them to just any one...
Very suspicious indeed. Especially to the extent some here would have us believe. I think some here are doing their best to turn a mole hill into a mountain.

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s271/glock20c10mm/Facepalms%20and%20Such/skeptical_hippo.jpg

You said; "I thought for a short time it might be "fun" to see just how the LoadMaster works. That "Rube Goldburg" bouncing primer feed system seems like a real hoot to watch."

I was thinking pretty much the same thing after watching some youtube video on that one!:rofl::animlol::rofl:

[kcbrown]

"Apparently" isn't cutting it for me, at least yet. I have yet to see more than a handful of instances. Then there are just as many if not more that have no issue and that's simply what can be seen on various forums.


Fair enough. Obviously, this is something each individual has to assess for himself.



I'm expecting the chances are pretty good I will be just fine. No guarantee right off the bat, but then again guarantees like that are pretty nonexistent.


Of course. It's just a question of the odds.



Is it really that big of a deal? I don't think so. Driving a vehicle is probably more of risk. But who's to say, as clearly no one around here has a clue as to what that risk level actually is, and there's no good reason to expect it's very high at all without lots of unestablished speculation and assumption.


But the rewards of driving a vehicle are quite significant -- they drastically outweigh the risk.

The question here is: does the additional reward of what the LnL brings to the table justify the additional risk it carries? If the primary advantage is cost, then it really comes down to what you're saving by taking on the extra risk. $100, particularly when amortized over the life of the press, seems like a very small reward for the risk in question.



I get the argument, but that's opinion and not fact, so far as anyone around here really knows.


Well, we are going by anecdotal evidence, of course, but it is measurable to at least some degree, by examining how many people with LnLs are reporting priming issues versus how many with Dillon 650s are reporting similar issues, and how many of each are able to get the problem fixed. You did agree, in not so many words, that the number of people experiencing such problems with the LnL is greater than the number with 650s who are experiencing them, so there is some fact involved here.



Does it really matter? If I told you what's already been posted, would you all of a sudden change your tune and say you know what, yeah, you're right, great reasoning, definitely go with the LNL?


Yeah, it matters. I wouldn't have asked if it didn't.



Clearly your biggest beef all along has been you say the LNL AP is riddled with issues and that it's practically insane for me to continue considering going with one because of it.


"Riddled with issues" is overstating it. But it does appear to have a well-known, unfixable issue that affects some subset of its owners. And I do find that to be cause for concern.

I mean, even the priming issues on the Lee progressive presses can be fixed, because they result not from errors in design but, rather, errors in implementation.



Turns out that's been practically proven to be a joke.


Well, in your case, I certainly hope you're right! But don't be surprised if you turn out to be wrong. It sounds like you're prepared for the possibility, so it's all good as far as I'm concerned. It's your money, your decision. I'm just curious what, exactly, you find so appealing about the LnL over the 650.



But yet you're still mentioning it above. So now I'm supposed to make this list for you telling you why I want a LNL over a XL 650, and then what, you're all of a sudden gonna change your tune? Do you wanna take a stab at why I seriously doubt that? Start with your track record in this thread so far.


My opinion is just an opinion. Take it or leave it. But I always try to approach things rationally, and this is no exception.

Do you really think I would have a couple of Lee progressives if I listened to the hype without thinking things through?



Here's some of my reasoning -

1) Quick change die bushings ALREADY BUILT INTO the LNL.


Easier to do certain types of caliber changes compared with a replaceable toolhead, harder to do others. Just depends, I suppose.



2) Better overall power measure system on LNL. And simple to swap metering inserts. And a variety of inserts to choose from even for the same application.


You'll certainly get no argument from me on that. I find the Dillon setup adequate for the powders I use, but there seems to be agreement that the LnL measure is generally better.



3) Lower conversion cost no matter how you slice it.


Sure, but it's all a question of how much of a difference it really is.



4) Cleaner overall design.


Could you elaborate on this a bit? In what way is the LnL design cleaner? I find the priming system in the 650 to be better designed than in any other press I've ever seen, including the 550 and the 1050.



5) No removable toolhead. I believe the only reason Dillon went with one on any of their presses if because they didn't think of the quick change die bushing system first.


That's possible. But a replaceable toolhead has the advantage that changing calibers at the top can be nearly instantaneous. But that's a minor difference in the end. The bushings are more flexible.



6) Indexing a half stage on the down stoke and another half on the up stroke.


How is this an advantage for you? I can see how it could matter if you're reloading tiny cases (9mm and smaller) or if you're filling your cases almost all the way up with powder. But I can tell you from experience that on a properly set up 650, you won't be spilling any powder from the cases due to shellplate movement on 9mm and larger unless you're rough on the press.

The disadvantage of the half-indexing system on the LnL has already been explained by C4W: the bullet has a greater chance of being knocked off the case prior to seating. I haven't any experience with it myself, so I don't know how much of a problem it is in practice, but having occasionally had poorly-placed bullets not remain on the case even without shellplate movement, I can see how it could cause additional problems (if only slightly).



If the differences between the LnL and the 650 really are compelling to you then you should get a LnL, no questions asked. And with any reasonable amount of luck, you won't have any problems with it.

[Boxerglocker]

So yeah, YOU DID FORGET what Bob did to his press and assumed at this point that the mods were for speed. Don't even try lying further on that one. Or, go ahead if you like, but I don't see it ending well for you if you choose to go further down the road in regard to your own credibility. I suppose you thought you would get away with that one as you didn't figure on me going back and reading both of Bob2223's threads, huh?

Or am I completely misreading this and you do have a way to weasel out of it? Possibly by suggesting you meant something different that what you posted? This should be good. Which way are you going to run with it?

One more thing; Isn't it true you've NEVER owned a LNL AP? But pulled the handle on one a few times and now consider yourself an expert on them to the extent you feel compelled to tell others it's a poor choice compared to a Dillon XL 650? Don't lie or exaggerate, the truth will set you free!

You want to what discredit my credibility.... have at it. Most of the regulars on this forum know me, what I do a number of the local PNW guys I shoot with as they shoot with me at various pistol and rifle matches in area.

No, I didn't forget what Bob did to his press. Of course I knew you would read his threads. I talked to Bob several times prior to upgrading presses and he knows what my concerns were. As I posted in that particular thread you referenced I tagged them and have forwarded them to a couple of others in attempts to get thier LNL to run as reliably as Bobs. That is what you are missing, he did it to increase the reliability.... without reliability and cases tipping over there is no speed. He added the tube shroud and filed the support that the V-block is mounted in to reduce the height that it sits of the slider area (Steve tried the felt to fill the gap), the lower it sits, the lower it touches the case thus mechanical advantage (leverage) is reduced. He also polished the slider area (to reduce friction and give a case a smooth surface to ride on). The lowered v-block then has less likely chance of tipping the case over as the leverage is reduced particularly when riding on the uneven primer flow as one left by a glock striker pin.

Yes, you are right I have never OWNED a LNL, but have loaded several hundred rounds on a couple of the machines in various calibers. One press owned by a individual that has it pretty much dedicated to .223
He is one of whom I forwarded the information to about Bobs v-block mod and actually helped him do it. It runs better but not nearly as reliable as a 650 as cases are still subject to tipping once you start to crank them out fast (doesn't happen as with a 650 as the case is held within the case locator rails, is locked in and unable to tip). In .223 it's a difference of about 1/3 the rate as a 650, cause you have to move slow to ensure cases don't tip. The indexing makes it that you have to hold the bullet on top as you pull the handle and the shellplate moves.

I don't need to lie or exagerate, why would I have to? I'm giving opinons based on one machine which I own as a baseline for another that at this point I have got significantly more experience on in the last few months. Which of the two machines have you loaded on? What frame of reference do you have? I do not consider myself to be an expert on a LNL but do consider myself to understand both machines pretty thoroughly. I've told you, looked into it very hard, based on the caliber conversion cost alone I would like to get one (To be clear a NON-CASEFED set-up, I could live with the different indexing but not the priming issues). If I knew the thing would work out of the box. I had a opportunity to buy a used one a while back at the time Bob posted that thread. I backed out once I sensed the seller hiding something when I questioned him on how well it worked.
I've looked into it to such a degree that if you want to give me the dimensions for both machines in regards to the lever movement, primer punch diameter and travel... I'll give you the formula to mathematically calculate the primer punch force being applied at the primer pocket, given equal applied force on both machines. It's merely geometry and engineering math.
Like I said get your LNL, if it suits your needs, budget and if you like the color have at it. I wish you well... but don't start a thread titled "Personal Progressive Press Experiences" ask for opinions, make a decision to buy a particular machine 8 months in the future and expect everyone to think you made the right decision, especially after a number have given opinions on why they think your making the wrong one and you keep stating "I hope I get a good one".

[kshutt]

In all of this, I wish I knew the percentage of "blue" users that had previously been "red" users, but switched due to problems or issues, and vice versa. :dunno:

[Colorado4Wheel]

Steve said; "I did 5 mins per hundred within no time on my 650. Not 5:21 on a HIGHLY MODIFIED press."

I asked; "Define HIGHLY MODIFIED in regard to Bob's press. And please don't tell me "case feeder"."

Later you said; "If your asking what HIGHLY MODIFIED means in regards to Bob's LNL you haven't thoroughly read his posts."

All this in regard to you and Steve trying to get me to believe the only way Bob was able to accomplish loading 100 rounds in 5 minutes and 21 seconds was because his press was HIGHLY MODIFIED in order to make that happen.


Well yes, he needed to modify the press to get it to load that fast. With out the mods the cases would not go in the shellplate. Even on the other calibers you have to modify the shellplate just to get them to go in OK. So yeah, it's kinda hard to load 100rds fast when the press isn't even putting the case into the shellplate.

Sorry man, you just don't get it at all.

[Colorado4Wheel]

"Apparently" isn't cutting it for me, at least yet. I have yet to see more than a handful of instances. Then there are just as many if not more that have no issue and that's simply what can be seen on various forums.

As for "Whatever the percentage is, it's enough to apparently be larger than the same percentage when applied to Dillon presses." I unquestionably agree.

Any press can have issues. The issue with the LnL is that there is no solution. It's not a setup issue, it's not a adjustment issue. Hornady can't fix it. People having primer seating issues are not the same as people having primer feed issues. Random primer feed issues happen to every press. But if you have a primer on the punch and you push to prime. It should be able to seat the primer. The only possible issue is a loose shellplate (after every other part was replaced). If you push hard enough to twist the ram and it still doesn't seat they the press just is not designed well in that area.

Just two threads of people all struggling with the same problem.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?p=1355333

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=125569&st=0

I have had more in the past but it wouldn't make a difference. People with a working LnL all assume everyone with a problem is a idiot and doesn't know how to tighten a bolt while on the phone with Hornady for 5 months straight.:whistling:

Just two threads of people all struggling with the same problem.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?p=1355333

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=125569&st=0

[Colorado4Wheel]

Here's some of my reasoning -

1) Quick change die bushings ALREADY BUILT INTO the LNL.

2) Better overall power measure system on LNL. And simple to swap metering inserts. And a variety of inserts to choose from even for the same application.

3) Lower conversion cost no matter how you slice it.

4) Cleaner overall design.

5) No removable toolhead. I believe the only reason Dillon went with one on any of their presses if because they didn't think of the quick change die bushing system first.

6) Indexing a half stage on the down stoke and another half on the up stroke.

That's what I recall off the top of my head.

Reasoning is great for arguing on a forum. Having a working press is priceless.


Toolhead is better then the bushings. Bushing twist when you don't want them to twist. They have a small advantage in one area and a huge PITA in another.

Indexing in half steps isn't important. All that matters is the press works when it index's.

You really want to claim the DESIGN of the lnl is better? It freaking doesn't work as well. But yeah, it looks cool.

Powder measure differences in pistol is probably not even measurable. In rifle you just pick a good powder. Not hard. My LnL would give light charges. I trust the dillon more. But I used it and you have read about it. For the record, you should read my thread about choosing the LnL. I used to believe just like you. I quickly learned I was WRONG. It's amazing how similar you are to what I was at that point.

http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1284161

But yes, the LnL is cheaper to convert.

[ursoboostd]

I'm just curious if the arguments will continue for another 8 months until you buy the LNL.......:whistling:

My exact thoughts! I think the OP has had enough "warning". Let him get a LNL already....

This thread is full of
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v449/ursoboostd/stuff/ror.jpg

[Tpro]

My question is this...What are you going to say if he gets a press that does not fall into the 1% that won't work?

I took mine out of the box, bolted it down and started making rounds. Did I get lucky? Maybe so. Buy I did my homework. I had the opportunity to see the LnL AP along side the Dillon and I still picked the LnL AP. And never looked back. All this talk about speed is pure BS. Period. I can load 600 rds/hour no sweat. Without the case feeder or bullet feeder. Speed comes from repetition. I would say that prolly 90% of the guys buying the LnL AP started on a Dillon, loaded hundreds of thousands of rounds on a Dillon and anything else just "feels" wrong. And when they can't get the speed they had on a Dillon they fault the press, instad of spending time working on ergonomics.

Obviously, C4W had his own circumstances. But I'll say it again. If you bend the press trying to seat a primer (or any other task) YOU ARE WRONG. PERIOD. You can be pissed off, you can hate the press, you can take a hammer to it. But to bend the press up trying to do a task is silly. Pulling harder on a lever is like getting a bigger hammer. Inexcuseable. BUT, if I had happen what C4W did I too, would be pissed off. I still would not have bent the press trying to seat a primer. I would have smashed the s^*t out of it with a big hammer and THEN sent it back. That is my .02 so the "blue guys" can flame on.

PS After looking a 2 LoadMasters (one in pieces and one together on the bench) no one in their right mind can compare a LM to the LnL AP. No way. I looked at (and measured with my own tools) the LM and the machine work and materials was so low quality it was sad. Not trying to piss off the Lee crowd but I know what I measured and looked at. No comparison. In fact, that is why my friend has 2 LM's. One to measure and one to use. Sadly, the one on the bench to use is no better than the one apart and the one on the bench is 5 years newer. So Lee didn't address the issue.

[freakshow10mm]

What a shame. 8 stations that, except for pocket swaging, are equivalent to a 5 station press.
The biggest advantage of the 1050 is not the provision for pocket swaging but the ability to prime on the downstroke. This gives much more control over the primer insertion than the standard push-to-seat operations of every other press on the market. I only load one cartridge that may have crimped primers (9mm) but priming on the downstroke just makes loading so much more enjoyable and faster. I load 9, 40, 10mm, and 45. I could never downgrade to another machine now that I have loaded on the 1050, even though the latter three don't need swaging and could be done on a 550 or 650. I got rid of my 550 in favor of the 1050.

[Tpro]

The biggest advantage of the 1050 is not the provision for pocket swaging but the ability to prime on the downstroke. This gives much more control over the primer insertion than the standard push-to-seat operations of every other press on the market. I only load one cartridge that may have crimped primers (9mm) but priming on the downstroke just makes loading so much more enjoyable and faster. I load 9, 40, 10mm, and 45. I could never downgrade to another machine now that I have loaded on the 1050, even though the latter three don't need swaging and could be done on a 550 or 650. I got rid of my 550 in favor of the 1050.

You are talking about the "downstroke" of the handle not the ram.

This is the same as the LoadMaster.

[Colorado4Wheel]

Obviously, C4W had his own circumstances. But I'll say it again. If you bend the press trying to seat a primer (or any other task) YOU ARE WRONG. PERIOD. You can be pissed off, you can hate the press, you can take a hammer to it. But to bend the press up trying to do a task is silly.

Jeez, I wasn't taking out anger on the press. I was pushing to prime trying to get a primer to seat. The LnL ram is hollow and thin. It flexes very easily and twists (not bends in the way your suggesting). You can't even see it easily unless you know how to look at what is going on. But the primer punch tip is locked in the frame and the ram twist causing the primer to seat a little tipped. So you clearly don't understand what is going on when the press doesn't work. Only when it does.

[Colorado4Wheel]

I'm done with this thread. PM me if you have questions about my situation.

[ron59]

I'm done with this thread. PM me if you have questions about my situation.

12 pages for you to finally get to this point? LOL... nobody can say you didn't try!

[Tpro]

Jeez, I wasn't taking out anger on the press. I was pushing to prime trying to get a primer to seat. The LnL ram is hollow and thin. It flexes very easily and twists (not bends in the way your suggesting). You can't even see it easily unless you know how to look at what is going on. But the primer punch tip is locked in the frame and the ram twist causing the primer to seat a little tipped. So you clearly don't understand what is going on when the press doesn't work. Only when it does.

I was going off my memory of what you said. Regardless I CLEARLY understand how the press operates. I never need to force it to seat a primer. If you can pull hard enough on the handle to bend, twist or flex anything STOP. You can't tell me that isn't what every noob reloader is told? That was/is my point.

Again, it's funny that you think you are the only one who understands how the press operates. I understand it well. Maybe I should go out, strip my press down and see how "thin" the ram is. In reality, the ram should only see compression, not bending. Should it be solid?

[Colorado4Wheel]

You don't understand what I am saying is happening when the press doesn't work. I am sure you know how to use your press. If you want me to explain it to you pm me and I will shoot you my phone number and I will explain what happens when the primer punch bottoms out and show you how to see it on your press as well. It's easier to do that then try and explain it in words on a forum. I am sure yours works fine, but I can show you how to see what it looks like when it does do what mine was doing. It's not a huge amount of twist. But when you know what to look for it's pretty obvious.

[Tpro]

You don't understand what I am saying is happening when the press doesn't work. I am sure you know how to use your press. If you want me to explain it to you pm me and I will shoot you my phone number and I will explain what happens when the primer punch bottoms out and show you how to see it on your press as well. It's easier to do that then try and explain it in words on a forum. I am sure yours works fine, but I can show you how to see what it looks like when it does do what mine was doing. It's not a huge amount of twist. But when you know what to look for it's pretty obvious.

After it cools off I will go out and look at my press. Can't be that hard to figure out. My point is; How much force did you use to bend it? I can put almost my full body weight on the handle and can't twist anything. Had to be a huge amount of force to twist/bend/tweak it. That's all I'm saying. no way was it normal force to seat a primer. Not a chance.

[Colorado4Wheel]

After it cools off I will go out and look at my press. Can't be that hard to figure out. My point is; How much force did you use to bend it? I can put almost my full body weight on the handle and can't twist anything. Had to be a huge amount of force to twist/bend/tweak it. That's all I'm saying. no way was it normal force to seat a primer. Not a chance.


Jeez:faint:

[Colorado4Wheel]

For the record, it doesn't take a lot of force to get the linkages and the ram to flex a little. It's not like any of these presses have precision machined everything. There is a gap in all linkages and those tolerances allow things to twist a little. If you don't want to talk on the phone stop asking me freaking questions and stop acting like I am some ham handed idiot.

[GioaJack]

I'm done with this thread. PM me if you have questions about my situation.


:dunno: :supergrin:


Jack

[Tpro]

For the record, it doesn't take a lot of force to get the linkages and the ram to flex a little. It's not like any of these presses have precision machined everything. There is a gap in all linkages and those tolerances allow things to twist a little. If you don't want to talk on the phone stop asking me freaking questions and stop acting like I am some ham handed idiot.

I'm not much of a phone guy. I didn't ask you a question (directly) but made a questioning statement to any here who are questioning the OP's decision to purchase the LnL AP. I for sure will never direct a question to you again. Like I said, after it cools off I may go out and look at it. If I don't it really won't make a difference to me.

Also, I don't recall calling you a ham handed idiot. I realize you think we all doubt you and your abilities. Nothing could be further from the truth. It's just some of these things don't even make reasonable sense. But for sure I'll never direct a question your way again.

[n2extrm]

Jeez:faint:

:brickwall:

Crazy: Doing the same thing over and over expecting different results or outcome. :rofl:Give up Steve, I have. If it isn't a LNL it is over priced and therefore junk. :upeyes: Dillon is just not a good value, you don't understand. Even though you owned both and tried to make the best of the LNL you just don't get it because you drank the blue koolaid. All you Dillon guys are the same. :upeyes:You probably get commision for saying these things. Oh wait I am one of those Dillon guys. Wheres my commision? :crying:

[Tpro]

:brickwall:

Crazy: Doing the same thing over and over expecting different results or outcome. :rofl:Give up Steve, I have. If it isn't a LNL it is over priced and therefore junk. :upeyes: Dillon is just not a good value, you don't understand. Even though you owned both and tried to make the best of the LNL you just don't get it because you drank the blue koolaid. All you Dillon guys are the same. :upeyes:You probably get commision for saying these things. Oh wait I am one of those Dillon guys. Wheres my commision? :crying:


Yup Steve's was bad so they all are. This post^^^^^^is counterproductive.

[freakshow10mm]

You are talking about the "downstroke" of the handle not the ram.

This is the same as the LoadMaster.
No I am not. The downstroke of the toolhead (for other presses it's raising the shellplate/ram). All the operations on the 1050 are done at once. You do not seat the primer as a separate manipulation of the press. It happens the same timer everything happens. When you size, swage, charge, seat, crimp, you are also seating a primer with the same stroke of the handle.

[n2extrm]

Yup Steve's was bad so they all are. This post^^^^^^is counterproductive.


It seems any fact or experience that goes against anything you think is issue for you. The guys who have owned a LNL and went blue, the guys who researched both and went blue and the guys who have tried both give credit to some of what the LNL has brought to the table in general. The guys who are using the LNL seem to be more negative to anything blue.

As for counter productive you have contibuted nothing of any real value (IMO) and have dodged any reasl fact or experience exchange. That is the general purpouse of these threads to be a discussion of fact and opinion. Even when steve offered to speak to you on the phone to more easilly explain what he was trying to exspress, you dissregaurd his attempts to have the exchange.

As you are new here I would understand you may not know some of the regualrs. I do put value in what Steve says. Why because in the past we have shared ideas and thoughts. Logicaly what he said, even when we dissagreed, was valid and helpfull. I learned to respect people who have these kinds of disscussions. I also know how hard he tried to make it work and how bad he really wanted it work. I have some knowledge of his technical and mental capcity to solve evaluate and problems. Based on these facts I know if there was any possible way for him to make it work he would have tried it or taken another press and tried again.

I also (and again I know you are unaware of this) did alot of research on the LNL and the 650 before I made my decission to buy two 650s. I feel the press is just a better press, for alot of the reasons said. I do respect anyone who chosses to try or even has success with there LNL. I donot feel that respect is allways reciprecated and that was the base of my comment. I am whatching people who just say "no thats not true the LNL is better and you are using it wrong" over and over. So I appoligize for my "counter productive" comment. I am sorry I offended you.

Please let me add the following "productive" comment. One of the things any potentila purchaser should remeber is the LNL is an infant in the progressive market both by age and market share. The former afeecting the latter to some degree. This means they will have more growing pains to get through that other more "mature" companies have overcome allready. Additionaly the number of presses out there VS the return precent may be misunderstood. In other words if I produce andsell 1000 reloading presses from my company and 10 get returned with problems I have a 1% failure rate. However if Steves company produces and sells 30,000 presses and 30 get returned for problems he has a .1% failure rate even though more got returned. Now if we flip that I make 1000 and 30 get returned I have a 3% return rate and Steve with his same 30000 market share gets 10 back he is at (roughly) .033%. So even though you see 10 threads (just picking a number here) about each of the red and blue presses with a problem, the precent of good presses and bad presses out in the hands of reloaders would still indicate less problems over all with the blue press. This is simply because there are so many more out there and then compounded by the age of some of those presses.

[GioaJack]

^^^ Not a bad post for a flatlander.


Jack

[Boxerglocker]

^^^ Not a bad post for a flatlander.


Jack

:agree: nice post n2extrem. Lot's of people forget when comparing machines that the XL650 has been around a long time, designed ground up in 1994 to be a casefeed machine and according to Dillon the only one that has virtually unchanged in design since. If people choose to compare the LNL and XL650, the LNL needs to be a complete casefeed set-up.

[glock20c10mm]

Well, we are going by anecdotal evidence, of course, but it is measurable to at least some degree, by examining how many people with LnLs are reporting priming issues versus how many with Dillon 650s are reporting similar issues, and how many of each are able to get the problem fixed. You did agree, in not so many words, that the number of people experiencing such problems with the LnL is greater than the number with 650s who are experiencing them, so there is some fact involved here.
Everybody here is going by anecdotal evidence. That's a portion of my point.

The question isn't and never was whether a 650 experiences any more or less issue with a non corrective issue regarding seating primers compared to the LNL AP.

For all practical purposes the non corrective issue seen with a handful of LNL presses is non existent with the 650.

The question is, how many LNL presses are affected with the non corrective primer seating issue. So far there is no reason to suspect that percentage even hits 1% overall based on what we know for a fact (little to nothing in terms of the number of presses with the issue) along with what nobody here will probably ever know (how many LNL presses have been sold in it's current design phase).

Folks like C4W and Boxerglocker and ursoboostd and ron59 and n2xtrm and to a lesser extent you and fredj338, span from the notion that it's not to smart to take the chance on the LNL regardless the number that are beyond fixing right out of the box in comparison to whatever total amount of sold LNL units are, all the way to making it sound as if you're practically guaranteed to get a LNL that will not work period. That latter of course is a complete joke. The first is open to individual opinion as no one really knows, but at the same time it's pretty clear it hasn't come close to reaching epidemic proportions.

Either way we've got a guy like Steve chiming in insisting on dooms day levels of animosity toward the LNL because he got a bad one along with a number of others you can count with the fingers of 2 hands, if that, and Boxerglocker plain agreeing with everything he says. When it obviously isn't true. Again, attempting to turn the proverbial mole hill into a mountain.

And on top of all that Steve bases the dooms day level of animosity toward the LNL as if there is no other significance to owning one over any other press (mainly between LNL & 650), which there is. Some opinion and some fact. This can be seen in various posts throughout this specific thread from various happy LNL owners, including some running Dillon presses right along side them. So to simply suggest what Steve and Boxerglocker (among a couple others) say is just plain fooey.

Already we can now see it being brought up questioning how I can begin to say much of what I have as of late as if I couldn't know what I'm talking about because of have no experience in handloading/reloading period. Is it really so hard to understand when there are LNL owners posting in this same thread completely disagreeing with Steve and his disciples? Or is it that I must disregard all they have to say in favor of someone who has shown favor to exaggeration in many statements and ignored most of the other positive LNL commentary that is not being questioned?

I, unlike others, am looking at this from both sides of the thought process toward it being practical owning a LNL AP. So far the Dillon Only crowd ignores all other sides for all practical purposes. The Hornady Only crowd claims to be at minimum happy overall with the LNL AP. And the folks who own both like both for different reasons, sometimes favoring one overall, but generally are far from any true aggravation with either.

From what I have seen overall, GT and elsewhere, I have little to no reason to suspect the unfixable issue with LNL presses not seating primers properly to be something under 1% of all LNL sales. If that's even relatively close to true, I see zero reason not to "take my chances" with a LNL AP. Clearly others 99% disagree, but then those others are 99% in love with Dillon. Then there are others that 99% disagree with the Dillon crowd who are generally in love with Hornady 99%. And then we have those who own both and more less say to flip a coin.

And since the only issue worth mentioning, for those that don't load 9mm, is the tiny chance you'll get a LNL that doesn't seat primers properly, I certainly don't see enough reason not to go LNL when I do have fair reasoning to choose it over a XL 650, IMO, that some others also agree with.

For anyone paying attention to ALL that ALL have posted, I would say my decision is 100% rational. Clearly some will always disagree, and some will always agree, and others will remain in the flip a coin category or simply stay silent. That said, some of the comments within the 100% antiLNL crowd are just plain silly. Don't need any experience on anything to see through some of that.

Could you elaborate on this a bit? In what way is the LnL design cleaner? I find the priming system in the 650 to be better designed than in any other press I've ever seen, including the 550 and the 1050.
Really just talking about looks. Too each their own.

How is this an advantage for you? I can see how it could matter if you're reloading tiny cases (9mm and smaller) or if you're filling your cases almost all the way up with powder. But I can tell you from experience that on a properly set up 650, you won't be spilling any powder from the cases due to shellplate movement on 9mm and larger unless you're rough on the press.
Then it probably won't matter for me. No worse no better I guess.

The disadvantage of the half-indexing system on the LnL has already been explained by C4W: the bullet has a greater chance of being knocked off the case prior to seating. I haven't any experience with it myself, so I don't know how much of a problem it is in practice, but having occasionally had poorly-placed bullets not remain on the case even without shellplate movement, I can see how it could cause additional problems (if only slightly).
Yes, C4W has attempted to make that case. His argument does make sense in the most basic sense. But unless someone is seriously manhandling the press, along with working the press fast enough to load faster than one can keep a close eye on all that is going on according to a number of others here, I'm not seeing it as a true issue for most reloaders.

If the differences between the LnL and the 650 really are compelling to you then you should get a LnL, no questions asked. And with any reasonable amount of luck, you won't have any problems with it.
They are, and I believe that if I don't get a good one that Hornady will make it right.

[glock20c10mm]

You want to what discredit my credibility.... have at it.
I don't. You did. Twist it anyway you want, it won't change that fact.

[glock20c10mm]

Well yes, he needed to modify the press to get it to load that fast. With out the mods the cases would not go in the shellplate. Even on the other calibers you have to modify the shellplate just to get them to go in OK. So yeah, it's kinda hard to load 100rds fast when the press isn't even putting the case into the shellplate.

Sorry man, you just don't get it at all.
In Bob2223's case specifically, which was all that discussion revolved around specifically, Bob said in his experience he had no issue with the case feeder with any cartridge he or his friend loaded for, except for the 9mm. I'm not going to ever load 9mm. Did you not understand that when it was clearly pointed out earlier? Try to keep up.

[Colorado4Wheel]

Seriously, I never ever ever said dooms day kinda stuff about the LnL. I been telling you to get the LnL. Get it now. I prefer the 650 over the LnL by a HUGE margin. But I have never said it nearly as strongly as you guys are implying. I know people have LnL's and are happy with them. Thats pretty obvious. It's also pretty obvious that some people have significant problems that they just can't fix. To me the 650 is a obvious choice. Of course I bought a LnL before I bought a 650 so I clearly understand the allure of the LnL. I bought one for all those reasons. After owning it I found most those reasons just don't matter. 650 is a great press, LnL is just 90% of the 650 imho. Assuming it primes. So stop misrepresenting me and my statements.

As far as Bobs working. That's great. Others had issues that he didn't have in calibers different calibers. His success in other calibers doesn't mean yours will work in 10mm.

[Colorado4Wheel]

Yes, C4W has attempted to make that case. His argument does make sense in the most basic sense. But unless someone is seriously manhandling the press, along with working the press fast enough to load faster than one can keep a close eye on all that is going on according to a number of others here, I'm not seeing it as a true issue for most reloaders.


I'm wrong and you have never even used the press. But you know I am wrong. Sorry man. That is really unbelievable. NEVER EVEN USED THE PRESS.:faint:

It's not a argument. It was my experience with the LnL and not my experience with the 650. I tried to share my experience with you and clearly that was a bad idea. Remember I believed just like you about 10 months ago. JUST LIKE YOU. Sorry I ever tried to help you.

[glock20c10mm]

Any press can have issues. The issue with the LnL is that there is no solution.
Yes. And with the LNL it's only if you get one with the issue. And the issue that some are dealing with regarding the LNL seems to me to be relatively rare. Therefore it doesn't concern me enough to warrant not attempting to go with a LNL AP. Especially when the LNL has features/benefits that I would prefer compared to the XL 650.

[Hoser]

This silliness isnt over yet?

[glock20c10mm]

Reasoning is great for arguing on a forum. Having a working press is priceless.
Most LNL presses work fine.

Toolhead is better then the bushings. Bushing twist when you don't want them to twist. They have a small advantage in one area and a huge PITA in another.
I don't see anyone else complaining about it. Therefore I believe what you're suggesting to pretty much be a non issue. Let's see if anyone else says different, who actually owns a LNL press that has worked fine from the beginning, now that it's been brought up again.

Indexing in half steps isn't important. All that matters is the press works when it index's.
I agree.

You really want to claim the DESIGN of the lnl is better? It freaking doesn't work as well. But yeah, it looks cool.
Yours didn't. Others seem to be quite happy. Under best case scenario Hornady suggests at maximum speed the LNL AP with bullet and case feeders should handle 1000 rounds per hour. That's an average of 83 rounds every 5 minutes plus keeping primers, powder, bullets, and cases, replenished. That's absolute max under a best case scenario. That said, all else being equal, if I could load 800 rounds in an hour I'ld be more than happy, and now we're down to an average of 67 rounds every 5 minutes.

I understand, you insist on being easily being able to do at least or more than 100 rounds in 5 minutes. I for one don't care about turning the whole reloading process into an aerobic exercise. I mean, one round every 3 seconds or less is just not necessary by most standards, including mine.

Powder measure differences in pistol is probably not even measurable. In rifle you just pick a good powder. Not hard. My LnL would give light charges. I trust the dillon more. But I used it and you have read about it.
I read about it from people who used it, just like you.

For the record, you should read my thread about choosing the LnL. I used to believe just like you. I quickly learned I was WRONG. It's amazing how similar you are to what I was at that point.
Yes and no. When you got a bad one you gave up. I probably won't get a bad one, and if I do I expect Hornady will make it right, and I'll restart with another before totally writing Hornady off as a complete failure, which clearly they aren't.

[WiskyT]

http://techrights.org/files/trolltracker/20080528155008/troll.gif


I posted this two weeks ago.

[Boxerglocker]

Seriously, I never ever ever said dooms day kinda stuff about the LnL. I been telling you to get the LnL. Get it now. I prefer the 650 over the LnL by a HUGE margin. But I have never said it nearly as strongly as you guys are implying. I know people have LnL's and are happy with them. Thats pretty obvious. It's also pretty obvious that some people have significant problems that they just can't fix. To me the 650 is a obvious choice. Of course I bought a LnL before I bought a 650 so I clearly understand the allure of the LnL. I bought one for all those reasons. After owning it I found most those reasons just don't matter. 650 is a great press, LnL is just 90% of the 650 imho. Assuming it primes. So stop misrepresenting me and my statements.

As far as Bobs working. That's great. Others had issues that he didn't have in calibers different calibers. His success in other calibers doesn't mean yours will work in 10mm.

LOL :rofl: that's the funniest thing about all this... everyone has said to him to get the LNL and with well wishes several times. He has himself stated "I hope I get a good one" in 8 months when I finally fork over my tax refund.
Yet, when others state that thier opinon is the LNL has short commings in compared to a 650 he argues the merits of a machine he has never used or touched. He has zero reference to a comparison and yet attacks all that oppose his decision in any degree.

[glock20c10mm]

I'm wrong and you have never even used the press. But you know I am wrong. Sorry man. That is really unbelievable. NEVER EVEN USED THE PRESS.:faint:

It's not a argument. It was my experience with the LnL and not my experience with the 650. I tried to share my experience with you and clearly that was a bad idea. Remember I believed just like you about 10 months ago. JUST LIKE YOU. Sorry I ever tried to help you.
That is a misrepresentation of what I said. Clearly I said you were CORRECT. Just not within reason to the conversation in context according to NUMEROUS others with just as much and more reloading experience than you.

Now what was it you posted to me just a bit ago? Oh yeah; "So stop misrepresenting me and my statements."

[glock20c10mm]

I posted this two weeks ago.
And?:dunno:

[glock20c10mm]

LOL :rofl: that's the funniest thing about all this... everyone has said to him to get the LNL and with well wishes several times. He has himself stated "I hope I get a good one" in 8 months when I finally fork over my tax refund.
Yet, when others state that thier opinon is the LNL has short commings in compared to a 650 he argues the merits of a machine he has never used or touched. He has zero reference to a comparison and yet attacks all that oppose his decision in any degree.
Are you saying that the only experiences that matter are those that use Dillon presses solely, but with Hornady press owner experiences it's just the opposite?

[Hoser]

I posted this two weeks ago.

You are wise beyond your years.

[Tpro]

It seems any fact or experience that goes against anything you think is issue for you. The guys who have owned a LNL and went blue, the guys who researched both and went blue and the guys who have tried both give credit to some of what the LNL has brought to the table in general. The guys who are using the LNL seem to be more negative to anything blue.

As for counter productive you have contibuted nothing of any real value (IMO) and have dodged any reasl fact or experience exchange. That is the general purpouse of these threads to be a discussion of fact and opinion. Even when steve offered to speak to you on the phone to more easilly explain what he was trying to exspress, you dissregaurd his attempts to have the exchange.

As you are new here I would understand you may not know some of the regualrs. I do put value in what Steve says. Why because in the past we have shared ideas and thoughts. Logicaly what he said, even when we dissagreed, was valid and helpfull. I learned to respect people who have these kinds of disscussions. I also know how hard he tried to make it work and how bad he really wanted it work. I have some knowledge of his technical and mental capcity to solve evaluate and problems. Based on these facts I know if there was any possible way for him to make it work he would have tried it or taken another press and tried again.

I also (and again I know you are unaware of this) did alot of research on the LNL and the 650 before I made my decission to buy two 650s. I feel the press is just a better press, for alot of the reasons said. I do respect anyone who chosses to try or even has success with there LNL. I donot feel that respect is allways reciprecated and that was the base of my comment. I am whatching people who just say "no thats not true the LNL is better and you are using it wrong" over and over. So I appoligize for my "counter productive" comment. I am sorry I offended you.

Please let me add the following "productive" comment. One of the things any potentila purchaser should remeber is the LNL is an infant in the progressive market both by age and market share. The former afeecting the latter to some degree. This means they will have more growing pains to get through that other more "mature" companies have overcome allready. Additionaly the number of presses out there VS the return precent may be misunderstood. In other words if I produce andsell 1000 reloading presses from my company and 10 get returned with problems I have a 1% failure rate. However if Steves company produces and sells 30,000 presses and 30 get returned for problems he has a .1% failure rate even though more got returned. Now if we flip that I make 1000 and 30 get returned I have a 3% return rate and Steve with his same 30000 market share gets 10 back he is at (roughly) .033%. So even though you see 10 threads (just picking a number here) about each of the red and blue presses with a problem, the precent of good presses and bad presses out in the hands of reloaders would still indicate less problems over all with the blue press. This is simply because there are so many more out there and then compounded by the age of some of those presses.


I only read this down to the part where he starts talking about me being "new" here and then I quit. Because I have not been a member here for years, because I don't want to talk on the phone to someone over an issue HE HAD (and I am not having) to try and convince me that there is an issue with the LnL AP not being able to seat a primer, being inferior in material and manufacture etc. I am discounted. Total BS. My experiecne with reloading in general (and with the LnL AP in particular and I will state AGAIN I had the chance to use a 650 which I did not care for) seems to be different from the general population here at GT. You can have your opinion yet I can't have mine? The height of hypocrisy for sure.

I promised myself when I joined here I would not indulge in these ignorant arguements. But I got sucked in when I watched a guy getting blasted because he was going to choose the LnL AP over the 650. I'll never do it again.

For the record I read a post at BE the other day on the same damn topic. A guy actually MEASURED his brass and a primer and found out it is nearly IMPOSSIBLE to seat a SPP below flush by more than .002-.003 because it is just not there. My measurements say the same. He went on to say he figured with the ADDED leverage of the 650, the primers thought to be seated "below flush" were actually being slightly crushed. This is the most logical statement I have read yet, but will be poo-poo'd by most. Go measure some brass and primers and then tell me how far below flush they can go.

I'm done with threads like this, but will leave with this statement: Please only buy Dillon reloading equipment. Only it functions. It will never break and you will be loved by all. It won't rain in the summer at your house. You will become a world class competitive shooter because your reloaded ammo is done on a Dillon.

There. I'm happy now. I'll order my XL 650 Monday so I can fit in with the group.

[Colorado4Wheel]

The ammo goes bang or it doesn't. Mine wouldn't between two differnt LnL's. I could have tried a third but didn't see the point.

[Hoser]

I'll order my XL 650 Monday so I can fir in with the group.

I dont own a single 650 nor do I plan to. I will stick to my 1050s and 550s.

I guess I dont fit in either.

[freakshow10mm]

This silliness isnt over yet?
You haven't read many of glock20c10mm's threads, have you? :rofl:

[Boxerglocker]

Are you saying that the only experiences that matter are those that use Dillon presses solely, but with Hornady press owner experiences it's just the opposite?

No not at all.... see this is where you take the the whole thread for a loop.
Which press, auto indexing with casefeeder, have you had ANY experience with? Are you a Horandy press owner, yet? I have a hundred odd thousand rounds under my belt with 4 machines I have personally owned in the last 3 years. I have loaded on the LNL, three owned by friends and shooting associates. Admittedly, only one had a casefeed set-up which I already stated had issues and I assisted him in improving the performance by referencing him to Bobs fix. It at least gives me a base for my view (a reference) and that conclusion is it still wasn't up to par with that of a 650.
I've taken the time to actually compare same stamped cases and using the same brand primers seated them in both and felt which machine has the higher priming leverage, seen which machine seats primers deeper into the primer pockets.
No one neither C4w, N2extrem, Fred, Bob nor myself or any other "Dillon guy" is staying that the LNL is an absolute POS that can't load ammo... we are saying that the press has unexplained DESIGN issues that don't make it the 650's equal.
Once again, I'll say.... get your LNL... I honestly hope it works out for you and the press works to YOUR expectations.

[fredj338]

Folks like C4W and Boxerglocker and ursoboostd and ron59 and n2xtrm and to a lesser extent you and fredj338, span from the notion that it's not to smart to take the chance on the LNL regardless the number that are beyond fixing right out of the box in comparison to whatever total amount of sold LNL units are, all the way to making it sound as if you're practically guaranteed to get a LNL that will not work period.
I don't think anyone has said buying the LNL over the 650 has anything to do with ones intelligence. Based on personnal exp & observation, the 650 is just a better machine. After all, it is what every manuf wants to make, mahcine that can compete w/ the 650. The LNL does that, but the 650 is slightly, measureably better in certain ways which have been kicked around.
Toolhead is better then the bushings. Bushing twist when you don't want them to twist. They have a small advantage in one area and a huge PITA in another.
I don't see anyone else complaining about it. Therefore I believe what you're suggesting to pretty much be a non issue. Let's see if anyone else says different, who actually owns a LNL press that has worked fine from the beginning, now that it's been brought up again. The tool head vs bushing thing is one of the reasons I do NOT like the LNL. It can be an issue if the bushings & press tolerances allow the bushings ot work loose, which I have seen happen. This can be annoying, having to tighten them, to really annoying, having a loose bushing shear the locking lug off, yeah seen it happen. The 650 tool head is pretty straight forward & the worst that can happen, is it has a little manuf slop which is easily shimed or peened out.
The LNL is a good machine, I don;t see anyone really trying to talk you out of one, but if you are asking for, which you were, opinions on both, that is what you are getting. SOme guys are just more emphatic about their opinions, but you ultimately are spending the money. So like when Steve went LNL instead, he paid the price & moved on.

[WiskyT]

.
But I got sucked in when I watched a guy getting blasted because he was going to choose the LnL AP over the 650. I'll never do it again.



The guy didn't get blasted for supporting the LNL. He got blasted for being an argumentative PITA. He asked for peoples' opinions, and then argued with them. If I ask you what the best flavor for ice cream is, and you tell me vanilla, I can't very well argue with that can I?

[El_Ron1]

The press I've never had is the best! :miff:

[pm666]

I subscribed to this thread thinking it would help me decide which press to purchase. There is good information in this thread.

I've been aware of Colorado's LNL experience which is alarming for me. I am new to reloading and I wouldn't want it to become a fulll-time job.

I have a buddy that has an LNL and I guess it works fine, but he is new at reloading and I'm not sure he is aware of everything that is going on. He thinks I'm crazy for not buying an LNL right now instead of a blue one.

I am afraid of creating a double charge and therefore need a powder cop, but I would have to buy a 650 in order to have that on a blue as I don't want to seat and crimp in one station. I don't need a casefeeder and whatever else a 650 takes advantage of.

I am only smarter for reading this thread - thanks to everyone that has participated.

[jbrown13]

You haven't read many of glock20c10mm's threads, have you? :rofl:

One has to wonder if glock20c10mm is a Troll that enjoys baiting people into confrontation, just for the sake of confrontation.

Moderator, please put this thread out of its misery.

[noylj]

Bushing bad? Why? I have had one (1) bushing loosen up on the powder measure. Cahnged to a different bushing. A twist of what? 33 degrees? and the bushing is out and the next bushing/die is in. Toolhead? Excellent, if you like spending that kind of money on something that has play in it and moves up and down with the ram.
I have over 30 years of good experiencs with Hornady APs, from the first model. I HATED the 650 without a case feeder. I HATED the 550, period. I've looked at the SDB at the Dillon store and really didn't like it. Excellent if you need something compact, but all Dillons are more compact than I like.
It is why I tell people to go to the manufacturer's site and watch any videos available and download the manuals and read them. Go to YouTube and watch how some people are handling the various presses.
It was very easy to teach my son on a L-N-L AP. It is more open and you can more easily see what is happening.
I still would like to see real pictures of the L-N-Ls that "users" are complaining about. Hornady has made some very quick changes when a real problem shows up (see the PTX and other changes they have made to a powder system that works fine for me--except for .380 Auto, and the primer rod I hear they are including with the press now).
Of all my Hornady APs (starting with the first (Pro-Jector?) in the late '70s?), I had one go out of timing and that was because I broke/cracked a pawl and I had to re-time it. I have had one problem with the primer feed--the LNL doesn't like to feed the last primer (any more than my 1050s like to feed the last primer). I solved it with a Dillon rod. Hornady now includes one, I am told (I hope it is a little longer than the Dillon rod). I had problems with primers not seating below flush. Once I tightened my shell plate, the problem was solved.
The only parts I remember replacing were the retaining spring (twice) and one pawl, after loading for a little over 30 years on the Hornady APs. I was disappointed with the L-N-L because all the other models and modifications, I could do myself or I sent the press back to Hornady and they swapped it out, for a reasonable charge, with a new press. So far, it seems that human error has been the cause of any problems with my presses and not deficient engineering.

[noylj]

PM666:
Please, don't buy a 650 unless you buy a case feeder. I have used one without and it was truly a pain--up and down to fill the case tube (thnk god. I guess it came with it, wouldn't even want to think about getting up every ram cycle to drop a case into the presses case feed on the right side of the press.
I went into the Dillon store and a guy was buying a 605 and ALL other equipment and consumables. Everything you could think of except the case feeder. Thousands of dollars--bullets, cases, powder, primers, and all the rest of the equipment you might dream of having.
I told him he really needed a case feeder and he laughed at me. I'll bet within the month, he was back.
To use a powder cop (PLEASE, get the RCBS Lock-Out Die and NOT any silly powder cop), you need 5 stations, minimum (see L-N-L, 650, and 1050) and a powder-through expander powder measure such as the L-N-L, Dillon, or Lee Pro Auto-Disk. The Hornady is the most complicted to set-up. It is also slightly more repeatable. I like the Dillon powder measure system for loading in-bulk, provided you get the cartridge specific "powder funnels"--what everyone else would call a powder-through expander. It is not without some slight problems, but in general it is the easiest to use.

[kcbrown]

Yes and no. When you got a bad one you gave up.


That's not quite true.

When he got a bad one, he let Hornady take multiple stabs at fixing it and they failed.

And from his other messages, it seems he did try a second unit (that wasn't his own, from the looks of it). That one didn't work out, either, it seems.


I probably won't get a bad one, and if I do I expect Hornady will make it right, and I'll restart with another before totally writing Hornady off as a complete failure, which clearly they aren't.

I suspect you won't get a bad one either. Only time will tell.

Fortunately, if the worst happens, you have options, even if they aren't as pretty. :supergrin:

[Colorado4Wheel]

The first one didn't work. Tried multiple parts that Hornady sent. Including a new subplate that they said would cure the problem. After that didn't work I returned the press. The gave me a new frame, ram, and custom tuned linkages (whatever that means). Basically everything on the frame from what I can tell (but hand built). So to me that is press #2. It also would not seat CCI primers properly either.

[glock20c10mm]

No not at all.... see this is where you take the the whole thread for a loop.
You've misunderstood what I was pointing out. In case you didn't notice, there are happy LNL owners that have posted numerous times in this thread. They seem to range from a couple of years of reloading experience to decades of experience. Some of what you and others have claimed does not jive with what they've said except in limited cases (ie - 9mm and case feeding issues at or before the shellplate which won't be an issue for me as I won't be loading 9mm).

Aside from them there are plenty of other references across the WWW which also do not jive overall with the it's-beyond-comprehension- that-anyone-would-choose-the-LNL-over-a-650 level of animosity toward the LNL presses many here would have us believe.

Therefore, my point is either you don't believe them, or don't want to. Which would seem to be why you continue to insist I can't have an opinion worth noting without direct experience on a LNL, even though those multiple others have chimed in and there is ample evidence from other sources on the WWW supporting what they say, which some of my comments are derived from.

So no, I have not taken the whole thread for a loop. You simply misunderstood the point I made and went off on your own tangent repeating what's already been said by yourself and others many times already throughout this very thread. Again, Thank You, but clearly you have nothing else to offer in my thread aside from what you've already stated. Your points have been noted and were taken into consideration.:thumbsup:

[glock20c10mm]

The guy didn't get blasted for supporting the LNL. He got blasted for being an argumentative PITA. He asked for peoples' opinions, and then argued with them.
:rofl: You do realize you're now arguing from a standpoint that only the opinions of those who prefer Dillon presses matter to you, and the opinions of any others are not to be tolerated. Don't worry though, you didn't loose any credibility in my thread, as you never showed up with any to begin with. :animlol: And no, I have not only asked for opinions at this point of the thread. One might ask, except to be a cheering section for those who unequivocally preach "Blue", why are you here?

If I ask you what the best flavor for ice cream is, and you tell me vanilla, I can't very well argue with that can I?
For that to be your analogy you've either not read or ignored a minimum of three quarters of this thread.:shakehead: But hey, thanks for showing up and making your best attempt at raising a stink though!:thumbsup:

[glock20c10mm]

One has to wonder if glock20c10mm is a Troll that enjoys baiting people into confrontation, just for the sake of confrontation.

Moderator, please put this thread out of its misery.
I haven't intentionally baited anyone. By chance do you have anything intelligent to add to my thread, or are you just here because you hate the idea I'ld choose a LNL over a 650, and to show your support to those who also hate the idea I'ld choose a LNL over a 650?

[glock20c10mm]

I am only smarter for reading this thread - thanks to everyone that has participated.
:agree: Glad it's helped you! I believe many questions have been answered here that are practically never brought up, with lots of elaboration, toward helping anyone choose between almost any progressive press available.

[unclebob]

You need to go ahead and get the LNL. Shoot the same as you are now and us the savings you will save to buy the other things you want. As for not loading 9mm. Famous last words. 15 years ago if you would have told me that 9mm would be 95% of my reloading I would have told you that you were nuts. You never know maybe one day you might get into some type of competition and 9mm is the name of the game? I also said for 50 years that I never would own a Lee press. I now own one of them also. You think the LNL is a better press so just quite talking about it and go out and buy one. Nothing anyone else has to say about it is going to change your mind or are you going to change anyone else mind. So just do it.

[Boxerglocker]

Which would seem to be why you continue to insist I can't have an opinion worth noting without direct experience on a LNL, even though those multiple others have chimed in and there is ample evidence from other sources on the WWW supporting what they say, which some of my comments are derived from.

No one has said you can't have a opinion.... You keep trying to negate everyones else's and as Whiskey put it just want a to be a "Augumentative PITA" your opinion is obviously based soley only on second hand information.
You keep throwing the "you have no credibility with you comments" line around. I would just to like to know what first hand loading experience you have period. :upeyes: have you ever even loaded a round? You have derived all your comments based on everyone elses comments... yet as some point say everyone else is echoing each other and there is no credibility is some peoples opinions? :dunno: Again no one is saying not to buy a LNL, if it meets your expectations, go for it.

[WiskyT]

:rofl: You do realize you're now arguing from a standpoint that only the opinions of those who prefer Dillon presses matter to you, and the opinions of any others are not to be tolerated. Don't worry though, you didn't loose any credibility in my thread, as you never showed up with any to begin with. :animlol: And no, I have not only asked for opinions at this point of the thread. One might ask, except to be a cheering section for those who unequivocally preach "Blue", why are you here?


For that to be your analogy you've either not read or ignored a minimum of three quarters of this thread.:shakehead: But hey, thanks for showing up and making your best attempt at raising a stink though!:thumbsup:

I am far from a Blue cheerleader or supporter of Blue cheeleaders. Just ask Uncle Bob about that.

[jbrown13]

I haven't intentionally baited anyone. By chance do you have anything intelligent to add to my thread, or are you just here because you hate the idea I'ld choose a LNL over a 650, and to show your support to those who also hate the idea I'ld choose a LNL over a 650?

Actually I own and load on a Hornady LnL AP, and IMHO the priming system is poor and the case feeder is junk for loading 9mm. My point is that you have made your decision, and made it perfectly clear to everyone that has read the thread, so I can't understand why you persist in beating the drum. Seems pointless to me and just argumentative for the sake of confrontation. People prefer Chevys and other people prefer Fords. So what!

PS: I just checked my log and my opinion is based on having loaded 33,500 9mm and 11,279 38 Special cartridges on the LnL. How many have you loaded on your LnL?

[WiskyT]

Actually I own and load on a Hornady LnL AP, and IMHO the priming system is poor and the case feeder is junk for loading 9mm. My point is that you have made your decision, and made it perfectly clear to everyone that has read the thread, so I can't understand why you persist in beating the drum. Seems pointless to me and just argumentative for the sake of confrontation. People prefer Chevys and other people prefer Fords. So what!

PS: I just checked my log and my opinion is based on having loaded 33,500 9mm and 11,279 38 Special cartridges on the LnL. How many have you loaded on your LnL?

Do people in this thread express hatred towards you for getting a LNL?

[ursoboostd]

You think the LNL is a better press so just quite talking about it and go out and buy one. Nothing anyone else has to say about it is going to change your mind or are you going to change anyone else mind. So just do it.

My point is that you have made your decision, and made it perfectly clear to everyone that has read the thread, so I can't understand why you persist in beating the drum. Seems pointless to me and just argumentative for the sake of confrontation.

:cheerleader::agree:

[El_Ron1]

http://www.redrecondite.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/koolaid-average.png

[glock20c10mm]

You need to go ahead and get the LNL. Shoot the same as you are now and us the savings you will save to buy the other things you want. As for not loading 9mm. Famous last words. 15 years ago if you would have told me that 9mm would be 95% of my reloading I would have told you that you were nuts. You never know maybe one day you might get into some type of competition and 9mm is the name of the game? I also said for 50 years that I never would own a Lee press. I now own one of them also. You think the LNL is a better press so just quite talking about it and go out and buy one. Nothing anyone else has to say about it is going to change your mind or are you going to change anyone else mind. So just do it.
That's true, never say never.

[glock20c10mm]

No one has said you can't have a opinion.... You keep trying to negate everyones else's and as Whiskey put it just want a to be a "Augumentative PITA" your opinion is obviously based soley only on second hand information.
My opinion is not only based on second hand information. Partly yes, but then there are also facts attractive to me toward the LNL, which are also partly what I've based my decision on.

I would just to like to know what first hand loading experience you have period. :upeyes: have you ever even loaded a round?
How could you have been involved in this thread from the beginning and still ask that question?

You have derived all your comments based on everyone elses comments... yet as some point say everyone else is echoing each other and there is no credibility is some peoples opinions? :dunno:
There is credibility in everyone's opinion, whether the next guy agrees with that opinion or not. I only pointed out exaggeration and corrected what didn't apply (I'm not intending to load 9mm).

Again no one is saying not to buy a LNL, if it meets your expectations, go for it.
That's true to such an extent some are suggesting don't wait and buy it now.

[glock20c10mm]

I am far from a Blue cheerleader or supporter of Blue cheeleaders. Just ask Uncle Bob about that.
So stirring-the-pot without regard to favoring any press is all you're here for?

[glock20c10mm]

Actually I own and load on a Hornady LnL AP, and IMHO the priming system is poor and the case feeder is junk for loading 9mm. My point is that you have made your decision, and made it perfectly clear to everyone that has read the thread, so I can't understand why you persist in beating the drum. Seems pointless to me and just argumentative for the sake of confrontation. People prefer Chevys and other people prefer Fords. So what!

PS: I just checked my log and my opinion is based on having loaded 33,500 9mm and 11,279 38 Special cartridges on the LnL. How many have you loaded on your LnL?
So you're a moderator and I should consider myself warned?

You couldn't be familiar with much of this thread if you're asking how many I've loaded on my LNL. As for persisting in beating the drum, why are you telling me?

[jbrown13]

Do people in this thread express hatred towards you for getting a LNL?

Not that I'm aware of.

[glock20c10mm]

Well, unless someone out there has new information to bring to the table, I believe this one is pretty much wrapped up, though at the same time not suggesting it has to end either. Thanks to all who have participated, and cheers to those who have been helped by this thread in making a decision toward a new progressive reloading press, including myself.

[unclebob]

delete

[jbrown13]

So you're a moderator and I should consider myself warned?

You couldn't be familiar with much of this thread if you're asking how many I've loaded on my LNL. As for persisting in beating the drum, why are you telling me?

NO, I'm not a moderator. I was simply asking a moderator for mercy.

Do you not understand sarcasm?

IMHO the thread was asked and answered when you made your decision to purchase the Hornady, and any further comments in an effort to get others to agree with your decision (especially those had already advised you otherwise) were superfluous.

Thank you for post #338, it is truly a blessing, if in fact it is "wrapped up"..

[glock20c10mm]

NO, I'm not a moderator. I was simply asking a moderator for mercy.

Do you not understand sarcasm?

IMHO the thread was asked and answered when you made your decision to purchase the Hornady, and any further comments in an effort to get others to agree with your decision (especially those had already advised you otherwise) were superfluous.

Thank you for post #338, it is truly a blessing, if in fact it is "wrapped up"..
Why would you be asking a moderator for mercy when it's your choice and yours alone to enter this thread at all? Makes no sense unless you simply like making decisions for others.

Also, I never tried to get anyone to agree with my tentative decision, nor do I intend to. If that's what you're getting out of this thread then you haven't been paying close enough attention to all that's been posted. As to being superfluous, we'll have to agree to disagree on that one.

[fredj338]

Bushing bad? Why? I have had one (1) bushing loosen up on the powder measure. Cahnged to a different bushing. A twist of what? 33 degrees? and the bushing is out and the next bushing/die is in. Toolhead? Excellent, if you like spending that kind of money on something that has play in it and moves up and down with the ram.
.
This tells me you havent' that much exp w/ the 550B 0or 650. The tool head "slop" easily taken care of w/ a center punch & 3-4min of your time.
Once done, it never changes, never. The bushings can & do come loose, the can & do shear off if loose & you don't catch it. It also takes more than a 33deg turn, you have to take the old bushing out & reset the die that was in it into the new bushing. A tool head w/ all the dies permanently set, pull the whole thing out, put an etntire new tool head in, litteraly 20sec. It would take you longer to find the wrench to loosen a single bushing on a LNL. I like the LNL, just the 650 is a bit better for several reasons.
The powder COP thing is also over rated IMO. You should be looking into the case before seating the bullet, regardless of how many fail safes you have set up. The COP dies are good, but IMO, tend to make some reloaders lazy. While it certainly is possible to double charge on a 550B, somehow I have managed for some 150K+ rds over 25yrs & not had one, Hmmm.:whistling:

[glock20c10mm]

The bushings can & do come loose, the can & do shear off if loose & you don't catch it. It also takes more than a 33deg turn, you have to take the old bushing out & reset the die that was in it into the new bushing.
If you could explain a little further for someone with no experience......How are the LNL bushings secured in the LNL press? And, What exactly "shears" off?

[unclebob]

http://www.hornady.com/assets/files/manuals-current/metalic-reloading/LNL_AP.pdf
Pages 7 and 15

[Myke_Hart]

If you could explain a little further for someone with no experience......How are the LNL bushings secured in the LNL press? And, What exactly "shears" off?

This is what can happen. There were a rash of bad bushings that went out in some older presses. Hornady claims they were not heat treated correctly and have corrected the issue. If you have this problem the replacement bushings are free. They just screw in.

A pic I took of a bad bushing. Hornady sent me 3 to replace this one. :dunno:
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll264/myke_hart/reloading/IMG_2287.jpg

I did not have to readjust the die after the I replaced the bushing.

Here is a test I did to see how strong the inserts were.
This was the result of not screwing a die all the way in and putting my entire body wieght on the press handle of a single stage press (rockchucker).
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll264/myke_hart/reloading/IMG_2286.jpg
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll264/myke_hart/reloading/IMG_2278.jpg
It made a loud crack when the bushing finally gave way. That convinced me that Hornady was probably telling the truth about the bad batch.:embarassed:
Notice the lugs are unfazed!

Yes I abuse my presses.

[unclebob]

I knew you post those pictures before but could not find them. Thanks

[Myke_Hart]

I knew you post those pictures before but could not find them. Thanks

I could not find the thread either. It must have been removed or lost in the restore.:dunno:

[noylj]

Fred338 wrote: The bushings can & do come loose, the can & do shear off if loose & you don't catch it. It also takes more than a 33deg turn, you have to take the old bushing out & reset the die that was in it into the new bushing. A tool head w/ all the dies permanently set, pull the whole thing out, put an etntire new tool head in, litteraly 20sec. It would take you longer to find the wrench to loosen a single bushing on a LNL. I like the LNL, just the 650 is a bit better for several reasons.

Have you EVER used a L-N-L? I have used a 650 and the toolhead was loose and I never asked my friend if he fixed it. Despite my loading for over 25 years, he only listens to the "expert" in his club.
Yes, I have only loaded about 10K rounds on my L-N-L and had one (1) bushing work loose on the powder measure. Fixed it by finding a tighter bushing. In fact, this happened after I gave it to my son.
I have never had a cracked bushing, though I saw a picture of one once.
Yes, if seconds count, you can pull a toolhead and insert a new one faster than I can replace dies--by a few seconds. Who cares? Did your toolhead cost less than $20 (the cost for 5 bushings? Did your complete caliber conversion kit cost less than $50 (shell plate plus 5 bushings)?
What wrench is needed to remove a bushing? A twist of about 33 degrees is all that is needed to remove it. Makes it very easy to try different die combinations when your looking for a "better" set-up. Like my 1050s, Dillon presses are best used NOT for working up loads or trying new things, but for cranking out tens of thousands of identical rounds. Since my L-N-L could do that also, I didn't feel any loss not having a 650.
I now have to work up all loads on a 1050 and it is NOT any where near as easy or quick as with the L-N-L. I would LOVE to have Hornady or Lee bushing for use on one 1050 tool head for experimenting. If I tighten the lock ring to die and install it on my 1050, it is likely to work loose. I need to tighten the lock ring down with the ram down and a case in the die for alignment. I know this because I have had both sizing dies and expander dies work loose becasue the lock ring was locked to the die (so I would't loss the setting when I swap dies) and not the the tool head and the die.
We all like different things, just don't imply that my choices are wrong and yours are always right, particularly if all you know about a piece of equiment is hear-say and not hands-on.

[unclebob]

What wrench is needed to remove a bushing? A twist of about 33 degrees is all that is needed to remove it. Makes it very easy to try different die combinations when your looking for a "better" set-up. Like my 1050s, Dillon presses are best used NOT for working up loads or trying new things, but for cranking out tens of thousands of identical rounds. Since my L-N-L could do that also, I didn't feel any loss not having a 650.
I now have to work up all loads on a 1050 and it is NOT any where near as easy or quick as with the L-N-L. I would LOVE to have Hornady or Lee bushing for use on one 1050 tool head for experimenting. If I tighten the lock ring to die and install it on my 1050, it is likely to work loose. I need to tighten the lock ring down with the ram down and a case in the die for alignment. I know this because I have had both sizing dies and expander dies work loose becasue the lock ring was locked to the die (so I would't loss the setting when I swap dies) and not the the tool head and the die.
We all like different things, just don't imply that my choices are wrong and yours are always right, particularly if all you know about a piece of equiment is hear-say and not hands-on.
Don’t know why you keep bring up the Dillon 1050. This post has never been about a 1050. It is between a LNL and a 650. Yes if you have a bushing that breaks you need a wrench. Either to remove the die from the bushing or the bushing in the press. And then to install the new bushing in the press or tighten down the lock ring on the die.
I also cannot figure out why you want to keep changing dies around? And what is so hard about doing load development on a 650 or LNL?
I have LNL bushings on my Rock Chucker. The biggest thing I don’t like about the LNL is how to store the dies with the bushings installed. Don’t know about the Hornady die boxes but the dies do not fit back in the die boxes with the bushings installed.

[Boxerglocker]

I don't find the 1050 to be a equivalent comparable to either the LNL or the 650 either. The 1050 tool-head moves by design as oppose to either the LNL/650, monkey motion is completely different. I'd kill to have the primer swage station and primer seating in the down-stroke though.

The 650 tool-head by design is loose within the frame, but it won't ever come out if the pins are in place. You can tightened it down with a thread kit from Uniquetek. I have my 9mm tool-head threaded but to be honest the increase in OAL consistency is so slight it doesn't make much of a difference for the type of ammo I load.
Never had an issue with load development on a 650 either, it will even allow you to turn the index forward an through manually if you choose, which allows you to dump powder and redo a drop or reset a OAL, seat or crimp as your developing the load. Been using it quite a bit that way working on heavy bullet .223 loads lately.

[fredj338]

Have you EVER used a L-N-L? I have used a 650 and the toolhead was loose and I never asked my friend if he fixed it. Despite my loading for over 25 years, he only listens to the "expert" in his club.
Yes, I have only loaded about 10K rounds on my L-N-L and had one (1) bushing work loose on the powder measure. Fixed it by finding a tighter bushing. In fact, this happened after I gave it to my son.
.

Why yes I have, but only several 100 rds to play with one. If you do NOT use a wrnech to tighten the bushings, they can & do come loose, often. The minute "tool head slop" is easily taken out in the Dillon w/ a pin punch & a couple minutes of time, fixed for ever, nothing to come loose or break off like the LNL. JMO, I think the LNL bushing idea is pointless on a progressive when you can have the better idea of a tool head. Cost, yeah, it cost a bit more, but as you noted, the 650 is best run as a production machine. My 550B is the multi tasker because it has no case feeder & easier primer change. A LNL would serve just as well, but for a case fed production machine, te 650 is a slightly better design & that is not JMO.

[glock20c10mm]

http://www.hornady.com/assets/files/manuals-current/metalic-reloading/LNL_AP.pdf
Pages 7 and 15
There is no answer to either of my questions there.

[glock20c10mm]

This is what can happen. There were a rash of bad bushings that went out in some older presses. Hornady claims they were not heat treated correctly and have corrected the issue. If you have this problem the replacement bushings are free. They just screw in.

A pic I took of a bad bushing. Hornady sent me 3 to replace this one. :dunno:
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll264/myke_hart/reloading/IMG_2287.jpg

I did not have to readjust the die after the I replaced the bushing.

Here is a test I did to see how strong the inserts were.
This was the result of not screwing a die all the way in and putting my entire body wieght on the press handle of a single stage press (rockchucker).
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll264/myke_hart/reloading/IMG_2286.jpg
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll264/myke_hart/reloading/IMG_2278.jpg
It made a loud crack when the bushing finally gave way. That convinced me that Hornady was probably telling the truth about the bad batch.:embarassed:
Notice the lugs are unfazed!

Yes I abuse my presses.
That spells it out perfectly. Thanks! BTW, nice pics.

[glock20c10mm]

Why yes I have, but only several 100 rds to play with one. If you do NOT use a wrnech to tighten the bushings, they can & do come loose, often. The minute "tool head slop" is easily taken out in the Dillon w/ a pin punch & a couple minutes of time, fixed for ever, nothing to come loose or break off like the LNL. JMO, I think the LNL bushing idea is pointless on a progressive when you can have the better idea of a tool head. Cost, yeah, it cost a bit more, but as you noted, the 650 is best run as a production machine. My 550B is the multi tasker because it has no case feeder & easier primer change. A LNL would serve just as well, but for a case fed production machine, te 650 is a slightly better design & that is not JMO.
I was under the impression you actually owned a LNL at one time or another. I guess when you first spoke of experience with one I had taken it to mean you actually owned one, past or present. Guess I took what you said wrong.

[unclebob]

There is no answer to either of my questions there.

That’s because I could not find the pictures of what myke hart posted before. If you look on the diagram of the bushings. What pieces on there can break off? Same as parts on a gear. The teeth can break off.

[Myke_Hart]

I have complete faith in the bushings. I put them in everything!

My rockchucker with the LNL bushing.
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll264/myke_hart/reloading/IMG_1039.jpg

No adjustment needed on the dies if you use a spacer.:embarassed:

[Colorado4Wheel]

I wish the LnL bushings locked in place. Besides that and the storage issue the LnL bushings are fine. I wouldn't worry about them breaking. Hornady will replace it if it does. It's a simple part.

[fredj338]

I was under the impression you actually owned a LNL at one time or another. I guess when you first spoke of experience with one I had taken it to mean you actually owned one, past or present. Guess I took what you said wrong.

No, not owned, used. You don't have to own one to know how it works. You can load 200rds & figure out any machine's quirks pretty quickly. So my several 100rds exp loading on the LNL I feel gives me an honest opinion vs someone that has loaded, well, none.:dunno: You'll be happy w/ the LNL, why wouldn't you, you have no other reference. It's a good machine, never said it wasn't, just that the 650 is a bit better. You're too concerned about everyone elses opinion. Buy what YOU want. You did ask for opinions though.:dunno:

[Colorado4Wheel]

I loved my LnL so much I cried when it went away.


http://arch.413chan.net/single_tear_of_joy-(n1296792199979).jpg

[kcbrown]

No, not owned, used. You don't have to own one to know how it works. You can load 200rds & figure out any machine's quirks pretty quickly.


Except the Loadmaster. That one takes ... longer ... to figure out its quirks because it has so many. :faint:

:supergrin:

[fredj338]

Except the Loadmaster. That one takes ... longer ... to figure out its quirks because it has so many. :faint:

:supergrin:

True, but in 200rds, you'll know it has quirks to figure out!:whistling: If it won;t run out of the box, IMO, not worth the money to dick with it. I bought a progressive to reload ammo, not to tweek & fix it so it might load ammo. the only issues I have had w/ the 550B are keeping the primer slide clean. The 650, as long as everything is tight, it runs fine. If anything loosens up & tolerances start to go, then it will cause problems. Same for any piece of equip. w/ moving parts.

[El_Ron1]

This thread needs some:

http://aram.dcmembers.com/wp-content/uploads/images/chig_r.jpg

[kcbrown]

True, but in 200rds, you'll know it has quirks to figure out!:whistling:


Oh, I suspect you'll know that before the first round has been ejected... :whistling:



If it won;t run out of the box, IMO, not worth the money to dick with it. I bought a progressive to reload ammo, not to tweek & fix it so it might load ammo.


I agree that's how it should be for the first press one buys, for sure. After that, it just depends on how much money you want to spend and how much time and mechanical inclination you have.

I haven't seen any indication of lack of reliability once I've got things dialed in initially, at least with the Pro 1k. The Loadmaster is very different in that regard precisely because it primes on the ram upstroke and is highly dependent on everything working exactly as it should. Get a crimped case in there (or one of those Federal NT .45 cases with a small primer pocket when it should be a large primer pocket like God intended) and things can go badly in a hurry unless you catch it immediately and take the appropriate actions.



the only issues I have had w/ the 550B are keeping the primer slide clean. The 650, as long as everything is tight, it runs fine. If anything loosens up & tolerances start to go, then it will cause problems. Same for any piece of equip. w/ moving parts.

Yep, exactly. I find the Pro 1k is the same way once it's properly tuned. I don't think the Pro 1k is badly designed, I think a number of people get them with defective parts. Lee's quality control isn't the best and you have to be willing to deal with that. For quality control, it probably doesn't get any better than Dillon, and that makes the Dillon worth the money.

The Lees are really best suited for people who are willing to act as Lee's quality control department. :supergrin:

[noylj]

Fred wrote: Why yes I have, but only several 100 rds to play with one. If you do NOT use a wrnech to tighten the bushings, they can & do come loose, often

I have loaded about 10k rounds on a L-N-L and had one (1) bushing come loose. I had about 45 bushings for all my dies. One (1) bushing came loose and cause was a bad O-rings. You are very quick to condemn, when MY only thought is you don't know how to twist a bushing. I had problems with a Ford. All Fords have this problem and are junk. This is critical thinking?
I discuss the 1050 'cause that is what I use. I "thought" I made that clear in my posts. Have your fun little boys.

[Colorado4Wheel]

On my LnL the Powder bushing would come come loose over time. So I got the shim from Hornady. It kept it from loosening. But It now needed a wrench to take off. Because there are no flats on the bushing you had to use the die to take the bushing off the press. 1/2 the time you did that you would end up with the die coming loose on the bushing. That was my biggest issue with the bushing.

[fredj338]

Fred wrote: Why yes I have, but only several 100 rds to play with one. If you do NOT use a wrnech to tighten the bushings, they can & do come loose, often

I have loaded about 10k rounds on a L-N-L and had one (1) bushing come loose. I had about 45 bushings for all my dies. One (1) bushing came loose and cause was a bad O-rings. You are very quick to condemn, when MY only thought is you don't know how to twist a bushing. I had problems with a Ford. All Fords have this problem and are junk. This is critical thinking?
I discuss the 1050 'cause that is what I use. I "thought" I made that clear in my posts. Have your fun little boys.

And you my friend are quick to condem or insult. I NEVER SAID THE LNL WAS JUNK! TO say the LNL is NOT w/o problems though is being a bit of an osterich. I said it was a good press, it has issues though, the bushings are an issue IMO, based on what I have seen & been told by extensive users of the LNL.
So you've had only one bushing in 10K rds fail, BFD. The tool head on my 650 can NOT come loose under any circumstance. My friend has easily loaded some 25Krds in the last 18m & has had more than one bushing shear & is constantly tightening bushings as he loads, they don't stay tight on his machine, much like Steve's experience. The priming arm is a weak link as well. Maybe he has a LNL that isn't quite right, but then again, that is my point & everyone else that says the 650 is a bit better machine. It's an objective statement, not an emotional one. If you like your machine great, if you don't like the 650, great, at least understand how they work, I get the feeling you don't.:dunno:

[glock20c10mm]

No, not owned, used. You don't have to own one to know how it works. You can load 200rds & figure out any machine's quirks pretty quickly. So my several 100rds exp loading on the LNL I feel gives me an honest opinion vs someone that has loaded, well, none.:dunno: You'll be happy w/ the LNL, why wouldn't you, you have no other reference. It's a good machine, never said it wasn't, just that the 650 is a bit better. You're too concerned about everyone elses opinion. Buy what YOU want. You did ask for opinions though.:dunno:
Thanks fredj338 :thumbsup:

[glock20c10mm]

The only issues I have had w/ the 550B are keeping the primer slide clean.
It keeping it clean as simple as compressed air aimed at the appropriate area, or are we talking about actually scrubbing it up with a brush or something?

[unclebob]

It keeping it clean as simple as compressed air aimed at the appropriate area, or are we talking about actually scrubbing it up with a brush or something?

http://www.dillonhelp.com/manuals/english/Dillon-RL550B-Manual-May-2007.pdf


Page 15

[n2extrm]

It keeping it clean as simple as compressed air aimed at the appropriate area, or are we talking about actually scrubbing it up with a brush or something?

LIGHTLY blowing it off will help a great deal. Many use a can of the compressed air for computers. I used a air line from the compressor with the line pressure reduced to around 30 psi.

However you still need to take it down from time to time and clean the slide with a scotch bright pad or similar. Some people will also rub a pencil on it to lube the slide, but I never did this. This was the only part of the 550 I did not like or should I say I got tired of. Add this to the fact that I wanted a higher production rate and a case feeder so I bought a 650.

[Colorado4Wheel]

I used to wipe mine with a rag before every session. Takes literally 10 secs at the most. When it hangs up the first time, I disassemble it and clean it with Hoppes or similiar. Takes a couple minutes. Some claim 5K rounds between cleaning. I never really paid attention as it's just not a big deal. If you don't wipe with a rag before loading it will require cleaning more often. I do the same thing to my 650 and LnL. They just get wiped in different areas. I don't like letting crap build up. Some people (JACK) never oil or clean anything. I think his 550 hadn't been cleaned or lubed in 15 years. We got it back to health with a little TLC.

[unclebob]

Can air does wonders on keeping the press clean. I used powder graphite on the slide when I had it and I use powdered graphite on the powder measure. Blue paper shop towels are always on the reloading bench for wiping the press down, cleaning dies, clean guns and wiping off the reloading bench top.

[GioaJack]

If it needs to be cleaned or lubricated it means it was designed poorly. (Well, there's one thing that may need to be lubricated as it gets older but that's a different forum.)

On a different note, the only bushing I've ever found to turn during operation is the powder measure bushing. That problem is so well know that most people call Hornady before their press arrives and have the shim sitting there when setting up the press. Do that and you'll never even know that you had a potential problem.

Except for purposely removing them I've never had any other bushing turn, in any caliber.


Jack

[unclebob]

If it needs to be cleaned or lubricated it means it was designed poorly. (Well, there's one thing that may need to be lubricated as it gets older but that's a different forum.)

On a different note, the only bushing I've ever found to turn during operation is the powder measure bushing. That problem is so well know that most people call Hornady before their press arrives and have the shim sitting there when setting up the press. Do that and you'll never even know that you had a potential problem.

Except for purposely removing them I've never had any other bushing turn, in any caliber.


Jack
Now if you only had one LNL and no other press. And you changed dies out a lot then you might have had problems. Not saying you would have. Just saying you could have.

[GioaJack]

You might be right Bob, I guess anything can happen but between the two presses I load .38/357, .380. 41 mag and two profiles of .45's.

I've never loaded a 9 on either one of them and it seems that's where the most problems stem from... at least that seems to be the main caliber of conversation. Until I bought the 9mm STI I didn't shoot much 9 except for my BHP and I loaded them on the Square Deal. Now I load a bunch of them on the SD and the 1050.

I don't really get involved much in this thread since it tends to be geared toward speed of machines and that's really not a concern for me. Little Stevie will tell ya, doesn't matter what machine I use, SD, 550, LNL's or 1050's, I load 300 rounds an hour. The faster machines just make it easier on my physically.

If I had a Camdex I'd still load 300 an hour.


Jack

[Colorado4Wheel]

You might be right Bob, I guess anything can happen but between the two presses I load .38/357, .380. 41 mag and two profiles of .45's.

I've never loaded a 9 on either one of them and it seems that's where the most problems stem from... at least that seems to be the main caliber of conversation. Until I bought the 9mm STI I didn't shoot much 9 except for my BHP and I loaded them on the Square Deal. Now I load a bunch of them on the SD and the 1050.

I don't really get involved much in this thread since it tends to be geared toward speed of machines and that's really not a concern for me. Little Stevie will tell ya, doesn't matter what machine I use, SD, 550, LNL's or 1050's, I load 300 rounds an hour. The faster machines just make it easier on my physically.

If I had a Camdex I'd still load 300 an hour.


Jack

Don't you love how I finally sucked Jack into this thread.

[fredj338]

It keeping it clean as simple as compressed air aimed at the appropriate area, or are we talking about actually scrubbing it up with a brush or something?
As noted, cleaning the slide every 100 primers goes a long way to keeping things running. Canned air, old tooth brush, rag, just get the crap off the slide that falls from decapping & keep it out of the way, things run along fine for 1000rds or so, then taking it apart to clean it is a good idea. I use steel wool, works fine. DIllon has changed the design many times trying to help channel the depriming crud away from the slide, but the best bet is air or brush.

[Colorado4Wheel]

I didn't clean mine every 100 rds. I would normally run 300 rds during a session. I would go a month or so between dissemble when I was loading 3K or so a month.

[glock20c10mm]

I don't really get involved much in this thread since it tends to be geared toward speed of machines and that's really not a concern for me. Little Stevie will tell ya, doesn't matter what machine I use, SD, 550, LNL's or 1050's, I load 300 rounds an hour. The faster machines just make it easier on my physically.

If I had a Camdex I'd still load 300 an hour.


Jack
That's a good point from the stand point of the speed point regarding a purchasing point or not.:supergrin:

I don't see myself wanting to crank out rounds as fast as possible just for the sake of cranking them out as fast as possible. Some have mentioned how nice it is to seriously crank out munitions when needed for a match or something on short notice. So 5 minutes and 600 pulls of the handle later you're off and running. If that works for some, great. But for me, well, I don't expect it's the way I'ld roll.

Speed by itself doesn't necessarily equal efficiency over the long haul. When choosing between a handful of various manufacturers offerings, unless you personally feel you need the fastest operating unit available, fastest operating in and of itself may not be a selling point at all. And from there all other features/benefits can be weighed on their own, as required by each individual for themselves.

[Colorado4Wheel]

I don't see myself wanting to crank out rounds as fast as possible just for the sake of cranking them out as fast as possible. Some have mentioned how nice it is to seriously crank out munitions when needed for a match or something on short notice. So 5 minutes and 600 pulls of the handle later you're off and running. If that works for some, great. But for me, well, I don't expect it's the way I'ld roll.

Speed by itself doesn't necessarily equal efficiency over the long haul. When choosing between a handful of various manufacturers offerings, unless you personally feel you need the fastest operating unit available, fastest operating in and of itself may not be a selling point at all. And from there all other features/benefits can be weighed on their own, as required by each individual for themselves.

:faint::dunno:
This from a guy who just has to have the bullet feeder and matching press combo. Despite not a single person saying that is a good idea.:rofl:

[unclebob]

Speed is not the main reason I own a 650. Ease of operation and reliability are. But with that speed comes with it. Yes the Hornady LNL press has some good features that I like. But many more that I do not like. When you compare the LNL and a 650 with case feeder.

[Colorado4Wheel]

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=133812&pid=1508903&st=0&#entry1508903

Another LnL user with the same problems as I had.

[Boxerglocker]

Speed is not the main reason I own a 650. Ease of operation and reliability are. But with that speed comes with it. Yes the Hornady LNL press has some good features that I like. But many more that I do not like. When you compare the LNL and a 650 with case feeder.

Lot's of people seem to miss this when the this debate comes up. :dunno:

Not hard to understand... In order to get the speed you need the reliability, if the speed comes naturally by design... obviously you reliability rate is high.

[n2extrm]

Lot's of people seen to miss this when the this debate comes up. :dunno:

Not hard to understand... In order to get the speed you need the reliability, if the speed comes naturally by design... obviously you reliability rate is high.


I agree Boxer. The time I lost to cleaning that slide was minimal, but it buged me. I would need to crank out a few hundred rounds for a match or to get out and practice, bang the primer slide would hang up. Usualy right after I filled the magazine too! Now I know it is my fault I should have cleaned it before I started, but I sometimes just don't have the time to think about it.

[glock20c10mm]

:faint:
This from a guy who just has to have the bullet feeder and matching press combo. Despite not a single person saying that is a good idea.
You are equating the want for bullet and case feeders to equal the want for more speed, but your reasoning isn't everyone elses reasoning.

Remember Myke_Hart's post from almost exactly 4 weeks ago today?

I have been running with two hornady LNL presses with case feeders for a at least 3 years now. I have also used others.

Each brand and model of press has its own idiosyncrasies, but once you figure them out you can work around them.

My Issues with my presses,
I will say 9mm is the most problem-matic on the LNL for me. Its the human power it takes to resize them that I will complain about. I think it is my lee die is tight or it is just that the 9mm is not a straight case. I pre resize them on a single stage and then run that brass thru all stages of the LNL and everything works without muscle. Hornady did have issues with the shell plates and 9mm. A little sanding is in order on the sharp edges and now I no longer have shell plate eject and tip issues.

I can run 9mm though without the pre-resize but I feel the muscle needed just ruins my delicate bowling arm. :supergrin: I see this as a problem with my tight resizing die and not actually with the press.

I do have the accasional falling off the brass feeder plate but it only happens once or twice in 200 to a 1000 so I don't really feel its a problem. Taller the case the more it seems to happens. This I feel this is just one of those idiosyncrasies.

As for the brass feeding backwards in the hopper, I have only had that issue with .32 ammo. It is tiny and weighs nothing and has a rim. I don't load it that often so don't see it as a problem. Done nothing to try to fix it.

My units prime perfect, below level. I would like to see a hair less pressure needed to prime but that is just the LNL. I do not see this as a problem at all and would say near perfect. I would like to see a hardened screw in insert on the press body to keep the small dent/divot from forming from the primer punch. It does not seem to hurt anything so I haven't done anything about it.

I am still testing the bullet feeder so I have nothing to comment except that it is working way better than the RCBS, which did not work at all for me.

My proof of ownership.
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll264/myke_hart/reloading/IMG_5644.jpg

Proof of ownership on the bullet feeder.
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll264/myke_hart/reloading/IMG_2460.jpg

Proof of previously owning a RCBS bullet feeder
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll264/myke_hart/reloading/IMG_1739.jpg

There are all kinds of tweeks you can do to these presses, but for multi caliber machine I don't think there is anything better out there. If you are talking single caliber, yes, a 1050 is a better way to go. The 650 does some things better yes, but so does the LNL, so I think they even out.

If Myke_Hart isn't a single person, then what are you saying he is? And not to burst your bubble, but he claims primers seat below flush with all of his LNL APs.

[unclebob]

I think what Steve and everyone else is saying. If you want to get the LNL get the LNL. Hold off on the Case feeder and bullet feeder until you learn what you are doing and what is going on. Learn to walk before you run.
No not everyone that owns a LNL have primer issues. But he was pointing out another one that does.

[Colorado4Wheel]

You are equating the want for bullet and case feeders to equal the want for more speed, but your reasoning isn't everyone elses reasoning.

Remember Myke_Hart's post from almost exactly 4 weeks ago today?



If Myke_Hart isn't a single person, then what are you saying he is? And not to burst your bubble, but he claims primers seat below flush with all of his LNL APs.

LoL. Yeah, thats exactly what I said.:upeyes:

[glock20c10mm]

LoL. Yeah, thats exactly what I said.:upeyes:
So I put up a post regarding speed which you quoted specifically and questioned my need for a bullet feeder which you say all others are against me doing anyway, and now you're saying that's not the meaning you intended?

Regardless what you said, what did you mean then?

[Colorado4Wheel]

It's not that complicated.

[Boxerglocker]

It's not that complicated.

Nope not at all.... the only real reason that one would opt for adding a case feeder is increased production, particularly on a press that the manufacturer has made it a key selling point of it's flexability to do so and uses that along with marginal price savings to compare it to the competition thats been on the market for a significantly longer period.
Adding a bullet feeder again main reason to add one is increasing automation thus increased production (unless of course you only have one arm then it essentially becomes a necessity).
Other than that it's just the point that you want it... have the money to burn, "Bling Factor" or bragging rights. I wouldn't have given up the SDB I had and a cut my firearm collection down one handgun if I didn't see the need for the increased production and got a XL650 with casefeeder. Sure it ave me more flexibility now that I load .223 as well but at the time that I was debating it. That wasn't really an issue as whatever I chose would have given me that option as well.

[jbrown13]

This thread has to have passed, or is rapidly approaching, the all-time record for most posts, with the possible exception of the "post pictures of your toys" threads. This horse is not only dead, he has been turned into glue.

[Hoser]

Speed by itself doesn't necessarily equal efficiency over the long haul. When choosing between a handful of various manufacturers offerings, unless you personally feel you need the fastest operating unit available, fastest operating in and of itself may not be a selling point at all. And from there all other features/benefits can be weighed on their own, as required by each individual for themselves.

I have precious few brain cells and IQ points to play with. This thread is taking a toll on both.

http://techrights.org/files/trolltracker/20080528155008/troll.gif

[beancounter81]

Wow! In the time that this thread has been running I have:
1) decided to finally make the leap into reloading
2) researched presses and made a decision
3) placed order
4) received order
5) set up press & adjusted dies
6) worked up loads
7) shot test loads without blowing anything up
8) loaded several hundred rounds for next range trip.

If anybody cares, I decided on a Dillon 550b with biological case feeder (my right hand) and biological bullet feeder (left hand). Everything has worked flawlessly so far except for the biological components.

[Colorado4Wheel]

Good for you. Glad to hear it.

[Myke_Hart]

LoL. Yeah, thats exactly what I said.:upeyes:

C4W what brand primers were you using in the LNL?

[Myke_Hart]

You are equating the want for bullet and case feeders to equal the want for more speed, but your reasoning isn't everyone elses reasoning.

Remember Myke_Hart's post from almost exactly 4 weeks ago today?



If Myke_Hart isn't a single person, then what are you saying he is? And not to burst your bubble, but he claims primers seat below flush with all of his LNL APs.

That's OK, My wife doesn't think I'm human either. :rofl:

[Myke_Hart]

I think what Steve and everyone else is saying. If you want to get the LNL get the LNL. Hold off on the Case feeder and bullet feeder until you learn what you are doing and what is going on. Learn to walk before you run.
No not everyone that owns a LNL have primer issues. But he was pointing out another one that does.

I agree with this statement.

The case and bullet feeder add a ton of press complexities. Even if you buy the combo, start with the press alone to get a feel for it, then add the options.

[Colorado4Wheel]

c4w what brand primers were you using in the lnl?

cci.....

[Colorado4Wheel]

I agree with this statement.

The case and bullet feeder add a ton of press complexities. Even if you buy the combo, start with the press alone to get a feel for it, then add the options.


So I think that is officially everyone.

.
.
.
.

I "checked out" on this thread several days back. I just don't see Glock20c10mm as serious about this stuff at all. It's more a game to him I think. I can't for the life of me think why a serious shooter and reloader would decide.

1) I want to reload
2) I am going to wait till I can buy WAY more equipment then I need.
3) In the meantime I am going to continue to waste my money buying factory 10mm.

If your shooting 10mm then your spending some $ doing it. Waiting is the last thing you do. If your barely shooting at all (not spending a lot) then what in the world do you need a LnL/Bullet/Casefeeder combo for.

Only thing that makes any sense is this is just some trophy to stick in the corner and say "Look how Pretty"

He will I am sure have some snappy comeback. But I am guessing most people are thinking pretty much what I am thinking. Maybe I am wrong. It really doesn't matter.

Good luck with your LnL if you ever get one.

[unclebob]

So I think that is officially everyone.

.
.
.
.

I "checked out" on this thread several days back. I just don't see Glock20c10mm as serious about this stuff at all. It's more a game to him I think. I can't for the life of me think why a serious shooter and reloader would decide.

1) I want to reload
2) I am going to wait till I can buy WAY more equipment then I need.
3) In the meantime I am going to continue to waste my money buying factory 10mm.

If your shooting 10mm then your spending some $ doing it. Waiting is the last thing you do. If your barely shooting at all (not spending a lot) then what in the world do you need a LnL/Bullet/Casefeeder combo for.

Only thing that makes any sense is this is just some trophy to stick in the corner and say "Look how Pretty"

He will I am sure have some snappy comeback. But I am guessing most people are thinking pretty much what I am thinking. Maybe I am wrong. It really doesn't matter.

Good luck with your LnL if you ever get one.

:agree:

[WiskyT]

So I think that is officially everyone.

.
.
.
.

I "checked out" on this thread several days back. I just don't see Glock20c10mm as serious about this stuff at all. It's more a game to him I think. I can't for the life of me think why a serious shooter and reloader would decide.

1) I want to reload
2) I am going to wait till I can buy WAY more equipment then I need.
3) In the meantime I am going to continue to waste my money buying factory 10mm.

If your shooting 10mm then your spending some $ doing it. Waiting is the last thing you do. If your barely shooting at all (not spending a lot) then what in the world do you need a LnL/Bullet/Casefeeder combo for.

Only thing that makes any sense is this is just some trophy to stick in the corner and say "Look how Pretty"

He will I am sure have some snappy comeback. But I am guessing most people are thinking pretty much what I am thinking. Maybe I am wrong. It really doesn't matter.

Good luck with your LnL if you ever get one.

It took him a while, but he got it.

"The boys got a mind like a steel trap, always full of mice"-Foghorn Leghorn

[Colorado4Wheel]

It's like a car wreck that you just watch over and over and over.

Best thing about it is that someone else got a 550 and started reloading already.

[WiskyT]

It's like a car wreck that you just watch over and over and over.

Best thing about it is that someone else got a 550 and started reloading already.

I don't even own a 10mm, but I have half a mind to take the lone 10mm case I have and stuff a bullet and some Unique in it. I could do it during a commercial.

[wrx04]

I havent read through the whole thread, but my first press was a 550b and has been awesome. I bought it after reading it was the best first progressive on brianenos.com. If i could do it again, i would have bought the 650 with the case feeder, but i will keep the 550 for the rest of my life. I will add a 650 soon.

[kcbrown]

Wow! In the time that this thread has been running I have:
1) decided to finally make the leap into reloading
2) researched presses and made a decision
3) placed order
4) received order
5) set up press & adjusted dies
6) worked up loads
7) shot test loads without blowing anything up
8) loaded several hundred rounds for next range trip.

If anybody cares, I decided on a Dillon 550b with biological case feeder (my right hand) and biological bullet feeder (left hand). Everything has worked flawlessly so far except for the biological components.

Well, you got a Dillon and that gets you their "no BS" lifetime warranty. So you should try calling them to see if you can get your defective biological components replaced.

:supergrin:

[beancounter81]

Well, you got a Dillon and that gets you their "no BS" lifetime warranty. So you should try calling them to see if you can get your defective biological components replaced.

:supergrin:

A good thought, but the biological components are non-Dillon :crying:and my parents didn't opt for the lifetime warranty 5+ decades ago. :shocked:

On a brighter note, the biological components seem to be getting their timing coordinated a little better :whistling:

[ursoboostd]

It's like a car wreck that you just watch over and over and over.


Exactly how I feel.

[GioaJack]

It's like a car wreck that you just watch over and over and over.

Best thing about it is that someone else got a 550 and started reloading already.


A typical flatlander non-imaginative analogy. This thread is nothing like a car wreck, it's like marriage... you get screwed constantly but there's no sex involved.

By all standards this thread should end but now Hornady has announced that they will now include a Lee FCD standard with every LNL thus creating the closest thing to a perfect reloading press since the beginning of mankind.

I'm going back to sleep.


Jack

[jbrown13]

By all standards this thread should end but now Hornady has announced that they will now include a Lee FCD standard with every LNL thus creating the closest thing to a perfect reloading press since the beginning of mankind.

The most creative post I've ever read.

[unclebob]

The most creative post I've ever read.

You must not have read Richard Lee? Modern Reloading. Other than Lee equipment he believes everything else is inferior to Lee equipment. If you use anything else you will blow yourself up and take out half of your block with you. So there you go from an expert in reloading. LNL is an inferior press.:shocked:

[jbrown13]

You must not have read Richard Lee? Modern Reloading. Other than Lee equipment he believes everything else is inferior to Lee equipment. If you use anything else you will blow yourself up and take out half of your block with you. So there you go from an expert in reloading. LNL is an inferior press.:shocked:

I think I might have failed to communicate in that post. Jack's posts are the most entertaining posts on any forum I read. He has to have the quickest and most devious mind dealt to man. A real Snidely Whiplash type mind. He keeps this forum fun, IMHO.

[ursoboostd]

I think I might have failed to communicate in that post. Jack's posts are the most entertaining posts on any forum I read. He has to have the quickest and most devious mind dealt to man. A real Snidely Whiplash type mind. He keeps this forum fun, IMHO.

I very seriously doubt anybody would disagree with ya there.

[Colorado4Wheel]

I don't think men can communicate clearly.

[jbrown13]

I don't think men can communicate clearly.

I obviously can't, and my wife will agree with you. And that's after 67 years of trying (not with my wife, just pumping air).

[GioaJack]

ISP is still down, pulled out the iPhone.

I don't care what you guys say, I'm not loaning you money and you're not going to be in my will... well, if you have a good looking, single female relative, then maybe the will thing.


Jack

[IndyGunFreak]

ISP is still down, pulled out the iPhone.

I don't care what you guys say, I'm not loaning you money and you're not going to be in my will... well, if you have a good looking, single female relative, then maybe the will thing.


Jack

Sorry to hear about the ISP problems, I imagine you're sitting at home going crazy... Hopefully you're not out of primers and lead.

IGF

[DoctaGlockta]

I have nothing important to add really. I was just feeling left out.

:wavey:

[glock20c10mm]

I don't think men can communicate clearly.
A few questions and 418 posts later...........we're not doing too bad.:supergrin:

:wavey:

[RustyFN]

I had to stop reading at page 9. The only thing I have to say to somebody who has never reloaded and is going to start on a progressive with a case feeder and bullet feeder is good luck.

[F106 Fan]

You bumped this zombie thread, the least you could do is read it all. Consider it penance.

Richard

[RustyFN]

You bumped this zombie thread, the least you could do is read it all. Consider it penance.

Richard

Sorry Richard but by page 9 my head hurt and I was starting to get crosseyed.:supergrin:

[F106 Fan]

Sorry Richard but by page 9 my head hurt and I was starting to get crosseyed.:supergrin:

Heck, I was part of it and even I didn't read it all!
Just an amazing number of posts.

Richard

[Myke_Hart]

glock20c10mm did you get your press yet?

It's been 8 months! :supergrin:

Mine are still priming well C4W. :supergrin:

I did find that the LNL does not like the LR Tula primers at ALL. Well, then again I don't think any press would like them.
Was using them in 500 magnum.

They take all the muscle I have to hand prime them with a Universal RCBS hand primer. I think they are made of Adamantium or something. I might use my 20ton shop press to seat them from now on. A buddy of mine let me try 100 of them. Wow, they are a workout! I do not recommend them in your progressives. :wavey:

My new Tula primer seater!
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll264/myke_hart/reloading/20tonshoppress.jpg