Is a pistol the most useful SHTF weapon? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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glock39
07-23-2011, 09:17
I was reading a post on another website (which, alas, I forgot to bookmark). Anyway, the gentleman had gone through hurricane Andrew. Power and phones were out for 6 weeks, police patrols were few and far between. He had a long gun and a Glock 19. Although he carried the long gun around his property, he found that "95% of the time, it wound up being left in his truck, or leaned up against a tree" (as he was busy working at cleaning up the mess, dealing with no electricity and generally needing both hands free). The Glock was carried 100% of the time. When he went to town, he did not carry the long gun, as walking around with a rifle tended to upset people. Again, the concealed Glock was carried all the time.

So, the situations where you would actually be carrying a long gun are few and specific. They also assume some advance warning, as long guns are more difficult to carry around everywhere you go. Carrying a long gun off of your own property would require very specific circumstances. A long gun is the weapon of choice for home defense. But for a SHTF situation would you actually be better off with a pistol? Or perhaps a full-size, easy to shoot pistol (if you normally carry a pocket pistol)? While rifles are what people choose to fight with, the lowly pistol is what you're likely to actually have at hand when you suddenly need it.


Note - There are certain social situations, such as riots or hurricanes, where just being visibly armed may be it's own protection. I've always thought that one of the side benefits of a rifle or shotgun is that carrying one serves as an indicator that you do not wish to be robbed, looted or lynched. However, you could get an external holster (even an old WWII web belt and flap holster) that could be just belted on over whatever you're wearing. This serves the same function, but you could quickly transfer the pistol to your concealed holster whenever you wished to present a lower profile.

quake
07-23-2011, 09:42
Is a pistol the most useful SHTF weapon?

I'd say yes, or at least that they're the most versatile defensive weapon.

Unistat
07-23-2011, 09:48
I know FerFAL is a big fan of pistols as a STHF defensive weapon. It is much better for the "unnoticed greyman" style.

Jeepnik
07-23-2011, 10:30
Nope. Your brain is.

glock39
07-23-2011, 11:06
Nope. Your brain is.

I can't argue with that. Except, of course, for the number of sheeple walking around with "unloaded" weapons. :whistling:

G29Reload
07-23-2011, 11:45
It is perfect for preventing anything if carried openly. :supergrin:

Maine1
07-23-2011, 12:35
I have gone from rifle to pistol for EDC/SHTF/EOTWAWKI . its with me 24-7, where the rifle did get left behind sometimes.

Bushflyr
07-23-2011, 12:57
I'd say yes.

The problem arises with the definition of SHTF. I, personally, think of Andrew, Katrina, or the LA riots as SHTF. Basically a temporary breakdown of law and order coupled with some inconveniences like flooding, mayhem, or power outage. Mad Max stuff is TEOTWAWKI. Many people can only think of prepping in terms of black and white, normal everyday go to the market and Mad Max, with nothing in between. For them SHTF is Mad Max.

Spiffums
07-23-2011, 13:25
Your handgun by virtue of being small and easy to carry is always with you. It will allow you fight your way back to the house or tree to get your long gun.

Catshooter
07-23-2011, 13:46
Unqualified yes. Whether the S has HTF or just day to day living. It is first, foremost and should always be there for you.

Unless of course your crystal ball is way better than mine, mine has never forewarned me that trouble was coming. I need to get my money back.


Cat

CitizenOfDreams
07-23-2011, 14:25
A pistol in the hand is better than two rifles in the bush.

Big Bird
07-23-2011, 14:38
The pistol's only redeeming quality is its convenience. Otherwise, a long arm beats the crap out of a handgun in any situation where you might actually have to do some shooting.

j-glock22
07-23-2011, 14:44
FerFal.blogspot.com search blogs regarding defense weapons and pistols vs. long guns and the realities of the situations that he has and continues to live in. Very insightful and iseful info for such a thread as this.

Catshooter
07-23-2011, 14:45
But Big Bird, that convenience is huge. Don't sell it short.


Cat

1 old 0311
07-23-2011, 15:15
I know FerFAL is a big fan of pistols as a STHF defensive weapon. It is much better for the "unnoticed greyman" style.


Really. Unlike 99.9% of the people here he LIVES in a SHTF situation.

MadMonkey
07-23-2011, 15:21
I can't argue with that. Except, of course, for the number of sheeple walking around with "unloaded" weapons. :whistling:

Most of my friends carry Condition 3 :supergrin:

UneasyRider
07-23-2011, 17:40
Yes, G23.

rhino673
07-23-2011, 17:45
A pistol in the hand is better than two rifles in the bush.

Very true.

fourdeuce2
07-24-2011, 00:03
Really. Unlike 99.9% of the people here he LIVES in a SHTF situation.

Yes. Too bad he thinks HIS situation applies to ANY survival situation.:rofl:

Carrying a rifle around all the time is a pain in the ass(ask any soldier), but they are still required to do it. There's a reason for that. If you need a firearm, a rifle is much better(more effective at getting the job done) in most cases than a handgun. Having to put up with the hassle is a small price to pay for the huge gain in efficiency.

Blast
07-24-2011, 00:17
Long gun is best in SHTF. However, depending on circumstances, a high powered magnum revolver might be a good option.

UneasyRider
07-24-2011, 06:11
This thread is funny, I can see it now...

As Ted walked across the parking lot heading to the doors people were looking at him a bit strangely and seemed to physically avoiding him. Yes they were giving Ted a lot of extra space today. When Ted got to the door the Walmart greeter said "Good morning, did you want to return that rifle? Let me take carry it over to customer service, it's store policy".
"No," Ted said "It's my rifle and I just like to carry it around with me, you know since the SHTF".


or maybe when he goes to work:

Ted gets out of his BMW and heads for the office. Inside the building people have already noticed him. "Hey, here comes Ted and he's got a rifle," Bill yells out.
"I knew it," Betty says, "I knew it would be him."
People on the ground floor start running for the rear exit, upstairs where they have seen Ted too there is a mad scramble to get down the stairs too safety. Old Mrs. Goodheart has fallen and people are stepping on her in their attemp to flee Ted. When Ted reaches the front doors and enters the building he sees the commotion and yells "What's happening? Is it EMP? A gas attack? Nukes?"

Unistat
07-24-2011, 07:03
Well the pistol on my waist is to get me to the rifle in my trunk. Of course if I can get the rifle trunk, could I just drive away? Maybe, maybe not. I like to have a Plan B (and C, D, E, R37, Delta Blue, etc.) Of course most of the time we just make it up as we go along.

eracer
07-24-2011, 07:11
The most useful SHTF weapon is a shotgun.

off road
07-24-2011, 07:17
There will be times when you will definitely want to be completely concealed, such as in a natural disaster where the National Guard and/or LEO's worried about looting, will be running around. There will be other times of course, where being openly armed (handgun or shotgun/rifle) will be a very useful deterent.

Aceman
07-24-2011, 11:31
There is NO SUCH THING as the single best gun. Every situation is different.

IF my stocks/supplies hold out - An SG is best. I won't be going ANYWHERE so I'm all about the stopping power.

IF I have to go out and about, AND there is some semblance of order, the PISTOL is best for the low key factor.

IF it is wild west, I get to be a fan of the AK pretty quick.

IF I need to hunt, the SG looks pretty good pretty quickly again.

Unless I am in Montana, in which case BOLT action with glass becomes very appealing.

I still say - over all: One pistol and one long gun per adult shooter. I say a 12g and a pistol will get you farther longer than most things, most of the time.

If I can have ONLY one - I will be in trouble sooner or later.

TangoFoxtrot
07-24-2011, 12:18
Any weapon is useless unless ..#1- You are properly trained to use it...and.....#2- You have the stones to use it!

lawman800
07-24-2011, 21:57
The pistol is carried for convenience and it can be with you 100% of the time no matter what you are doing. You don't have that with a long arm. Depending on what is the SHTF situation, you can have times where you just might be walking around with a long arm at the low ready or slung over your shoulder.

When there is a long term disruption to social order and you have to protect what's yours, it can be foreseeable that you would form up into bands where you walk around the neighborhood armed with what you got to prevent looting and maintain order until government comes back to resume service.

However, absent that, most of the time, people will still behave somewhat civilized and you just need the handgun to prevent the occasional loss of order or opportunistic bottom feeder from preying on you.

Me? I open carry a 10mm. It prevents everything and what I can't prevent, I instantly vaporize with one precise and strategic 10mm low altitude detonation.

UtahIrishman
07-24-2011, 22:17
I think a pistol is the best compromise. You can't anticipate every situation. I think a good bet is to always carry a pistol and have a shotgun or rifle close at hand, such as in your truck or car.

RWBlue
07-24-2011, 22:40
This thread is like saying my arms are more important than my legs in a SHTF. One is not the only solution, so you need both.

I suggest getting a shotgun first. It costs the least. Is usable by almost anyone. Can be used on all game in the world.

Then a pistol. You already have a long gun.

Then a rifle. Longer range. More firepower.

Then think about getting seconds.

RatDrall
07-25-2011, 05:49
Weapons aren't needed 99.99% of the time when SHTF, in real life. It's a silly fantasy that we like to play out in our heads, to be ready for whatever comes our way, which isn't a bad thing.

I've been through some stuff, and only ever needed water, some bleach, basic first aid and a trauma kit. Many many others can echo this. Few can say that they needed a black rifle and 15 magazines because the power went out, or they got into a car accident.

All that said, people should buy what they want, and train hard with their stuff, in case fantasy does ever crash into our reality.

It is perfect for getting shot in the back if carried openly.

Fixed it.

Yes, a handgun under your shirt trumps a rifle when in public at any time, SHTF or not. I've long held the opinion that rifles and shotguns are to defend your home and property, and cause more trouble than its worth anywhere else (aside from camping or hiking in bear country, or similar).

cyrsequipment
07-25-2011, 07:07
A SHTF scenario is much more likely to be a personal one, you are walking to your car and someone tells you that they want your wallet. Or they they think you are the anti-christ and start trying to open up your skull with a brick.

I have no illusions that I'll be carrying a rifle around in public (unless I get back into that line of work), but I do carry a pistol daily and likely will for the rest of my life.

A pistol is a good defensive weapon. It will serve you for 95% of all lethal force encounters you are likely to face (think of how often a cop uses a long gun to drop someone). I'm not saying that it is a good choice when facing a determined person who is armed with a rifle, but how often do you plan on running into a person with a rifle?

Unless two nutbags who think they are Mad Max somehow run into each other when the power goes out after a thunderstorm. Most likely if you are encountering someone who is a lethal threat to you, they will be armed with a knife or a pistol.

barbedwiresmile
07-25-2011, 07:25
Tools in toolbox...

Certainly there are many situations where a pistol is the superior tool. And there are many others where the rifle is superior. Still others, the shotgun.

Best to have a full toolbox and choose the appropriate tool for the appropriate situation given your surroundings, the nature of the SHTF, etc.

Bilbo Bagins
07-25-2011, 08:35
A pistol in the hand is better than two rifles in the bush.

+1 great line:rofl:

Sorry to burst people bubbles, but the pistol will be king for the majority of SHTF events.

An AR/AK or MBR is great to have when you need to make that 300 yard shoot at the approaching zombie horde, and a shotgun is pretty handy to have when you need to hunt for your own food in a Max Max world, but the #1 gun to have for you standard run of the mill SHTF event is a handgun.

A handgun you can carry with you 24/7. You can carry concealed if you need to or carry open to "prevent this". You can defend your home with a good handgun, you can also defend your car even while driving, or your camp site, or whatever. You need a gun when the SHTF to protect yourself and your family, from bad people. Most of those encounters will be within 25 yards. You are not a soldier at war, you are a civilian. The Shotgun and longguns are great to have, but as an all around weapon for someone starting out with prepping I always tell them to buy a good, high capacity pistol FIRST.

cyrsequipment
07-25-2011, 08:45
Shotguns, and longguns are :shocked:

???

Don't leave me hanging dude!!!!

quake
07-25-2011, 09:00
This thread is like saying my arms are more important than my legs in a SHTF. One is not the only solution, so you need both...


Tools in toolbox...

...Best to have a full toolbox and choose the appropriate tool for the appropriate situation given your surroundings, the nature of the SHTF, etc.

Agree with both - sometimes you need a screwdriver, sometimes you need pliers, sometimes you need a knife. Thing is, I can't carry all the tools from my toolbox all day everyday. Pistol's kind of like a multi-tool in that way to me - not perfect for every situation (maybe not even any situation), but I'm not carrying a full toolbox in my hand all day long; I can however carry a multitool. Same with a pistol to me; it doesn't do everything a rifle or shotgun can, but it does do as much as can be done in a genuinely "always have it with you" package, at least in today's society.

wjv
07-25-2011, 11:24
Mad Max = Rifle

Argentina = Pistol

Bilbo Bagins
07-25-2011, 13:14
:shocked:

???

Don't leave me hanging dude!!!!

Yea someone in work interrupped my GT post, and I hit submit. I kind of said everything in the last paragraph, so nevermind :rofl:

cyrsequipment
07-25-2011, 13:20
Yea someone in work interrupped my GT post, and I hit submit. I kind of said everything in the last paragraph, so nevermind :rofl:

Aw man... :crying:

Catshooter
07-25-2011, 13:46
Mad Max = Rifle

Argentina = Pistol

And how about today? Everyday (should) = Pistol.


Cat

M1A Shooter
07-25-2011, 15:03
This thread is like saying my arms are more important than my legs in a SHTF. One is not the only solution, so you need both.

I suggest getting a shotgun first. It costs the least. Is usable by almost anyone. Can be used on all game in the world.

Then a pistol. You already have a long gun.

Then a rifle. Longer range. More firepower.

Then think about getting seconds.

this is exactly how i think as well. in my family, we all got shotguns as a "housewarming present" the first time we moved out. as soon as i was old enough to buy one, i got my first pistol.

emt1581
07-25-2011, 15:24
I know I've read one of FerFAL's postings where he said a RIFLE presented with the quick flip of his coat deterred a pair of BG's from making him a victim. Would a pistol have done the same thing? Maybe. I dunno. It sounds like there was some distance so maybe a pistol would have caused them to take their chances.

However, as stated, for 99.9% of situations/SHTF's, gunfire is not needed. But think about certain SHTF's where you are exposed while traveling and can't help it even if you move at night and stay quiet...would you rather have something concealed or be able to reach out a few hundred yards with a bullet? This was discussed recently in my GHB thread and the overwhelming response was that concealment trumped distance capabilities in a "getting home" situation. Personally, I tried a compromise and packed an AK pistol. It's made my GHB ridiculously heavy and does not work well for ease of carry.

The best weapon would be a pistol with distance/penetration capabilities...like the Five-seveN pistol. With that gun you have light weight, distance, penetration (so long as you can get your hands on some non-de-nutted ammo!!), concealability, light recoil, higher capacity, etc...but it's pricey for most and not the cheapest to practice with.

During a true SHTF I won't be venturing too far from my vehicle and there will certainly be at least two long guns in there. If need be I'll carry my rifle. However, as stated, it's typically not needed and is a PITA.

As with everything in life you have to consider your own situation and needs as well as the specific SHTF(s) you are planning for or experiencing. While I might be able to walk around with a rifle, you may be reduced to a micro-.380acp.

-Emt1581

Mr.Pliskin
07-26-2011, 12:10
Im definately with the you need both catagory. You should really have a pistol on you 24/7 SHTF or not. One can never tell when someone wants to rob,mug or murder him, people are always being in the "wrong place at the wrong time" and the pistol allows you to have a gun in those circumstances.

But then you see pictures of neighborhoods during disasters with big signs on the end of the block, where pretty much everyone is outside with a long gun, ready to protect their neighborhood. And shop owners during riots with long guns on top of shop roofs prepared to defend against looters at distances that most people are not comfortable shooting a pistol. In any case if you have the need for a long gun you should already have a pistol under your shirt.

Use a pistol when you have to, use a rifle when you can.

Bolster
07-26-2011, 12:39
Weapons aren't needed 99.99% of the time when SHTF, in real life. It's a silly fantasy that we like to play out in our heads, to be ready for whatever comes our way, which isn't a bad thing...

Agreed. If you consider what's most probable, then chances are that water, a helmet, a crowbar, a dust-mask, a knife and a FAK will be more useful tools in the next SHTF scenario. However if I lived a mile or two east (south L.A.) then a pistol might make the short list.

Aceman
07-26-2011, 16:06
Weapons aren't needed 99.99% of the time when SHTF, in real life. It's a silly fantasy that we like to play out in our heads, to be ready for whatever comes our way, which isn't a bad thing.

Well, thank you very much much for ruining the dream and waking me from an otherwise perfect fantasy! :steamed:

I've been through some stuff, and only ever needed water, some bleach, basic first aid and a trauma kit.

Agreed. If you consider what's most probable, then chances are that water, a helmet, a crowbar, a dust-mask, a knife and a FAK will be more useful tools in the next SHTF scenario.

So let me get this straight: You are saying that water and first aid are more important than guns? I may have to think about this. I see a lot here on the intarwebs that would suggest otherwise. Not saying you are wrong - just that i need to consider this....:rofl:


This really backs up to the "What is best for home defense?" question. The reality is that you are far more likely to need to defend your home than be in a SHTF. So I say get whatever is best for that first. Then get whatever you want. I maintain stock your supplies, and stay home during SHTF if at all possible. So a long gun is still best out of the gate. UNLESS you need to go out. But going out if not necessary is still inviting trouble.

Much like RW - for less money you can get a far better gun that requires much less practice to become effective with. We all agree if you can't use it, it doesn't matter. Spend the rest on water and first aid....so you can stay home.

You just can't argue with the fact that one of each is what absolutely rules.

Bolster
07-26-2011, 16:26
Well, I'm guessing that the first impulse of a lot of people will be to help their neighbors in a crisis, rather than kill them...we all know what the caveats are on that statement. There will be certain neighborhoods that turn on themselves, no doubt. But there will likely be more that band together. This is what humans have done throughout history. We make coalitions to defend ourselves from those that are too powerful.

So I'd expect a lot of coalitions to form quickly post SHTF, rather than the romanticized mano-a-mano type conflict. Where handguns are so wonderfully useful, is they restrain many in the larger population against their darker urges. You never know who's got a handgun, so it's best to behave.

So I guess my vote goes for handgun, for philosophical reasons. If everyone had one, even in a post-apocalyptic world, it would be a much more polite and civilized society.

Aceman
07-26-2011, 16:31
When a posse of neiborhood handgun weilders comes across a badguy with an AK and a bad attitude, they are in in deep doo doo - 2, 10, 20, whatever. If he is 200yds away, they are toast.

ArmoryDoc
07-26-2011, 16:55
In a SHTF scenario, food, water and shelter are the primary considerations. All else falls into second place. Firearms will be an important aspect in the equation but they don't trump the first three unless a specific, imminent threat gets between you and the first three.

jdavionic
07-26-2011, 17:06
I'd answer it this way. Vise grip pliers are very useful in many situations, but not all. It's a tool with many applications. So is a handgun. In an economic collapse scenario (e.g., FerFAL), it may be very bad to draw attention to yourself. You can see the desire to 'blend in' was very much on his mind.

In post Katrina, people were trying to remain on their property and survive. There, I'd rather have a long gun.

Just depends on the scenario.

UneasyRider
07-26-2011, 17:34
I'd answer it this way. Vise grip pliers are very useful in many situations, but not all. It's a tool with many applications. So is a handgun. In an economic collapse scenario (e.g., FerFAL), it may be very bad to draw attention to yourself. You can see the desire to 'blend in' was very much on his mind.

In post Katrina, people were trying to remain on their property and survive. There, I'd rather have a long gun.

Just depends on the scenario.

The police were taking the guns away from people when they saw them during Katrina. I bet that they didn't take away a lot of concealed pistols.

emt1581
07-26-2011, 17:46
The police were taking the guns away from people when they saw them during Katrina. I bet that they didn't take away a lot of concealed pistols.

We've had many a conversation about what should have happened to those "just following orders" to confiscate.

...unfortunately there is little the individual or even neighborhood can do.

Isn't there some saying that goes something like "when it's time to bury your guns, it's time to USE them"? Couldn't "conceal" be substituted for "bury"?

Much easier just to accept the limitations than actually put up a fight I suppose.

-Emt1581

quake
07-26-2011, 17:57
...Isn't there some saying that goes something like "when it's time to bury your guns, it's time to USE them"?...

Iirc it was "if it's time to bury guns, it's time to dig them up".

emt1581
07-26-2011, 17:59
Iirc it was "if it's time to bury guns, it's time to dig them up".

That was it. Thanks Quake. :wavey:

-Emt1581

jdavionic
07-26-2011, 18:18
The police were taking the guns away from people when they saw them during Katrina. I bet that they didn't take away a lot of concealed pistols.

They were taking away guns - pistols and rifles that were not hidden.

PlasticGuy
07-26-2011, 19:00
As much as many SHTF discussions focus on AR vs. AK vs. FAL, the fact is that your every day ccw handgun is what will likely continue to defend you whenever outside the home. My house is defended by some very capable long guns. When I leave the house, 99.9% of the time it's with only a handgun immediately accessable. I don't see that changing under most SHTF scenerios. If your gun is visible, you become a target for both good and bad guys.

A folding stock SBR might change that a bit though.

lawman800
07-26-2011, 19:10
How about carrying a concealed AR or AK pistol?

I actually would list a serbu super shorty on my qual card if I ever get my class 3 signed off.

PlasticGuy
07-26-2011, 19:25
How about carrying a concealed AR or AK pistol?

I actually would list a serbu super shorty on my qual card if I ever get my class 3 signed off.
Gimmick.

However, add a stock and a shorty AK rocks! That is the correct answer if you're in an SBR friendly state. That is the SBR solution. It just might be the ultimate SHTF option.

emt1581
07-26-2011, 19:30
How about carrying a concealed AR or AK pistol?

I actually would list a serbu super shorty on my qual card if I ever get my class 3 signed off.

The AK pistol does NOT work at least for carry in a bag. It's WAAAYY too heavy. For under the coat over the shoulder carry it might work.

For SHTF, a Serbu would not be my first choice. Too low cap IMO.

-Emt1581

quake
07-26-2011, 19:32
How about carrying a concealed AR or AK pistol?..
I personally wouldn't, but some like them. Jmo, but too much bulk for what they deliver & too much blast for indoor use. Never had a pistol AR, but hat a 10.5" ar carbine a while back. Bad loud blast & pressure wave from that thing, even outdoors. (And this from someone who loves shooting a chopped-barrel .454 revolver.) With 7-9 inch pistol-length barrels, figure only between .357 & .44 revolver power with .223 ammunition. Much better with the x39 round - around 1300-1400 ft/lbs, but in a large, heavy package that's just got to be deafening and disorienting, especially indoors. Basically your're touching off a .30-30 round in a gun with a 7-9 inch barrel. Could definitely put the hurt on someone, but not anything I want for personal defense.

I'd much rather stick with either a handgun or a carbine, not a rifle cut down to handgun size.

Just my personal opinion; nothing inherently 'wrong' with it. (It just sucks is all... :tongueout: )

lawman800
07-26-2011, 19:46
Gimmick.

However, add a stock and a shorty AK rocks! That is the correct answer if you're in an SBR friendly state. That is the SBR solution. It just might be the ultimate SHTF option.

How about if you paint the tip of the AK orange?:whistling:

lawman800
07-26-2011, 19:48
I personally wouldn't, but some like them. Jmo, but too much bulk for what they deliver & too much blast for indoor use. Never had a pistol AR, but hat a 10.5" ar carbine a while back. Bad loud blast & pressure wave from that thing, even outdoors. (And this from someone who loves shooting a chopped-barrel .454 revolver.) With 7-9 inch pistol-length barrels, figure only between .357 & .44 revolver power with .223 ammunition. Much better with the x39 round - around 1300-1400 ft/lbs, but in a large, heavy package that's just got to be deafening and disorienting, especially indoors. Basically your're touching off a .30-30 round in a gun with a 7-9 inch barrel. Could definitely put the hurt on someone, but not anything I want for personal defense.

I'd much rather stick with either a handgun or a carbine, not a rifle cut down to handgun size.

Just my personal opinion; nothing inherently 'wrong' with it. (It just sucks is all... :tongueout: )

So no Rossi Ranch Hand?

Jeepnik
07-26-2011, 19:58
The pistol's only redeeming quality is its convenience. Otherwise, a long arm beats the crap out of a handgun in any situation where you might actually have to do some shooting.

Okay, we're nose to nose. Unsling and fire your rifle before I draw and fire a pistol. :rofl: Firearms are tools. Use the proper tool for the job.

quake
07-27-2011, 06:18
So no Rossi Ranch Hand?
Not if it's in a rifle caliber... :)

In the pistol calibers it's made in, even though it could be fun, it'd still be impractical. For that matter, notice that even on those (in pistol calibers) they put around 50% more barrel than the 7-9 inch typically seen on AR & AK pistols, which are firing loads intended for rifle barrels.


That said, I know there's bound to be someone around here who's got (or made) one of those in .480, with muzzle porting, a green laser, and a Gen-4 NV unit with 5-watt illuminator... :supergrin:

lawman800
07-27-2011, 09:57
The ranch hand only comes in 357 or 44 magnum. I wish it came in 30-30.

quake
07-27-2011, 10:21
...I wish it came in 30-30.
I'm not that masochistic. :tongueout:

Seriously, if a person already was a .30-30 user & it simplified ammo issues, it could be worthwhile. I'm just looking at the numbers & presumed blast associated with those numbers. Long-barrel handguns (contender, etc) shooting .30-30 are almost .454 power, but in a package larger, more awkward and slower to fire than the .454 is. I don't believe that kind of gun would really give me a range advantage over a normal high-power (.44mag, .454, etc) handgun, and if not, I don't see what advantage it does offer...?

Not saying they couldn't be effective, just that I don't see them as real efficient.

But obviously, to each his own. I'm still jonesing for a .454 Alaskan, and it's probably not the most practical defensive gun either... :supergrin:

PlasticGuy
07-27-2011, 11:17
I'm not that masochistic. :tongueout:

Seriously, if a person already was a .30-30 user & it simplified ammo issues, it could be worthwhile. I'm just looking at the numbers & presumed blast associated with those numbers. Long-barrel handguns (contender, etc) shooting .30-30 are almost .454 power, but in a package larger, more awkward and slower to fire than the .454 is. I don't believe that kind of gun would really give me a range advantage over a normal high-power (.44mag, .454, etc) handgun, and if not, I don't see what advantage it does offer...?

Not saying they couldn't be effective, just that I don't see them as real efficient.

But obviously, to each his own. I'm still jonesing for a .454 Alaskan, and it's probably not the most practical defensive gun either... :supergrin:
The nice thing about something like a 7.62x39 or .30-30 is that they will penetrate soft armor. Might not be needed, but it doesn't hurt.

lawman800
07-27-2011, 12:31
The nice thing about something like a 7.62x39 or .30-30 is that they will penetrate soft armor. Might not be needed, but it doesn't hurt.

It hurts on the receiving end.:whistling::rofl::tongueout:

fourdeuce2
07-27-2011, 18:35
Okay, we're nose to nose. Unsling and fire your rifle before I draw and fire a pistol. :rofl: Firearms are tools. Use the proper tool for the job.

If you are nose to nose, there is no need to fire the rifle. At that range, you unsling it and use it like a club while the other guy is trying to draw and fire his pistol. One buttstroke in the groin or the chin and you'll be forgetting all about that pistol you were going for. :tongueout:

When using the proper tool for the job, don't forget to use it in the proper way. ;)

lawman800
07-27-2011, 21:21
If you are nose to nose, there is no need to fire the rifle. At that range, you unsling it and use it like a club while the other guy is trying to draw and fire his pistol. One buttstroke in the groin or the chin and you'll be forgetting all about that pistol you were going for. :tongueout:

When using the proper tool for the job, don't forget to use it in the proper way. ;)

If you're nose to nose, you better start headbutting, elbowing, kneeing, biting, crying, etc.

Bilbo Bagins
07-27-2011, 21:55
If you are nose to nose, there is no need to fire the rifle. At that range, you unsling it and use it like a club while the other guy is trying to draw and fire his pistol. One buttstroke in the groin or the chin and you'll be forgetting all about that pistol you were going for. :tongueout:

When using the proper tool for the job, don't forget to use it in the proper way. ;)

Or as tactical tom struggles to get his 5.11 1 point sling attachment off and I proceed to pistol whip him upside his head and a choke him to death with his own sling.

lawman800
07-27-2011, 23:19
Or as tactical tom struggles to get his 5.11 1 point sling attachment off and I proceed to pistol whip him upside his head and a choke him to death with his own sling.

Take it easy, son.

I ain't easy and I ain't your son. You can take your sorry and shove it up your ass.

fourdeuce2
07-28-2011, 09:00
Or as tactical tom struggles to get his 5.11 1 point sling attachment off and I proceed to pistol whip him upside his head and a choke him to death with his own sling.

If you're counting on him struggling with the sling, you'll be the one in for a surprise.:whistling:

glock39
07-28-2011, 09:02
Getting back on topic...

I would note that, while it is the mission of the military to "kill people and break things", many in the military do not carry a rifle with them all the time. The police are paid to chase after and catch the Bad Guys that the rest of are trying to avoid, and they don't carry rifles all the time.

Both the military and the police do carry rifles in certain circumstances.

So, how does that apply to civilians in a SHTF situation?

1 old 0311
07-28-2011, 15:54
If you are nose to nose, there is no need to fire the rifle. At that range, you unsling it and use it like a club while the other guy is trying to draw and fire his pistol. One buttstroke in the groin or the chin and you'll be forgetting all about that pistol you were going for. :tongueout:

When using the proper tool for the job, don't forget to use it in the proper way. ;)




To use a rifle as a club you need how many hands? If one is occupied you are SOL.

How many hands does it take to use a handgun? If one is occupied you are still in the game.

Life isn't a video game and you ain't a Ninga. Use your head kids!

Vic777
07-28-2011, 16:21
a revolver is nice the S&W 627 is reliable in the muck, always fires
http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product4_750001_750051_765955_-1_757751_757751_757751_ProductDisplayErrorView_Y

quake
07-28-2011, 18:37
Getting back on topic...

I would note that, while it is the mission of the military to "kill people and break things", many in the military do not carry a rifle with them all the time. The police are paid to chase after and catch the Bad Guys that the rest of are trying to avoid, and they don't carry rifles all the time...
(Sorry for the threadjack... :embarassed:) To me, it boils down to a point made in your opening post; a point that nobody really refutes:

...While rifles are what people choose to fight with, the lowly pistol is what you're likely to actually have at hand when you suddenly need it...

No one's yet claimed that that's an untrue statement, and that about sums up my take on the question. No denying I'd rather have my AR, AK, M1, whatever; but I don't always. I do always have a handgun - except when in the shower or in bed or in very rare instances where other reasons preclude. (Today, I was in the Clinton Library in Little Rock - federal facility so no firearms there, even for LEO's.) But barring those very rare situations, I have a handgun always; which is certainly orders of magnitude greater than the times I have a long gun. And since I can't predict when or where I might need a firearm, seems like the one that's actually with me has to hold the title of "most useful" one. And that's a handgun... :dunno:

callihan_44
07-28-2011, 18:52
pistol for convience when out and about, shotgun to keep zombies at bay when holed up in the shack

lawman800
07-28-2011, 19:55
Cops carry handguns because it's the tool that will always be on us and we are taught to fight to get back to the squad to get the shotgun/carbine if possible when something unexpected goes down. On known trouble calls, you bet we will be coming out with the shoulder weapon from the get go.

We don't go around with a shoulder weapon 24/7 because we couldn't do our job otherwise too well if we had to open doors, hold things, etc. with a shoulder weapon in our arms the whole time. The political climate in America also does not support street cops walking around all day with shoulder weapons, unlike Europe or Asia or most other African countries where the cops are armed to the teeth.

So... I think that about encapsulates it and it translates pretty much 100% into the civilian world.

glock39
07-29-2011, 09:45
(Sorry for the threadjack... :embarassed:)


That's OK - what's a discussion on GT without a little threadjacking? :whistling:

quake
07-29-2011, 10:24
...what's a discussion on GT without a little threadjacking? :whistling:

Short...? :supergrin:

fourdeuce2
07-29-2011, 10:46
"Cops carry handguns because it's the tool that will always be on us"

Soldiers carry long guns because it's the tool that will always be on us or near us. :cool:

"We don't go around with a shoulder weapon 24/7 because we couldn't do our job otherwise too well if we had to open doors, hold things, etc. with a shoulder weapon in our arms the whole time."

Soldiers manage to do MANY things with shoulder weapons, although it does cause lots of problems. I was in the Army for years before I figured out why my right kidney area was always sore when I was in the field. Finally figured out it was the magazine(or magazine well) of my M16 jabbing me there while I had it slung on my shoulder.:rofl:

fourdeuce2
07-29-2011, 10:52
To use a rifle as a club you need how many hands?

One

If one is occupied you are SOL.

Not if you know what you are doing. Check out the book Kill or Get Killed, by Col. Rex Applegate if you want more information on it.

How many hands does it take to use a handgun? If one is occupied you are still in the game.

Life isn't a video game and you ain't a Ninga. Use your head kids!

I don't know how old you are, but I already spent 15 years in the Army(and have been out for almost 20 years), so I'm not much of a kid. Nobody here claimed life was a video game or that we were ninjas. Nor did we claim some imaginary "expertise" we didn't have(at least not ALL of us did that:tongueout:). If you give up in a fight because one of your hands is "occupied", then not only are you not a ninja, but you are not a fighter either.
I found the book online(PDF format) at http://judoinfo.com/pdf/Kill_or_Get_Killed.pdf

1 old 0311
07-29-2011, 15:07
I don't know how old you are, but I already spent 15 years in the Army(and have been out for almost 20 years), so I'm not much of a kid. Nobody here claimed life was a video game or that we were ninjas. Nor did we claim some imaginary "expertise" we didn't have(at least not ALL of us did that:tongueout:). If you give up in a fight because one of your hands is "occupied", then not only are you not a ninja, but you are not a fighter either.
I found the book online(PDF format) at http://judoinfo.com/pdf/Kill_or_Get_Killed.pdf


So in the Army you learned to present a rifle ONE HANDED at nose to nose distance? RIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGHT!

Haldor
07-29-2011, 20:12
A pistol in the hand is better than two rifles in the bush.

And that sounds like it could be the punch line to a dirty joke.

fourdeuce2
07-29-2011, 22:45
So in the Army you learned to present a rifle ONE HANDED at nose to nose distance? RIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGHT!

No, some things I learned on my own(including the fact that if you hold somebody at gunpoint you should not let them get within "nose to nose distance"). The Army often teaches just the basics. It's up to the responsible person to figure out the rest on their own.
Where did you learn to give up if you have only one hand unoccupied and no handgun?:rofl:

RMTactical
07-30-2011, 00:32
I'd say yes, or at least that they're the most versatile defensive weapon.

+1

Although I like having options... :)