The Gift of Salvation [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Kingarthurhk
07-25-2011, 07:31
Ephesians 2:8
2 Corinthians 9:15
Romans 5:15-19
1 Corinthians 1:30
Acts 5:31
Romans 12:3
Acts 2:38
Ephesians 2:8
Acts 5:31
1 Corinthians 15:37
Ezekiel 36:26
Romans 5:17
Romans 6:23

All of these hinge on simplicity itself, John 3:16, "For God so loved the world the He gave His only begotten Son that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life."

Vic Hays
07-25-2011, 08:59
:wavey:
John 3:16 is so simple and yet so profound. That particular section of the Book of John is all like that. I love it.

I am glad for your deliverance from some of your earthly trials Arthur.

SDGlock23
07-25-2011, 09:10
<sup class="versenum" id="en-NKJV-26133">Good post. I especially like the verses after John 3:16


16</sup> "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

<sup class="versenum" id="en-NKJV-26134">17</sup> For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

<sup class="versenum" id="en-NKJV-26135">18</sup> “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. <sup class="versenum" id="en-NKJV-26136">

19</sup> "And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. <sup class="versenum" id="en-NKJV-26137">

20</sup> "For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. <sup class="versenum" id="en-NKJV-26138">

21</sup> "But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”

PRAISE JESUS, THE KING OF KINGS!!

Vic Hays
08-04-2011, 07:46
To each man is given a measure of faith and the opportunity for salvation.

In a very short time, the wink of an eye in comparison to eternity, our mortal lives will be over. Many will be saved, but many more will be lost because they have spurned the gift of salvation purchased with the blood of Jesus.

Hebrews 12:14 Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord.

NMG26
08-04-2011, 07:54
So this "salvation" gift is pretty simple.

How many salvations are there?

Can I live my salvation now or do I have to wait for it?

I see so many Christians that are waiting of life.......waiting for their salvation......they miss the wonder that is in the here and now.

They have no hope for this world because their salvation is in another world.

Vic Hays
08-04-2011, 13:28
So this "salvation" gift is pretty simple.

How many salvations are there?

Can I live my salvation now or do I have to wait for it?

I see so many Christians that are waiting of life.......waiting for their salvation......they miss the wonder that is in the here and now.

They have no hope for this world because their salvation is in another world.

There is only one salvation and Yes, you can experience some of it now.

John 10:9-12 "I am the door: If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture. The thief does not come except to steal, and to kill, and destroy. I have come that they may have life, and that they may have it more abundantly. I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd gives His life for the sheep. But a hireling, he who is not the shepherd, one who does not own the sheep, sees the wolf comingh and leaves the sheep and flees; and the wolf catches the sheep and scatters them.

NMG26
08-04-2011, 17:54
There is only one salvation and Yes, you can experience some of it now.


So the saved are only experiencing a part of their salvation. This life is always just part. The fullness of this salvation is a future thing that no one really knows if it exists or not. It seems that there is always lack in this faith. This salvation seems to be wanting.............you never really quite get there until the rapture or death or the Lord calls you home.

I prefer a faith of no lack.

You are perfect, whole, and complete, just the way that you are. This seems to make for a happier life.

Vic Hays
08-04-2011, 18:16
So the saved are only experiencing a part of their salvation. This life is always just part. The fullness of this salvation is a future thing that no one really knows if it exists or not. It seems that there is always lack in this faith. This salvation seems to be wanting.............you never really quite get there until the rapture or death or the Lord calls you home.

I prefer a faith of no lack.

You are perfect, whole, and complete, just the way that you are. This seems to make for a happier life.

Being a Christian is better in this life. Knowing that you have value and purpose, a clear conscience and fellowship with the saints and Holy Spirit make it so mujch more satisfying than trying to find somethimng to amuse yourself with.

God is good. He allows free will. If you choose to decline His offer of salvation, He will not drag you screaming and kicking into His kingdom. At the judgment you will find out what you have declined to accept as a free gift.

I Corinthians 2:9 .....Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, Nor have entered into the heart of man The things which God has prepared for those who love Him. But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God.

NorthCarolinaLiberty
08-04-2011, 21:29
GT altar call?

Vic Hays
08-05-2011, 07:57
GT altar call?

Everyone in the world is invited to get to know Jesus.

Matthew 12:27-30 "All things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father, Nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him. Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.

NMG26
08-05-2011, 08:14
Being a Christian is better in this life. Knowing that you have value and purpose, a clear conscience and fellowship with the saints and Holy Spirit make it so mujch more satisfying than trying to find somethimng to amuse yourself with.

God is good. He allows free will. If you choose to decline His offer of salvation, He will not drag you screaming and kicking into His kingdom. At the judgment you will find out what you have declined to accept as a free gift.

I Corinthians 2:9 .....Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, Nor have entered into the heart of man The things which God has prepared for those who love Him. But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God.

See there is the difference. I am not waiting for the kingdom of God.

I am saved! Sozo.
http://www.resourcesforchristians.net/node/83

This life is where true salvation is lived.

I don't know about the next life, or if there be one, but I do not fear it.

I won't be missing out on living this life for the expectation of some future salvation. If you loose faith in mankind, and think that God is going to fix everything with some kind of a magic, stop this world, everyone out, salvation of the future; You neglect the wonder of the present kingdom of God, which is in every human, no matter what their religion.

achysklic
08-05-2011, 08:31
Everyone in the world is invited to get to know Jesus.

This isn't exactly true Vic. Do you believe what Jesus actually says or what you think He said?

Matt.22:14. For many are called, but few are chosen.

This is Not everyone Vic.

Although the mass majority will be called, only a few are actually chosen.

Your way of thinking is Everyone is called.

That just isn't the case at this present time.

With that said, Everyone will at some point have a shot at salvation. Just not now.

NMG26
08-05-2011, 08:38
This isn't exactly true Vic. Do you believe what Jesus actually says or what you think He said?

Matt.22:14. For many are called, but few are chosen.”

This is Not everyone Vic.

Although the mass majority will be called, only a few are actually chosen.

Your way of thinking is Everyone is called.

That just isn't the case at this present time.

With that said, Everyone will at some point have a shot at salvation. Just not now.


Yup.

You can just write this world off, because God is going to save who He will, and there is nothing we can do about it. This way of thinking is limited and limiting. It causes an "I don't care about this world" attitude. How could it not?

ArtificialGrape
08-05-2011, 08:58
Being a Christian is better in this life.
Better than what? being a Christian in the next life? not being a Christian in this life?

I've been a Christian, and not a Christian. I'd say "not" is better.

achysklic
08-05-2011, 09:08
Yup.

You can just write this world off, because God is going to save who He will, and there is nothing we can do about it. This way of thinking is limited and limiting. It causes an "I don't care about this world" attitude. How could it not?


That's crazy thinking, God not choosing to save the whole world at this time does not mean God is not going to offer everyone a chance at some point in the future. There is a reason to the 1,000 yr reigh of Jesus, and a period of time after that (most likely a 100 yrs) In which the majority of the world will have a chance at salvation.

NMG26
08-05-2011, 09:21
I've been a Christian, and not a Christian. I'd say "not" is better.

Hey, me too AG!

Took me a while to unravel the "knot" though.

NMG26
08-05-2011, 09:25
That's crazy thinking, God not choosing to save the whole world at this time does not mean God is not going to offer everyone a chance at some point in the future. There is a reason to the 1,000 yr reigh of Jesus, and a period of time after that (most likely a 100 yrs) In which the majority of the world will have a chance at salvation.

Still sounds like a whole lot of waiting for God to change things.

SPIN2010
08-05-2011, 09:29
Wow! Bible study is always evident in people. :supergrin:

ArtificialGrape
08-05-2011, 09:59
Hey, me too AG!

Took me a while to unravel the "knot" though.

Of course, most Christians will tell you that you only left Christianity so that you could be knotty without feeling guilty.

Syclone538
08-05-2011, 10:52
Or that we hate God. I asked someone on here that said that, if he could imagine a situation where he would hate FSM or IPU. It didn't take long before he stopped responding to me at all.

achysklic
08-05-2011, 11:31
Still sounds like a whole lot of waiting for God to change things.

Actually it's not alot of waiting at all.........God is working with His elect right now, getting them ready to be changed at His return and rule with Him for a 1,000 yrs teaching the rest of the world His way of life.

This way the whole world will have a shot at salvation.

Vic Hays
08-05-2011, 13:56
Actually it's not alot of waiting at all.........God is working with His elect right now, getting them ready to be changed at His return and rule with Him for a 1,000 yrs teaching the rest of the world His way of life.

This way the whole world will have a shot at salvation.

Sorry to differ. The Bible says that during the 1000 years there are those who are saved and the lost are dead.

You can't teach dead people.


Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. .................................

NMG26
08-05-2011, 15:15
Actually it's not alot of waiting at all.........God is working with His elect right now, getting them ready to be changed at His return and rule with Him for a 1,000 yrs teaching the rest of the world His way of life.

This way the whole world will have a shot at salvation.
Sorry to differ. The Bible says that during the 1000 years there are those who are saved and the lost are dead.

You can't teach dead people.


Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. ................................. .


Yup that is what I am talking about.
These salvations that you guys both talk about are not in the here and now..............God has to fix this world.

The thing is that God is not going to fix this world. The fixing of the world can only be done by us humans, no matter the faith. Wait all you want, but those that really know "salvation" (wholeness), are living it in the here and now, and the future will take care of itself.

achysklic
08-05-2011, 15:48
Sorry to differ. The Bible says that during the 1000 years there are those who are saved and the lost are dead.

You can't teach dead people.


Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. .................................

Vic, you can differ all you want, however,you just injection your interpretation. Fact is the 1,000 reigh is to teach those that are alive at Jesus return. Those that are dead will be resurrected after the 1,000 yrs and taught then. This period as I mentioned above is most likely 100 yrs. This is what Rev . 20 :5 is describing.

See this is wheer the SDA twist so much and come out looking foolish.

Vic Hays
08-05-2011, 22:24
Vic, you can differ all you want, however,you just injection your interpretation. Fact is the 1,000 reigh is to teach those that are alive at Jesus return. Those that are dead will be resurrected after the 1,000 yrs and taught then. This period as I mentioned above is most likely 100 yrs. This is what Rev . 20 :5 is describing.

See this is wheer the SDA twist so much and come out looking foolish.

Pure imagination on your part. There is not a shred of Scriptural evidence to support what you are saying.

427
08-06-2011, 02:02
Sorry to differ. The Bible says that during the 1000 years there are those who are saved and the lost are dead.

You can't teach dead people.


Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. .................................

Vic, you can differ all you want, however,you just injection your interpretation. Fact is the 1,000 reigh is to teach those that are alive at Jesus return. Those that are dead will be resurrected after the 1,000 yrs and taught then. This period as I mentioned above is most likely 100 yrs. This is what Rev . 20 :5 is describing.

See this is wheer the SDA twist so much and come out looking foolish.

So whose interpretation more righter? :upeyes::faint::whistling:

NorthCarolinaLiberty
08-06-2011, 02:23
Everyone in the world is invited to get to know Jesus.



I don't doubt your sincerity, but might question the method. I've never seen numbers on internet conversions, but the nature of discussion groups suggests that people solidify their positions far more often than accepting another's position. Kind of ironic (or maybe not) that I'm saying that in this thread.

Maybe I'm just not a big fan of technology for certain purposes, but people are really going to lay into you until they know the real you, something hard to achieve with communication like this.

achysklic
08-06-2011, 05:38
Pure imagination on your part. There is not a shred of Scriptural evidence to support what you are saying.


I disagree, I see where your confusion is comming from since you believe Jesus was Michael the arch angel and scripture clearly shows He is not.

However as soon as the Sabbath Is over I will gladly start a new thread and give you all the scripture you claim doesn't exist to support everything I have said.

Have a blessed Sabbath.

Vic Hays
08-06-2011, 08:58
So whose interpretation more righter? :upeyes::faint::whistling:

Prayerfully ask the Lord to give you understanding and read the Bible for yourself. Many people hear or read a little bit and jump to a conclusion. The Bible is consistent with itself. :wavey:

Vic Hays
08-06-2011, 09:04
I don't doubt your sincerity, but might question the method. I've never seen numbers on internet conversions, but the nature of discussion groups suggests that people solidify their positions far more often than accepting another's position. Kind of ironic (or maybe not) that I'm saying that in this thread.

Maybe I'm just not a big fan of technology for certain purposes, but people are really going to lay into you until they know the real you, something hard to achieve with communication like this.

At least discussing brings out the real issues.

There really isn't an issue when it comes to the subject of salvation.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

427
08-06-2011, 10:05
Prayerfully ask the Lord to give you understanding and read the Bible for yourself. Many people hear or read a little bit and jump to a conclusion. The Bible is consistent with itself. :wavey:

If that's true, then why are there different interpretations and versions of the bible? Why does everybody think their interpretation is right? It would seem that God really doesn't care his "written" word is interpreted.

NorthCarolinaLiberty
08-06-2011, 15:11
At least discussing brings out the real issues.

I'm not sure how many real issues are examined in any forum. Seems that most people on forums are more interested in what they're saying, not what others are saying. How many times do you read, "I didn't read [all] the posts, but..." A forum is a place where people harden their resolve.

There really isn't an issue when it comes to the subject of salvation.

I would have to disagree because I think there are many issues, one of which is the method of reaching people. Compare street evangelism vs. internet forums vs. church attendance vs. daily living. Could be wrong here, but I might bet that Vic Hays the family man/co-worker/neighbor/etc. has far more influence in his daily living than your posts on this board.

It's really a matter of where you spend your energy and the results, but it is certainly your business how you do things.:wavey:


.....

Vic Hays
08-06-2011, 21:39
If that's true, then why are there different interpretations and versions of the bible? Why does everybody think their interpretation is right? It would seem that God really doesn't care his "written" word is interpreted.

There is nothing wrong with different versions of the Bible as long as they are honest translations. Which brings us to the second part of your question about interpretations.

1. People get erroneous ideas about what the Bible is saying because it is often not studied prayerfully and carefully compared with itself and there are many things that appeal to sinful humans because they want to hear them.

2. Do you love truth?
II Thessalonians 2:9-12 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of satan, with all power, signs and lying wonders, and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

NMG26
08-07-2011, 16:01
1. People get erroneous ideas about what the Bible is saying because it is often not studied prayerfully and carefully compared with itself and there are many things that appeal to sinful humans because they want to hear them.


Salvation comes down to the hatred of humanity..........sinful humans.

I find this lacking as well.

People must trust those that are better at praying and understaning the Bible, in order to know God, and their salvation. No wonder most folks don't bother discussing spirituality. There is a simple knowing in each person, that does not need to be justified by the doctrines of sectarian spirituality. True "salvation" starts with the simple love of humanity..........for "God so loves the world". Yeah I changed it. It is better in a present tense.

Vic Hays
08-07-2011, 19:13
Salvation comes down to the hatred of humanity..........sinful humans.

I find this lacking as well.

People must trust those that are better at praying and understaning the Bible, in order to know God, and their salvation. No wonder most folks don't bother discussing spirituality. There is a simple knowing in each person, that does not need to be justified by the doctrines of sectarian spirituality. True "salvation" starts with the simple love of humanity..........for "God so loves the world". Yeah I changed it. It is better in a present tense.

God loves the sinner but hates the sin. If you could understand absolute innocence you would understand what the inhabitants of heaven are like. They are safe to be around because they are not always scheming on you like most of the humans here on earth.

God is able to do without men to teach and pray. He has given this work to man to help with the rehab program until Jesus comes. It is a privilege to work with the heavenly agencies.

God is only a prayer away. Just ask Him to come into your heart and fix it please. He knows you well. You are completely transparent to Him. He knows every thought and motive of yours so it is impossible of Him to misunderstand or misjudge you.

Romans 2:14-16 for when the Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.

NMG26
08-08-2011, 19:31
God loves the sinner but hates the sin.


God does not hate at all. That is a human characteristic.
You are telling me that God hates something that he put into motion?

Even humanity does not hate what they create. They work with it and perfect it without hating it.


If you could understand absolute innocence you would understand what the inhabitants of heaven are like. They are safe to be around because they are not always scheming on you like most of the humans here on earth.


There is your hatred popping up again. "most of the humans on earth" are not scheming on me.
Your doctrine is a doctrine, of fear.
You think most of your fellow humans are bad people.
That is not true.


God is able to do without men to teach and pray. He has given this work to man to help with the rehab program until Jesus comes. It is a privilege to work with the heavenly agencies.


So God trusts mankind to do the work of reconciliation?
Now you are talking.
When I was a Christian I came to this same conclusion.
God trusts us.
I would even say that God has limited Himself to us, if I was a Christian.


God is only a prayer away. Just ask Him to come into your heart and fix it please. He knows you well. You are completely transparent to Him. He knows every thought and motive of yours so it is impossible of Him to misunderstand or misjudge you.

God is not "a prayer away". Christians really don't understand omnipresence.

I know that God is always working with my heart. That is part of my faith.

Salvation for me was growing up and out of the binding doctrines of Christianity. Each sect has it's own prison and warden. The doctrines of seperation.

You think I need salvation? I have already been set free from the imprisonment of sectarian religious doctrine. My healing is in the realization of it.

Vic Hays
08-09-2011, 07:42
God does not hate at all. That is a human characteristic.
You are telling me that God hates something that he put into motion?

Even humanity does not hate what they create. They work with it and perfect it without hating it.

.

God did not create sin. He hates it because it destroys His creation. God is not going to perfect sin.

Ezekiel 18:29-32 Yet the house of Israel says, "The way of the Lord is not fair." O house of Israel, is it not My ways which are fair, and your ways which are not fair? "Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways." says the Lord God. "Repent, and turn from all your transgressions which you have committed, and get yourselves a new heart and a new spirit. For why should you die, O house of Israel? For I have no pleasure in the death of one who dies," says the Lord God. "Therefore turn and live."

NMG26
08-09-2011, 08:52
God did not create sin. He hates it because it destroys His creation. God is not going to perfect sin.



Christains don't understand omniscience.

If God is all knowing then God knew that His world would have sin.

This world was made by no other then God.

There is no equal and there is no adversary to God.

God does not hate.

Vic Hays
08-09-2011, 14:25
Christains don't understand omniscience.

If God is all knowing then God knew that His world would have sin.

.

God created man anyway and He had a plan to redeem man that He gave free will to. God must have loved man quite a bit don't you think?