Thinking of getting a 1911... [Archive] - Glock Talk

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hfdg26
07-26-2011, 09:05
As the title says I'm strongly considering getting a 1911. I have little to no experience with the 1911. I shot 8 rounds through a Taurus 1911, that's it. That's my experience. I have a buddy that is selling his Colt Defender and I got bit by the bug. But I want to do my research before I jump in and buy something. His Defender was purchased in '02. And from what I read online is that Colt's don't like 230gr JHP. Which I'd what I want for personal defense. I read you have to run 185gr. FMJ. Is this true? Does the commander have the same issues? This is a MAJOR sticking point with me and getting a colt. Would a newer gun be better in this case? Do Springfields and Kimbers have the same problems? I know I'm asking a lot of questions, but I'm just trying to start out in the right direction. Thanks.

MajorD
07-26-2011, 09:21
there are lots of personal opinions on 1911's probably more than anything and I'll give you some of mine after the following statement which is often repeated by many top tier 1911 gunsmiths:
every time you shorten the slide of a 1911 from the original 5 inch barrel length it creates the potential for more functioning problems due to geometry mass working pressures etc.
ANY short 1911 regardless of brand is more likely to have functional issue than the full length 1911.

Your first 1911 should be a full length gun. It will more likely be reliable and accurate and easier to hit with to build your handgunning confidence.

All 1911's except maybe the high end custom makers will have various likes or dislikes in reliability/accuracy with different ammo. the same could be said for all guns.

don't get hung up on one bullet weight - theres no reason not to carry a well designed 185 or 200 grain hp if that is what the gun runs best.

I like my 1911's to be American- so that leaves out Springfield Taurus armscor "american classic" ria etc.

I have only Colts and Les Baers and have been quite happy.

I would if looking to buy new (I almost never buy new) I'd consider Ruger STI and smith and wesson.

Kimbers are way to hit and miss to suggest them

if price isn't an issue you could get a les baer right out of the gate.

Consider used but have a knowledgeable 1911 guy go shopping with you.

(in my area my usual shop has about 30 used 1911 in stock and literally hundreds of new ones.

HotRoderX
07-26-2011, 09:28
I gotta agree for a first 1911 I try for something full size. I am not a expert on 1911's by no means I shot 2 of them. I own a RIA 1911 Tactical and love it one of my favorites. Me personally I buy new for my first 1911 that way I know the history of it. I think 1911's are one of the most customizable pistols out there. I heard horror stores of someone butchering the internals trying to work on them then selling them off when they run like crap.

As far as bullet weight goes its over hyped maybe back in the day it mattered. Today's technology and computers bullet design is going to be a much bigger consideration then bullet weight.

bac1023
07-26-2011, 09:48
I wouldn't buy a Defender as a first 1911. Get something full size.

rahrah12
07-26-2011, 10:16
Did you ask your friend what if any problems the gun had?

BlayGlock
07-26-2011, 10:25
I personally did not have any problems running 230gr gold dots in my Defender when I had it. His gun may not like them, but you could probably get it running fine with them. I agree that I would not make that my first 1911.

hfdg26
07-26-2011, 11:18
Thank you for all your input. What attracted me to the Defender is its concealment. I did ask him if he had any failures and he answered "I can't remember, it was soon long ago" Yes, big red flag went up. He would let me try it out before buying, but I think he's asking too much. That and he is asking $900. I can get a new one for $950. So his is out of the question.

With the info I'm getting, I am shying away from the 3" and leaning more to the 4" possibly 5". I want it for carry also. and I don't know if the 5" is manageable for carry.

There's a lot to process, I may have to really consider my philosophy of use.

GeorgiaRedfish
07-26-2011, 11:22
How tall are you, what is your build, and how much do you weigh?

BuckyP
07-26-2011, 11:26
How tall are you, what is your build, and how much do you weigh?

You forgot "what's your astrological sign?"

:tongueout:

Z28ricer
07-26-2011, 11:29
I have a Kimber Ultra 3"

Bought it as my first 1911

Fed it 230gr ball

Fed it 230gr JHP's

It hasnt had a problem feeding either.

Fullsizes are way too big for some, for concealment.

If shorter slides/barrels were such an issue, we wouldnt have them from plenty of production manufacturers.

Sure, when they were first being introduced, and before people actually put effort into making them work, they may have been an issue, but plenty of people now have plenty of great working compacts.

Dont let silly people regurgitating old information, repetitively, sway you from what you want.

Oh, and for the thing about "easier to build your handgunning exp".....

I guess everyone looking to switch to a 1911, now has never fired a compact, or subcompact weapon, and must start with a 5" gun ?

Oh heck, lets just skip that and go straight for one of those 6" guns, it'll make it lots easier to hit the target.

GeorgiaRedfish
07-26-2011, 11:30
You forgot "what's your astrological sign?"

:tongueout:
SHH, thats for the face to face meeting:rofl:

BuckyP
07-26-2011, 11:30
SHH, thats for the face to face meeting:rofl:

:animlol:

GeorgiaRedfish
07-26-2011, 11:31
I am 6'2", 185lbs, and normal build. I can carry a Fullsize 1911 all day everyday with out a problem.

hfdg26
07-26-2011, 11:36
I'm 5' 10.5" weigh about 195. Waist actual is 32" but I wear 34"

Could the smart carry be an option?

J/k. :o)

hfdg26
07-26-2011, 11:39
I am 6'2", 185lbs, and normal build. I can carry a Fullsize 1911 all day everyday with out a problem.


What holster do you use?

GeorgiaRedfish
07-26-2011, 11:39
Go to the Local Gun Shop ask them to hold a fullsize and ask to put it in a holster and wear it. Mine let me do it. See if you like it, bring a good belt.

hfdg26
07-26-2011, 12:03
Goin' tonight after my 36 hour stay at the station. Looking forward to some group therapy as well.

dnuggett
07-26-2011, 12:57
Dont let silly people regurgitating old information, repetitively, sway you from what you want.



I am assuming your comments about 3" 1911s and the above quoted comment are meant to go together. So, are you calling Hilton Yam and Larry Vickers silly people? Go read what they say about the smaller 1911s, it's not all wives tales and fiction.

That said, I do think they are getting better in some respects. The Springfield EMP would be an example (not a true 1911) To get to great reliability on the smaller 1911s the manufacturer usually has to stray away from the true design and make modifications other than scaling parts down. If you understand that, you are good to go OP.

BlayGlock
07-26-2011, 13:15
Sure, when they were first being introduced, and before people actually put effort into making them work, they may have been an issue, but plenty of people now have plenty of great working compacts.

Dont let silly people regurgitating old information, repetitively, sway you from what you want.


I do not know that it is so much a reliability issue as it is a shoot-ability issue. IMO the 3 in. does not conceal so much better as a commander or full size that the loss in shooting control and accuracy is worth it.

SigFTW
07-26-2011, 14:11
My first 1911 is a Kimber Stainless II. I shot my first IDPA with LSWC and did not have one issue.
It shoots LSWC, LRN and JHP, all reloads.

Joshhtn
07-26-2011, 14:16
I'm looking to buy a full size RIA Tactical here soon... It will be my first 1911... Can't wait!!

bac1023
07-26-2011, 14:39
You forgot "what's your astrological sign?"

:tongueout:

:rofl:

Fedor
07-26-2011, 15:11
Get one, but be forewarned... you will want more than one. :cool:

bac1023
07-26-2011, 15:25
Get one, but be forewarned... you will want more than one. :cool:

That's for sure. ;)

Z28ricer
07-26-2011, 15:52
I am assuming your comments about 3" 1911s and the above quoted comment are meant to go together. So, are you calling Hilton Yam and Larry Vickers silly people? Go read what they say about the smaller 1911s, it's not all wives tales and fiction.

That said, I do think they are getting better in some respects. The Springfield EMP would be an example (not a true 1911) To get to great reliability on the smaller 1911s the manufacturer usually has to stray away from the true design and make modifications other than scaling parts down. If you understand that, you are good to go OP.

People are often set in their ways, its not surprising for someone who didnt have luck with something when they first attempted, to brush it off as impossible, or not worth it.

Are you saying all these 3" and 3.5" guns from springfield, kimber, colt, sti, etc, just shouldnt run ? Because someone said they arent workable, because they werent able to figure things out, and wrote it off instead of fixing the problem ?

limbkiller
07-26-2011, 15:58
Don't do it man. 1911s are addictive and could ruin your life. Take on a second job, get a divorce, and move into a shanty far removed from society then by one.

Z28ricer
07-26-2011, 15:58
To add to the things people are set in their ways about.

I've seen it preached quite a bit that a .45acp 1911, and a ramped barrel is not a good combination at all, and shouldnt be done....

Yet STI, Kimber, Springfield, DW

All produce ramped barrel 1911's, every day, that run great.

As I said, things change, methods improve, people look at things with new eyes, every day.

Welcome to progression.

jrs93accord
07-26-2011, 16:12
Get one, but be forewarned... you will want more than one. :cool:

I find very little credence with this statement without some sort of physical evidence to support it.









:supergrin:

dnuggett
07-26-2011, 16:13
People are often set in their ways, its not surprising for someone who didnt have luck with something when they first attempted, to brush it off as impossible, or not worth it.

Are you saying all these 3" and 3.5" guns from springfield, kimber, colt, sti, etc, just shouldnt run ? Because someone said they arent workable, because they werent able to figure things out, and wrote it off instead of fixing the problem ?

Good grief, it's not about not having bad luck or a mysterious "somebody" who is giving their opinions on them. I have already suggested that you read what Yam and Vickers have to say. Maybe start first with who they are so you can gain an appreciation for their opinion.

I'm not saying they shouldn't run, I am saying for someone "thinking of getting a 1911" there are better choices. The smaller you go in the 1911 platform the more problems you have, this is the opinion of many (including Yam and Vickers). They have formed their opinion after having worked on, handled and run thousands of 1911s between the both of them. There are exceptions to just about any general rule though and from my experience the EMP is one of those. Again though, it's not a true 1911. Anecdotal information about how your 3" runs well, how I have seen a Kimber Ultra Carry **** the bed and an EMP run like champ is ultimately meaningless. What should matter to a newbie to the 1911 platform (OP) is reading the opinion of the guys like Yam who live and breathe 1911s.

jrs93accord
07-26-2011, 16:18
If you are considering carrying this 1911, might I recommend a Commander-size 1911. This will give you a 4"-4.25" barrel and a full length grip. My choice was a Kimber Stainless Pro Carry II. I have had it for nearly seven years now. Works very well for me.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m8/jamesrea_2006/jamesrea2011/001-23.jpg

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m8/jamesrea_2006/jamesrea2011/002-19.jpg

A couple very affordable options would be a new RIA 1911A1 MS or an ATI FX45 GI. I have an ATI FX45 GI and was very pleased with its performance right out of the box.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m8/jamesrea_2006/jamesrea2011/001-7.jpg


A full-size Government model 1911A1 is an excellent model to start with, but it is not always the best choice for everyone. I would probably look into the RIAs, ATIs, American Classics, Citadels, or High Standards first. These are Filipino-made 1911s that are some of the best bargains out there. These would be great models to start with. Once you get use to the platform and decide that you really like the 1911, you could make an investment into a more expensive model.

Z28ricer
07-26-2011, 16:24
Good grief, it's not about not having bad luck or a mysterious "somebody" who is giving their opinions on them. I have already suggested that you read what Yam and Vickers have to say. Maybe start first with who they are so you can gain an appreciation for their opinion.

I'm not saying they shouldn't run, I am saying for someone "thinking of getting a 1911" there are better choices. The smaller you go in the 1911 platform the more problems you have, this is the opinion of many (including Yam and Vickers). They have formed their opinion after having worked on, handled and run thousands of 1911s between the both of them. There are exceptions to just about any general rule though and from my experience the EMP is one of those. Again though, it's not a true 1911. Anecdotal information about how your 3" runs well, how I have seen a Kimber Ultra Carry **** the bed and an EMP run like champ is ultimately meaningless. What should matter to a newbie to the 1911 platform (OP) is reading the opinion of the guys like Yam who live and breathe 1911s.


Again, if what they "have to say" were set in stone facts, the companies i've listed, wouldnt consistently produce these "problematic" guns.

By the thousands....

As I said, people often have trouble with things they didnt get right the first time, and become set in their ways. I hear people say all the time 4 cylinders cant be fast, and they cant make power, yet every day they do, sometimes people just refuse to catch up with the times. Just because your example is one of those, doesnt make it irrefutable evidence.

G27RR
07-26-2011, 16:34
I wouldn't buy a Defender as a first 1911. Get something full size.

I would tend to agree, but a Defender was my first 1911 and it didn't scare me off. I can see how it could though for some people. Assuming it runs, all you're really dealing with though is more recoil, so grip well and practice to get used to it.

I suppose if mine hadn't worked, and none of my other sub 5" 1911s worked, I might have a different opinion. I actually prefer a Commander size for overall balance and shootability, but people are different. Shoot and buy what you like and works for you.

BTW, OP, I shoot nothing but 230gr in all my 1911s, Defender included. That goes for JHP and FMJ. (Excluding my 9mm Ranger II of course)

Hokie1911
07-26-2011, 16:54
I've never owned a 5" 1911 and I didn't get skeered off. :supergrin:

That said...I probably wouldn't buy a 3" .45acp 1911.

jrs93accord
07-26-2011, 17:39
I've never owned a 5" 1911 and I didn't get skeered off. :supergrin:

That said...I probably wouldn't buy a 3" .45acp 1911.

Oh, you should try it Paul. They are a real blast to shoot.

Hokie1911
07-26-2011, 17:44
Oh, you should try it Paul. They are a real blast to shoot.

I've shot a few......thanks to Quack, Knedrgr, and Lawdog.

R1
Pro
TRP
Trophy Match
MilSpec .45
MilSpec 9mm
Wilson 6"
Knedrgr's Remsport build
No Name

...so far. Someday I will pick up a 5" for the house. :supergrin:

69Charger
07-26-2011, 17:48
Full size Open carry for me.
Dave
http://i697.photobucket.com/albums/vv339/69Charger123/P7026826.jpg

jrs93accord
07-26-2011, 18:52
Full size Open carry for me.
Dave
http://i697.photobucket.com/albums/vv339/69Charger123/P7026826.jpg

Ooooorah! Outfrickinstanding! :thumbsup:

knedrgr
07-26-2011, 20:55
I've shot a few......thanks to Quack, Knedrgr, and Lawdog.

R1
Pro
TRP
Trophy Match
MilSpec .45
MilSpec 9mm
Wilson 6"
Knedrgr's Remsport build
No Name

...so far. Someday I will pick up a 5" for the house. :supergrin:

I think you'd left out these:
Kobra Carry
DW CCO
DW Guardian
EMP

You'll have to try my SA Ultra Compact.

Hokie1911
07-26-2011, 21:01
I think you'd left out these:
Kobra Carry
DW CCO
DW Guardian
EMP

You'll have to try my SA Ultra Compact.

James said I should shoot a 5" 1911 homie. Check your list and tell me what I missed. :tongueout:

69Charger
07-26-2011, 21:01
Ooooorah! Outfrickinstanding! :thumbsup:
Thanks. Semper Fi all the way.
Never had a bad encounter when sporting this holster. Just good feedback. Had groups of our local LEOs come over and have nice conversations with me also, during our 4th of July freedom fair. My home town is Open Carry friendly when it comes to an OLD Man and his 1911. :)
Dave

Hokie1911
07-26-2011, 21:04
Thanks. Semper Fi all the way.
Never had a bad encounter when sporting this holster. Just good feedback. Had groups of our local LEOs come over and have nice conversations with me also, during our 4th of July freedom fair. My home town is Open Carry friendly when it comes to an OLD Man and his 1911. :)
Dave

That's awesome. Thanks for your service, sir. :thumbsup:

knedrgr
07-26-2011, 21:07
James said I should shoot a 5" 1911 homie. Check your list and tell me what I missed. :tongueout:

Actually, as I'd read James' comment, he was telling you to try a 3" 1911 in 45ACP. So you can just wash my balls. :tongueout:

Like I said my SA UC is close with it being 3.5" barrel.

Hokie1911
07-26-2011, 21:08
Actually, as I'd read James' comment, he was telling you to try a 3" 1911 in 45ACP. So you can just wash my balls. :tongueout:

Like I said my SA UC is close with it being 3.5" barrel.

I re-read that too after I typed that and realized that as well. :rofl::rofl::rofl:

jrs93accord
07-27-2011, 01:48
Thanks. Semper Fi all the way.
Never had a bad encounter when sporting this holster. Just good feedback. Had groups of our local LEOs come over and have nice conversations with me also, during our 4th of July freedom fair. My home town is Open Carry friendly when it comes to an OLD Man and his 1911. :)
Dave

I wish that Florida would hurry up and catch up to most of the other States and approve the open carry law. We almost had it this year, but it was amended mid-stream.

Your carry rig is definitely an attention getter. It is really sharp looking. Nice work.

hfdg26
07-27-2011, 06:01
Don't do it man. 1911s are addictive and could ruin your life. Take on a second job, get a divorce, and move into a shanty far removed from society then by one.


yes, I'm anticipating that.....

But I still need to get the quad rails, optics, flashlight, 10 more mags, and 5,000 rounds of ammo for my AR I got over the winter!!! :rofl:

hfdg26
07-27-2011, 06:04
Full size Open carry for me.
Dave
http://i697.photobucket.com/albums/vv339/69Charger123/P7026826.jpg

Thank you for your service :patriot::patriot:

woodrowNC
07-28-2011, 23:10
As the title says I'm strongly considering getting a 1911. I have little to no experience with the 1911. I shot 8 rounds through a Taurus 1911, that's it. That's my experience. I have a buddy that is selling his Colt Defender and I got bit by the bug. But I want to do my research before I jump in and buy something. His Defender was purchased in '02. And from what I read online is that Colt's don't like 230gr JHP. Which I'd what I want for personal defense. I read you have to run 185gr. FMJ. Is this true? Does the commander have the same issues? This is a MAJOR sticking point with me and getting a colt. Would a newer gun be better in this case? Do Springfields and Kimbers have the same problems? I know I'm asking a lot of questions, but I'm just trying to start out in the right direction. Thanks.

i have a new agent that feeds anything. that said, i run 185's for the velocity out of the 3 in barrel. i think problems with colts 3in models are overrated. do a search and read the happy owners comments. can't speak for their older models, but they seem to have solved cyclic issues on their newer 3 inchers. love mine. never faltered. i'm colts number 1 fan, but if it didn't work, i'd say so.

woodrowNC
07-28-2011, 23:22
People are often set in their ways, its not surprising for someone who didnt have luck with something when they first attempted, to brush it off as impossible, or not worth it.

Are you saying all these 3" and 3.5" guns from springfield, kimber, colt, sti, etc, just shouldnt run ? Because someone said they arent workable, because they werent able to figure things out, and wrote it off instead of fixing the problem ?

Vickers, Yam, don't like 3 inchers. so what. many have them, have no issues, and love them, me included. colt especially seems to have the 3 in figured out. as for accuracy, they're not intended for 25 yd bullseye competition, hence the new agents trench sight.

Z28ricer
07-28-2011, 23:42
Vickers, Yam, don't like 3 inchers. so what. many have them, have no issues, and love them, me included. colt especially seems to have the 3 in figured out. as for accuracy, they're not intended for 25 yd bullseye competition, hence the new agents trench sight.

Precisely, plenty of people around have 3", 3.5" 1911s that work awesome, and like you said, im not looking for competition with my little 1911, i'm looking for self defense, and mine has already proven it will keep me safe, so i've got no issues suggesting the same for someone else.