Government actions in a SHTF scenario? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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UneasyRider
07-30-2011, 11:50
So the SHTF big time. Let's say that a comet strikes in the Indian Ocean and the resulting waves destroy much of the worlds coastlines. The extreme heat of the comet causes non stop heavy rain that lasts for 6 weeks and destroys all of the crops that are planted, here in the U.S. it's July 8th so our harvest will not exist. Mudslides have filled rivers diverting them in some cases and wiping out bridges with debris in others.

What actions do you think that the government would take to ensure the continuation of the United States and it's citizens?

G29Reload
07-30-2011, 13:01
They'd deploy the .mil where locals couldnt hack it.

I doubt 8 weeks of rain would destroy everything, rice crops sure as heck would survive. Heavy damage, but hey. We'd recover.

They'd raid all their nuke recovery assets to get MREs passed out where needed, shoot looters, impose martial law where necessary.

Me, I'd hang out at home and listen to the radio.

Javelin
07-30-2011, 13:02
In a SHTF .gov historically tends to become public enemy.

kirgi08
07-30-2011, 13:40
tagged.

Black Smoke Trail
07-30-2011, 14:05
The government would not do much if anything immediately productive. Pretty much what the NOLA PD did during Katrina would be my speculation. I agree with the above the government would b enemey #1 or #2 later on when they likely start confiscating resources, arms, and ammo.

ancient_serpent
07-30-2011, 14:35
In your given scenario (I am assuming that much infrastructure is left intact further inland) I would assume the following:
-full National Guard, Reserve call up and deployment
-Martial law in urban areas, curfew
-formation of camps for displaced persons
-formation of detention facilities for displaced criminals along with those brought in by local and Federal forces (looters etc)
-medical treament facilities at the same
-seizure of any major food stuff, fuel, etc reserves
-if the flooding affects D.C., I would expect a relocation of the seat of government
-Possible border closures
I'm sure I'm overlooking a lot, but I think the short list I made includes likely actions.

UneasyRider
07-30-2011, 16:01
In your given scenario (I am assuming that much infrastructure is left intact further inland)...


That's right, inland 6 weeks of 24/7 heavy as you have ever seen it rain would cause a lot of flooding, mudslides and debris surging through river waters taking out a lot of bridges and the like. No crops in the ground survive. (To provide details to the scenario).

pugman
07-30-2011, 17:13
So the SHTF big time. Let's say that a comet strikes in the Indian Ocean and the resulting waves destroy much of the worlds coastlines. The extreme heat of the comet causes non stop heavy rain that lasts for 6 weeks and destroys all of the crops that are planted, here in the U.S. it's July 8th so our harvest will not exist. Mudslides have filled rivers diverting them in some cases and wiping out bridges with debris in others.

What actions do you think that the government would take to ensure the continuation of the United States and it's citizens?

Seriously none.

Chicago recently received 8" of rain in a few hours; parts of Iowa on 6/22-6/23/10 received 10-16" of rain in a day (I remember it specifically since where I live about 150 miles north received 8" of rain on the 24th)

If we use your numbers for duration of heavy rain nonstop for 6 weeks most areas of the U.S could conservatively receive 40-80' of rain (at .5-1" per hour which frankly isn't that much). Even if we say 10' of rain during this period dams are breaking everywhere (think Minot, North Dakota several weeks ago where 12,000 homes were lost), the TVA would be completely destroyed as would all the cities along the river, etc.

At this point the government would take a "save ourselves" attitude or at the very least save who we can where we are at.

Considering its a comet, it would be difficult if not impossible to keep quiet..the government would have a difficult time keeping order before it hits.

On the upside, at least I could quit the job I hate so much :supergrin:

TangoFoxtrot
08-03-2011, 04:01
So the SHTF big time. Let's say that a comet strikes in the Indian Ocean and the resulting waves destroy much of the worlds coastlines. The extreme heat of the comet causes non stop heavy rain that lasts for 6 weeks and destroys all of the crops that are planted, here in the U.S. it's July 8th so our harvest will not exist. Mudslides have filled rivers diverting them in some cases and wiping out bridges with debris in others.

What actions do you think that the government would take to ensure the continuation of the United States and it's citizens?


Suppositly a plan goes into effect called C.O.G ( continuity of government) If and when the President, Vice President and other major government players may be killed in a SHTF senario. This C.O.G plan gathers a group of scientists, engineers, medical doctors, and other planners to restart government and get a handle on the situiation....now whether that will happen....who knows....maybe that budget was cut too.:upeyes:

cyrsequipment
08-03-2011, 05:18
-Possible border closures


They can't close the border NOW, you think they'll have the resources to do so if there is a global catastrophy?

bdcochran
08-03-2011, 06:16
What actions do you think that the government would take to ensure the continuation of the United States and it's citizens?
__________________

Al Gore would announce that it was a result of global warming.

Senator Schumer would attribute the problems to the Bush tax cuts.

Barak Obama would blame it on George Bush and announce it was time to build the country's infrastructure and generate jobs.

The bottom line is that you are on your own. Your government will do nothing.

kirgi08
08-03-2011, 06:26
Pretty much.'08.

UneasyRider
08-03-2011, 06:28
They can't close the border NOW, you think they'll have the resources to do so if there is a global catastrophy?

They can close the border any time that they want. They just don't want to.

kirgi08
08-03-2011, 06:33
Bingo,they want all those "votes" streaming in.Never mind those types that will detonate bombs ect in this nation.'08.

cyrsequipment
08-03-2011, 08:10
They can close the border any time that they want. They just don't want to.

I agree they could do a LOT more but even after 9/11 when the border was "closed", it wasn't even remotely locked down.

Our border with Mexico is massive and we can't patrol every inch of it. And it is still a fraction of the size of our border with Canada and our water borders...

wildcat455
08-03-2011, 08:34
What actions do you think that the government would take to ensure the continuation of the United States and it's citizens?

All the WRONG ones.

I fully expect things to get worse after a catastrophe than they were before or during the catastrophe.

I have ZERO faith my rights as a citizen and an individual TO JUST SURVIVE let alone my rights as outlined in the COTUS actually matter to ANYONE in charge of our Government. I'll even go as far to say my rights TO SURVIVE or as outlined in the COTUS do not matter to a great percentage of my fellow Americans on a GOOD day, let alone in a tragedy. The evidence of this is there, but you have to wake up and open your eyes to see it.

The situation (Good times or SHTF) is irrelevant. How the Government or we as individuals respond, (Daily or in crisis) is not irrelevant.

In my estimation, the current Government's PRIMARY concern is not for the survival and well being of their citizens, it is only for the survival and well being of themselves individually and as an entity. Preserving their power to rule is job #1, everything else is secondary. Now, if DECENT people were in charge, ruling a DECENT society of people, that wouldn't be so bad.

It's not hard to see where any individual or their rights fit into that.
Even if we perish, they still have themselves to govern. To those in power, all is not lost.

I don't believe the problem is the Government. The problem is the PEOPLE in it. As a society, we alone are collectively and individually to blame for allowing both our Government and ourselves to become warped into what we are today.
We collectively and individually ALLOWED it to happen, therefore, we have no one to blame but ourselves. (Myself included.)

Our ORIGINAL system of government (as intended by the founders and outlined by the COTUS, NOT what we have today, obviously) was a good system, created by decent people with strong moral fiber.

Bilbo Bagins
08-03-2011, 10:58
Actually the running theory I have heard is if a large comet or meteor hits an ocean it will throw billions of gallons of sea water, including elements like chlorine and bromine into the ozone layer, which through chemical reactions strip away the ozone.

Its one of the theories why the dinosaurs was wiped off of the planet. The Meteor that hit the Yucatan, would have killed life within the blast radius, but the intense UV radiation would have killed or made sterile exposed plants and animals worldwide.

The animals that would have been more protected were burrowing animals. As the Ozone layer recovered and the UV worked its way to normal, animals with fur, feathers, and scales may have had added protection, then dinosaurs.

If a comet hit the India ocean we may have the same problem. Crops would wither on the vine, and livestock out in the open fields would die. If we had ample notification, Americans might be able to prep for it. If not those who stay in their basement or bunker and have enough food and water to cover them until the ozone layer comes back would survive.

http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/43996

I would assume just like a nuke attack, they would hussle key politicians to bunkers for government continuity

jellis11
08-03-2011, 11:56
I just wanna keep my guns, my wife, my kid, my dog, and my nintendo 64 and Goldeneye. Maybe GT should have a few meeting places where we could all meet up and start a rebuilding colony for ourselves.

emt1581
08-03-2011, 19:21
I just wanna keep my guns, my wife, my kid, my dog, and my nintendo 64 and Goldeneye. Maybe GT should have a few meeting places where we could all meet up and start a rebuilding colony for ourselves.

Nice avatar. To this day I still remember the code for 30 lives... up up down down left right left right b a b a start...or select start if you want two players... takes me back to the "Nintendo Power" days. Speaking of Nintendo, I have to get mine from my parents and hook it up in my living room! :supergrin:

I don't need N64, but I'm with you on the other stuff. As far as a rebuilding colony...no thanks. I'll take care of mine, you take care of yours and if we happen to meet somewhere, cool. I've met a bunch of GTers...good people for the most part. I've met mostly lurkers though.

As for the government during SHTF situations... I've got more faith that a Leprechaun will ride a Unicorn across the White House lawn than I've got in our government to conduct themselves appropriately and effectively during a SHTF.

-Emt1581

TangoFoxtrot
08-04-2011, 02:52
Actually the running theory I have heard is if a large comet or meteor hits an ocean it will throw billions of gallons of sea water, including elements like chlorine and bromine into the ozone layer, which through chemical reactions strip away the ozone.

Its one of the theories why the dinosaurs was wiped off of the planet. The Meteor that hit the Yucatan, would have killed life within the blast radius, but the intense UV radiation would have killed or made sterile exposed plants and animals worldwide.

The animals that would have been more protected were burrowing animals. As the Ozone layer recovered and the UV worked its way to normal, animals with fur, feathers, and scales may have had added protection, then dinosaurs.

If a comet hit the India ocean we may have the same problem. Crops would wither on the vine, and livestock out in the open fields would die. If we had ample notification, Americans might be able to prep for it. If not those who stay in their basement or bunker and have enough food and water to cover them until the ozone layer comes back would survive.

http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/43996

I would assume just like a nuke attack, they would hussle key politicians to bunkers for government continuity

Who the hell wants to live after that???

UneasyRider
08-04-2011, 09:55
Who the hell wants to live after that???

My grandmother once said to me "You know who wants to live to be 90?" and I answered "Who Nana?" and she said "Someone who is 89."

Anyway to answer your question, "me".

kirgi08
08-04-2011, 10:06
Life is variable,death isn't.'08.

Catshooter
08-04-2011, 10:09
When you're young, getting old is dreaded.

When you're old, getting older doesn't look all that bad.


Cat

barbedwiresmile
08-04-2011, 15:47
Generally speaking, "Government" is not your friend in SHTF. This becomes more true the more centralized (the further removed) gov't is: city, county, state, etc.

Commander_Zero
08-04-2011, 15:57
What actions do you think that the government would take to ensure the continuation of the United States and it's citizens?

Historically, (and hysterically) the .gov has been more interested in continuance of government rather than continuance of citizens.

Aceman
08-04-2011, 17:10
I really don't care. My goal is to be able to take care of myself. If they can help - bonus. But I won't be expecting much.

Aceman
08-04-2011, 17:12
Historically, (and hysterically) the .gov has been more interested in continuance of government rather than continuance of citizens.

Yeah - that whole debt ceiling thing really gave me that impression. Well, maybe they will figure it out when i don't vote republican or democrat next season....

See how they like it when their SHTF.

UneasyRider
08-04-2011, 17:23
Yeah - that whole debt ceiling thing really gave me that impression. Well, maybe they will figure it out when i don't vote republican or democrat next season....

See how they like it when their SHTF.

I would like very much to do the same thing but just can't to waste my vote... right now I am at least voting against some of them.

barbedwiresmile
08-04-2011, 17:42
I really don't care. My goal is to be able to take care of myself. If they can help - bonus. But I won't be expecting much.

Therein lies the rub. We would love to simply be left alone. But gov't isn't very good at that. As I said: your #1 priority in prepping should be how to deal with "government". They will be your biggest adversary to self-sufficiency.

emt1581
08-04-2011, 20:30
Therein lies the rub. We would love to simply be left alone. But gov't isn't very good at that. As I said: your #1 priority in prepping should be how to deal with "government". They will be your biggest adversary to self-sufficiency.

That's the problem. The individual cannot deal with the government. Society can as a whole but not the individual.

Think of everything you would do to be self-sufficient from Joe Bad Guy and Suzy Have Not...now try it with the government.

With Joe and Suzy laying low and maybe a pistol should do you just fine so long as you have enough food/water/etc. for you and yours. However, the government has enough power that they can forcibly take whatever they want...from the individual. Try that with more than a state or two and they probably wouldn't do to well so long as pretty much all citizens resisted.

But the goverment has created it's own insurance policy within the entitlement class. These are people that are so used to working within the governments parameters and taking everything they can from the government they will pretty much do whatever they are asked to so long as they don't need to work and will still get free everything. Only downside it, other than their 7 foot wide screen tv and their ghettofied civic or BMW, they don't have much in the way of supplies.

-Emt1581

UneasyRider
08-05-2011, 07:30
But the goverment has created it's own insurance policy within the entitlement class. These are people that are so used to working within the governments parameters and taking everything they can from the government they will pretty much do whatever they are asked to so long as they don't need to work and will still get free everything. Only downside it, other than their 7 foot wide screen tv and their ghettofied civic or BMW, they don't have much in the way of supplies.

-Emt1581

I agree, there are a lot of people who are going to cry foul if TSHTF when it comes to prepping and our stuff. What's the first rule of survival club? Yes, but I don't play that game... I would like to get as many people on board as possible.

Aceman
08-05-2011, 10:02
I would like very much to do the same thing but just can't to waste my vote... right now I am at least voting against some of them.

And that's EXACTLY what they want. As long as you are voting for the lesser of two evils, evil still wins.

I have hit the point where voting for losers is voting for losers and a waste period.

I'm getting on with being part of the solution - not pro-longing the problem. Institutions and incumbents DEPEND on your thinking to maintain the status quo. when things don't get significantly better, remember that.

Aceman
08-05-2011, 10:06
But the goverment has created it's own insurance policy within the entitlement class. These are people that are so used to working within the governments parameters and taking everything they can from the government they will pretty much do whatever they are asked to so long as they don't need to work and will still get free everything. Only downside it, other than their 7 foot wide screen tv and their ghettofied civic or BMW, they don't have much in the way of supplies.
-Emt1581

That is such an unbelievably weak argument. The key factor of that "entitlement" class is generally laziness. There aren't likely to get up to work OR save their own backsides in SHTF.

What % of the population do you really think that is? Seriously? Get a clue man.

The REAL enitilement class is rich corporate leaders, banks, and the middle class baby boomer Social security and Medicaid/care users who bought SUV's and Big screens instead of saving. They can read and they can vote. That's the entitlement class. Welfare isn't a flea on a gnatt's ass compared to them.

B.Reid
08-05-2011, 11:03
:wow:

cyrsequipment
08-05-2011, 11:37
That is such an unbelievably weak argument. The key factor of that "entitlement" class is generally laziness. There aren't likely to get up to work OR save their own backsides in SHTF.

What % of the population do you really think that is? Seriously? Get a clue man.

The REAL enitilement class is rich corporate leaders, banks, and the middle class baby boomer Social security and Medicaid/care users who bought SUV's and Big screens instead of saving. They can read and they can vote. That's the entitlement class. Welfare isn't a flea on a gnatt's ass compared to them.

What kind of twisted warped mind equates someone who WORKS with entitlement? :shocked:

What group of people are the first ones to riot when they get a chance (I'm not talking about race riots, think about when a sports team wins or loses, and think about the protest groups). Those people WILL throw a tantrum if their checks get cut off or (God forbid) someone makes them go to work to earn a living....

Somone who was stupid and didn't save money is one thing, but you made a major leap to entitlement, I'm guessing that you have no idea what the word means, or you just don't care and decided to throw it out hoping no one would notice...:upeyes:

Do you realize that over 45% of the population in this country pays 0 federal income tax?

My God, how does someone with access to the truth become so friggin blind to it?

fourdeuce2
08-05-2011, 11:51
There's a book on the subject called The Day After World War III, by Edward Zuckermann. Interesting book, filled with actual government plans for TSHTF. A real eye-opener for anybody who thinks the government is there "for the people".:rofl:

jellis11
08-05-2011, 12:04
This whole government thing. Kinda seems like it's just a way to keep rich people rich for doing little to no work...


...going to play Hogan's Alley, I'll be back

G29Reload
08-05-2011, 12:32
A major compelling interest in a SHTF/TEOTWAWKI is to avoid all government contact at all costs.

Stay out of any refugee camp unless you're completely destitute and without means.

If you're in their system, you have to follow their rules and be under their control. Plus you'll be packed in with others of unknown quantity. Do not fall in with any mob, or move with any crowd. Try and stay independent at all costs and keep freedom of movement and to survive on your own land or place you consider safe.

UneasyRider
08-05-2011, 13:45
And that's EXACTLY what they want. As long as you are voting for the lesser of two evils, evil still wins.

I have hit the point where voting for losers is voting for losers and a waste period.

I'm getting on with being part of the solution - not pro-longing the problem. Institutions and incumbents DEPEND on your thinking to maintain the status quo. when things don't get significantly better, remember that.

That would lead to 4 more years of Obama IMHO.

I like to vote for the person who will tax me and tell me what to do the least. If everyone did that sooner or later politicians would be fighting over who was the cheapest with our money and who passed the fewest laws.

Cavalry Doc
08-05-2011, 18:48
And that's EXACTLY what they want. As long as you are voting for the lesser of two evils, evil still wins.

I have hit the point where voting for losers is voting for losers and a waste period.

I'm getting on with being part of the solution - not pro-longing the problem. Institutions and incumbents DEPEND on your thinking to maintain the status quo. when things don't get significantly better, remember that.

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p158/CavalryDoc/lesser-1.jpg


I'll agree that voting for losers is a waste. Which, in the current state of affairs, RP resides.


There is no perfect candidate. There never will be one. Considering the opposition still has a right to vote, the only real strategy that will work will be voting against the worst candidate. McCain would have been a disaster, but less of a disaster than Barry. The RP vote and third party vote didn't even reach close to the margin of victory. That would seem to argue against running another centrist RINO by the republicans. The primary is where the real battle is, if you want a conservative or a libertarian candidate.

If RP wins the republican nomination, I'm voting for him. He would also be a disaster, but would be far better than a Barry second term, or a Hillary first term.

I'm pretty sure that I do not love any of the candidates yet named as even considering a run, but I dislike quite a few.

It's not time for a hail mary. We are on our own 10 yard line, and first down is the best plan.

Aceman
08-05-2011, 19:08
What kind of twisted warped mind equates someone who WORKS with entitlement? :shocked:

What group of people are the first ones to riot when they get a chance (I'm not talking about race riots, think about when a sports team wins or loses, and think about the protest groups). Those people WILL throw a tantrum if their checks get cut off or (God forbid) someone makes them go to work to earn a living....

Somone who was stupid and didn't save money is one thing, but you made a major leap to entitlement, I'm guessing that you have no idea what the word means, or you just don't care and decided to throw it out hoping no one would notice...:upeyes:

Do you realize that over 45% of the population in this country pays 0 federal income tax?

My God, how does someone with access to the truth become so friggin blind to it?

How many people do you think it takes to equal one GE? Who, by the way, paid no taxes this season...

UneasyRider
08-05-2011, 19:14
How many people do you think it takes to equal one GE? Who, by the way, paid no taxes this season...

If they don't earn any income in the U.S. they don't have to. Our best bet is to make it attractive for them to do business here.

B.Reid
08-05-2011, 19:15
Voting for a third party gave us Bill Clinton.

Aceman
08-05-2011, 19:15
That would lead to 4 more years of Obama IMHO.

I like to vote for the person who will tax me and tell me what to do the least. If everyone did that sooner or later politicians would be fighting over who was the cheapest with our money and who passed the fewest laws.

Well - that's an interesting point. So basically, all I have to do is say I'll tax you less and you'll vote for me? Cool.

Reality is reality. What needs, or can be done, is what needs to be done or the truth. who will tax you less is wishful thinking and a head in the sand.

Here is reality: We are OUT. we need to MAKE more and spend less. Odds are that taxes need to go up, AND spending down. Carefully no doubt...

I agree that immediately - taxes are a bad idea (along with dumbass wars against voodoo sham villains like Taliban and Saddam). Step one - get business rolling, step two, get tax structure right.

But anyone that gets up on a podium and says it can be fixed without pain and grief and sorrow across the board is a liar. So vote for sunshine and lollipos and unicorns. They will ALL tax you more and waste your money unless you can find someone who states the problem, the reasons for it, and the solutions. You probably won't vote them because you won't like what they said.

People never like to hear eat less and exercise more. In the end - it's the only solution.

Aceman
08-05-2011, 19:17
If they don't earn any income in the U.S. they don't have to. Our best bet is to make it attractive for them to do business here.

I won't disagree that corporate tax in the US is an effing nightmare as well. This is one of the most expsnsive place to own a business period - in the whole world. But that doesn't explain jack about GE would file a zero return with a bajillion in profit....

The system is effed. And the people/parties there now made it that way - or are responsible for not changing it.

Aceman
08-05-2011, 19:18
Voting for a third party gave us Bill Clinton.

Not bringing a third party in for the win brought us where we are: Insanity - doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

Like I said - dems/repubs, Reagan/Clinton, Clinton/Bush, Bush/Obama. shepherds and Wolves. doesn't matter. I'm the one who is getting eaten.

Gotta break the pattern. For everyone who bought in - if it makes you happy to have someone to blame great. I'm a consultant and see this inside companies all the time. This group says that one was to blame. That group says this one effed it up. Bottom line is - and this has been EVERY time I have seen it. They were both effing up, and the whole place got screwed because of it.

Back to SHTF. Everyone's S stinks. Some people get a goal of putting a good latrine in place and dealing with waste properly. Others argue about it while it piles up. Which do you think we have?

Cavalry Doc
08-05-2011, 20:39
Not bringing a third party in for the win brought us where we are: Insanity - doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

Like I said - dems/repubs, Reagan/Clinton, Clinton/Bush, Bush/Obama. shepherds and Wolves. doesn't matter. I'm the one who is getting eaten.

Gotta break the pattern. For everyone who bought in - if it makes you happy to have someone to blame great. I'm a consultant and see this inside companies all the time. This group says that one was to blame. That group says this one effed it up. Bottom line is - and this has been EVERY time I have seen it. They were both effing up, and the whole place got screwed because of it.

Back to SHTF. Everyone's S stinks. Some people get a goal of putting a good latrine in place and dealing with waste properly. Others argue about it while it piles up. Which do you think we have?

Too Bad we can't press the buttons on our PS3's and MAKE the world right. Torques me off too.

[/sarcasm]

You're not being eaten. That is hyperbole.

"Everyone's S stinks." No argument there. Even the pretend libertarian fiscal conservatives that realize they can't win, so "pop smoke" and head back to their home turf to secure their lucrative guvment job."

The system is not perfect. There isn't a better one. So, I'm sticking it out in the good ol' USA.

We will not fix anything overnight. Not possible. But just like the socialists and ACLU fellows, we can use incrementalism to our advantage. Begin the long slow trudge back to prosperity. The most conservative/libertarian candidate is the person to back in the primaries. In the General Election, I'm voting for the guy/gal most likely to beat the socialists. Barry getting another term, or Hillary getting 4 years in the white house is not an acceptable outcome.

Aceman
08-05-2011, 22:13
I HATE that statement - "There ISN'T a better system"

The thing is - and this is what my job is all about - there is almost ALWAYS a better way to do it. All that sort of thinking does is help maintain the status quo.

Perfect example: Healthcare. France takes names, and kicks ass. End of story. But we make up every BS excuse in the universe to not work towards implementing that system. It costs less, and does more, bottom line.

The US Legal system is another great example. we very rarely change it - and then very little...even though it was invented pre-camera! It is soooo anti-guilty that large numbers of guilty go free, to commit more (sometimes atrocious) and innocent people still get incarcerated (or worse). It CAN be done better. Maybe you don't know how - but it usually doesn't take much to figure out.

You would have been one of those people that said "We can't EVER go faster than the speed of sound" or "You could NEVER make a plastic pistol that works"

UneasyRider
08-06-2011, 06:05
Well - that's an interesting point. So basically, all I have to do is say I'll tax you less and you'll vote for me? Cool.

Reality is reality. What needs, or can be done, is what needs to be done or the truth. who will tax you less is wishful thinking and a head in the sand.

Here is reality: We are OUT. we need to MAKE more and spend less. Odds are that taxes need to go up, AND spending down. Carefully no doubt...



As one who lived through the Regan tax cuts from 70% to 30% in the 80's led to a long economic boom and increased revenue. I agree with you that we need to spend less and that able bodied people need to work for a living and the government needs to cut jobs and programs in a huge way.

I won't disagree that corporate tax in the US is an effing nightmare as well. This is one of the most expsnsive place to own a business period - in the whole world. But that doesn't explain jack about GE would file a zero return with a bajillion in profit....

The system is effed. And the people/parties there now made it that way - or are responsible for not changing it.

What you are missing I believe is that even though GE is a U.S. based company the law says you pay taxes for what you earn in the U.S. not what you earn and leave in foreign countries. Change the law and tax U.S. companies on all income if you want, but see how long they remain U.S. companies... See a lot of U.S. flagged ships these days?

kirgi08
08-06-2011, 06:13
Were bailing UE,you know howta get in touch.'08.

Ruble Noon
08-06-2011, 06:45
Voting for a third party gave us Bill Clinton.

Or

Voting for the lesser of two evils gave us Bill Clinton.