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apphunter
07-31-2011, 11:20
Our Chief is changing our policy to allow for personally owned rifles to be carried in the car. I already have http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product4_750001_750051_765652_-1_757785_757784_757784_ProductDisplayErrorView_Y but I would like to make some changes and would like some suggestions. I would like to add an eotech, front quad rail, a vertical forend (I'm considering this http://www.grippod.com/gpsle.html ) a light system and flip up front iron sights. I need suggestions on which models and manufacturers from people who actually have some of these items. I will actually use it on patrol. Mounting it in the car hasn't been addressed yet but I'm thinking that they will be carried in a soft case in the trunk if that makes any difference. Thanks in advance for the suggestions.

JD

lndshark
07-31-2011, 11:34
:popcorn:

...saving this thread for personal research...

pal2511
07-31-2011, 11:38
Look at the magpul angled foregrip. I do not personally have one but I know a few who do and they love them.

pal2511
07-31-2011, 11:39
You might want to look at the aimpoint patrol optics pro. Its about $400 with a mount. Are you going to get a free float or drop in quad rail?

msu_grad_121
07-31-2011, 11:53
Are you married to that A1 front sight? If at all possible, I'd look into the GG&G, MI or Troy Battle Sights. For the record, I've heard good things aobut the Troy "diamond" sights, but never used them. Of course, if you don't mind that sight, you don't have to stick with it, but personally I hate them. Just my .02.

I'm a fan of the Hogue pistol grip, heard good things about the Magpul furniture, and definitely get some kind of a sling. I've used 3 point slings with great results, but I know the single point slings are all the rage right now. Keep us posted!

Oh, and pics should be forthcoming!

Bodyarmorguy
07-31-2011, 11:58
You might want to look at the aimpoint patrol optics pro. Its about $400 with a mount. Are you going to get a free float or drop in quad rail?

A great choice if operating on a budget, I looked at this optic and it looks great. I have run several different aimpoints and EoTech's, with and w/o magnifiers, etc. I recently picked up an Aimpoint Micro T1, you can look at the Micro H1 if you don't need/want the NV option. This optic is light weight, a managable 4MOA dot, mounted on a tall Larue base.

Keep in mind the KISS principal. You already have a great rifle there, don't over ninja-fy it. Based on the link you posted up to your rifle...I would only look at adding the Aimpoint PRO, Micro H1 or T1 (your choice) and a white light that you can mount on the front sight tower or to the existing handguard. These look promising though I have not tried one yet http://www.impactweaponscomponents.com/category/mount-n-slot/light-mount/ .

Don't care for the grip-pod...too heavy and its a patrol rifle not a sniper rifle, why bother with the bipod....MHO.

pal2511
07-31-2011, 12:14
I agree you won't need the bipod. Get an afg or nothing. They have been shooting the ar-15 for decades without a front grip

old_pigpen
07-31-2011, 12:53
When I started customing my AR carbine, I added a red dot on an extended mount for cowitnessing, vertical grip, railed forend, light, laser, single point sling mount and a clamp that allowed me to clamp two magazines together.

However, all that stuff made it VERY heavy. I'm down to what I believe is the minimum I need, which is a light, red dot, rear BUIS, single point sling and dual magazine clamp. The extra magazine clamp does add some weight, but I like having another 30 rounds immediately available with my carbine.

Keep in mind the KISS principal.

Amen!! Everyone's needs are going to be different. Pick the stuff you really need on there (not the nice to haves.)

OFCJIM40
07-31-2011, 12:56
This is all my opinion:
-Leave the front sight. Don't mess around with having to change out the gas block, etc., there's better places to have your money spent. You don't even notice it when using an optic.
- Pass on the GripPod. I got one on a cheap deal and I'd sell it in return for cheap. It's simply too big. I'd go with a stubby VFG (I have a LaRue FUG but there are many others now) and learn how to use it properly. You don't grip it like a broom stick, it should be used more like a handstop.
-Light. You can get an older SF 6P super cheap now. Then swap out the bulb with the high output Malkoff Devices LED. My whole flashlight setup cost me about $110 and it friggin rocks. Don't spend $300 on a "Scout light", blah blah. Of course buy a good mount.
- I like MagPul products. I put a MOE grip on and a CTR buttstock and both are great. For Forend you can go cheap and also get an MOE. Or get anything made by LaRue, Midwest, Troy, Samson or other good company that floats your boat. I have a drop in Troy that's I've been very happy with.
-Optic, have an Aimpoint T-1 and love it.
-Get a good 2 point sling, I use the VTAC and love it.

Avoid Tapco, AAC or other cheap/Chinese knockoff products.

That should do it.

apphunter
07-31-2011, 13:11
You might want to look at the aimpoint patrol optics pro. Its about $400 with a mount. Are you going to get a free float or drop in quad rail?

what are the differences and is there any advantage of one over the other and what are the cons of each?

boomhower
07-31-2011, 13:22
My suggestions:

Optic: Aimpoint Pro. By far the best option for a budget patrol rifle. I chose it for the price and battery life. For a patrol rifle the ability to leave it on makes it a superior choice over an eotech. Grab the rifle and go, no need to be hunting for buttons to turn it on or worry about the battery being dead.

BUIS: Leave the post and consider a fixed rear. I have a DD fixed rear with a standard post up front. If the SHTF and your optic dies in the middle of a fight you don't want to be flipping button to get your sights up.

Light: I went with a TLR-1S. Price, performance, and weight is why I chose it. When I put all the criteria in it came out as the best choice. I also like that it is much more compact than a standard light with mount.

Rail: Troy drop-in for cheap or Daniel Defense Omega is you have the $.

Grip: Skip the bipod. I am assuming your are a run of the mill patrol officer like I am. You aren't going to be taking 100 yard shots prone other than on the range. Get something compact and light weight. Either a stubby grip of a Larue FUG. Also give the AFG2 a look, skip the first AFG as it screws with light mounts.

Sling: Must have. I strongly suggest a two point sling. Once you add a rail you will have a myriad of mounting options. When it's time to go hands on you don't want you rifle bouncing around on a one point.

My patrol rifle set-up:
Daniel Defense V3 LW
TLR-1S
Aimpoint Pro w/ ADM lower 1/3 mount
FailZero BCG
Geiselle SSA Trigger
Blue Force Gear QD 2 point sling
BattleComp 1.0
TruGlo front sight post
PMAGs

MakeMineA10mm
07-31-2011, 14:09
My three big suggestions:

Pistol grip - I HATE the A2 (or for that matter the original) itteration of the pistol grip. Too small, not shaped right, puts trigger finger at wrong place to manipulate the trigger, IMO. I replace all AR pistol grips with the Ergo Grip.
http://www.precisionweapons.com/cartgenie/Images/Large/Item_Falcon_ErgoGrip_AR.jpg



Sling - I agree 1000% with what was said above about avoiding one-point slings. I use a 3-point Giles Tactical Sling, and recommend it highly. Learn to use it, and it will show you how effective/helpful it is.
Giles Tactical Sling by Winderness Products (http://www.thewilderness.com/storepinnacle/index.php?p=catalog&parent=152&pg=1)




KISS - You don't need 1/3 of all the stuff we're talking about. Long guns serve two purposes in standard law enforcement (as opposed to SWAT or snipers), and those are: Perimeter weapons and a back-up of superior power to take care of the problem that your handgun is not dealing with... A sling and good iron sights is really all you need. A supplemental magazine carrier (like the Redi-Mag) is OK, but a bail-out-bag in the trunk with a couple extra mags will suffice. -- Spend money on ammo and not accessories and actually go out and shoot it a lot. I'd rather have someone with a stock "A1" configuration rifle who knows how to shoot it, than someone with all the gadgets who can't hit the side of a barn...

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_N0ATYOAZojY/TYa8b-_YpII/AAAAAAAAB7E/GDtzY0tmOew/s800/AR15dot6789.jpg

Bodyarmorguy
07-31-2011, 16:22
Avoid Tapco, AAC or other cheap/Chinese knockoff products.

I could be wrong, I was married twice so I know it's happened before, but did you mean CAA?

To build on my earlier post. My personal gun unfortunately under current department policy can't be carried on duty, so I will break down the differences between the two:

Personal gun:
Colt 6933 11.5"
AAC Blackout Flash hider and AAC M4-1000 Suppressor
MagPul CRT Stock
MagPul MIAD Grip
Knight's UVX free float rail
Surefire Scout white light
Tango Down Stubby VFG (used as a handstop)
LaRue QD LT-103 BUIS (Rear), Standard A2 Front Sight Tower
Aimpoint Micro T1 on LaRue tall mount
Vickers Sling mounted on Daniel Defense QD points on buffer tube and rail

Each item has a specific purpose and were chosen for function and light weight. This would most likely be my "Go To" gun for home defense. The M4-1000 making a huge difference with regards to impact on hearing damage should it be discharged in the house.

Work Gun:
Bushmaster XM15E2S
Vickers Sling mounted on the standard collapsable stock and GG&G QD mount on Front Sight Tower
Surefire M500 Handguard/Light

That pushes the limits on mods currently permitted under policy.

CAcop
07-31-2011, 16:36
Start off with a light. There are things like Elzetta or pieces of pic rail that go on the front base.

Then add a sling. I say stay away from three point and single point slings. Vickers and Viking Tactics are the best.

Optics I dislike but if I had to get one it would be one of the old school red dots. The new ones seem kind of tiny. A coworker has one on his SWAT gun and you end up searching for the scope. The bigger older ones just end up in your sight.

My recommendation is to resist the urge to put crap on your gun. Unless you are someone with a big budget or dedicated to spending money on ammo you are better off going with a "substandard" set up on your gun and learning how to shoot it well than pimping out a gun and only shooting it a couple time a year. You will see people like that on the net who only shoot their guns in training classes and never practice what they learned in a class between classes.

OFCJIM40
07-31-2011, 18:24
Lol!!!! Bodyarmorguy, you are correct with CAA. As for me only on my second marriage :whistling:

Top_Shot_31
07-31-2011, 18:38
This.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q362H-xg0ZA

Cochese
07-31-2011, 18:55
Our Chief is changing our policy to allow for personally owned rifles to be carried in the car. I already have --- but I would like to make some changes and would like some suggestions. I would like to add an eotech, front quad rail, a vertical forend. I'm considering a grippod, a light system and flip up front iron sights. I need suggestions on which models and manufacturers from people who actually have some of these items. I will actually use it on patrol. Mounting it in the car hasn't been addressed yet but I'm thinking that they will be carried in a soft case in the trunk if that makes any difference. Thanks in advance for the suggestions.

JD

My favorite rail is the Viking Tactics VTAC handguard.

http://www.vikingtactics.com/handguard.html#

It is the lightest, strongest and cheapest option.

I use an EOTech XPS 3.0.

Lightest and newest technology. Better button placement if you want to run a magnifier.

http://www.eotech-inc.com/products/sights/exps3

Light system, I'd go with a Surefire X2/300 or TLR-1 C4 mounted at 12 o'clock in front of a flip up front sight.

Vertical fore grip, I prefer a Magpul AFG. Personal preference. I used a grip pod for a while and it is NOT practical for a patrol rifle. It is huge, and I didn't deploy it enough to really justify the weight and larger footprint.

AFG is something you need to train a bit with, as it alters the typical stance/grip fielding a patrol rifle but it really is the cat's ass.

Flip up sights, if you want to spend a little money, but a set of Troy's would be nice.

http://troyind.com/battlesights/front-rear-battlesight-sets

Or if you are on a budget, go order some Magpul MBUS.

http://store.magpul.com/prod_detail_list/45


I sold my LMT and assembled a purpose built lightweight duty carbine using these components.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-bO47SuTOCCw/TZMBdKdTYsI/AAAAAAAACso/HaNJ7Ynx07E/s1152/IMAG0006.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-UBVVwvwMSqg/TZMBmOtp3KI/AAAAAAAACso/t9HsR-1Jh_M/s1152/IMAG0004.jpg

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-HkQ_LVjiBYE/TZMAhOMMfdI/AAAAAAAACso/rgy-MI6IDuk/s1152/IMAG0001.jpg

Cochese
07-31-2011, 18:57
Keep in mind, if you want to run a longer rail system for a rifle length sight radius, you will need a low profile gas block.

I only use VLTOR. http://www.vltor.com/gas-blocks.htm

Cochese
07-31-2011, 19:04
Sling: Must have. I strongly suggest a two point sling. Once you add a rail you will have a myriad of mounting options. When it's time to go hands on you don't want you rifle bouncing around on a one point.

IMO, you shouldn't be going "hands on" with a carbine in your possession, unless it is a last resort.

A cover officer(s) should be responsible for arrest/control.

If, in a last resort, I WAS detaining/handcuffing someone while fielding a carbine, I would rather have a single point to keep the gun BEHIND me and out of immediate sight/grasp lunging distance of the BG.

I've had to run/hop fences/blahblah with a patrol rifle and doing anything with a two point is a pain in the ass.

I switched to a single point in 2007 and never looked back.

I'm NOT saying Boomhower is wrong, I just have a different POV. :patriot:

Cochese
07-31-2011, 19:18
Another thing to consider...

That VTAC handguard will allow you to store it in most car racks, in case you guys go with those instead of casing it in the trunk.

Also... if this is your carbine:

http://www.smith-wesson.com/wcsstore/SmWesson2/upload/images/firearms/detail_md/811002_01_md.jpg


...and you are going as cheap as possible, then my suggestion is:

Keep the fixed front sight. (FREE)
Keep the folding rear that's on there. (FREE)
Keep the stock, or buy a Magpul MOE for (FREE/$29)
Keep the grip and file off the separator and stipple it, or get an MOE for (FREE/$29).
Buy a TLR-1C4. The strobe is unnecessary as it is highly unlikely you will EVER field it that way. ($100)
Buy a Magpul MOE handguard and add bits of rail only where you need them. ($29)
Run an AFG or AFG2 under the MOE handguard or skip it altogether. (FREE/$29)
Get a Magpul ASAP sling plate and consider an MS2 sling or a P.I.G MKI sling. ($60-70)
( http://www.skdtac.com/PIG_Drop_Slider_TM_Sling_Mk_1_p/pig.110.htm )

The MS2 will let you decide if you want two point or single point and it is relatively inexpensive. The P.I.G. MKI/II are well built, padded and inexpensive. The I is standard, the II is bungee. Preference.

Here is my HD gun, built off of my wife's Colt 6721.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-76Hzll6egvM/S-228a8A0PI/AAAAAAAACsI/eP9xxugP3Us/s912/2010-05-13%25252009.06.21.jpg

Using the stuff I posted, you can have it ready for patrol for as little as $200, or $300 shipped, replacing stock/grip.

Good luck and KEEP IT SIMPLE!

DaBigBR
07-31-2011, 21:50
I'll agree with the vast majority of what Cochese said. Anywhere that I disagree is personal preference. Here are some of my thoughts:

The number one thing that I will say is that the modularity of the platform is a gift and a curse. You can do all sorts of things with it, but some people seem to think that they just HAVE TO replace everything on a gun. The most important thing that I have learned in the patrol rifle department is that lightweight is king. You're going to lug it way more than you're going to shoot it and even way more than you're going to point it at anyone. Your primary concern should be a lightweight gun with FUNCTIONAL accessories and modifications. If you can't justify every ounce of weight you've added to the gun, don't put it on there. Seriously...a basic carbine with plastic handguards and an inexpensive light mount is fine.

SLING: I prefer an adjustable two point sling, but more because I have found that most of my rifle deployments have included a large amount of standing/walking around and the support and stability that I gain with the two point (VTAC padded) over the single point was an advantage. The single point IMO is far superior for shoulder transitions and for running in and out of a car, but the last time I deployed my rifle was for a search warrant where I wore it to the address in a vehicle and did not find it overly cumbersome.

RAIL and FORE-GRIP: I think that the railed fore-end and foregrip (of any type) are two of the absolutely most overused accessories. There are so many folks out there putting $200 or $300 or more just in those two accessories on a gun and just do not need it. I run a rifle length fore-end on my work gun with the Magpul AFG on the bottom, QD sling mount on one side, and X300 and DD fixed front sight on the top. even so, I think I would be completely happy with plastic handguards and a FSB light mount. The primary benefit to the longer fore end to me is that I can get my support hand closer to the muzzle, and thus control the muzzle and (to use a tired shooting term) "drive the gun." My next AR will probably be a BCM Dissipator if they ever get it to market.

BIPOD: you'll probably never use one on patrol, and you will never use it enough to justify the weight. When I think about the times that I have deployed my rifle, the times that it has been supported by something it's been a fence, a post, or the hood/trunk of a car. In most of those cases, the fore-end was an adequate support and a bipod of any sort would not have been helpful and may have even been cumbersome. If you were going to build a designated perimeter (or DMR) gun I could maybe see it, but given the scenarios and distances for the do-all patrol rifle, I just don't think that a bipod offers a good benefit/weight ratio.

OPTICS AND SIGHTS: You don't NEED an optic, and don't try to convince yourself that you do. They are a tremendous asset, but a lot of shooters do not spend enough time learning their irons. I prefer the EOTech reticule, but the Aimpoint's battery life. The next optic I buy will probably be an Aimpoint PRO, but I will stick with the EOTech on my duty gun. I think that flip sights are the #3 over-used accessory. I run fixed sights on my duty gun with a lower-third cowitness. No springs, levers, or buttons to get in the way. I see no real compelling reason not to use a fixed front as even with a magnified optic, the sight is not a big concern. If you just have to have flip sights, that's fine, but train with them and check zero on them periodically.

LIGHT and MOUNT: Simple...X300 or TLR-1 with a MI FSB mount or a Streamlight Polytac LED in an Elzetta ZFH-1500 mount. I prefer the first, but both options are inexpensive and bright.

MakeMineA10mm
07-31-2011, 23:26
I'll agree with the vast majority of what Cochese said. Anywhere that I disagree is personal preference. Here are some of my thoughts:

The number one thing that I will say is that the modularity of the platform is a gift and a curse. You can do all sorts of things with it, but some people seem to think that they just HAVE TO replace everything on a gun. The most important thing that I have learned in the patrol rifle department is that lightweight is king. You're going to lug it way more than you're going to shoot it and even way more than you're going to point it at anyone. Your primary concern should be a lightweight gun with FUNCTIONAL accessories and modifications. If you can't justify every ounce of weight you've added to the gun, don't put it on there. Seriously...a basic carbine with plastic handguards and an inexpensive light mount is fine.

SLING: I prefer an adjustable two point sling, but more because I have found that most of my rifle deployments have included a large amount of standing/walking around and the support and stability that I gain with the two point (VTAC padded) over the single point was an advantage. The single point IMO is far superior for shoulder transitions and for running in and out of a car, but the last time I deployed my rifle was for a search warrant where I wore it to the address in a vehicle and did not find it overly cumbersome.

RAIL and FORE-GRIP: I think that the railed fore-end and foregrip (of any type) are two of the absolutely most overused accessories. There are so many folks out there putting $200 or $300 or more just in those two accessories on a gun and just do not need it. I run a rifle length fore-end on my work gun with the Magpul AFG on the bottom, QD sling mount on one side, and X300 and DD fixed front sight on the top. even so, I think I would be completely happy with plastic handguards and a FSB light mount. The primary benefit to the longer fore end to me is that I can get my support hand closer to the muzzle, and thus control the muzzle and (to use a tired shooting term) "drive the gun." My next AR will probably be a BCM Dissipator if they ever get it to market.

BIPOD: you'll probably never use one on patrol, and you will never use it enough to justify the weight. When I think about the times that I have deployed my rifle, the times that it has been supported by something it's been a fence, a post, or the hood/trunk of a car. In most of those cases, the fore-end was an adequate support and a bipod of any sort would not have been helpful and may have even been cumbersome. If you were going to build a designated perimeter (or DMR) gun I could maybe see it, but given the scenarios and distances for the do-all patrol rifle, I just don't think that a bipod offers a good benefit/weight ratio.

OPTICS AND SIGHTS: You don't NEED an optic, and don't try to convince yourself that you do. They are a tremendous asset, but a lot of shooters do not spend enough time learning their irons. I prefer the EOTech reticule, but the Aimpoint's battery life. The next optic I buy will probably be an Aimpoint PRO, but I will stick with the EOTech on my duty gun. I think that flip sights are the #3 over-used accessory. I run fixed sights on my duty gun with a lower-third cowitness. No springs, levers, or buttons to get in the way. I see no real compelling reason not to use a fixed front as even with a magnified optic, the sight is not a big concern. If you just have to have flip sights, that's fine, but train with them and check zero on them periodically.

LIGHT and MOUNT: Simple...X300 or TLR-1 with a MI FSB mount or a Streamlight Polytac LED in an Elzetta ZFH-1500 mount. I prefer the first, but both options are inexpensive and bright.

Brilliant!

We don't have patrol rifles authorized, but my go-to personal rifle is my Sig556. I got the one without the rail system on purpose! Think about that! :supergrin:

I took my red-dot off, for the reason Cochise said - it was a small one (came with the gun, and it was cheap anyway, so no loss). I bought the upgrade Iron Sight system (Swiss version of the HK rotary drum sight with correct-height front sight post), and that is what I prefer on the gun. Added the Giles sling and am currently looking at my light options, but that will be IT on this rifle. No other additions.

The Iron Sights are not a problem, at least in daylight. I fired both some military surplus M193 and some cheapo Wolf 223 ammo at 200 yards with the drum turned to the 200 apperture, and got a nice 4-5" group in the 9-10-X rings of a B27 sil. target. Buddy was there with his rifle with an ACOG on it, and his group was about 1" smaller than mine on his B27 at same distance. (He was having a bad day - shoulder problems - he is typically a much better shot than I.) The bottom line though, is that irons work well, as long as you are competent with them. If/When I go to the Carbine Instructor's class, I'll be going with just the irons...

Giles Sling Demo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlX2jHxGFW4)

TXCOPPER
09-12-2011, 20:57
Another thing to consider...

That VTAC handguard will allow you to store it in most car racks, in case you guys go with those instead of casing it in the trunk.

Also... if this is your carbine:

http://www.smith-wesson.com/wcsstore/SmWesson2/upload/images/firearms/detail_md/811002_01_md.jpg


...and you are going as cheap as possible, then my suggestion is:

Keep the fixed front sight. (FREE)
Keep the folding rear that's on there. (FREE)
Keep the stock, or buy a Magpul MOE for (FREE/$29)
Keep the grip and file off the separator and stipple it, or get an MOE for (FREE/$29).
Buy a TLR-1C4. The strobe is unnecessary as it is highly unlikely you will EVER field it that way. ($100)
Buy a Magpul MOE handguard and add bits of rail only where you need them. ($29)
Run an AFG or AFG2 under the MOE handguard or skip it altogether. (FREE/$29)
Get a Magpul ASAP sling plate and consider an MS2 sling or a P.I.G MKI sling. ($60-70)
( http://www.skdtac.com/PIG_Drop_Slider_TM_Sling_Mk_1_p/pig.110.htm )

The MS2 will let you decide if you want two point or single point and it is relatively inexpensive. The P.I.G. MKI/II are well built, padded and inexpensive. The I is standard, the II is bungee. Preference.

Here is my HD gun, built off of my wife's Colt 6721.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-76Hzll6egvM/S-228a8A0PI/AAAAAAAACsI/eP9xxugP3Us/s912/2010-05-13%25252009.06.21.jpg

Using the stuff I posted, you can have it ready for patrol for as little as $200, or $300 shipped, replacing stock/grip.

Good luck and KEEP IT SIMPLE!

Except for color (mine is all black) my rifle looks identical. Oh and I added a pressure switch for the option, using the magpul kit. Great minds they say!


Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

Cochese
09-12-2011, 21:26
Nice. :supergrin:

Agent6-3/8
09-12-2011, 21:35
K.I.S.S


Don't mess with the gas block/ front sight. Add a quality optic of your choice (I like Aimpoint's micro red dots), quad rail (Troy Drop-in is excellent and affordable) or Magpul Moe hand guard and a good light. I'd ditch the stock grip in favor of a Magpul as well. Add a vertical foregrip if you must, but I don't care for them.

Less is more, IMO. I want my patrol rifle to be light and quick handling, not a tricked out swiss army knife that weights more than a M1 Garand. ;)

CJStudent
09-13-2011, 04:04
Except for color (mine is all black) my rifle looks identical. Oh and I added a pressure switch for the option, using the magpul kit. Great minds they say!


Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

I just did something similar for mine (personal, home defense; no mods allowed on work guns, and I haven't been issued one for anything but range time so far anyways). Started as a S&W M&P15 Sport (bought what I could afford at the time), put Magpul MOE stock, pistol grip, and handguards on it (OD Green, just to be different). I've added a Surefire M951 that I had hanging around with the MOE Illumination kit (two rail sections, one regular, one cantilevered, with two mount options for the different kinds of pressure switches), and an MOE foregrip. I'm actually considering taking the VFG off, though; it's more in my way than anything. No optics, fixed iron sights (same OEM sights as what came one it), though I MAY add an Aimpoint PRO on it. MS2 sling on it, slightly modified.

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t258/cjstudent_2007/IMAG0120.jpg

CJStudent
09-13-2011, 04:08
I'll agree with the vast majority of what Cochese said. Anywhere that I disagree is personal preference. Here are some of my thoughts:

The number one thing that I will say is that the modularity of the platform is a gift and a curse. You can do all sorts of things with it, but some people seem to think that they just HAVE TO replace everything on a gun. The most important thing that I have learned in the patrol rifle department is that lightweight is king. You're going to lug it way more than you're going to shoot it and even way more than you're going to point it at anyone. Your primary concern should be a lightweight gun with FUNCTIONAL accessories and modifications. If you can't justify every ounce of weight you've added to the gun, don't put it on there. Seriously...a basic carbine with plastic handguards and an inexpensive light mount is fine.

SLING: I prefer an adjustable two point sling, but more because I have found that most of my rifle deployments have included a large amount of standing/walking around and the support and stability that I gain with the two point (VTAC padded) over the single point was an advantage. The single point IMO is far superior for shoulder transitions and for running in and out of a car, but the last time I deployed my rifle was for a search warrant where I wore it to the address in a vehicle and did not find it overly cumbersome.

RAIL and FORE-GRIP: I think that the railed fore-end and foregrip (of any type) are two of the absolutely most overused accessories. There are so many folks out there putting $200 or $300 or more just in those two accessories on a gun and just do not need it. I run a rifle length fore-end on my work gun with the Magpul AFG on the bottom, QD sling mount on one side, and X300 and DD fixed front sight on the top. even so, I think I would be completely happy with plastic handguards and a FSB light mount. The primary benefit to the longer fore end to me is that I can get my support hand closer to the muzzle, and thus control the muzzle and (to use a tired shooting term) "drive the gun." My next AR will probably be a BCM Dissipator if they ever get it to market.

BIPOD: you'll probably never use one on patrol, and you will never use it enough to justify the weight. When I think about the times that I have deployed my rifle, the times that it has been supported by something it's been a fence, a post, or the hood/trunk of a car. In most of those cases, the fore-end was an adequate support and a bipod of any sort would not have been helpful and may have even been cumbersome. If you were going to build a designated perimeter (or DMR) gun I could maybe see it, but given the scenarios and distances for the do-all patrol rifle, I just don't think that a bipod offers a good benefit/weight ratio.

OPTICS AND SIGHTS: You don't NEED an optic, and don't try to convince yourself that you do. They are a tremendous asset, but a lot of shooters do not spend enough time learning their irons. I prefer the EOTech reticule, but the Aimpoint's battery life. The next optic I buy will probably be an Aimpoint PRO, but I will stick with the EOTech on my duty gun. I think that flip sights are the #3 over-used accessory. I run fixed sights on my duty gun with a lower-third cowitness. No springs, levers, or buttons to get in the way. I see no real compelling reason not to use a fixed front as even with a magnified optic, the sight is not a big concern. If you just have to have flip sights, that's fine, but train with them and check zero on them periodically.

LIGHT and MOUNT: Simple...X300 or TLR-1 with a MI FSB mount or a Streamlight Polytac LED in an Elzetta ZFH-1500 mount. I prefer the first, but both options are inexpensive and bright.

:perfect10:

One of the best, most thorough explanations of what and why that I've seen yet.

CJStudent
09-13-2011, 04:37
And you know, I got to thinking about this. We really ought to have a Patrol Rifle sticky thread on here!

ArmaGlock
09-13-2011, 17:34
IF you are authorized to carry one, I would go with a short barrel rifle. We have always been able to carry a personal rifle. I started with a 16-inch and recently built a 11.5 inch BCM and it has been the best move I've made and well worth the money.

It's lighter and makes it easier to get in and out of my vehicle with my rifle slung and it's easier to drive with it slung. It's also more compact for use in CQB.

If you decide to go with a longer rail, I would have the FSB cut down instead of going with a low profile gas block. And as many others have said, keep it simple. Get a good light and a good optic (Aimpoint is better than Eotech IMHO and from personal experience). The Patrol Rifle Optic from Aimpoint is a hell of a deal.

Here's my current setup:

http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/cc455/armaglock/CIMG6638.jpg

BCM 11.5
Aimpoint Comp C3 in Larue Mount
Vltor Stock
Troy TRX Extreme 11.5
Surefire/Viking Tactics L4 in Impact Weapons Components mount
Levang Linear Compensator
EMDOM Gunslinger Sling