PPCT and Straight Batons [Archive] - Glock Talk

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lndshark
07-31-2011, 13:44
It looks like the powers-that-be are talking no more straight baton usage...again. ASPs are issued and from what I hear, that will be the only impact weapon we'll be able to carry. I'm willing to go to bat (Ha! Ha!...sorry :rofl:) and try to convince my chief to let us maintain our current standard.

A while back someone mentioned in a post that the PPCT (instructor?) manual made reference to straight batons being less likely to cause substantial injury (I'm paraphrasing here...) than an expandable. Does that ring a bell with anyone? Also, and please correct me if I'm wrong, but the PPCT manual makes no differentiation between straight and expandable when it comes to tactics, right?

If someone knows of what I speak and would be willing to send me copies of the information above, I'd greatly appreciate it. PM me for my city email address. Thank you!

razdog76
07-31-2011, 15:34
Additionally, there are a few members here that have had, and witnessed dramatic asp failures because they bend with good hits.

I have not had that happen, and have used it to smash a car window open, but I have been considering replacing it with one of the Peacekeeper batons.

Magicmanmb
07-31-2011, 16:01
I've bent two hitting a heavy bag during training. Get the RCB I put one between blocks and it never bent w/250+ on it extended.

Gangrel
07-31-2011, 17:00
We have had asps bend. We have also had them actually cut tissue (entirely through the skin down to the muscle).

We mandate straight batons be carried in the car at all times. Collapsibles are a secondary option.

rubblerubble
07-31-2011, 18:44
I took ppct instructor in 2009. You are correct the manuel does say that the straight stick is less likely to cause injuries than expandable. The only diffrence between the straight stick and the expandable in training is drawing it. PPCT seems to be big on where you strike not what you strike with.

SAR
07-31-2011, 19:05
Don't know where you are or what types of incidents you have to handle, but we have to have straight sticks available for frequent crowd control and skirmish line situations. If you ever anticipate having crowd control issues, even if you anticipate being called in by other jurisdictions for crowd control, remind your managers that you cannot use ASPs for skirmish lines.

Cochese
07-31-2011, 19:40
I took ppct instructor in 2009. You are correct the manuel does say that the straight stick is less likely to cause injuries than expandable. The only diffrence between the straight stick and the expandable in training is drawing it. PPCT seems to be big on where you strike not what you strike with.

Wife is a PPCT instructor and she concurs.

Magicmanmb
08-01-2011, 13:12
Does anyone have a current copy of the instructors manual they would be willing to loan.
Mine is the original edition like to see what changes if any have been made. SC just officially authorized Koga sticks for pressure point last year, Kubatons in 2000. Trying to get one municipality to convert back to straight sticks. When ASP went on the state list they all dumped pr-24's and batons. All that because the salesman told them they would reduce liability.

Peace Frog
08-01-2011, 13:30
Whichever one cracks heads the best I'm all for you guys using!


Y'all stay safe out there!

Magicmanmb
08-01-2011, 13:38
Whichever one cracks heads the best I'm all for you guys using!


Y'all stay safe out there!

My 60+ y/o round sap cracks the best. Illegal to carry unless you got grandfathered in. I think Pittsburgh still has the flat ones, not sure though.
Haven't been up there for a few years.

Sgt127
08-01-2011, 14:23
We use the philosophy of a stick is a stick is a stick. Straight or collabsible, if you are certified for a stick, game on. Since the targets are the same, and, certainly the no hit areas are the same, I don't see how it matters.

lndshark
08-01-2011, 17:02
We use the philosophy of a stick is a stick is a stick. Straight or collabsible, if you are certified for a stick, game on. Since the targets are the same, and, certainly the no hit areas are the same, I don't see how it matters.

That's what I've been trying to explain...I think it's, sadly, a public image thing (which REALLY helps us do our jobs).

lndshark
08-01-2011, 17:03
Does anyone have a current copy of the instructors manual they would be willing to loan.

x2 please :supergrin:

Vigilant
08-01-2011, 18:00
I'm certified with straight baton only, so I don't speak from experience. Even so, it seems that you couldn't make much of a jab with an ASP. Am I wrong?

Call me old-fashioned, but there's just something about the sound of seasoned Hickory making a solid strike. It just sounds so... environmentally friendly. :supergrin:

Fireplug
08-01-2011, 18:29
I'm certified with straight baton only, so I don't speak from experience. Even so, it seems that you couldn't make much of a jab with an ASP. Am I wrong?

Call me old-fashioned, but there's just something about the sound of seasoned Hickory making a solid strike. It just sounds so... environmentally friendly. :supergrin:

So true! :cool:

Magicmanmb
08-03-2011, 06:26
I'm certified with straight baton only, so I don't speak from experience. Even so, it seems that you couldn't make much of a jab with an ASP. Am I wrong?

Call me old-fashioned, but there's just something about the sound of seasoned Hickory making a solid strike. It just sounds so... environmentally friendly. :supergrin:

Not to mention trying to spin an ASP. I've personally found a full length 24" straight stick has a more attention getting visual. An ASP seems to be invisible and is fine for investigators and to carry when you can't carry a baton. Every time in the last few years that I've drawn an ASP I've ended up having to use it. Good old fashioned baton spin seemed to act more as an attention getter.

Even PR-24 is more useful than ASP. Blocking punches, drawing and spinning as you do so. Martial arts moves jsbs, pressure points. Also since it's hotter than the devil here if you leave your belt in the car overnight (take home car)
your cuffs & ASP can cause burns. Weapons & ammo inside w/me.

Agent6-3/8
08-03-2011, 10:47
Not to mention trying to spin an ASP. I've personally found a full length 24" straight stick has a more attention getting visual. An ASP seems to be invisible and is fine for investigators and to carry when you can't carry a baton. Every time in the last few years that I've drawn an ASP I've ended up having to use it. Good old fashioned baton spin seemed to act more as an attention getter.

I've been told the same by several people who have had the luxry of using the old straight sticks.

nitesite10mm
08-03-2011, 11:21
Student PPCT Manual, page 8-3, right column top paragraph.

States that the risk of injury is greater with collapsable batons than with straight batons of the same weight. You don't necessarily have to have the Instructor manual to prove your point.

SCSU74
08-03-2011, 12:07
I've bent two hitting a heavy bag during training. Get the RCB I put one between blocks and it never bent w/250+ on it extended.

+1 love mine, feels like a baseball bat :)

nitesite10mm
08-03-2011, 12:23
feels like a baseball bat :)

So does Dymondwood

Peace Frog
08-03-2011, 12:39
When I drove over the road I carried a hickory tire knocker with a lead weight inserted inside.I got a couple speeches from a couple W.V. State Police one day and a Illinois State Police officer but they were cool about it.

Looked like the one below but the one I carried was custom made and much thicker.Weighed a little under 2#...


http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/m485/PeaceFrog46/874e46b9.jpg?t=1312396221


:wavey: