Frustrating Day at the Range : Colt [Archive] - Glock Talk

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4949shooter
07-31-2011, 20:12
Well, I went to the range today and fired my Colt XSE Commander. I was having problems with Colt Checkmate magazine, so I switched out the mag spring with a Wilson Combat spring. I started out with Winchester Ranger 230 grain and immediately had FTF. So I switched to a Wilson mag and continued to have FTF's. The slide also wasn't locking back occasionally either. I switched to ball ammo (CCIBlazer brass) and had another FTF with the Colt magazine. I switched back to the Wilson magazine and the gun functioned. There was only one more FTF with a partial ball/Ranger filled mag.

So...I switched over to Federal Hydrashock and the gun worked perfectly. I ran out of Hydrashock and switched to my last box of Ranger and had more FTF malfunctions.

The funny thing is, I tested the Ranger ammo out when I first got the gun and it worked fine. The recoil spring has over 1500 rounds/cycles on it. I just ordered new springs from Wolff.

The only saving grace was the accuracy of the gun, and the fact that I believe this is just an ammo and magazine problem.

Ughh..

bac1023
07-31-2011, 20:16
Wow, sorry to hear.

4949shooter
07-31-2011, 20:18
Wow, sorry to hear.

Thanks bac. Hopefully it will work itself out.

samuse
07-31-2011, 21:08
From experience, get a new recoil spring, ditch the Checkmates and get some Chip McCormick Powermags or some Wilson 47s.

69Charger
07-31-2011, 21:17
From experience, get a new recoil spring, ditch the Checkmates and get some Chip McCormick Powermags or some Wilson 47s.
I'll agree. This is a good place to start. Is she clean? Hows your lube job? I run FP-10 or Mobil-1. And I don't skimp on the stuff. Clean and wet. MMM MMM good.
Dave

Cobra64
07-31-2011, 21:32
From experience, get a new recoil spring, ditch the Checkmates and get some Chip McCormick Powermags or some Wilson 47s.

:agree:

Recoil springs are cheap consumable parts... like windshield wipers and brake pads on a car.

I've never had an issue with CMC or Tripp mags either. Mine always work (no lube, bone dry inside the tube).

HotRoderX
07-31-2011, 21:42
My thoughts would be new recoil spring also special since the ammo worked when you first got the gun.

GeorgiaRedfish
07-31-2011, 22:22
If it ain't a colt, it's a better copy:supergrin:

Sorry to hear, good luck with it man. I would replace springs, and maybe try new mags.

polizei1
08-01-2011, 05:31
I'll agree. This is a good place to start. Is she clean? Hows your lube job? I run FP-10 or Mobil-1. And I don't skimp on the stuff. Clean and wet. MMM MMM good.
Dave

Hey Charger, glad to see you here! :wavey:

ArmoryDoc
08-01-2011, 05:59
If it ain't a colt, it's a better copy:supergrin:



:crazy::animlol:

oldsoldier
08-01-2011, 06:36
Are you running the stock 18lb weight recoil spring. I had the same problem with mine and went to a 20lb standard or 21lb variable rate recoil spring. Either one works fine and I prefer the 21lb variable rate spring.

4949shooter
08-01-2011, 15:57
Thanks for all the tips guys. Hopefully the new Wolff springs I ordered will do the trick. If not I will try a 20 pounder as oldsoldier suggested.

69Charger, I am running TW-25B on the gun. I like 'em clean and wet myself, or clean and greasy, lol.

69Charger
08-01-2011, 16:03
Hey Charger, glad to see you here! :wavey:
Thanks. Steppin out of the box a little. Seems like a good place. So far I haven't had to put on my boots too many times. :cool:
Dave. :)

agtman
08-01-2011, 16:22
Wow, my GI Springfield never did that ... :popcorn:

The local gunshop counter dude always tells me that "a Colt ain't nothing but a pony."

;)

fnfalman
08-01-2011, 17:30
Get rid of that crappy ass CheckMate mag AND the Wilson too.

Stock up on Mec-Gar mags. You can thank me later.

CDW4ME
08-01-2011, 20:56
My Colt XSE Lightweight Commander did not feed with the factory supplied magazines; Tripp magazines work 100% with the same ammo.

Agent6-3/8
08-01-2011, 21:09
Well, I went to the range today and fired my Colt XSE Commander. I was having problems with Colt Checkmate magazine, so I switched out the mag spring with a Wilson Combat spring. I started out with Winchester Ranger 230 grain and immediately had FTF. So I switched to a Wilson mag and continued to have FTF's. The slide also wasn't locking back occasionally either. I switched to ball ammo (CCIBlazer brass) and had another FTF with the Colt magazine. I switched back to the Wilson magazine and the gun functioned. There was only one more FTF with a partial ball/Ranger filled mag.

So...I switched over to Federal Hydrashock and the gun worked perfectly. I ran out of Hydrashock and switched to my last box of Ranger and had more FTF malfunctions.

The funny thing is, I tested the Ranger ammo out when I first got the gun and it worked fine. The recoil spring has over 1500 rounds/cycles on it. I just ordered new springs from Wolff.

The only saving grace was the accuracy of the gun, and the fact that I believe this is just an ammo and magazine problem.

Ughh..


Hmmm...interesting. Hopefully she'll smooth out.


My XSE Commander has been excellent. It will actually feed empty cases from a decent mag. I've found the 8 round factory mags to be junk though. I plan to replace the springs a folllowers with Tripp Super 7 kits. (which are superb)

CDW4ME
08-02-2011, 05:18
My XSE Commander has been excellent. It will actually feed empty cases from a decent mag. I've found the 8 round factory mags to be junk though. I plan to replace the springs a folllowers with Tripp Super 7 kits. (which are superb)

x2 I also used the Tripp kits to make the faulty "factory" magazines work.

rvrctyrngr
08-02-2011, 11:09
Hope you get it all worked out.

The XSE LW Commander I bought two years ago was never right. Even after a trip back to Colt it would only feed ball about 80% of the time and HPs not at all. I dumped it for a Smith PD and never looked back.

Their vain attempt at 'customer service' left a really bad impression on me, as well.

cowboywannabe
08-02-2011, 12:04
the standard recoil spring weight for a 5" 1911.45acp is 16 pounds. i just throw that one away before i even try it on the range. i install the Wolff 18.5 pound spring and have not had a failure with my "el cheapo" RIA.

4949shooter
09-05-2011, 11:21
Just got back from the range. I had replaced the recoil spring with a Wolff 18 pounder. Wolff also sent a firing pin spring with the the recoil spring so I replaced that as well. I replaced the Colt (Checkmate) magazine spring with an extra power Wolff spring, used in conjunction with a Wilson follower.

The gun functioned perfectly for the 150 rounds I fired through it (Speer Lawman 230 grain FMJ). I would have fired another 50 rounds but my buddy had to get home.

Thus relieved, I want to thank everyone for all the help and insight.

bac1023
09-05-2011, 11:22
Awesome.

Glad to hear :)

para38super
09-05-2011, 12:08
Just got back from the range. I had replaced the recoil spring with a Wolff 18 pounder. Wolff also sent a firing pin spring with the the recoil spring so I replaced that as well. I replaced the Colt (Checkmate) magazine spring with an extra power Wolff spring, used in conjunction with a Wilson follower.

The gun functioned perfectly for the 150 rounds I fired through it (Speer Lawman 230 grain FMJ). I would have fired another 50 rounds but my buddy had to get home.

Thus relieved, I want to thank everyone for all the help and insight.
Did you use a Wilson 7rd follower or a 8rd follower? Also what exact spring did you use?

CMG
09-05-2011, 13:08
From experience, get a new recoil spring, ditch the Checkmates and get some Chip McCormick Powermags or some Wilson 47s.

If you're gonna ditch the checkmates, I'll pay shipping to send them to me. They run great in my pistols.

G21FAN
09-05-2011, 13:17
When I got my XSE Lightweight Government the 8 rnd mags supplied by Colt and optional new 7 rnd Colt mags would allways let the last round jump the feed lips locking the slide back empty. I thought I was just shooting dry untill I found unfired rounds down by my mags.

My old 1970's era Colt made 7 rnd mags would not do this, and my Wilson 7 rnd would be fine as well.

I replaced the FLGR with a GI type and put a 20lb recoil spring in and it shoots softer with the 230 duty rounds.

http://i365.photobucket.com/albums/oo96/medic15al/001.jpg

bac1023
09-05-2011, 13:51
Looks nice

G21FAN
09-05-2011, 13:54
Thanks!

4949shooter
09-05-2011, 19:52
Awesome.

Glad to hear :)

Thank you. :cool:

4949shooter
09-05-2011, 19:54
Did you use a Wilson 7rd follower or a 8rd follower? Also what exact spring did you use?

Wilson 8 round follower.

Combined with this spring:

http://www.gunsprings.com/index.cfm?page=items&cID=1&mID=42

4949shooter
09-05-2011, 19:57
When I got my XSE Lightweight Government the 8 rnd mags supplied by Colt and optional new 7 rnd Colt mags would allways let the last round jump the feed lips locking the slide back empty. I thought I was just shooting dry untill I found unfired rounds down by my mags.

My old 1970's era Colt made 7 rnd mags would not do this, and my Wilson 7 rnd would be fine as well.

I replaced the FLGR with a GI type and put a 20lb recoil spring in and it shoots softer with the 230 duty rounds.

http://i365.photobucket.com/albums/oo96/medic15al/001.jpg

The newer Colt springs do seem to be problematic.

para38super
09-05-2011, 21:17
Wilson 8 round follower.

Combined with this spring:

http://www.gunsprings.com/index.cfm?page=items&cID=1&mID=42
So you use a 8rd mag follower with a 7rd mag spring made for Metalform mags?
How many rounds does it fit now? I know I am asking a lot of questions but when I had problems with my 8rd Colt mags, all I did was replace the springs with Wolff 8rd extra power springs and the problems when away.

BuckyP
09-06-2011, 05:55
Some good advice so far, the recoil springs and trying different magazines. Let me share something else to the list of advice. In my experience, I've had issues with Ranger 230 SXTs in 1911 guns. They wouldn't feed well in my Kimber. They would also hiccup occasionally in my Kobra Carry with 8 round magazines, but fed fine with the 7 round Tripp. Also, even when they did feed in the KC, they would eject the rounds directly into my forehead. This is the only round out of many tested that exhibits this behavior. I now use Gold Dots in my 1911s, and use the Rangers in my GLOCKs. I noticed you were using Rangers, so thought I'd share, FWIW.

4949shooter
09-06-2011, 14:17
So you use a 8rd mag follower with a 7rd mag spring made for Metalform mags?
How many rounds does it fit now? I know I am asking a lot of questions but when I had problems with my 8rd Colt mags, all I did was replace the springs with Wolff 8rd extra power springs and the problems when away.

Long story short, I was having trouble with the shooting star followers. I had malfunctions that did not occur when I used the Wilson Combat magazines.

I switched out the shooting star follower for the Wilson follower and the problems went away. Recently, I had problems with this mag when I had none before. Then there became functioning problems with the Wilson mags as well.

I was in the process of swapping out the recoil spring for a Wolff spring, when I saw the metalform springs on their site. So I figured I would order one for the heck of it, because I have an older nickel plated metalform magazine that someone had given me (which wasn't working either). When I went to swap out the Metalform spring for the Wolff spring I realized the spring Wolff sent me would not fit that specific type of follower. Just for the heck of it, I tried the spring in the Colt Checkmate magazine with the Wilson follower and it seemed to fit perfectly. I decided to try it, and to my surprise it worked beautifully. So yes, it's a Checkmate mag, with a Meltalform spring, with a Wilson follower, and it worked great! I will be doing some more shooting/testing with it in the future.

Edit: I tried putting eight rounds in this mag and they wouldn't fit. Almost but not quite.

4949shooter
09-06-2011, 14:21
Some good advice so far, the recoil springs and trying different magazines. Let me share something else to the list of advice. In my experience, I've had issues with Ranger 230 SXTs in 1911 guns. They wouldn't feed well in my Kimber. They would also hiccup occasionally in my Kobra Carry with 8 round magazines, but fed fine with the 7 round Tripp. Also, even when they did feed in the KC, they would eject the rounds directly into my forehead. This is the only round out of many tested that exhibits this behavior. I now use Gold Dots in my 1911s, and use the Rangers in my GLOCKs. I noticed you were using Rangers, so thought I'd share, FWIW.

Thanks Bucky. Oddly enough, when I first got the gun the Rangers were feeding fine. I don't know what happened, but I will be staying away from them.

Which Gold Dots are you running, the 230 or the 185's?

BuckyP
09-06-2011, 14:37
Thanks Bucky. Oddly enough, when I first got the gun the Rangers were feeding fine. I don't know what happened, but I will be staying away from them.

Which Gold Dots are you running, the 230 or the 185's?

I am using 230g Gold Dot, standard pressure (non +p).

The Rangers I had issues with were 230 as well. They run fine in my GLOCKs.

4949shooter
09-06-2011, 16:12
I am using 230g Gold Dot, standard pressure (non +p).

The Rangers I had issues with were 230 as well. They run fine in my GLOCKs.

Thanks I will try some 230 grain Gold dots.

para38super
09-07-2011, 06:45
Thanks I will try some 230 grain Gold dots.
That's what I use as well, shoots as good as FMJ.

Keeps us posted how it works out for you.

MajorD
09-07-2011, 09:56
no reason you should need a recoil spring to solve your problem- I'd bet on start with fresh known quality mags and ball. Don't mess with the internals of the gun quite yet.
If it works with hydrshocks, no reason not to just carry hydrashocks.

m814
09-09-2011, 05:48
According to others, the Commanders seem to be prone to recoil spring fatigue worse than Govt. You say you have "about" 1500 rds. I think that is about when the recoil spring on a standard Commander is recommended to be replaced. Now that you have a Wolf in it, you will probably be good for a long time. They seem to be made out of the best spring steel. I replace mine with Wolf springs and love them. Glad you got it running.

I think the 18 lb springs work better than stock 16 lb springs in full sized guns anyway. They do not beat the gun up, but give just a little more margin for the spring to relax as the round count builds up. I have never heard of a Wolf 18rd spring being the cause of a FTRTB.

4949shooter
09-09-2011, 06:08
According to others, the Commanders seem to be prone to recoil spring fatigue worse than Govt. You say you have "about" 1500 rds. I think that is about when the recoil spring on a standard Commander is recommended to be replaced. Now that you have a Wolf in it, you will probably be good for a long time. They seem to be made out of the best spring steel. I replace mine with Wolf springs and love them. Glad you got it running.



Thanks. How many rounds do you get out of a Wolff spring? I am thinking I will replace every 1500 rounds to be on the safe side.

4949shooter
09-18-2011, 11:51
Fired another 200 rounds of Speer Lawman 230 grain FMJ through the hybrid magazine today with no problems.

Gringo1956
09-18-2011, 16:35
Ditch the colt son and get a Rock Island.
RIA smokes my Kimber and Springer. Plain and simple.
Get the RIA and dont look back.
Wow, a 1911 for less than $500 that smokes a Kimber and Springfield.
What a concept.

Feanor
09-18-2011, 16:38
Well, I went to the range today and fired my Colt XSE Commander. I was having problems with Colt Checkmate magazine, so I switched out the mag spring with a Wilson Combat spring. I started out with Winchester Ranger 230 grain and immediately had FTF. So I switched to a Wilson mag and continued to have FTF's. The slide also wasn't locking back occasionally either. I switched to ball ammo (CCIBlazer brass) and had another FTF with the Colt magazine. I switched back to the Wilson magazine and the gun functioned. There was only one more FTF with a partial ball/Ranger filled mag.

So...I switched over to Federal Hydrashock and the gun worked perfectly. I ran out of Hydrashock and switched to my last box of Ranger and had more FTF malfunctions.

The funny thing is, I tested the Ranger ammo out when I first got the gun and it worked fine. The recoil spring has over 1500 rounds/cycles on it. I just ordered new springs from Wolff.

The only saving grace was the accuracy of the gun, and the fact that I believe this is just an ammo and magazine problem.

Ughh..

You might have forgotten the press garnered by "Checkmate" magazines a few years back when some DoD puke forced them into service in the sand box where they promptly quit working, by the thousand!

Checkmate magazines suck.

Gringo1956
09-18-2011, 16:54
You might have forgotten the press garnered by "Checkmate" magazines a few years back when some DoD puke forced them into service in the sand box where they promptly quit working, by the thousand!

Checkmate magazines suck.

Checkmate is the mag that came with my RIA 9mm and, it absolutely kicks major ass!
checkmate is good [in 9mm], do not forget that

ferretray
09-20-2011, 08:21
Howdy all. I have a used 1991 Series 80 Colt Government Model heading my way shortly. Unknown round count.
I normally replace all springs in an URC pistol with a Wolff Gunsprings Service Pak. I'll do so this go-round.
My go-to mags have always been Colt OEM 7 rounders.
I've been buying up some Colt SS 8-rounders available locally for a fair price. They have an anti-tilt follower and different feed lips. I'll start off loading em' with 7 rounds and go from there. If the springs aren't up to par I'll replace em' with Wolff extra strength for 8 rounds.
I'll let y'all know how I make out.

4949shooter
09-20-2011, 15:43
I am a big fan of the Wilson Combat agazines.

I am not a big fan of the Colt (Checkmate,Metalform) mags. This hybrid magazine however, I do like. I will continue to shoot it some more without cleaning it.

I am just curious...

fnfalman
09-21-2011, 14:00
Or you guys can stop messing around with magazine parts and get some Mec-Gars.

Oops, I did say that before, didn't I?

It bears saying again.

The Colt mags and Metalform mags are what I use when I'm goofing at the range, or to use as reload for my Ruger Blackhawk Convertible. The cheesy, soft springs in these mags allow me to slip the rounds easily out of the magazines and into the cylinder of the Blackhawk Convertible (in both .45ACP and 9mm). Mec-Gar mags with tighter springs don't do this very well.

4949shooter
09-21-2011, 14:44
I'll have to try a MecGar sometime.

The mags for my Ruger LCP are MecGar, and are solid, high quality mags.

mrsurfboard
09-21-2011, 17:50
My Smith E Series came with Checkmate mags. Jam o Matics. I threw them in the trash.

BuckyP
09-21-2011, 18:06
My Smith E Series came with Checkmate mags. Jam o Matics. I threw them in the trash.

I thought Smith .45s came with ACT mags (9mm comes with Wilson). :dunno:

fnfalman
09-21-2011, 18:10
I thought Smith .45s came with ACT mags (9mm comes with Wilson). :dunno:

If they come with ACT mags then it must be something new that they've recently done. My SW Gunsite is about five or six years old, and it came with the generic mags.

mrsurfboard
09-21-2011, 19:07
I thought Smith .45s came with ACT mags (9mm comes with Wilson). :dunno:

I don't know, mine came with Checkmates

4949shooter
07-04-2013, 20:48
Time to bring back an old thread.

I ran some 230 grain Gold dots through both my Commanders today. The 1991 didn't feed them.

The XSE fed them with the Colt (Checkmate) mag and Wilson follower. The Wilson #47D mag didn't work with the Gold Dots.

Go figure. :dunno:

samuse
07-04-2013, 21:23
You're gonna go broke trying to figure it out like that.

You need a good reliability tune from a good 1911 plumber.

And then maybe run ball ammo.

4949shooter
07-05-2013, 04:08
You're gonna go broke trying to figure it out like that.

You need a good reliability tune from a good 1911 plumber.

And then maybe run ball ammo.

You aren't kidding.

Everything runs good with ball ammo.

Paul7
07-05-2013, 11:08
Ditch the colt son and get a Rock Island.
RIA smokes my Kimber and Springer. Plain and simple.
Get the RIA and dont look back.
Wow, a 1911 for less than $500 that smokes a Kimber and Springfield.
What a concept.

That wasn't the case with my RIA. I also prefer a forged slide and frame.

fnfalman
07-05-2013, 16:38
Time to bring back an old thread.

I ran some 230 grain Gold dots through both my Commanders today. The 1991 didn't feed them.

The XSE fed them with the Colt (Checkmate) mag and Wilson follower. The Wilson #47D mag didn't work with the Gold Dots.

Go figure. :dunno:

You have some really bad luck with those two Colt Commanders.

My XSE Lightweight Commander works really well with all sorts of strange hollowpoints including the gaping maw JHP that Cor-Bon uses for bullet. Same thing with my 6-months-old Combat Commander Series 80.

Seriously, stop messing around with swapping magazine parts. Get yourself a couple of mags from Tripp Research. That way you know for sure that you have truly quality mags. Then start trying them out with ball and JHP again. Note any and all malfunctions that has to do with feeding in details. Take some photos. BTW, either put back or use the standard weight recoil spring too.

Also it doesn't hurt to have a decent local smithy polish up the feed ramps of both guns. They may or may not need it, but the service should be pretty quick and cheap.

Roering
07-05-2013, 16:39
Ditch the colt son and get a Rock Island.
RIA smokes my Kimber and Springer. Plain and simple.
Get the RIA and dont look back.
Wow, a 1911 for less than $500 that smokes a Kimber and Springfield.
What a concept.

http://images.t-nation.com/forum_images/a/0/a0708_ORIG-cmon_son.jpg

Happy Hunting
07-05-2013, 17:11
My xse combat commander hates the mag that came with it. I even sprung (heh) for new wilson guts to fit in there. Wilson mags have worked with all fmj, gold dots, and critical defense. It's a sweet shooting pistol and I would carry it more if I dressed more appropriately.


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joeG26er
07-05-2013, 17:36
Ok I am researching 45s and i am curious why nobody is taking their mag issues up with the manufacturer? If my company-shipped any items with critical components that did not function, we would be getting calls and emails left and right.

4949shooter
07-05-2013, 20:01
You have some really bad luck with those two Colt Commanders.

My XSE Lightweight Commander works really well with all sorts of strange hollowpoints including the gaping maw JHP that Cor-Bon uses for bullet. Same thing with my 6-months-old Combat Commander Series 80.

Seriously, stop messing around with swapping magazine parts. Get yourself a couple of mags from Tripp Research. That way you know for sure that you have truly quality mags. Then start trying them out with ball and JHP again. Note any and all malfunctions that has to do with feeding in details. Take some photos. BTW, either put back or use the standard weight recoil spring too.

Also it doesn't hurt to have a decent local smithy polish up the feed ramps of both guns. They may or may not need it, but the service should be pretty quick and cheap.

I might have to invest in some Tripp mags then. More $$ spent..

My xse combat commander hates the mag that came with it. I even sprung (heh) for new wilson guts to fit in there. Wilson mags have worked with all fmj, gold dots, and critical defense. It's a sweet shooting pistol and I would carry it more if I dressed more appropriately.


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I don't know what is up with the Wilson mags, specially when you say they worked in your gun with the Gold Dots.

Ok I am researching 45s and i am curious why nobody is taking their mag issues up with the manufacturer? If my company-shipped any items with critical components that did not function, we would be getting calls and emails left and right.

I didn't think about the warranty side of this. How is Wilson's customer service?

fnfalman
07-06-2013, 01:26
I didn't think about the warranty side of this. How is Wilson's customer service?

I rate it as a "blah".

I had two Wilson ETM 9mm compact mags that were bad. The other three ETM mags worked fine, the Colt factory mags worked fine. The Trip Research mags worked fine. Everything was fine except these two Wilson mags. I tried calling and left messages, filling out the email contact form, even exchanged emails with a couple of the customer service people. Yet nothing happened for like three months. Finally I complained in this subforum and somebody must have passed the word onto Wilson Combat and one of their reps came on here, we exchanged emails again and finally got the two mags swapped out.

fnfalman
07-06-2013, 01:28
I might have to invest in some Tripp mags then. More $$ spent..



I don't know what to tell you but when it comes to M1911s, factory mags are pretty crappy. It's either made by Metalform or Check Mate. Not just Colt either but Kimber, Springfield, SW, etc.

Once again, I must have lucked out because the several brand new Colts that I've bought the last three years have worked pretty well with the factory mags too. I just hate the flimsy build, cheesy springs and crappy followers in those things.

4949shooter
07-06-2013, 05:34
I don't know what to tell you but when it comes to M1911s, factory mags are pretty crappy. It's either made by Metalform or Check Mate. Not just Colt either but Kimber, Springfield, SW, etc.

Once again, I must have lucked out because the several brand new Colts that I've bought the last three years have worked pretty well with the factory mags too. I just hate the flimsy build, cheesy springs and crappy followers in those things.

Do you use the seven round Tripps or the 8 round? I am tempted to order a seven rounder just to try it out.

Edit: I just ordered extra power magazine springs from Wolff Springs for the 47D's. The springs on the Wilson mags seemed weaker than the mag that worked. Will try this out as a low cost option first.

Thanks for al the replies.

fnfalman
07-06-2013, 12:28
Do you use the seven round Tripps or the 8 round? I am tempted to order a seven rounder just to try it out.

Edit: I just ordered extra power magazine springs from Wolff Springs for the 47D's. The springs on the Wilson mags seemed weaker than the mag that worked. Will try this out as a low cost option first.

Thanks for al the replies.

I have the 8rders for the Government and 7rder for the Officer.

But let's back up real quick, which one has feeding issues? XSE or Combat Cdr? Or both? And the description of the malfunctions too. The JHP catches at the feed ramp? At the chamber? Not made it out of the feed lips?


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fastbolt
07-06-2013, 12:54
The first thing I did when I got my new XSE Government was remove the folded-leaf follower and light spring (needed for that follower) and replace them with standard dimpled followers & some extra power springs (appropriate for standard follower).

I also added a Tripp 8-rd mag and some ACT-MAG 8-rd mags, later adding the 7-rd version as sold by Wolff. (Wolff also sells their own extra power springs for the ACT-MAG's, which is what I use to replace aging springs in the ACT-MAG's I received from S&W with my SW1911SC.)

My XSE has reliably fed 230gr Gold Dot, Golden Sabre & Ranger T-Series (standard & +P), Win standard 230gr JHP and some assorted odds & ends which have surfaced in range bins and my older loose rounds.

I remember looking at that weird throat bevel in my Colt pistol armorer class, and wondering how they'd come up with it and whether it really worked. I was assured it did (the instructor said he'd fired more than 5K rounds through his lightweight XSE Commander, albeit ball loads), and told Colt engineers had developed the new throat design using computers.

I couldn't resist cleaning up some minor rough spots, but otherwise left the factory throat alone ... and it's fed and fired all the factory loads I've tried in it.

FWIW, unless Wilson has changed the design spec of the top coil of their light mag spring, a standard spring won't work with their 47D follower design. Last time I asked I was told that Wolff made the springs for Wilson, and the terms of their contract precluded Wolff from selling the proprietary spring design Wilson specifies directly to the public. I was told I'd have to buy them from Wilson.

If it were me, I'd order a couple of the Wolff branded 7-rd ACT-MAG's for your Commander and call it a day. If those run well, you could try the 8-rd mags, too.

Tripp makes good mags, too, although I haven't tried the newest ones since they switched the vendor making their mag bodies. (6 or more years ago?) When I ordered some for T&E back then the gentleman said the new mag bodies would be made to even better tolerances than the then-current mag bodies.

FWIW, I gave one of those older 8-rd Tripp's to one of our guys who couldn't get his Commander to feed even Win 230gr JHP (the old Subsonic design that seems pretty ball profile). The Tripp mag fed those and some other loads without further issue.

Some guys like the CM PowerMags.

I sued to have decent luck with the Metalform FBI-spec mags (dimpled follower & extra power spring), but I've heard reports of QC issues now & again. Of course, the early ACT-MAG's received some scattered reports of the rear of the mag lips cracking (right side, as I recall), but the last vendor of the newer production mags with whom I spoke said that seemed to have been resolved in recent years.

F106 Fan
07-06-2013, 14:25
Have you got access to a chronograph? Hardball should be about 230 gr at 830 fps from a 5" barrel and probably 780 fps from a 4" barrel. That is a Power Factor of 191 (bullet weight in grains times velocity in feet per second, all divided by 1000). It would be interesting to see what effect power factor has on your feed problems.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.45_ACP

Notice that the HydraShock is 230 gr at 900 fps. That puppy is stout - 207 Power Factor.

I have shot Colt 1911s with the cheap factory magazines for over 30 years. The magazine just doesn't matter. I have some Wilson's and they work just fine. I also have some CMC mags and they work fine. Flat follower, curved follower, dimpled follower; it just doesn't matter.

Are you sure your slide isn't oversprung? If the slide doesn't travel all the way to the rear, it may not properly pick up and feed the incoming round.

Every type of ammo I have ever used has worked in all of my Colt's (Government Model, Government Combat, Gold Cup, Lightweight Commander), Star PD, Sig 1911 and both Glocks. I have shot FMJ, GDHP, Hornady Critical Defense (185 gr 1000 fps), Remington GoldenSaber, lead round nose, lead semiwadcutter and Black Talon. Everything works in every gun - well, I haven't tried Black Talon in the Glocks; I don't have very much left so it's not much of an issue.

Obviously, I haven't shot your guns so it's hard to say from a distance what could be wrong but I don't think I would spend as much time on the magazines and would be looking at other possibilities. The first thing I would be looking at is Power Factor followed by spring rate followed by grip. From my limited sampling, magazines wouldn't even be on the radar.

As to grip: The old rule of thumb for 1911s with wood grip panels stated simply that your grip should produce sawdust at your feet.

Richard

4949shooter
07-06-2013, 14:52
I have the 8rders for the Government and 7rder for the Officer.

But let's back up real quick, which one has feeding issues? XSE or Combat Cdr? Or both? And the description of the malfunctions too. The JHP catches at the feed ramp? At the chamber? Not made it out of the feed lips?


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire (http://www.outdoorhub.com/mobile/)

They (both guns) had issues with the Gold Dots. The 1991 Combat Commander didn't feed the Gold Dots with either magazine. It feeds ball ammo no problem.

The XSE wouldn't feed the Gold Dots with the 47D mag, but will feed ball. The XSE fed the Gold Dots with the hybrid mag (Wilson follower w/ Xtra power Wolff spring).

The malfunctions all were failure to chamber. Some of the bullets got partially in and I could get it to chamber by tapping the slide. This was with the 1991. With the XSE, the bullets hung up on the feed ramp.

4949shooter
07-06-2013, 14:59
Have you got access to a chronograph? Hardball should be about 230 gr at 830 fps from a 5" barrel and probably 780 fps from a 4" barrel. That is a Power Factor of 191 (bullet weight in grains times velocity in feet per second, all divided by 1000). It would be interesting to see what effect power factor has on your feed problems.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.45_ACP

Notice that the HydraShock is 230 gr at 900 fps. That puppy is stout - 207 Power Factor.

I have shot Colt 1911s with the cheap factory magazines for over 30 years. The magazine just doesn't matter. I have some Wilson's and they work just fine. I also have some CMC mags and they work fine. Flat follower, curved follower, dimpled follower; it just doesn't matter.

Are you sure your slide isn't oversprung? If the slide doesn't travel all the way to the rear, it may not properly pick up and feed the incoming round.

Every type of ammo I have ever used has worked in all of my Colt's (Government Model, Government Combat, Gold Cup, Lightweight Commander), Star PD, Sig 1911 and both Glocks. I have shot FMJ, GDHP, Hornady Critical Defense (185 gr 1000 fps), Remington GoldenSaber, lead round nose, lead semiwadcutter and Black Talon. Everything works in every gun - well, I haven't tried Black Talon in the Glocks; I don't have very much left so it's not much of an issue.

Obviously, I haven't shot your guns so it's hard to say from a distance what could be wrong but I don't think I would spend as much time on the magazines and would be looking at other possibilities. The first thing I would be looking at is Power Factor followed by spring rate followed by grip. From my limited sampling, magazines wouldn't even be on the radar.

As to grip: The old rule of thumb for 1911s with wood grip panels stated simply that your grip should produce sawdust at your feet.

Richard

Thanks Rich. I don't have access to a chrono. But I can tell you that the Gold Dots feel noticeably more powerful than ball ammo. The recoil spring I am running is an 18 pound Wolff, which I believe is standard for a Commander.

The Hydrashoks that fed were the 165 grain Personal Defense type, which I think are downloaded somewhat and are softer shooting.

4949shooter
07-06-2013, 15:06
The first thing I did when I got my new XSE Government was remove the folded-leaf follower and light spring (needed for that follower) and replace them with standard dimpled followers & some extra power springs (appropriate for standard follower).

I also added a Tripp 8-rd mag and some ACT-MAG 8-rd mags, later adding the 7-rd version as sold by Wolff. (Wolff also sells their own extra power springs for the ACT-MAG's, which is what I use to replace aging springs in the ACT-MAG's I received from S&W with my SW1911SC.)

My XSE has reliably fed 230gr Gold Dot, Golden Sabre & Ranger T-Series (standard & +P), Win standard 230gr JHP and some assorted odds & ends which have surfaced in range bins and my older loose rounds.

I remember looking at that weird throat bevel in my Colt pistol armorer class, and wondering how they'd come up with it and whether it really worked. I was assured it did (the instructor said he'd fired more than 5K rounds through his lightweight XSE Commander, albeit ball loads), and told Colt engineers had developed the new throat design using computers.

I couldn't resist cleaning up some minor rough spots, but otherwise left the factory throat alone ... and it's fed and fired all the factory loads I've tried in it.

FWIW, unless Wilson has changed the design spec of the top coil of their light mag spring, a standard spring won't work with their 47D follower design. Last time I asked I was told that Wolff made the springs for Wilson, and the terms of their contract precluded Wolff from selling the proprietary spring design Wilson specifies directly to the public. I was told I'd have to buy them from Wilson.

If it were me, I'd order a couple of the Wolff branded 7-rd ACT-MAG's for your Commander and call it a day. If those run well, you could try the 8-rd mags, too.

Tripp makes good mags, too, although I haven't tried the newest ones since they switched the vendor making their mag bodies. (6 or more years ago?) When I ordered some for T&E back then the gentleman said the new mag bodies would be made to even better tolerances than the then-current mag bodies.

FWIW, I gave one of those older 8-rd Tripp's to one of our guys who couldn't get his Commander to feed even Win 230gr JHP (the old Subsonic design that seems pretty ball profile). The Tripp mag fed those and some other loads without further issue.

Some guys like the CM PowerMags.

I sued to have decent luck with the Metalform FBI-spec mags (dimpled follower & extra power spring), but I've heard reports of QC issues now & again. Of course, the early ACT-MAG's received some scattered reports of the rear of the mag lips cracking (right side, as I recall), but the last vendor of the newer production mags with whom I spoke said that seemed to have been resolved in recent years.

My XSE sounds like it has the same throating as yours. I am thinking since it feeds ball, the higher powered Gold Dot is sending the lighter Commander slide back faster so it needs an xtra power spring to feed the ammo fast enough. If the Wolf springs don't work I will try a Tripp or ACT MAG as you guys suggested.

The reason I am trying to get the Gold Dots to work are that I acquired a quantity pre Sandy Hook, and still have a good supply left.

fastbolt
07-06-2013, 15:35
My XSE sounds like it has the same throating as yours. I am thinking since it feeds ball, the higher powered Gold Dot is sending the lighter Commander slide back faster so it needs an xtra power spring to feed the ammo fast enough. If the Wolf springs don't work I will try a Tripp or ACT MAG as you guys suggested.

The reason I am trying to get the Gold Dots to work are that I acquired a quantity pre Sandy Hook, and still have a good supply left.

If you want the Gold Dots to have the best chance for optimal feeding, you might use a fresh factory recoil spring and different mags.

It also helps to make sure the extractor is tensioned within the normal range.

Look at the shape of the top coil of the stock 47D mag spring, and then look at the top coil of one of the new springs ordered from Wolff (instead of Wilson), and see whether the top coil is cut differently than the design Wilson uses with his plastic followers.

I used to order standard extra power springs and cut the top coil to match that of the springs Wilson orders, but then I found that any counter-clockwise "twist" of a regular spring's upper coils could allow the cut end of the top coil to stick out to the left just enough to interfere with the slide stop lever tab.

I got tired of replacing weakened 47D springs so quickly, and finally just stopped using them. It's been much simpler since then. The Tripp 8-rd and ACT-MAG 7 & 8-rd mags (with both standard & extra power springs) feed with monotonous reliability in my SW1911SC 5" & XSE 5" guns.

I like monotonous feeding with an assortment of JHP's in different 1911's. ;)

Other guys, though, have experienced good results in both 4 1/4" & 5" guns with the CM PowerMags (although the Commander shooter, a serious shooter who has also been an instructor at one of the national well-known schools) had to replace the springs sooner than he expected.

RetailNinja
07-07-2013, 01:03
Can you post some pics of your magazines loaded with ammo and locked in the frame with the slide off?

FWIW I ONLY use CMC magazines now. They work in all of my 1911s out of the bag, with no mods done to the guns (Springfield Champion, Les Baer TRS, DW specialist and Colt Wiley Clapp) I recommend them to everyone.

4949shooter
07-07-2013, 07:25
If you want the Gold Dots to have the best chance for optimal feeding, you might use a fresh factory recoil spring and different mags.

It also helps to make sure the extractor is tensioned within the normal range.

Look at the shape of the top coil of the stock 47D mag spring, and then look at the top coil of one of the new springs ordered from Wolff (instead of Wilson), and see whether the top coil is cut differently than the design Wilson uses with his plastic followers.

I used to order standard extra power springs and cut the top coil to match that of the springs Wilson orders, but then I found that any counter-clockwise "twist" of a regular spring's upper coils could allow the cut end of the top coil to stick out to the left just enough to interfere with the slide stop lever tab.

I got tired of replacing weakened 47D springs so quickly, and finally just stopped using them. It's been much simpler since then. The Tripp 8-rd and ACT-MAG 7 & 8-rd mags (with both standard & extra power springs) feed with monotonous reliability in my SW1911SC 5" & XSE 5" guns.

I like monotonous feeding with an assortment of JHP's in different 1911's. ;)

Other guys, though, have experienced good results in both 4 1/4" & 5" guns with the CM PowerMags (although the Commander shooter, a serious shooter who has also been an instructor at one of the national well-known schools) had to replace the springs sooner than he expected.

The recoil spring is a Wolff which I replaced 500 rounds ago. It still feels strong. I will let you know how the new springs work out. If not I will try some new mags. The 47D mag springs do feel weak compared to the Wolff sprung mag.

Monotonous feed reliability.....that sounds good! :cool:

4949shooter
07-07-2013, 07:26
Can you post some pics of your magazines loaded with ammo and locked in the frame with the slide off?

FWIW I ONLY use CMC magazines now. They work in all of my 1911s out of the bag, with no mods done to the guns (Springfield Champion, Les Baer TRS, DW specialist and Colt Wiley Clapp) I recommend them to everyone.

Thanks I will try to get some pics up later in the week. I worked late last night and have to cut my lawn today in this sweltering heat and NJ humidity.

cciman
07-07-2013, 08:27
so many variables, so many permutations :wow:

Ball ammo and be happy

cciman
07-07-2013, 08:30
sell the gold dots and try something else.

4949shooter
07-07-2013, 16:03
sell the gold dots and try something else.

Believe me I have thought about it.

4949shooter
07-07-2013, 20:20
Okay, here is the pic of the Colt (sans slide) with a Wilson magazine loaded with Gold Dots:

http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh289/4949shooter/6653bc48-92b4-4e78-bdb7-59db4b08bcbc.jpg (http://s259.photobucket.com/user/4949shooter/media/6653bc48-92b4-4e78-bdb7-59db4b08bcbc.jpg.html)

F106 Fan
07-08-2013, 17:09
What happens when you attempt to chamber and use an overhand grip to push/ride the slide closed?

What happens when you sling-shot the chambering?

What happens when you chamber by releasing the slide stop?

It could very well be that Gold Dots are not your friend.

Richard

4949shooter
07-08-2013, 17:21
What happens when you attempt to chamber and use an overhand grip to push/ride the slide closed?

What happens when you sling-shot the chambering?

What happens when you chamber by releasing the slide stop?

It could very well be that Gold Dots are not your friend.

Richard

My buddy was shooting with me, and he sling shots the slide with no problem.

I release the slide stop with no problems.

RetailNinja
07-08-2013, 22:09
Maybe it's just the angle of the picture, but it looks like the GD is going to nosedive into the ramp before the feedlips release it.

4949shooter
07-09-2013, 15:52
I will try to get to the range this weekend if my new mag springs come in. I will let you know how it works after I fire it.

fnfalman
07-09-2013, 16:33
so many variables, so many permutations :wow:



That's the problem with swapping mag parts around. You forgot what's what.

fnfalman
07-09-2013, 16:39
How about get a box of JHP from a third brand and give it a whirl?

You need to determine if it's an ammo problem or a gun problem. If it's an ammo problem then the fix is real easy:

a. Don't use Gold Dot any more.
b. Polish the feed ramp/chamfer the chamber to take Gold Dot.

If it's a gun problem then we'd have to diagnose to see if it's a mag problem or the gun itself.

I personally like my guns to be able to feed any and all JHPs. I'd usually go out and find the nastiest, widest JHP round and see if the gun would eat it. If not, then I'd fix the gun to eat that widest JHP load. After that, the better "ball" style JHP bullets should feed.

This is why I missed the old 200-grain Flying Ashtray JHP. I used to make sure that my .45s (M1911, SIG, etc.) would eat that mutha. I have yet to have an M1911's feed ramp & chamber polished to take the Flying Ashtray would then choke on anything else.

fastbolt
07-09-2013, 16:49
Bear in mind not to let yourself risk becoming over-focused on any one particular mag that may seem "problematic". Don't let a "mag problem" translate itself in your mind into thinking you have a "gun problem".

Over the years of owning & using, and helping support/maintain/repair 1911's used by other folks & an agency, sometimes it's just faster & easier to discard a mag and replace it. If the "problem" goes away, then you know you identified & eliminated the "problem".

I've gone through boxes & boxes of 1911 mags over the years. Sometimes a component replacement will keep one viable & working (springs, followers & buttplates can wear), and sometimes it's just a spec issue with the lips (or a crack, etc) and not worth wasting time thinking about. Toss the "bad" one & replace it.

At some point magazines can become disposable "assemblies" used in pistols.

It's annoying, though, when it's a new, or relatively new, magazine and it happens.

Let us know how the range session goes. Consider taking a couple new mags, just in case, so you can finish the range session with "good" functioning if your attempt to restore the problem one doesn't pan out. Might as well end the day on a good note, right? :)

4949shooter
07-09-2013, 18:15
Thanks guys. I agree with everyone who has tried to help.

I will let you know how it goes. :cool: