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knoxvegasdaddy
08-02-2011, 01:28
%^$#%*^$&^!

I feel like a tool! I have let a handgun get out of my care & custody, and now it roams the street. I'm kicking myself in the ass over a number of things. Any help/guidance/advice you can offer is much appreciated.


1. Sorry, gents! The thought of one of you "finding" it the wrong way has me pretty damn upset.

2. I want it back (duh), but I'd be completely happy if I never saw it again, as long as it is off the street.


missing: HS 2000 generation 2 9mm (Springfield XD before Springfield bought the production rights for those not familiar) black frame, o.d. green teflon coated slide. (slide was black from factory)

I'm 99% certain it was taken by my now former sole employee, who was out of work 3 weeks (hepatitus c) and came back to work on Friday. He's a prior felon (cocaine possession 6 years ago) allegedly trying to get his life back on track post prison / post nasty divorce.

To date, a hard working, reliable person, but as it turns out, according to the Deputy who took the report, both of his brothers are "clients".

The gun went missing between Friday evening and Sunday morning from my work truck.

Unfortunately, I don't have the damn serial number. I have the serial number, make, and model of every gun I have ever owned except that one, and it is the only used gun i owned. I traded a friend for it in 2000, and apparently never added it to the list. I know the distributor where it was bought, but not who it was sold to originally.

I learned Sunday that serial # is required for entry into the Federal database, so the gun can't be logged in as stolen. what a screw up on my part!

If anyone can offer any help at all, I'll be eternally grateful.

Kahr_Glockman
08-02-2011, 01:44
Do you have any pictures of the gun, and if you do can you possibly get the serial number from the picture?

Also do you have the box, or the fired casing?(Long shot, and I assume that you already thought of it, but I am throwing it out there.)

Call the guy you got it from and tell him what happened. He may have the serial number somewhere, and he might rememeber who he got it from. Start tracking from there until you can find the original owner/purchaser. Then you can call the gunstore, and find the serial number. Gunstores have to keep the 4473 until they close, and then send them to the ATF. There is a 4473 for that gun somewhere. Not to mention the original HS 2000 are not that common.

Best of luck, it sucks that you are going through this, but if you provide the police with a picture or soe other proof of what the gun is, while it wont go into NCIC as a stolen, it may still find its way back to you.

Work on traking down the serial number though. That will help you the most.

knoxvegasdaddy
08-02-2011, 02:22
got MUCH fired brass! i keep 'em

no photos

had it 11 years, don't remember the guys name

Intrac was the sole north american importer, they were hq'd in knoxville tn, and they are to my knowledge, out of business, and their records are in care of atf probably, but I think they may have retailed through craigs firearms supply, which is very much in business! thats a start. thanks

razdog76
08-02-2011, 04:06
Did you buy it at a gun store? If so, you can make contact with them to get the SN out of their FFL log.

Kahr_Glockman
08-02-2011, 04:59
I should have asked, other than the serial number, is there any identifying information or something unique that makes this particular gun stand out?

The OD Teflon coated slide is pretty unique for an HS2000. That is something that I would have the officer/detecive include in the report as well. Also, if you haven't given a written statement, consider doing so.

Vigilant
08-02-2011, 05:25
Hire some illegal aliens to search form it. I hear they will do things that Americans just won't do. And they work cheap.

Just a thought. :supergrin:

Mrs.Cicero
08-02-2011, 09:04
Even if you have the serial number and it is recovered, it may be a looooong tiiiiiiiime 'til you see it again. My stolen pistol was recovered 18 months ago... and it is still sitting in the evidence locker in town... while the dude they recovered it from sits in jail and the debate on what else they can charge him with continues. I think this is weird. And I really would like my gun back. Although I did use the excuse of it being gone to buy a couple more, Mr.C isn't going to let that fly again...

Mrs.Cicero

smokeross
08-02-2011, 09:57
Even if you have the serial number and it is recovered, it may be a looooong tiiiiiiiime 'til you see it again. My stolen pistol was recovered 18 months ago... and it is still sitting in the evidence locker in town... while the dude they recovered it from sits in jail and the debate on what else they can charge him with continues. I think this is weird. And I really would like my gun back. Although I did use the excuse of it being gone to buy a couple more, Mr.C isn't going to let that fly again...

Mrs.Cicero
I took 2 guns in trade for a heating system I was selling. Later sell one of them to a cop. He runs the # the next day. I get a call from the Troopers. Stolen!!! 1994 in Wasilla. I meet up with the cop I sold it to. Give him his money back. Then try to get the Troopers to go after the guy I got it from. I want my money back. I get this instead. "Well it's been so long we won't be able to ever trace it back to the thief." Case closed. Sometimes I wonder if I was scammed by the Troopers. Happened 12 months ago. Is that cop hunting with a free .458 Winchester model 70? Gotta wonder.

DaBigBR
08-02-2011, 10:33
Even if you have the serial number and it is recovered, it may be a looooong tiiiiiiiime 'til you see it again. My stolen pistol was recovered 18 months ago... and it is still sitting in the evidence locker in town... while the dude they recovered it from sits in jail and the debate on what else they can charge him with continues. I think this is weird. And I really would like my gun back. Although I did use the excuse of it being gone to buy a couple more, Mr.C isn't going to let that fly again...

Mrs.Cicero

That's nuts.

We generally photograph and return stolen property immediately.

Mrs.Cicero
08-02-2011, 10:51
That's nuts.

We generally photograph and return stolen property immediately.

Even guns? I'd ask the evidence desk whatever happened to the right to a speedy trial for the accused (only because I want my gun back, not out of any sympathy for the mope), but it's not her fault - BATF is involved somehow, and I do not know anything else about the circumstances of the recovery. For all I know he used it to kill someone and the prosecutor wants to wave the gun around at the trial. If there ever is a trial. Or maybe the prosecutor just really likes HKs and wants to play with it awhile. Whatever. I just want my pistol back before I'm too old and decrepit to shoot it.


Mrs.Cicero

txleapd
08-02-2011, 11:05
I took 2 guns in trade for a heating system I was selling. Later sell one of them to a cop. He runs the # the next day. I get a call from the Troopers. Stolen!!! 1994 in Wasilla. I meet up with the cop I sold it to. Give him his money back. Then try to get the Troopers to go after the guy I got it from. I want my money back. I get this instead. "Well it's been so long we won't be able to ever trace it back to the thief." Case closed. Sometimes I wonder if I was scammed by the Troopers. Happened 12 months ago. Is that cop hunting with a free .458 Winchester model 70? Gotta wonder.

You didn't get scammed by the troopers. I've worked similar cases. Hand to hand transactions are hard to trace, and the trail usually goes cold quickly. Almost no one identifies people they buy guns from. 16 years is a LONG time, and that gun has probably changed hands 10 times. At the least, almost no one would be able to remember who they got it from.

Not only would it be virtually impossible to track down who actually stole it, the statute of limitations probably ran out 10 years ago.

DaBigBR
08-02-2011, 11:29
Even guns? I'd ask the evidence desk whatever happened to the right to a speedy trial for the accused (only because I want my gun back, not out of any sympathy for the mope), but it's not her fault - BATF is involved somehow, and I do not know anything else about the circumstances of the recovery. For all I know he used it to kill someone and the prosecutor wants to wave the gun around at the trial. If there ever is a trial. Or maybe the prosecutor just really likes HKs and wants to play with it awhile. Whatever. I just want my pistol back before I'm too old and decrepit to shoot it.


Mrs.Cicero

I've never seen an exception. There is no real evidentiary value in keeping the gun so long as it is confirmed to be your gun. The only thing we "get" by keeping the gun is the ability to bring it from evidence and in to court and say "this is the exact gun that we took off of the person."

As far as the right to a speedy trial goes, a lot of times a defendant will waive speedy trial for one reason or another. Sometimes those rights are suspended as well, for example if a person's competency or fitness to stand trial are in question.

You didn't get scammed by the troopers. I've worked similar cases. Hand to hand transactions are hard to trace, and the trail usually goes cold quickly. Almost no one identifies people they buy guns from. 16 years is a LONG time, and that gun has probably changed hands 10 times. At the least, almost no one would be able to remember who they got it from.

Not only would it be virtually impossible to track down who actually stole it, the statute of limitations probably ran out 10 years ago.

Agreed. This is all the more reason to do FTF transactions through an FFL if you are even the least bit uncomfortable. As an officer, I would be willing to check a serial number for stolen in a FTF sale under the condition that both the selling and receiving party were present and I had actual, physical possession of the weapon when the check was performed.

Straight Pipe
08-02-2011, 15:26
I took 2 guns in trade for a heating system I was selling. Later sell one of them to a cop. He runs the # the next day. I get a call from the Troopers. Stolen!!! 1994 in Wasilla. I meet up with the cop I sold it to. Give him his money back. Then try to get the Troopers to go after the guy I got it from. I want my money back. I get this instead. "Well it's been so long we won't be able to ever trace it back to the thief." Case closed. Sometimes I wonder if I was scammed by the Troopers. Happened 12 months ago. Is that cop hunting with a free .458 Winchester model 70? Gotta wonder.

Yep. Nutt'n gets past you. :upeyes:

Mrs.Cicero
08-02-2011, 16:05
I've never seen an exception. There is no real evidentiary value in keeping the gun so long as it is confirmed to be your gun. The only thing we "get" by keeping the gun is the ability to bring it from evidence and in to court and say "this is the exact gun that we took off of the person."

As far as the right to a speedy trial goes, a lot of times a defendant will waive speedy trial for one reason or another. Sometimes those rights are suspended as well, for example if a person's competency or fitness to stand trial are in question.


Oh, it's my gun. I bought it new. I have the original receipt. I reported it stolen within 30 days of discovering it missing. Every couple months I call them and ask about it. They say, "Yeah, we still have it. No, you can't have it back until after the trial, which hasn't even had a date set. Call again in another 60 days." I was so happy when it was recovered... thinking I'd get it back... next time I call I'll ask who would have to sign off to release it and see where that takes me. I hate being a squeaky wheel...

Why on earth would anyone voluntarily waive their right to a speedy trial? I understand suspending it for a competency exam/hearings. But why waive rights voluntarily? What does that achieve?

Mrs.Cicero

txleapd
08-02-2011, 18:30
Why on earth would anyone voluntarily waive their right to a speedy trial? I understand suspending it for a competency exam/hearings. But why waive rights voluntarily? What does that achieve?

Mrs.Cicero

For starters, there's always the hope off getting off... While it may just be a pipe dream, many defendants think that stretching it out increases their chances of acquittal, or they could get offered a sweet deal due to clogged courts.

For most it's just doing all they can to delay the inevitable. County jails tend to be a little "nicer" than the State Penn. I don't think inmates are as prone to violate each other at county. Its been my understanding that the majority of inmates would like to stay at county as long as possible (especially since that time counts toward their sentence).

I've also heard rumor that the State CO's at TDCJ, here in Texas, aren't nearly as "nice" as County CO's... Unless they're in Williamson County. Those guys can't seem to get to TDCJ fast enough. :whistling:

txleapd
08-02-2011, 18:39
Every couple months I call them and ask about it. They say, "Yeah, we still have it. No, you can't have it back until after the trial, which hasn't even had a date set. Call again in another 60 days." I was so happy when it was recovered... thinking I'd get it back... next time I call I'll ask who would have to sign off to release it and see where that takes me. I hate being a squeaky wheel...

That would be the 6th Amendment, and the accused's right to 'confront' witnesses. The right to confront and cross-examine witnesses also applies to physical evidence; the prosecution must present physical evidence to the jury, providing the defense ample opportunity to cross-examine its validity and meaning. Prosecution generally may not refer to evidence without first presenting it.

The prosecution can't present evidence they don't have, because they gave it back to you.

Mrs.Cicero
08-02-2011, 18:48
That would be the 6th Amendment, and the accused's right to 'confront' witnesses. The right to confront and cross-examine witnesses also applies to physical evidence; the prosecution must present physical evidence to the jury, providing the defense ample opportunity to cross-examine its validity and meaning. Prosecution generally may not refer to evidence without first presenting it.

The prosecution can't present evidence they don't have, because they gave it back to you.

Well, hell, as the owner of the evidence, I'd like the right to negate his waiver of his right to a speedy trial, because I want my gun back. Let's call that "victim's rights" and- Cicero inserting comment - please excuse Mrs.C's fascist tendencies, she just wants more guns. :upeyes:

Never mind. Someone needs a turkey pot pit and a beer.:tongueout:

Mrs.Cicero

MeefZah
08-02-2011, 20:40
That would be the 6th Amendment, and the accused's right to 'confront' witnesses. The right to confront and cross-examine witnesses also applies to physical evidence; the prosecution must present physical evidence to the jury, providing the defense ample opportunity to cross-examine its validity and meaning. Prosecution generally may not refer to evidence without first presenting it.

The prosecution can't present evidence they don't have, because they gave it back to you.

Generally the prosecutor will consult with the defense attorney and judge in the earler stages of the case; and secure the defense attorney's stipulation that any photographs of the evidence may be used in place of the evidence. Once that happens the item is returned to the owner.

In the event the defense attorney disputes this, the item may well sit in lockup through the trial.

Or, the judge can decide that the victim's need for the item to be returned outweighs the defense attorney's objection to it being returned, and he can order it's return and the substitution of photographs for it.

redneck1861
08-02-2011, 20:52
The only thing I can reccomend is not to make blind accusations. That can be considered slander, especially since the person is the ONLY former employee, for someone that knows you personally it wouldnt be too hard to figure out who you are talking about

DaBigBR
08-02-2011, 21:22
This is always how it goes with guns...they get "special treatment" because they're guns. If I shot somebody on duty around here, I would never see my gun again. Virtually guarantee it. If I ran them over with my car, we'd have it fixed and back on the road ASAP.

Likewise, Ms. Cicero's car gets stolen and she has it back in a day or two after it's recovered. A gun, though, that sits for months.

smokeross
08-02-2011, 23:25
You didn't get scammed by the troopers. I've worked similar cases. Hand to hand transactions are hard to trace, and the trail usually goes cold quickly. Almost no one identifies people they buy guns from. 16 years is a LONG time, and that gun has probably changed hands 10 times. At the least, almost no one would be able to remember who they got it from.

Not only would it be virtually impossible to track down who actually stole it, the statute of limitations probably ran out 10 years ago.
Yes the statute of limitations may have run out for the 1994 thief, but I gave them the name, address, phone number, and place of employment, and name of his in laws business, for the creep I got it from. Even the date I got it from him. Seems they could have leaned on him a little and convinced him that it would look better for him if he refunded me like I did the cop/buddy. Could have threatened him with possession of stolen property. Nothing. Looking back I should have told the cop T.S. on the refund. Where do you think that would have got ME. Yup, Jail. Possession of stolen property.

msu_grad_121
08-02-2011, 23:44
I think you would have been okay because you didn't INTEND to receive or conceal stolen property, and as you don't have access to LEIN or whatever to check if it's stolen.

Since you lack mens rea, you didn't commit a crime. Just my .02. Of course, you still did the right thing, so good on ya.

txleapd
08-03-2011, 04:54
Generally the prosecutor will consult with the defense attorney and judge in the earler stages of the case; and secure the defense attorney's stipulation that any photographs of the evidence may be used in place of the evidence. Once that happens the item is returned to the owner.

In the event the defense attorney disputes this, the item may well sit in lockup through the trial.

Or, the judge can decide that the victim's need for the item to be returned outweighs the defense attorney's objection to it being returned, and he can order it's return and the substitution of photographs for it.

Those are options, but a lot depends on where you are and who the judge is.

I haven't seen any weapon (especially a firearm) that was used in, or the subject of, a crime be released from evidence prior to final disposition of a criminal court case.

If nothing else, prosecutors like to hold them up in front of a jury.

txleapd
08-03-2011, 05:12
Yes the statute of limitations may have run out for the 1994 thief, but I gave them the name, address, phone number, and place of employment, and name of his in laws business, for the creep I got it from. Even the date I got it from him. Seems they could have leaned on him a little and convinced him that it would look better for him if he refunded me like I did the cop/buddy. Could have threatened him with possession of stolen property. Nothing. Looking back I should have told the cop T.S. on the refund. Where do you think that would have got ME. Yup, Jail. Possession of stolen property.

Do you have the slightest shred of evidence that this "creep" knew the gun was stolen? In order for that charge to fly, he had to have intentionally, or knowingly, possessed a stolen firearm. After 16 years, the overwhelming probability is that the guy had no idea, and got the gun from some other guy, who had no idea, who got it from another guy, who had no idea, who got it from another guy, who......

Even IF this "creep" knew it was stolen, the statute of limitations for the actual theft has run out, which means the statute of limitations for possessing an item stolen in that theft has run out.

"Leaning" on this guy would go nowhere. Do you really think it reasonable for the troopers to spend reseources investigating something that they can't file charges on? For what purpose?

I understand your pissed, but your anger is misplaced. Your mad at the troopers, who can't legally do anything, and a guy who very likely didn't even have the slightest clue it was stolen. Your emotions don't trump the law. Your desires don't trump another's rights.

Take a deep breath, and try to gain a little rational perspective.

SamRudolph
08-03-2011, 06:17
That would be the 6th Amendment, and the accused's right to 'confront' witnesses. The right to confront and cross-examine witnesses also applies to physical evidence; the prosecution must present physical evidence to the jury, providing the defense ample opportunity to cross-examine its validity and meaning. Prosecution generally may not refer to evidence without first presenting it.

The prosecution can't present evidence they don't have, because they gave it back to you.

In MN, IIRC (Not a cop or lawyer, just someone who took the MN Criminal Code class) our evidentiary rules allow photographs of stolen property to be used as evidence as long as the plaintiff's lawyer has had a chance to review the evidence before it is returned.

txleapd
08-03-2011, 08:51
In MN, IIRC (Not a cop or lawyer, just someone who took the MN Criminal Code class) our evidentiary rules allow photographs of stolen property to be used as evidence as long as the plaintiff's lawyer has had a chance to review the evidence before it is returned.

Please refer to my earlier post...

Those are options, but a lot depends on where you are and who the judge is.

I haven't seen any weapon (especially a firearm) that was used in, or the subject of, a crime be released from evidence prior to final disposition of a criminal court case.

If nothing else, prosecutors like to hold them up in front of a jury.

smokeross
08-03-2011, 09:12
Do you have the slightest shred of evidence that this "creep" knew the gun was stolen? In order for that charge to fly, he had to have intentionally, or knowingly, possessed a stolen firearm. After 16 years, the overwhelming probability is that the guy had no idea, and got the gun from some other guy, who had no idea, who got it from another guy, who had no idea, who got it from another guy, who......

Even IF this "creep" knew it was stolen, the statute of limitations for the actual theft has run out, which means the statute of limitations for possessing an item stolen in that theft has run out.

"Leaning" on this guy would go nowhere. Do you really think it reasonable for the troopers to spend reseources investigating something that they can't file charges on? For what purpose?

I understand your pissed, but your anger is misplaced. Your mad at the troopers, who can't legally do anything, and a guy who very likely didn't even have the slightest clue it was stolen. Your emotions don't trump the law. Your desires don't trump another's rights.

Take a deep breath, and try to gain a little rational perspective.
Well the 2 of them (cops) sure leaned on me. Took less than 24 hours to rattle my cage. Less than 24 hours for me to refund. I was just pissed that they didn't give some of the same consideration to the guy I got it from. Never even tried, as long as 'buddy' got his money back.
I have friend who know this 'creep' and they have nothing good to say about him. I have talked to him since and he basically told me to pee up a rope. Said things that convinced me of his 'creep' status.
I've actually considered taking 'creep' to small claims court, just because he is such a turd. If he is a law abiding citizen, why wouldn't he do the right thing too, and refund me.
Sorry for hijacking this thread, just wanted to get this off my chest.:steamed:

Straight Pipe
08-03-2011, 10:05
Yes the statute of limitations may have run out for the 1994 thief, but I gave them the name, address, phone number, and place of employment, and name of his in laws business, for the creep I got it from. Even the date I got it from him. Seems they could have leaned on him a little and convinced him that it would look better for him if he refunded me like I did the cop/buddy. Could have threatened him with possession of stolen property. Nothing. Looking back I should have told the cop T.S. on the refund. Where do you think that would have got ME. Yup, Jail. Possession of stolen property.

Think about the bright side... there's a cop out there somewhere enjoying the hell out of a free .458 Winchester 70.

merlynusn
08-03-2011, 10:11
Think about the bright side... there's a cop out there somewhere enjoying the hell out of a free .458 Winchester 70.

Um no. The gun would be returned to the original owner. If the owner can't be found, the gun will be destroyed.

Smokeross, take the guy who sold you the gun and won't give you a refund to small claims court. You have enough documentation to prove you should be refunded.

Mrs. C. We had a guy who delayed his trial for over two years. He was being charged federally. Once you're convicted federally, they can transfer you anywhere in the federal penal system to serve your time (Hack, if I'm wrong, please correct me). It was simple, he wanted to stay locally and not get sent to the other side of the country. Also, the hope could be one of the officers quits or retires or just doesn't show up. You don't show up, which would make it hard to prove the gun was stolen, etc. There are many reasons to delay a trial.

txleapd
08-03-2011, 11:26
Well the 2 of them (cops) sure leaned on me. Took less than 24 hours to rattle my cage. Less than 24 hours for me to refund. I was just pissed that they didn't give some of the same consideration to the guy I got it from. Never even tried, as long as 'buddy' got his money back.
I have friend who know this 'creep' and they have nothing good to say about him. I have talked to him since and he basically told me to pee up a rope. Said things that convinced me of his 'creep' status.
I've actually considered taking 'creep' to small claims court, just because he is such a turd. If he is a law abiding citizen, why wouldn't he do the right thing too, and refund me.
Sorry for hijacking this thread, just wanted to get this off my chest.:steamed:

Your pissed, because you lost money doing the right thing, and the guy you got the gun from told you to fly a kite. I get that.

Insinuating that the cops either ripped you off, or didn't do their jobs, because they wouldn't go violate someone's civil right, or hassle him, isn't reasonable.

You have no proof this guy had anything to do with the theft, and even if you did, there is no legal way he could be prosecuted. That's not the cops' fault.

You have every right to be mad, and vent.... But when you decide to take it out on cops who didn't screw you, on a cop board, be prepared for someone to say something about it.

Mrs.Cicero
08-03-2011, 12:23
Mrs. C. We had a guy who delayed his trial for over two years. He was being charged federally. Once you're convicted federally, they can transfer you anywhere in the federal penal system to serve your time (Hack, if I'm wrong, please correct me). It was simple, he wanted to stay locally and not get sent to the other side of the country. Also, the hope could be one of the officers quits or retires or just doesn't show up. You don't show up, which would make it hard to prove the gun was stolen, etc. There are many reasons to delay a trial.

Now I get it - if the jerk knows he's going to be convicted on this, he can waive a speedy trial, serve a bunch of time locally, and when he finally gets convicted and sentenced, he's already served a bunch of his time someplace more pleasant for him than federal pen. And I'm not going to get my gun back anytime soon because the prosecutor wants to wave it dramatically at the jury, and it'll sit in the locker til trial's over. Well, at least I understand why, now. Sigh.

And I've got jury duty next month. I wonder what else I'll learn...:shocked:

Mrs.Cicero:wavey:

merlynusn
08-04-2011, 15:19
And I've got jury duty next month. I wonder what else I'll learn...:shocked:

You'll learn the system is broken. But unfortunately it's the best one there is.

And Knox... don't feel bad, my unmarked got broken into last night while I was eating. I figured if I parked it by the front door under a light it would be good. Apparently I was wrong.... Guess I should have just gone back to the office to eat dinner instead of going out.

Straight Pipe
08-05-2011, 17:16
Um no. The gun would be returned to the original owner. If the owner can't be found, the gun will be destroyed.

Smokeross, take the guy who sold you the gun and won't give you a refund to small claims court. You have enough documentation to prove you should be refunded.

Mrs. C. We had a guy who delayed his trial for over two years. He was being charged federally. Once you're convicted federally, they can transfer you anywhere in the federal penal system to serve your time (Hack, if I'm wrong, please correct me). It was simple, he wanted to stay locally and not get sent to the other side of the country. Also, the hope could be one of the officers quits or retires or just doesn't show up. You don't show up, which would make it hard to prove the gun was stolen, etc. There are many reasons to delay a trial.

Go back and reread post # 13 and this time try and pay attention. :upeyes:

old_pigpen
08-05-2011, 17:42
Why on earth would anyone voluntarily waive their right to a speedy trial? I understand suspending it for a competency exam/hearings. But why waive rights voluntarily? What does that achieve? Mrs.Cicero

Around here, some criminal defense attorneys use it to "judge shop" if they know their client is guilty. They find out which judge has been assigned to their client's case. If they feel that judge will be more sympathetic to their client, they will have their client waive their right to a jury trial and plead guity or no contest, and be sentenced. If they don't like the judge, they will have their client waive their right to a speedy trial, then they go back in the queue and wait for the next time the case is assigned to start the game over again.

Mrs.Cicero
08-05-2011, 21:54
Around here, some criminal defense attorneys use it to "judge shop" if they know their client is guilty. They find out which judge has been assigned to their client's case. If they feel that judge will be more sympathetic to their client, they will have their client waive their right to a jury trial and plead guity or no contest, and be sentenced. If they don't like the judge, they will have their client waive their right to a speedy trial, then they go back in the queue and wait for the next time the case is assigned to start the game over again.

Good grief. :upeyes:

My laugh for this evening was Mr.C telling me no atty would ever let me sit on a jury because as an NRA endowment member who has been a crime victim, but whose gun is still being held hostage by the courts, and who believes in jury nullification, that prosecutors are corrupt and defense atty's are lazy and stupid, and therefore has issues with everyone...
Well, if they screw around like that for the judge, I'm going to love jury selection.

Mrs.Cicero:rofl:

DaBigBR
08-06-2011, 20:25
Good grief. :upeyes:

My laugh for this evening was Mr.C telling me no atty would ever let me sit on a jury because as an NRA endowment member who has been a crime victim, but whose gun is still being held hostage by the courts, and who believes in jury nullification, that prosecutors are corrupt and defense atty's are lazy and stupid, and therefore has issues with everyone...
Well, if they screw around like that for the judge, I'm going to love jury selection.

Mrs.Cicero:rofl:

That all sounds well and good until you get called for a civil case.

Mrs.Cicero
08-07-2011, 12:05
That all sounds well and good until you get called for a civil case.

Even that might be fun. More fun than homeschooling my youngest when she's on a tear, anyway. Children are God's punishment for enjoying sex, according to my mother.

I'll bet I'm not going to be allowed to do this anyway, because we just accepted an offer on our house and we have to be out of here by 8/31 - and therefore we will be living in another county in Sept. This happened the last time I got called like 20 years ago - we moved out of state beforehand. Sigh.


Mrs.Cicero

mikegun
08-08-2011, 15:10
Oh, it's my gun. I bought it new. I have the original receipt. I reported it stolen within 30 days of discovering it missing. Every couple months I call them and ask about it. They say, "Yeah, we still have it. No, you can't have it back until after the trial, which hasn't even had a date set. Call again in another 60 days." I was so happy when it was recovered... thinking I'd get it back... next time I call I'll ask who would have to sign off to release it and see where that takes me. I hate being a squeaky wheel...

Why on earth would anyone voluntarily waive their right to a speedy trial? I understand suspending it for a competency exam/hearings. But why waive rights voluntarily? What does that achieve?

Mrs.Cicero

Hi, my thought is if the BG used your gun in a crime they may wish to keep it till trial, speedy trial is waived for a number of reasons, getting rid if whits. or getting them to change minds being 2...

knoxvegasdaddy
08-11-2011, 12:20
Update- I'm out of options. Intrac (the importer), is out of business. I don't know the original purchasers name. Tim ford of ballistic tool works, who did the Teflon job, is also out of business (or at least his store is closed and I can't find him) my last hope was that he would have a work order with the serial number on it.
If anyone from TN knows or knows the whereabouts of Tim Ford, please do p.m. me.

Thanks for the help! Much appreciated.