Vintage, but . . . [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Morris
08-02-2011, 01:39
Still cool to watch. Yeah, we've evolved, SOMEWHAT.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_BxQSxnD1g&feature=relmfu

Sniff
08-02-2011, 04:09
Back before they discovered what those little lumps and notches on top of guns were for!

pgg00
08-02-2011, 06:11
I kind a like those old cars

Agent6-3/8
08-02-2011, 07:56
Thanks for posting! I always get a kick out of old videos like that.

DaBigBR
08-02-2011, 09:00
Some of the stances, tactics, etc that the video shows are outdated, but for the most part the points they make about use of cover, the dangers of ricochets, etc are still valid.

Morris
08-02-2011, 11:43
Yes, which is why I emphasized somewhat. What is telling is the pronouncement back then of more cops being killed by gunfire.

On a side note, at my first department, I was cleaning out a space and came across a box of those old brick radios, neck/shoulder strap and all.

Fun to see the .38s in use and hear "some agencies are now allowing for shotguns to be carries in police cars."

Bodyarmorguy
08-02-2011, 12:03
I could be wrong, but at the 11:47 mark in the video it shows a close up of what looks like a very early design "Rogers" holster. IIRC Bill Rogers was a FBI Agent first before going into the holster business then eventually collaborating with Safariland on his designs.

Morris
08-02-2011, 12:18
I thought so too.

I showed parts of the video to one of our younger officers. He was amazed at the drop/swivel holster, size of the radio, etc.

captcurly
08-02-2011, 16:04
Thanks for the trip back in time for me. I got on the job in July of 1964 and this video brings back some old time good memories. I was issued a S&W Mod.10 4" heavy barrel. Hey,guys this is the way it use to be and I think we did a good job with what we had. Now you can see how training was and how it is today. I will say that bouncing OO buck was a real nasty for the bad guy.Good Luck to you all and be safe out there. I am old school and proud of it.

captcurly
08-02-2011, 16:07
I could be wrong, but at the 11:47 mark in the video it shows a close up of what looks like a very early design "Rogers" holster. IIRC Bill Rogers was a FBI Agent first before going into the holster business then eventually collaborating with Safariland on his designs.

You are correct Bodyarmorguy about the Rodgers. I actually had one and it was a good holster. I started on a Mod.10 and then two years later the Dept. went with the S&W Mod.15 4inch. The Rodgers holster was a top end non leather rig. Thanks for memory.

Morris
08-02-2011, 16:34
Thanks for the trip back in time for me. I got on the job in July of 1964 and this video brings back some old time good memories. I was issued a S&W Mod.10 4" heavy barrel. Hey,guys this is the way it use to be and I think we did a good job with what we had. Now you can see how training was and how it is today. I will say that bouncing OO buck was a real nasty for the bad guy.Good Luck to you all and be safe out there. I am old school and proud of it.

Thank you for leading the way! Your old school service is certainly appreciate by me and others in this field.

In many ways, officers of the time were more gun saavy, actually had a higher hit percentage, had shooting leagues that were popular and so on.

Bodyarmorguy
08-02-2011, 16:37
You are correct Bodyarmorguy about the Rodgers. I actually had one and it was a good holster. I started on a Mod.10 and then two years later the Dept. went with the S&W Mod.15 4inch. The Rodgers holster was a top end non leather rig. Thanks for memory.

Yeah, I am kind of a vintage holster nut. I have a couple of Safety Speed Clamshell (pop-open) holsters for med-frame revolvers, a couple of Ted Blocker swivel holsters for 1911's and a few other goodies from Davis, Rodgers and others.

I think some of those videos were still being shown when I was in the academy in 1984.

collim1
08-02-2011, 20:16
Say what you want about capacity, but the feel of a .357mag revolver just seems right to me.

I shoot a DA revolver better than anything else, 6 shots or not. I would definately carry a SW 686 7 shot at work.

The video might seem corny at first, but the basics are the same. only thing I noticed is shooting over cover, I have always been taught to shoot to the side of cover, not over the top of it.

MeefZah
08-02-2011, 21:02
There is some good info in there...

..presented in a campy manner! :rofl: I guess it was the mid-60s.

My random thoughts:

Always amazed to see cops on the beat in what are, essentially, Class A uniforms, like the DC cop in the first scenario.

I love the game warden, shaking his head in annoyance as he is pinned down by a shooter.

Impressive turning radius on the old cruisers...

I take it the way that shottys used to be carried was chamber empty, hammer cocked; as opposed to chamber empty, hammer forward which we currently use?

Does anyone use shotgun hip shooting in a qualification course? We don't...

I see some of the shooters on the range were pocketing their brass instead of letting it fall... tisk, tisk...

Morris
08-03-2011, 10:58
Again, we evolved. Brass in pockets - What did The Onion Field teach us?

For the time, that was training videos, without glitz and special effects. They were revolutionary in that training movies were even being created for a mass LE audience.

Collim1, you aren't the first to say that about revolvers. There are a few at my agency who wish they could carry their 686s or 66s. They "grew up" on them and that is what they still fire best.

MeefZah
08-03-2011, 12:18
Again, we evolved. Brass in pockets - What did The Onion Field teach us?

Was that an issue with the Onion Field, too?

I was thinking Newhall. Although this article does not specifically mention it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newhall_massacre

Morris
08-03-2011, 15:12
The Onion Field was the story of Newhall. I remember the book vividly as it was required by my first chief (a former LASD major) to read it and give him a book report before I could get off FTO.

A great idea, by the way. Wish we could incorporate a similar idea into our FTO program.

ateamer
08-03-2011, 17:22
The Onion Field was the story of Newhall. I remember the book vividly as it was required by my first chief (a former LASD major) to read it and give him a book report before I could get off FTO.

A great idea, by the way. Wish we could incorporate a similar idea into our FTO program.
Newhall and the Onion Field were two different incidents. Newhall was the gunfight where four CHP officers were murdered. It led to changes in firearms training like not putting empty brass in your pockets. The Onion Field was two LAPD officers who were kidnapped, and one was murdered. That led to training to never give up your gun, etc.

Sam Spade
08-03-2011, 17:43
I take it the way that shottys used to be carried was chamber empty, hammer cocked; as opposed to chamber empty, hammer forward which we currently use?

Yes, and still is here. Reasoning is that anyone who grabs it knows to rack a shotgun, which you can do with the hammer forward. Some mutt might not know where the release is, and he can't just rack the gun if it's already cocked/chamber empty.

captcurly
08-03-2011, 18:18
Thank you for leading the way! Your old school service is certainly appreciate by me and others in this field.

In many ways, officers of the time were more gun saavy, actually had a higher hit percentage, had shooting leagues that were popular and so on.

Thanks for the kind words Morris. I am very proud of what I did and what you active guys are doing. You are correct about us being gunsters in the mid 60s. We did have shooting leagues and we were a close knit community. In those days we did not care were you were from or what dept. you were with. A cop was a cop and that is all that counted. I hope it is still this way. I retired 17 years ago after doing 30 but I still have the cop mentality. Now I am just an old retired guy that still likes hanging out with cops. God Bless all you guys.

ateamer
08-03-2011, 18:40
Thanks for the kind words Morris. I am very proud of what I did and what you active guys are doing. You are correct about us being gunsters in the mid 60s. We did have shooting leagues and we were a close knit community. In those days we did not care were you were from or what dept. you were with. A cop was a cop and that is all that counted. I hope it is still this way. I retired 17 years ago after doing 30 but I still have the cop mentality. Now I am just an old retired guy that still likes hanging out with cops. God Bless all you guys.
It's still that way around here, at least for most agencies.

Morris
08-03-2011, 22:37
Ateamer:

Correct sir. Had to dig out my old paperback to refresh my feeble mind. So much for that book report! (dang, I need more coffee . . . ).

pal2511
08-04-2011, 01:04
Do you guys have a link to those two books? I want to read them..

ateamer
08-04-2011, 02:30
The Onion Field is by Joseph Wambaugh. It should be available on Amazon.

Morris
08-04-2011, 10:59
I like the issues the film brought up about riccochets. Funny how that physics still exists, and we sometimes forget that.

bccop
08-04-2011, 18:44
I like how they explain the risk of richocets and then they show officers resting their firearm on the cover so the firearm and hand are exposed and forward of cover (resting wrist on cover). Even better was the stance and shooting above cover. Firearms training has come a long way.

DaBigBR
08-04-2011, 20:05
I like the issues the film brought up about riccochets. Funny how that physics still exists, and we sometimes forget that.

Even more valid today with bonded ammunition.

ateamer
08-05-2011, 14:37
Good article from Paul Howe about use of cover.

http://www.combatshootingandtactics.com/published/the_myth_of_cover_07.pdf