FTO aint all its cracked up to be.... [Archive] - Glock Talk

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cowboywannabe
08-02-2011, 12:27
in fact its a pain in the keister.

its hot as hell and im in the jump seat. no room for my Cool-Cop, takes a lot longer to cool down since i dont have it installed and cant hog the A/C vents all to myself....plus having to run to every call for the new guy's exposure.....plus having to do my shift supervisor admin work, plus running the city jail, having to log onto a different computor to my admin profile to check reports, plus day shift, well errand ***** is more the term for the work done.....

im finished *****ing.

thanks.:wavey:

RussP
08-02-2011, 12:44
Well, as has been advised by many who know your job better than you, "If you can't stand the pressure, if you're not up to taking the heat, then find another damn job!!!"

:animlol: Sorry, I HAD TO!!! :animlol:

cowboywannabe
08-02-2011, 12:47
FTO was fun on nights and in the winter when i was a patrolman, but as a Sgt. this blows! i wish i had a choice but i get the trainees that have "problems" to see if they are the problem or their previous FTO.

Morris
08-02-2011, 15:15
I have managed to go 16 years without being pointed/directed/strongly encouraged to be a FTO.

Have the academy in November . . . after being pointed to/directed by/strongly encourage to attend.

This should be fun. :)

jolly roger
08-02-2011, 18:33
I was an FTO for 9 years. With a couple of newbies it was some of the worst stress I have ever endured as a Police Officer. It ain't for everybody...At least our department listened to us when one needed canning. The documentation required when you have a problem child is extreme. I'd rather be in charge of a major homicide frankly...

collim1
08-02-2011, 19:01
I hate training. I am a notorious perfectionist. It is tough for me to allow someone to make mistakes for the sake of learning. I tend to take over and push the rookie aside, which is counter productive to the training process.

I do however enjoy the company, especially on night shift.

361cop
08-02-2011, 19:29
I totally agree that being and Sgt and FTO really blow chunks.

IMO Sgt's should not be FTO's. We are already over whelemed with daily duties as it is.

I have a trainee right now and since I am day shift supervisor, it's very hard to get time to go on the road with all the 'tasks' given by higher ups.

Then they have the guts to ask when is the trainee going to get cut loose, argh!!!!

DaBigBR
08-02-2011, 21:38
I've done a fair amount of training, but have never been to a formal FTO school. I'm also something of a perfectionist and I think that the absolute most difficult thing to do is just sit there and watch them **** up.

Goldstar225
08-02-2011, 22:07
I'm the field training coordinator for my agency. I said it before I had the position and I'll say it now, a good FTO is more important to the development of a new officer than any other person in the department. Most people can teach the "routine", the right FTO can teach them how to be a cop. So far we've had good support for the FTO's, the rookies who can't or shouldn't be in the job have been weeded out. My biggest problem is that my best FTO's keep getting promoted or moved to special assignments. That's as it should be but I hate to see them go, they molded some good young officers.

Cowboywannabe I can relate, it's tough supervising and training at the same time. Our Sergeants used to do the check ride. That's in the past now, the FTO's conduct the checkrides.

Agent6-3/8
08-02-2011, 23:00
No doubt its a tough gig. I know when I was on FTO I ways felt sort of bad for "old dad" as I created a lot of extra work for him. :supergrin:



I have to say though, one of my career goals is to be a training officer. You can't save the world, but I think we all want to be able to look back on our lives and careers and know we've done some good along the way. In the grand scheme of things, mentoring and creating good officers is one of the most rewarding things one can do. The academy may give a rookie the basic technical skills to be a police officer, but its the FTO role to teach them how to be a cop. A department is only as good as its training officers.

Yarddog(1)
08-03-2011, 08:46
Is it worth the EXTRA $100 a month??
Y/D

RetailNinja
08-03-2011, 09:36
I was too awesome on FTO to NRT, so I think that at least two of my FTOs were looking for places to dump my body.

I can be hard on a supervisor.

Cav
08-03-2011, 11:17
Is it worth the EXTRA $100 a month??
Y/D

My agency pays nothing extra for being an FTO. You get a week of training out of it, thats what you get, and a little more overtime to finish reports (an hour maybe).

The deal where I work for the FTO is the first few weeks are all in house training. The field work starts on the 3rd week, that third week is two weeks of the FTO showing the rookie how its done nd slowly letting the rookie take over. By the 7th week a supervisor should just be a passenger, observing or evaluating.

Trick is get a few reports, and while the rookie works on his stuff, you work on your stuff.

At my work the supervisor can pick most of the calls. Get with dispatch, and take the simple reports, or go for the major crimes. IMHO a supervisor should not have a rookie untill at least 7 weeks into training (or just do evals). By then the rookie should have an idea of what they are doing and you dont get caught up doing as much work.

But at my job we have have more than one supervisor on a shift and can pass some of our duties if training.

Morris
08-03-2011, 15:15
My agency pays nothing extra for being an FTO. You get a week of training out of it, thats what you get, and a little more overtime to finish reports (an hour maybe).

Ouch. At least our contract specifies that while you serve as an FTO, you get an extra 5% pay. It was developed to encourage good folks to put in for it and to compensate some small way for all the extra paperwork, headaches and so on.

It took some time but we've developed a solid program that actually does a very good job at weeding out folks. To my chief's credit, if FTOs collectively recommend that someone be bounced, he will support the decision. The key is honest FTO evaluations and assessments. In the past, some have not been which has led to some unpleasantness.

rookie1
08-03-2011, 15:36
I also would like to be an FTO some day. I m not even close to having enough time on to put in for it but in a few years I'll put in for it. Our department used to give $5 a day for a FTO with a probationer. Now its slightly over $20 a day. With about 19+ work days a month thats around $380 a month. Some say its worth it, some say its not even close. Some day.

Sharkey
08-03-2011, 17:01
FTO for 3 years and I gotta say, I really enjoyed it. We didn't get paid extra and we weren't supervisors though we could be an acting supervisor if they were short handed and we didn't have a recruit.

I think it is pretty important and took it pretty seriously. I left for another gig and when we had another opening, I reached out to my old dept. and got one of my old recruits hired on. It was funny, he was twice my size and said every time he got in the squad, I scared the crap out of him. :rofl:

I had one guy fall asleep on days the first day of training and he came from another agency. I was hot. I told the FTO Sgt. that we could probably find better. They kept him and he is marginal at best. Oh well.........

ateamer
08-03-2011, 17:18
I was an FTO for a total of six years and 33 trainees. It was one of the most rewarding things I've ever done in my life, and one of the most stressful. The payoff is when one of my former trainees becomes a detective or becomes an FTO himself, or just makes a great case against some crook. I made some close friendships that are there for life, and that is worth hundreds of times the cost in stress and late nights.

Bruce M
08-03-2011, 18:29
Well, as has been advised by many who know your job better than you, "If you can't stand the pressure, if you're not up to taking the heat, then find another damn job!!!"

:animlol: Sorry, I HAD TO!!! :animlol: :rofl::rofl:



F T O ?? Feed This Officer ?

ateamer
08-03-2011, 18:41
FTO=
For
The
Overtime

JC2317
08-03-2011, 18:51
I was a FTO for several classes, almost two full years. Although the first few weeks of each class were rough, it was the most rewarding experience I had while on the job. I agree, it is the most important part of the job. The academy does not teach a young officer to be a "Cop", FTO's and senior officers who give a damn do. I have had the privelege of seeing some of my baby faced rookies go on to become detectives, bomb squad techs, narcotics investigators and supervisors.

It is the part of the job I miss the most.

cowboywannabe
08-03-2011, 19:02
i like FTOing a guy who is a go getter, wants to police.....when i dont have a shift to run at the same time.

i dont get crap in extra pay for it, its a sucker's move to be an FTO and not get any compensation for it, and a double sucker to do it as a shift supervisor....but the chief does not want two of the FTOs to train him for lets say, he dont think their worth a flip as FTOs, and the trainee has already been with one FTO and is not catching on.....i gots me orders so i march on....

this poor sap with me now has been reading the news paper and biting his finger nails for about 1.5 weeks now because i have to return to station for this and that.......all the damn time.

ateamer
08-03-2011, 19:38
When you are tied up with something that doesn't have any training value for your boot, give him a training assignment. Have him study a policy, or procedure, or give him a mock report to write. Have him take a weekly written test when he wasn't expecting it. Have write up a roll call training presentation on some topic, like Miranda, search of vehicles after arrest or booking versus cite and release - something that will have him doing some basic research on a relevant topic, and will have to up to date. If you have him developing roll call training, have him present it to the shift later that week. It's a good boost for the trainee's self-confidence to speak to the shift, especially when he has to take command of the room and train experienced officers on something, and everyone can benefit by making sure that they have the latest case law on the topic. If the officers razz him or refuse to participate, then they need a tuneup from the watch commander - this job is about results and success, not about protecting fragile egos and machismo.

Cochese
08-03-2011, 19:57
I just put in to be an FTO.

cowboywannabe
08-03-2011, 20:11
ateamer, that would be great if i wasnt answering calls to.

i might be trying to quickly type in the vehicle mntc write up logs on a computer, and while trying to get the trainee on something i get a call of a burglar alarm and have to run out of the door in the middle of what im doing....cant take time to do my work AND teach him.

things move too fast in a small department with inadequate manpower......i cant teach while the patrolmen answer calls, i am one of the "patrolmen".

EODLRD
08-03-2011, 20:21
I totally agree that being and Sgt and FTO really blow chunks.

IMO Sgt's should not be FTO's. We are already over whelemed with daily duties as it is.


Ding ding ding: we have a winner!

If I hear one more time, "you are the Sgt, you don't do anything." I swear, i'm gonna pistol whip someone.

You know why you rarely see me during shift? Cause I am to ******* busy taking care of everything the higher ups want & covering your *** & all the other guys' too.

Anyway, I enjoy it. :)

Hack
08-03-2011, 21:57
The one thing about where I am at, no formal FTO. What we do have is OJT for a year including the time for academy for the rooks, which means when they are not at academy we all train the rooks, who are assigned with us at any given time. We have training positions per policy, and part of that is to be on special assignment, and used as needed in any position that they are not disqualified from working their first year. But, I suppose the downside is that we don't get to develop a relationship with the rooks, unless they are assigned to the same officers on a routine basis.

pal2511
08-04-2011, 03:25
Is it worth the EXTRA $100 a month??
Y/D

You get paid EXTRA to be a FTO? News to me :)

rookie1
08-05-2011, 22:36
At my department, if your a trainee you are not to talk until your a year on. You can say a few things but while your on FTO your best to talk to your FTO and only speak when spoken too. My department is laid back but still there is a unwritten rule to just shut up while on FTO. Example: The Sgt. in charge for all the FTO's asked to the whole watch meeting "where is Officer xxxxx at?" The new guy heard this and while handing her his taser answered "He was in the locker room". He turned and walked away out of sight. The Sgt. said to the rest of us "Why the f--- if he talking to me". No one makes a big deal out of it but it works better if you just be seen and not heard.

Cochese
08-05-2011, 22:50
At my department, if your a trainee you are not to talk until your a year on. You can say a few things but while your on FTO your best to talk to your FTO and only speak when spoken too. My department is laid back but still there is a unwritten rule to just shut up while on FTO. Example: The Sgt. in charge for all the FTO's asked to the whole watch meeting "where is Officer xxxxx at?" The new guy heard this and while handing her his taser answered "He was in the locker room". He turned and walked away out of sight. The Sgt. said to the rest of us "Why the f--- if he talking to me". No one makes a big deal out of it but it works better if you just be seen and not heard.

That is a terrible way to run a training program.

Sharky7
08-05-2011, 22:56
That is a terrible way to run a training program.

I agree. You need people who are educated, can problem solve, and communicate on this job. This nonsense might have worked in the 1930's, but it has no place in today's police.

Also...Cochese. Your new avatar is creeping me out.

Cochese
08-05-2011, 23:04
Also...Cochese. Your new avatar is creeping me out.

Henry Swanson's my name, and excitement's my game.

ateamer
08-06-2011, 04:54
At my department, if your a trainee you are not to talk until your a year on. You can say a few things but while your on FTO your best to talk to your FTO and only speak when spoken too. My department is laid back but still there is a unwritten rule to just shut up while on FTO. Example: The Sgt. in charge for all the FTO's asked to the whole watch meeting "where is Officer xxxxx at?" The new guy heard this and while handing her his taser answered "He was in the locker room". He turned and walked away out of sight. The Sgt. said to the rest of us "Why the f--- if he talking to me". No one makes a big deal out of it but it works better if you just be seen and not heard.
What a bunch of bull****. Trainees are deputies and officers just like the rest of us; they just don't have as much experience. Their badges aren't any different, and they don't deserve to be treated like idiots. FTOs, sergeants and other ranking officers who allow that to perpetuate have no business pretending to be leaders.

4949shooter
08-06-2011, 05:08
I have done FTO while being in a supervisory position at the same time. Not as a sergeant, but as a senior Tpr. I (corporal) with a lot of administrative duties. It was frustrating, because I had all of my admin duties to take care of, for example my TAC officer, station wrecker coordinator, vehicle book, and shotgun cleaning duties to handle all while trying to train a recruit. Sometimes I think it would have been better if someone else had stepped up to the plate. One way or another though, my recruits all turned out okay.

When our recruits graduate, they are taught to go through their FTO's initially for everything they need. This is how we teach them chain of command. They also have an ongoing contact with their assistant station commander, who is to sit down with them weekly and discuss any issues they may have. By and large though, the recruits are to be "seen and not heard." They are not permitted to be "one of the guys" until they graduate from the FTO program. When I ran my squad, the recruits were not permitted to eat with the rest of the squad. I always made them sit on the desk and answer the phones while the squad ate in the lunch room. I know it sounds cold, but when they graduated from FTO and were permitted to eat with the squad, it was like a right of passage which they earned. Then I gave them my "Everyone has to cross a river under fire for the first time" speech from the John Wayne movie "She Wore a Yellow Ribbon." I truly believe to this day that the recruits appreciated it in the end, as well as the squad. Welcome to the squad...you earned it.

Agent6-3/8
08-06-2011, 08:31
At my department, if your a trainee you are not to talk until your a year on. You can say a few things but while your on FTO your best to talk to your FTO and only speak when spoken too. My department is laid back but still there is a unwritten rule to just shut up while on FTO. Example: The Sgt. in charge for all the FTO's asked to the whole watch meeting "where is Officer xxxxx at?" The new guy heard this and while handing her his taser answered "He was in the locker room". He turned and walked away out of sight. The Sgt. said to the rest of us "Why the f--- if he talking to me". No one makes a big deal out of it but it works better if you just be seen and not heard.

I came up like this and was even worse. We had to cut the grass, mop the floors, empty the trash and what ever other dirty detail they felt like dumping on us. I've been called in to work on my day off to weed the flower beds. Like your department this lasted a year, perhaps more if they were slowing getting another class through the academy. Most of this IMO, is be cause the department is too cheap to fire people to do the work. The other part is dicking with the boots just because you can.

I quite honestly get pissed off just thinking about it. Its complete and utter bull****. You spend 30 weeks busting your ass during the academy. You finally get out and find your coworkers treat you worse than the criminals you're putting in jail. You're more stressed out and worried about somehow offending someone around the office than getting hurt on the streets. Crap like this not only gets in teh way of getting work done, but more importantly
officer safety suffers when your recruits are more worried about an ass ripping from a coworker than the turds on the street.

On a persoanl note...I'm not an idiot, not at all. I resent the **** out of being treated like one. Especially when its just for their sadistic pleasure. I don't expect to be "one of the guys" right off. Nor do I want to be. I expect to have to earn the trust and respect of my coworkers. With that said, I don't think a little dignity is too much to ask for. At least give your recruits a work enviroment where they can feel free to ask questions and learn.


Sorry for the rant... :rant:

ateamer
08-06-2011, 14:48
A few years back, I noticed that we had started including trainees as part of the shift right from Day 1. They did not have to sit in the extra chairs reserved for ridealongs and civilian employees like before, they were expected to be part of the conversation at roll call, they were the one who talked about what the car did the previous night, and at least once during field training, they'd be in front of the shift presenting roll call training. Once they had a few weeks on, they'd be the one calling the sergeant with questions instead of the FTO calling. If they were there late writing reports, the FTO stayed with them and was available for questions. The only holdover from the past was that trainees weren't allowed to socialize with FTOs and other permanent deputies off duty, but there were occasional exceptions to that, as a number of trainees come from the jail and are already part of the department.

When trainees who are treated like that get out on their own, they have been much more effective, self-sufficient, resourceful and less badge-heavy. Morale is much higher than it used to be and better work is being done.

Cochese
08-06-2011, 15:48
A few years back, I noticed that we had started including trainees as part of the shift right from Day 1. They did not have to sit in the extra chairs reserved for ridealongs and civilian employees like before, they were expected to be part of the conversation at roll call, they were the one who talked about what the car did the previous night, and at least once during field training, they'd be in front of the shift presenting roll call training. Once they had a few weeks on, they'd be the one calling the sergeant with questions instead of the FTO calling. If they were there late writing reports, the FTO stayed with them and was available for questions. The only holdover from the past was that trainees weren't allowed to socialize with FTOs and other permanent deputies off duty, but there were occasional exceptions to that, as a number of trainees come from the jail and are already part of the department.

When trainees who are treated like that get out on their own, they have been much more effective, self-sufficient, resourceful and less badge-heavy. Morale is much higher than it used to be and better work is being done.

Much more eloquent than me. I would tell that ***** sergeant right the **** off if I saw her treat a new employee that way.

Milltown
08-06-2011, 17:37
How long is your guy's FTO training period, I'm suppose to do 80 hours.

Goldendog Redux
08-06-2011, 17:48
Can't stand the "old school" BS which really is not prevalent around my office. On the other hand, new boots just off of FTO getting brand new cars and acting like they have been around forever in pretty damn annoying too.

MF

Cochese
08-06-2011, 17:56
How long is your guy's FTO training period, I'm suppose to do 80 hours.

:faint:

About eighty hours.

A week. For 16 weeks.

Can't stand the "old school" BS which really is not prevalent around my office. On the other hand, new boots just off of FTO getting brand new cars and acting like they have been around forever in pretty damn annoying too.

MF

Yep. There is a happy medium.

New guys that take my car get a quick lesson in seniority.

Goldendog Redux
08-06-2011, 18:00
:faint:

About eighty hours.

A week. For 16 weeks.



Yep. There is a happy medium.

New guys that take my car get a quick lesson in seniority.

We have assigned cars and I would probably have a reasonably newer unit if the guy in charge of assigning cars was not a fat, repulsive, sycophantic, douchy troll.

Did I just say that or did I think it?

Morris
08-06-2011, 19:16
Entry levels are a minimum of three months, laterals are six weeks. And if a trainee has something constructive to say, then they are encouraged to say it. Of course, we're small enough that we can sit around a table at a diner to have roll call . . .

Treating your trainees like manual labor in these parts is a sure fire way to get your ass in a wringer. The most menial job they may have while waiting for an academy slot is to do data entry on the report system. They get to understand the computer and be much more ready post academy. But that is about it.

DaBigBR
08-06-2011, 19:33
At my department, if your a trainee you are not to talk until your a year on. You can say a few things but while your on FTO your best to talk to your FTO and only speak when spoken too. My department is laid back but still there is a unwritten rule to just shut up while on FTO. Example: The Sgt. in charge for all the FTO's asked to the whole watch meeting "where is Officer xxxxx at?" The new guy heard this and while handing her his taser answered "He was in the locker room". He turned and walked away out of sight. The Sgt. said to the rest of us "Why the f--- if he talking to me". No one makes a big deal out of it but it works better if you just be seen and not heard.

That is a terrible way to run a training program.

What a bunch of bull****. Trainees are deputies and officers just like the rest of us; they just don't have as much experience. Their badges aren't any different, and they don't deserve to be treated like idiots. FTOs, sergeants and other ranking officers who allow that to perpetuate have no business pretending to be leaders.

I'm familiar with the individual about whom he speaks. It's probably part hazing and part general crabbiness. This is one of those folks where you never know which personality you're going to get.