U.S. loses AAA credit rating from S&P [Archive] - Glock Talk

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LongGun1
08-05-2011, 18:39
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/08/06/us-usa-debt-downgrade-idUSTRE7746VF20110806



S&P cut the long-term U.S. credit rating by one notch to AA-plus on concerns about growing budget deficits.

U.S. Treasuries, once undisputedly seen as the safest investment in the world, are now rated lower than bonds issued by countries such as the UK, Germany, France or Canada.

DoctaGlockta
08-05-2011, 18:49
Tipping point fellows.

This scheisse gets real now.

Batten down the hatches Gents.

wrenrj1
08-05-2011, 18:52
Aren't these the same credit agencies that gave Fannie and Freddie AAA ratings?

Who owns THEM by the way?

ArmoryDoc
08-05-2011, 19:00
Just one more nail in a nearly sealed coffin. :whistling:

LongGun1
08-05-2011, 19:02
Aren't these the same credit agencies that gave Fannie and Freddie AAA ratings?

Who owns THEM by the way?


You can spin this anyway you like..

..but many that did not want to "throw rocks in glass houses"..

..now are prepared to do just that! :whistling:


Though we have seen a few bumps in recent times..

..this could be the start of a very nasty ride....better hold on tight! :shocked:

Aceman
08-05-2011, 19:06
Again - who knows. Who cares

+ The leadership; Dem/repub/Tea everyone demonstrated complete failure.
- These ARE the people who missed EVERY major scandal in history
+ We aren't responsible, we deserve it
- Have you read the definition of AA; Pretty favorable description. AAA is ridiculously good.
+ They are just doing their job
- They are helping eff the economy because it doesn't really matter. at the point serious default occurs, we are all effed anyhow. So they could say AAA and make everything positive or say AA and help screw us all more.

All I know is that I will NEVER help another democratic or Republican get into office. I am for the demise of the large banks and will not give them my money any more ever. and the market is broke and useless foolishness that needs to be seriously re-engineered.

kirgi08
08-05-2011, 19:07
It's begun.'08.

cowboy1964
08-05-2011, 19:26
From everything I hear Canada is doing pretty well these days. Maybe Obama should figure out what they're doing right.

LongGun1
08-05-2011, 19:57
From everything I hear Canada is doing pretty well these days. Maybe Obama should figure out what they're doing right.


Well, for starters they did not elect him & his posse of Alinsky-ists! :rofl: :supergrin:

grasshoppa
08-05-2011, 21:29
Maybe, just maybe, this will motivate the politicians to get real about debt reduction.





Yeah, wishful thinking.

Bilbo Bagins
08-05-2011, 21:30
Again - who knows. Who cares

+ The leadership; Dem/repub/Tea everyone demonstrated complete failure.
- These ARE the people who missed EVERY major scandal in history
+ We aren't responsible, we deserve it
- Have you read the definition of AA; Pretty favorable description. AAA is ridiculously good.
+ They are just doing their job
- They are helping eff the economy because it doesn't really matter. at the point serious default occurs, we are all effed anyhow. So they could say AAA and make everything positive or say AA and help screw us all more.

All I know is that I will NEVER help another democratic or Republican get into office. I am for the demise of the large banks and will not give them my money any more ever. and the market is broke and useless foolishness that needs to be seriously re-engineered.


They are just doing there job. However its a vote of "No confidence" and makes investment in US Bonds, less attractive, and may cause countries like China and the UK to sell off.

Its the begining of UGLY. What saved us today from another drop in the stock market was the decent unemployment numbers. Personally I think those books were cooked, but regardless what is happening is the USA credit card has just raised our interest rate because we are a deemed as becoming a higher risk. If China, Japan and the UK stop buying Treasuries, we have officially maxed out the credit card. The market may FREAK on Monday so be ready. We need a 2nd debt bill FAST, and something SERIOUS that includes tax hikes and DEEP DEEP cuts in spending.

If not the economy is going to grind to a halt, and we will be force to print even more money to survive.

We will get stagflation if we are lucky, if not it will be a full blown economic collapse.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stagflation

We are in a Pickle ladies and gents. I hope you are all prepped. Get food, keep the powder dry and good luck. Hopefully we are wrong and we can all have a good laugh.

Aceman
08-05-2011, 22:05
7.62x39 - the new caliber of freedom. I have always had mixed emotions on the proliferation of this round and guns that use it in this country....

ArmoryDoc
08-05-2011, 22:43
Nobody in their right minds would have run a deficit up like they have and fully expected it to not be completely destructive. Fabricate a crisis and make people want something better. You can't "build anew" until you destroy the old. This is just part of the "change". "Hope" for better. Making sense now ?

Lone Kimono
08-05-2011, 23:53
Well what happens now? Is inflation going through the roof? Is now a good time to buy things you've been holding off on?

BobbyT
08-05-2011, 23:58
7.62x39 - the new caliber of freedom. I have always had mixed emotions on the proliferation of this round and guns that use it in this country....

7.62x51 (pronounced ".308" in countries where you're allowed to have it) -- the caliber for grownups.

ArmoryDoc
08-06-2011, 00:43
Well what happens now? Is inflation going through the roof? Is now a good time to buy things you've been holding off on?

My deal ? Stay liquid. Don't buy non-essentials (not meaning guns and ammo). Pay off debt. Gold and Silver are good as well as lead. That's about the only answer I can give you.

TangoFoxtrot
08-06-2011, 05:09
Tipping point fellows.

This scheisse gets real now.

Batten down the hatches Gents.


I don't think its time to go into panic mode yet. Sit back, let all the sheeple do that and just step on them to get out of harms way.:whistling:

rj1939
08-06-2011, 07:17
The credit ratings agency has so discredited themselves over the past few years that they have little relevence anymore.
I figure this is just an attempt to keep themselves from being a total joke.

Bolster
08-06-2011, 10:10
I read the headlines this morning, and I know what all the talking heads will be saying. They'll focus in on a "two trillion dollar error," or that's what they'll call it, made by S&P. That "error" is merely a disagreement over a projection over how large the US' future debt will be. S&P thinks it'll be larger, the government (no surprise) thinks our future debt could not possibly get that big. So the government and their many (many many many) minions are calling it an "error."

And we all know the government's incredible ability to accurately predict future debt...not! I think the most consistent governmental function has been to perpetually underestimate how damaging 'borrowing from the future' actually is to the future.

Looks like we are finally running out of other peoples' money, as predicted.

lawman800
08-06-2011, 14:07
Stock up on more immediate needs like food, water, toiletries, because when the prices start hyper-inflating in the markets, you won't even be able to buy them with the lines of people running to keep ahead of the price checkers and the new prices. You need those items more than guns and ammo... I say... now that I have bought way more guns and ammo then I need for myself. (is that possible?)

jbenton
08-06-2011, 15:57
Maybe, just maybe, this will motivate the politicians to get real about debt reduction.





Yeah, wishful thinking.

One thing I think we can be fairly confident of when it comes to politicians, is that they will do the exact opposite of what really should be done.

Ruble Noon
08-06-2011, 16:44
Nobody in their right minds would have run a deficit up like they have and fully expected it to not be completely destructive. Fabricate a crisis and make people want something better. You can't "build anew" until you destroy the old. This is just part of the "change". "Hope" for better. Making sense now ?

Perfectly.

Free Radical
08-06-2011, 17:03
Wouldn't it be ironic if it took a private concern like S&P to do what our dysfunctional government could not.

wrenrj1
08-06-2011, 18:46
You can spin this anyway you like..

..but many that did not want to "throw rocks in glass houses"..

..now are prepared to do just that! :whistling:


Though we have seen a few bumps in recent times..

..this could be the start of a very nasty ride....better hold on tight! :shocked:

No spin intended or rocks thrown, just my frustration at the hypocracy and politics of this whole situation. Politics is behind everything...I wish this happened a few years ago to kick our politicians in the head.

rj1939
08-06-2011, 18:55
The G20 are calling emergency meetings tonight and for tomorrow to try to come up with a scheme..........it's getting interesting.

Germany has said "no deal" on bailing out Europe.......it would take 130% of their GDP to do it (they would be doing all the heavy lifting for all bailouts)............France to be downgraded too?

cowboy1964
08-06-2011, 21:00
The Euro was a really stupid idea. Like one guy said on Fox Business yesterday, it's a "suicide pact".

Babynine
08-06-2011, 21:07
I know nothing about the markets and banking, never been in those games, but I'm guessing that other markets in Asia will begin to open tommorow night?

What are we watching for tommorow night and early Monday morning? I'm just curious, I'm poor so I don't have much money to loose(No reason for me to make a bank run), But I'd just like to keep on top of things and know how real it is about to get.

Ideas?

donovan655
08-06-2011, 21:20
Again - who knows. Who cares

+ The leadership; Dem/repub/Tea everyone demonstrated complete failure.
- These ARE the people who missed EVERY major scandal in history
+ We aren't responsible, we deserve it
- Have you read the definition of AA; Pretty favorable description. AAA is ridiculously good.
+ They are just doing their job
- They are helping eff the economy because it doesn't really matter. at the point serious default occurs, we are all effed anyhow. So they could say AAA and make everything positive or say AA and help screw us all more.

All I know is that I will NEVER help another democratic or Republican get into office. I am for the demise of the large banks and will not give them my money any more ever. and the market is broke and useless foolishness that needs to be seriously re-engineered.

pretty much exactly how I feel about things.

Monday will be interesting.

donovan655
08-06-2011, 21:25
What are we watching for tommorow night and early Monday morning? I'm just curious, I'm poor so I don't have much money to loose(No reason for me to make a bank run), But I'd just like to keep on top of things and know how real it is about to get.

Ideas?

www.zerohedge.com (http://www.zerohedge.com)

has market, financial, political, and world event news up hours and days before the stupid ass msm does...and they don't dumb it down or play favorites.

racerford
08-06-2011, 23:38
The S&P action is symbolic and disingenuous. A rating is about the likelihood of default and not collecting your interest or principle or interest in a timely fashion or at all. It is actually strange that S&P had no trouble rating mortgage derivatives AAA that have far greater risks of default, may have had not security interest in the mortgages they purported, and no legal ability to foreclose.

They kept the AAA rating in place when the US ACTUALLY defaulted under Carter.

There are 3 major ratings agencies in the US one has taken a downgrade action.

The US has no real reason to default other than if it chose to default. Obama could have solved the problem legally and chose not to take action.

The message from S&P was a good one, "USA cut your deficit spending".

Both sides will point the finger at the other. Damage to our credit and reputation, all for political gain. It is shameful, and in private enterprise they would have been fired.

I see an ugly IRS audits S&P's future. Maybe SEC reviews as well.

Aceman
08-07-2011, 14:21
The S&P action is symbolic and disingenuous. A rating is about the likely of default and not collecting your interest or principle or interest in a timely fashion or at all. It is actually strange that S&P had not trouble rating mortgage derivatives AAA that have far greater risks of default, may have had not security interest in the mortgages they purported, and no legal ability to foreclose.

They kept the AAA rating in place when the US ACTUALLY defaulted under Carter.

There are 3 major ratings agencies in the US one has taken a downgrade action.

The US has no real reason to default other than if it chose to default. Obama could have solved the problem legally and chose not to take action.

The message from S&P was a good one, "USA cut your deficit spending".

Both sides will point the finger at the other. Damage t our credit and reputation, all for political gain. It is shameful, and in private enterprise they would have been fired.

I see an ugly IRS audits S&P's future. Maybe SEC reviews as well.

A sensible man - we don't get much of that around here.

Bilbo Bagins
08-07-2011, 14:52
Talks of an even further S&P downgrade for the USA. Not good at all.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_US_DEBT_RATING_CHAMBERS?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2011-08-07-11-03-40

jbenton
08-07-2011, 18:01
The S&P action is symbolic and disingenuous. A rating is about the likelihood of default and not collecting your interest or principle or interest in a timely fashion or at all. It is actually strange that S&P had no trouble rating mortgage derivatives AAA that have far greater risks of default, may have had not security interest in the mortgages they purported, and no legal ability to foreclose.

They kept the AAA rating in place when the US ACTUALLY defaulted under Carter.

There are 3 major ratings agencies in the US one has taken a downgrade action.

The US has no real reason to default other than if it chose to default. Obama could have solved the problem legally and chose not to take action.

The message from S&P was a good one, "USA cut your deficit spending".

Both sides will point the finger at the other. Damage to our credit and reputation, all for political gain. It is shameful, and in private enterprise they would have been fired.

I see an ugly IRS audits S&P's future. Maybe SEC reviews as well.

Appreciate this perspective, but wanted to throw in a couple counter-points. While the move by S&P may have been political, disingenuous, or something else - my understanding is that the group that rates governments is separate from the ones that rate non-government things. If anything, I think they are trying to save face for NOT rating down things that should have been rated down in the past.

Also, US spending is 100% unsustainable, especially at the rate of the last 6 years or so, and even more especially in the last 2.5 years. Congress chose to play politics instead of addressing the real problems or doing anything meaningful about it, so a slight downward rating is warranted IMO until the US Federal govt does something meaningful about controlling run-away deficit spending.

LongGun1
08-07-2011, 21:50
Really wondering what turn all this will take on Monday!! :whistling:

http://blog.alexanderhiggins.com/2011/08/07/forget-big-fail-germany-italys-25-trillion-debt-big-bailout-50791/


It just went from bad to far, far worse as Germany says Italy is too big for European Financial Stability Facility to save, refuses to carry euro bailout burden


Black Monday now assured - GERMANY REFUSES TO BAIL OUT ITALY. ... balk over the fact that it is pledging its entire economy to bail out an insolvent Europe? ...

lawman800
08-07-2011, 21:54
No dorris, we wil come to the rescue. We already have the greece bailout package, don't we? What's another country?

LongGun1
08-08-2011, 09:21
More:

Financial crisis: full force of US downgrade is felt around the world

US decline leaves China tipped as next economic superpower while pressure on US bonds is set to affect eurozone crisis

When India joined China in criticising the United States' chaotic handling of its hefty debts this weekend, describing the challenges facing the White House as "grave", it was the clearest indication yet that the old order had been swept away.

Until recently the US was the unassailable economic superpower, and the prospect of the White House being bossed about by the bond markets – let alone by Beijing or New Delhi – was unthinkable.

But following a week when an estimated $3tn (1.8tn) was wiped off the value of world shares, Friday's downgrade of America's cherished AAA rating to AA+ by Standard & Poor's is set to cause more turmoil on global markets and potentially jeopardise Europe's attempts to solve its own financial crisis.

read more: http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2011/aug/07/financial-crisis-force-us-downgrade

LongGun1
08-08-2011, 09:28
S&P Downgrades Fannie and Freddie Credit Ratings, Other Agencies Tied to U.S. Debt

The agency also lowered the ratings for: farm lenders; long-term U.S. government-backed debt issued by 32 banks and credit unions; and three major clearinghouses, which are used to execute trades of stocks, bonds and options.

Stocks plunged further after the downgrades. The Dow Jones industrial average fell nearly 300 points, or 3.2 percent. The S&P 500 stock index tumbled nearly 5 percent. Investors seeking safety drove gold prices up and Treasury yields down.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/08/08/sp-downgrades-fannie-freddie-credit-ratings/#ixzz1US37ORc1

Big Bird
08-08-2011, 09:35
I've said this before and it bears repeating...I guess...

The financial markets will put an end to our out of control government spending/social programs long before the politicians will act to do so...

Kieller
08-08-2011, 11:00
Sadly enough this probably still isn't much more than a twitch of correction needed to right the rudder of the national debt. More aggressive course corrections will be needed to keep this boat from Kielling over.

LongGun1
08-08-2011, 15:35
Black Monday!! :shocked:

First day of trading on Wall Street after S&P's U.S. debt downgrade sees Dow dive 633 points as global debt fears provoke a selloff that, according to one strategist, 'rivals almost anything we've seen in the post-war era.'

read more: http://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/2011/08/08/us-stock-futures-global-shares-sink-after-downgrade/

ArmoryDoc
08-08-2011, 15:44
Never to worry. Investors will never pull their money and just sit on it. They will always look for a good buy so they can make a return on their $$$. It's only temporary.

Bolster
08-08-2011, 16:22
Waaaaay to many people are looking at S&P's downgrade as "the cause" (ie, an independent variable). When in fact, the downgrade is merely "the effect," the result of previous US actions (it's a dependent variable). In particular, the 2008 election was overwhelmingly causal (but not the only cause).

lawman800
08-08-2011, 19:53
All is going according to plan. The dem plan, that is.

Big Bird
08-09-2011, 06:37
Black Monday!! :shocked:


It was hardly Black Monday redux unless you just look at the simple point drop (which is meaningless). Black Monday was a 22% drop in the Dow. Yesterday was ~5.5% So its far from what the media are hyping it to be.

Who knows what's coming. But I believe most of the downgrade was priced into the market last week. The word was on the street long before it was announced. I promise you that...

humanguerrilla
08-09-2011, 17:09
AA+ treasuries sell
http://thehill.com/blogs/on-the-money/801-economy/176085-treasury-successfully-sells-its-first-aa-bonds

Have read some speculation that the eventual increased yield will make them more and more attractive, but this says that they've actually fallen from increased demand.


"S&P Cuts AAA Ratings on Thousands of Municipal Bonds After U.S. Downgrade"
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-08-07/muni-market-prepares-for-loss-of-aaa-ratings-as-s-p-downgrades-u-s-credit.html

LongGun1
08-10-2011, 17:12
It was hardly Black Monday redux unless you just look at the simple point drop (which is meaningless). Black Monday was a 22% drop in the Dow. Yesterday was ~5.5% So its far from what the media are hyping it to be.

Who knows what's coming. But I believe most of the downgrade was priced into the market last week. The word was on the street long before it was announced. I promise you that...


Oh...maybe not the Blackest Monday..

.. but most definitely a Black Monday! :whistling:


The way you attempt to spin information..

..you might see if there is an opening in the Obama Administration..

..Lord knows they could use the help right about now!! :rofl:



Hey...here is some more bad news from today you can practice spinning.. :tongueout:

The Dow Jones Industrial Average tumbled 520 points, or 4.6%, to 10,720, the S&P 500 slid 51.8 points, or 4.4%, to 1,121 and the Nasdaq Composite dipped 101 points, or 4.1%, to 2,381.

Read more: http://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/2011/08/10/futures-slump-after-comeback-rally/#ixzz1Ufbw35WB