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powderhead
08-07-2011, 17:30
If you were to store (stock pile) whiskey to either use as a medicine or for barter in the event of hard times, would you buy fifths, pints, or half pints? I'm thinking of getting a dozen bottles of something. Which leads me to my next question, would you buy cheap rot gut or decent stuff with a fancy name?

d90king
08-07-2011, 17:44
Copious amounts of Bookers and Makers. I would buy as big as possible and as much as possible.

FryCook
08-07-2011, 17:52
I think if its the end times people wont be too picky about brands. They will take what they can get.
Buy a bunch of Evan Williams and call it good.
I will have a secret stash of Makers or Woodford reserve for myself though.:tongueout:

R_W
08-07-2011, 18:01
Some small bottles of good stuff, some big bottles of cheap stuff.

Vodka, too. Cheap vodka is really good for making tinctures and other stuff.

Ruble Noon
08-07-2011, 18:34
I have fifths of Jack, Evan Williams, Rebel Yell, as well as pints and some good whiskey for me :cool:. Also have vodka and Everclear for tinctures.

barbedwiresmile
08-07-2011, 19:24
If you were to store (stock pile) whiskey to either use as a medicine or for barter in the event of hard times, would you buy fifths, pints, or half pints?

Mix of each. You want a barter item to be easily divisible.

I'm thinking of getting a dozen bottles of something. Which leads me to my next question, would you buy cheap rot gut or decent stuff with a fancy name?

A mid-range commonly recognizable brand. Not top-shelf. Not no-name.

G29Reload
08-07-2011, 19:38
A mixture.

Small stuff like miniatures to make change.

Pints to get thru roadblocks with a bribe.

fifths/liters for major deals.

Cheap stuff for folks who will take anything and be glad.

A few fifths of higher end stuff for deal-sealers with better heeled, not-easily-impressed folks with stuff you need or need a lot of,

Some 1.75s of your favorite for long term storage for cheap entertainment for yourself.

Plenty of mid grade stuff, recognizable.

For cheaper but really good stuff, I would stock McKenna bourbon, very tasty and quality but 14$ a fifth.

Some 12 yr old Scotch. Some JD for the crowd of followers.

Tequila cause it makes women take their clothes off and you might be bargaining for um...non conventional stuff. :)

Vodka cause its so universal.

cowboy1964
08-07-2011, 19:41
A still = infinite moonshine.

barbedwiresmile
08-07-2011, 20:07
A still = infinite moonshine.

:cool:

Syclone538
08-08-2011, 01:29
A variety, whiskey, vodka, tequila, rum, and everclear. Mid range stuff like mentioned. No need imo for top of the line, but get stuff people will recognize the name of.

JFrame
08-08-2011, 07:48
A still = infinite moonshine.


POW's in WWII (Paul Brickhill's The Great Escape is well worth the read, from historical, entertainment, and S&P standpoints) were able to concoct hootch with their terribly limited resources at hand -- a hoarded raisin, scrounged potatoes, and materiel from their Red Cross kits, plus their #1 tool -- incredible ingenuity and resourcefulness.

Certainly a point to ponder...


.

69Charger
08-08-2011, 07:56
I would get, have, none. Might be a good trade Item, but.
Not a boozer here.
Dave

GeorgiaGlockMan
08-08-2011, 08:45
Sam's sells Jack Daniels by the liter.

That's what I like and have pleny of.

Don't hardly ever drink any, so it should last at my current consumption levels for years and years.

I am planning on getting some small bottles too - fwiw.

G29Reload
08-08-2011, 19:09
POW's in WWII (Paul Brickhill's The Great Escape is well worth the read, from historical, entertainment, and S&P standpoints) were able to concoct hootch with their terribly limited resources at hand -- a hoarded raisin, scrounged potatoes, and materiel from their Red Cross kits, plus their #1 tool -- incredible ingenuity and resourcefulness.

Certainly a point to ponder...


.

It's not bad to know how to make your own, but you're talking about make-do stuff of questionable quality, safety, taste, etc.

By stockpiling name brand stuff, you're adding recognizable to the barter-ee's decision point. Easier to quantify what its worth.

Imagine too, that you've been hanging out at your compound for a couple of years, things look really dire. You make contact with someone who has some drinkables to trade, and you have something worth trading.

Do you just want to get drunk, maybe, or even sick on some unknown stuff someone just cooked up, or does it make your day to see a familiar label, guaranteed taste, safe for consumption in a known quantity, standard size bottle, like maybe you used to pour for the family gatherings at the holidays back when there was a civilization? Wouldnt it be nice to see something familiar that reminds you what it was like to be a human being?

Liquor, as overpriced as it can be in some areas, is still a cheap buy that can be had in quantity, in safe, sealed bottles, easily stored for the long haul in recognizable flavor that you can identify on the spot.

Stolichnaya, Jack Daniels, Maker's Mark, Bacardi, etc.

Go into a liquor store, and ask for one of those empty 12-slot cardboard boxes.

Then buy one bottle of name brand liquor.

Start with the most popular liquor currently on the market: Vodka.

Next payday, buy the most popular liquor on the market for most of America's existence, and the most American of Liquors: Good Bourbon.

Next payday, buy the most purchased brand name in the country: Jack Daniels.

Next payday, the liquor most likely to make women crazy: Tequila!

Next payday, the stuff that mixes best with Coca Cola: Rum!

Next payday, get a really good gin, in case you run into someone with tonic and limes, or maybe just a martini drinker: Gin! Make it Tanqueray.

Your case is now half full.

Repeat the above till the case is full.

Now the hard part. put it away and forget about it.

Some day, you may pull it out and it will:

-become cheap entertainment,
-ease your misery,
-become fodder to trade for food to feed your family.

Or just be a deal sealer to get something done, pass a roadblock, make a new friend or ally, purchase some labor for something you can't do yourself.

JFrame
08-09-2011, 06:00
It's not bad to know how to make your own, but you're talking about make-do stuff of questionable quality, safety, taste, etc.

By stockpiling name brand stuff, you're adding recognizable to the barter-ee's decision point. Easier to quantify what its worth.

...




Hey, G29 -- no arguments whatsoever with what you're discussing.

I guess in my premise I was projecting a much longer term catastrophe, where one's stores have been depleted through consumption and barter.

And as noted in another thread, alcohol has many more uses other than just a pleasant buzz -- medicinal, antiseptic, insect repellent, fuel, etc. Having the knowledge and ability to make essentially an endless supply through available resources would seem to be a handy item in one's bag of tricks.


.

Big Bird
08-09-2011, 06:45
If I were to buy distilled spirits for barter material I'd buy the top shelf bottles to stash away. The logic is simple. First--it takes up a lot of room to store liquids and therefore you want t o maximize your storage space in terms of return on investment. You don't do that with bottles of Smirnoff. Second, people will tell you to buy gold now for SHTF. But they will also say to buy the cheap stuff when it comes to booze? There's no logic there. Why not buy copper instead of Gold for SHTF? As if magically the market for an uber-expensive precious metal will be constant but the market for top shelf spirits will dry up? Personally, I believe the market for the premium product will get better when things get bad in the supply chain.

bdcochran
08-09-2011, 11:36
Now for your disappointment. I represented a major distiller. Take vodka. Three different flavors marketed. Same cost to manufacture. Different prices to the public. Four ways of marketing- price discrimination, market segmentation, product differentiation. The fourth is kill your competition (limited to drug dealers).

I would not buy it for trading purposes. (Think about why.)

If you are able to find whiskey in plastic containers or non breakable bottles, great. If you can't, contemplate doing so. (Think about why.)

Despite your personal flavor preference, if whiskey is applied for medical reasons, does the flavor make any difference?

I dance. When I go to a "wine and cheese" party, do you think for a moment that high quality wine and cheese are put out for consumption? So, if you buy whiskey, the same applies. Most people cannot tell a good wine from a bad wine after one glass. Ditto - applies to whiskey as well.

Donn57
08-09-2011, 12:09
If I were to buy distilled spirits for barter material I'd buy the top shelf bottles to stash away. The logic is simple. First--it takes up a lot of room to store liquids and therefore you want t o maximize your storage space in terms of return on investment. You don't do that with bottles of Smirnoff. Second, people will tell you to buy gold now for SHTF. But they will also say to buy the cheap stuff when it comes to booze? There's no logic there. Why not buy copper instead of Gold for SHTF? As if magically the market for an uber-expensive precious metal will be constant but the market for top shelf spirits will dry up? Personally, I believe the market for the premium product will get better when things get bad in the supply chain.

The only problem with this analysis is that most people don't drink the top shelf stuff now, so why would they insist on it in a SHTF situation? I think a good mid-grade brand name is the best bet, but I wouldn't avoid the low end stuff if that is all I could afford to put up.

Why gold instead of copper? Because copper is about $4 a pound and stockpiling any significant dollar amount is a waste of space and cannot be easily carried. One ounce of gold can be carried in your pocket and is currently worth about $1700. It would take about 425 pounds of copper to equal $1700. Want to carry that when you bug out?

Big Bird
08-09-2011, 18:56
The only problem with this analysis is that most people don't drink the top shelf stuff now, so why would they insist on it in a SHTF situation? I think a good mid-grade brand name is the best bet, but I wouldn't avoid the low end stuff if that is all I could afford to put up.

Why gold instead of copper? Because copper is about $4 a pound and stockpiling any significant dollar amount is a waste of space and cannot be easily carried. One ounce of gold can be carried in your pocket and is currently worth about $1700. It would take about 425 pounds of copper to equal $1700. Want to carry that when you bug out?

But most people don't use much gold now and if the shtf why would they insist on using gold? Everyone uses copper to some degree or another.... Wires, water pipes, etc... I'm obviously just turning your argument against you.

The key in either situation of course is not to just barter with anyone. There will always be well to do people who are willing to pay a premium for a luxury item.

G29Reload
08-09-2011, 19:13
Most people cannot tell a good wine from a bad wine after one glass. Ditto - applies to whiskey as well.


Um, no.

YOur vodka comparison doesnt work for whiskey.

All vodka to me smells like rubbing alcohol.

Vodka seems to be the drink of drunks. No flavor to it, its all about the high.

Whiskey is about the flavor. Crap whiskey tastes like it.

Good bourbon is....smooooooooooooothhhhhh. yum.

RWBlue
08-09-2011, 19:24
Never buy anything to barter that you would not use yourself.

i.e. You barter the things you bought to much of for things that you didn't think of or buy enough of for yourself.

Alcohol has very little medicinal uses that are not accomplished better by other means. The exception is as a social lubricant and as a depressant when your mind will not let your body sleep.

RWBlue
08-09-2011, 19:37
Now for your disappointment. I represented a major distiller. Take vodka. Three different flavors marketed. Same cost to manufacture. Different prices to the public. Four ways of marketing- price discrimination, market segmentation, product differentiation. The fourth is kill your competition (limited to drug dealers).

I would not buy it for trading purposes. (Think about why.)

If you are able to find whiskey in plastic containers or non breakable bottles, great. If you can't, contemplate doing so. (Think about why.)

Despite your personal flavor preference, if whiskey is applied for medical reasons, does the flavor make any difference?

I dance. When I go to a "wine and cheese" party, do you think for a moment that high quality wine and cheese are put out for consumption? So, if you buy whiskey, the same applies. Most people cannot tell a good wine from a bad wine after one glass. Ditto - applies to whiskey as well.

IMHO, vodka is all about not tasting the alcohol. Some people can taste the difference between top shelf and middle shelf and low shelf. I can taste the difference between the middle and the low. OR should I say, mixed correctly, I don't taste the middle shelf, but can the low shelf.

I agree about bartering, but maybe not the same reason. For Vodka, is a distilled liquid that could be made at home if it wasn't regulated. Whiskey can be made at home, but it takes talent and a long time.

Whiskey "should" be all about taste. IMHO, cheap whiskey or cheap whisky, doesn't have a good taste. If I am going to drink whiskey it will be a decent bourbon. If I am going to drink whiskey it will be a medium highland scotch.

As far as putting out the good stuff first, I know it happens, but I don't usually have enough that I can not tell the good from the bad. If some people like to over indulge well....

Donn57
08-09-2011, 22:36
But most people don't use much gold now and if the shtf why would they insist on using gold? Everyone uses copper to some degree or another.... Wires, water pipes, etc... I'm obviously just turning your argument against you.

The key in either situation of course is not to just barter with anyone. There will always be well to do people who are willing to pay a premium for a luxury item.

Unfortunately, you haven't used it against me successfully. My previous argument against copper stands. Gold has been used for currency for thousands of years and until fairly recently, in the whole scheme of things, was used as currency in the U.S. It will remain valuable. Copper is only valuable now as scrap metal so that it can be recycled. If there is no one manufacturing new copper products, copper will be worthless except to those who need it in its manufactured form (e.g., wire or pipe).

While there may always be someone willing to pay a premium for a luxury item, they may not have what I need. Why limit myself to a small portion of the population for bartering? My neighbor who drinks rot gut whiskey is much more likely to have what I need than the rich guy across town who drinks 25 year old single malt scotch. Besides, before too long after the SHTF that mid-grade whiskey may well become a luxury item itself.

bdcochran
08-10-2011, 07:41
I don't care whether a person buys top shelf or lower shelf booze.

There are mighty few people who can tell the difference between good booze and bad booze. If you can, great. Buy a few bottles of good stuff for yourself for shtf.

I do care about people identifying me as a person who has alcohol to trade. I know that I want to avoid people after shtf who pose a danger to me. People who want to swap for a box of nails probably aren't as big a danger, risk or challange as a person who needs a drink.

I hope that all of your trading booze is carefully wrapped (padded) in sturdy boxes. There are reasons why it is sent from the factory in this fashion. If you have single glass bottles sitting around, think about rewrapping and repackaging the bottles.

ScrappyDoo
08-10-2011, 08:29
Just wanted to chime in here, I'm a 'professional alcohol expert.' ... In addition to being a certified sommelier and having worked in all three sectors of the 'booze biz' (retail, wholesale, and production- aka a vineyard) i have completed coursework in viticulture, enology, and distillation because distilled spirits particularly whiskey was my 'first love' before wine really became my career. Really I think I got more into wine bec. wine managers in retail / sommeliers in restaurants have jobs that pay 50-100k. .. No one really ever has heard of or hires a 'whiskey manager' .

anyway- I have spent the last 3-4 years of my career in retail booze biz. and as not only a corporate sommelier but a store manager/wine manager/gm I did a lot of buying and pricing. Liters are absolutely your worst buy but often your first impulse. It's human nature Especially in booze to say either "I don't want to look like a drunk or show that i'm really a drunk' - by buying that 1.75 aka Mag(num) of whiksey/vodka whatever.. So I'm not gonna buy that mag but I'll probably drink some and want some, so I don't want that 'fifth' aka 750... So i'LL Get the 1L ! It's the one in the middle perfect fit ! Wrong,almost all suds shops will markup liter's full pop (whatever their full pop is, shoot now it's sometimes only 10% whereas 35% is damn good if you get it... no one does anymore if they want to stay in business) ... 1.75's and 750's are much more likely to be on 'in-store-special' AKA everyday sale/ everyday low price.. If you can't keep both of them on sale all the time, generally you'd have say the 1.75L of RandomJohhny whiskey on sale ALL THE TIME, usually 90 cents over cost (if it costs 16.09 you sell it on sale for 16.99), the 1L will be full 35 percent markup, and the 750 will go on and off sale every couple weeks.

naturally this stands to reason pints and half pints are completely the worst buy, generally 35 percent more likely 50 perce,t all the way up there.. bec. Most pint buyers don't notice or don't care. And generally pints are cheaper liquors, sure sometimes you sell a pint of Belvedere or Glenlivet to someone who 'just wants a taste' but its much more likely to be Smirnoff and Jim Beam.

If you want the absolute best price you just buy from some big box store when they're having their sales, usually they put it out at cost, esp in my state you can spot the sales at their best by the .09 prices- for some reason we have a lot of wholesale liquor priced at .09, 16.09 22.09 33.09 etc. - So you buy what u need then. you don't get a case discount when it's on sale ,but usually it's a much better price to buy it on sale -at cost- then to buy it 10% off for a case, marked up full. A lot of people CAN NOT get over this fact and they insist on 'getting their ten percent.' Okay sluggo, it's 35.99 a mag regular, 6 bottles in a case and i'll give u 10 percent off. but you have to buy the 6 and it's only 10 percet. I make that at 3.59 coming off per bottle. Wouldn't you be better to buy it on sale, 29.99, and only get as many as u need, 1 to 100 bottles? But hey I work in a liquor store, what do I know LOL.


So anyway back to the start- if you're stocking for SHTF I would think you just want absolutely the best price, get yourself some mags on sale. It would be really handy to have cases of 24 or 48 pints or halfpint bottles (375ml/200ml) to hand out/barter with but you're gonna pay dearly for them. Maybe if you expect to barter them waaaaay over their value it's not bad idea. Still I'd personally , i'll have cases of magnums and sleeves of plastic cups.... If we're bartering I'll just pour you off a 4, 8, 16oz etc. dram into a solo cup, out of my big bottles. if it's so bad we're bartering liquor, you can live without the little pocket flask i'd imagine.

ansD LAStly I'd be happy to answer any booze related questions, I just am hesitant because there are some characters I can already see the posts, "you're WRONG at MY Liquor store I get such-and-such bottle at such-and-such price!!!!" and "Johnny ALWAYS gives me my 10% discount so I get such good prices I don't have to worry about this ETC" And that may well be. But trust me, we make so much money in the booze biz and theree aree so many sneaky ways to do things, a few of my lawyer fraternity brothers wish they skipped law school and went to wine school like I did. LOL. So I don't want to argue with anyone, your personal liquor shopping experience may of course vary.

JFrame
08-10-2011, 08:33
Just wanted to chime in here,

...




Thanks for the intel, Scrappy... http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/standart/good3.gif


.

ScrappyDoo
08-10-2011, 09:22
yeah no problem bro it's a pleasure to do it. It's much harder in real life bec. you try to educate your customers and inform them etc. people only know what they only know and they hate being wrong- especially from me. i'm like 5'8 and a buck fitty on a fat day... and I look really young (at my dads vacation place in the mountains a few weeks ago, an old lady basically 'carded me' for driving my dads new gator. Literally, she's like, Does he have his drivers license?>????? I didnt understand what was happening, he joking says No he got it taken away too many times for being drunk and driving (JOKINGLY) and shes like , WELL STOP THEN HE CANT DRIVE IF NES NOT 17 and DOESNT HAVE HIS LICENSE!!!) Im like, WTF??

She really thought i wasn't 17. i mean i get carded for booze frequently but, to DRIVE??? 17?? wow appparnetly i really do look trhat young.

So anyway people HATE to get info from some young punk smartass sommelier that is an absolute expert in my field, no possible way IU could know more about my job than THEY know about my job! Not possible! and it leads to be not really being effecti ve because, you don't want to agree with wrong stuff but you try to explain ,they get pissed and dime you out to the boss for 'bad attidude' you know,m and enough of them you lose your job. it sucks. Retail sucks so bad. lol.

G29Reload
08-10-2011, 11:03
anyway- I have spent the last 3-4 years of my career in retail booze biz. and as not only a corporate sommelier but a store manager/wine manager/gm I did a lot of buying and pricing. Liters are absolutely your worst buy but often your first impulse. It's human nature Especially in booze to say either "I don't want to look like a drunk or show that i'm really a drunk' - by buying that 1.75 aka Mag(num) of whiksey/vodka whatever.. So I'm not gonna buy that mag but I'll probably drink some and want some, so I don't want that 'fifth' aka 750... So i'LL Get the 1L ! It's the one in the middle perfect fit ! Wrong,almost all suds shops will markup liter's full pop (whatever their full pop is, shoot now it's sometimes only 10% whereas 35% is damn good if you get it... no one does anymore if they want to stay in business) ... 1.75's and 750's are much more likely to be on 'in-store-special' AKA everyday sale/ everyday low price.. If you can't keep both of them on sale all the time, generally you'd have say the 1.75L of RandomJohhny whiskey on sale ALL THE TIME, usually 90 cents over cost (if it costs 16.09 you sell it on sale for 16.99), the 1L will be full 35 percent markup, and the 750 will go on and off sale every couple weeks.

Its not a matter of looking like a drunk, some of us who just drink occasionally dont want an ocean sized 1.75 of something because we just dont drink that much, or switch off occasionally to other things.

Your other points are all well and good, I figured the miniatures are a rip, except that they keep you from spending a fortune on something you've never tried before and may end up not liking.

As for the rest of your logic, one benefit of living here in VA is that the state run stores post unit pricing so you can tell whether or not you're getting done.

But unit pricing will save you everywhere, supermarket, etc. If there's too much distortion between package sizes, I go for the best value.

ScrappyDoo
08-10-2011, 11:12
just wondering aqbout your unit pricin, you know they can get you there too? In our grocery stores, they use different units on products with next to each other. My Dad and i noticed it years ago. Say it's paper towels or toilet paper... one pack has the price and then in small it says "Price per 100 sheets" ... and then right next to it, there is a differrent brand and/or sized pack of papers, and it lists the price, and hten it says "Price per Pound" or something like that.... and to the untrained eye you look at the two unit prices and say {oh this is cheaper!!!!} and if you look at it, you're coparing apples to oranges, sneaky mothers!!!

but also, it's' cool if you make the point it's not about looking like a drun k, you just donm't want the 'ocean sized amount' ... that's absolutely fair-but then IMHO you can't complain about the price ( not that you did, I ddon't mena to accuse you of it) of one of them cause you odn't want to buy the cheaper smaller bottle. In my experiencde we got that alot, whereas in Shop Rite or Sams Club the same people LOVE to buy the big package cause its cheaper, they're almost insulted about the boooze 'Well I don't WANT to buy the big bottle I want THIS one but I want it equally cheaper!!!!' , well it's a business, you know, not Let's Make a Deal. LoL.

but thanks for responding, hope you always get your preferred products at the best prices.

G29Reload
08-10-2011, 20:07
just wondering aqbout your unit pricin, you know they can get you there too? In our grocery stores, they use different units on products with next to each other.

We're lucky in that respect. First we're dealing with liquid measure. Maybe its just ABC /VA policy, but everything is run out to one standard: The litre.

Whether its a mini, or a 1.75, all prices have a unitized even pro-ration: They set the equivalent in per-liter math. A bunch of minis to equal a liter, maybe its the equivalent of paying $80/litre, Pints might be 60/litre, 1 litre at $40 means 40/litre, etc. based on whatever the price is.

There is one odd thing they dont rectify and no one, even the clerks understand it: Blantons!

That particular high quality bourbon is about $20 for a 375.

So, 2 would be about $40 and you would have a total of 750 ml.

You would think then, that buying a 750ml bottle would be $40 or LESS (bigger quantity)

Instead, a 750 is $50! So if you need a 750, get the 2 smaller ones and save $10.

Syclone538
08-11-2011, 09:55
It seems to me (I could be completely wrong) that in ohio state stores, all the prices are the same from store to store, and there are no sales.

cowboy1964
08-11-2011, 10:57
It seems to me (I could be completely wrong) that in ohio state stores, all the prices are the same from store to store, and there are no sales.

There is a state minimum I think. Doesn't mean the store can't charge more but I think most sell at or near minimum.

1 old 0311
08-11-2011, 11:14
A still = infinite moonshine.


+1 With alcohol so easy to make I wouldn't think it would have value. Get a few extra boxes of .22, .38. 9mm, or .45. That is a bit tougher to make from scratch.

Texas357
08-11-2011, 23:43
My survival plan A is to store enough whiskey, cigars, and ammo, that I don't run out.











Plan B is to store enough that they all last the same amount of time.