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vart
08-09-2011, 14:26
I'm really getting sick and tired of GT becoming increasingly intolerant of Christians.

Religious Issues is little more than a place that atheists can come and freely insult believers.

I enjoy a little debate now and then, but the constant insults in not only the Lounge, but here in RI are tiresome.

What are some good forums where Christians can interact and discuss without atheist trolls popping up?

Triple7
08-09-2011, 14:49
Doesn't exist.
I'm more than willing to discuss Christian based arguments. (Free Will vs Determinism, Speaking in tongues, ect.)

Schabesbert
08-09-2011, 14:52
I'm really getting sick and tired of GT becoming increasingly intolerant of Christians.

Religious Issues is little more than a place that atheists can come and freely insult believers.

I enjoy a little debate now and then, but the constant insults in not only the Lounge, but here in RI are tiresome.

What are some good forums where Christians can interact and discuss without atheist trolls popping up?
The largest one, and the one with the most informed posters, is at the Catholic.com website.

vart
08-09-2011, 15:01
Doesn't exist.

That's sad...:crying:

vart
08-09-2011, 15:02
The largest one, and the one with the most informed posters, is at the Catholic.com website.
Unfortunately, I am not Catholic (though I do root for Notre Dame)...:whistling:

ArtificialGrape
08-09-2011, 15:21
christianforums.com (http://www.christianforums.com/) -- participation in most forums requires acceptance of the Nicene Creed (as I recall), and they're pretty quick to ban violators.

Triple7
08-09-2011, 15:27
christianforums.com (http://www.christianforums.com/) -- participation in most forums requires acceptance of the Nicene Creed (as I recall), and they're pretty quick to ban violators.

I might actually join there. Interesting.

I'm gonna check out Christian Mingles too.....looks so funny.

Cherokee Slim
08-09-2011, 15:33
Go here -

http://www.christianzoneforum.com/forum/

It's a Christian Gun forum,
Cherokee Slim

Arc Angel
08-09-2011, 15:59
Hey, Vart, 'Lift up your head and rejoice!' (You already know, 'Why' - Right!) It you think things are bad now, just wait awhile. It's going to get a whole lot worse. ;)

ArtificialGrape
08-09-2011, 16:08
Hey, Vart, 'Lift up your head and rejoice!' (You already know, 'Why' - Right!) It you think things are bad now, just wait awhile. It's going to get a whole lot worse. ;)
Everything is going to become unimaginably worse and never get better again. –Kurt Vonnegut

Arc Angel
08-09-2011, 16:14
Everything is going to become unimaginably worse and never get better again. – Kurt Vonnegut

:shocked: Really! That's NOT the hope of any Christian I know.

(Or are you talking about the American economy? If you are, according to the Wall Street analysts, it's going to take this nation the better part of the next 50 years to climb back up out of the hole.)

Roering
08-09-2011, 16:43
We have an ignore list for that.....easy fix.
What I want to know is why atheists keep insisting that Atheism is NOT a religion but keep posting their drivel in the RELIGIOUS ISSUES forum.

juggy4711
08-09-2011, 17:06
We have an ignore list for that.....easy fix.
What I want to know is why atheists keep insisting that Atheism is NOT a religion but keep posting their drivel in the RELIGIOUS ISSUES forum.

I agree use the ignore list. That will leave you with Atheists able to debate without resulting to insults if there are any.

vart
08-09-2011, 17:27
Checking the suggestions out now; thank you!

muscogee
08-09-2011, 17:43
christianforums.com (http://www.christianforums.com/) -- participation in most forums requires acceptance of the Nicene Creed (as I recall), and they're pretty quick to ban violators.

I read a few of the postings there. It's really depressing. Guilt, guilt, guilt.

Brucev
08-09-2011, 20:00
I'm really getting sick and tired of GT becoming increasingly intolerant of Christians.

Religious Issues is little more than a place that atheists can come and freely insult believers.

I enjoy a little debate now and then, but the constant insults in not only the Lounge, but here in RI are tiresome.

What are some good forums where Christians can interact and discuss without atheist trolls popping up?


Don't worry about it or them. They are no different than folks who vandalize a church building. They spew the equivalent of what is commonly written on toilet stall walls. Let them blow. They have much in common with the hand dryer in a service station rest room.

Kentak
08-09-2011, 20:50
Is it your belief that a "Christians only" forum would all brotherhood and love? Judging from the interactions between Christians of various stripes I've observed here over the years, I tend to think otherwise.

BTW, as for insults, I wish I had a buck for every time some believer stated or implied that atheists are incapable of behaving morally or ethically. That's an insult.

ksg0245
08-09-2011, 21:06
We have an ignore list for that.....easy fix.
What I want to know is why atheists keep insisting that Atheism is NOT a religion but keep posting their drivel in the RELIGIOUS ISSUES forum.

Because even though atheism isn't a religion, RELIGIOUS ISSUES, such as the insistence that creationism be taught as science, affect atheists.

AlexHassin
08-09-2011, 22:02
I read a few of the postings there. It's really depressing. Guilt, guilt, guilt.
i have never got the guilt thing that seams to go whith religions and people in general. have a good time, your only on this rock for a few years anywase

muscogee
08-09-2011, 22:53
Don't worry about it or them. They are no different than folks who vandalize a church building. They spew the equivalent of what is commonly written on toilet stall walls. Let them blow. They have much in common with the hand dryer in a service station rest room.

And what about you? It's OK when you do it because you're doing in the name of a loving forgiving God. Do you ever wonder why people don't have much use for Christians.

Tilley
08-09-2011, 23:05
BTW, as for insults, I wish I had a buck for every time some believer stated or implied that atheists are incapable of behaving morally or ethically. That's an insult.

That makes two of us!

I wish I had a buck for everytime I "stated or implied that atheists are incapable of behaving morally or ethically." :whistling:

Tilley
08-09-2011, 23:09
Because even though atheism isn't a religion, RELIGIOUS ISSUES, such as the insistence that creationism be taught as science, affect atheists.

How so? It's not like it makes them feel bad about living a wicked and immoral lifestyle...

Tilley
08-09-2011, 23:11
Do you ever wonder why people don't have much use for Christians.
The vast majority of real Americans are Christians.

Tilley
08-09-2011, 23:14
Hey, Vart, 'Lift up your head and rejoice!' (You already know, 'Why' - Right!)
Great posting! I also feel discouraged here with the lack of Christian response.

Tilley
08-09-2011, 23:17
i have never got the guilt thing that seams to go whith religions and people in general. have a good time, your only on this rock for a few years anywase

Bro...every time an atheist refuses to use "spell check," Animal Mother gets another gray hair. Please, do if for Animal Mother.:upeyes:

Tilley
08-09-2011, 23:20
christianforums.com (http://www.christianforums.com/) -- participation in most forums requires acceptance of the Nicene Creed (as I recall), and they're pretty quick to ban violators.

Anything you care to share with us?

muscogee
08-09-2011, 23:31
The vast majority of real Americans are Christians.

The vast majority is frequently wrong. It's pretty vain to assume the authority to determine who are real Americans and who are faux Americans.

Tilley
08-09-2011, 23:48
...and who are faux Americans.

Who's talking about the French?

RC-RAMIE
08-09-2011, 23:54
Anybody who is a legal citizen its not your job or anybody else on here to decide who is American. Not everybody is gonna or wants to fit in your view of what is American.

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ArtificialGrape
08-10-2011, 00:03
Bro...every time an atheist refuses to use "spell check," Animal Mother gets another gray hair. Please, do if for Animal Mother.:upeyes:
Spell check can only catch so much. :cool:

Tilley
08-10-2011, 00:16
Spell check can only catch so much. :cool:
Please send Animal Mother my humblest apologies, and I am sending him a box of Grecian Formula in the mail...:cool:

Brucev
08-10-2011, 07:00
And what about you? It's OK when you do it because you're doing in the name of a loving forgiving God. Do you ever wonder why people don't have much use for Christians.

If you find my responses to you sharp, consider that sheep are not just lambs. Lambs grow up to be rams... with horns. If you push, do not be surprised that you get pushed back. If your pushing is sharply pointed, do not be surprised that in push back you end up getting the point.

NMG26
08-10-2011, 07:14
If you find my responses to you sharp, consider that sheep are not just lambs. Lambs grow up to be rams... with horns. If you push, do not be surprised that you get pushed back. If your pushing is sharply pointed, do not be surprised that in push back you end up getting the point.

I knew a guy that use to say, "We are all members of the body of Christ, and I am the 'rear end' (using other adjectives of course)".

:tongueout:

NMG26
08-10-2011, 07:16
The vast majority of real Americans are Christians.


Tit for tat would be:
The vast majority of real Americans are ignorant.

FifthFreedom
08-10-2011, 07:48
I'm really getting sick and tired of GT becoming increasingly intolerant of Christians.

Religious Issues is little more than a place that atheists can come and freely insult believers.

I enjoy a little debate now and then, but the constant insults in not only the Lounge, but here in RI are tiresome.

What are some good forums where Christians can interact and discuss without atheist trolls popping up?



And yet the chrstians on here seem to be 100% intolerant of everyone else no?

happyguy
08-10-2011, 08:22
i have never got the guilt thing that seams to go whith religions and people in general. have a good time, your only on this rock for a few years anywase

If you feel no guilt for the wrongs you've done, that implies a lack of conscience. So what keeps you from committing further wrongs? Fear of retribution? What if there is no chance of retribution for your actions? What then?

Christianity offers absolution for sins against others (and God).

Admit your failing, make it right, ask for forgiveness, and do better.

Guilt need only be short lived, but it is an important part of the psyche of a normal person.

Regards,
Happyguy :)

muscogee
08-10-2011, 08:24
If you find my responses to you sharp, consider that sheep are not just lambs. Lambs grow up to be rams... with horns. If you push, do not be surprised that you get pushed back. If your pushing is sharply pointed, do not be surprised that in push back you end up getting the point.

As usual, you missed the point. I don't do what I do in the name of serving a loving forgiving God. You do. You say one thing and do the opposite. That makes you a hypocrite.

muscogee
08-10-2011, 09:01
If you feel no guilt for the wrongs you've done, that implies a lack of conscience. So what keeps you from committing further wrongs? Fear of retribution? What if there is no chance of retribution for your actions? What then?

Christianity offers absolution for sins against others (and God).

Admit your failing, make it right, ask for forgiveness, and do better.

Guilt need only be short lived, but it is an important part of the psyche of a normal person.

Regards,
Happyguy :)

If I have hurt someone, I go to that person and do my best make it right as soon as possible. I don't need God's permission or his threats for that. I refuse to acknowledge the plethora of meaningless sins proscribed in Christianity and refuse to accept the guilt trip that goes with them. For example, I don't feel guilty about lusting in my heart, I don't feel guilty about not attending church three times a week and every night during a revival, and on and on.

The meaningless sins vary from church to church. The Baptist teach it is a sin to drink alcohol. Since drinking wine is part the worship services in many Christan churches, that means Catholics et al. sin every time they take communion. Jesus commanded them to drink wine (i..e., sin) at the Last Supper. The list of ridiculous meaningless things for which I should feel guilty is as endless as it is meaningless.

This is a large part of the mind control game that religions play. You're always sinning. You always need to come to us for help. You always need to help us make others feel guilty. You need this ball and chain. Don't think, just lift and carry.

The paradox is that many religious people are hypersensitive about their beliefs and get hurt any time anyone disagrees with them. I can't do anything about that and do not feel guilty about it.

ArtificialGrape
08-10-2011, 09:02
Don't worry about it or them. They are no different than folks who vandalize a church building. They spew the equivalent of what is commonly written on toilet stall walls. Let them blow. They have much in common with the hand dryer in a service station rest room.

To muscogee's point, you could scarcely be a bigger hypocrite while here you are presumably offering words of encouragement and denigrating atheists while you want to teach children that homosexuals should be "despised and rejected (http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=17102128#post17102128)", and that "maybe the federal govt. could figure out how to eradicate them if it can't figure out how to fix them (http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=17160271#post17160271)".

RC-RAMIE
08-10-2011, 09:06
To muscogee's point, you could scarcely be a bigger hypocrite while here you are presumably offering words of encouragement and denigrating atheists while you want to teach children that homosexuals should be "despised and rejected (http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=17102128#post17102128)", and that "maybe the federal govt. could figure out how to eradicate them if it can't figure out how to fix them (http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=17160271#post17160271)".

But he believes so he must be moral . You deviant atheist on the other hand with your equality and understanding shame on you.

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ksg0245
08-10-2011, 09:08
How so? It's not like it makes them feel bad about living a wicked and immoral lifestyle...

Which assumes atheists have a wicked and immoral lifestyle.

You're aware atheists are the most distrusted group of humans, and have heard people claim atheists can't be moral because they don't believe in some god, right?

And you've read things like "atheists can't be patriots" or "the US is a CHRISTIAN nation and atheists should accept that or leave"?

And you've seen people make claims along the lines of "evolution is an atheist theory" or "carbon dating is wrong because the bible says the Earth is 6,000-10,000 years old," haven't you?

Those are some of the ways religious issues affect atheists. There are more.

RC-RAMIE
08-10-2011, 09:18
We can't even run for office in a lot of states

http://www.godlessgeeks.com/LINKS/StateConstitutions2.htm

I know the website is bias it was the one I found with a listing of all the states

I don't know if some of these have been overturned yet was just showing how popular we are.

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BradD
08-10-2011, 09:33
We can't even run for office in a lot of states

http://www.godlessgeeks.com/LINKS/StateConstitutions2.htm

I know the website is bias it was the one I found with a listing of all the states

I don't know if some of these have been overturned yet was just showing how popular we are.

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LOL. Bookmarked for further study the next time someone claims that the USA wasn't started, at least in large part, as a Christian nation! :rofl:

RC-RAMIE
08-10-2011, 09:50
LOL. Bookmarked for further study the next time someone claims that the USA wasn't started, at least in large part, as a Christian nation! :rofl:

This equals a christian nation how?

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Brucev
08-10-2011, 10:39
And yet the chrstians on here seem to be 100% intolerant of everyone else no?

Give and to you it shall be given.

Brucev
08-10-2011, 10:43
As usual, you missed the point. I don't do what I do in the name of serving a loving forgiving God. You do. You say one thing and do the opposite. That makes you a hypocrite.

Odd. To expect to do and say as one pleases. To then be surprised if others return the complement. And to say they are not acting right. Why should you care? Why would an atheist who believes in no nothing be disappointed when they are given nothing but what they dish out? Jesus said turn the other cheek. He didn't say we had to stand still and let someone stomp us into the ground.

muscogee
08-10-2011, 11:14
Odd. To expect to do and say as one pleases. To then be surprised if others return the complement. And to say they are not acting right. Why should you care? Why would an atheist who believes in no nothing be disappointed when they are given nothing but what they dish out? Jesus said turn the other cheek. He didn't say we had to stand still and let someone stomp us into the ground.

Atheist do not do as they please. That's a straw man argument. I'm not surprised or disappointed by anything Christian do. I expect them to be immoral while proclaiming themselves more moral than the next person. Jesus had a problem with people like that too.

So you admit you're behavior is no different form the atheists. The only difference is that the atheists are honest and you're hypocritical. Thanks for proving my point.

AlexHassin
08-10-2011, 16:39
If you feel no guilt for the wrongs you've done, that implies a lack of conscience. So what keeps you from committing further wrongs? Fear of retribution? What if there is no chance of retribution for your actions? What then?

Christianity offers absolution for sins against others (and God).

Admit your failing, make it right, ask for forgiveness, and do better.

Guilt need only be short lived, but it is an important part of the psyche of a normal person.

Regards,
Happyguy :)

Oww I feel guilt for things that deserve it (which is not what I was addressing in my post). I feel guilty if I cant help a patient, or hurt someone. However I do not feel guilt for “sins”. Why should my choices that affect just me and others that consent make me feel guilty? There is none, well beyond using it to manipulate people

Ogreon
08-10-2011, 23:41
And yet the chrstians on here seem to be 100% intolerant of everyone else no?

You should add the caveat...

Except for Ogreon whose brilliance, wisdom, tolerance, generosity, kindness, honesty, and humility are a beacon to all the ages.

FifthFreedom
08-11-2011, 07:18
You should add the caveat...

Except for Ogreon whose brilliance, wisdom, tolerance, generosity, kindness, honesty, and humility are a beacon to all the ages.

Sorry, forgot to add that :wavey:

Brucev
08-11-2011, 08:10
Atheist do not do as they please. That's a straw man argument. I'm not surprised or disappointed by anything Christian do. I expect them to be immoral while proclaiming themselves more moral than the next person. Jesus had a problem with people like that too.

So you admit you're behavior is no different form the atheists. The only difference is that the atheists are honest and you're hypocritical. Thanks for proving my point.

The argument applies in exactly as precisely the same way as the same accusation made from your quarter against those who refuse to set aside their beliefs to accommodate you and those like you. You'll just have to learn to live with it. You expect the worst from everyone. Fine. I expect nothing more than nothing from you and am not disappointed.

muscogee
08-11-2011, 08:44
The argument applies in exactly as precisely the same way as the same accusation made from your quarter against those who refuse to set aside their beliefs to accommodate you and those like you. You'll just have to learn to live with it. You expect the worst from everyone. Fine. I expect nothing more than nothing from you and am not disappointed.

And you will have to learn to live with the fact that as people become better educated, they will become less religious.

vart
08-11-2011, 10:36
This thread has turned into a perfect example of why I'm looking elsewhere for Christian discussion...:rofl::faint:

ArtificialGrape
08-11-2011, 10:49
This thread has turned into a perfect example of why I'm looking elsewhere for Christian discussion...:rofl::faint:
But surely you must admit that the best pointer that you received to a Christian forum came from that charming atheist in message 6 (http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=17753019#post17753019). :cool:

Brucev
08-11-2011, 11:03
"And you will have to learn to live with the fact that as people become better educated, they will become less religious." I will live as I please. If that floats your boat, fine. If not, get a lift preserver.

Animal Mother
08-11-2011, 23:53
Odd. To expect to do and say as one pleases. To then be surprised if others return the complement. And to say they are not acting right. Why should you care? Why would an atheist who believes in no nothing be disappointed when they are given nothing but what they dish out? Jesus said turn the other cheek. He didn't say we had to stand still and let someone stomp us into the ground.

I will live as I please. If that floats your boat, fine. If not, get a lift preserver.

Am I the only one who notices a disconnect when both statements come from a supposed Christian?

Sarge1400
08-12-2011, 00:15
Am I the only one who notices a disconnect when both statement come from a supposed Christian?

No, you're not the only one who noticed. Bruce seldom fails to entertain.

Guss
08-12-2011, 16:21
The vast majority of real Americans are Christians.
The majority of the world is not Christian.

Ogreon
08-13-2011, 01:38
The majority of the world is not Christian.

The majority of the world hasn't bent it like Beckham.

ViperGlock
08-13-2011, 05:04
I better just leave this forum before I get myself in trouble.

Kingarthurhk
08-13-2011, 08:43
And you will have to learn to live with the fact that as people become better educated, they will become less religious.

Well, I guess I must have wasted two whole years in graduate school-beause I am still very religious.

Cavalry Doc
08-13-2011, 08:50
We have an ignore list for that.....easy fix.
What I want to know is why atheists keep insisting that Atheism is NOT a religion but keep posting their drivel in the RELIGIOUS ISSUES forum.

:rofl::rofl:

Kind of like a guy not collecting stamps, but going repeatedly to stamp collecting conventions to act rudely and try to convince others not to collect stamps..... It's his hobby whether he admits it or not.

Cavalry Doc
08-13-2011, 08:53
The vast majority is frequently wrong. It's pretty vain to assume the authority to determine who are real Americans and who are faux Americans.

Generally speaking, generalizing is bad. It's the hallmark of a closed mind.

Heroes and zeros in every group.

BradD
08-13-2011, 08:55
:rofl::rofl:

Kind of like a guy not collecting stamps, but going repeatedly to stamp collecting conventions to act rudely and try to convince others not to collect stamps..... It's his hobby whether he admits it or not.
That is a very good analogy IMO. I find it interesting that the atheists in here seem to have an infinite supply of energy for this hobby.

Sent from my DROIDX

ksg0245
08-13-2011, 09:16
That is a very good analogy IMO. I find it interesting that the atheists in here seem to have an infinite supply of energy for this hobby.

Sent from my DROIDX

Maybe that's because religious issues don't stop affecting atheists just because theists want them to be quiet.

ksg0245
08-13-2011, 09:21
:rofl::rofl:

Kind of like a guy not collecting stamps, but going repeatedly to stamp collecting conventions to act rudely and try to convince others not to collect stamps..... It's his hobby whether he admits it or not.

A better analogy would be a guy not collecting stamps, but the stamp collectors wanting laws, behaviors, and moral codes based on their hobby, and insisting the guy really does collect stamps anyway, he's just pretending to not do so to avoid some punishment based on the stamp collecting hobby.

Kingarthurhk
08-13-2011, 09:22
Maybe that's because religious issues don't stop affecting atheists just because theists want them to be quiet.

Interesting. I have always perceived it to be the other way round. Shut up, sit down and take this test on the unprovable origin of the Universe because it is part of an Athiestic belief system (High School "Science"). Do you have an opposing view point? Well, you're just not as "educated" or as "sophisticated" as we Atheists. Clearly, you are irrevlevant. Do you have a philosophical argument? Well, you're just wrong because you are wrong, and I don't like what you are saying. So, in my experience, it is typically the Atheist telling the Theist that his/her view is ignorant, irrelevant, and should be mocked.

That has been my experience by-in-large with Atheism here at Glocktalk and in academia.

ksg0245
08-13-2011, 09:24
The argument applies in exactly as precisely the same way as the same accusation made from your quarter against those who refuse to set aside their beliefs to accommodate you and those like you. You'll just have to learn to live with it. You expect the worst from everyone. Fine. I expect nothing more than nothing from you and am not disappointed.

Do you have an example of atheists asking theists to set aside their beliefs to accomodate?

ksg0245
08-13-2011, 09:29
Interesting. I have always perceived it to be the other way round. Shut up, sit down and take this test on the unprovable origin of the Universe because it is part of an Athiestic belief system (High School "Science"). Do you have an opposing view point? Well, you're just not as "educated" or as "sophisticated" as we Atheists. Clearly, you are irrevlevant. Do you have a philosophical argument? Well, you're just wrong because you are wrong, and I don't like what you are saying. So, in my experience, it is typically the Atheist telling the Theist that his/her view is ignorant, irrelevant, and should be mocked.

That has been my experience by-in-large with Atheism here at Glocktalk and in academia.

If the theist's views are contradicted by observed reality, should the atheist be expected or required to defer to the theist's views? Should theist views not be subjected to the same standard of evidence as, say, science?

RC-RAMIE
08-13-2011, 09:38
Interesting. I have always perceived it to be the other way round. Shut up, sit down and take this test on the unprovable origin of the Universe because it is part of an Athiestic belief system (High School "Science"). Do you have an opposing view point? Well, you're just not as "educated" or as "sophisticated" as we Atheists. Clearly, you are irrevlevant. Do you have a philosophical argument? Well, you're just wrong because you are wrong, and I don't like what you are saying. So, in my experience, it is typically the Atheist telling the Theist that his/her view is ignorant, irrelevant, and should be mocked.

That has been my experience by-in-large with Atheism here at Glocktalk and in academia.

Atheism and science are two different things these discussions would be a lot easier if you stop saying they are the same thing.

Cavalry Doc
08-13-2011, 09:45
Interesting. I have always perceived it to be the other way round. Shut up, sit down and take this test on the unprovable origin of the Universe because it is part of an Athiestic belief system (High School "Science"). Do you have an opposing view point? Well, you're just not as "educated" or as "sophisticated" as we Atheists. Clearly, you are irrevlevant. Do you have a philosophical argument? Well, you're just wrong because you are wrong, and I don't like what you are saying. So, in my experience, it is typically the Atheist telling the Theist that his/her view is ignorant, irrelevant, and should be mocked.

That has been my experience by-in-large with Atheism here at Glocktalk and in academia.

People will always find a way to be offended. Acting like a "b" movie vampire at the sight of a cross on public lands is just another form of religious intolerance.

It's downright un-American if you ask me. But I only think that because I've read the bill of rights.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Kingarthurhk
08-13-2011, 09:51
If the theist's views are contradicted by observed reality, should the atheist be expected or required to defer to the theist's views? Should theist views not be subjected to the same standard of evidence as, say, science?

Well, considering the Atheist's view does not begin with Science, but faith, I hardly see their view point as superior, even though they argue that they are. I prefer to start at the origin of a belief system. The Theist by-in-large believes in an intelligent creator as the cause of the creation of the Universe. The Atheist believes in matter that either 1. Always was (the same argument the Theist makes for God); or 2. That matter miraculously came into existance.

These two divergent statements of faith then create the paradigms and matrix in which all of reality is viewed. So, both Theism and Atheism do not have an origin in the scientific method, so it is ironic that Atheism then chooses to use the Scientific method as a club to the Theist. Further, the Scientific method is never properly applied. The majority of Atheistic positions are not based on observable and repeatable evidence, but conjecture based on the matrix in which they base their view of reality; which comes from the belief in the origin of the Universe.

Cavalry Doc
08-13-2011, 11:02
Well, considering the Atheist's view does not begin with Science, but faith, I hardly see their view point as superior, even though they argue that they are. I prefer to start at the origin of a belief system. The Theist by-in-large believes in an intelligent creator as the cause of the creation of the Universe. The Atheist believes in matter that either 1. Always was (the same argument the Theist makes for God); or 2. That matter miraculously came into existance.

These two divergent statements of faith then create the paradigms and matrix in which all of reality is viewed. So, both Theism and Atheism do not have an origin in the scientific method, so it is ironic that Atheism then chooses to use the Scientific method as a club to the Theist. Further, the Scientific method is never properly applied. The majority of Atheistic positions are not based on observable and repeatable evidence, but conjecture based on the matrix in which they base their view of reality; which comes from the belief in the origin of the Universe.

Well said.

Cavalry Doc
08-13-2011, 11:12
A better analogy would be a guy not collecting stamps, but the stamp collectors wanting laws, behaviors, and moral codes based on their hobby, and insisting the guy really does collect stamps anyway, he's just pretending to not do so to avoid some punishment based on the stamp collecting hobby.

Well, the country was founded by fundamentalist Christians. I'm not seeing a lot of problems, but I'm agnostic, and don't feel a need to mention it to others.

I was in Atlanta last week. You know you cannot buy packaged alcohol on Sundays. I still had a glass of wine with my dinner.

I never said you prayed to a deity, I just pointed out a bit of correct word usage, and you found it uncomfortable. I think my analogy is more accurate.


But really, there are atheistic governments. If the USA is such a bad place, have you ever considered moving.

What laws and morals make you the most angry? Are they so oppressive as to make you feel oppressed?

RC-RAMIE
08-13-2011, 11:28
Well said.

How

Interesting. I have always perceived it to be the other way round. Shut up, sit down and take this test on the unprovable origin of the Universe because it is part of an Athiestic belief system (High School "Science"). Do you have an opposing view point? Well, you're just not as "educated" or as "sophisticated" as we Atheists. Clearly, you are irrevlevant. Do you have a philosophical argument? Well, you're just wrong because you are wrong, and I don't like what you are saying. So, in my experience, it is typically the Atheist telling the Theist that his/her view is ignorant, irrelevant, and should be mocked.

That has been my experience by-in-large with Atheism here at Glocktalk and in academia.

Here he says atheism is science. Which it is not. They are two separate things.

Well, considering the Atheist's view does not begin with Science, but faith, I hardly see their view point as superior, even though they argue that they are. I prefer to start at the origin of a belief system. The Theist by-in-large believes in an intelligent creator as the cause of the creation of the Universe. The Atheist believes in matter that either 1. Always was (the same argument the Theist makes for God); or 2. That matter miraculously came into existance.

These two divergent statements of faith then create the paradigms and matrix in which all of reality is viewed. So, both Theism and Atheism do not have an origin in the scientific method, so it is ironic that Atheism then chooses to use the Scientific method as a club to the Theist. Further, the Scientific method is never properly applied. The majority of Atheistic positions are not based on observable and repeatable evidence, but conjecture based on the matrix in which they base their view of reality; which comes from the belief in the origin of the Universe.

Then here it's not science.

Cavalry Doc
08-13-2011, 11:40
How



Here he says atheism is science. Which it is not. They are two separate things.



Then here it's not science.

You really don't see it, do you?

High school science is atheistic. He did not say atheism is a science. Many things are taught as fact, that have plenty of holes in the theory. http://metaresearch.org/cosmology/BB-top-30.asp

Read it again.

RC-RAMIE
08-13-2011, 11:48
You really don't see it, do you?

High school science is atheistic. He did not say atheism is a science. Many things are taught as fact, that have plenty of holes in the theory. http://metaresearch.org/cosmology/BB-top-30.asp

Read it again.

I can't see it mbecause you keep adding to atheism things that are not necessary. Atheism is simple the rejection of the idea of deities, that's all.

I do not have to believe in the big bang to be a atheist as i do not have to be a atheist to believe in the big bang. Many chrisitians believe in the big bang as does many people of different religions.

A belief in the big bang is not associated with any believe or disbelieve in a deity. Science and atheism are two different things. If you have problem with the big bang theroy and the evidence for it you have a problem with the science of it. There is no atheistic big bang just scientific big bang theory.

muscogee
08-13-2011, 12:18
Generally speaking, generalizing is bad. It's the hallmark of a closed mind.

Heroes and zeros in every group.

I didn't generalize. Your straw man argument is a sign of weak logic.

Kingarthurhk
08-13-2011, 12:19
I can't see it mbecause you keep adding to atheism things that are not necessary. Atheism is simple the rejection of the idea of deities, that's all.

I do not have to believe in the big bang to be a atheist as i do not have to be a atheist to believe in the big bang. Many chrisitians believe in the big bang as does many people of different religions.

A belief in the big bang is not associated with any believe or disbelieve in a deity. Science and atheism are two different things. If you have problem with the big bang theroy and the evidence for it you have a problem with the science of it. There is no atheistic big bang just scientific big bang theory.

I really don't know any Christians who accept the Big Bang Theory, as that Theory presupposes there is no Creator God. It is impossible to be a Christian without a belief in God.

You are discussing your disbelief in a God. I agree with ou that Atheism is not a science, nor can it base its claims in science. Out of curiousity, what led you to the conclusion that there is no God?

muscogee
08-13-2011, 12:20
Well, I guess I must have wasted two whole years in graduate school-beause I am still very religious.

Depending on the graduate school and the degree, you may have.

Kingarthurhk
08-13-2011, 12:32
Depending on the graduate school and the degree, you may have.

Amusing. A University, and, yes, it was in the Arts and not Sciences. However, many of the decent things of the Arts are often discarded: e.g. history, philosophy.

Paul7
08-13-2011, 12:36
I refuse to acknowledge the plethora of meaningless sins proscribed in Christianity and refuse to accept the guilt trip that goes with them. For example, I don't feel guilty about lusting in my heart, I don't feel guilty about not attending church three times a week and every night during a revival, and on and on.

Of course you don't, the Bible says you're still dead in your sins. If you put a 400 lb. weight on a corpse it woudn't feel anything either.

The meaningless sins vary from church to church. The Baptist teach it is a sin to drink alcohol.

I doubt if very many, if any, Baptist pastors would call drinking a sin or say you're going to hell if you drink. They would probably tell you why they don't think it's a good idea, but still acknowledge it to be a secondary issue. What do you care if another person drinks? I thought diversity was good.

The paradox is that many religious people are hypersensitive about their beliefs and get hurt any time anyone disagrees with them. I can't do anything about that and do not feel guilty about it.

I don't get hurt when you reject Christianity, you do.

Cavalry Doc
08-13-2011, 12:42
I can't see it mbecause[sic] you keep adding to atheism things that are not necessary. Atheism is simple the rejection of the idea of deities, that's all.

If that were true, you wouldn't be here.



I do not have to believe in the big bang to be a atheist as i do not have to be a atheist to believe in the big bang. Many chrisitians[sic] believe in the big bang as does many people of different religions.


A belief in the big bang is not associated with any believe or disbelieve in a deity. Science and atheism are two different things. If you have problem with the big bang theroy[sic] and the evidence for it you have a problem with the science of it. There is no atheistic big bang just scientific big bang theory.

The subject was high school science class, not your personal beliefs. BBT is taught in public schools as fact, and it should not be. The problems with the theory should be taught as well.

Kingarthurhk
08-13-2011, 12:46
Of course you don't, the Bible says you're still dead in your sins. If you put a 400 lb. weight on a corpse it woudn't feel anything either.



I doubt if very many, if any, Baptist pastors would call drinking a sin or say you're going to hell if you drink. They would probably tell you why they don't think it's a good idea, but still acknowledge it to be a secondary issue. What do you care if another person drinks? I thought diversity was good.



I don't get hurt when you reject Christianity, you do.

That is a slippery slope. As a recovered alcoholic I can tell you that I am never taking a drink again. Further, is the problem of:

1 Corinthians 6:10, "nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God." So why go down that slippery slope?

Cavalry Doc
08-13-2011, 12:47
I didn't generalize. Your straw man argument is a sign of weak logic.


Maybe you aren't reading the same thread I am. In the one I am reading, you've got a chip on your shoulder the size of a Volkswagen, and are predisposed to not liking christians. You're not the only one that's generalizing though.

:wavey:

RC-RAMIE
08-13-2011, 12:50
If that were true, you wouldn't be here.



The subject was high school science class, not your personal beliefs. BBT is taught in public schools as fact, and it should not be. The problems with the theory should be taught as well.

Do you think atheism is necessary for a belief in the big bang theory?

RC-RAMIE
08-13-2011, 12:53
I really don't know any Christians who accept the Big Bang Theory, as that Theory presupposes there is no Creator God. It is impossible to be a Christian without a belief in God.

You are discussing your disbelief in a God. I agree with ou that Atheism is not a science, nor can it base its claims in science. Out of curiousity, what led you to the conclusion that there is no God?

Not all Christians are fundamentals. The big bang describes the moment after the expansions of the universe not the moment of creation.

Cavalry Doc
08-13-2011, 13:06
Do you think atheism is necessary for a belief in the big bang theory?

no. why?

RC-RAMIE
08-13-2011, 13:11
So how is the big bang atheist in any way. The problem you have is with the evidence nothing to do with atheism.

Kingarthurhk
08-13-2011, 13:12
Not all Christians are fundamentals. The big bang describes the moment after the expansions of the universe not the moment of creation.

No, it attempts to explain creation without a creator. It presupposes that 1. Matter simply always was; or 2. It simply spontanously came into existance without a creator. Both these positions fundamentally deny the existance of a Creator and therefore would be inconsistant with a Christian perspective. Perhaps your Christian friends are confused on that subject.

Either way, my interest is in you and not in them. I am curious how you came to the conclusion that Atheism would be your faith?

RC-RAMIE
08-13-2011, 13:16
No, it attempts to explain creation without a creator. It presupposes that 1. Matter simply always was; or 2. It simply spontanously came into existance without a creator. Both these positions fundamentally deny the existance of a Creator and therefore would be inconsistant with a Christian perspective. Perhaps your Christian friends are confused on that subject.

Either way, my interest is in you and not in them. I am curious how you came to the conclusion that Atheism would be your faith?



It's not a faith. Its simple religion offers no evidence to support their claims. What are you looking for out of me some story about why I'm mad at god or something?

Cavalry Doc
08-13-2011, 13:19
So how is the big bang atheist in any way. The problem you have is with the evidence nothing to do with atheism.

Lets start back at the beginning.

I have always perceived it to be the other way round. Shut up, sit down and take this test on the unprovable origin of the Universe because it is part of an Athiestic belief system (High School "Science")

We were talking about high school science class. Where an atheistic origin story is taught and kids are graded on how well they learned what the teacher told them about it.

What were you trying to get at?

Cavalry Doc
08-13-2011, 13:21
It's not a faith. Its simple religion offers no evidence to support their claims. What are you looking for out of me some story about why I'm mad at god or something?

So, you became a devout atheist by default?

I wouldn't ask why you were mad at god, I have no evidence to support that assumption. I will ask, why are you mad at people that believe in god?

RC-RAMIE
08-13-2011, 13:23
It's not a atheistic creation story it is a description of the universe right after the moment of it's creation. It can not be a atheistic creation story if religious people can also believe in it.

RC-RAMIE
08-13-2011, 13:33
So, you became a devout atheist by default?

I wouldn't ask why you were mad at god, I have no evidence to support that assumption. I will ask, why are you mad at people that believe in god?

If I see no evidence in a god and no reason for the idea of a god or gods what other default position should I fall to.

I'm not mad at people that believe in a god I'm married to one and raising one. I have no problem with the way anybody believes.

I don't like when people who do not understand what atheism is explains to me what it is, what i have faith in, what i beileve and that I'm less moral.

I don't like when people try to undermine science by trying to put religion on equal ground with science while offering no credible evidence.

Kingarthurhk
08-13-2011, 13:35
It's not a faith. Its simple religion offers no evidence to support their claims. What are you looking for out of me some story about why I'm mad at god or something?

No, simply to try to understand. Atheism cannot offer proof of its claims either. What makes it more atractive to you than Theism?

muscogee
08-13-2011, 13:40
I doubt if very many, if any, Baptist pastors would call drinking a sin or say you're going to hell if you drink. They would probably tell you why they don't think it's a good idea, but still acknowledge it to be a secondary issue. What do you care if another person drinks? I thought diversity was good.

Church Covenant


Having been led, as we believe by the Spirit of God, to receive the Lord Jesus Christ as our Savior and, on the profession of our faith, having been baptized in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, we do now, in the presence of God, and this assembly, most solemnly and joyfully enter into covenant with one another as one body in Christ.

We engage, therefore, by the aid of the Holy Spirit to walk together in Christian love; to strive for the advancement of this church, in knowledge, holiness, and comfort; to promote its prosperity and spirituality and to sustain its worship, ordinances, discipline, and doctrines; to contribute cheerfully and regularly to the support of the ministry, the expenses of the church, the relief of the poor, and the spread of the gospel through all nations.

We also engage to maintain family and secret devotions; to religiously educate our children; to seek the salvation of our kindred and acquaintances; to walk circumspectly in the world; to be just in our dealings, faithful in our engagements, and exemplary in our deportment; to avoid all tattling, backbiting, and excessive anger; to abstain from the sale of, and use of, intoxicating drinks as a beverage; to be zealous in our efforts to advance the kingdom of our Savior.

We further engage to watch over one another in brotherly love; to remember one another in prayer; to aid one another in sickness and distress; to cultivate Christian sympathy in feeling and Christian courtesy in speech; to be slow to take offense, but always ready for reconciliation and mindful of the rules of our Savior to secure it without delay.

We moreover engage that when we remove from this place we will, as soon as possible, unite with some other church where we can carry out the spirit of this covenant and the principles of God's Word.

RC-RAMIE
08-13-2011, 13:43
No, simply to try to understand. Atheism cannot offer proof of its claims either. What makes it more atractive to you than Theism?

Atheism claim is I reject the unsupported assertion their is a god, that's all.

What makes it more attractive is I don't have to believe in what is obvious to me is fairy tails, mythology, stories to explain things that we can now explain with science.

On a personal note the question that started it all from me was where did god come from that was always there since as young as I can remember.

Kingarthurhk
08-13-2011, 13:52
If I see no evidence in a god and no reason for the idea of a god or gods what other default position should I fall to.

I'm not mad at people that believe in a god I'm married to one and raising one. I have no problem with the way anybody believes.

I don't like when people who do not understand what atheism is explains to me what it is, what i have faith in, what i beileve and that I'm less moral.

I don't like when people try to undermine science by trying to put religion on equal ground with science while offering no credible evidence.

In what way do you not see there is no evidence for God? I, also, am not angry with you. The reason some of us pursue the origin of things is because we are by nature philosophers. To me, it is paramount to know what you believe and why you believe it.

I am sorry if it offends you, but I cannot help but view Atheism as a religious view point. I see an unprovable origin of creation, I see common tennets of the faith: macro evolution (another position that cannot be proven) by the fossil record. I see socities and organizations based upon the same tennets complete with "denominations": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_secularist_organizations

Indeed, a world wide religious movement. I see zeal and religious fervor among the adherants. In every regard by what can be conveived as a religious view point, I see one.

I even see the ugly side of religion-religious persecution toward those that do not subscribe to the view point.

There are so many paralels, I cannot help but view it as a religion from a philsophical point of view.

Honestly, out of the group of Atheists here, you are one of the few pleasant ones to discourse with. So, I am attempting to have an honest dialogue with you to try to understand.

Cavalry Doc
08-13-2011, 13:55
It's not a atheistic creation story it is a description of the universe right after the moment of it's creation. It can not be a atheistic creation story if religious people can also believe in it.

OK, High school science class.

Do they mention the possibility that maybe god lit the fuse on the big bang, or is it discussed in the absence of a deity? Is there any mention of a deity when they are teaching evolution?

What makes it atheistic, is that it is taught in such a way that assumes there is/was no deity or deities. Atheist= without deity.

I get the feeling that you are disagreeing for the sake of disagreement. I could be wrong.

BradD
08-13-2011, 13:58
Maybe that's because religious issues don't stop affecting atheists just because theists want them to be quiet.
So if I understand you correctly, you think of yourself as a freedom fighter. I have never quite understood that at GT. What impingements on your freedom are you attempting to avert by out-debating Christians?

I am sorry if I have mis-characterized your position. That's how it registers to me.

Sent from my DROIDX

Cavalry Doc
08-13-2011, 14:00
If I see no evidence in a god and no reason for the idea of a god or gods what other default position should I fall to.

I'm not mad at people that believe in a god I'm married to one and raising one. I have no problem with the way anybody believes.

I don't like when people who do not understand what atheism is explains to me what it is, what i have faith in, what i beileve and that I'm less moral.

I don't like when people try to undermine science by trying to put religion on equal ground with science while offering no credible evidence.

Best thing to do is to explore your universe, and believe in the way that makes you feel best about your decision.

OK, so it's just me then, and whoever it was that said atheists are less moral. I don't believe that I have said that atheists are less moral, have I?

Anyway, people in a certain situation may not view things the same way other do. From my perspective, as an agnostic, I still see things the way I've posted them.

BradD
08-13-2011, 14:09
Church Covenant


Having been led, as we believe by the Spirit of God, to receive the Lord Jesus Christ as our Savior and, on the profession of our faith, having been baptized in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, we do now, in the presence of God, and this assembly, most solemnly and joyfully enter into covenant with one another as one body in Christ.

We engage, therefore, by the aid of the Holy Spirit to walk together in Christian love; to strive for the advancement of this church, in knowledge, holiness, and comfort; to promote its prosperity and spirituality and to sustain its worship, ordinances, discipline, and doctrines; to contribute cheerfully and regularly to the support of the ministry, the expenses of the church, the relief of the poor, and the spread of the gospel through all nations.

We also engage to maintain family and secret devotions; to religiously educate our children; to seek the salvation of our kindred and acquaintances; to walk circumspectly in the world; to be just in our dealings, faithful in our engagements, and exemplary in our deportment; to avoid all tattling, backbiting, and excessive anger; to abstain from the sale of, and use of, intoxicating drinks as a beverage; to be zealous in our efforts to advance the kingdom of our Savior.

We further engage to watch over one another in brotherly love; to remember one another in prayer; to aid one another in sickness and distress; to cultivate Christian sympathy in feeling and Christian courtesy in speech; to be slow to take offense, but always ready for reconciliation and mindful of the rules of our Savior to secure it without delay.

We moreover engage that when we remove from this place we will, as soon as possible, unite with some other church where we can carry out the spirit of this covenant and the principles of God's Word.
Source?

Sent from my DROIDX

RC-RAMIE
08-13-2011, 15:00
OK, High school science class.

Do they mention the possibility that maybe god lit the fuse on the big bang, or is it discussed in the absence of a deity? Is there any mention of a deity when they are teaching evolution?

What makes it atheistic, is that it is taught in such a way that assumes there is/was no deity or deities. Atheist= without deity.

I get the feeling that you are disagreeing for the sake of disagreement. I could be wrong.

No because their is no science available to support the possibility that a god might have lit the fuse, that is what church is for to teach religion where it is suppose to be taught in the church science in science class.

Trust me I know that feeling

Best thing to do is to explore your universe, and believe in the way that makes you feel best about your decision.

OK, so it's just me then, and whoever it was that said atheists are less moral. I don't believe that I have said that atheists are less moral, have I?

Anyway, people in a certain situation may not view things the same way other do. From my perspective, as an agnostic, I still see things the way I've posted them.

That what science is doing exploring the universe where I think we will find the real reasons we are. Religion it belongs in the church. If the evidence one day points to a creator than that evidence will be taught in a science class.

No I don't think I ever recall you saying that. I wasn't trying to acuse you of it either. Religion and politics are things I don't talk about much in everyday life. I was listings things that I find that are examples of wrong information. The fact we are on a Internet discussion board about religion would be the reason we always talking about it not because I'm angry.

muscogee
08-13-2011, 15:21
Source?

Sent from my DROIDX

It's the original Baptist Church Covenant. They used to be in the hymnals. I have one my grandmother pasted in her Bible. They have recently changed the covenant and many people are unhappy about it.

BradD
08-13-2011, 15:27
It's the original Baptist Church Covenant. They used to be in the hymnals. I have one my grandmother pasted in her Bible. They have recently changed the covenant and many people are unhappy about it.
Thanks. It would be interesting to look into the origin of that statement.

I've never heard a baptist pastor say drinking alcoholic beverages is a sin, just that it's not generally expedient because of potential problems. Seems reasonable to me.

Sent from my DROIDX

muscogee
08-13-2011, 15:44
Thanks. It would be interesting to look into the origin of that statement.

I've never heard a baptist pastor say drinking alcoholic beverages is a sin, just that it's not generally expedient because of potential problems. Seems reasonable to me.

Sent from my DROIDX

http://www.fsbhutch.com/doctrine.php

Bottom of the page. They have recently revised it so on-line copies are disappearing.