XS 24/7 Big Dot Tritium Night Sights?? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Self Defense
08-09-2011, 18:54
I am new to the site, and I have a new glock 19 Gen 3 that I have run 400 - 500 rounds through without the first hitch. I also found it to be very accurate. I had some difficulty manipulating the Slide Lock and the Magazine release, and this was easily fixed in my case with the addition of an extended Slide Lock and extended magazine release. I was so pleased with the pistol that I thought the only other possible thing that may make it better is night sights. I decided on the XS 24/7 Big Dot Night Sight. My accuracy has gone all to h^^ and I am all over the place. Can't seem to get an accurate sight picture for most shots. Just wondering if anyone else has installed these sights and might have a suggestion on how to improve.

Braden
08-09-2011, 20:07
I have them on all my Glocks and love them. From 25 yards I can keep my shots on a paper plate, which is about as well as I did with Glock sights. If your accuracy is off and you're all over the place then you're not being consistent about something. Either you're not holding the same sight picture or maybe you just need to work on trigger control. The sights themselves are plenty accurate.

JBarbaresi
08-09-2011, 20:20
the XS sights are great for their intended purpose, but contrary to what most users will tell you, they do not work magic and help you shoot any better. i had a few sets installed on various glocks over the years, but recently went a different direction when i found myself with only 1 glock presently. i just didn't enjoy shooting at the range as much because for me that are not as accurate beyond 7 yards.

djackson
08-09-2011, 20:23
I put the big dots on my g26 and love them

Bogey
08-09-2011, 20:30
Just wondering if anyone else has installed these sights and might have a suggestion on how to improve.

Lose the XS sights and get some 3 dot type.

I'll suggest Tru Glo TFOs.

Braden
08-09-2011, 20:46
the XS sights are great for their intended purpose, but contrary to what most users will tell you, they do not work magic and help you shoot any better. i had a few sets installed on various glocks over the years, but recently went a different direction when i found myself with only 1 glock presently. i just didn't enjoy shooting at the range as much because for me that are not as accurate beyond 7 yards.

I'll agree that they don't necessarily make you a BETTER shooter, but I certainly wouldn't agree that they make you a WORSE shooter or that they're not accurate beyond 7 yards. I shoot at 15 and 25 yards on a regular basis and manage the same accuracy I did with Glock sights and with 3 dot sights. You just have to know how to use them.

sigchaser723
08-09-2011, 20:56
Those sights are a love em or hate em type of sight. I was in the latter catagory. I was fast as hell up close but at extended ranges I sucked with them. It was me not the sight for me they didn't work and more traditional sights did so I sold them.

G19aps
08-09-2011, 21:12
Your sight picture has to be the same every time. If you were OK with post/notch sights and suck with XS, you're not being consistent with your sight picture.
Also, the human eye is more capable of judging accuracy with straight lines, not curves. Even if you get 3 dot sights, you should always be using the post/notch unless it's too dark to see it.

verde
08-10-2011, 00:48
Lose the XS sights and get some 3 dot type.

I'll suggest Tru Glo TFOs.

+1 or truglo t

SCSU74
08-10-2011, 10:58
ya these sights are great for their intended purpose, extremely fast target acquisition, but they aren't meant for a "range" gun that you are shooting for accuracy. I have these sights installed on my secondary gun at work (G30) and my BUG (S & W 637) as well as my patrol shotgun (Rem 870) I would never even look at another sight system for any of these three guns because XS is an amazing sight system when you are trying to get hits on target quickly. All of these 3 guns will be used in close quarters and probably won't be outside of 15 yds. esp. my 637. I use Trijicon 3 dot for my duty gun because if i am outside of 20+ yds i don't feel i am accurate enough with XS. So it really depends what you are using your gun for. If you only go to the range and want really tight groups XS probably isn't your best choice, but if you are carrying CCW there isn't a better sight system than XS.

IT0
08-10-2011, 18:23
I just got and shot the XS little dot for the first time today and WOW, they are nice. Nice groups, quick acquisition and felt really natural.

My local gun store geek advised against the big dot and I am really glad I took his advice this time.

JimD303
08-15-2011, 20:21
No faster than point shooting (the only range where there might be a "benefit"), and much slower as distance.

They're a gimmick. Stick with traditional sights - the design has been around for so long because it works.

up1911fan
08-15-2011, 22:07
I have them on my G26 and like them. No problems making center hit's at 15-20 yards.

argy1182
08-15-2011, 22:14
I have them on my 21sf and like them. My accuracy is pretty much unchanged from the standard sights, but I do like the unmistakable big dot for quick acquisition.

Glockbuster
08-15-2011, 22:22
You'll get all kinds of opinions on this or that. What exactly do you mean by accuracy gone to hell ? if we're talking 2 inch groups I believe you. If you are worried about hitting a human target at normal defensive ranges I'd be more concerned something other is the problem. You cannot expect exceptional accuracy out of XS sights unless you take the same time to align them properly as you do the other sights. XS sights help you put that big dot on target at close range. When you target practice, you give yourself the luxury of lining up your sights nice and clean. When your life is on the line, you'll be focused on your threat and the sight picture will be secondary. This is when that big dot will cross your threat unmistakely and BANG!. Target practice is one thing, defensive shooting another. The sights excell at the latter. And once you learn to line them up properly with practice, they'll serve you well for both.

JimD303
08-16-2011, 05:40
You'll get all kinds of opinions on this or that. What exactly do you mean by accuracy gone to hell ? if we're talking 2 inch groups I believe you. If you are worried about hitting a human target at normal defensive ranges I'd be more concerned something other is the problem. You cannot expect exceptional accuracy out of XS sights unless you take the same time to align them properly as you do the other sights. XS sights help you put that big dot on target at close range. When you target practice, you give yourself the luxury of lining up your sights nice and clean. When your life is on the line, you'll be focused on your threat and the sight picture will be secondary. This is when that big dot will cross your threat unmistakely and BANG!. Target practice is one thing, defensive shooting another. The sights excell at the latter. And once you learn to line them up properly with practice, they'll serve you well for both.

Is that why every experienced gunfighter doesn't recommend them?

Glockbuster
08-16-2011, 10:41
Is that why every experienced gunfighter doesn't recommend them?

What do you mean by "experienced gunfighters"?. I dont believe in "experienced gunfighters" in defensive shooting scenarios that is. I wonder how many of them actually used XS sights in a defensive situation. You make it sound as if these "experienced gunfighters" have gone through all kinds of sights in many defensive gunfights where a threat has the lead as it applies to CCW. Keep in mind Im not talking combat in a battlefield here.

JimD303
08-16-2011, 10:49
What do you mean by "experienced gunfighters"?. I dont believe in "experienced gunfighters" in defensive shooting scenarios that is. I wonder how many of them actually used XS sights in a defensive situation. You make it sound as if these "experienced gunfighters" have gone through all kinds of sights in many defensive gunfights where a threat has the lead as it applies to CCW. Keep in mind Im not talking combat in a battlefield here.

So, you are more interested in the theory that they might work, when they fail in competition and there are no experienced shooters using them, than paying attention to what experienced combat shooters use?

Ask Raymond Davis if his shooting was "defensive" or not. Let me know who is in a better position to offer advice on what works on a pistol - guys who've killed plenty of people with pistols, or guys who've shot paper and hid in a ditch.

Bodyarmorguy
08-16-2011, 11:10
I have XS Standard Dot combined with a 10-8 U notch rear on a couple of pistols and have enjoyed the results

Glockbuster
08-16-2011, 11:11
So, you are more interested in the theory that they might work, when they fail in competition and there are no experienced shooters using them, than paying attention to what experienced combat shooters use?

Ask Richard Davis if his shooting was "defensive" or not. Let me know who is in a better position to offer advice on what works on a pistol - guys who've killed plenty of people with pistols, or guys who've shot paper and hid in a ditch.

I have my own account and draw my own conclusions from IT. It is not extensive as Ive only had one encounter in a rural area in my part of the world. I was lucky to come out alive. Ive often thought what would have happened if the encounter had been urban with cars and people around there would have been no way I could have used my weapon without getting inocent people killed. Im a competitive shooter myself and dont use the XS for that shooting. Competitive shooting--at least the one I do--is more like attacking the blanks. That is a totally different thing. If I had moved and aimed and shot like I do in competition it would most certainly have gotten me killed.

On to your later statement, Im curious to know what guys that have killed plenty of people with pistols defending themselves have used as sights ? Because, to tell you the truth, I knew plenty who are now regretably dead after they were attacked the first time, few have survived, but none have killed many pleople defending themselves.

Glockbuster
08-16-2011, 11:22
I have XS Standard Dot combined with a 10-8 U notch rear on a couple of pistols and have enjoyed the results

Good for you!! youll like em more and more.

Look at the Smith and Wesson M&P 340CT j frame revolver--one of the most serious defensive platforms of modern date. There is a reason why it sports the standard dot XS front, and the crimson trace for that matter. I have such a revolver and love it. I also like the 340PD with the green hi viz pipe front, but this is worthless at night or low light. Believe me, you might pay a lot of attention to your sight during target practice or competition or whenever there is no threat on the other end. It will become secondary once the real deal hits.

JimD303
08-16-2011, 12:15
I have my own account and draw my own conclusions from IT. It is not extensive as Ive only had one encounter in a rural area in my part of the world. I was lucky to come out alive. Ive often thought what would have happened if the encounter had been urban with cars and people around there would have been no way I could have used my weapon without getting inocent people killed. Im a competitive shooter myself and dont use the XS for that shooting. Competitive shooting--at least the one I do--is more like attacking the blanks. That is a totally different thing. If I had moved and aimed and shot like I do in competition it would most certainly have gotten me killed.

On to your later statement, Im curious to know what guys that have killed plenty of people with pistols defending themselves have used as sights ? Because, to tell you the truth, I knew plenty who are now regretably dead after they were attacked the first time, few have survived, but none have killed many pleople defending themselves.

The difference between defense and offense is mostly mindset. You are either taking charge and dictating the pace of the fight, or letting your attacker dictate the pace of the fight.


Competition is a game which rewards speed on relatively large targets. If XS Big Dots are faster, why aren't people who are after speed using them?


Kyle Defoor makes plain black sights with a wide notch.
Larry Vickers uses Heinie's with a wider notch.
Jason Falla makes a square cut version of the 10-8 sight.
Paul Howe uses the standard Glock night sights.
JD and Brian Searcy both have been using adjustable Dawson's, not sure if they still are.

Here is an example of an SF/Blackwater trained guy, who was in a defensive situation with his pistol. http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/cia-contractor-raymond-davis-freed-pakistan/story?id=13146587

He made shots well over 10 yards, through auto glass, in a "defensive" situation.

Glockbuster
08-16-2011, 14:01
The difference between defense and offense is mostly mindset. You are either taking charge and dictating the pace of the fight, or letting your attacker dictate the pace of the fight.


I am so sorry but respectfully I could not disagree more. This is a whole other topic so I wont go into detail here but you cannot defend yourself the way you attack a stage in IPSC for example.


Competition is a game which rewards speed on relatively large targets. If XS Big Dots are faster, why aren't people who are after speed using them?

Because you can give yourself the luxury to concentrate in your sights. Try competing focused on your targets not your sights and see how many points you lose.


Kyle Defoor makes plain black sights with a wide notch.
Larry Vickers uses Heinie's with a wider notch.
Jason Falla makes a square cut version of the 10-8 sight.
Paul Howe uses the standard Glock night sights.
JD and Brian Searcy both have been using adjustable Dawson's, not sure if they still are.

I'm not sure who they are I'm a little ignorant so I did a little research. Seems like they are combat oriented shooters, not CCW civilians. Their missions are attack oriented, not an unexpected defensive scenario.

Here is an example of an SF/Blackwater trained guy, who was in a defensive situation with his pistol. http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/cia-contractor-raymond-davis-freed-pakistan/story?id=13146587

He made shots well over 10 yards, through auto glass, in a "defensive" situation.

He could have made the same shots with the XS sights

JimD303
08-16-2011, 14:44
I am so sorry but respectfully I could not disagree more. This is a whole other topic so I wont go into detail here but you cannot defend yourself the way you attack a stage in IPSC for example.


Then I guess I'm doing it wrong... :whistling:

He could have made the same shots with the XS sights

Except it would have been significantly harder.

You can keep trying to suggest that they're "for gunfights", but they can't pass any quantifiable test to actually proove that they're better/faster for any usage.

Instead, you have subject matter expert after expert speaking up about how much they suck, experienced shooters taking notch/post sights into harms way by choice, and every winning competitive shooter using something else.

You could take that as a clue, or your can keep believing in something that has yet to be demonstrated through empherical date and supported be expert opinion.

I used them for about 3k rounds and hit 12" plates with them past 50 yards, 1 handed. They still suck compared to most notch/post setups.

Bodyarmorguy
08-16-2011, 14:55
Paul Howe uses the standard Glock night sights.


Isn't Paul Howe in bed with XS for a rifle sight?

JimD303
08-16-2011, 15:05
Isn't Paul Howe in bed with XS for a rifle sight?

They brought his rear aperture sight for the AR to market, as well as the GAT (glass assault tool).

Strangely enough, he doesn't recommend their front post for the AR (a Big Dot), and doesn't use their pistol sights. Some might consider this a clue...

Glockbuster
08-16-2011, 15:40
Then I guess I'm doing it wrong... :whistling:



Except it would have been significantly harder.

You can keep trying to suggest that they're "for gunfights", but they can't pass any quantifiable test to actually proove that they're better/faster for any usage.

Instead, you have subject matter expert after expert speaking up about how much they suck, experienced shooters taking notch/post sights into harms way by choice, and every winning competitive shooter using something else.

You could take that as a clue, or your can keep believing in something that has yet to be demonstrated through empherical date and supported be expert opinion.

I used them for about 3k rounds and hit 12" plates with them past 50 yards, 1 handed. They still suck compared to most notch/post setups.


My best clue comes from my own experience. All I know is I had a very brief window of opportunity to get three shots off and the big dot made it incredibly easy to point shoot accurately enough at about 13 yards. I dont care what the Rambos are using on their missions. They are most certainly and by far better shooters than me, have other tactics and training, and more experience receiving fire from the other end. I will continue to use my G32 with big dot and my BUG M&P 340CT with confidence for years to come.

wtf0ver
08-16-2011, 17:41
all that matters is what works for you. if you can try before you buy. i didn't but ended up really liking them. they seem divide people on the their effectiveness as you have read in this thread...but if you are quick and accurate with them at self defense ranges then its a good choice.

smitty704
08-24-2011, 16:21
I really want the XS sights, but this thread has made me really think twice about it. I wish I could try before I buy, but that is not an option. I have seen videos on YouTube that show they are an amazing option, but then again it is YouTube and some stuff is complete BS. So I guess if I do buy them it will he a hit or miss. Thanks to everyone for their input, it will deffinatley have a big impact on my decision between the 24/7 big dot XS, or the standard glock night sights. smitty704

eric10mm
08-31-2011, 15:43
I worked with a set of Big Dots on my G17 for over a year, trying and trying to be good with them. I put several thousand rounds through the gun and in the end I simply could not be as accurate or as fast with them as I can with old fashioned post & notch type sights. They simply did not work for me and I replaced them with more traditional fare.

C J
09-03-2011, 18:06
XS 24/7 Big Dot & Standard on two different guns. Like them both. They come up quick. Easy to see in low light.

ride57
09-08-2011, 23:45
I tried the big dots and didn't like them. I have the small dots and love them. Have them on the 1911's, bedroom sp101, sw 19. If my wife wasn't laid off, I would have them on the 19's. My eyes are getting old (bifocals)

They are faster in close, but for longer range, I take about the same amount of time as regular sights with the same accuracy. ( not as good as I would like :embarassed:)

I had one on a AR15 (A1 upper) and didn't like it, I now have the 24/7 tritium front sight and like it much better.

If I was going to use the 1911 ( service pistol match) I would put just plain black sights on.

I think people don't like for long range pistol is you have to use the top of the sight, instead of putting the sight on the intended point of impact. I think its harder to align a target to sit exactley on top of a rounded sight. It seems to me that I can "cant" the pistol, but the sight picture is that the target is on top of the rounded sight.

As opposed to a flat sight where you can either make a "popcycle" ie the target sits on top of the flat surface of the sight. Or, in the center of the bullseye so the top of the sight is aligned at the 3 and 9 oclock position.

(I hope my description is ok)

I believe ( cant remember for sure) that the Ashley sights were made for dangerous game rifles. I remember reading it, but it could have been a ad and not the reason why they were invented

ride57
09-09-2011, 11:44
I went googling today, here is a couple I found. Are these for everyone? no, but no matter what brand of sight one buys, someone, somewhere will absolutely hate it and denigrate anyone who likes them. Consensus seems to be, quick at short ranges, not good for long range target shooting and excellent for "aging eyes"
YMMV

A article in shooting illustrated

http://www.shootingillustrated.com/index.php/9060/xs-sight-systems/

A bit by Massad Ayoob

http://books.google.com/books?id=wiiUeexIMLIC&pg=PA196&lpg=PA196&dq=ashley+express+sights&source=bl&ots=rwrd8sR4cm&sig=sO4jldpCmMBe1VgmhwGyQDxJtQk&hl=en&ei=3UxqTs3rA6nKiAKcp7WhDg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=9&ved=0CFQQ6AEwCDgU#v=onepage&q=ashley%20express%20sights&f=false

mr Ashley writes a article below, does not recommend dots for the AR15

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/thunder_ranch.htm

A post by Rich lucibella on the sights (last post)

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=534

XDfense
09-09-2011, 12:50
I like mine. They're on an XD that I use for HD and bowling pin shoots where speed is critical. I can reacquire the front sight quicker than any other sight I've used. And, they're pretty darn accurate. I keep reading posts that suggest you can't hit the broad side of a barn with them. Simply untrue. If I was going to be adding sights to a dedicated range gun, I'd go closer to something like a Dawson Precision.