Riot Preparadness.... What would you do? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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DaveG
08-12-2011, 15:56
So I live less than a few miles from one of the top ten most dangerous and "urban" areas in the country, but right on the edge between the city and country. My neighborhood borders a cotton field... If London-style riots occur... my plan is to send the wife and kids the opposite way to stay with her parents, who live about an hour away in "real" country and are well armed and stocked with supplies. My neighbor and I plan on staying with our longarms and defending our homes for as long as possible. If we get completely outnumbered, we will climb into his 4x4 and head out across the cotton field where he will drop me off with the rest of the family and continue on his way to his own safe house...

Do you live in a vulnerable area? Do you have a plan? Do you have weapons? What will you do?

Triple7
08-12-2011, 16:03
I live pretty far away from anywhere where this might happen but....
Yeah I would be on my roof with a long gun, shotgun, ect. I think I could deter 95% of the rioters and the other dead ones in my yard might scare off the rest.
The would most likely be a painted line on my property and a sign. "cross the line and I'm shooting you"

poodleshooter1
08-12-2011, 16:12
Fire extinguishers.... For when they try to burn you out. It's not always about guns alone.

FerFAL
08-12-2011, 17:04
You have a gun? No rioter in this planet walks towards bullets flying their way.
You might want to get a shootgun and some less than lethal ammo. Police use it with good results to get rid of stupid crowds.
About sending your wife away. Rioters rarely break into homes, they prefer stores with lots of crap to loot. Now if some get ballsy, I assure you a couple shots sends them away (usually towards places to loot where they dont risk getting shot). If you send your wife away she might get caught in the middle of a riot, or attacked while traveling.
Traveling is MUCH more dangerous than staying home, even if the home is located right in the middle of the rioting city.
FerFAL

Aceman
08-12-2011, 17:08
Yeah - I'm having trouble picturing the cotton field riot....

I was thinking more "I'm in town and flash mob occurs and goes ugly"

I head for a wall to be against immediately and exit any area of interest: store fronts, ostentatious wealth/excess, public services, and mini markets....

RichJ
08-12-2011, 17:23
Better hope that field isn't too wet. I've been stuck in a wet cotton field plenty of times even with 4x4.

I'd listen to FerFAL on this one. I think he may have done this a time or two.

Bolster
08-12-2011, 19:08
I live in L.A. and while riots are a concern, I haven't much idea how to handle them other than avoid them. I've done a couple hours of research, finding the areas of L.A. that have the highest crime...these will be the most likely riot areas, too. So my best plan is to avoid the heck out of these areas during a riot. Unfortunately they lie between me and my work (3/4 hour freeway drive). We don't exactly get the option of toting a scattergun in the car. And neither do I have dark fantasies of shooting rioters. I would exhaust all other options first: avoidance, barricading, going grey-man, driving away, you name it.

Dexters
08-12-2011, 19:14
Do you live in a vulnerable area? Do you have a plan? Do you have weapons? What will you do?

The way you put it sounds as if you are defending your property alone and that the people around you are spread out. So I don't see any way all the properties can be defended against a roving mob - too much area and too few defenders.

If there were choke points where you and your friends could put up a defense you might have a chance. I would look into non lethal options first. Because after all is over and if deaths occur you will need to justify your actions.

But I seriously you would find a mob roaming to where you live. A mob such as that in London expends a lot of energy quickly and then dissipates. They are not organized enough to handle the logistics of transportation, food etc.

The people in London are looting first and burning stores second. So why do you think they would go out of the city to the country to go to your house anyway?

fire65
08-12-2011, 19:44
I don't in an area where I worry about it. I do think you need 3 or more people for a real defense. BUT, I plan to use my pump 12 gauge with my G23 as my last resort. My wife has a .20 pump and her .380 auto.
I am friends with all my neighbors and we should be OK. I feel for the people in cities where this is happening.
Do not do out in the area, do not go out at night, go in groups. I feel for the people that are not allowed to have weapons.

UneasyRider
08-12-2011, 19:48
I would go with FerFal's advice on this one. An AR or AK would certainly keep a couple of guys safe with enough magazines and ammunition wouldn't it? There is nothing like force equalization from a large magazine in your rifle to protect your home.

Javelin
08-12-2011, 19:54
If you can't beat em'....

:rofl:

quake
08-12-2011, 21:07
I'm just kind of simple. My reflexive response was, "shoot them". :)

Misty02
08-12-2011, 21:30
You have a gun? No rioter in this planet walks towards bullets flying their way.
You might want to get a shootgun and some less than lethal ammo. Police use it with good results to get rid of stupid crowds.
About sending your wife away. Rioters rarely break into homes, they prefer stores with lots of crap to loot. Now if some get ballsy, I assure you a couple shots sends them away (usually towards places to loot where they dont risk getting shot). If you send your wife away she might get caught in the middle of a riot, or attacked while traveling.
Traveling is MUCH more dangerous than staying home, even if the home is located right in the middle of the rioting city.
FerFAL

I agree with you. Normal traffic (as well as side streets) would likely be bumper to bumper. The odds of being stranded and out of gas are almost greater than safely making it to your destination. Without even taking the additional dangers you mention into consideration.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
We live in hurricane central, unless our home is destroyed the plan is always to stay put and do the best we can while remaining together. Protecting our belonging is second to protecting one another, it is more effective with the group as a whole and in territory we know well.<o:p></o:p>

.

Bolster
08-12-2011, 21:36
I'm just kind of simple. My reflexive response was, "shoot them". :)

But are you prepared to deplete your bank accounts defending yourself in the inevitable trial, and to go to jail for it? Regardless of how justified? Shooting somebody in our society isn't the end of anything, it's just the beginning of a long, unpleasant process. Even the dictates of narrow self-interest and survival mean shooting is the last resort, not the first.

LongGun1
08-12-2011, 22:42
But are you prepared to deplete your bank accounts defending yourself in the inevitable trial, and to go to jail for it? Regardless of how justified? Shooting somebody in our society isn't the end of anything, it's just the beginning of a long, unpleasant process. Even the dictates of narrow self-interest and survival mean shooting is the last resort, not the first.


The tolerance for thugs wantonly destroying property..

.. & violently threatening life/limb/liberty of fine upstanding citizens in our AO..

.. is a polar opposite of those more disadvantaged areas with a grossly dysfunctional (liberal) frame of mind! :whistling:


An "Old Timer" related an incident during the late 60's Watts Riots where a "large group of coloreds" massed & started towards the center of town in a farming community I used to service. They were met by a sizable group of armed citizens & were told in no uncertain terms "we are not having any of that California nonsense here"!
The "riot" was over before it started! :rofl:

During the 92 Riots...I carried a special "riot package" just in case it spread here....so did others I know!


Personally...the way society is heading..

..I think it will be "Shoot, Shovel & Shut-up" before it is all over!

Just hope your backhoe is in good order..

..& you are well stocked with lime! :clown:


I know of one story that happened following Katrina..

..that involved rural folk, gang-bangers, swamps & gators...

..and a problem solved! :shocked:


Edmund Burke said all that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. Do not allow evil to triumph. Do not do sit by and do nothing.



YMMV

Warp
08-13-2011, 00:54
I say if it's truly dangerous enough at your location to want to send wife/kids away then you had better be with them for the trip. Even if you believe they are very, very safe at the destination there is a lot between here and there.

And if it is truly dangerous enough at your location to want them somewhere else, should YOU really be there?

For most people I think staying put, as FerFal first stated, is probably best.



Fortunately for us there aren't any businesses very close to our home and we are towards the end of a dead end with some woods behind us.

WorrGlock
08-13-2011, 01:00
Honestly...


Move

lawman800
08-13-2011, 01:05
Starting put is preferred unless you know you will be overrun or put in more danger if you stay. Make your house low key bu not having fancy cars outside, shut windows up to hide the view into it, keep quiet, etc.

blackbmw
08-13-2011, 01:47
my vote for this post is 2 different items.....One, Mr. remington 870, glock 31, and sporterized to the max enfield .303(beyond fast shooter, no recoil, 10rd mag, very accurate) and the winny 94. The second part is.....lexus gs400 with 3:92 rear, stock supra posi rear pumpin, apexi cat-back, srt cold air and piggy back, 3000 stall, and nitto tires on gs300 rims. Goes 13.3 in the quarter with a crappy transmission, which retards timing between gears. Thats a fast way to exit a riot area with 4-doors and a baby seat in the back!!!

TangoFoxtrot
08-13-2011, 06:03
[QUOTE=DaveG;17767205]So I live less than a few miles from one of the top ten most dangerous and "urban" areas in the country, but right on the edge between the city and country. My neighborhood borders a cotton field... If London-style riots occur... my plan is to send the wife and kids the opposite way to stay with her parents, who live about an hour away in "real" country and are well armed and stocked with supplies. My neighbor and I plan on staying with our longarms and defending our homes for as long as possible. If we get completely outnumbered, we will climb into his 4x4 and head out across the cotton field where he will drop me off with the rest of the family and continue on his way to his own safe house...

Do you live in a vulnerable area? Do you have a plan? Do you have weapons?

What will you do?


I live outside a small city myself Dave. My plan is similar to ours. My home is well stocked and I'll lock and load to defend my home. I do have a bug out plan for the mountains a few miles away, but if it came down to a bug out due to a riot there would be a large pile of bodies piled between myself and my crazy well armed neighbors.

Dexters
08-13-2011, 07:48
I think a lot of people are mistaking a rioting mob with SHTF roving bands of looters. They are two different groups.

Rioting mobs are loose associations of gangs/friends that see an opportunity to steal and cause mayhem under the cover of lawlessness. They exhaust their energy quickly like a thunderstorm. They do not have an structure or management or logistics and do not work together as one.

A SHTF roving band of looters is more focused, has a structure, works together and stay together longer than a riot.

Those suggesting shooting better be able to show that their actions were justified after the troubles are over - especially in the USA. There is no such a thing as a secrete. A friend and you get into an argument and they tell the police you killed someone. Or a friend gets arrested and they give you up to get out of trouble. Or some of the gang that escape tell the police what happened after it was all over (again maybe as a bargaining chip with the police).

Unistat
08-13-2011, 08:04
This is my number one disatster that I'm preparing for. I live near Detroit. In my estimation, the most likely scenario is that riots start in Detroit for whatever reason (economic, racial, sports, combo platter, etc.) If the riots last long enough (3 days to a week,) the city will run out of food. After that the refugees/rioters will spread out to the nearby suburbs. It may die down or it may get worse.

If it looks untenable in my location, my family will go to my parents house witch is more protected because of geography, infrastructure, and planning.

My preps include:
-the appropriate amount of food and water.
-camp stove and heater with enough fuel to last for an appropriate amount of time
-firearms and enough ammo
-BOBs and bug out gear if it is too bad to stay
Still to get:
-MDF for the windows
-generator and fuel
-more emergency medical items

Of course, my preps cover more than just this one scenario but since Michigan doesn't really have much in the way of natural disasters, this is my Number One. Also, there is the precipitating factor for the riots to take into account. If it is a nationwide economic disaster, that is something to be prepared for as well.

Dexters
08-13-2011, 08:08
This is my number one disatster that I'm preparing for.

Get some pepper and bear spray.

UneasyRider
08-13-2011, 08:15
This is my number one disatster that I'm preparing for. I live near Detroit. In my estimation, the most likely scenario is that riots start in Detroit for whatever reason (economic, racial, sports, combo platter, etc.) If the riots last long enough (3 days to a week,) the city will run out of food. After that the refugees/rioters will spread out to the nearby suburbs. It may die down or it may get worse.

If it looks untenable in my location, my family will go to my parents house witch is more protected because of geography, infrastructure, and planning.

My preps include:
-the appropriate amount of food and water.
-camp stove and heater with enough fuel to last for an appropriate amount of time
-firearms and enough ammo
-BOBs and bug out gear if it is too bad to stay
Still to get:
-MDF for the windows
-generator and fuel
-more emergency medical items

Of course, my preps cover more than just this one scenario but since Michigan doesn't really have much in the way of natural disasters, this is my Number One. Also, there is the precipitating factor for the riots to take into account. If it is a nationwide economic disaster, that is something to be prepared for as well.

I don't envy you living near Detroit.

Cavalry Doc
08-13-2011, 08:24
So I live less than a few miles from one of the top ten most dangerous and "urban" areas in the country, but right on the edge between the city and country. My neighborhood borders a cotton field... If London-style riots occur... my plan is to send the wife and kids the opposite way to stay with her parents, who live about an hour away in "real" country and are well armed and stocked with supplies. My neighbor and I plan on staying with our longarms and defending our homes for as long as possible. If we get completely outnumbered, we will climb into his 4x4 and head out across the cotton field where he will drop me off with the rest of the family and continue on his way to his own safe house...

Do you live in a vulnerable area? Do you have a plan? Do you have weapons? What will you do?

Uhhhh . Dude, your plan is not a good one. Two guys with long arms can stack up a lot of bodies, but I doubt that the bad guys are going to use a human wave assault without weapons on your home. More likely, they will shoot back (through the walls) (http://www.theboxotruth.com/) , or just burn the place down around you. Traveling in a vehicle is not a good idea when things have already gotten out of control. Bullets go through cars, and streets may be blocked by looters to keep the police away.

What is your most precious thing in the world. For most of us, its our family, you should be with them.



There is a real easy solution to the OP's problem. Use one of these BEFORE the riots start.













http://mariagabrielap.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/uhaul-2.jpg

Move now.

Spend a little extra on your insurance to get replacement cost coverage. Then you can leave any place and not worry about it too much.

hagar
08-13-2011, 08:51
A couple of charged million + candlepower spotlights, and some 1000 feet flares. Cockroaches do not like the light, and light will help you to shoot better.

Bolster
08-13-2011, 09:29
Have to disagree with the "move" strategy, because it recommends major disruption and likely downgrade of lifestyle (as you leave your job, family, house or whatever your reasons you live where you do) for a minute probability of potential harm by a mob.

Take the Rodney King riots of LA. 53 people died, and that includes rioters themselves (for a better measure we should just take victims, not perps plus victims, but we'll take the conservative measure here and include the dirtbags too). There are almost 4 million people who live in LA. So chances of dying during one of the most violent outbursts in LA history were 1:76,000. If the odds were 1:1000 I'd think about moving, but one in seventy six thousand? I'm more likely to win the lottery than die in mob violence.

Good preparation is all about playing the odds, and odds don't favor death by mob action...that's a very rare scenario that some of us like to fantasize about. All types of assaults combined, account for a whopping 0.7% of all deaths in the USA.

We should be much much more concerned about things like seat-belting into our cars, stopping smoking, getting exercise to prevent heart disease, controlling weight. Your chances are an order of magnitude higher for dying of one of these controllable events, than mob violence.

Cavalry Doc
08-13-2011, 09:52
Have to disagree with the "move" strategy, because it recommends major disruption and likely downgrade of lifestyle (as you leave your job, family, house or whatever your reasons you live where you do) for a minute probability of potential harm by a mob.

Take the Rodney King riots of LA. 53 people died, and that includes rioters themselves (for a better measure we should just take victims, not perps plus victims, but we'll take the conservative measure here and include the dirtbags too). There are almost 4 million people who live in LA. So chances of dying during one of the most violent outbursts in LA history were 1:76,000. If the odds were 1:1000 I'd think about moving, but one in seventy six thousand? I'm more likely to win the lottery than die in mob violence.

Good preparation is all about playing the odds, and odds don't favor death by mob action...that's a very rare scenario that some of us like to fantasize about. All types of assaults combined, account for a whopping 0.7% of all deaths in the USA.

We should be much much more concerned about things like seat-belting into our cars, stopping smoking, getting exercise to prevent heart disease, controlling weight. Your chances are an order of magnitude higher for dying of one of these controllable events, than mob violence.



Large cities are hazardous in many ways. Not just riots. Too many people in one area allows for too many problems. Cities are bad places to be in just about any situation that negatively effects people. One trip to Louisiana after Katrina with the 1st Cav showed me that. The city folks were going ape $HI^ and the guys just a few miles out of town were doing fine.

Dexters
08-13-2011, 09:59
Large cities are hazardous in many ways. Not just riots. Too many people in one area allows for too many problems. Cities are bad places to be in just about any situation that negatively effects people. One trip to Louisiana after Katrina with the 1st Cav showed me that. The city folks were going ape $HI^ and the guys just a few miles out of town were doing fine.


The OP situation and your observations show that both large cities and rural areas are both hazardous in many ways.

We hashed this out already.

http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1166268

Bolster
08-13-2011, 10:09
How may people is "too many people"? Have you seen Hong Kong recently? They're stacked in, and I think they'd disagree their city is hazardous. In fact it's pretty darned safe. The wilds may seem appealing...until you need a life-saving surgical procedure, or a new pair of prescription glasses. Cities are loaded with resources. The reason more people die in cities is because there's more people TO die. Plus, the sick and frail tend to congregate in cities near hospitals. They're not dying because crowding causes death.

Bucolic rural landscapes are hazardous too, for different reasons. Some people appreciate earning money and living near hospitals and grocery stores that function 99.9999% of the time. It may be personally disappointing, but you just don't see "city folk" dying off like flies from urbanity, much as that seems to be a popular fantasy.

Play the odds and prepare likewise. You can prep for urban disasters, just as you can prep for rural ones. It's not logical to upend your whole life for the remote probability you will die in a mob attack.

TangoFoxtrot
08-13-2011, 10:31
Uhhhh . Dude, your plan is not a good one. Two guys with long arms can stack up a lot of bodies, but I doubt that the bad guys are going to use a human wave assault without weapons on your home. More likely, they will shoot back (through the walls) (http://www.theboxotruth.com/) , or just burn the place down around you. Traveling in a vehicle is not a good idea when things have already gotten out of control. Bullets go through cars, and streets may be blocked by looters to keep the police away.

What is your most precious thing in the world. For most of us, its our family, you should be with them.



There is a real easy solution to the OP's problem. Use one of these BEFORE the riots start.













http://mariagabrielap.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/uhaul-2.jpg

Move now.

Spend a little extra on your insurance to get replacement cost coverage. Then you can leave any place and not worry about it too much.

For some that is easier said then done. Maybe he likes where he lives, maybe he can't afford to just pick up and move, who knows. Make a plan and hone it. A plan is better than no plan.

Cavalry Doc
08-13-2011, 10:31
How may people is "too many people"? Have you seen Hong Kong recently? They're stacked in, and I think they'd disagree their city is hazardous. In fact it's pretty darned safe. The wilds may seem appealing...until you need a life-saving surgical procedure, or a new pair of prescription glasses. Cities are loaded with resources. The reason more people die in cities is because there's more people TO die. Plus, the sick and frail tend to congregate in cities near hospitals. They're not dying because crowding causes death.

Bucolic rural landscapes are hazardous too, for different reasons. Some people appreciate earning money and living near hospitals and grocery stores that function 99.9999% of the time. It may be personally disappointing, but you just don't see "city folk" dying off like flies from urbanity, much as that seems to be a popular fantasy.

Play the odds and prepare likewise. You can prep for urban disasters, just as you can prep for rural ones. It's not logical to upend your whole life for the remote probability you will die in a mob attack.

To each their own. There are good and bad things about any location. Live in suburbia, I can drive to the city, or the country, and don't have to drive in city traffic, or deal with panhandlers. Just got back from a week in Atlanta, nice restaurants, and lots of beggars. One even walked with me for a while on my way to a pharmacy to get some medication that I had forgotten, and offered to show me a shortcut. I was born on a Tuesday, but not last Tuesday.

Keep your cities. I guess it's a matter of personal preference.

Cavalry Doc
08-13-2011, 10:36
For some that is easier said then done. Maybe he likes where he lives, maybe he can't afford to just pick up and move, who knows. Make a plan and hone it. A plan is better than no plan.

Guarding an apartment with two guys hoping to fight off looters is not the best idea in the world. You could free yourself up as a resource to protect your family with a little good quality renters insurance.

Most people live where they do by chance. I've traveled a bit, and live right where I do for many reasons. The economy is fine here, other than drought, and the occasional tornado, not too many problems with natural disasters. Laws are friendly to my profession and my hobbies. Laws tend to support property owners, and remove protection for criminals. In Texas, you can chase someone down and kill them to get your property back. I'd never do that, unless it was one of my dogs or something like that, but you get the point.

Bolster
08-13-2011, 10:42
I agree with you on the 'to each his own.' :wavey: It's more of a personal preference. Some people will put up with freeways & panhandlers in exchange for airports, ambulances, universities, pharmacies, firemen, hospitals, and white-collar jobs. Others won't.

I'm just trying to make the point that city life doesn't risk certain death by mob action...that would actually be exceedingly rare. But city life does require different types of preps (and perhaps more difficult to do? since we are so reliant on the matrix) than the country does.

quake
08-13-2011, 11:38
But are you prepared to deplete your bank accounts defending yourself in the inevitable trial, and to go to jail for it? Regardless of how justified? Shooting somebody in our society isn't the end of anything, it's just the beginning of a long, unpleasant process. Even the dictates of narrow self-interest and survival mean shooting is the last resort, not the first.

I don't say "shoot them" lightly or cavalierly; it's as serious a proposition as there is. I also agree that it is (or at least should be) a last resort, not a first option. But mobs attacking me or mine are inherently a 'deadly force', and if that threshold is breeched, not sure what lesser response would better protect my family or myself. If we're talking about defending our home from a mob that's outside, it might be that a CS canister tossed out into the crowd would be just as good; but if we're talking about being attacked by a mob while out & about, not as many options or chances to be creative about it.

As far as after-incident complications, you're also right - no way to avoid them. But there are things that can be done to tilt them more toward your favor. Be a "known" good guy by as many local folks as possible - be active in the community, be known (as a good guy, mind you.. :supergrin:) by as many authorities as possible. In my area, the county prosecutor is a man who I've known for years and who used to be my son's sunday school teacher. The sheriff knows, respects & appreciates me because I've volunteered a lot of hours & money to his dept (as well as the sheriff before him) since the 1990's. Having done that over the years, means I'm on a first-name basis with the county deputies and the majority of the nearby local cops as well, and have gone thru dangerous doors with quite a few of them; and that history would certainly not hurt if they were to take a report of an incident in which I was involved. So local law enforcement is largely "on my side" for lack of a better term. I also for a number of years now have been singing in gospel groups in the area in different churches; and in such a low-density population, that means a lot of people recognize me in that context. Not that I have any kind of celebrity, I'm just noticeable - a big bearded goober that's been up in front of a lot of them and who just stands out by virtue of being a big bearded goober; can't help it.

My point isn't how great my situation is, or how well the local community thinks of me. My point is that it's a completely valid prep consideration to improve a person's 'preparedness' level & options in our community just as we do in our homes; and I recommend doing so to the extent possible. If a person lives in a huge metro area, he's certainly more limited in how "known" he is in the area, but like anything, we should do what we can to improve our situations and give us as many options as possible.

:wavey:

Bolster
08-13-2011, 11:58
But there are things that can be done to tilt them more toward your favor. Be a "known" good guy by as many local folks as possible - be active in the community, be known (as a good guy, mind you.. :supergrin:) by as many authorities as possible.

You're totally correct, of course. Your standing in the community will be an important asset...UNLIKE virtually every apocalyptic movie, which depicts the complete inversion of the previous social order. That's just fumes and fantasy. The credible and well-regarded (perhaps bearded choir boys) in the community BEFORE the fan starts up, will have a big advantage AFTER the fan starts blowing. 95% of humans self-organize into hierarchies. Better to be at the top of yours, than at the bottom!

I'm a transplant from Arizona, so living in L.A. is a bit of a culture shock. One thing that amazes me is how many of my neighbors don't know each other. Like you, I've made an effort to get to know people and be seen as a pro-community guy (CERT training, local Ham network, joined Neighborhood Watch, that sort of stuff). I think it's a very important prep, as you say...dare I say just as important as guns and ammo.

Warp
08-13-2011, 11:59
Have to disagree with the "move" strategy, because it recommends major disruption and likely downgrade of lifestyle (as you leave your job, family, house or whatever your reasons you live where you do) for a minute probability of potential harm by a mob.

Take the Rodney King riots of LA. 53 people died, and that includes rioters themselves (for a better measure we should just take victims, not perps plus victims, but we'll take the conservative measure here and include the dirtbags too). There are almost 4 million people who live in LA. So chances of dying during one of the most violent outbursts in LA history were 1:76,000. If the odds were 1:1000 I'd think about moving, but one in seventy six thousand? I'm more likely to win the lottery than die in mob violence.

Good preparation is all about playing the odds, and odds don't favor death by mob action...that's a very rare scenario that some of us like to fantasize about. All types of assaults combined, account for a whopping 0.7% of all deaths in the USA.

We should be much much more concerned about things like seat-belting into our cars, stopping smoking, getting exercise to prevent heart disease, controlling weight. Your chances are an order of magnitude higher for dying of one of these controllable events, than mob violence.

How many injured?

I always wear a seatbelt, I never smoked, I exercise regularly and am actually trying to gain weight. Why would I worry about these things?

quake
08-13-2011, 12:29
...UNLIKE virtually every apocalyptic movie, which depicts the complete inversion of the previous social order. That's just fumes and fantasy.

...I've made an effort to get to know people and be seen as a pro-community guy (CERT training, local Ham network, joined Neighborhood Watch, that sort of stuff). I think it's a very important prep, as you say...dare I say just as important as guns and ammo.
:thumbsup: One thing I harp on regarding any shtf situation is simply this - whether we're talking about katrina, the king riots, a local tornado or ice storm, or even world war 2, they all have at least one thing in common: they all ended at some point. Mad Max, or A Boy and His Dog, ain't happening; and when the shtf does end (as they ALWAYS do), there will be both the authorities and the man in the mirror that have to be answered to for our actions.

...Bucolic rural landscapes are hazardous too, for different reasons. Some people appreciate earning money and living near hospitals and grocery stores that function 99.9999% of the time...
...Some people will put up with freeways & panhandlers in exchange for airports, ambulances, universities, pharmacies, firemen, hospitals, and white-collar jobs...
Not to be contentious, but seems like thereís either a serious bias against non-metropolitan areas, or at least a gross misunderstanding of more rural life. We have hospitals & grocery stores; even have schools, paved roads and fire departments. And if weíre going to be fair about it, city people have to ďput up withĒ a whole lot more than panhandlers. Cities not only have more crime, they have more crime per capita and a much higher percent of that crime is violent crime. They also have to put up with higher taxes, lower personal freedoms (less ccw allowance, etc), less privacy, lower performance on average of the school systems, and all manner of differences. And while thereís a whole lot more towns of 20 thousand than there are cities of a million, when was the last time we heard of a flash-mob in one of those 20K population towns.. None that Iím aware of.

Not hating on cities, and rural areas absolutely have their disadvantages too; thereís been times Iíve just craved a good marinated ribeye at 4am, and donít like driving over an hour to get to little rock airport. But if weíre going to be honest about it, the differences between big city & small town is nowhere near being just a matter of inconveniences like panhandlers & traffic.


ÖWe should be much much more concerned about things like seat-belting into our cars, stopping smoking, getting exercise to prevent heart disease, controlling weight. Your chances are an order of magnitude higher for dying of one of these controllable events, than mob violence.
On that we agree completely; itís the mundane-but-constant daily things (regardless of whether rural or urban) that deserve priority of our attentions.

Bolster
08-13-2011, 13:34
I always wear a seatbelt, I never smoked, I exercise regularly and am actually trying to gain weight. Why would I worry about these things?

Well, because you're an order of magnitude more likely to be taken by heart attack, cancer, auto accident, or stroke, than you are by mob violence. I don't advocate worrying about these issues. Sounds like you're actively engaged in combatting your most likely causes of death. So the warning is not for you. It's for the guy who ignores the most likely causes of death, has a horrible diet, doesn't exercise, meanwhile thinking his Glock is THE answer to survival. It's not.

...seems like there’s either a serious bias against non-metropolitan areas, or at least a gross misunderstanding of more rural life.

If that's aimed at me, I'll tell you right out that I prefer rural life to urban. I've lived both. Obviously rural dwellers can get to a hospital, but in 5 mintues with an ambulance treating you along the way? I'm not promoting urban life, it has many drawbacks, and you listed some of the ones I hate the most (no privacy, higher taxes) but I am defending it against irrational charges that it's so deadly dangerous to live in the big city, that uprooting your job and your life, and moving to the boonies, is the only smart move.

Look, I don't mean to ride this, and I think I've posted enough in this thread. But I'm developing some sand in my socks with posters who don't consider likely probabilities, and who keep concentrating on extremely rare events to which the solution is moving to the hills and/or shooting somebody. Those types of problems are pretty rare, and I'd like to see a more rational, probability-based approach to preparedness that's less focused on using a single tool to solve all problems. OK, I'll stop now.

Dexters
08-13-2011, 15:35
But I'm developing some sand in my socks with posters who don't consider likely probabilities, and who keep concentrating on extremely rare events to which the solution is moving to the hills and/or shooting somebody. Those types of problems are pretty rare, and I'd like to see a more rational, probability-based approach to preparedness that's less focused on using a single tool to solve all problems. OK, I'll stop now.

Very true. There is hope - there was a post about a 50ish guy who tried his Get Home Bag out and walked home. He learned a lot about his physical limitations.

One of the most dangerous things we can do is get into a car and drive. The chances of death or serious injury are much greater than the situations people present here.

LongGun1
08-13-2011, 16:31
I'm just trying to make the point that city life doesn't risk certain death by mob action...that would actually be exceedingly rare.


Exceedingly rare......right now! :supergrin:


But it is not the "here & now" many are concerned about..

..but the knowledge that many Blue State Urban Areas..

..are simply a powder keg looking for the right match! :whistling:

B.Reid
08-13-2011, 17:53
During the LA riots in 1992 I think it was. I was around 50 miles away and safe. But I was unemployed and watched it for three days live on TV. The one thing that stands out is a scene in Compton where dozens of looters where in a store and the Compton Police showed up. All they did was step out of their car with shotguns and fire a couple of rounds into the air. That store was cleared out in a minute, those people couldn't get out fast enough. Most looters are not violent just opportunists. I think a show of force will deter most looters, but don't count on it.

LongGun1
08-14-2011, 00:00
Not to be contentious, but seems like there’s either a serious bias against non-metropolitan areas, or at least a gross misunderstanding of more rural life. We have hospitals & grocery stores; even have schools, paved roads and fire departments. And if we’re going to be fair about it, city people have to “put up with” a whole lot more than panhandlers. Cities not only have more crime, they have more crime per capita and a much higher percent of that crime is violent crime. They also have to put up with higher taxes, lower personal freedoms (less ccw allowance, etc), less privacy, lower performance on average of the school systems, and all manner of differences. And while there’s a whole lot more towns of 20 thousand than there are cities of a million, when was the last time we heard of a flash-mob in one of those 20K population towns.. None that I’m aware of.

Not hating on cities, and rural areas absolutely have their disadvantages too; there’s been times I’ve just craved a good marinated ribeye at 4am, and don’t like driving over an hour to get to little rock airport. But if we’re going to be honest about it, the differences between big city & small town is nowhere near being just a matter of inconveniences like panhandlers & traffic.



+1 :thumbsup:


Each to his own...but I have worked & lived/extended stays in large (Austin, Baton Rouge), very large (Houston, San Diego, New Orleans, Atlanta, Washington DC) to mega-cities (Istanbul...population 9 million)....

I have also worked & lived in rather rural & suburban areas...


I also had the opportunity to be intimately familiar with the medical centers in many of these areas...both rural, suburban & urban..

..and I would much rather go to a clean ER in a more suburban or rural area..

..with just a few of a much better clientŤle in the waiting room...

..than a overpacked, rather filthy ER waiting room in a large urban area..

..with all of the associated parking, waiting & crime issues!


In one rural home..We can be at a well staffed, award winning medical center in less than 15 minutes..

..with (low crime & good convenient parking) stores & shopping centers nearby..

..and 30+ restaurants in the same amount of time....Outback, Chili's, Copelands, Long Horn, etc.


In the other rather rural home...I can be at a couple of well staffed, award winning medical centers in less than 15 minutes..

.. with (low crime & good convenient parking) high end stores & shopping centers nearby..

..and 40+ restaurants in the same amount of time....PF Changs, Outback, Chili's, etc.

Commute is 10-15 minutes in both locations for wife & I...

..whereas I have been party to 1 & 2 hour bumper-to-bumper commutes with friends/relatives in major metropolitan areas...2 to 4 hours a day wasted smelling exhaust fumes! :upeyes:


Little to no traffic (rarely can you not go at least the speed limit...even during "rush hour")..

..always being able to safely park at or very near your destination (free of charge)..

..little to no crime (I know of friends in one AO that leave their cars & homes unlocked..

..fresh clean air, no graffiti, good schools, no panhandlers dumping filthy water on the windshield & wanting to be paid for their services, polite friendly people, the ability to exercise my 2nd amendment rights, the list goes on!


During those times that I stayed/lived in the big cities...

..often having to work after hours & in the early am..

..and in areas not prudent for a safe & long life..

..I learned the value of always having a weapon nearby..

..and good situational awareness is not optional! :whistling:


At one time, the family & I would go to Houston once or twice a year for vacation..

..hit the rides at Astroworld, the exhibits at the Houston Museum of Natural Science, eat at Pappasito's Cantina ...

..but those vacations came to a screeching halt..

..gang activity at Astroworld became so unbearable the park was finally closed..(last trip we witnessed gang fights, gang intimidation directed at park customers including violence...the park literally was infested with gangs) http://www.epinions.com/review/trvl-Family_Travel-Theme_Parks-All-Six_Flags_Astroworld-Waterworld/content_147551784580
http://coasterbuzz.com/Forums/Thread/53091.aspx

..and my wife's purse was stolen by young ghetto rats while we were sitting in the Houston Museum of Natural Science theater.. :steamed:

..recovered the contents not stolen in the trashcan in the men's restroom!


We decided that trip we could do without their decaying, crime-ridden urban culture..

.. & they could do without our vacation $$$!












YMMV

TangoFoxtrot
08-14-2011, 05:11
Its a damn shame LG1. When you can't even go on vacation and worry about gangs, thugs and all the other trash trying to rip ya off. I lives in NYC for 20 years and know what your talking about. Shortly after I got married I moved out of state to a real nice area to eventually watch the scumbags I left move into the area I moved to. So I picked up again and moved to the burbs just outside a small city. In a different city where I work (as a defense contractor) my facility (owned by the US Army) is in the middle of a ghetto infested with the Bloods, Cryps. MS13 and other vermin. I can't seem to win. If I were a young man I'd consider relocating to a remote area of either Montana or Idaho, like I wanted to do years ealier.

Bilbo Bagins
08-15-2011, 08:20
If rioting somehow came your way, a show of force will probably help. You and the neighbors sit out on the porch with you weapon of choice. I think firing a round or two over the bow of the crowd will dissuade even tough rioters, just know your backstop.

I doubt it would ever get theat bad where I live, but if it did, I would take the Israeli approach. If a large crowd of rioters were coming down my street, looting and burning house along the way, and they did not back down from warning shots, I would shoot a few in the leg with a .22lr rifle. If that didn't do it, anyone with a molotov cocktail, trying to break into my house or the house of my neighbors, or I see commiting a violent felony (rape,beating, etc.) would be shot dead.

lawman800
08-15-2011, 09:41
Sounds like a good plan. But I probably would document it with video to show the use of deadly force was necessary. If it's a small short term shtf, government will be restored and actions accounted for. You have a body with brains spattered in your neighborhood, someone's gonna ask questions and someone will point you out as the shooter.

mac66
08-15-2011, 10:01
I was in a couple riots as a participant. I was not on the side of the rioters. All I can say is, avoid large mobs of people if you can. That means stay off the street and out of the way. Get out of the area if you can, lay low if you can't. Shoot back. Rioters and looters will duck and run when gunfire erupts.

UneasyRider
08-15-2011, 10:27
I was a bystander in a riot once as a teenager and it was very exciting. I don't know to this day what it was about but the Puerto Ricans in Lawrence Ma. were upset about something. I was at work and we just locked the doors and watched out the windows as people ran from the riot down our street and past our building.

It was mild because the police there were brutal on a good day. I would not like to be in a really bad one without a gun.

MannyA
08-15-2011, 10:37
The Israelis use snipers to pick out the mob leaders and then the shoot them in the knee with a scoped .22

Bilbo Bagins
08-15-2011, 11:06
The Israelis use snipers to pick out the mob leaders and then the shoot them in the knee with a scoped .22

+1 that is why I said I would take the Israeli approach. Its not 100% non-lethal, but I'm thinking if you drop 2 or 3 key rioters the gang would pull back. You have a maximum effect, with minimal injury and loss of life, and with a .22 its quiet and with little flash so its easier to keep your shooting position hidden.


http://www.ruger1022.com/docs/israeli_sniper.htm

http://www.ruger1022.com/images/Israeli_ruger-3_250.jpg

lawman800
08-15-2011, 11:42
It was mild because the police there were brutal on a good day. I would not like to be in a really bad one without a gun.

Police were brutal? You mean the police did what they needed to do to quell the disturbance? If the animals didn't riot, the police would not need to bring out the riot gear and whip some butt. See how that works? Behave like a civilized person, get left alone.:cool:

The Israelis use snipers to pick out the mob leaders and then the shoot them in the knee with a scoped .22

I have zero problems with that. No moral dilemma, no righteous indignation, no outrage of circumstance, nothing. In addition to the knee, I would also put a few in the ankles, wrists, and elbows if the targets of opportunity were to present themselves. Basically do an Irish 6-pack from afar.

Glock411
08-15-2011, 12:16
Have to disagree with the "move" strategy, because it recommends major disruption and likely downgrade of lifestyle (as you leave your job, family, house or whatever your reasons you live where you do) for a minute probability of potential harm by a mob.

Take the Rodney King riots of LA. 53 people died, and that includes rioters themselves (for a better measure we should just take victims, not perps plus victims, but we'll take the conservative measure here and include the dirtbags too). There are almost 4 million people who live in LA. So chances of dying during one of the most violent outbursts in LA history were 1:76,000. If the odds were 1:1000 I'd think about moving, but one in seventy six thousand? I'm more likely to win the lottery than die in mob violence.

Good preparation is all about playing the odds, and odds don't favor death by mob action...that's a very rare scenario that some of us like to fantasize about. All types of assaults combined, account for a whopping 0.7% of all deaths in the USA.

We should be much much more concerned about things like seat-belting into our cars, stopping smoking, getting exercise to prevent heart disease, controlling weight. Your chances are an order of magnitude higher for dying of one of these controllable events, than mob violence.

In the Rodney King Riots, Most of the Korean business were not harmed or burned down, Because they were armed to the teeth, Just a couple of shots sent the rioters away, I new a couple of cops that were there They Believe in a armed populas) they said the Koreans were awsome, Some of the other cops would disarm the Koreans and they would just arm themselves back up. Almost all the Korean busnesses stayed intact.

In my whole neighborhood there maybe 8 gun owners and 75 non gun owners, Who is going to be hit in a riot. Even a shot gun spraying bird shot would scare away a lot of would be rioters, I would be armed with at least 2 hand guns a long gun and a shot gun with Hornady 00 Buck and some 1oz Slugs My house is my last stand.

eclark53520
08-15-2011, 12:20
So let me get this straight, you're sending your kids and wife out alone to make it an hour to her parents house? This is assuming it's bad enough in your area to want to bug out?


Makes perfect sense...

UneasyRider
08-15-2011, 14:30
Police were brutal? You mean the police did what they needed to do to quell the disturbance? If the animals didn't riot, the police would not need to bring out the riot gear and whip some butt. See how that works? Behave like a civilized person, get left alone.:cool:



I have zero problems with that. No moral dilemma, no righteous indignation, no outrage of circumstance, nothing. In addition to the knee, I would also put a few in the ankles, wrists, and elbows if the targets of opportunity were to present themselves. Basically do an Irish 6-pack from afar.

No brother, not what I was getting at. The police in Lawrence were brutal on a good day when there was no riot going on. The prevailing attitude was if you did not do what they said to do they would beat the crap out of you. Everyone knew it, many experienced it, many were greatful for it.

I was the manager of a Radio Shack store in Boston for 5 years and no one can ever tell me that police are clean up there. I could tell you 100 stories of police theft, graft, intimidation and other crimes that we dealt with first hand. It wasn't until I moved out of the north east that I trusted a cop, and that took a while.

1 old 0311
08-15-2011, 14:40
History has shown that dropping a few REALLY slows the attitude down.:whistling:

Misty02
08-15-2011, 17:31
So what about if you happen to find yourself in the area when the riot starts and you have no means of communication? You canít call the family to ask for help or tell them what area to stay away from or even call 911 if youíre injured. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
And before you say it canít happen: http://www.masstransitmag.com/news/10323288/ca-bart-blocks-cellphones-to-disrupt-protest (http://www.masstransitmag.com/news/10323288/ca-bart-blocks-cellphones-to-disrupt-protest)<o:p></o:p>


Bay Area Rapid Transit officials have said they shut down power Thursday evening to cellular towers for stations stretching from downtown to the San Francisco's airport after learning protesters planned to use mobile devices to coordinate its demonstration.<o:p></o:p>
</ARTICLE></SECTION>

.<o:p></o:p>

88MPH
08-15-2011, 20:54
It's so sad that we even have to discuss this as such a real possibility. Bad times ahead, flash mobs are just getting started.

Cavalry Doc
08-16-2011, 04:40
So what about if you happen to find yourself in the area when the riot starts and you have no means of communication? You canít call the family to ask for help or tell them what area to stay away from or even call 911 if youíre injured. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
And before you say it canít happen: http://www.masstransitmag.com/news/10323288/ca-bart-blocks-cellphones-to-disrupt-protest (http://www.masstransitmag.com/news/10323288/ca-bart-blocks-cellphones-to-disrupt-protest)<o:p></o:p>



.<o:p></o:p>

Keep a low profile, move out of the area. Might even think about messing up your hair, tearing up your shirt and ripping off a back pocket. Maybe people won't be as tempted by a tree that looks like it has already had it's fruit plucked. It's going to depend. In some of the recent fair riots, whites were targeted. If you can't blend, hide. If you are hiding and have to shoot, run, don't walk to another position as soon as possible.

Only thing close to a riot I've ever experienced without tank support and automatic weapons, was walking out of a store into a skinhead rally in Germany with my brother. We just walked with the crowd, and turned off on the next street. Short haircuts helped.

Misty02
08-16-2011, 05:32
Keep a low profile, move out of the area. Might even think about messing up your hair, tearing up your shirt and ripping off a back pocket. Maybe people won't be as tempted by a tree that looks like it has already had it's fruit plucked. It's going to depend. In some of the recent fair riots, whites were targeted. If you can't blend, hide. If you are hiding and have to shoot, run, don't walk to another position as soon as possible.

Only thing close to a riot I've ever experienced without tank support and automatic weapons, was walking out of a store into a skinhead rally in Germany with my brother. We just walked with the crowd, and turned off on the next street. Short haircuts helped.

That is actually a great idea, Cavalry Doc! One I might not have thought of in time. Thank you for planting the seed in my head. There is no chance of me blending in, so your idea offers the greatest possibility of making it out unharmed. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
If there are ever any such cases in Florida I better reconsider my choice of shoes as well, what I normally wear is not optimal for running and may not have a chance to make it to my vehicle for the spare of flats.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Itís funny (not the ha ha type) when I visited the mountain in Oneida, Kentucky over a decade ago they were having some problems with the KKK. The first thing they told me was to not outer a word if there were any problems so they couldnít detect my Spanish accent. For a period of a year I had to go there several times and even considered going back to my strawberry blond hair color to further increase my odds of blending in until I could manage to escape. Now it may be my accent that offers the greatest benefit.
<o:p></o:p>
I may have a false sense of security but I believe the possibility of things like that happening in Florida or Texas may be more remote. If it did happen here though, with the number of armed citizens we have, two things could happen: it will either end quickly and people would dissipate or it would be horrible and bloody. I donít want to be present to find out which.<o:p></o:p>

.

Haldor
08-16-2011, 08:26
Its a damn shame LG1. When you can't even go on vacation and worry about gangs, thugs and all the other trash trying to rip ya off. I lives in NYC for 20 years and know what your talking about. Shortly after I got married I moved out of state to a real nice area to eventually watch the scumbags I left move into the area I moved to. So I picked up again and moved to the burbs just outside a small city. In a different city where I work (as a defense contractor) my facility (owned by the US Army) is in the middle of a ghetto infested with the Bloods, Cryps. MS13 and other vermin. I can't seem to win. If I were a young man I'd consider relocating to a remote area of either Montana or Idaho, like I wanted to do years ealier.

How do you think they feel? Some enterprising young urban professional is trying to expand his business into under-served markets and he keeps running into you. I can hear him now. "Man I keep running into the same lame kind of guy, mows his yard, paints over my marketing signs. How is a banger supposed to make a living if his customers can't find him?"

What, are you against people improving themselves? :rofl:

Warp
08-16-2011, 13:23
I may have a false sense of security but I believe the possibility of things like that happening in Florida or Texas may be more remote. If it did happen here though, with the number of armed citizens we have, two things could happen: it will either end quickly and people would dissipate or it would be horrible and bloody. I donít want to be present to find out which.

From what I have seen neither FL nor TX ranks particularly high in terms of the % of the population licensed to carry a handgun. The highest were PA, SD, IN, OR...and a couple other I forget. TX was in the bottom. Primary reasons: You can have it in your car without a license, the CHL is rather expensive, training is required (and also costs $).

racerford
08-16-2011, 14:51
From what I have seen neither FL nor TX ranks particularly high in terms of the % of the population licensed to carry a handgun. The highest were PA, SD, IN, OR...and a couple other I forget. TX was in the bottom. Primary reasons: You can have it in your car without a license, the CHL is rather expensive, training is required (and also costs $).

Texaas law has changed on carrying in the car. Texas law allows carrying in your car if you are "travelling". That term is not defined in the law, and case law varied. The change was IIRC that the law now presumes you are travelling and the state has to prove otherwise. Doesn't mean you will not take a ride, but you might beat the wrap(sp?) if you are not licensed.

Before there was CHL a lot of people carried in their car. Most did not get charged with it unless they made trouble for themselves. Problem was that in some areas the color of your skin might be causing trouble for yourself.

Warp
08-16-2011, 16:01
Texaas law has changed on carrying in the car. Texas law allows carrying in your car if you are "travelling". That term is not defined in the law, and case law varied. The change was IIRC that the law now presumes you are travelling and the state has to prove otherwise. Doesn't mean you will not take a ride, but you might beat the wrap(sp?) if you are not licensed.

Before there was CHL a lot of people carried in their car. Most did not get charged with it unless they made trouble for themselves. Problem was that in some areas the color of your skin might be causing trouble for yourself.

The more I learn the worse TX laws turn out to be

Cavalry Doc
08-16-2011, 16:38
The more I learn the worse TX laws turn out to be

Maybe because what you just read is a little less than correct.

http://gritsforbreakfast.blogspot.com/2007/09/new-texas-gun-laws.html

Links to the statute are included in the link. Basically......

Legal, stowed weapons okay in vehicle
Reacting to Texas prosecutors who'd continued to arrest legal gun owners in spite of the Legislature's intent in a bill from 2005, this year the Texas Legislature set in stone the rights of legal gun owners to carry a weapon in their vehicle without violating the law. (Regular readers may recall The New York Times profiled the bill and discussed a public policy report I wrote on the subject.) The new statute says an individual cannot be charged with unlawfully carrying a weapon (UCW) in their personal vehicle unless:

the handgun is in plain view (not found as a result of a consent search),
the person is engaged in criminal activity other than traffic violations,
the person is legally disallowed from owning a weapon (e.g., past criminal convictions), or
the person's name is in the state of Texas' criminal street gang database.

Otherwise, if the weapon is concealed on your person or somewhere in the vehicle out of plain sight, and none of the other restrictions apply to you, it's now legal to carry a handgun in your car. N.b., even with the passage of this new law, the safest bet in Texas to avoid being hassled over your weapon is to get a concealed carry license. Then you're home free no matter what and don't have prosecutors sitting around thinking up reasons to apply exceptions to this new statute.

Maikeli7
08-16-2011, 16:58
Used to live in an environment prone to this. I got the heck out. Moved to a semi-rural, gun-loving, self-sufficient-type place where people will defend themselves and their loved-ones with deadly force. I fit right in!

Warp
08-16-2011, 17:52
Maybe because what you just read is a little less than correct.

http://gritsforbreakfast.blogspot.com/2007/09/new-texas-gun-laws.html

Links to the statute are included in the link. Basically......

I wondered.

G29Reload
08-16-2011, 18:01
History has shown that dropping a few REALLY slows the attitude down.:whistling:


I love you man!!!!

Misty02
08-16-2011, 18:09
From what I have seen neither FL nor TX ranks particularly high in terms of the % of the population licensed to carry a handgun. The highest were PA, SD, IN, OR...and a couple other I forget. TX was in the bottom. Primary reasons: You can have it in your car without a license, the CHL is rather expensive, training is required (and also costs $).

You may be right; we can legally carry in our home and can have a firearm in the vehicle without a license as long as it meets the securely encased requirements. Many are content with that and donít take the next step to get their license. We only have 843,463 (-93,722 out of state) licensees in the state; 76,466 of them in Miami-Dade County and 66,706 in our neighbor county of Broward.

.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

racerford
08-16-2011, 22:16
Maybe because what you just read is a little less than correct.

http://gritsforbreakfast.blogspot.com/2007/09/new-texas-gun-laws.html

Links to the statute are included in the link. Basically......

Thanks for the correction. I have a CHL so I didn't follow the changes for non-license holders well enough. I was thinking of change in 2005. I remember that the Harris County DA was skirting the intent of the old language.

At least the changes to the carry laws have continued to improve the rights since we got a shall issue CHL law. The pre-CHL "travelling" language was very vague, and purposefully so in my opinion so the local authorities had a lot of leeway in enforcing the law. People forget that restrictive carry laws were put into place to keep guns out of the hands of the "wrong people" (like freed slaves). The politicians who claim to be fighting for the people who were repressed with those laws are the same ones fighting to keep those repressive laws in place.

Cavalry Doc
08-17-2011, 04:51
Thanks for the correction. I have a CHL so I didn't follow the changes for non-license holders well enough. I was thinking of change in 2005. I remember that the Harris County DA was skirting the intent of the old language.

At least the changes to the carry laws have continued to improve the rights since we got a shall issue CHL law. The pre-CHL "travelling" language was very vague, and purposefully so in my opinion so the local authorities had a lot of leeway in enforcing the law. People forget that restrictive carry laws were put into place to keep guns out of the hands of the "wrong people" (like freed slaves). The politicians who claim to be fighting for the people who were repressed with those laws are the same ones fighting to keep those repressive laws in place.


From what I remember if the news around the time this went into effect, it didn't matter what color you were if you had one in Houston. Haven't been there in many years.

Anyway. I still advise friends to Get a CHL.

2c5s
09-10-2011, 22:52
. The second part is.....lexus gs400 with 3:92 rear, stock supra posi rear pumpin, apexi cat-back, srt cold air and piggy back, 3000 stall, and nitto tires on gs300 rims. Goes 13.3 in the quarter with a crappy transmission, which retards timing between gears. Thats a fast way to exit a riot area with 4-doors and a baby seat in the back!!!

Is that supposed to be impressive?

Akita
09-11-2011, 12:45
So I live less than a few miles from one of the top ten most dangerous and "urban" areas in the country, but right on the edge between the city and country. My neighborhood borders a cotton field... If London-style riots occur... my plan is to send the wife and kids the opposite way to stay with her parents, who live about an hour away in "real" country and are well armed and stocked with supplies. My neighbor and I plan on staying with our longarms and defending our homes for as long as possible. If we get completely outnumbered, we will climb into his 4x4 and head out across the cotton field where he will drop me off with the rest of the family and continue on his way to his own safe house...

Do you live in a vulnerable area? Do you have a plan? Do you have weapons? What will you do?

Move.
Survival/Preparedness os about seeing Risk an minimizing or eliminating it.
Get a new job at lesser pay if you have to. Or ask yourself what you life if worth per year.

1 old 0311
09-11-2011, 12:54
my vote for this post is 2 different items.....One, Mr. remington 870, glock 31, and sporterized to the max enfield .303(beyond fast shooter, no recoil, 10rd mag, very accurate) and the winny 94. The second part is.....lexus gs400 with 3:92 rear, stock supra posi rear pumpin, apexi cat-back, srt cold air and piggy back, 3000 stall, and nitto tires on gs300 rims. Goes 13.3 in the quarter with a crappy transmission, which retards timing between gears. Thats a fast way to exit a riot area with 4-doors and a baby seat in the back!!!



Wow!:wow: You can handle FOUR weapons, AND drive? :rofl::rofl::rofl:

bdcochran
09-12-2011, 07:43
I will take each day as it comes.

In 1963 I was driving a salesman on his route in a bad section of Los Angeles. I was instructed to drive to the nearest police station if I had an accident and not to stop.

Life is still the same OP.

When I was about 8 years old, there were two girls murdered and left in the woods behind the elementary school. I did some caculations and concluded that at least one kid from an elementary school would be murdered or molested each year. And, it turned out to be true. Even when my kid was going to an elementary school in a good neighborhood, it was true years later.

You will always have serial killers, maurauders, flash mobs, low lifes, child molesters.

Be alert and don't obsess.

lawman800
09-12-2011, 09:19
Wow!:wow: You can handle FOUR weapons, AND drive? :rofl:

Why? Can't you?:whistling::rofl::tongueout:

psk1
09-12-2011, 17:49
The rioters in London were anarchist and were looking for their free handouts and when Goverment had to cut back they went looking to get them on there own. in our country some of them will have guns and will be looking for more. so it could get worse here but only in commercial district.

quake
09-13-2011, 07:36
The rioters in London were anarchist and were looking for their free handouts and when Goverment had to cut back...

Rioters claimed to be anarchists but their actions show the opposite. Anarchism advocates the abolition of government - to protest for more government goodies is not the action of an anarchist; at least not an intellectually-honest anarchist.

It's the action of a violent parasite.

lawman800
09-13-2011, 08:22
They have no idea what true anarchy is. It's the same as these wannabe gangsters trying to act hard. Get them in a real bind and watch them cry for mommy.

In true anarchy, most of these so called anarchists would not live past a few minutes as the real thugs of the world start killing, looting, raping, and doing what they do in a lawless world. The flip side would be some fed up citizen emptying his shotgun into the crowd and killing Bobby Bedlam and his friends.

These kids would beg any semblance of government to save them.