Advice for purchasing my first 1911?

[nathanours]

Hey guys, in the next week or so I will have roughly 750 to spend on a new 1911.

I do not want something with a rail, and really do not need a lot of fancy new features or whatever. I just want something reliable and accurate.

The guns I've been looking at so far are:

Kimber (are there any lower end ones with an all steel frame?)

Ruger sr1911

Remington R1911

Which if these is the best? Any pro's and con's I should be aware of? Gun will be for hiking, Target shooting and self defense. I would like an all steel gun, and possibly one of the smaller framed ones. Does Colt make any guns in my price range?

Thanks,

Nathan

[SpringerTGO]

I would add Springfield to the list. Their customer service is as good as it gets.
I have only owned 1 Kimber, and would never buy another.
I don't have experience with either the Ruger or Remington, but have read good things about them.

[nathanours]

Thanks for the input, but why no kimber? And I'd like American made. I forgot about Springfield, they are definitely on the list too.

[glock2740]

Personally, I would choose a Kimber Custom II over any of the comparatively priced SA's, and over the Ruger or Remington. The Desert Eagle is a quality gun in that range as well.

[Z28ricer]

All steel.
Smaller frame.


Springfield Ultra Compact.

I think $100 or so over your listed budget, only one that comes to mind for me.

[nastytrigger]

All the 1911's you've listed are great guns. Kimber and Springer have a great track record. Remington and Ruger are newer to the 1911 market, but they have excellent offerings.

I chose Springfield over Kimber when I was in the market for a entry-level 1911 with Springfield winning over on customer service and price.

[nathanours]

What models should I be looking at from Springfield? Also, which are series 70 and 80? I prefer 70 but 80 isn't a deal breaker. I know the Remington is an 80. Which of these has the best fit and finish?

[Z28ricer]

The only one from springfield that meets your listed want for an officers frame, and all steel, is the Ultra-Compact.

Any others will either be alloy frame, or fullsize frame.

[Quack]

what models should i be looking at from springfield? Also, which are series 70 and 80? I prefer 70 but 80 isn't a deal breaker. I know the remington is an 80. which of these has the best fit and finish?

sti...

[Z28ricer]

sti...

Good point, forgot that the guardian was steel frame.

Bit more than the springfield, bit better made :dunno:

[Quack]

dunno where you got that he wanted a compact size only?

he said possibly.

[Z28ricer]

I would like an all steel gun, and possibly one of the smaller framed ones. Does Colt make any guns in my price range?

Thanks,

Nathan


:headscratch:

I didnt say anything about anyone suggesting fullsized frames, I was only pointing out what came to mind for officers frame, steel choices.

[Quack]

all the other guns he lister were 5"

[Z28ricer]

all the other guns he lister were 5"


All of the guns he listed period were 5"

He said he possibly wanted one with a smaller frame.

I was letting him know what came to mind for small frame, and met his all steel requirement...


Your point is still unclear...

[faawrenchbndr]

Hey guys, in the next week or so I will have roughly 750 to spend on a new 1911.

I do not want something with a rail, and really do not need a lot of fancy new features or whatever. I just want something reliable and accurate.

The guns I've been looking at so far are:

Kimber (are there any lower end ones with an all steel frame?)

Ruger sr1911

Remington R1911

Which if these is the best? Any pro's and con's I should be aware of? Gun will be for hiking, Target shooting and self defense. I would like an all steel gun, and possibly one of the smaller framed ones. Does Colt make any guns in my price range?

Thanks,

Nathan

If you can save up a bit more,........I'd suggest a Colt Series 70

[bac1023]

At $750, the Kimber Custom II is a nice value, as is the Smith SW1911.

[SigFTW]

I like my Kimber, it eats everything I put thru it.

[fnfalman]

I'd say for the first M1911, I'd go cheap with one of the many highly serviceable Filipino jobs.

[nathanours]

I'd actually probably prefer a full size. The idea of the compacts is cool though. I definitely want all steel for the frame material. Are the Kimber custom II all steel? Are they series 70? What about the Sprungfields in my price range?

[frogger42]

I'd actually probably prefer a full size. The idea of the compacts is cool though. I definitely want all steel for the frame material. Are the Kimber custom II all steel? Are they series 70? What about the Sprungfields in my price range?

No, the Kimbers are not Series 70 (at least the Series II ones aren't). They use something called a Schwarz system which a lot of people do not care for. The Springfield and Ruger are Series 70 and they would be where I would stick in your price range. If you can find an older Kimber that is not Series II, they are Series 70. If I was going to buy a Kimber, I'd stick with the Series 1 guns. They do actually make a few Series 1 guns now, but they are not in your price range.

[alwaysshootin]

Get yourself a Kimber, and don't settle for less. It offers everything to meet your criteria, and you won't find a better U.S. made 1911 for the price. I agree with your feeling on the rail.

[bac1023]

The Springfield Range Officer is another great choice.

[alwaysshootin]

The Springfield Range Officer is another great choice.

Just one question, and it doesn't matter much to me, but it does to the OP. Is the Range Officer made in the U.S.?

[rb12]

my first 1911 was a full sized kimber custom, pre-series II, but it was very reliable. CDP (although pricier than your range) has always had a special place for me. Nothing wrong with kimber imo

[SpringerTGO]

Thanks for the input, but why no kimber? And I'd like American made. I forgot about Springfield, they are definitely on the list too.

I had bad enough luck with my first Kimber that I made it my last. Lots of people swear by them, but it seems like way too many buy them and end up replacing springs, magazines, etc. The issues I had with mine were common, the repair from Kimber sounded common as well, and the Kimber still didn't work right when I got it back.

Springfield service is second to none, regardless of how much you spend on a 1911. They have forged frames, and they also have a great custom shop, should you decide to upgrade.

When I ordered my $3000 Nighthawk, I didn't expect it to be better than my Springfield. I was hoping it would be as good. Personally, I'd take my Springfield over my Nighthawk any day.

[nathanours]

What springfields are in my price range? Is there a mil spec model with an entirely steel frame and larger sights?

[frogger42]

What springfields are in my price range? Is there a mil spec model with an entirely steel frame and larger sights?

I think your best bet would be a Springfield Range Officer, but you could get a Mil-Spec or one of the more basic Loaded models too.

[Z28ricer]

What springfields are in my price range? Is there a mil spec model with an entirely steel frame and larger sights?

Lots of stuff is in your price range, you may just want to actually search around, let people know what you've narrowed it down to and ask for input after that...

[nastytrigger]

My Springfield Loaded was $859, I believe. A Loaded is a Mil Spec with more features. Not sure what prices are on either. The RO is above these two (tighter fit). All of these are steel frames.

GI is the basic 1911A1.

Mil Spec has lowered ejection port, taller sights, beveled mag well, polished feed ramp, throated barrel, angled serrations.

Loaded has front/rear serrations, flat mainspring housing, loaded chamber indicator, carry bevel, beavertail grip, dovetail front sight, Novak or adjustable rear, lightweight trigger, ambi-safety, and 2-piece guide rod.

The RO has adjustable rear sight, dovetailed front, rear slant serrations, flat mainspring housing, match barrel, beavertail grip, lightweight trigger, standard guide rod, more hand fitting.

I'm sure I missed some of the features, but that's majority. All the GI, Mil Spec, Loaded, and RO are parkerized. Everything, but the RO, can be had stainless.

[Quack]

parkerized Loaded is about $750 around here as well

[Z28ricer]

My Springfield Loaded was $859, I believe. A Loaded is a Mil Spec with more features. Not sure what prices are on either. The RO is above these two (tighter fit). All of these are steel frames.

GI is the basic 1911A1.

Mil Spec has lowered ejection port, taller sights, beveled mag well, polished feed ramp, throated barrel, angled serrations.

Loaded has front/rear serrations, flat mainspring housing, loaded chamber indicator, carry bevel, beavertail grip, dovetail front sight, Novak or adjustable rear, lightweight trigger, ambi-safety, and 2-piece guide rod.

The RO has adjustable rear sight, dovetailed front, rear slant serrations, flat mainspring housing, match barrel, beavertail grip, lightweight trigger, standard guide rod, more hand fitting.

I'm sure I missed some of the features, but that's majority. All the GI, Mil Spec, Loaded, and RO are parkerized. Everything, but the RO, can be had stainless.

I dont think any of the loaded have a carry bevel ?

[nathanours]

Personally I lean a little toward a dark finish but wouldn't mind stainless. How do these guns compare to the new remington 1911?

[nastytrigger]

I dont think any of the loaded have a carry bevel ?

Actually, I quoted the specs off of SA's website. They say it has a carry bevel, but I think it's more of a random here-and-there bevel. Definitely not the Custom Shop bevel.

My Loaded's cocking serrations are a little sharp and so is the low part of the front strap where the magazine bottom nestles into. I've used that part to cut something open when I didn't have my knife on me.


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[nastytrigger]

How do these guns compare to the new remington 1911?

I've never fondled a Remington 1911, so I'm not sure how fit/finish relates.

I'm not even sure if the 'Enhanced' Remington is out?

The basic Remington 1911, as far as specs, compares to the Mil Spec, I believe. I believe it already has the lowered/flared ejection port and taller sights (dovetail front?).

I forget whose Rem 1911 this is. The Remington makes a great base gun to customize to the individuals likes:
218409

[nathanours]

I am almost wondering if I shouldn't get a more basic mil spec gun, and then just change what I want to later. I am honestly not even sure about what half of the features you guys are talking about are.

[thecableguy]

I am almost wondering if I shouldn't get a more basic mil spec gun, and then just change what I want to later. I am honestly not even sure about what half of the features you guys are talking about are.

That is what I would do. Get used to it first and then either buy another (oh yes there will be others) with the features you want or have a smith do the work on your existing one.

[nastytrigger]

I am almost wondering if I shouldn't get a more basic mil spec gun, and then just change what I want to later. I am honestly not even sure about what half of the features you guys are talking about are.

If you have any questions on features, don't be afraid to ask. Ask away :)

There are too many 1911 features. I think the last two features I learned about were French Cuts and Ball Cuts on the slide.

[nathanours]

Alright then :wavey:

So, educate me on some of this if you will:

lowered ejection port (what's the purpose?)

beveled mag well (does this just make it easier to insert the mag?)

throated barrel (what is the purpose of this? easier feeding?)

flat mainspring housing (is that the standard? what are the other options and their advantages/disadvantages?)

carry bevel (no idea on this one)

lightweight trigger (why is this desirable?)

standard guide rod (as opposed to....?)

I've seen these brought up and was wondering what is the purpose of them all. Also, which platform would make the best base to mod from?

Right now my short(ish) list is:
(In no particular order)

Kimber Custom II
Springfield mil-spec
Springfield loaded
Remington R1911
Ruger SR1911
STI Trojan

Can anyone give me a guess of what these would cost? Any stand out as better among the rest? Which Would be better to mod should I want to? I want this as a self-defense/hiking gun so that kinda makes me think I wouldn't want the SA Range Master.

Thanks!

[bac1023]

I'm not even sure if the 'Enhanced' Remington is out?



Its out.

I handled one last week.

[nastytrigger]

So, educate me on some of this if you will:

lowered ejection port (what's the purpose?)

beveled mag well (does this just make it easier to insert the mag?)

throated barrel (what is the purpose of this? easier feeding?)

flat mainspring housing (is that the standard? what are the other options and their advantages/disadvantages?)

carry bevel (no idea on this one)

lightweight trigger (why is this desirable?)

standard guide rod (as opposed to....?)

I'm not a 1911 guru, but I'll try to answer to the best of my knowledge.

Lowered/flared ejection port:
Original 1911's, Colt's, had no such thing. I believe the issue was reliability, or just the way brass was extracted, also... just cosmetic. Everything on your list has a lowered/flared ejection port.

Beveled mag well:
You're right. Just a slight bevel is put into the sides and rear of the mag well to assist in loading mags.

Throated barrel:
I think this term came about from the 1911 feeding just FMJ hardball. If the round was hitting a certain point, throating it would allow it to feed smoother. Also, done to feed hollow points more reliably.

Mainspring Housing Flat vs Arched:
Original 1911 had a flat. The A1 had an arched. Now-a-days, flat has won out in popularity, but arched it still an option. I use flat, but I think the arched will make the gun shoot lower, I believe? Something...

Carry bevel:
Gets rid of all the sharp edges on the gun.

Lightweight trigger:
I may need some help on this one... Original 1911 triggers were steel, I believe. Aluminum is current. Lightweight doesn't allow trigger movement (seems like there was issue of steel triggers firing full-auto?)

Guide rod:
The standard is the plug, no rod, that can be taken apart with no tools. Some guns come with a full-length guide rod, one-price or two. Both require tools to disassemble. One a special tool/paperclip, the other an Allen wrench. The rods add weight, some say it helps the spring not coil/get caught. My Loaded came with a two-piece rod and I took it out for a standard GI plug, no rod.

Hope this helps.

[fnfalman]

Alright then :wavey:

So, educate me on some of this if you will:

lowered ejection port (what's the purpose?)

beveled mag well (does this just make it easier to insert the mag?)

throated barrel (what is the purpose of this? easier feeding?)

flat mainspring housing (is that the standard? what are the other options and their advantages/disadvantages?)

carry bevel (no idea on this one)

lightweight trigger (why is this desirable?)

standard guide rod (as opposed to....?)

I've seen these brought up and was wondering what is the purpose of them all. Also, which platform would make the best base to mod from?

Lowered ejection port supposedly makes ejection of brasses more reliable. The brass flies right out and has lesser chance of bouncing back into the gun. Some manufacturers even gone as far as scalloping back a piece of the ejection port in addition to widening it.

Beveled mag well does tend to help with mag insertion. Some guns even gone as far as having flared mag well extension.

Ramped and throated barrels were made for the purpose of feeding hollowpoints better.

Flat main spring housing supposedly helps a person point the gun better. For me, flat or round, it matters not.

Carry bevel (aka melt job) is when somebody makes all the external sharp edges go away.

Light weight trigger - I'm sure there's some mechanical merits for them but for the life of me I can't figure it out. To me a well tuned trigger group is more important than what the trigger is made out of.

The full length guide rod was designed to aid in mechanical accuracy. My guns are not bullseye guns, so I keep them with the original half-rod/short-rod/GI setup.

Right now my short(ish) list is:
(In no particular order)

Kimber Custom II
Springfield mil-spec
Springfield loaded
Remington R1911
Ruger SR1911
STI Trojan

Can anyone give me a guess of what these would cost? Any stand out as better among the rest? Which Would be better to mod should I want to? I want this as a self-defense/hiking gun so that kinda makes me think I wouldn't want the SA Range Master.

Thanks!

You really need to check out some of the Filipino offerings. The ones from ATI (Titan model) are very, very, very nice. I know that you said you want "American" gun, but the Springfield is Brazilian. Some of the STIs are also Filipino made.

My other suggestion would be to buy used. There are tons of used M1911s running around. I bought my used Springfield Loaded for $350. Yes, that's right.

[Quack]

If you have any questions on features, don't be afraid to ask. Ask away :)

There are too many 1911 features. I think the last two features I learned about were French Cuts and Ball Cuts on the slide.

how about the hidden leaf cut?

http://photosbydon.smugmug.com/photos/1049015777_LYdTL-L.jpg

[bac1023]

There are too many 1911 features. I think the last two features I learned about were French Cuts and Ball Cuts on the slide.

That's French borders, my friend...


http://i473.photobucket.com/albums/rr97/briancut1023/004-1.jpg

http://i473.photobucket.com/albums/rr97/briancut1023/002-11.jpg



http://i473.photobucket.com/albums/rr97/briancut1023/020-1.jpg

http://i473.photobucket.com/albums/rr97/briancut1023/009-8.jpg



http://i473.photobucket.com/albums/rr97/briancut1023/000_0002_1-3.jpg

http://i473.photobucket.com/albums/rr97/briancut1023/000_0003_1-2.jpg

[nastytrigger]

That's French borders, my friend...

Well ooh là là :)
218419


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[bac1023]

Well ooh là là :)
218419


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:rofl::rofl:

[nathanours]

Those are beautiful bac. I'm going to my local gun store today to look around. I'll probably buy one by the end of this week when my pay check arrives.

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

[nathanours]

Well I went to the local gun store today and handled a few and man there is something about the 1911 grip that just feels good. They had 2 Springfields that I like the best, a mil spec and a loaded. In person I kind of like the stainless, but it's a wash. I handled some RIAs and there is definitely a lack of quality in the finish compared to the others. They are supposed to get a R1911 in later this week so I'll check that out when it comes in as well.

They had one gun in there that was a Wilson I think that was worked over by a guy called Ted Youst, and that thing was incredibly smooth! Sadly it isn't even for sale...

[bac1023]

They had one gun in there that was a Wilson I think that was worked over by a guy called Ted Youst, and that thing was incredibly smooth! Sadly it isn't even for sale...

Ted Yost is one of the best in the business.

[alwaysshootin]

They had one gun in there that was a Wilson I think that was worked over by a guy called Ted Youst, and that thing was incredibly smooth! Sadly it isn't even for sale...

Trust me, you are better off that it wasn't! You would be amazed at how expensive a 1911 can be. :wow:

[nathanours]

Trust me, you are better off that it wasn't! You would be amazed at how expensive a 1911 can be. :wow:

Ya there was no possible way that gun could be in my $750 budget. The fit on that thing was insane though.

My shop doesn't even carry Kimbers anymore; the owner said it was because they had had problems with bad customer service, so maybe I'll cross the Custom II off my list.

They had an STI Spartan there that was pretty nice, but it was in 9mm so it was out of the question. They said they've had em on backorder forever now.

[alwaysshootin]

Ya there was no possible way that gun could be in my $750 budget.

Wouldn't be surprised, if it had a price tag, the price was, 4X, what you are looking to spend.

Like I said, get a Kimber, you will be pleased! Nothing wrong with STI from what I've heard, or Springfield either. Just don't be disappointed when you pull the grip panels on a Springer, that it says Made In Brazil. Nothing wrong, mind you, whatsoever, with that, just isn't made in the U.S., as you requested.

[bac1023]

Ya there was no possible way that gun could be in my $750 budget. The fit on that thing was insane though.

My shop doesn't even carry Kimbers anymore; the owner said it was because they had had problems with bad customer service, so maybe I'll cross the Custom II off my list.

They had an STI Spartan there that was pretty nice, but it was in 9mm so it was out of the question. They said they've had em on backorder forever now.

The STI Spartan is one of the best sub $700 1911s you can buy.




I also love the Desert Eagle 1911. :cool:


http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu81/ollituc/005-18.jpg

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu81/ollituc/010-8.jpg

[alwaysshootin]

The STI Spartan is one of the best sub $700 1911s you can buy.




I also love the Desert Eagle 1911. :cool:


http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu81/ollituc/005-18.jpg

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu81/ollituc/010-8.jpg

OMG!:wow: Guess Magnum Research thought Taurus had a really nice rollmark!:supergrin:

[bac1023]

OMG!:wow: Guess Magnum Research thought Taurus had a really nice rollmark!:supergrin:

:rofl:

Yeah, the rollmark is the only bad thing about it.

It really is an awesome 1911 for the money. Its got a great trigger.

[SpringerTGO]

Wouldn't be surprised, if it had a price tag, the price was, 4X, what you are looking to spend.

Like I said, get a Kimber, you will be pleased! Nothing wrong with STI from what I've heard, or Springfield either. Just don't be disappointed when you pull the grip panels on a Springer, that it says Made In Brazil. Nothing wrong, mind you, whatsoever, with that, just isn't made in the U.S., as you requested.

I'll take my Brazilian Springer over anything Kimber makes, for accuracy, reliability, fit, and finish.
And I would much rather have a forged Brazilian frame than a cast American one......... that is assuming that Kimber's frames are cast in the U.S.A. I've heard they aren't, but can't say for sure.
As far as service goes, I've dealt with both companies. If you get a Kimber that needs service, you might as well send it off to Brazil, because that's how it takes.

[alwaysshootin]

:rofl:

Yeah, the rollmark is the only bad thing about it.

It really is an awesome 1911 for the money. Its got a great trigger.

To be honest, thanks for the DE pic, it's the first one I've seen! Kind of odd, to me, they make the decision to leave off the front cocking serrations, then go with that rollmark. What was somebody thinking? Great decision/terrible decision!

[alwaysshootin]

I'll take my Brazilian Springer over anything Kimber makes, for accuracy, reliability, fit, and finish.
And I would much rather have a forged Brazilian frame than a cast American one......... that is assuming that Kimber's frames are cast in the U.S.A. I've heard they aren't, but can't say for sure.
As far as service goes, I've dealt with both companies. If you get a Kimber that needs service, you might as well send it off to Brazil, because that's how it takes.

Man said, what he wanted was U.S. made, and I didn't want him to be disappointed later with a Springer after finding out it wasn't. As far as Kimber casting/forging, as you claim, elsewhere, the tag that comes on the trigger guard of a new Kimber disputes that accusation! Not to mention the extras that come with a Kimber Custom, over the Mil Spec, is well, well, worth the initial price difference. Sorry you had a problem with Kimber! I've owned six without a single problem!

[nathanours]

Are Sprungfields entirely made in Brazil or is it just a few parts? If I have to send it in for work do I have to send it to Brazil?

[bac1023]

Are Sprungfields entirely made in Brazil or is it just a few parts? If I have to send it in for work do I have to send it to Brazil?

Loaded and Mil Spec models are mostly all made in Brazil.

[alwaysshootin]

Are Sprungfields entirely made in Brazil or is it just a few parts? If I have to send it in for work do I have to send it to Brazil?

No you won't have to send it to Brazil. The forgings on some of the Springers are done there. They do an excellent job by the way! They are really good at that, as others have mentioned! Here's the thing though, IMHO for a good shooting 1911, I have to have a high rise beaver tail safety, combat hammer (needed for the high rise beaver tail), and a long trigger. If you buy a Springfield Milspec, it doesn't come with those, and if you decide to add those things later, and do the fitting yourself, with the additional cost of parts alone, you'd of saved money getting the Kimber, which comes with those additions. Not to mention, a match grade, fitted barrel, and bushing. Price one of those out if you think it might be something of interest down the road.

If, for discussion, you decide to go with the MS, and decide to go with the additions I suggested, you'd be what, $800-$900 into it? If later, you decide you want something else, it happens. Just what do you think you'll be able to get out of your Milspec? Like I said get a Kimber, and it will fill your desires out of the box!

[nathanours]

I'll try to get down to the other local shop and check out the Kimbers. The general feel of the gun when it's actually in my hands means a lot to me, so I'll have to see how the Kimber compares.

How does the Custom II compare to the Springfield Loaded model?

ETA: wow for some reason my phone keeps auto-correcting Springfield to Sprungfield... weird.

Do the Kimber Custom II's come in stainless? If so, do those models cost a lot more?

ETA2: is there any difference in quality from the ones in Brazil?

[bac1023]

To be honest, thanks for the DE pic, it's the first one I've seen! Kind of odd, to me, they make the decision to leave off the front cocking serrations, then go with that rollmark. What was somebody thinking? Great decision/terrible decision!

Actually, I believe the current models have front serrations. :sad:

[bac1023]

When I ordered my $3000 Nighthawk, I didn't expect it to be better than my Springfield. I was hoping it would be as good. Personally, I'd take my Springfield over my Nighthawk any day.

:dunno:

Judging by your member name, I assume you're referring to this Springfield...


http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu81/ollituc/006-13.jpg



In that case, yes, I would take it over any Nighthawk.

[SpringerTGO]

Man said, what he wanted was U.S. made, and I didn't want him to be disappointed later with a Springer after finding out it wasn't. As far as Kimber casting/forging, as you claim, elsewhere, the tag that comes on the trigger guard of a new Kimber disputes that accusation! Not to mention the extras that come with a Kimber Custom, over the Mil Spec, is well, well, worth the initial price difference. Sorry you had a problem with Kimber! I've owned six without a single problem!

That's an awful lot of exclamation points. You must have a heavy duty keyboard.
My Springfield says U.S.A. on the side. I doubt that means every part is made in the U.S.A. but it is assembled, fitted, tested, and serviced here.
There has been lots of speculation on Kimber frames being cast in Korea. Don't bust a keyboard on that statement.

When I did need service on my Springfield, Springfield issued call tags and paid shipping both ways. The service took about 8 days. I could actually call and speak with the gunsmith who worked on it. He even recommended aftermarket parts by another manufacturer, got them in, and installed them for me.

Kimber????? ROFL!
Over 6 weeks and the handgun returned as bad as it went out. Try calling Kimber and speaking with the person working on your 1911.

Seriously, OP...... call both companies, ask about custom work, and see who is willing to work with you. I'd rather give up a few features initially and get a good basic platform that I can upgrade down the road.

[bac1023]

I'll take my Brazilian Springer over anything Kimber makes, for accuracy, reliability, fit, and finish.


If its the TGO you're referring to, they aren't made in Brazil.

[joemannnnn]

When I researched buying my 1st 1911 I landed with a SA Loaded stainless. Good reviews and great customer service. However I kept hearing about how great the STI Trojan was. So the loaded got traded in for this:

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-EU6rgifzK8o/TfaOmngU5lI/AAAAAAAAATI/q5gTRIIdbOY/s1024/DSC_0016.JPG

No regrets, she is sweet. And their customer service is top notch as well. I would give the Trojan and the Spartan a hard look. May need to buy online in order to snag one, I had to

[nathanours]

How much do those Trojans run on average?

I also just want to say thanks to all you guys for answering my many questions and helping me with this.

Bac, in that pic of the DE 1911, it has no front slide serrations. In all the pics of them selling online I see it has them. Where are these made? How is fit and finish?

[bac1023]

Bac, in that pic of the DE 1911, it has no front slide serrations. In all the pics of them selling online I see it has them. Where are these made? How is fit and finish?

They're made in Israel. The first models had no serrations, but sadly, they do now.

I think the fit and finish is fantastic.

[joemannnnn]

Dude, you were born in Texas, STI hands down

[limbkiller]

I also just want to say thanks to all you guys for answering my many questions and helping me with this.

Bac, in that pic of the DE 1911, it has no front slide serrations. In all the pics of them selling online I see it has them. Where are these made? How is fit and finish?
Made in Israel and all of them now have FCS. Beat me to it Brian.
Fantastic shooting 1911. My fave in the collection to shoot.

[bac1023]

Dude, you were born in Texas, STI hands down

The Trojan kicks ass. :)


http://i1209.photobucket.com/albums/cc398/cutillo_2011/085.jpg

http://i1209.photobucket.com/albums/cc398/cutillo_2011/088.jpg

[nathanours]

Thanks Bac, my problem is, I am really big on handling a gun in person and looking it over before I buy it.

This somewhat limits me to what my local stores have in stock. I'd love too look over some of the STI offerings, and those from Magnum Research, the problem is finding them. Same goes for the Remington and the Ruger. I'll go check a few more places around town tomorrow and see what I can find.

My shop has a Dan Wesson CCO for 800 right now that is like new. Are those things any good?

[SpringerTGO]

:dunno:

Judging by your member name, I assume you're referring to this Springfield...


http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu81/ollituc/006-13.jpg



In that case, yes, I would take it over any Nighthawk.

That's the one.
It's not quite as fancy as the Nighthawk, but it's easier for me to shoot, has a better trigger, has a much better ambi safety (now that Springfield changed it out), and the service doesn't compare.

[nathanours]

I just saw on another thread that the Springfield has an ILS. What's the deal with that?

And why is a longer trigger better? What are the advantages/Disadvantages?

[S9Man]

Why isn't anyone talking about Colt? The good ol' Colt Goverment Model. That's what you should think about when you think 1911. I think anyones first 1911 should be a Colt, a old used one would be best. My fist 1911 was a AMT Hardballer longslide. It was awesome!

[limbkiller]

Thanks Bac, my problem is, I am really big on handling a gun in person and looking it over before I buy it.

This somewhat limits me to what my local stores have in stock. I'd love too look over some of the STI offerings, and those from Magnum Research, the problem is finding them. Same goes for the Remington and the Ruger. I'll go check a few more places around town tomorrow and see what I can find.

My shop has a Dan Wesson CCO for 800 right now that is like new. Are those things any good?
Yes that is a good buy on the DW. Suggested retail is 1523.00. If it is as you say then that is as good a gun as has been talked about on this thread.

[bac1023]

That's the one.
It's not quite as fancy as the Nighthawk, but it's easier for me to shoot, has a better trigger, has a much better ambi safety (now that Springfield changed it out), and the service doesn't compare.

Its not built in Brazil though.

It starts with Brazilian forgings, but its built in the USA in by Springfield Custom.

I'd take it over any of my Nighthawks.

[GJ1981]

:mememe:

I have some things to say about SA...:steamed:

[bac1023]

:mememe:

I have some things to say about SA...:steamed:

No doubt ;)

[GJ1981]

No doubt ;)

I can't help but share how awesome mine have been :whistling: at being returned for repairs multiple times or not fixed properly by SACS



Maybe it's time for me to head back under my bridge before the Crown gets the bests of me :drink:

[thecableguy]

:mememe:

I have some things to say about SA...:steamed:

:rofl::rofl: Sorry you had some many problem with SACS man but these post make me :rofl::rofl:

[midliferally]

Dude, buy the Dan Wesson!!if you don't tell me where it is.....:tongueout:

[Z28ricer]

Wait, now a $2000-3000$ springfield, is being used as comparison, to down other sub $1000 choices to sway this guy one way or another ?

Goodness, kimber crybabys are annoying, but so far this one takes the cake.

Better service and function from a gun you paid 2-3x the $ for, what a surprise.

[bac1023]

Wait, now a $2000-3000$ springfield, is being used as comparison, to down other sub $1000 choices to sway this guy one way or another ?

Goodness, kimber crybabys are annoying, but so far this one takes the cake.

Better service and function from a gun you paid 2-3x the $ for, what a surprise.

I have no problems with my three Kimbers.

[Z28ricer]

I have no problems with my three Kimbers.

I know ya dont, but you definetly arent the guy crying kimbers suck due to one bad experience, then praising how great springfield is, and then it coming to light that the amazingly better pistol is one of 2-3x the cost.

:whistling:

[GJ1981]

:rofl::rofl: Sorry you had some many problem with SACS man but these post make me :rofl::rofl:

I can't help it even though I tried to stop. I just love trolling SA at times :supergrin: too bad I can't do it on TOS...LW Mc****** would probably have a 3 a.m. raid conducted on my house from behind his desk

[bac1023]

I know ya dont, but you definetly arent the guy crying kimbers suck due to one bad experience, then praising how great springfield is, and then it coming to light that the amazingly better pistol is one of 2-3x the cost.

:whistling:

I was also wondering why he was comparing those guns to a TGO1.

Its far from your everyday Springfield. :dunno:

[joemannnnn]

How much do those Trojans run

The base is $1,000. Mine was $1,100 because I added a fiber optic front sight and an ambi safety. Bac's is hard chromed, that's another $300

[joemannnnn]

Oh and regarding the DW CCO, that was my latest addition:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-WXmaPR6zonQ/Ti9T88tY8ZI/AAAAAAAAAWs/QJLtQkDiLDs/s912/DSC_0103.JPG

This will be my carry gun. They have A light weight alloy frame, so they won't have the range life of the others mentioned. BUT, they are top notch, and for $800 that is a steal if like new. I think $1,000 would be good for slightly used. They are almost $1,400 new

[thecableguy]

I can't help it even though I tried to stop. I just love trolling SA at times :supergrin: too bad I can't do it on TOS...LW Mc****** would probably have a 3 a.m. raid conducted on my house from behind his desk

GET HIM BOYS
http://maggiemcneill.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/dallas-swat.jpg:rofl::rofl:

[nathanours]

The deal is I'm pretty much getting paid $850 at the end of this week for some work I did earlier this summer. So for now, I'm trying to do all the research I can to figure out what'd best suit my needs.

If your interested the DW CCO is at 5280 armory in Old Town Arvada, CO. It's just not exactly what I'm looking for, and at the high end of my price range.

After looking today, I am quite sure I want a full size steel frame. I've got enough compact polymer framed guns, and want something different.

I'll search around and see what Kimber Custom IIs run for in my area, and try to see one in person, as well as the Desert Eagle and STI Spartan. If the Trojan is running 1k it's really out of my budget.

The Springfield Mil-spec seemed nice, what is the advantage of the longer trigger on the enhanced models? What exactly does the beavertail do?

[SpringerTGO]

I was comparing my only Kimber purchase to my only Springfield purchase.

Sorry I don't have more experience with Kimber, but after buying a $1300+ POS that wouldn't work even after 6+ weeks at Kimber, I decided not to buy another.
Although it was considerably less expensive than the TGO, $1300 is not exactly a cheap handgun. I think $1300+ should buy a reliable handgun, don't you? I understand that mistakes happen, but after 6 weeks in the shop, shouldn't a $1300+ handgun be reliable?

And lots not forget, my $3K Springfield is built on those nasty Brazilian forgings.

The facts still are that Kimbers service was pathetic, and Springfields was great. Springfields service is a lot more personal, and they will bend over backwards to do custom work.

[nastytrigger]

I just saw on another thread that the Springfield has an ILS. What's the deal with that?

And why is a longer trigger better? What are the advantages/Disadvantages?

The ILS is an internal locking system in the back of the gun (in the mainspring housing to be exact). Turn the key supplied key and it locks the hammer so it remains uncocked, no movement. Guns a paperweight.

The ILS mainspring housing can be taken out and replaced with the flat or arched housing of your choice if you so decide.

Besides cosmetics, I don't mind my ILS on my Loaded. I used it once just to try it and haven't used it since. I'd like to get a new mainspring housing, or S&A mag well, but can't decide what I want, or need...

As far as trigger, my Loaded came with the three-hole style aluminum long trigger. Original 1911's had short triggers. Besides personal preference, and people with small hands that can't reach long triggers, not sure any other advantages/disadvantages.

[Z28ricer]

I was comparing my only Kimber purchase to my only Springfield purchase.

Sorry I don't have more experience with Kimber, but after buying a $1300+ POS that wouldn't work even after 6+ weeks at Kimber, I decided not to buy another.
Although it was considerably less expensive than the TGO, $1300 is not exactly a cheap handgun. I think $1300+ should buy a reliable handgun, don't you? I understand that mistakes happen, but after 6 weeks in the shop, shouldn't a $1300+ handgun be reliable?

And lots not forget, my $3K Springfield is built on those nasty Brazilian forgings.

The facts still are that Kimbers service was pathetic, and Springfields was great. Springfields service is a lot more personal, and they will bend over backwards to do custom work.'

Cool story man, my kimber is 4 years old now, still working, it did have a small issue when I got it, and was remedied quickly.

Plenty of others here who have great working kimbers, or those who were well taken care of.

Its understandable if you want to let someone know that you had a bad experience.

Its annoying when you keep at it repetitively, insisting thats whats going to happen to anyone buying a kimber.

Its pathetic when you decide to compare another brand, with pistols in two extremely different price point areas.

[nastytrigger]

What exactly does the beavertail do?

Original 1911, I keep saying this..., had a spur hammer and no beavertail. Some with big hands would get bit by the spur hammer during shooting (one of the reasons I went with the Loaded over Mil Spec, since Mil Spec has spur and Loaded has beavertail). Beavertail is a longer grip safety with no hammer bite. Also, beavertails have a 'memory pad' to aid in disengaging the grip safety to fire.

A Mil Spec can be fitted with a beavertail, or different hammer, if 'hammer bite" occurs. Cost would be around $150 (that's what Springfield Custom charges).

Oh, I think you asked about Springfield's services. If you have a problem, or want custom work, you can send it to Springfield HQ in Geneseo, IL. Great service. I had to send my Loaded back to get the tritium vial put back in after it flew out. They paid shipping and I had it back within a week.

[thecableguy]

Bump all this nonsense take that money go to this website migunslingers.com pick the one you want put the money you have down and use his 12 month layaway program. Problem solved. :supergrin:

[alwaysshootin]

The deal is I'm pretty much getting paid $850

The Springfield Mil-spec seemed nice, what is the advantage of the longer trigger on the enhanced models? What exactly does the beavertail do?

The Mil-Spec is a nice 1911, hands down, and a good buy for the price. The advantage of the longer trigger, for me, is it allows my trigger finger to set in the middle of my front pad on my trigger finger. Versus, in the first index between pads on the shorter trigger. That allows me to shoot more accurately, and have a better feel for the trigger.

If you look at almost all the pictures of the 1911's in this post, they have the high rise beaver tail. That allows your shooting hand to get higher on the grip of the 1911. More so than you would on a Mil-Spec in it's original configuration. Getting higher on the grip gives you less muzzle flip, quicker follow up shots, and less perceived recoil, and along with the longer trigger, should give you a better feeling more accurate shooting firearm. Win/win as far as I see it.

The stainless Kimber Custom II will probably run you about a hundred bucks more than the regular Custom II.

[SpringerTGO]

'

Cool story man, my kimber is 4 years old now, still working, it did have a small issue when I got it, and was remedied quickly.

Plenty of others here who have great working kimbers, or those who were well taken care of.

Its understandable if you want to let someone know that you had a bad experience.

Its annoying when you keep at it repetitively, insisting thats whats going to happen to anyone buying a kimber.

Its pathetic when you decide to compare another brand, with pistols in two extremely different price point areas.

4 years old and still working is supposed to mean something? On a Glock site at that? And after one minor problem.
I've owned all kinds of handguns over the past 38 years, but never felt the need to rave about one that worked.

If anything's pathetic, it's the need to brag about a gun that's worked for 4 years, after being repaired at that. I have a 100 year old Lugar that is more reliable than my Kimber was.

[alwaysshootin]

4 years old and still working is supposed to mean something? On a Glock site at that? And after one minor problem.
I've owned all kinds of handguns over the past 38 years, but never felt the need to rave about one that worked.

If anything's pathetic, it's the need to brag about a gun that's worked for 4 years, after being repaired at that. I have a 100 year old Lugar that is more reliable than my Kimber was.

How to make friends, and influence people!

Are you done yet? 15 posts so far, and half are either bashing someone, or something!:upeyes:

[Z28ricer]

4 years old and still working is supposed to mean something? On a Glock site at that? And after one minor problem.
I've owned all kinds of handguns over the past 38 years, but never felt the need to rave about one that worked.

If anything's pathetic, it's the need to brag about a gun that's worked for 4 years, after being repaired at that. I have a 100 year old Lugar that is more reliable than my Kimber was.

Oh, noes, the slide stop sometimes was bumping slide locked on a non empty mag, guess what smart guy, this issue has happened to plenty of springfields, kimbers, colts, and even the higher end stuff.

I wasnt rejoicing that it still works, its no surprise, the point is that plenty of people have them working just fine, and you're repetitive preaching that anyone buying a kimber will get a lemon, is annoying.

Oh and look, you didnt catch that point the first time around, didnt see that coming.

[nathanours]

Bump all this nonsense take that money go to this website migunslingers.com pick the one you want put the money you have down and use his 12 month layaway program. Problem solved. :supergrin:

I never buy anything I cannot afford up front or don't have the money for. I do not owe a cent to anyone and it's a good feeling.

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

[nastytrigger]

I never buy anything I cannot afford up front or don't have the money for. I do not owe a cent to anyone and it's a good feeling.

Amen!

I'm debt free and proud of it too!

[nathanours]

So I went to the local Bass Pro today and checked out a Kimber Custom II. They only had one and it was selling for $860. Is that what they normally go for? I really wasn't that impressed with it, the slide to frame fit wasn't too good, and it was a little wobbly and rough racking the slide. I was much more impressed with the Springfields I saw yesterday. Is this typical Kimber, or should I try to look at a different one?

[GeorgiaRedfish]

So I went to the local Bass Pro today and checked out a Kimber Custom II. They only had one and it was selling for $860. Is that what they normally go for? I really wasn't that impressed with it, the slide to frame fit wasn't too good, and it was a little wobbly and rough racking the slide. I was much more impressed with the Springfields I saw yesterday. Is this typical Kimber, or should I try to look at a different one?

I would always choose Springfield over Kimber.

[Z28ricer]

Frame/Slide fit of my Kimber, please disregard the little surface rust, I didnt have anything to get at it, and had only quickly gone over it after being away from it for 9mths

http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff177/Z28ricer/Guns/DSCN0900.jpg

I've seen plenty of springfields that are worse, i'm sure with either manufacturer you're going to see them vary.

[nathanours]

Frame/Slide fit of my Kimber, please disregard the little surface rust, I didnt have anything to get at it, and had only quickly gone over it after being away from it for 9mths

http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff177/Z28ricer/Guns/DSCN0900.jpg

I've seen plenty of springfields that are worse, i'm sure with either manufacturer you're going to see them vary.

That does look excellent, at least to my novice perception. The new Kimber in the store actually had tiny rust spots on the barrel...

[bac1023]

I would always choose Springfield over Kimber.

I would say so now that the new Range Officer is out. Before that, I would take a Custom II over a Loaded in the sub $1000 price range.

[bear72]

I know its the low end, but for under 1000$ The RIA is hard to beat, especially for a first 1911.You can spend the extra money on night sights, custom trigger, new finish, black double diamond grips, extra mags and alot of ammo and still be under budjet. :whistling:

[nathanours]

Hey just out of curiosity, are all the 1911s we've been discussing +p rated?

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[thug23]

Was reading thru all the pages here and can't beleive nobody has suggested a S&W 1911. Does S&W suk that bad compared to the other companies or is it that nobody thinks about them for whatever reason?

[nathanours]

Finally picked one up, here ya'll go"

http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=17800531#post17800531

[bac1023]

Finally picked one up, here ya'll go"

http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=17800531#post17800531

You made a good choice. :thumbsup:

[nastytrigger]

Finally picked one up, here ya'll go"

http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=17800531#post17800531

Yay!


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