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9L82
08-12-2011, 20:07
One of my detectives was involved in a shooting yesterday, bad guy tried to run him over and my guy shot him ( 3 for 3..not bad shooting).

If you supervisors get a chance, try to get some training in officer involved shootings (not the technical investigation part, but the part about taking care of your officer)

I got there and found him sitting in a police cruiser shaking. I noticed he had been disarmed so I gave him my weapon. The things I was taught came back to me right away. I got him out of the area, back to our police station and had his wife come up. We made sure he got an FOP rep and a lawyer right away and we fed him.

I caused a little stir when I refused to allow the detectives to speak to him until today (another agency is investigating). I wanted him to get some sleep and clear his mind. He told me this morning that he remembered things today that he didn't yesterday. Had they interviewed him yesterday, he would look like a liar (this is huge, they have to be allowed to rest and collect their thoughts, the media and public will have to wait)

Two other involved officers were from another jurisdiction. They were placed in an interrogation room by their bosses and left alone for about an hour, that really bothered them and they felt like suspects.

We spoke today and he told me that he felt protected and that it made things much easier and less stressful.

As supervisors, we all know the technical work required to do the job, I think we can really help our people by understanding how to help them when their lives are turned upside down.

4949shooter
08-12-2011, 20:18
Nice job. As a potential defendant he shouldn't be compelled to speak without an attorney present, and when the time is right.

Patchman
08-12-2011, 20:22
One of my detectives was involved in a shooting yesterday, bad guy tried to run him over and my guy shot him ( 3 for 3..not bad shooting).

If you supervisors get a chance, try to get some training in officer involved shootings (not the technical investigation part, but the part about taking care of your officer)

I got there and found him sitting in a police cruiser shaking. I noticed he had been disarmed so I gave him my weapon. The things I was taught came back to me right away. I got him out of the area, back to our police station and had his wife come up. We made sure he got an FOP rep and a lawyer right away and we fed him.

I caused a little stir when I refused to allow the detectives to speak to him until today (another agency is investigating). I wanted him to get some sleep and clear his mind. He told me this morning that he remembered things today that he didn't yesterday. Had they interviewed him yesterday, he would look like a liar (this is huge, they have to be allowed to rest and collect their thoughts, the media and public will have to wait)

Two other involved officers were from another jurisdiction. They were placed in an interrogation room by their bosses and left alone for about an hour, that really bothered them and they felt like suspects.

We spoke today and he told me that he felt protected and that it made things much easier and less stressful.

As supervisors, we all know the technical work required to do the job, I think we can really help our people by understanding how to help them when their lives are turned upside down.

God bless you.

Where I'm at, the on-the-scene supervisor would (should) immediately send the LEO(s) to the hospital to be checked out by MDs (mental and physical).

And the union would immediately send a rep or atty to the LEO at the ER.

I hate how now-a-days, the LEO in a shooting encounter is presumed guilty (by his/her own agency) until proven innocent.

Hack
08-12-2011, 20:31
One of my detectives was involved in a shooting yesterday, bad guy tried to run him over and my guy shot him ( 3 for 3..not bad shooting).

If you supervisors get a chance, try to get some training in officer involved shootings (not the technical investigation part, but the part about taking care of your officer)

I got there and found him sitting in a police cruiser shaking. I noticed he had been disarmed so I gave him my weapon. The things I was taught came back to me right away. I got him out of the area, back to our police station and had his wife come up. We made sure he got an FOP rep and a lawyer right away and we fed him.

I caused a little stir when I refused to allow the detectives to speak to him until today (another agency is investigating). I wanted him to get some sleep and clear his mind. He told me this morning that he remembered things today that he didn't yesterday. Had they interviewed him yesterday, he would look like a liar (this is huge, they have to be allowed to rest and collect their thoughts, the media and public will have to wait)

Two other involved officers were from another jurisdiction. They were placed in an interrogation room by their bosses and left alone for about an hour, that really bothered them and they felt like suspects.

We spoke today and he told me that he felt protected and that it made things much easier and less stressful.

As supervisors, we all know the technical work required to do the job, I think we can really help our people by understanding how to help them when their lives are turned upside down.

I'm glad that you took care of him. It's hard enough to deal with, and to have an investigator latching on to the officer involved before he is checked out by medical just adds to his burden.

trdvet
08-12-2011, 20:46
Good for you, it says a lot about what kind of supervisor you are. Great morale boost and confidence builder when a supervisor looks after his people.

9L82
08-12-2011, 20:49
I didn't think about a medical check-up...makes a lot of sense. I was hoping to get some new ideas...thanks guys

Vigilant
08-12-2011, 21:29
Maybe it's a dumb question, but shouldn't there be some formal SOP on the books for dealing with the aftermath of an OIS?

Now I'm curious. Time to dig into it, and see what our SOP says, if anything. CO or copper either one, it would sure help to know in advance how this would be handled.

CAcop
08-12-2011, 21:43
What you did was pretty much what we do except they dont get their gun taken away until we get back to the station. Usually another officer stays with them at all times until he goes home.

MeefZah
08-12-2011, 22:00
Glad your guy is okay.

Newcop761
08-13-2011, 00:40
9L82: Thanks for taking care of your guy. I'm glad he's OK.

Force Science Institute's latest article addresses changes in three departments OIS protocols. It's worth a read.

Recent Developments in post-OIS Procedures: Tales of 3 Cities

http://fdsclocal5016.blogspot.com/2011/08/force-science-news-transmission-183.html

Kahr_Glockman
08-13-2011, 05:50
The Linkee no workee.

3Speedyfish3
08-13-2011, 06:38
I was Team Leader for a SWAT Op back in '04 when we had an OIS during a buy-bust. I started trying to run the scene with SWAT, the Narcs, and Patrol, when a more seasoned sergeant came up and told me to see to my men and let someone else handle the rest of the incident.

It was good advice that I haven't forgotten.

9L82
08-13-2011, 08:46
Newcop, Force Science actually hosted the training, it was great. The instructor was an ex-FBI agent who was in the Miami shootout in the 70's. Great insight. We are changing policy to make it 48hrs and at a location the officer wants.

Newcop761
08-13-2011, 11:07
Here is the link.
http://fdsclocal5016.blogspot.com/2011/08/force-science-news-transmission-183.html

cwr
08-13-2011, 11:17
I was involved in a shooting on Wednesday (08-10) involving similar circumstances. My partner's IA interview is Tuesday (08-16) and mine is Wednesday (08-17). I am also half of my agency's critical incident stress team. If your guy wants or needs to talk to someone, send me a message and we'll figure out a way to hook up.

9L82
08-13-2011, 11:21
I was involved in a shooting on Wednesday (08-10) involving similar circumstances. My partner's IA interview is Tuesday (08-16) and mine is Wednesday (08-17). I am also half of my agency's critical incident stress team. If your guy wants or needs to talk to someone, send me a message and we'll figure out a way to hook up.

I appreciate that, thank you. I hope your doing ok, I now know that it is a pretty intense event.

cwr
08-13-2011, 12:20
I'm doing ok - thanks. Unfortunately this wasn't my first shooting. Not that it is a "routine" thing for me but so far my reaction has been like it was routine. That part has me wondering....

Trigger Finger
08-13-2011, 17:06
Nice job. As a potential defendant he shouldn't be compelled to speak without an attorney present, and when the time is right.


Actually as far as I'm aware, being an on duty police officer, you can be compelled to speak and at least give a preliminary statement in an environment where statements cannot be used for criminal prosecution, as soon as the incident occurs!!!

But it is good that someone like you is looking after the involved officers. It also helps to have all supervisors proficient in dealing with officers involved, not just the shooters. Our OIS unit is very good at this but it might take an hour for them to respond.

Patchman
08-13-2011, 18:35
Actually as far as I'm aware, being an on duty police officer, you can be compelled to speak and at least give a preliminary statement in an environment where statements cannot be used for criminal prosecution, as soon as the incident occurs!!!


Yes, this flows from the 5th Amendment, where a person (Yes, even a LEO is afforded this protection!) cannot be compelled to incriminate his/herself. So if your agency compels you to make a statement (where if you refuse, you'd be suspended, fired, etc...) then your 5th Amendment is being violated. So the statements you were compelled to make are not admissible in a criminal court of law (just like evidence from the poisonous tree, etc...).

Real world application? I've heard of stories where a LEO was compelled to speak with IA investigators for "X" allegation (and refusal to answer would mean suspension or firing), and the LEO used the opportunity to also admit to "Y" and "Z" acts. Under the right circumstances, that LEO became immune to criminal prosecution for the "Y" and "Z" acts.

Kahr_Glockman
08-13-2011, 19:31
An LEO can be compelled to give a statement after a shooting. The difference is that if compelled the statement must given along with a Garrity Warning, stating that you were compelled under threat of discipline to give a statement. This statement will protect the officer's statement from being used in a criminal proceeding.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garrity_warning

trifecta
08-14-2011, 00:13
An LEO can be compelled to give a statement after a shooting. The difference is that if compelled the statement must given along with a Garrity Warning, stating that you were compelled under threat of discipline to give a statement. This statement will protect the officer's statement from being used in a criminal proceeding.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garrity_warning

Exactly.

cwr
08-14-2011, 09:31
The posts about the on scene statement are correct. Mine last week to the Sgt. consisted of, "the ***** tried to kill me so I shot her" and nothing else. It worked for him and it worked for me. Later that night, my CID Sgt asked to speak with me concerning the criminal investigation as he was drawing up the warrants with the SA's office. With my reps in the room, we spoke about the incident up to the point I fired and he stopped just before that point - all he needed for the paperwork. Now Wednesday I have my IA scheduled and my union provided attorney will be there with me for that one. My partner's is scheduled for Tuesday.

In the past with me it has been similar - a 3 "interview" type process with the first being very brief just so whoever is in charge at the scene can operationally move forward with picking up the pieces. I remember the one for my first shooting many years ago was, "he tried to draw down on me so I shot him before he could". Short, sweet and to the point.