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DonGlock26
08-13-2011, 19:39
Pregnant Pacifica woman killed by family pit bull

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/08/11/BAK21KMFEB.DTL#ixzz1UxlzrAch


http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/08/11/BAK21KMFEB.DTL


:steamed:

Keoking
08-13-2011, 20:53
One night I went to bed much later than my wife, and scared her when I came in the bedroom door. Our pit mix nearly attacked me to defend her. I guess I should of said 'her pit mix.' That dog likes me ok but would go to hell and back for the wife.
In situations where you don't abuse them, I've always been told that pits are the most loyal dog there is. I have to wonder what sparked the attack on that poor woman. Something to do with her being pregnant? Dogs are funny about things like that sometimes, huh?

AA#5
08-13-2011, 21:03
It's quite obvious that pit bulls can attack without a reason (except one that's known only to them).

Knowing that (as we all do), anyone who chooses to own one over all the other available breeds without that reputation, is risking a lifetime of well-deserved guilt & anguish if that occurs.

The remarks frequently heard after such an attack "I don't understand it....he's always been nice to everyone.....he plays with all the neighborhood children....he's not an attack dog.....he's never been abused...." certainly bear that out.

It is mind boggling how many here will make all kinds of nonsensical excuses for pitbulls - "It's the owners, not the dogs.....it's how he was raised....etc.

Dukeboy01
08-13-2011, 21:32
:popcorn:

Here we go! Another thread involving slanderous liars telling lies against the Dog Breed of Peace, may Allah's favor shine upon them.

Sweeeeeet.

dano1427
08-14-2011, 01:25
The way it's being spun locally by the pro-pit types is that the attacking dog (there were two in the house) was an unneutered male, so that must have been the issue, because they were "good" dogs who would never harm anyone...as usual...

PROSOUTH
08-14-2011, 08:09
:popcorn:

Here we go! Another thread involving slanderous liars telling lies against the Dog Breed of Peace, may Allah's favor shine upon them.

Sweeeeeet.

You beat me to it Dukeboy

Over 90% of the dog calls I get in my county for a visious dog is for the Dog of Peace, and everytime the owner gives me the same ol' lines......

AA#5; The remarks frequently heard after such an attack "I don't understand it....he's always been nice to everyone.....he plays with all the neighborhood children....he's not an attack dog.....he's never been abused...." certainly bear that out.


:faint:

clancy
08-14-2011, 17:14
A few years ago I worked with a guy whose young daughter was mauled by their Pitbull. Again, the dog was well cared for, never abused, and "loved everybody". The girl got up to pick up the tv remote from the floor and the dog pitched into her. I don't remember how may stitches it took to close the wounds, but there were lots.

His attitude was , "hey, it's a pit, these things happen." I would have shot the dog without a second thought. It wasn't until after the 3rd or 4th attack on his kids and CPS finally stepping in and giving the guy the choice of the dog or his kids did he finally get rid of the dog.

Patchman
08-14-2011, 17:21
It wasn't until after the 3rd or 4th attack on his kids and CPS finally stepping in and giving the guy the choice of the dog or his kids did he finally get rid of the dog.

My sympathies to the kids.

dougader
08-14-2011, 18:31
This is the part I don't get.... how in the heck do parents allow their kids to be attacked more than once by the family dog? One nip at my kids and the dog would be buried in the back field. And NEVER leave a child alone with a dog. NEVER.

Sharkey
08-14-2011, 21:26
Our female pit mixes have been anything but vicious. They are/were loyal to a tee.

No excuses, a pit isn't for everyone. You do have to be a dominant alpha and not let the dog have control. If you can't do that, a pit is not for you.

Never had a male dog and never will. Maybe it was an issue? Who knows.

Our current pit is 2YOA but you can bet if we ever get another dog it will be a rescued pit. The fact that cops answer a lot of dog calls involving pits is no surprise when a certain community fights them and sees them as a status symbol.

Prayers to the poor guy who has to live with this.

razdog76
08-14-2011, 22:21
You do have to be a dominant alpha and not let the dog have control. If you can't do that, a pit is not for you.

Ding, Ding!

I have not been sent to a dog bite involving any of the dog breeds known as a pit bull, but I have gone to a variety of dog bite calls with other dominant dogs such as GSD, Rottweiler, and most recently a Boxer which bit a plumber on the arm, puncturing a vessel.

Socialization, training, and establishing the pack order early is paramount for ownership of any of these dogs, just like having kids.

AA#5
08-14-2011, 22:35
A few years ago I worked with a guy whose young daughter was mauled by their Pitbull. Again, the dog was well cared for, never abused, and "loved everybody". The girl got up to pick up the tv remote from the floor and the dog pitched into her. I don't remember how may stitches it took to close the wounds, but there were lots.

His attitude was , "hey, it's a pit, these things happen." I would have shot the dog without a second thought. It wasn't until after the 3rd or 4th attack on his kids and CPS finally stepping in and giving the guy the choice of the dog or his kids did he finally get rid of the dog.

Should have gotten rid of the "father."

countsk
08-14-2011, 22:47
Get a Lab for the kids and a G19 (wife's nightstand) and a 12 gauge (my nightstand) for uninvited guests.

Next post.

dano1427
08-15-2011, 01:05
Our female pit mixes have been anything but vicious. They are/were loyal to a tee.

No excuses, a pit isn't for everyone. You do have to be a dominant alpha and not let the dog have control. If you can't do that, a pit is not for you.

Never had a male dog and never will. Maybe it was an issue? Who knows.

Our current pit is 2YOA but you can bet if we ever get another dog it will be a rescued pit. The fact that cops answer a lot of dog calls involving pits is no surprise when a certain community fights them and sees them as a status symbol.

Prayers to the poor guy who has to live with this.


And what happens when the Pit decides to change the pack order? Or decides to eliminate its closest rival in the family pack? It happens with all breeds, however, through various types of behavior, not the extreme aggression seen with these dogs. The combination of Molosser and Terrier based dogs add up to a screwy, unpredictable dog.

The pro-Pit crowd has never been able to answer the question as to why there are the stories of the perfect family dog just "snapping" and maiming or killing a family member. The Pacifica, Ca story is a great example. Everyone interviewed has stated that they were wonderful animals, yet one of these great and wonderful animals killed.

Statistically, origin-Pits in 2010 accounted for 23 out of 33 canine caused deaths, so far in 2011, 7 out of 11 canine deaths were from canines of Pit origin. Of the conclusions, it's either bad owners, the breed, or a combination of both.

Pro-Pit people say they are the best dogs, but can't explain away the stats. Or is it really bad owners? Then, what does that say about the pro-pit contingent?

Newcop761
08-15-2011, 01:49
The only vicious animal calls I responded to involved Pitbulls.

Moved north and my next door neighbor's pitt bit the 11 year old girl next to them on the face. Unprovoked. 22 stitches to close her face up.

Sharkey
08-15-2011, 07:55
And what happens when the Pit decides to change the pack order? Or decides to eliminate its closest rival in the family pack? It happens with all breeds, however, through various types of behavior, not the extreme aggression seen with these dogs. The combination of Molosser and Terrier based dogs add up to a screwy, unpredictable dog.

Mine never had, but the simple answer is YOU reestablish pack order. Geez, haven't you watched Cesar? A few decades ago, the pit bull WAS the poster child dog for the U.S. Why is that if they are so vicious?

The pro-Pit crowd has never been able to answer the question as to why there are the stories of the perfect family dog just "snapping" and maiming or killing a family member. The Pacifica, Ca story is a great example. Everyone interviewed has stated that they were wonderful animals, yet one of these great and wonderful animals killed.

You can say that about humans as well.

Statistically, origin-Pits in 2010 accounted for 23 out of 33 canine caused deaths, so far in 2011, 7 out of 11 canine deaths were from canines of Pit origin. Of the conclusions, it's either bad owners, the breed, or a combination of both.

Sure they account for the deaths because their bite is so strong BUT you left out that they don't account for the dog breed that has the highest # of bites

Pro-Pit people say they are the best dogs, but can't explain away the stats. Or is it really bad owners? Then, what does that say about the pro-pit contingent?

You're gonna knock the people now too? The ones who went in to save Vick's dogs or rescue untold # of abused dogs? Bravo.

collim1
08-15-2011, 08:12
Get a Lab for the kids and a G19 (wife's nightstand) and a 12 gauge (my nightstand) for uninvited guests.

Next post.

Labs bite alot of people each year. It can happen with any dog.

Merkavaboy
08-15-2011, 08:54
When I cruise the news websites I will keep copies of interesting articles I come across. This includes dog attacks. I have maybe 30 different articles from across the U.S. regarding dog attacks. All of these dog attack articles I have start out: 3 year old mauled to death, 8 month old mauled to death, elderly man seriously mauled, elderly woman mauled to death by pet dogs, infant's testicles chewed off by family dog, 6 year old girl mauled to death by friend's family dog, 17 year old mauled by 3 dogs in parking lot almost killed, etc... Of those articles, 1 dog was a Rotweiller and the rest are all pit bulls.

It's very easy to see the pattern here. Pit Bull lovers can make all the excuses they want and turn a blind eye to the truth, but the evidence is overwhelming against the breed.

PuroMexicano
08-15-2011, 09:57
Lots of people swear by this dogs. I wouldn't trust one 50 feet from my kids, not even with a loaded gun in my hand pointed to it's thick skull.

Miniature breeds for me, thanks, at least their bite is small as them and are easily controllable in a SHTF situation (you can kill them with one hand :whistling:).

PuroMexicano
08-15-2011, 10:00
Labs bite alot of people each year. It can happen with any dog.

A coulple of expert trainers have told me that Lab bites are mostly out of playing, not attacking. Their behavior is on the hiperactive side and tend to play without controlling their strength.

As said above, so I've been told, have no idea if true.

trifecta
08-15-2011, 12:40
You're gonna knock the people now too? The ones who went in to save Vick's dogs or rescue untold # of abused dogs? Bravo.

I think it is great there are people willing to take in rescue dogs.

Redefining the pack order after it bites your kid is a little late.

You don't dispute that pits kill more people than all other breed combined, but take issue that maybe they don't have the most overall bites. That's nice, but maybe horse flies bite more people than sharks too. Guess which one I'm more worried about.

Any breed may bite. Have whatever dog you want. Just be honest with yourself about the risk. Getting bit by a Yorkie isn't the same thing as being bit by a Pit.

dano1427
08-15-2011, 15:14
In Pacifica, the necropsy results indicate that the male, 125Lb pit, was responsible (hair, blood and tissue samples taken from its mouth were from the victim), and the victim's cause of death was blood loss.

Last I looked, Labs were the number one biter, but also the most popular dog breed in the U.S. Number of deaths caused by Labs: 1.

Sharkey
08-15-2011, 18:20
You don't dispute that pits kill more people than all other breed combined, but take issue that maybe they don't have the most overall bites. That's nice, but maybe horse flies bite more people than sharks too. Guess which one I'm more worried about.

Any breed may bite. Have whatever dog you want. Just be honest with yourself about the risk. Getting bit by a Yorkie isn't the same thing as being bit by a Pit.

Your right, I don't dispute pits kill people than other breeds. Folks just leave out stats sometimes. Ok, you are worried about pit bites, you're smart enough to choose a yorkie and not a pit.

How do you know I'm not honest about the risk I take whether it be owning a pit, riding a cycle, or being a cop? If I thought I was in danger, I wouldn't get a second one.

It seems some are quick to read a news story and make all kind of assumptions with no first hand knowledge yet you'll are the same ones that get upset when the public monday morning quarterbacks a cop shooting?

Recurve
08-15-2011, 18:31
I find it ironic that so many people here buy into the media pitbull bype. I didn't figure this crowd for that type of thing. Sure pitbulls attack other dogs and humans. My buddy's golden retriever does, too.

I won't defend every pitbull, but I don't think a breed extinction is in order, either.

Fo those stating "facts" and "statistics," I'd like to know just how many so called "pitbulls" are actually American Pitbull Terriers. There are about 15 breeds of dog often confused and misrepresented as pitbulls. There are countless other mixed breeds that have stocky builds or block heads that people refer to pitbulls.

It used to be Rottweilers, then Dobies, now Pits....blah, blah, blah. It's a different dog every decade that the media turns into a monster.

That being said, if a dog bites...shoot it. End of story. Doesn't matter what breed.

Recurve
08-15-2011, 18:43
Odds of being attacked by a pitbull: 1 in 145,000,000

Odds of being struck by lightning: 1 in 3,000

stats pulled from Nat Geo and Pitbull registry. Of course, there could be some skewed info, but still.....a HUGE discrepancy

clancy
08-15-2011, 19:16
One thing many people seem to forget is what the dog was originally bred to do, and it damned sure wasn't bred to be a family pet.

collim1
08-15-2011, 19:17
A coulple of expert trainers have told me that Lab bites are mostly out of playing, not attacking. Their behavior is on the hiperactive side and tend to play without controlling their strength.

As said above, so I've been told, have no idea if true.

I believe it, but I am more weary of strange Labs and Goldens than other any breed out there.

Pits and GSD's almost always give some warning signs, whether the victim saw them or not. Any Lab bites I have worked seemed to come with no warning.

Part of the job is to approach strange dogs in everyday situations. I can usually tell if I will have a problem with a dog when I approach them.

Patchman
08-15-2011, 19:28
I've been told that one should have the night stick ready when approaching a dog. If the dog charges, the idea is to stick the stick down the dog's mouth/throat. If you don't have a stick, and they bite/grab onto your arm, do the same with your arm. The way their teeth are designed, you can't pull your arm out. So instead, stick your arm down their throat as far as you possibly can.

I also read somewhere that the British trained to disarm attack dogs by having one soldier act as bait and have the dog attack him. While the dog is busy, a second soldier come from behind the dog and gut it from chest to tail.

I have no first hand experience with either technique.

WarCry
08-15-2011, 20:22
I find it ironic that so many people here buy into the media pitbull bype. I didn't figure this crowd for that type of thing. Sure pitbulls attack other dogs and humans. My buddy's golden retriever does, too.

I won't defend every pitbull, but I don't think a breed extinction is in order, either.

Fo those stating "facts" and "statistics," I'd like to know just how many so called "pitbulls" are actually American Pitbull Terriers. There are about 15 breeds of dog often confused and misrepresented as pitbulls. There are countless other mixed breeds that have stocky builds or block heads that people refer to pitbulls.

If it's funny for guns:
http://www.redgallows.com/guns.jpg

Why not.....
http://www.redgallows.com/dogs.jpg

Arc Angel
08-15-2011, 20:32
:crying: Sad news, indeed!

This is a good reminder that ALL DOGS require proper socialization and regular obedience training. An unsocialized dog is a dangerous dog. Too many neophyte dog owners have this pronounced tendency to treat their dogs as if they were other people - They're not!

These things said, my Grandfather, who was a prominent county sheriff, used Pit Bulldogs to catch criminals; and, I OWE MY LIFE TO A PAIR OF PIT BULLDOGS who saved me from unquestionable harm during a sudden 1990 home invasion - The guy really picked the wrong house! What I will never understand is how he missed the large, 'Beware of Dog' sign posted on the front of the porch?

(I've got one of those hero-Pitbulls, 'relatives' sleeping behind me as I type this reply.) :)



ADDED: WarCry, that picture you posted is absolutely one of the most amusing things I've ever seen on the internet! Very good! :thumbsup:

Sharkey
08-15-2011, 20:42
If it's funny for guns:
http://www.redgallows.com/guns.jpg

Why not.....
http://www.redgallows.com/dogs.jpg



THAT was funny! :rofl:

Did you hear about the Chihuahua that killed a pit bull?



wait for it.....................................................................




The pit bull choked on it! :supergrin:

Sharkey
08-15-2011, 20:49
One thing many people seem to forget is what the dog was originally bred to do, and it damned sure wasn't bred to be a family pet.

That is so weird since the RCA dog was a pit, Petey the pit bull was on the Lil' Rascals, Helen Keller owned one, 2 presidents: Wilson and Roosevelt owned one and 2 hotties: Jessica Alba and Jessica Biel own one.

Strange indeed. I think our cats are more vicious than our pit. She just came from some friends with 4 dogs who pet sitted for us. She has cuts all over her from one dog being mean to her.

We do lock the bed room doors at night and I keep the 870 by the bed just in case................................ of a home invasion and she cowers in the corner from intruders. Pits are notoriously bad guard dogs.

Arc Angel
08-15-2011, 21:08
That is so weird since the RCA dog was a pit, Petey the pit bull was on the Lil' Rascals, Helen Keller owned one, 2 presidents: Wilson and Roosevelt owned one and 2 hotties: Jessica Alba and Jessica Biel own one.

Strange indeed. I think our cats are more vicious than our pit. She just came from some friends with 4 dogs who pet sitted for us. She has cuts all over her from one dog being mean to her.

We do lock the bed room doors at night and I keep the 870 by the bed just in case................................ of a home invasion and she cowers in the corner from intruders. Pits are notoriously bad guard dogs.

I'm absolutely positive that our Dachshund is more aggressive than our Pit Bulldog - Really! You can also add the Rockefeller family to your list of Pitbull owners. I've seen old photographs of the Rockefeller children gathered together in a group with a large Pit Bulldog lying at their feet.

(Pit Bulldogs really do make lousy guard dogs. They've got way too much self-confidence! That's, 'Why' we keep a small Dachshund as an, 'alarm dog' too. In fact, we've even got a large male tomcat who absolutely hates strangers, and is even better than the Dachshund at alarming on anyone who tries to approach the house.)

GPalmer
08-15-2011, 23:28
Odds of being attacked by a pitbull: 1 in 145,000,000
There are a bit over 300 million folks in the US. If that stat were accurate and it pertains to your chances for a given year, there would be a bit over 2 pit bull attacks a year in the United States. Does that strike you as accurate? Let's suppose it were your chances of being attacked in any given day. that would be 365 times as high, or say 800 a year. In a couple minutes of searching, I found that number appears to be way lower than the number of attacks actually happening. Honestly, I don't care enough about the topic in question to bother looking up the details any further.

Now, so far as lightning... According to the National Weather Service (http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_are_the_odds_of_being_struck_by_lightning), the odds are 1 in 700,000 you will be struck in any particular year.

It doesn't say good things for your case when you have to make up stuff like that to buttress your position. (And that wasn't directed at you, that's directed at whoever put up the page you quoted from).

Roering
08-16-2011, 01:15
Pit Bulls have been trained and bred to fight since the Romans had an empire. You can't just "train" that out of them in a couple hundred years.

G27Chief
08-16-2011, 03:17
Sad story, death from a family pet is tragic from anyone.......the Boston Terrier's over the past 45 years have never caused an issue but they could

Recurve
08-16-2011, 07:59
There are a bit over 300 million folks in the US. If that stat were accurate and it pertains to your chances for a given year, there would be a bit over 2 pit bull attacks a year in the United States. Does that strike you as accurate? Let's suppose it were your chances of being attacked in any given day. that would be 365 times as high, or say 800 a year. In a couple minutes of searching, I found that number appears to be way lower than the number of attacks actually happening. Honestly, I don't care enough about the topic in question to bother looking up the details any further.

Now, so far as lightning... According to the National Weather Service (http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_are_the_odds_of_being_struck_by_lightning), the odds are 1 in 700,000 you will be struck in any particular year.

It doesn't say good things for your case when you have to make up stuff like that to buttress your position. (And that wasn't directed at you, that's directed at whoever put up the page you quoted from).


I assume the stat was for the world....so US population wouldn't directly apply

As for the lightning, I saw the stat you mention which was in a given year. I used a stat referencing a lifetime....just assumed that was more accurate.

Anyway, just goes to show that stats can be twisted, manipulated, or presented pretty easily even when unintentional.

PROSOUTH
08-16-2011, 21:20
Just watched Chanel 4 News, WKRN Nashville News @10 PM

A two year old little boy from Fayetteville TN was mauled by a family pet Pit Bull today and Life Flighted to a Huntsville AL hospital for treatment

Come on guys if it walks like a Duck, quacks like a Duck and Mauls Kids it must be a Pit Bull TERRORIST

The Dog of Peace has struck again......................

I wonder if this little boy's Daddy can justify to himself and / or especially this child's Mother that this didn't happen to their baby because he made a poor choice of a pet that just happened to be a Pit Bull ?

I'd hate to have to live with this if it had happened to a member of my family.:crying:

:faint:

AA#5
08-16-2011, 21:31
Just watched Chanel 4 News, WKRN Nashville News @10 PM

A two year old little boy from Fayetteville TN was mauled by a family pet Pit Bull today and Life Flighted to a Huntsville AL hospital for treatment

Come on guys if it walks like a Duck, quacks like a Duck and Mauls Kids it must be a Pit Bull TERRORIST

The Dog of Peace has struck again......................

I wonder if this little boy's Daddy can justify to himself and / or especially this child's Mother that this didn't happen to their baby because he made a poor choice of a pet that just happened to be a Pit Bull ?

I'd hate to have to live with this if it had happened to a member of my family.:crying:


:faint:


Parents who are brain dead enough to allow a pit bull in their house with their children will find a way to blame the child for the attack or say something like "That plane that flew overhead scared him.....he's a good dog...he was just scared of the vacuum cleaner.....the kid must have teased him or pulled his tail...."

GPalmer
08-16-2011, 23:06
I assume the stat was for the world....so US population wouldn't directly apply

As for the lightning, I saw the stat you mention which was in a given year. I used a stat referencing a lifetime....just assumed that was more accurate.

Anyway, just goes to show that stats can be twisted, manipulated, or presented pretty easily even when unintentional.

Of course the US population is completely applicable. If the odds of you being attacked are 1 in 145,000,000 per year then if you have 145,000,000 people, then the chances are that 1 person would be attacked. Doesn't matter if the people are American, Chinese or French, so long as their odds of attack are the same. If you have 290,000,000 people then the odds are that 2 people will be attacked.

One of the things that people who want to twist statistics around tend to do is use different scales for the figures they are comparing. These could be units of time or units of volume or count of number of trials. What you do have to keep the same is the time period over which you are considering the likelihood of a particular happening occurring. A 1 in 7000 chance of having something happen to you in a 70 year lifespan is a 1 in (7000 * 70) = 1 in 490,000 chance of it happening to you in a given year, or a 1 in (7000 * 70 * 12) = 1 in 5,880,000 chance of it happening in a given month. All are valid ways to state the statistic but people wanting to distort reality drop the unit of measure from their figures.

Roering
08-17-2011, 00:44
I've been told that one should have the night stick ready when approaching a dog. If the dog charges, the idea is to stick the stick down the dog's mouth/throat. If you don't have a stick, and they bite/grab onto your arm, do the same with your arm. The way their teeth are designed, you can't pull your arm out. So instead, stick your arm down their throat as far as you possibly can.

I also read somewhere that the British trained to disarm attack dogs by having one soldier act as bait and have the dog attack him. While the dog is busy, a second soldier come from behind the dog and gut it from chest to tail.

I have no first hand experience with either technique.

That's old school. I'd go for the taser.....glock if it's a Pit Bull.

Sharkey
08-17-2011, 07:14
Just watched Chanel 4 News, WKRN Nashville News @10 PM

A two year old little boy from Fayetteville TN was mauled by a family pet Pit Bull today and Life Flighted to a Huntsville AL hospital for treatment

Come on guys if it walks like a Duck, quacks like a Duck and Mauls Kids it must be a Pit Bull TERRORIST

The Dog of Peace has struck again......................

I wonder if this little boy's Daddy can justify to himself and / or especially this child's Mother that this didn't happen to their baby because he made a poor choice of a pet that just happened to be a Pit Bull ?

I'd hate to have to live with this if it had happened to a member of my family.:crying:

:faint:

You'll convinced me, I sent our Pit out the front door never to return again.


Actually, with all these stories, there is a valid point. A lot of the injuries/deaths are with kids. We don't have any. Maybe there is something to do with little kids. Our friends come over and their kid use to be rough with our dog. The dog would take it for awhile and then go out the pet door. I wouldn't say don't get a pit if you have kids but there is a greater concern.

Bottom line, be a responsible dog owner (so many are not). If you have a pit, be a VERY responsible dog owner. We use to have people cross the street when we walked our first pit. People would make snide comments and their dogs would usually start something. Our first pit was dog aggressive. She didn't want to take crap from another *****. Our second pit is such a baby, she lays down for chihuahuas. Again, a pit isn't for everyone but lets not try to paint with such a broad brush especially since a lot of the general public does it with us.

PROSOUTH
08-17-2011, 09:03
One thing many people seem to forget is what the dog was originally bred to do, and it damned sure wasn't bred to be a family pet.

Ding Ding Ding !

This is true and covers all of the family pet dogs in the world. There is a basic nature of all dogs to be an animal, not a family member as some believe.

I have a solid black import GSD and he is loyal and a gentle pet. He guards my grand-daughters even from me and he is my dog. Could he possably bite one of them ? Maybe, but it would be because as stated above he is an animal and it is within their nature to do so. This would be as a response to some type of defensive alarm they could trigger.

This is also true with the Pit Bull dog but I believe they also have a nature for dominance that further carry's their reasoning for an attack to a higher level of occurrence due to their dominating.

I can guarantee you that my GSD will bite anyone attempting to harm my grand kids, family or wife in any manner. I do believe that he would wait to attack someone attempting to harm me though because he thinks he would be in my way and allow me to take care of myself first..........:rofl:

Hack
08-17-2011, 09:40
That's old school. I'd go for the taser.....glock if it's a Pit Bull.

Hickory shampoo and the use of a big Maglite is old school too. Guess who has both.:whistling:

Hack
08-17-2011, 09:43
Dogs are good pets. But, the people have to know how to handle those pets. I think that is one reason that some people who have not been properly taught how to handle their pet should learn from someone who does know. It is safer for both family and pets.

PuroMexicano
08-17-2011, 10:09
I assume the stat was for the world....so US population wouldn't directly apply

As for the lightning, I saw the stat you mention which was in a given year. I used a stat referencing a lifetime....just assumed that was more accurate.

Anyway, just goes to show that stats can be twisted, manipulated, or presented pretty easily even when unintentional.

When you post statistics, always remember this:

The average human has one breast and one testicle. ~Des McHale

PROSOUTH
08-18-2011, 17:50
Girl, four, mauled to death as she watched TV by neighbour's escaped pitbull

August 18, 2011 9:59:36 AM

A four-year-old girl has been mauled to death inside her suburban Melbourne home by a neighbourís escaped pitbull-mastiff cross, renewing calls for the aggressive breed of dog to be banned.

Police Superintendent Graham Kent said the dog ran into the home, where Sudanese refugee Ayen Chol was watching TV with other children yesterday evening, and attacked.

A five-year-old girl and a 30-year-old woman were also injured. Chol died at the scene.

Cholís cousin Daniel Atem said the injured woman was outside the house when the dog chased her inside.

Atem said the dog then attacked the five-year-old. As Cholís mother intervened it turned on Chol, who was clinging to her motherís leg.

He said: 'It pulled the child from the mum... the daughter died. The dog left the child and then the owner of the dog came after that and took the dog out.'

Police says the dog will be destroyed and charges are being considered against its owner.

Family members described horrific scenes inside the home during the attack, with Ayen being shaken like a rag doll as one family member tried to beat the dog away with a table, local reports said.

The 30-year-old woman suffered puncture marks to her arms, while the five-year-old suffered bite wounds to the face.

Both were taken to hospital, where they remain in a stable condition.

The dead girl's father is working in southern Sudan but had been contacted and was returning home.

Mr Atem said: 'He's very, very, very sad. The elders community in southern Sudan will counsel him.'

The family migrated to Australia in 2004 for a better life.:whistling:

:cheerleader: :dog:

WarCry
08-18-2011, 20:27
Nine year old killed by Akita (http://www.wrdw.com/home/headlines/McCormick_girl_dies_after__114481909.html)

Seven year old killed by American Bulldog (http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2011/03/13/7-year-old-girl-viciously-attacked-by-pitbulls/) - and the article admits they originally misidentified the dog as a pitbull

Two year old injured by a French Bullmastiff (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/london/8583456.stm)

One Year Old killed by a mastiff (http://news.sky.com/home/uk-news/article/15607417)

Two week old killed by Chow (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,505161,00.html)

Three year old killed by Rottweiler (http://www.news.com.au/girl-3-attacked-by-dog/story-0-1225751097488)


If you want, you can find articles on just about any dog breed. These here are from about 30 seconds of Google searching.

All dogs are capable of it, all dogs are capable of being soft fluffy lovable friends. And every thing in between is completely normal, as well.

SanJuanTrout
08-18-2011, 21:11
I find it ironic that so many people here buy into the media pitbull bype. I didn't figure this crowd for that type of thing. Sure pitbulls attack other dogs and humans. My buddy's golden retriever does, too.

I won't defend every pitbull, but I don't think a breed extinction is in order, either.

Fo those stating "facts" and "statistics," I'd like to know just how many so called "pitbulls" are actually American Pitbull Terriers. There are about 15 breeds of dog often confused and misrepresented as pitbulls. There are countless other mixed breeds that have stocky builds or block heads that people refer to pitbulls.

It used to be Rottweilers, then Dobies, now Pits....blah, blah, blah. It's a different dog every decade that the media turns into a monster.

That being said, if a dog bites...shoot it. End of story. Doesn't matter what breed.
We buy into it because its true. If a pit snaps the results are terrible. If you can find a bad Golden its not going to maim or kill anyone. IMO anyone owning a pit and having kids around is a fool. I am fine with the breed being extincted. It would save lots of tragedies down the road.

WarCry
08-18-2011, 21:49
We buy into it because its true. If a pit snaps the results are terrible. If you can find a bad Golden its not going to maim or kill anyone.


Really?

Golden Retriever kills 3 year old girl (http://caveat.blogware.com/blog/_archives/2007/3/14/2805154.html)

Golden Retriever kills Thai owner (http://www.farangtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?1416-Golden-retriever-kills-Thai-owner)

PuroMexicano
08-19-2011, 10:59
Well, today I had a close encounter with a vicious dog, it was a mixed breed, dunno what breed, ugly as hell, no pitbull face (more pointy) but its skin was kinda striped.

It tried to attack my little schnauzer dog.
Almost draw on him, but a nice kick to the rear legs and his owner's screaming sent him running away.
Owner was warned that if let loose again it will receive a bullet to the head no questions asked.
Today I'm having a little chat with the administration of the neighborhood to talk about this incident that could be dangerous to other dogs, but specially lots of children that walk and play on that park

I'm pissed as hell!!

PROSOUTH
08-19-2011, 17:21
Really?

Golden Retriever kills 3 year old girl (http://caveat.blogware.com/blog/_archives/2007/3/14/2805154.html)

Golden Retriever kills Thai owner (http://www.farangtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?1416-Golden-retriever-kills-Thai-owner)

No one has said that other breeds aren't capable of maim or maul, just that 90% of the vicious dog calls I get are about a Pit Bull Terrorist and I realize that is an unsubstantiated stat; but I get a lot of Pitt calls compared to other breeds and have shot several in defense of myself or citizen.

But, If you can live with one of your kids missing an arm like a friend of mine's son Tyler does then have all of them you want; that is if you can live with the results. Joe's neighbor had one of those good Pit Bull Dogs that never ever bothered anyone or anything and was so sweet and gentle until he mauled Tyler and tore off the three year olds arm and ripped his face half off.

Yes I'm against Pitt Bull Terriers, but it's from an evidenciary decision not just because they're ugly. It seems to me that convincing a Pit Bull owner of the danger in their ownership is like convincing a Meth Addict that Meth is bad for you.:dunno:

Sharkey
08-19-2011, 18:11
Pitt Bull Terrorist? Whoa. Join the media parade who think TP members are terrorist. Last I checked, neither pit bulls or TP members flew some planes into some towers.

See, pit bulls don't have opposable thumbs! :whistling:

Sure, you put down ANY dog that is maiming a person but I'll be damned if I put down my non-ugly ***** who hasn't hurt a fly! Heck she barely barks or growls, uses a dog door, cuddles with us, plays, doesn't leave the front yard unleashed, travels well in a car, and camps with us and never leaves our camp site. Hell, she is better than my first pit and I cried like a bubbling baby when we had to put her down due to back pain.

Whitey1
08-19-2011, 18:22
The way it's being spun locally by the pro-pit types is that the attacking dog (there were two in the house) was an unneutered male, so that must have been the issue, because they were "good" dogs who would never harm anyone...as usual...

Unneutered? Sounds like they should have pulled his teeth instead.

WarCry
08-20-2011, 00:52
No one has said that other breeds aren't capable of maim or maul


Right, yeah, except for the when I quoted:

We buy into it because its true. If a pit snaps the results are terrible. If you can find a bad Golden its not going to maim or kill anyone. IMO anyone owning a pit and having kids around is a fool. I am fine with the breed being extincted. It would save lots of tragedies down the road.

So, I apologize, you're right. NO ONE said they won't maim or maul....




:whistling:

Arc Angel
08-20-2011, 08:17
You know, if it weren't for two of our Pit Bulldogs, I'd probably be dead right now and wouldn't be reading any of these asinine responses.

The American Pitbull Terrier is, more than any other canine, the one dog most responsible for the establishment of law and order in America. How do I know? My grandfather was a prominent police officer; and he and the department he ran used Pit Bulldogs to help them enforce the law.

Show me a, 'bad Pitbull' today; and I'll show you a, 'bad dog owner'. You don't buy a gun, load it, and throw it on a shelf in your home. The same thing is true of buying a Pit Bulldog. You can't bring a Bulldog home and just keep it around the house without proper socialization and training.

I've personally owned Pit Bulldogs for more than 35 years (probably 40 years!). I DID get badly bitten once by a rescued Pit Bulldog that another man had stupidly taken to beating. IF that creature hadn't been badly abused by its former owner, I'm sure it wouldn't have attacked me; but the event happened; and I'm intellectually honest enough to admit it.

Know how I was saved that night? My utterly devoted female Pitbull saw the other dog attack, heard me scream, and hit the attacking dog, broadside, with a ferocity that had to be seen to be believed! Of the hundreds of Pit Bulldogs I've known, that animal is the only one I ever, 'put down'. (But, to this day, I don't think anything was the Bulldog's fault. It was just one cruel and sadistic DOG OWNER, and some damned bad luck that caught me off guard!)

Less than two years after that attack the female who saved me joined in with another one of our Bulldogs, and saved me again during an (unbelievable!) early Sunday morning home invasion. If those two Pitbulls hadn't come to my rescue, I believe that enormous filthy dirty vagabond would have, at the very least, very badly hurt me.

(Why else would he have suddenly walked into my home, seen me on crutches; leered at me with that big stupid grin on his face; put his hand into his pocket to take a hold of something; and, then, start walking quickly straight towards me? Oh boy, did that guy guess wrong! There was no, 'easy mark' on crutches standing there in front of him that morning. One or two seconds later we, both, heard a loud deep growl come from the top of the stairs; and that fellow ended up running for his life!)

My wife is as, 'gentle as a lamb'. She has lived with Pit Bulldogs in the house for more than 3 decades now. I've had neighbors' children REPEATEDLY ride several of my Pit Bulldogs as if they were ponies! Why don't some of you Pit Bulldog hate mongers get off your, 'high horses'. Dogs AND people can, both, go bad. Between the two I, personally, think we'd be better off getting rid of the bad people, first. THEN we'll, all, be better able to deal with the occasional, 'bad dog'.

(In the alternative, we could do the same thing with bad dogs that America does with bad people: Place them, all, in prison for life; and warehouse them at great public expense - with 3 square meals, organized group recreation, free medical and dental care, and absolutely no job worries of any kind - for the rest of their natural lives! I mean, heck, these maladjusted canines could learn how to be even worse bad dogs while they were being warehoused - Yes! I can see it now: Illegal dogfighting rings organized, financed, and run from inside America's prisons.) :supergrin:

By the way, I particularly liked that wisecrack about Pit Bulldogs being bred to attack people, 'since Roman times'. Hey, guess the author of that remark missed it; but what, the Hell, do you think human beings have been bred for, 'since Roman times' - gardening? Some people need to swallow their hate, open their eyes, place the responsibility for bad (or aberrant) canine behavior where it actually belongs, and shut-up.

There's no Pit Bulldog on this planet that could ever do anywhere near the harm that one man is easily capable of. What do you think: Should we begin to exterminate ourselves, too? I mean, after all, mankind's record is certainly nothing to be proud of - So, 'Why' take everything out on a dog?

If we're going to be genuinely honest, we should damn ourselves along with these Bulldogs that far too many people just seem to love to hate. :rollingeyes:

Huge Grant
08-20-2011, 09:46
Pit bulls are one of the most people-friendly breeds on the planet, if not *the* friendliest. The reason is simple. When our ancestors started fighting the dogs in the "pit", they could not have them turning on their humans when it came time to separate the animals. They destroyed any dogs that turned on their masters, essentially breeding out human-agression.

I echo the sentiments of Arc Angel, wholeheartedly. You all that are spouting pit bull hate have no experience living with the breed.

dano1427
08-20-2011, 16:33
Pit bulls are one of the most people-friendly breeds on the planet, if not *the* friendliest. The reason is simple. When our ancestors started fighting the dogs in the "pit", they could not have them turning on their humans when it came time to separate the animals. They destroyed any dogs that turned on their masters, essentially breeding out human-agression.

I echo the sentiments of Arc Angel, wholeheartedly. You all that are spouting pit bull hate have no experience living with the breed.

Then explain the deaths if they are the "Friendliest breed on the planet."

Explain the Pacifica attack; perfect dogs, but one kills a woman?

clancy
08-20-2011, 17:10
Sorry, but I have to disagree. I have had over the years, experience with 5 American Staffordhsire Terriers or Pitbull Terriers. 4 were raised by what one would call responsible dog owners. The one that was owned by an idiot I posted previously. Of the other 4, 2 of the Staffs attacked children in the house that they were raised with, unprovoked, Both were neutered males. One other was great around everyone it met and would have made a great ambassador for Pitbulls except for one major flaw. At the sight of another dog it wanted to fight. Didn't matter what it was, Chihuahua or Akita, adult dog or puppy, it was homicidal. The 4th was an absolute marshmallow and was, in fact, terrorized by the family cat. Go figure.

Arc Angel
08-21-2011, 10:28
Sorry, but I have to disagree. I have had over the years, experience with 5 American Staffordhsire Terriers or Pitbull Terriers. 4 were raised by what one would call responsible dog owners. The one that was owned by an idiot I posted previously. Of the other 4, 2 of the Staffs attacked children in the house that they were raised with, unprovoked, Both were neutered males. One other was great around everyone it met and would have made a great ambassador for Pitbulls except for one major flaw. At the sight of another dog it wanted to fight. Didn't matter what it was, Chihuahua or Akita, adult dog or puppy, it was homicidal. The 4th was an absolute marshmallow and was, in fact, terrorized by the family cat. Go figure.

:) You bring up a good (but, sore) point! During the years that I bred, trained, and sold these dogs there WERE occasions when I had to deal with someone who definitely should NOT have owned a Pit Bulldog. Just as with guns, there ARE people attracted to the breed that have no more business owning any potentially formidable dog than they do owning a firearm.

What you've actually told me is that you once knew 4 families who were either incompetent or irresponsible dog owners. Sure, it's possible to get away with foisting this rationale on the general public; but, it's not going to wash with a highly experienced Pitbull owner/breeder like me who has, on occasion, had to turn away or refuse to sell to EXACTLY the sort of, 'wannabe big tough dog owners' you have just described.

Some people can be trusted with firearms, and some can't. Some families are responsible and savvy enough to own potentially aggressive canines, like Pit Bulldogs, and some aren't. I've had, 'tough dog schmucks' come to the door, play with the parents and the puppies for a few minutes before, as politely as possible, I told them I wasn't going to sell them one of my Bulldogs.

(I could tell you amazing stories of irate wannabe Pitbull owners who either threw a hissy fit after I refused to sell them a Bulldog, or another guy who actually threw several thousands of dollars at me and demanded I sell him the entire litter, 'so that he could start his own kennel'.)

I am not the least bit surprised that there are examples, out there, of Bulldogs gone bad - Pitbulls that were once owned by people who never should have owned any large dog at all. That's nothing new; as a matter of fact I continue to despise the organized news media for its virulent damnation of Pit Bulldogs, AND for doing such a deliberate and excellent job of, 'negative advertising'.

Wake up! Just like all the trouble we've had with high school shootings, more than anything else, it is the organized news media that is most responsible for attracting ALL THE WRONG PEOPLE to American Pitbull Terriers, AND for, albeit indirectly, aiding and abetting the continuation of these attacks.

This thread isn't about, 'bad Bulldogs'. Instead it's about, 'bad dog owners' - People who were (or, are) indifferent, incompetent, and unrealistic dog owners. Remember what I said about people who shouldn't own guns? Well, you can talk all you want about inalienable or Second Amendment rights. All this sophistic altruism aside, I've got several gun-owning neighbors, right here on our road, who have completely succeeded in convincing me that they should NOT be allowed to own any kind of firearm at all - Not one!

I've had these, 'gun morons' fire at deer standing less than 20 yards from our kitchen window and, then, glare at me for daring to stare at them with obvious disapproval! I've even had them open up, full-auto, with an AK-47 less than 100 yards from our home. The place vibrated so violently from the percussion that plates actually fell off shelves! I've, also, watched while they fired directly across an often busy county road! So, what do you suggest? Should we confiscate and destroy everybody's guns ...... hmmm? :upeyes:

As far as I'm concerned all this thread is about is hate mongering, and human incompetence and irresponsibility, as well as a certain morbid fascination with potentially lethal large dogs. People are people; they come in both good and bad individuals. Dogs are the same! The only difference is that certain owners of large potentially aggressive dogs NEVER HAVE A PROBLEM. While other dog owners, and for whatever individual reasons, ALWAYS seem to have problems.

Whether it comes down to either Bulldogs or guns, it's people who bear most of the blame for so much of the bad news we hear. ;)

clancy
08-21-2011, 17:36
I don't know where in my post you got the idea there were 4 incompetent dog owners. One, yes, and the guy was a complete ass. The other 3 I think were good dog owners, and also had, between them, Dobermans, a Rottie and an Akita, and there were never any problems with those breeds. By your measure of dog owning ability, if one can successfully raise and own any of those breeds, and still have a problem with a pit, than they are incompetent. I was raised around Doberman's, have owned 3 Akita's and presently own a Great Pyrenees, so I think I have my share of experience with some pretty "tough" dogs. In my 55 years years I have had or been raised with 8 of those various breeds. My experience with Pitbulls has been negative in 4 out if 5 instances, 3 out of 5 if you don't count the one pit that liked people and wanted to kill every dog in sight.

In today's local paper is an article about another pitbull, a rescue that was supposedly behaviour tested and assured by the local SPCA that the dog was wonderful. Well, it isn't, and attacked it's new owner when he got up from the sofa. This is a breed I want nothing to do with.

Arc Angel
08-21-2011, 18:47
The math looks good to me: 1 Bulldog owned by an idiot, 2 families who had problems with their children being bitten by a, 'Pitbull', and 1 habitual pit fighting, 'Bulldog'. That's 4, supposedly, Pit Bulldogs, correct? (You, yourself, refer to problems with 4 out of 5, 'whatevers'.)

You are, also, correct in as much as I DO consider anyone who has an ongoing (and unaddressed) problem with a Pitbull as being an incompetent owner. Dog problems never come, 'out of the blue'. There are always signs and warnings, and either negligent or misguided behaviors by dog owners that act as precursors to everything else that follows.

Neither do I know very much about what you are calling: Stafforshires, and Pitbulls. They are NOT the same breed. Another thing that bothers me is all the backyard crossbreeding that's taken place over the past twenty years. In the purebred circles in which I used to travel, all the bulldoggers used to call these heavily mixed canines, 'sheetbulls'. Yes, all of this, 'outbreeding' has produced both behavior and temperament problems among these mongrels that too many people consider to be genuine purebred Pit Bulldogs.

Your experiences with, 'Staffs' and, 'Pits' is dialectically opposite to my own. I suspect that the amount of time and my prolonged exposure to Bulldogs is, also, considerably greater than your own. (As I've said, in all those years, I only got bitten once; and that by a badly abused Bulldog.) You bring up another interesting point about Doberman Pinchers: I, also, have about 10 years' experience with this breed, as well.

I assume you know that one of the genetic problems with Dobermans is the fact that the breed suffers from restricted cranial capacity (brains that are larger than their skulls). While it never happened to me, I've spoken with several breeders who told me they had to put down a Doberman because of, 'insanity'.

Both dog breeding, and dog ownership involves a certain amount of risk and demands emotional and intellectual maturity from those who would be responsible (Read, 'competent') dog owners - Especially because these activities are largely unregulated and left up to the discretion of each individual owner. (Hence, my comments on refusing to sell Pit Bulldogs to certain people.) While you have focused on Bulldogs, the problems you address are really, 'dog problems' and apply, in particular, to all of the larger breeds.

razdog76
08-21-2011, 22:51
Yesterday, I just happen to be discussing this thread with my county's deputy dog warden, and he brought up a point that I haven't seen in any of the pit bull threads.

He pointed out that when dogs are around unfamiliar people they have a tendency to behave completely different than when they are around their owner/family.

Think about when you had to go to someone's house with any kind of dog. Ever see a dog that just watches you, and periodically looks to the owner as if for guidance on what to do? I talked with my girlfriend about this too, and she pointed out how she was really intimidated by my GSD until she was accepted. She told me that she went to my house top let my dogs out for me, and was not sure if my GSD was going to eat her because she was very suspicious of her being in my house. Now, she trusts my GSD.

The long winded point behind this is, for the same reason we keep larger dogs, may certainly cause problems under different circumstances.

Arc Angel
08-22-2011, 06:50
:) Well, ....... the tendency to mistrust strangers is not unique to canines alone. People do EXACTLY the same thing. I haven't had a girlfriend in many many years; but, the last one I had was very standoffish and suspicious of my motivations until well after she finally got to know me. (It was a hard sell!) ;)

That girlfriend turned out to be my wife; and, right now, she's still in bed sleeping with the last remaining Pit Bulldog out of the Giroux bloodline we've kept for almost 40 years.)

My Bulldogs are no different! I tell you for a fact: If someone comes into our home, AND my Pitbull doesn't like him ....... then, no matter how great a guy I might think that person is, I'm not going to allow myself to like him, either. (A long time ago I learned to NEVER trust anybody whom my Pit Bulldog doesn't like.)

On occasion I've given someone too much credit for being a, 'good guy'; BUT, not one of our Bulldogs has ever been wrong about the authentic character of anyone who's stopped by the house. If I'm going to trust someone then my Pitbull has to like him. Otherwise, bitter experience has taught me to always keep that individual at arm's length - Period!

Like the firearms student I once spent the better part of two years palling around with and teaching how to use firearms. He was always unusually friendly and actually generous to me; unfortunately, he was also a, 'closet pedophile' who had done some awful things to a badly confused 10 year old girl; and, sadly, all this happened during the exact time period in which I knew him.

Needless to say, whenever he visited our home, my Bulldog always tended to keep her distance and never seemed to like the guy. Whenever that fellow was around, our Pitbull - which is still living with us, today - used to give me this look, like, 'What are you, crazy?' :shocked:

Roering
08-22-2011, 14:49
They destroyed any dogs that turned on their masters, essentially breeding out human-agression.

Well, we must tell that pregnant woman. She will be so relieved!

clancy
08-22-2011, 18:54
I am totally unfamiliar with some Doberman's having a head too small for it's brain. I haven't really been around too many Dobies in the past 30 years, but looked at one this morning and can see how that might be a possibilty.

As for dog's judging a person's charfacter, I totally believe that. I had a female Akita that just barely tolerated my ex-wife when we started dating. Had I paid more attention to the dog it would have saved me a lot of grief. My GF's Shar-Pei liked me from the first time met me, and actually fell asleep on my lap about 10 minutes after we were introduced. And he is a dog that is vary standoffish around strangers. My Great Pyrenees just plain does not like 2 kids that pal around with my son, and the more I am around the boys the more I respect the dog's judgement.

Sharkey
08-22-2011, 19:24
Well, we must tell that pregnant woman. She will be so relieved!

Uh, I think she died?






Oh wait, that was sarcasm. :whistling:
What he said is true. Don't like pits, no one is forcing you to get one.
Do you just want to kill everyone of them? Where do we stop after that?

Way to contribute to the thread.
(that is sarcasm too by the way)

AA#5
08-22-2011, 19:51
I am totally unfamiliar with some Doberman's having a head too small for it's brain. I haven't really been around too many Dobies in the past 30 years, but looked at one this morning and can see how that might be a possibilty.

As for dog's judging a person's charfacter, I totally believe that. I had a female Akita that just barely tolerated my ex-wife when we started dating. Had I paid more attention to the dog it would have saved me a lot of grief. My GF's Shar-Pei liked me from the first time met me, and actually fell asleep on my lap about 10 minutes after we were introduced. And he is a dog that is vary standoffish around strangers. My Great Pyrenees just plain does not like 2 kids that pal around with my son, and the more I am around the boys the more I respect the dog's judgement.

"I had a female Akita that just barely tolerated my ex-wife when we started dating. Had I paid more attention to the dog it would have saved me a lot of grief."

:thumbsup:So true! My Lab could take or leave my ex & I should have listened to him sooner. My ex would get jealous when I'd pet my dog & it didn't matter how much attention I paid to her.....she wanted ALL of it.

Once while I was petting him, she asked me, "I wonder what would happen if I asked you to choose between that dog and me?"
I said, "I'd suggest you wear your seat belt & drive safely."

Landric
08-23-2011, 14:39
These threads always run the same course. One group that thinks only owners are to blame for dog behavior (it seems they have never heard of instinct or breeding) and people who hate the specific breed (usually pit bulls) and want them eliminated. Its always the same.

The pit bull defenders usually have the same arguments that seem to center around other people being bad owners and them being good owners. They often, as has been done here, compare their animals to people and suggest that those who think the breed should be eliminated should then also think people should be eliminated because they are "more dangerous".

This line of "logic" tends to miss two major issues however; humans have free will and the ability to exercise logic, and human life is more important than animal life. Aggressive breeds are called that for a reason. Pit bulls are not the only breed, but they do account for the lions share of dangerous dog calls I have responded to over my law enforcement career. Aggressiveness is their instinct, bred in over many years. Simply because a specific animal doesn't show such traits doesn't mean that the breed overall is harmless.

The question we have to ask ourselves is, is keeping aggressive breeds that have demonstrated the ability to be extremely dangerous over decades a reasonable risk to take because some people want to be able to own them? We are not talking about something that is protected by the Constitution or a God given right here, there is no "right to own pets". Society has to weigh the positives and negatives of allowing a breed that has demonstrated its self as dangerous time and time again to continue to exist in our society simply because some people (many of whom qualify as "bad owners" in the mantra of the pit bull apologists) want to own the breed.

To me, the answer is pretty clear. Its not worth the risk. I've seen too many people, many of them children, mauled by pit bulls. I don't care if its because the owners were bad or the dogs were bad, it doesn't matter. As long as the breed exists bad owners will have them. Should they be punished when their dogs attack without justification? Absolutely, but that doesn't mean we should allow the breed to continue to exist to satisfy a small number of "good" owners who just "want to own pit bulls". After all, there are plenty of documented cases of "good" dogs going bad without warning. There are also plenty of other breeds that make wonderful pets and don't have the history pit bulls do.

I have yet to hear why it is from the "good pit bull owners" why it is they just have to have that specific breed of dog. I suspect the reason is "because I want to" or something similar. That would be all the justification I would need if we were talking about someone's rights. Since owning a pit bull isn't a right in this country, I need more justification when someone I care about could be at risk.

Perhaps my view on this is a bit skewed because I don't see animals as members of the family. They serve a purpose, whatever that might be, but they will never be as important to me as my family. I really don't understand people who place the same value on animal life as human life. Perhaps that makes me backward or old fashioned, but it is who I am.

ETA: Even I am not suggesting rounding up and killing every pit bull in the country. I would, however, support legislation making it illegal to breed pit bulls, require the spaying and neutering of all animals, provided punishments for people who break the laws, and simply allowing the breed to die out. I understand other people would not be in favor of such a thing, and they are free to think whatever they would like about my ideas or me.

Sharkey
08-23-2011, 15:35
I have yet to hear why it is from the "good pit bull owners" why it is they just have to have that specific breed of dog. I suspect the reason is "because I want to" or something similar. That would be all the justification I would need if we were talking about someone's rights. Since owning a pit bull isn't a right in this country, I need more justification when someone I care about could be at risk.



I got the dog because they are loyal, smart, low maintenance, breed relatively free of medical defects, average size that doesn't poop a mountain in the yard, etc.

Much like other legislation we create, it is mostly feel good and does very little. Let's criminalize an owner because of the type of dog he has? That sounds eerily similar to the gun ban of those evil black guns.

Your right, I don't agree with you but hey we live in a free country..........for now. I'd rather kill a drunk driver that murdered someone than kill my dog who hasn't hurt anyone. It's not that I value a dog's life over a human but rather I value good behavior over bad.

Landric
08-23-2011, 16:40
I got the dog because they are loyal, smart, low maintenance, breed relatively free of medical defects, average size that doesn't poop a mountain in the yard, etc.

OK, but so are lots of dogs. Why specifically pit bull (type) ones?

Much like other legislation we create, it is mostly feel good and does very little. Let's criminalize an owner because of the type of dog he has? That sounds eerily similar to the gun ban of those evil black guns.

I was suggesting we criminalize breeding them, not owning them. Eventually all of them, good and bad, would be gone. It may sound similar to gun control to you, but the difference is my mind is that there is no right to own a pit bull, and they present a significant public safety risk. There is a right to own weapons. Even if someone could prove to me that the ownership of EBRs represented a serious risk to public safety (which they can't), I wouldn't be in favor of controlling them. Pit Bull's, on the other hand, don't perform any function that couldn't be performed equally as well by other dogs and are not protected by Constitutional or God given rights.

Your right, I don't agree with you but hey we live in a free country..........for now. I'd rather kill a drunk driver that murdered someone than kill my dog who hasn't hurt anyone. It's not that I value a dog's life over a human but rather I value good behavior over bad.

I would as well. Drunk drivers disgust me, and one of my earliest experiences as a law enforcement officer was responding to DWI fatality crash where an innocent was killed. At any rate, I never suggested that the state should round up and kill all pit bulls, I suggested the state prohibit the future breeding of pit bulls.

PROSOUTH
08-23-2011, 16:40
LANDRIC To me, the answer is pretty clear. Its not worth the risk. I've seen too many people, many of them children, mauled by pit bulls. I don't care if its because the owners were bad or the dogs were bad, it doesn't matter. As long as the breed exists bad owners will have them. Should they be punished when their dogs attack without justification? Absolutely, but that doesn't mean we should allow the breed to continue to exist to satisfy a small number of "good" owners who just "want to own pit bulls". After all, there are plenty of documented cases of "good" dogs going bad without warning. There are also plenty of other breeds that make wonderful pets and don't have the history pit bulls do.


So well put and to the point, the bottom line here is that there is more risk of injury from this breed than any I know. My animal calls are 90% Pitt calls. I am an animal lover, especially dogs, and I would have no problem with the Pitt Bull Terrier breed except for the extensive history of maim and maul they have and it's on record everywhere and in all enviroments. I'm actually sorry for the owners who have them that later find this out the hard way after loss of life or severe injury occurs.

I don't dispute all of the positive attributes the owners / lovers of the breed list and agree with their statements that for the most part they are as stated a great pet. The only problem is their one bad characteristic of turning on children, other animals and adults as stated above and that my friends out weighs all of their positive attributes.

Those of us who see and those who will not see are never going to agree on the problems of this dog, that is until that characteristic surfaces within their home or injury to a neighborhood child. Then my friends "I'm sorry" is too late.

As stated, I have no reason to disrespect this breed other than haviing been present at so many incidents where their negative trait has emerged and displayed the ugly side of this breed so many are blind to.

]"It is natural to man to indulge in the illusions of hope. We are apt to shut our eyes against a painful truth -- and listen to the song of that syren, till she transforms us into beasts. ... Are we disposed to be of the number of those, who having eyes, see not, and having ears, hear not?" --Patrick Henry[/B]

Roering
08-23-2011, 17:55
Do you just want to kill everyone of them? Where do we stop after that?


Way to take my comment to the extreme Sharkey.

No, of course I do not condone "killing everyone of them". I do however understand what it is that they were bred for. Initially for being used in packs to kill bulls for sport. This went on for centuries dating back to antiquity until somewhere around the 1600's when it was considered to brutal of a sport. From then on Pit's were used to fight each other (usually to the death). Today they are still used in that capacity........that and as family pets of course :upeyes:. Of course there are many breeds of dogs that have been bred to function in other capacities that are also family pets. Instinct still plays a role in their behavior though. The first two years of my Labs lives consisted of me constantly training them to STOP grabbing my arms with their mouths when we played rough. What do you expect, they are retrievers so grabbing is what they do. Westies were used to hunt mice on Spanish Galleons and although they make good family pets, they are known to attack the family rabbit/guinea pig/mouse/etc. My friends Australian Shepherd can't leave the kids well enough alone in the yard and always tries to coax them into one smaller area. We see these things in dogs as (for the most part) endearing traits that are just playing true to their breed/instinct.

Pit Bulls however have been trained/bred to fight & ultimately kill. Unlike other breeds, when their instincts take over, it's not so endearing.

If we as a society are not to use them as fighting dogs, and we cannot breed this out of them. Maybe we should stop breeding them altogether?

That will seem harsh to many I'm sure. Some drama queens will read this and equate it to wiping out a human ethnic group or something but it is not the same.

Sharkey
08-24-2011, 08:22
Way to take my comment to the extreme Sharkey.

So advising a dead pregnent woman isn't extreme?

Pit Bulls however have been trained/bred to fight & ultimately kill. Unlike other breeds, when their instincts take over, it's not so endearing.

They were trained and bred to fight other dogs, not people. What are the percentages of "bad" pits who kill someone compared to the "good" pits that are owned by responsible dog owners.

If we as a society are not to use them as fighting dogs, and we cannot breed this out of them. Maybe we should stop breeding them altogether?

Sure says you and others but many like myself disagree. I guess that is why the legal system exist. Why don't we concern ourselves with the issues that cause most people to die. Medical Malpractice, DWI, and Auto Acc. come to mind. You wanna save lives, you could save a lot this way.

That will seem harsh to many I'm sure. Some drama queens will read this and equate it to wiping out a human ethnic group or something but it is not the same.

Maybe the Germans said that too? :tongueout: A bit over the top??

Landric - I got the first pit because it was a rescue that needed a home. Apparently dumping her in the woods after having a liter because she wasn't full pit ws ok by the prior owner.

I got the second pit because it too was a rescue and the first pit was such a wonderful dog. The second one, much to my surprise, is better than the first. Why don't you pit haters, just rescue the hyper labs and toy classes. We'll take care of these man-killers for you. :wow:

Landric
08-24-2011, 10:02
Maybe the Germans said that too? :tongueout: A bit over the top??

Perhaps, the but the Nazi's were talking about people, not animals that have a bad reputation and cannot be reasoned with.

Landric - I got the first pit because it was a rescue that needed a home. Apparently dumping her in the woods after having a liter because she wasn't full pit ws ok by the prior owner.

I got the second pit because it too was a rescue and the first pit was such a wonderful dog. The second one, much to my surprise, is better than the first. Why don't you pit haters, just rescue the hyper labs and toy classes. We'll take care of these man-killers for you. :wow:

Rescuing animals is admirable, but it they were not being bred, they wouldn't need to be rescued. The county where I grew up will not adopt out pit bull type dogs, if they come into the shelter, they are put down. Its probably the most liberal county in the state, so that line surprises me, but its their policy.

Roering
08-24-2011, 16:23
I got two Labs because they have a reputation for being very friendly, albeit not the most gentle with kids. I never have to worry about what they might do when out in public when someone approaches them.

And they have an insatiable appetite for playing fetch.