This is only a test. Had this been an actual emergency... [Archive] - Glock Talk

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G29Reload
08-16-2011, 15:10
Your reactions on the spot. Do not go away and think about this, because had this been an actual emergency you would not have that luxury. This addresses your state of preparedness NOW. You can improve later, but the following are the scenarios:

A. You live 8 miles from a sensitive military base or installation. There are no subsurface assets to speak of, so this selected target receives a 200kt airburst with no prior warning in the media. You are in your house and awake when it goes off, and because of brick construction you are not harmed by the gamma burst, and you're not looking directly out of the window. You have approximately 45 seconds before a heavily front-loaded shock wave hits your house, but due to dissipations of distance, the original 400mph surge is down to a survivable 95mph by the time it hits you. Still, the clock is ticking...

You...?

B. You are 55 miles from a major city. The prevailing winds are blowing in your favor, away from you, when without warning, a Chinese 600kt theater weapon explodes 3000' above the hypocenter downtown. The distance means the shockwave will be well dispersed and radiation is blowing away from you for the time being. Between you and the city at a range of 30 miles a major airport is hit by a 200kt groundburst meant to wipe out the runways and there is some heavy fallout but still the winds are blowing away from you. You're up and its a workday, but you havent left yet, though one of your kids is at the bus stop, but comes running back.

C. Same as B, but its February and you've just had 2 feet of snow. At least the house is well stocked from the SuperBowl party leftovers and you knew the snow storm is coming. You...

D. Its a Wednesday night just before 7p, and the President is to address the nation out of the blue, on a matter of "great national urgency" and it turns out to be some nuclear cliff walking with a belligerent nation which has just been read the riot act and warned that they better stand down or we're gonna toe the line with nukes. Some political deadline has been issued for 9am the next morning, if its even reached because things are getting Cuban-Missile-Crisis hairy. The military is under full mobilization and defcon one, the interstates are CLOSED and blocked by state troopers to facilitate military movements and that un spools just after the speech is given. Forget about going anywhere, the order is to close all supermarkets to avoid riots and prevent hoarding, with them to be re-opened under secure supervision for rationing under secure control after things go bad if it gets that far, or to keep chaos from taking over if things are ok but folks suspect it may not be over. The power is on, but the stock market is to be closed the next day and schools are shut down.

You...

E. In a fit of government efficiency, the EBS actually works and without any warning all programming goes off the air and the President suddenly appears or is heard, and announces that full scale nuke exchange is underway between us and the enemy of your choice, China or Russia. Typically ICBMS take 22 minutes but by the time they ID'd the problem and got the Prez to the basement, 7 minutes had passed and it takes a minute or two to process the information. You have less than 15 minutes, and you've just been given the major news and told to "take cover, under ground if possible" . Warning sirens are going off from the local fire department. Date, time and location of your choice, most likely for you in your scenario.

You...


Ready, set,.....SURVIVE!


:shocked:

Dexters
08-16-2011, 16:31
I'm drinking the beer while it is still cold, breaking out the chips and salsa and watching it all unfold via the internet, tv, radio. If they are out I'm cranking up the iPod or CD player with some Mototown.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyJEL9fdxWo&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2U7Vb7i6MIo&feature=related

Get up off your butt and on the floor, let the music set you free

G29Reload
08-16-2011, 17:13
ok, you're dead in the first wave. You died with a smile on your face, clearly not serious about survival. But you lived well. I both admire, and pity you. Quite the dichotomy.

Next?

TangoFoxtrot
08-16-2011, 17:16
A. I'll bend over and kiss my A for 45 seconds.
B. I'll bend over and Kiss my A bye bye once again.
C. I'll open my stash of MGD get S faced and kiss my A bye bye.
D. I'll rip up my voter registration card and continue to get S faced and kiss my A bye bye.
E. I'll lite up a J, crack open another cold one, and continue to kiss my A bye bye.

Ready, get set .... I died.

Dexters
08-16-2011, 17:18
ok, you're dead in the first wave. You died with a smile on your face, clearly not serious about survival. But you lived well. I both admire, and pity you. Quite the dichotomy.

Next?

Why don't you post how you plan to survive and for how long?

quake
08-16-2011, 17:31
A - not sure how to respond. Don't have that situation, so haven't tried to prepare for it specifically. That said, our house is a red-iron frame structure rated to 125mph sustained winds - guess we'll see if they were telling the truth in the specifications. In 45 seconds, herd (physically if necessary) everyone into a central room with no windows. If time, open a few windows to try & reduce window breakage, but fact is I didn't think of that within the first 45 seconds here, so I almost certainly wouldn't in the real thing. After shockwave passes, doublecheck water stores and get survey meter & misc potective gear out.

B - Get inside, get survey meter and protective gear, and doublecheck water stores...?

C - Same as B but doublecheck backup heat as well..?

D - Wednesday at 7pm I'm at choir practice 90% of the time, so I wouldn't know about it until 8:30 or so. We can get to our retreat location without travelling any interstates (have to cross above one at an underpass), so that combined with carrying LE credentials and knowing probably half of the few state troopers in the area, may let us get from our fairly rural main location, to our "dang rural" bugout location. If we just can't get out, then we can't. Stay home and see "B" and "C" above.

E - shelter in place. Do NOT want to be out among terrified, desperate people; they can be as lethal as the nukes. Anyone not in the house gets notified by cell if possible (gamble, but gotta try). Beyond that, see B, C, and D above.

G29Reload
08-16-2011, 17:52
A - not sure how to respond. Don't have that situation, so haven't tried to prepare for it specifically. That said, our house is a red-iron frame structure rated to 125mph sustained winds - guess we'll see if they were telling the truth in the specifications. In 45 seconds, herd (physically if necessary) everyone into a central room with no windows. If time, open a few windows to try & reduce window breakage, but fact is I didn't think of that within the first 45 seconds here, so I almost certainly wouldn't in the real thing. After shockwave passes, doublecheck water stores and get survey meter & misc potective gear out.

B - Get inside, get survey meter and protective gear, and doublecheck water stores...?

C - Same as B but doublecheck backup heat as well..?

D - Wednesday at 7pm I'm at choir practice 90% of the time, so I wouldn't know about it until 8:30 or so. We can get to our retreat location without travelling any interstates (have to cross above one at an underpass), so that combined with carrying LE credentials and knowing probably half of the few state troopers in the area, may let us get from our fairly rural main location, to our "dang rural" bugout location. If we just can't get out, then we can't. Stay home and see "B" and "C" above.

E - shelter in place. Do NOT want to be out among terrified, desperate people; they can be as lethal as the nukes. Anyone not in the house gets notified by cell if possible (gamble, but gotta try). Beyond that, see B, C, and D above.

You sir, are who i would gladly share a foxhole with.

I do not know how you'd do, till I review in depth.

But I do know this:
Anyone MORE THAN 5 miles from an actual detonation WILL survive. HOW WELL is another question, and dependent on how you answer here. If you've already written it off and don't expect to or even try, then yes, you won't do well. If you search for answers, make an effort, etc., then things might work out for you.

G29Reload
08-16-2011, 18:00
Why don't you post how you plan to survive and for how long?


I will cover all of that.

I reside within 8 miles of the President's nuke bunker, in rural VA, less than 60 air miles from DC.

So, I also live within striking distance of DC.

And, Dulles Airport, on the border between Loudoun and Fairfax County, with 8000' runways and a designated alternate for AF1.

They may try a decapitation strike, and if they're smart they won't. They need someone at this end to shut the spigot off off if it gets hairy.

I have a full basement, which I WILL dive for if I see the flashcube go off. I do keep bottled water and MRE's in the basement for this contingency. If its lesser and I am above ground, well I have a year's supply of food. I am k and will avoid the chaos.

Dexters
08-16-2011, 18:20
I will cover all of that.

I reside within 8 miles of the President's nuke bunker, in rural VA, less than 60 air miles from DC.

So, I also live within striking distance of DC.

And, Dulles Airport, on the border between Loudoun and Fairfax County, with 8000' runways and a designated alternate for AF1.

They may try a decapitation strike, and if they're smart they won't. They need someone at this end to shut the spigot off off if it gets hairy.

I have a full basement, which I WILL dive for if I see the flashcube go off. I do keep bottled water and MRE's in the basement for this contingency. If its lesser and I am above ground, well I have a year's supply of food. I am k and will avoid the chaos.

What do you have to clean the air of radiation?

http://www.unitedstatesaction.com/nuclear_radiation_and_fallout.htm

G29Reload
08-16-2011, 18:26
What do you have to clean the air of radiation?

http://www.unitedstatesaction.com/nuclear_radiation_and_fallout.htm

The air does not and can not contain radiation. Radiation does however attach itself to particulate matter thrown into the atmosphere. Even a tiny spec breathed into your lungs can result in lung cancer. That is why you see people wearing dust masks after a nuke emergency.

Radiation is directional...which is why just being below round helps you avoid it, and wearing a dust mask helps you avoid breathing in damaging particulate.

YOU CAN survive nuclear attack. Knowing the specifics helps.

Dexters
08-16-2011, 18:41
The air does not and can not contain radiation. Radiation does however attach itself to particulate matter thrown into the atmosphere. Even a tiny spec breathed into your lungs can result in lung cancer. That is why you see people wearing dust masks after a nuke emergency.

Radiation is directional...which is why just being below round helps you avoid it, and wearing a dust mask helps you avoid breathing in damaging particulate.

YOU CAN survive nuclear attack. Knowing the specifics helps.

The initial radiation from the blast is not affected by the wind. See the article I attached.

What are you using to clean the air with particulate matter that radiation has attached itself to while you are in your shelter and after you leave it, assuming you are downwind of the explosion?

http://www.unitedstatesaction.com/nuclear_radiation_and_fallout.htm

What will be of concern to the greatest number of people, though, is the remaining 10% of the energy unleashed by a nuclear explosion, the residual or fallout radiation. Any nuclear detonation on the ground, or where an airburst was low enough that the fireball touched the ground, will create tons of radioactive materials that will be sucked up into the classical mushroom shaped cloud to then be spread far downwind. These radioactive particles carried by the wind then later fall out many miles away from ground zero and are the source of what we know as radioactive fallout. Each of these trillions of contaminated particles continuously gives off invisible radiation while in the mushroom cloud, while descending, and after having fallen to earth.

UneasyRider
08-16-2011, 19:05
I live in Florida less than 10 miles from KSC and 15 from PAFB and CCAFS and rocket launching facility. I am very close to the east coast with millions of others. We would be dead in any case.

G29Reload
08-16-2011, 19:13
The initial radiation from the blast is not affected by the wind. See the article I attached.

What are you using to clean the air with particulate matter that radiation has attached itself to while you are in your shelter and after you leave it, assuming you are downwind of the explosion?

http://www.unitedstatesaction.com/nuclear_radiation_and_fallout.htm

What will be of concern to the greatest number of people, though, is the remaining 10% of the energy unleashed by a nuclear explosion, the residual or fallout radiation. Any nuclear detonation on the ground, or where an airburst was low enough that the fireball touched the ground, will create tons of radioactive materials that will be sucked up into the classical mushroom shaped cloud to then be spread far downwind. These radioactive particles carried by the wind then later fall out many miles away from ground zero and are the source of what we know as radioactive fallout. Each of these trillions of contaminated particles continuously gives off invisible radiation while in the mushroom cloud, while descending, and after having fallen to earth.

I'm asking the questions here Private Pyle, can I be in charge for awhile? Thank you very much. Do you...never mind...:)

Dexters
08-16-2011, 19:19
can I be in charge for awhile?

The troops are all yours, sir.

Let me know when you are ready for a beer and the 4 Tops.

quake
08-16-2011, 19:53
Fwiw, I'm no nucleaar physicist and can't swear to this, but I've read more than one place that the total fallout from either a 10- or 20-megaton (can't recall which) ground burst can be insulated against by a single layer of 11 or 12 inches of concrete. Few have that, but many could; and what are the odds of needing that much - enough for ALL the fallout. Bear in mind that a ground burst will create more radioactive matter (and therefore fallout of radioactive matter) than an airburst, since so much more debris gets sucked into the mushroom during a groundburst than in an airburst.

Even a simple, typical 6-inch slab as in a safe room or storm cellar will block 85-90 percent or so of fallout. Good hepa or better air filtration can greatly keep particulates out as much as possible while letting air in. Not a guarantee of safety, but a whole lot better than zero percent.

Misty02
08-16-2011, 21:07
What happens once your supplies run out? How long before you can plant vegetables, fruits, etc (condition of both dirt and water)? It would be very sad to manage to survive a year or two, see those around you die only to then die yourself.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
We have some plans to survive some events but not every conceivable one. Death might not always be the worst possible thing.<o:p></o:p>

.

DaScotsman
08-16-2011, 21:24
Shelter in place for all 5... I have a basement, and I'm stocked. Board up my windows the next safe day.

Would like to try to get to a more remote location than my suburb, but probably wouldn't do it for a few days... let the herd thin itself out a bit.

And, of course, Life just became a Weapons-hot scenario, 24/7...

Kaceyx73
08-16-2011, 23:42
2 main points in any nuclear situation...

1. Hunker down and wait till the initial event has subsided, check prevailing winds, plan on taking one of my several planned out escape routes based on what information I have.
2. At first sound of warning, get out immediately with BOB and GHB. As soon as information can be gleaned, no more than 2 people of my group will go back in for additional supplies, if the situation warrants it.

Either way, I live 6 miles outside of a city that isn't much of a terrorist target unless its a local homegrown issue, and less than 5 miles outside of a former AFB, with a still operating 2 mile runway. While not the target of choice for a quick strike, in the event of full blown missile lobbing party it would be a target, as well as my city, GSP airport (15 miles), and Oconee Nuclear Station (45 miles, and I am downwind under normal weather). My routes out consider our major wind patterns and the other possible targets.

As for any radiation, including fallout, it becomes an function of time. If you dodge the initial gamma burst and survive the blast wave, the longer you are exposed to radiation the worse it will be. I don't plan on being around long enough to get burned. We all know what traffic will be like, so waiting around with indecision will be much worse. If things settle down, plans to go back in in 2's to gather tools and longer term supplies will be made, but if its too bad, better like your BOB!!!

I have checked the prevailing winds maps, and locations of nuclear facilities to pick a few off the beaten path places where fallout wouldn't likely make it nor would radiation clouds from a melt down pass over. You will never be 100%, but I would rather have some plan than none. My chosen areas are not well known, have plentiful game, and fertile land. MAny farms and ranches nearby have plenty of various livestock and seeds. There also hard to get to, very hard to get to.

Oh, and if there is any credible threat of nuclear war, my truck and trailer will be preloaded with as much supplies as possible, including tools. The car will be loaded with short term essentials in case the vehicles are separated. If the threat becomes imminent, I was already out of town on vacation...

kirgi08
08-17-2011, 00:14
What happens once your supplies run out? How long before you can plant vegetables, fruits, etc (condition of both dirt and water)? It would be very sad to manage to survive a year or two, see those around you die only to then die yourself.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
We have some plans to survive some events but not every conceivable one. Death might not always be the worst possible thing.<o:p></o:p>

.

That's the devil of it,a NBC type disaster is our greatest fear.We have a plan and we don't live near any high value targets.That leaves the "B/C" part of it.The results of that type of strike are terrifying.No real way ta defend and no real way ta detect.The sad part about this is that the OPs premise is quite plausible.A nut job with a vial of "insert biologic" or a cannister of,can decimate a very large area and if the "agent" got inta the ground water it'd kill millions.'08.

Pm inbound.

X-ray 4N6
08-17-2011, 00:52
A very popular place will be the local hospital's radiology department (radiotherapy bunker would be even better).
It all depends how fast you can get there and how much bottled water you can bring with you or how much bottled water they have on site at the hospital.

AK_Stick
08-17-2011, 01:40
A, B, C, D, E.


I stay home with my dog and wait for the initial freak out to be over.


Call me in a year when the power is back on.

M1A Shooter
08-17-2011, 02:36
i do live right about 8 miles off of the center of fort campbell. if it gets hit by a nuke i would probably end up gone in the first blast as im very close to the 160th SOAR flightline. i know of an almost forgotten about area of post that was built for these kind of things but they are getting more decrepid all the time. only purpose built structure i can think of but not sure id be running towards that crap...

pugman
08-17-2011, 06:17
I will play.

A: Not even a concern to me in the direct sense as the closest military base is 30 miles away and I don’t even know if it would be considered vital; indirectly I would treat it as a soon to be martial law situation. If this base was targeted, most of my communications are toast as the cable and local phone and cell phone providers all reside in this city.

I am no scientist but my home sits directly behind a fairly steep slope which would lead me to believe some or most of the shock wave would be absorbed by it. Over the past, several years we have had some freak storms which produced winds in excess of 70mph. The slope leads to a farmer’s field so no chance of debris (other than soybeans this time of year) hitting the house (I hope).

I’m not sure how I would know I have 45 seconds…but its wake up the wife…grab the hounds, and head into the basement. I need to reeducate myself on fall out, but last I read, I have at least 48-72 hours to sit and wait before I head to my bro’s down the street…check on his family….then discuss our options.

After this, I’m considering it to be martial law. I can’t imagine this was the only base hit; so its hunker down, work from home if I can and go weapons hot.

B: It about my exact situation except 55 miles is more like 50 and we have no kids. I’m up every day at 3 am. Considering the weapon will wipe out my major traffic problem from the east (Milwaukee and most likely parts of Chicago) I could potentially get out of dodge to our planned retreat #1 with little effort if I left quickly. Unfortunately, my partner for retreat #2 is most likely dead since they live in Milwaukee. Most likely the same as A…hunker down.

C. Same as B…hunker down.

D. Same as B and C…hunker down

E. Same as B, C and D.

Since this is a on the spot test, truth be told I feel about as good as I can about the situations above. Over my recent two day vacation (last Thursday and Friday) I reorganized and rechecked all my in-house preps…and bought a ton of food. I finally inventoried what was in the house and restocked quite a bit of our pantry supplies including vitamins, soup, tuna, some OTC drugs, bleach, etc. I even got a little time to try out some new defensive ammo, cleaned and oiled a few shotguns and rotated all our water supplies…although 120 gallons is hardly enough.

GlockinNJ
08-17-2011, 06:31
Tagged. Because if any of these scenarios actually happen, I will:

a) get my laptop which will have plenty of power in the battery before the grid went down

b) log onto GT, because we all know the internet is built to survive a nuclear attack, and

c) read this thread, because surely all the answers will be here for me.

:cool:

Dexters
08-17-2011, 06:55
What happens once your supplies run out? How long before you can plant vegetables, fruits, etc (condition of both dirt and water)? It would be very sad to manage to survive a year or two, see those around you die only to then die yourself.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
We have some plans to survive some events but not every conceivable one. Death might not always be the worst possible thing.<o:p></o:p>

.

If the land and water has been contaminated, it is extremely difficult to grow food.
First you need to protect yourself while outside and kicking up the contaminated dirt/dust. That would mean full body covering, cleaning of the air you are breathing and then decontaminating all of that when you take it off.
Next, you have to remove the contaminated soil (and dispose of it someplace) you plan to plant in. I don't know how many inches of soil that is.
Next, you need uncontaminated water - a lot of it.
You then need to be watchful for dust storms that could bring in more contaminated particles. They are likely because the firestorms caused by the blast would have burnt large areas.

Detection devices and monitoring of radiation exposure would be very important.

If you were to attempt to leave the area; it would be just as difficult. You would need to protect yourself while outside and kicking up the contaminated dirt/dust. As with the planting that would mean full body covering, cleaning of the air you are breathing and then decontaminating all of that when you take it off. But you would also have to carry all the clean water and food you would need until you got to safety since ground water, animals and vegetation would be contaminated.

Even if you do all that you must figure out a way to deal with ionized radiation.
http://articles.latimes.com/2011/mar/16/health/la-he-japan-quake-radiation-20110316

I'm no expert on all of this. I just know what I don't know can kill me.

G29Reload
08-17-2011, 14:30
Its basement time for me. The only overhead I have is a stairwell, so I will load stuff on the steps down to the basement with mass and a bucket with liners and a couple cases of MREs and bottled water in the closet underneath. A pistol, N95 mask and battery operated shortwave accompany me.

Misty02
08-17-2011, 16:26
If the land and water has been contaminated, it is extremely difficult to grow food.
First you need to protect yourself while outside and kicking up the contaminated dirt/dust. That would mean full body covering, cleaning of the air you are breathing and then decontaminating all of that when you take it off.
Next, you have to remove the contaminated soil (and dispose of it someplace) you plan to plant in. I don't know how many inches of soil that is.
Next, you need uncontaminated water - a lot of it.
You then need to be watchful for dust storms that could bring in more contaminated particles. They are likely because the firestorms caused by the blast would have burnt large areas.

Detection devices and monitoring of radiation exposure would be very important.

If you were to attempt to leave the area; it would be just as difficult. You would need to protect yourself while outside and kicking up the contaminated dirt/dust. As with the planting that would mean full body covering, cleaning of the air you are breathing and then decontaminating all of that when you take it off. But you would also have to carry all the clean water and food you would need until you got to safety since ground water, animals and vegetation would be contaminated.

Even if you do all that you must figure out a way to deal with ionized radiation.
http://articles.latimes.com/2011/mar/16/health/la-he-japan-quake-radiation-20110316

I'm no expert on all of this. I just know what I don't know can kill me.

We definitely donít have full body covering, living in Miami means we have no basement either. We have some manual tools for gardening, planting and things of the like but obviously not the type of tools (or enough land) to grow sufficient food to sustain our family.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
In case something of that magnitude occurs, it was nice knowing you all. Once you manage to get the internet back up and donít see me, youíll know what happened. :crying:<o:p></o:p>

bdcochran
08-17-2011, 19:11
Easy! I am dead in any of the scenarios.

lawman800
08-18-2011, 09:14
Living near downtown los angeles means I am dead. If the nuke doesn't get me, the resultant mobs will. But rest assured that I wil be found with a few empty mags and lots of empty brass because I'm not going out for lack of shooting back.

Aceman
08-18-2011, 15:59
A. You live 8 miles from a sensitive military base or installation. There are no subsurface assets to speak of, so this selected target receives a 200kt airburst with no prior warning in the media. You are in your house and awake when it goes off, and because of brick construction you are not harmed by the gamma burst, and you're not looking directly out of the window. You have approximately 45 seconds before a heavily front-loaded shock wave hits your house, but due to dissipations of distance, the original 400mph surge is down to a survivable 95mph by the time it hits you. Still, the clock is ticking...
You...?

Hanker down and wait it out. Too many will be trying to leave, out in the streets etc. I guess someone h=just tryed to nuke Socom HQ down at MacDill.

B. You are 55 miles from a major city. The prevailing winds are blowing in your favor, away from you, when without warning, a Chinese 600kt theater weapon explodes 3000' above the hypocenter downtown. The distance means the shockwave will be well dispersed and radiation is blowing away from you for the time being. Between you and the city at a range of 30 miles a major airport is hit by a 200kt groundburst meant to wipe out the runways and there is some heavy fallout but still the winds are blowing away from you. You're up and its a workday, but you havent left yet, though one of your kids is at the bus stop, but comes running back.

Gear up the house for fallout.

C. Same as B, but its February and you've just had 2 feet of snow. At least the house is well stocked from the SuperBowl party leftovers and you knew the snow storm is coming. You...

I'm in Florida. I panic like hell, because if there is snow the earth has fell off it's axis and we are effed. Get a beer. The good stuff. No use saving it now.

D. Its a Wednesday night just before 7p, and the President is to address the nation out of the blue, on a matter of "great national urgency" and it turns out to be some nuclear cliff walking with a belligerent nation which has just been read the riot act and warned that they better stand down or we're gonna toe the line with nukes. Some political deadline has been issued for 9am the next morning, if its even reached because things are getting Cuban-Missile-Crisis hairy. The military is under full mobilization and defcon one, the interstates are CLOSED and blocked by state troopers to facilitate military movements and that un spools just after the speech is given. Forget about going anywhere, the order is to close all supermarkets to avoid riots and prevent hoarding, with them to be re-opened under secure supervision for rationing under secure control after things go bad if it gets that far, or to keep chaos from taking over if things are ok but folks suspect it may not be over. The power is on, but the stock market is to be closed the next day and schools are shut down.

You...Check the gear, get ready for everything from sudden death to complete bug out under fire, and sit back and watch the news.

E. In a fit of government efficiency, the EBS actually works and without any warning all programming goes off the air and the President suddenly appears or is heard, and announces that full scale nuke exchange is underway between us and the enemy of your choice, China or Russia. Typically ICBMS take 22 minutes but by the time they ID'd the problem and got the Prez to the basement, 7 minutes had passed and it takes a minute or two to process the information. You have less than 15 minutes, and you've just been given the major news and told to "take cover, under ground if possible" . Warning sirens are going off from the local fire department. Date, time and location of your choice, most likely for you in your scenario.

You...

Did I mention MacDill? I'm toast. Play with the kids. A few minutes won't make a difference.


I'm thinking the response to all of these should probably be the same.

G29Reload
08-18-2011, 18:39
Did I mention MacDill? I'm toast. Play with the kids. A few minutes won't make a difference.


I'm thinking the response to all of these should probably be the same.

I think FL would be particularly hard hit. Summer, worse than winter from the heat...power would be completely out everywhere.

No power, no pumping water. No water, die from thirst in the brutal heat.

High water table, no basements. Though with hurricane building codes, some above ground stuff at a distance would survive.

And no air conditioning. AC civilized the South. It wouldnt have half its population without it.

The pop density down there would cause problems, and all the old people would check out with all the conveniences gone and medical overload.

UneasyRider
08-19-2011, 06:13
I think FL would be particularly hard hit. Summer, worse than winter from the heat...power would be completely out everywhere.

No power, no pumping water. No water, die from thirst in the brutal heat.

High water table, no basements. Though with hurricane building codes, some above ground stuff at a distance would survive.

And no air conditioning. AC civilized the South. It wouldnt have half its population without it.

The pop density down there would cause problems, and all the old people would check out with all the conveniences gone and medical overload.

You got that right. We are a penninsula with military bases up and down the coasts, NASA and of course the "mouse in the middle" as targets. We would be fried.

Aceman
08-19-2011, 11:29
I'll survive the summers far more easily than northerners will survive the winter.

(I have lived both)

kirgi08
08-19-2011, 11:32
I grew up 80mi south of you,I'll take the winters.'08.

Warp
08-19-2011, 11:54
I'm drinking the beer while it is still cold, breaking out the chips and salsa and watching it all unfold via the internet, tv, radio. If they are out I'm cranking up the iPod or CD player with some Mototown.



Sounds about right

Also...ROFL at presuming that you know the exact yield and location of detonation of all of the nukes.

G29Reload
08-19-2011, 13:06
Sounds about right

Also...ROFL at presuming that you know the exact yield and location of detonation of all of the nukes.

There are surveys and knowledge of what is in current arsenals. The mainstay of Chinese theater weapons is about a 600kt and some with smaller when MIRV'd. It may also be the most common warhead on the planet. We have many more than they do, but our inventory is more diverse.

Airbursts are used to wipe out a wider area, and make recovery easier if follow up invasion is desired because of reduced toxicity from less fallout.

Ground bursts are use to dig out hardened targets, but throw up more radioactive fallout. They're also more survivable in the immediate area outside the blast zone because they have a less front-loaded bias in the shockwave.

It is our SLBM fleet prowling the oceans that are really what make it safe to sleep at night, and what really keep a war from happening. No matter what, they're the wild cards that make the world keep its temper in check.

Our worst threat and shortest flight time is sub based missiles less than 1000 miles off our coasts, (flight times less than 8-10 mins) and hitting a coastal target (say, Charleston navy base, or worse, Norfolk)

Just as bad, our satellite network being blinded by a laser or otherwise failing to detect a mainland launch in boost phase. OTOH, we've made great strides in hit-to-kill on re-entry vehicles, but this depends on how well they're deployed. Most is in test mode right now, with bases in SoCal, the Marshalls and AK with an eye towards protecting from rogues like N. Korea but certainly handle anything coming from Asia if fully deployed. OTOH, China could blitz and...

Our enemy would also suffer more: While the Russians always leaned towards bigger weapons, our are more toxic, with certain radioactive isotopes added to the warhead that are way more poisonous then ordinary.

Anyone with a capacity to pull this off is also big enough to be a big fat juicy target, without escape and there would be hell to pay.

G29Reload
08-19-2011, 13:22
and of course the "mouse in the middle" as targets.

I don't know that Disney is a target. The idea of targeting civilians in "hostage cities" is an idea that faded from view amongst strategic theater thinking in the end of the Brezhnyev/Andropov era.

Its not that you can count on folks being completely rational in a nuclear war, but the agreements if adhered to are to emphasize military targets. Millions of civvies still will be killed, but taking dead aim at a city where there are no military targets just to wipe out masses of people isnt't the strategy generally being followed. Someone could void that agreement, but there would be consequences equal or greater.

Where Orlando generally could be in trouble is proximity to Cape Canaveral. While we generally limit our launches to peaceful space exploration, military satellites are launched from there; missiles could be, from those facilities, the Air Force has presence (all missiles with range over 100 miles, with under 100 miles delegated to the Army) and the Navy which is just up the coast in Jville with home to a carrier or two, support vessels and patrols the maritime off-limits when boosters are falling after a space launch.

In Floridas favor for an aftermath, the peninsula factor creates steady, clearing winds that would take toxic smoke away to let people breath.

Warp
08-19-2011, 13:26
I don't know that Disney is a target. The idea of targeting civilians in "hostage cities" is an idea that faded from view amongst strategic theater thinking in the end of the Brezhnyev/Andropov era.

Its not that you can count on folks being completely rational in a nuclear war, but the agreements if adhered to are to emphasize military targets. Millions of civvies still will be killed, but taking dead aim at a city where there are no military targets just to wipe out masses of people isnt't the strategy generally being followed. Someone could void that agreement, but there would be consequences equal or greater.

Where Orlando generally could be in trouble is proximity to Cape Canaveral. While we generally limit our launches to peaceful space exploration, military satellites are launched from there; missiles could be, from those facilities, the Air Force has presence (all missiles with range over 100 miles, with under 100 miles delegated to the Army) and the Navy which is just up the coast in Jville with home to a carrier or two, support vessels and patrols the maritime off-limits when boosters are falling after a space launch.

In Floridas favor for an aftermath, the peninsula factor creates steady, clearing winds that would take toxic smoke away to let people breath.


Uh, do you really think that somebody engaged the United States of American in nuclear war will worry about potential 'great consequences' based on the targets they pick?

G29Reload
08-19-2011, 13:52
Uh, do you really think that somebody engaged the United States of American in nuclear war will worry about potential 'great consequences' based on the targets they pick?

Yes. The topic would be "level of retaliation".

If two belligerents stick to offing their opponents military bases and leave cities alone, thats one thing. If one picks off a population center where there was previous agreement to leave civilians out of it, then the agreement is in the crapper and the other side could lose an equal population center.

Aceman
08-20-2011, 10:53
I grew up 80mi south of you,I'll take the winters.'08.

Summer is easy. Work in the morning, work in the evening, find a sea breeze and some shade in the day. Maybe swim/fish. Pick fruit. May-august.

Winter? Battle intense cold minute by minute 24-7 December-February, in a never ending quest for heat and food, hoping supplies hold out, or DIE.

Not a hard decision their for me...

G29Reload
08-20-2011, 14:19
Winter? Battle intense cold minute by minute 24-7 December-February


:rofl::rofl::rofl:

Dude. I've lived in Tampa. I was walking around town in shorts the entire period. There were maybe 5 nights in January where it threatened to get down to within 5 degrees of freezing.

I asked the landlord bout heat, didnt have any! He said, we never need it! The worst, turn your oven on for about 20 minutes, shut it off and leave the door open. that 'll do.

He was right!

Dexters
08-20-2011, 14:31
I'm asking the questions here Private Pyle, can I be in charge for awhile?

Sir, Private Pyle, requesting to speak, sir.

G29Reload
08-20-2011, 14:49
Sir, Private Pyle, requesting to speak, sir.
:supergrin:


What?

MedicOni
08-20-2011, 15:07
Chances are I'd be working on a bus during any major disaster (called in on mandatory callback if I'm not on duty at the time). If for some reason I'm not, get trashed and have fun with friends before everything ends.

Dexters
08-20-2011, 15:45
:supergrin:


What?

Sir, those troops that came of age in the 1980s have been fully exposed to the various methods of nuclear explosions. And more importantly the after affects and what is needed to survive. I would humbly propose to my superior officer that while it is possible to survive a nearby nuclear explosion the question are: for how long after the explosion? Is it something likely enough that you would expend resources to prepare for it? Would you want to survive in a world exposed to even a limited nuclear war?

Here are a few movies from that time.

From the first one (similar to sir's first scenario):

"The futility of preparation and the gruesome effect of invisible fallout are so clear that the film ends by explicitly asking if the survivors would envy the dead."


http://cominganarchy.com/2009/06/17/early-1980s-nuclear-armageddon-films/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGEq9aipTAo

Would the sir like a beer now and some music while waiting for the end?

G29Reload
08-20-2011, 16:54
Sir, those troops that came of age in the 1980s have been fully exposed to the various methods of nuclear explosions. And more importantly the after affects and what is needed to survive. I would humbly propose to my superior officer that while it is possible to survive a nearby nuclear explosion the question are: for how long after the explosion? Is it something likely enough that you would expend resources to prepare for it? Would you want to survive in a world exposed to even a limited nuclear war?

Here are a few movies from that time.

From the first one (similar to sir's first scenario):

"The futility of preparation and the gruesome effect of invisible fallout are so clear that the film ends by explicitly asking if the survivors would envy the dead."


http://cominganarchy.com/2009/06/17/early-1980s-nuclear-armageddon-films/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGEq9aipTAo

Would the sir like a beer now and some music while waiting for the end?

At ease there, private.

That was a line straight out of Dr. Strangelove, would the living envy the dead and not want to go on?

First of all, its a matter of philosophy.

Why not? Here we go:

1. On average, if you are at least 5 miles or more from the hypo center, you likely WILL survive. Yes, the question is, how well?

Again, lots of variables. Do you live in TN, and the exchange was limited to NY, DC and Chicago?

Was the exchange limited to half a dozen major explosions, nationwide? Or was there 200 blasts spread out all over the country?

Are we utterly in the stone age with little hope of rebuiding? Or did we a lose one major city, some missile bases and a couple military installations, with the rest of the country intact?

I don't know that you need to spend a fortune and I wouldnt unless I had unlimited resources. If you're not right in the area, most people already possess a major leg up: A full basement. If you stock a years supply of food (I do, so do many) have at least a months supply of bottled water, med supplies and first aid, you could stay hunkered down and do ok. You need to keep dust masks on, and monitor fallout. if you never got any fallout because of the way the wind blows, you would be cruisin. Fallout radiation drops off after a few weeks.

The .gov has enough underground assets that will survive that you know some kind of attempt will be made to put us back on the rails.

2. Precedent: What two cities have been hit by nuke blasts in war?

What condition are those cities in today?

Yep, they're rebuilt. Many survivors are still around. One person less than 300 yds from the center of Hiroshima was in a fortified basement and did not die till this century.

It wont be pretty or pleasant nor easy. But frankly it will be like europe after WWII. They did have us to assist and no radiation, but the place was obliterated similarly, the core of Germany anyway. Folks lived in burned out basements but they made it. Now look at it!

Dresden has night life. Hiroshima and Nagasaki have malls, suburbs, trees growing, hospitals, etc. People get up every morning there, put their pants on and go to work. They might nervously look up at the sky for aircraft, but hey, who could blame them?

Life came back.


As for me, I love the smell of coffee in the morning and get up just for that alone. The intellectual curiosity to solve mysteries, to see what comes after. The idea of finding out how it all turns out.

I'll give it a go. I'll go till I can't. but not trying isnt an option, and quitting = Fail.

kirgi08
08-20-2011, 17:03
:goodpost:

Dexters
08-20-2011, 19:23
At ease there, private.

That was a line straight out of Dr. Strangelove, would the living envy the dead and not want to go on?

First of all, its a matter of philosophy.

Why not? Here we go:

1. On average, if you are at least 5 miles or more from the hypo center, you likely WILL survive. Yes, the question is, how well?


It depends upon the size of the bomb - most of the intercontinental bombs will be over 1 megaton and closer to 3. Five miles would not escape the blast, fire and radiation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Republic_of_China_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction

China has stolen our technology so they will have good bombs.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/395301.stm
The Cox Report into China's nuclear expionage in the USA said that Beijing acquired details of its most sophisticated current warhead - the W-88.

The movie shows that the bomb itself is one aspect but, blast, fire storms and radiation add to the death rate.



Again, lots of variables. Do you live in TN, and the exchange was limited to NY, DC and Chicago?


If it is limited to those places and neither of us are there then it isn't the situation you laid out.


Was the exchange limited to half a dozen major explosions, nationwide? Or was there 200 blasts spread out all over the country?

Are we utterly in the stone age with little hope of rebuiding? Or did we a lose one major city, some missile bases and a couple military installations, with the rest of the country intact?


We will not know - EMP will fry electronics.



I don't know that you need to spend a fortune and I wouldnt unless I had unlimited resources. If you're not right in the area, most people already possess a major leg up: A full basement. If you stock a years supply of food (I do, so do many) have at least a months supply of bottled water, med supplies and first aid, you could stay hunkered down and do ok. You need to keep dust masks on, and monitor fallout. if you never got any fallout because of the way the wind blows, you would be cruisin. Fallout radiation drops off after a few weeks.


Many have said they do not have a basement. Even if they have a basement they have to survive the blast, fire, lack of air to breathe, radiation and getting out of the debris piled on top of the basement. So, to be sure you would need a fallout shelter with all the bells and whistles.


The .gov has enough underground assets that will survive that you know some kind of attempt will be made to put us back on the rails.


The .gov might come back but the question is will you.


2. Precedent: What two cities have been hit by nuke blasts in war?

What condition are those cities in today?

Yep, they're rebuilt. Many survivors are still around. One person less than 300 yds from the center of Hiroshima was in a fortified basement and did not die till this century.


Those were very small bombs and it was the end of the war not the beginning. Hiroshima was 12 -15 KT, not close to the 200KT in your #1.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_weapon_yield





It wont be pretty or pleasant nor easy. But frankly it will be like europe after WWII. They did have us to assist and no radiation, but the place was obliterated similarly, the core of Germany anyway. Folks lived in burned out basements but they made it. Now look at it!

Dresden has night life. Hiroshima and Nagasaki have malls, suburbs, trees growing, hospitals, etc. People get up every morning there, put their pants on and go to work. They might nervously look up at the sky for aircraft, but hey, who could blame them?

Life came back.


No nuclear bombs were dropped on Europe. Comments such as the above do not acknowledge the difference between conventional and nuclear bombs.


As for me, I love the smell of coffee in the morning and get up just for that alone. The intellectual curiosity to solve mysteries, to see what comes after. The idea of finding out how it all turns out.

I'll give it a go. I'll go till I can't. but not trying isnt an option, and quitting = Fail.

I am very similar. But, I think the smell after a nuclear bomb will be that of burning flesh, fires and diarrhea.

The first movie I quoted sums it up fairly well.

G29Reload
08-20-2011, 21:15
It depends upon the size of the bomb - most of the intercontinental bombs will be over 1 megaton and closer to 3. Five miles would not escape the blast, fire and radiation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Republic_of_China_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction

China has stolen our technology so they will have good bombs.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/395301.stm
The Cox Report into China's nuclear expionage in the USA said that Beijing acquired details of its most sophisticated current warhead - the W-88.

The movie shows that the bomb itself is one aspect but, blast, fire storms and radiation add to the death rate.

Some of this updates my information. Interesting find.

Some upgrades to their technology, but the big picture painted is that:
-Their prime interest is regional and in their sphere of influence.
-they have a solid and credible inventory, but a limit of 20 missiles that can reach us mostly defensively if we attack first:
a. The heavy hitters are still 30yr old liquid fueled that take an hour or more to ready for firing, which we could detect in advance and if acted upon immediately could be destroyed before they launch;
b. Our inventory heavily outweighs theirs and we could overwhelm. They just would not survive retaliation if acting alone.
- their subs are a wild card. They've already lost one, but if they had one sneak in between HI and the west coast we've got trouble.
-equally wildcard, when their missile sub or two take to sea, our hunter-killer attack subs may be tracking with an ability to neutralize it.

I'm thinking now China is there but still less of a threat. It would be their suicide to launch.


If it is limited to those places and neither of us are there then it isn't the situation you laid out.

I was talking further possibilities. It was up to the responses to the original scenarios to see what our people would do, if they have preps or plans, based on.




We will not know - EMP will fry electronics.

No it won't. Unless prefaced with an EMP-specific attack, ancillary EMP in a localized explosion at conventional burst altitudes will only cause local area-wide EMP that is more likely to just blackout comms for a few minutes.

It may be wise to include an EMP attempt in the first wave, but that also risks the electronics in your inbound flurry causing detonation failure in your other re-entry vehicles. The electronics package that detonates your other warheads in-theater is ALSO at risk.


Many have said they do not have a basement. Even if they have a basement they have to survive the blast, fire, lack of air to breathe, radiation and getting out of the debris piled on top of the basement. So, to be sure you would need a fallout shelter with all the bells and whistles.

Well, yes, among our respondents here. Country wide, a basement is a popular feature. tornado country has great assets that could work wonders.


The .gov might come back but the question is will you.

We're dealing with a lot of "ifs" here. The concept is, your survivability odds go up with a government mobilizing assets to aid its population, as opposed to...not.


Those were very small bombs and it was the end of the war not the beginning. Hiroshima was 12 -15 KT, not close to the 200KT in your #1.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_weapon_yield .

The destruction is similar, the larger yield simply devastates a larger area.

I believe there is a point of diminishing returns as the weapons get larger, with only ground burst gaining a lot in ability to destroy subsurface assets.

A nuclear exchange would be so devastating that the start would ALSO likely be the end.




No nuclear bombs were dropped on Europe. Comments such as the above do not acknowledge the difference between conventional and nuclear bombs. .


The effect was the same. + 2 weeks and it will be.

Many acknowledged the firebombing of Dresden and Tokyo produced similar or even greater casualties. The difference is the radiation, which fades over time.



I am very similar. But, I think the smell after a nuclear bomb will be that of burning flesh, fires and diarrhea.

The first movie I quoted sums it up fairly well.

Again, if you're that close you likely will not survive. I'm talking about farther out. If you miss the gamma burst, if you take immediate precaution to deal with radiation or miss it due to winds, you might make out ok.

If IF IF!

G19freak
08-20-2011, 23:54
Live 2 miles from Stratcom----I won't feel a thing--just fried and dead.

Dexters
08-21-2011, 05:52
Some of this updates my information. Interesting find.

Some upgrades to their technology, but the big picture painted is that:
-Their prime interest is regional and in their sphere of influence.
-they have a solid and credible inventory, but a limit of 20 missiles that can reach us mostly defensively if we attack first:
a. The heavy hitters are still 30yr old liquid fueled that take an hour or more to ready for firing, which we could detect in advance and if acted upon immediately could be destroyed before they launch;
b. Our inventory heavily outweighs theirs and we could overwhelm. They just would not survive retaliation if acting alone.
- their subs are a wild card. They've already lost one, but if they had one sneak in between HI and the west coast we've got trouble.
-equally wildcard, when their missile sub or two take to sea, our hunter-killer attack subs may be tracking with an ability to neutralize it.

I'm thinking now China is there but still less of a threat. It would be their suicide to launch.



I was talking further possibilities. It was up to the responses to the original scenarios to see what our people would do, if they have preps or plans, based on.



No it won't. Unless prefaced with an EMP-specific attack, ancillary EMP in a localized explosion at conventional burst altitudes will only cause local area-wide EMP that is more likely to just blackout comms for a few minutes.

It may be wise to include an EMP attempt in the first wave, but that also risks the electronics in your inbound flurry causing detonation failure in your other re-entry vehicles. The electronics package that detonates your other warheads in-theater is ALSO at risk.



Well, yes, among our respondents here. Country wide, a basement is a popular feature. tornado country has great assets that could work wonders.



We're dealing with a lot of "ifs" here. The concept is, your survivability odds go up with a government mobilizing assets to aid its population, as opposed to...not.



The destruction is similar, the larger yield simply devastates a larger area.

I believe there is a point of diminishing returns as the weapons get larger, with only ground burst gaining a lot in ability to destroy subsurface assets.

A nuclear exchange would be so devastating that the start would ALSO likely be the end.




The effect was the same. + 2 weeks and it will be.

Many acknowledged the firebombing of Dresden and Tokyo produced similar or even greater casualties. The difference is the radiation, which fades over time.



Again, if you're that close you likely will not survive. I'm talking about farther out. If you miss the gamma burst, if you take immediate precaution to deal with radiation or miss it due to winds, you might make out ok.

If IF IF!

You've lost me. You've gone from you and me surviving and your scenarios to general ideas.
Also, you don't seem to acknoledge the differences between current nuclear and conventional bombs from the past.

Sir, private Pyle will be taking leave, sir.

G29Reload
08-21-2011, 07:56
You've lost me. You've gone from you and me surviving and your scenarios to general ideas.

I was acknowledging your questions with thoughtful responses.


Also, you don't seem to acknoledge the differences between current nuclear and conventional bombs from the past.

No I addressed that specifically. After the radiation fades, you're still left with conventional destruction, on a widespread scale. If you can live below ground with sufficient mass between you and radiation which decreases steadily for a few weeks, you can make it. It depends on where you are, how far and which way the wind blows.

Many in the post-bombing survey groups in WWII admitted that some firebombing raids in Tokyo killed more people in one night than Hiroshima did. The differences are the complications from radiation.



Sir, private Pyle will be taking leave, sir.

Clean the latrines with a toothbrush before you take your ball and go home. Dissmissed!
:supergrin:

G29Reload
08-21-2011, 07:58
Live 2 miles from Stratcom----I won't feel a thing--just fried and dead.

Well just think, if you're in Omaha there won't be anyone left to enforce gun control. :rofl:

AK_Stick
08-21-2011, 08:55
China has stolen our technology so they will have good bombs.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/395301.stm
The Cox Report into China's nuclear expionage in the USA said that Beijing acquired details of its most sophisticated current warhead - the W-88.


They've stolen some of the details of the W-88, that does not give them the W-88 warhead, or the delivery systems. They still do not have our precision delivery methods, nor our warheads.



We will not know - EMP will fry electronics.


EMP understanding fail. EMP is not the boogyman that LG1 and some others here have made it out to be. 1 second after is a book, and not based in fact. EMP will not kick us back to the stone age my 2003 truck will be driving minutes after the blast. As will millions of other UNMODIFIED vehicles.





No nuclear bombs were dropped on Europe. Comments such as the above do not acknowledge the difference between conventional and nuclear bombs.


Dresden was conventionally bombed, and the devastation was on par with Hiroshima and Nagasaki. That was the comparison he was making, not that nuclear weapons were dropped on Europe.

G19freak
08-21-2011, 09:12
Bellevue actually--I'm so close to groud zero I sit on my back deck and watch the annual air show in August.

Not much gun control here--the biggest job Bellevue PD has to do is catch speeders and drunk drivers cause nothing much else happens in this town.

We're in the metro area but this place still pretty much has the small town feel.

Aceman
08-21-2011, 22:13
:rofl::rofl::rofl:

Dude. I've lived in Tampa. I was walking around town in shorts the entire period. There were maybe 5 nights in January where it threatened to get down to within 5 degrees of freezing.

I asked the landlord bout heat, didnt have any! He said, we never need it! The worst, turn your oven on for about 20 minutes, shut it off and leave the door open. that 'll do.

He was right!

I was referring to the choice between being ready for surviving the North vs the South.

Yeah - we DON'T have winter. It's 9 months of what most people call summer...and then the really hot season. Which is infinitely more survivable than most of the north's cold season!

G29Reload
08-22-2011, 15:58
I was referring to the choice between being ready for surviving the North vs the South.

Yeah - we DON'T have winter. It's 9 months of what most people call summer...and then the really hot season. Which is infinitely more survivable than most of the north's cold season!

Not QUITE as bad as San Diego, but a bunch of homeless problems. Man. Sleeping on the steps at the waterfront on BayShore. Not just some drunk kid after Gasparilla, but some skeevy dude sackin out. They have those swim steps like for people who REALLY want to swim in upper Tampa bay? ieeewwwwww.

Well above high tide line they are great for hobo nappys. ZZZZzzzzzzzzzzz

Kromedome
08-28-2011, 15:40
I live within 10 miles of one reactor and less than 6 from another. Good bye all! It was cool, cheers.

fourdeuce2
08-29-2011, 14:28
"Do not go away and think about this, because had this been an actual emergency you would not have that luxury."

Actually, in most emergencies, unless you are talking about being dead in minutes, taking time to think is not a luxury. It is a necessity, and often one of the best things you can do. Running around in a panic doesn't do anybody any good and just wastes time.
Of course, taking time to think BEFORE the emergency often helps prevent the emergency from becoming an emergency.:whistling:

G29Reload
08-29-2011, 15:23
"Do not go away and think about this, because had this been an actual emergency you would not have that luxury."

Actually, in most emergencies, unless you are talking about being dead in minutes, :

Uh, yeah, thats' what we're talking about. Mostly.

In other words, react on the spot with your previously thought out response to survive. As though it were actually happening.