Owie!! [Archive] - Glock Talk

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WiskyT
08-18-2011, 16:46
I don't know what model SIG this was, but it was a 9mm and had a plastic frame. This happened last night. I was in the training room which is adjacent to the range when it happened. It happened about 1/2 way through a box of the shooter's reloads. The shooter told me he was using a 115 grain plated bullet, 4.3 grains of Tight Group, and a standard primer. I didn't catch what brand of brass he was using, but I don't think it would have mattered.

The shooter was very lucky. He got a couple of lacerations on his face, but went back to shooting with a different gun. There was no damage to his shooting glasses. If he was struck in his eyes, without glasses, he would have had serious eye damage.

Also, our range just did some improvements about a year ago that included Lexan partitions between shooting stations. Without these partitions, the shooters on either side could have been seriously injured.

It is my uneducated guess that this was a significantly overcharged round. It was loaded on a Square Deal B and the shooter has been reloading for about a year and a half. I don't know what sequence of events could cause this with a SDB as I have no experience with it. This was not a simple case blow-out.

I'm sorry for my crappy cellphone pics:

http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee460/Wiskyt/0817011942.jpg

http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee460/Wiskyt/0817011942a.jpg

WiskyT
08-18-2011, 16:49
This is the entire case. The head is on the right. The front portion of the case is normal, but the body of the case is collapsed backwards like an accordian.

http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee460/Wiskyt/0817012004.jpg

http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee460/Wiskyt/0817012003a.jpg

atakawow
08-18-2011, 16:50
Titegroup and overcharge...oh boy!

IBTF (in before the Fred).

WiskyT
08-18-2011, 16:52
This is from the rear of the case. It's the case head. The hole is the primer pocket. You can see the head itself is actually split in two.

http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee460/Wiskyt/0817012004a.jpg

http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee460/Wiskyt/0817012003.jpg

GTRhino24
08-18-2011, 16:54
I load on a SDB and a double charge is pretty easy on one if you lose your focus. It's auto indexing. I've had primer misfeeds at times and had to back up the press. If you aren't careful, you can get two charges into one case. That's most likely what happened here. It happened to me my first week of handloading with Power Pistol in my G20SF. Only the Glock sustained about $35 in damages and one magazine rather than total nuke. Some burns and smashed thumbs from the pressure blast escaping under the slide. This guy was very fortunate he didn't lose some pieces of fingers/hands on that one.

GTRhino24
08-18-2011, 16:58
Double charge of Power Pistol 10mm. New brass. Looks very similar doesn't it? Cracked trigger, blew out the extractor, and cracked the mag release. Glocks are tough. $35 bucks and hasn't skipped a beat since.
218474

Colorado4Wheel
08-18-2011, 17:02
I thought you got a auto indexing press to be safer? Hmm, Kinda why I say autoindexing isn't safer. Only makes some people feel safer.

GTRhino24
08-18-2011, 17:06
I thought you got a auto indexing press to be safer? Hmm, Kinda why I say autoindexing isn't safer. Only makes some people feel safer.

Me? Nah, I got one because I only plan on loading in one caliber and it was the most cost effective Dillon. I no longer allow my wife in the basement when I load. I try to explain everything I am doing and it causes me to make mistakes. Also installed a flashlight shining down into the case.

Colorado4Wheel
08-18-2011, 17:09
I wasn't really referring to you. Just all those guys who just have to have a LnL over the 550 because the 550 doesn't autoindex. It's pretty easy to screw up a auto indexing press as well.

GTRhino24
08-18-2011, 17:17
I wasn't really referring to you. Just all those guys who just have to have a LnL over the 550 because the 550 doesn't autoindex. It's pretty easy to screw up a auto indexing press as well.

If I had it to do over again, I would have waited another month and got the 550. I mean once you get in a zone, the auto indexing is a nice feature, but it was VERY easy to double charge a case especially if one station isn't functioning properly.

Zombie Steve
08-18-2011, 17:18
Titegroup and overcharge...oh boy!

IBTF (in before the Fred).

Oh no you di'int.

http://goofygifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/funny-gifs-oh-no-you-didnt.gif

alank2
08-18-2011, 17:21
Hi,

I thought you got a auto indexing press to be safer? Hmm, Kinda why I say autoindexing isn't safer. Only makes some people feel safer.

Little problems where you assume the error was X when you don't take a look to see it was Y, Distractions, Interruptions, Boredom in the middle of a run - these are all very real dangers when loading.

One rule I always live by is to look in each case before you put the bullet on it to see if it has (1) no powder or (2) double powder. I also post weigh on a digital scale, but that is me just being extra careful.

Good luck,

Alan

unclebob
08-18-2011, 17:22
I wasn't really referring to you. Just all those guys who just have to have a LnL over the 550 because the 550 doesn't autoindex. It's pretty easy to screw up a auto indexing press as well.

But it is a lot easier to screw up if you back up the press. The best way is to take the cases out of the press dump the power and start over.
That is one thing I like about a Glock. The mag is designed to blow out to relieve a lot of the pressure.

unclebob
08-18-2011, 17:26
If I had it to do over again, I would have waited another month and got the 550. I mean once you get in a zone, the auto indexing is a nice feature, but it was VERY easy to double charge a case especially if one station isn't functioning properly.

What press did you get and how is it easier to double charge on an auto indexing press

fredj338
08-18-2011, 17:38
Titegroup and overcharge...oh boy!

IBTF (in before the Fred).

If the shooter/reloader had been tuning into my anti TG tirades, maybe he could have saved his pistol.:crying:
One rule I always live by is to look in each case before you put the bullet on it to see if it has (1) no powder or (2) double powder.
My biggest gripe against TG, it's diff, especially in larger cases, to visually verify the charge is correct. It can even be missed in the tiny 9mm case if you re just pulling the handle.

Steve Koski
08-18-2011, 17:51
Could also be a squib followed by a live round. I've seen a squib take apart a gun just like that.

I've also seen a double charge loaded on a Dillon 1050, toasted a 1911 right next to me. Auto indexing seems to reduce the likelihood of a double charge somewhat, but it doesn't eliminate it.

Koski

Tpro
08-18-2011, 18:04
I load on a SDB and a double charge is pretty easy on one if you lose your focus. It's auto indexing. I've had primer misfeeds at times and had to back up the press. If you aren't careful, you can get two charges into one case. That's most likely what happened here. It happened to me my first week of handloading with Power Pistol in my G20SF. Only the Glock sustained about $35 in damages and one magazine rather than total nuke. Some burns and smashed thumbs from the pressure blast escaping under the slide. This guy was very fortunate he didn't lose some pieces of fingers/hands on that one.

Once again the press is taking the blame for OPERATOR ERROR. And then the blasting on the LnL takes off. Juvenile at best. Time for a reality check. It was OPERATOR ERROR, not an autoindexing press that double charged the case. And the operator was using a powder KNOWN to be touchy (IDK how he could not, it's all over the interweb) so this is the expected result. It's funny it happened with a Dillon and there are still people out there taking pot shots at other presses:whistling:.

Silly it is..........

Colorado4Wheel
08-18-2011, 18:04
But it is a lot easier to screw up if you back up the press. The best way is to take the cases out of the press dump the power and start over.
That is one thing I like about a Glock. The mag is designed to blow out to relieve a lot of the pressure.

Best way is to not make mistakes. What maters is how you deal with the inevitable problems that do happen. Autoindexing is pretty much foolproof if you always do what you say. Reality is people don't do it like that and that is when autoindexing guys get in trouble. People with a manual index press stay more alert is my theory. I always seated the bullet in station 2 so it was next to impossible to make a double charge. I just like the simplicity of the 550. I have found it to be the most reliable press I have ever owned. Thats means you have less times you have to stop and clear the press and less potential for problems when you try and get going again.

unclebob
08-18-2011, 18:12
Could also be a squib followed by a live round. I've seen a squib take apart a gun just like that.

I've also seen a double charge loaded on a Dillon 1050, toasted a 1911 right next to me. Auto indexing seems to reduce the likelihood of a double charge somewhat, but it doesn't eliminate it.

Koski

About the only way that you can get a double charge on an auto indexing press with the new fail safe system that has not been modified. Is for the reloader either backs up the shell plate. Takes the case out and puts it back under the powder measure. Has the old style powder measure with the springs and double strokes the press. You can very easy get a squib load if you donít go all the way up with the ram. But it is all most impossible for the press being the cause. The only way the press could be the cause is the shell plate not advancing. I think even Ray Charles could find that one.

Boxerglocker
08-18-2011, 18:13
To actually manage a double powder drop is not the presses fault, it's the operator making a mistake in troubleshooting, moving cases around. You can't other than manually index the shellplate in either the SDB or XL650 backwards. Auto indexing IMO is safer if you don't take it for granted and properly assess the situation … if you have an issue such as a misfed or stuck primer. I have loaded quite a number of rounds on the SDB and no the XL650. Issues will happen to break your rhythm, the most common I find is a piece of crimped pocket brass gets by you presort and your unable to seat it.
I purposefully decap size 6-10 pieces of extra brass every loading session and keep it standing by in a little bin next to the press while loading. As I'm loading and I try to seat a primer should I feel the slightest bit of unusual resistance… I stop check and usually find that it's a crimped one, remove it from the 2nd station, insert a previously decapped and size one, do a double check on the other stations, prime and continue on.

El_Ron1
08-18-2011, 18:20
Any of the Lee presses could have blown that gun up at a fraction of the cost.

Hoser
08-18-2011, 18:22
Yup. Titegroup is 100% to blame. Always is. Even when using Blue Dot or Clays.

Zombie Steve
08-18-2011, 18:25
Any of the Lee presses could have blown that gun up at a fraction of the cost.

Quoted for truth.

TH3180
08-18-2011, 18:27
That's why I like using Power Pistol for 9mm. If I double a case I would have powder spilling everywhere.

dougader
08-18-2011, 19:29
Titegroup and overcharge...oh boy!

IBTF (in before the Fred).

:rofl:

Go get 'em Fred!

GioaJack
08-18-2011, 19:31
Best way is to not make mistakes. What maters is how you deal with the inevitable problems that do happen. Autoindexing is pretty much foolproof if you always do what you say. Reality is people don't do it like that and that is when autoindexing guys get in trouble. People with a manual index press stay more alert is my theory. I always seated the bullet in station 2 so it was next to impossible to make a double charge. I just like the simplicity of the 550. I have found it to be the most reliable press I have ever owned. Thats means you have less times you have to stop and clear the press and less potential for problems when you try and get going again.


Well hell, when you owned a 550 it was only the second press you'd ever had and the first one was a Thigh Master... one of 'em had to be more reliable. :whistling:


Jack

dougader
08-18-2011, 19:34
Any of the Lee presses could have blown that gun up at a fraction of the cost.

Another funny... :rofl:

GTRhino24
08-18-2011, 19:34
I didn't blame the press for anything. It was operator error for sure. I had to back the press up for a misfeed on the primer feed. My wife was watching so I let her set the bullets on for a few rounds. She didn't know what to look for. I took the blame. Nobody got hurt. Some of you people are helpful, others just like to pretend they've never made a mistake.

Tpro
08-18-2011, 19:35
Yup. Titegroup is 100% to blame. Always is. Even when using Blue Dot or Clays.

I wasn't blaming TG. That is the same as blaming the press. It was the OPERATORS fault. Not the press. Not the powder. The OPERATOR. Pretty simple. And yes, he could have done it cheaper on a Lee, faster on a 650 more efficently on a LnL AP and with more stations on a 1050 (haters see if you can locate the humor/sarcasm here).

Tpro
08-18-2011, 19:37
Well hell, when you owned a 550 it was only the second press you'd ever had and the first one was a Thigh Master... one of 'em had to be more reliable. :whistling:


Jack

You may have been absent for a while but your still pretty dang quick for an old fart (yes I watched the vids).

norton
08-18-2011, 19:54
I didn't blame the press for anything. It was operator error for sure. I had to back the press up for a misfeed on the primer feed. My wife was watching so I let her set the bullets on for a few rounds. She didn't know what to look for. I took the blame. Nobody got hurt. Some of you people are helpful, others just like to pretend they've never made a mistake.



I'd blame the wife.
But that's just me.

fredj338
08-18-2011, 21:37
Yup. Titegroup is 100% to blame. Always is. Even when using Blue Dot or Clays.

Well while I would like to blame the TG, it is the fault of the reloader, 100%. The TG just makes it easier to make the mistake. SO why saddle yourself w/ a potential problem when there are other & for most applications, better powder choices.:dunno:

ron59
08-19-2011, 05:40
Nobody got hurt. Some of you people are helpful, others just like to pretend they've never made a mistake.

40,000 rounds in just over 2 years.
Not one squib.
And certainly not one double-charge.

There's no room for mistakes when reloading. I have a process I follow when I'm reloading on my 550B. I pull handle, index shellplate, insert case then bullet the same way everytime. If the slightest little thing differs, I stop, analyze what's going on, make sure of where everything is, and only then proceed with caution. Once it's good to go and I rotate that shellplate again, it's back to my regular process.

AND I use TiteGroup. :tongueout:

Tpro
08-19-2011, 10:29
40,000 rounds in just over 2 years.
Not one squib.
And certainly not one double-charge.

There's no room for mistakes when reloading. I have a process I follow when I'm reloading on my 550B. I pull handle, index shellplate, insert case then bullet the same way everytime. If the slightest little thing differs, I stop, analyze what's going on, make sure of where everything is, and only then proceed with caution. Once it's good to go and I rotate that shellplate again, it's back to my regular process.

AND I use TiteGroup. :tongueout:


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

It appears that some people (not necessarily anyone here...speaking in general terms now) do not realize what they are exposing themselves and others to when reloading. The OP (was it WT?...I'm not going to go back and look) pointed out the scenario where the shooter and others could have been hurt. That's serious business. It's not the press or powder. It was a human that let his guard down or simply made a mistake. None of us are perfect for sure. But sloppy reloaders are poor reloaders.

El_Ron1
08-19-2011, 11:26
Never is a long time.

fredj338
08-19-2011, 13:27
AND I use TiteGroup. :tongueout:
Then again, you are a risk taker.:whistling:

RRTX11
08-19-2011, 13:47
I DON'T use TiteGroup, therefore I am GUARANTEED to never have this problem on my 550B.

Steve Koski
08-19-2011, 14:17
http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee304/SteveKoski/GP%20Pics%20C/howaglockworks.gif

Steve Koski
08-19-2011, 14:17
And their Sigs.

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee304/SteveKoski/GP%20Pics%20C/glockkB.jpg

mnhogrider
08-19-2011, 14:25
http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee304/SteveKoski/GP%20Pics%20C/howaglockworks.gif

:rofl::rofl:

Must have been a 10MM double charge.