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Skykings2
08-19-2011, 07:56
New to the board and just asking if any others observe the 7th day Sabbath and feast as instructed in Lev 23 .While not being jewish we understand who Israel is and our part in it.I'm looking forward to a restful sabbath for sure.

Vic Hays
08-19-2011, 08:49
I enjoy the Sabbath because it was given to all men at creation.
It also was included in the Ten Commandments to honor the Creator God.
I don't keep the feast days as I am not a circumcized Jew who observes all of the ceremonial law which was added after the promise was given to Abraham .

Galatians 3:16-18 Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say , "And to seeds," as of many, but as of one, "and to your Seed," who is Christ. And this I say that the law which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ, that it should make the p[romise of no effect. For if the inheritance is of the law, it is no longer a promise, but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

Simply put, Abraham did not keep the feast days. There is nothing wrong with keeping them, but they are not necessary for salvation. Circumcised Jews keep them and some belong to my Church.

Skykings2
08-19-2011, 09:16
good to meet you Vic
the whole feast thing can be tough to handle at times ,Judah was only one of the 12 tribes of Israel and the statutes and judgments and blessings,curses,commandments,covenants were given to all the commonwealth of Israel and those of the nations that came out with them .
I always perk up when I see words like forever ,and "in your generations, perpetual which lead me to believe they're as binding now as then and well I did enter in to a blood covenant ,as I think you have , and that is a binding agreement forever.
Salvation is great ,however there are terms that go along with that and the New Covenant church wants to portray only the nice warm fuzzy "let Jesus into your heart" mentality.Once he's there the real work begins and that's one of obedience to Yahshua .The Son came to lead us back to the Father..

off road
08-19-2011, 09:39
One cannot even pretend to be a commandment keeper, if one is ignoring the 4th commandment (Saturday...the 7th day of the week).

FifthFreedom
08-19-2011, 10:51
One cannot even pretend to be a commandment keeper, if one is ignoring the 4th commandment (Saturday...the 7th day of the week).

..Or circumcision, or T'filin, or dietary Laws, or....

Roering
08-19-2011, 11:09
Kept the sabbath last week! Didn't do a thing on Saturday except hung out at the pool and smoked some baby back ribs. Of course I ate the ribs later in the day so...........

FifthFreedom
08-19-2011, 11:25
Kept the sabbath last week! Didn't do a thing on Saturday except hung out at the pool and smoked some baby back ribs. Of course I ate the ribs later in the day so...........

You do realize cooking is prohibited on the Sabbath nu?

Roering
08-19-2011, 12:15
You do realize cooking is prohibited on the Sabbath nu?

Who said anything about cooking, I was "smoking".

Roering
08-19-2011, 12:28
Simply put, Abraham did not keep the feast days.

He may not have kept the Sabbath yet either, it was not a commandment yet right?

achysklic
08-19-2011, 14:07
I am a Sabbath Keeper and also keep all of Gods annual Holy Days.

I am not however a SDA nor Jewish :)

Vic Hays
08-19-2011, 14:21
He may not have kept the Sabbath yet either, it was not a commandment yet right?

That is a possibility. The Sabbath certainly existed in the Garden of Eden as a special day that God set apart as holy. What people are having problems with is seperating what is a requirement from God for everyone and what was required of the literal flesh nation of Israel.

God included the Sabbath Commandment with the moral laws that He wrote with His own finger. The implication is that the Creator is to be remembered for His creation and His redemption. We are to trust that we can stop working on Sabbath and God will take care of us. This is a moral requirement.

Abraham was actually a Gentile when the promise was first made to him. The promise was made in Genesis 12 and the circumcision was required Genesis 17:10.

As I posted earlier, Galatians 3:16-18 shows that the Gentiles are not required to observe the ceremonial law that was given to the Jews later.

The early Church kept the Seventh-day Sabbath and was composed of Jews and believing Gentiles. When Sabbath keeping was abolished it put a wall between the Gentiles and the Jews. The Seventh-day Adventist Church has many Jews and even Jewish Congregations because this problem does not exist for us.

You claim to want unity. God has His plan as can be seen from the book of Ephesians.

Ephesians 2:11-15 Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles in the flesh-who are called Uncircumcision by what is called the Circumcision made in the flesh by hands- that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. For He is our peace, who has broken down the middle wall of seperation, having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, and that he might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, therby putting to death the enmity. And He came and preached peace to you who were afar off and to those who were near. For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father.

Roering
08-19-2011, 14:39
Col 2: 16-18
"Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ."

Considering Paul's background and that this is inspired writing, I'll agree.

FifthFreedom
08-19-2011, 14:48
Who said anything about cooking, I was "smoking".

It's still "cooking" and where there is smoke there would be fire or no?

FifthFreedom
08-19-2011, 14:51
That is a possibility. The Sabbath certainly existed in the Garden of Eden as a special day that God set apart as holy. What people are having problems with is seperating what is a requirement from God for everyone and what was required of the literal flesh nation of Israel.

God included the Sabbath Commandment with the moral laws that He wrote with His own finger. The implication is that the Creator is to be remembered for His creation and His redemption. We are to trust that we can stop working on Sabbath and God will take care of us. This is a moral requirement.

Abraham was actually a Gentile when the promise was first made to him. The promise was made in Genesis 12 and the circumcision was required Genesis 17:10.

As I posted earlier, Galatians 3:16-18 shows that the Gentiles are not required to observe the ceremonial law that was given to the Jews later.

The early Church kept the Seventh-day Sabbath and was composed of Jews and believing Gentiles. When Sabbath keeping was abolished it put a wall between the Gentiles and the Jews. The Seventh-day Adventist Church has many Jews and even Jewish Congregations because this problem does not exist for us.

You claim to want unity. God has His plan as can be seen from the book of Ephesians.

Ephesians 2:11-15 Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles in the flesh-who are called Uncircumcision by what is called the Circumcision made in the flesh by hands- that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. For He is our peace, who has broken down the middle wall of seperation, having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, and that he might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, therby putting to death the enmity. And He came and preached peace to you who were afar off and to those who were near. For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father.


What exactly are these "ceremonial" Laws you keep referring to? All of The Law was given at Sinai, both are just as important.
The Holy days for example..Yom Kippur, Pesach, Rosh Hashanah, Sukkot. These laws were commanded and they are "for all time" Whether "paul" thinks they are important or not isn't relevant. Yet you are correct, they are not for non-Jews.

BradD
08-19-2011, 14:59
Col 2: 16-18
"Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ."

Considering Paul's background and that this is inspired writing, I'll agree.
I agree with you, and you forgot to mention the whole book of Galatians...

After reading a lot of threads like this one in here, I spent a month studying Galatians, and I really don't see where some of you fellows are coming from (except FifthFreedom, of course). Paul wore out the topic of keeping the Mosaic Law either as a part of justification or as something one does after being justified.

Yeah, I know, one or three of you guys will bombard with three or four pages of quoted text :tongueout: but I verified what I'd concluded by studying what some experts like MacArthur, McGee, and Jeremiah think about the subject--same as I'd concluded.

Salvation = by grace through faith. Sanctification by the Spirit also--if you can't get to salvation by obeying the Law, what makes you think you can stay there by obeying it? Makes no sense. See below.

Galatians 3 (NASB)
1 You foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified? 2 This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? 3 Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? 4 Did you suffer so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain? 5 So then, does He who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?

Vic Hays
08-19-2011, 15:11
What exactly are these "ceremonial" Laws you keep referring to? All of The Law was given at Sinai, both are just as important.
The Holy days for example..Yom Kippur, Pesach, Rosh Hashanah, Sukkot. These laws were commanded and they are "for all time" Whether "paul" thinks they are important or not isn't relevant. Yet you are correct, they are not for non-Jews.

God Himself seperated the two laws. One was written by God Himself, the other by Moses.

The Early Christian Church made a distinction.

Acts 21:19-25 Whe he had greeted them, he told in detail those things which God had done among the Gentiles through his ministry. And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord. And they said to him, "You see, brother, how many myriads of Jews there are who have believed, and they are all zealous for the law; "but they have been informed about you that you teach all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children nor to walk according to the customs. What then? The assembly must certainly meet, for they will hear that you have come. "Therefore do what we tell you. We have four men who have taken a vow. "Take them and be purified with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads, and that all may know that those things of which they were informed concerning you are nothing, but that you yourself also walk orderly and keep the law. "But concerning the Gentiles who believe, we have written and decided that they should keep themselves from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality."

achysklic
08-19-2011, 15:16
God Himself seperated the two laws. One was written by God Himself, the other by Moses.

The Early Christian Church made a distinction.

Acts 21:19-25 Whe he had greeted them, he told in detail those things which God had done among the Gentiles through his ministry. And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord. And they said to him, "You see, brother, how many myriads of Jews there are who have believed, and they are all zealous for the law; "but they have been informed about you that you teach all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children nor to walk according to the customs. What then? The assembly must certainly meet, for they will hear that you have come. "Therefore do what we tell you. We have four men who have taken a vow. "Take them and be purified with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads, and that all may know that those things of which they were informed concerning you are nothing, but that you yourself also walk orderly and keep the law. "But concerning the Gentiles who believe, we have written and decided that they should keep themselves from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality."


Vic, read Lev. 23 after doing that I ask.....Who's laws are they? Who gave them? And for how long are the laws for? Also who are the laws given too?

FifthFreedom
08-19-2011, 15:19
I agree with you, and you forgot to mention the whole book of Galatians...

After reading a lot of threads like this one in here, I spent a month studying Galatians, and I really don't see where some of you fellows are coming from (except FifthFreedom, of course). Paul wore out the topic of keeping the Mosaic Law either as a part of justification or as something one does after being justified.

Yeah, I know, one or three of you guys will bombard with three or four pages of quoted text :tongueout: but I've researched what fellows like MacArthur, Jeremiah, McGee, etc. think (after I'd studied it on my own--they all say what I'd concluded) about this subject and it's pretty clear to me. Salvation = by grace through faith. Sanctification by the Spirit also--if you can't get to salvation by obeying the Law, what makes you think you can stay there by obeying it? Makes no sense. See below.


Problem is Brad, The words "Salvation" when used in the Hebrew bible means something totally different than in does in "christianese" So people often get confused.

Brasso
08-19-2011, 15:25
Nothing but confusion on here when it comes to the commandments.

The Law given 430 years later was dealing with the Tabernacle, not the Torah.

The Torah is for ALL Israel. Period.

The people who throw Galatians around tickle me the most. They have no problems with keeping the hundreds of man made and N.T. commandments but somehow think keeping those "old testament" laws is somehow a sin. That keeping them is legalistic, but keeping the other 9 isn't. Whatever.

FifthFreedom
08-19-2011, 15:26
God Himself seperated the two laws. One was written by God Himself, the other by Moses.

The Early Christian Church made a distinction.

Acts 21:19-25



Here you and the authors of Acts are clearly 100% wrong.

Leviticus 27:34

" There are the commandments that HaShem commanded Moshe to the Children of Israel on Mount Sinai."
All of the commandments were given to Moshe by HaShem to give to Israel. Moses didn't make up any new commandments not would he have been able to without being in violation of the Torah itself.

Roering
08-19-2011, 15:33
It's still "cooking" and where there is smoke there would be fire or no?

Semetic semantics eh?

FifthFreedom
08-19-2011, 15:37
Semetic semantics eh?


No it's called following G-d's commandments not to build fire on Shabbat.

Vic Hays
08-19-2011, 15:38
Salvation = by grace through faith. Sanctification by the Spirit also--if you can't get to salvation by obeying the Law, what makes you think you can stay there by obeying it? Makes no sense. See below.

I agree with you on the subject of salvation.

The Bible does make it clear what is pleasing to God. Do you think by disobeying God you can gain salvation? Those who are being saved keep the moral law because they love God.

Paul makes it clear that those who are spiritualy minded are subject to the law of God and can please Him.

Romans 8:6-8 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

If you are not subject to the law of God what does that say about your relationship with Him?

Vic Hays
08-19-2011, 15:40
Here you and the authors of Acts are clearly 100% wrong.

Leviticus 27:34

" There are the commandments that HaShem commanded Moshe to the Children of Israel on Mount Sinai."
All of the commandments were given to Moshe by HaShem to give to Israel. Moses didn't make up any new commandments not would he have been able to without being in violation of the Torah itself.

You are denying a difference between the Ten Commandments on tables of stone and those ordinances in the book of Moses?

What don't you understand about denial?

FifthFreedom
08-19-2011, 15:45
You are denying a difference between the Ten Commandments on tables of stone and those ordinances in the book of Moses?

What don't you understand about denial?

I could ask you the same question. All the the ten declarations are categories.

AS I just pointed out to you:

Leviticus 27:34

" There are the commandments that HaShem commanded Moshe to the Children of Israel on Mount Sinai."

The entire Law was given at Sinai. G-d did not say "Follow these because there are really important, but these not so much because they are less important."

Brasso
08-19-2011, 16:02
I've tried to tell them that the Torah is the instruction book for the 10 "commandments". If you look at the commandments they are even in the same order by category as the 10. People seem to forget that Moses was given different instructions the second time he went up the mountain that dealt with sin (ie the Tabernacle). The Torah is eternal.

FifthFreedom
08-19-2011, 16:05
G-d continually told his people such as King David, King Soloman, etc. They were to follow his "Laws and His Statues" at no time in the Hebrew Bible did G-d nor the prophets say to them: "Make sure you follow the 10 commandments"
This is a xtian invention. Certainly when Paul was preeching to the heathens at the time, he certainly understood they didn't wanna hear about anything too difficult that involved too much self discipline. The "10 commandments" were easier I guess.

Roering
08-19-2011, 16:07
No it's called following G-d's commandments not to build fire on Shabbat.

Built? I merely lit one. The coals and pecan wood were already in place. Man's gotta eat you know. The manna stopped dropping thousands of years ago.

FifthFreedom
08-19-2011, 16:09
Built? I merely lit one. The coals and pecan wood were already in place.

You cannot light a fire on Shabbat ( if you are Jewish) since you're not...It really doesn't matter what you do.
Yes you have to eat. I have to eat, thats why my food preparation is done by Friday afternoon and the food is kept on a warmer over Shabbat so there is no need to cook.

Roering
08-19-2011, 16:17
You cannot light a fire on Shabbat ( if you are Jewish) since you're not...It really doesn't matter what you do.
Yes you have to eat. I have to eat, thats why my food preparation is done by Friday afternoon and the food is kept on a warmer over Shabbat so there is no need to cook.

If you were allowed to try some slow smoked baby back ribs done Memphis style with just a dab of North Carolina sauce............well, you would be thinking differently. And you could.....technically. You just wouldn't be a kosher Jew anymore. Doesn't sound very nice though...a "non kosher Jew". How about "pre-levitical covenant Jew" or "patriarchal covenant Jew". Sounds better.

FifthFreedom
08-19-2011, 16:23
If you were allowed to try some slow smoked baby back ribs done Memphis style with just a dab of North Carolina sauce............well, you would be thinking differently. And you could.....technically. You just wouldn't be a kosher Jew anymore. Doesn't sound very nice though...a "non kosher Jew". How about "pre-levitical covenant Jew" or "patriarchal covenant Jew". Sounds better.


Thanks anyway.....

Roering
08-19-2011, 17:50
Thanks anyway.....

Do you even drive your car on Saturday?

Skykings2
08-19-2011, 17:58
I am a Sabbath Keeper and also keep all of Gods annual Holy Days.

I am not however a SDA nor Jewish :)
nor am I ,just a bible believer . We try and observe the dietary instructions to the best of our ability's and let the traditions of mans holidays slip away about 6 yrs ago.
Sunset's here in about 20 min and looking forward to the rest.

Skykings2
08-19-2011, 18:11
I've tried to tell them that the Torah is the instruction book for the 10 "commandments". If you look at the commandments they are even in the same order by category as the 10. People seem to forget that Moses was given different instructions the second time he went up the mountain that dealt with sin (ie the Tabernacle). The Torah is eternal.
The word" Torah" can mislead and confuse,scare most folks as it conjurs up the "law" and jewish stuff and I wish we could use "teaching" instead.I post this each week in other places and here's this weeks portion.

http://www.bereansonline.org/enews/5771-46.pdf

Parasha: Ekev

Cling to God

Thought for the Week:

Chasidic Judaism believes that through clinging to one's rebbe (spiritual leader), one is brought into union with his rebbe. Because the rebbe is in union with God, the disciple is also elevated into union with God by virtue of that connection. "That they may all be one; even as you, Father, are in me and I in you, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that you sent me... that they may be one, just as we are one; I in them and you in me, that they may be perfected in oneness... (John 17:21-23).
Commentary:

Deuteronomy 10:20. Moses says, "You shall fear the Lord your God; you shall serve Him and cling to Him..." What does it mean to "cling to Him?" It is actually the same Hebrew word which is used of Adam in the garden when it says, "a man shall leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave to his wife, and they shall become one flesh." (Genesis 2:24)
But how is this cleaving done in practical terms? The Rabbis ask, "Is it possible for a man to cleave to the Divine Presence, seeing that it is written, "For the LORD thy God is a devouring fire?"
They answer...
http://torahportions.org/


Found this site let me know if it's a help to your studies and I'll continue to include the link weekly.



Torah Insights

Parshat Ekev
22 Av 5765 - August 26-27, 2005
Moshe teaches the people of Israel that obedience to Hashem will bring them tranquility, security and prosperity in their Land. He explores this theme from many perspectives in Parashas Ekev:
He will love you, and bless you, and make you numerous; and He will bless the fruit of your belly and the fruit of your Land; your grain, and your wine, and your oil; the calves of your herd and the lambs of your flocks; upon the land that He swore to your forefathers to give to you (Devarim 7:13).
And you shall eat and be satisfied (V’ACHALTA V’SAVA’TA), and you will bless Hashem, your G-d, for the good Land He has given you (8:10). “I will grant rain for your land in its proper time, the early rains and the late rains, that you shall gather your grain, and your wine, and your oil. And I will grant grass in your field (ESEV B’SADCHA) for your animals, and you will eat and be satisfied (V’ACHALTA V’SAVA’TA)” (11:14-15).
Then Hashem will drive out all these nations from before you, and you will possess nations that are greater and mightier than you. Every place upon which the sole of your foot shall tread shall be yours: from the wilderness and the Lebanon, from the river, the Euphrates River, as far as the Western Sea shall be your boundary. No man will stand up against you: the fear of you and the dread of you shall Hashem, your G-d, place on the face of the whole land where you will tread, as He said to you (11:23-25).
The commentaries, however, have some difficulties rendering verse 11:15 above (which is included in the second paragraph of the Shema) and raise several questions:
More of the study here:
http://www.ou.org/torah/ti/5765/ekev65.htm

Skykings2
08-19-2011, 18:15
many have said they really like this site and it's teachings

Old Testament Bible Study for a New Testament Understanding

http://www.torahclass.com/

Torah is the Hebrew word for the first 5 books of the Bible and it is the foundation of the Old Testament just as the Old Testament is the foundation of the New. The Old Testament (Tanach) is the Holy Scripture that Jesus (Yeshua, in Hebrew) taught from, and His Disciples referred to, since there was no New Testament until well after the time of the Apostles that succeeded Him. The Old and New Testaments are inseparable and only when used together do we have a complete, unified, divinely-inspired Bible. Torah Class cross-references the Torah and Old Testament passages with New Testament passages to reveal their seamless continuity. TorahClass.com is the recognized premier online source for Old Testament bible studies and scripture research for Christians, Messianic Jews, and all seekers of truth. (See our FAQs (http://www.torahclass.com/faqs) for a quick overview).


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Paul Taught Torah

http://www.fogwhistle.ca/acts/follow.html
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rgregoryb
08-19-2011, 18:57
geezzzzzzzzzzzz, what a crock..there are 7 days, one is no more special than any other. In an agricultural society ie Moses' time it was easy to take a "designated" day off, now not so much. If everyone was a sabbath keeper, who would staff hospitals, police, fire etc? You special holy guys content to let the heathen serve you so you don't "work"? get a life and grow the hell up.

Kingarthurhk
08-19-2011, 19:43
http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1305787

Kingarthurhk
08-19-2011, 19:48
geezzzzzzzzzzzz, what a crock..there are 7 days, one is no more special than any other. In an agricultural society ie Moses' time it was easy to take a "designated" day off, now not so much. If everyone was a sabbath keeper, who would staff hospitals, police, fire etc? You special holy guys content to let the heathen serve you so you don't "work"? get a life and grow the hell up.

Some of the "special holy guys" staff the hospitals, police, fire, etc. With 13 years experience in the same line of work you had, I have had my share of being a "special holy guy" responding to emergency situations. I have even been called on the carpet unecessarily for being a "special holy guy." So, your brush is too broad, and hand too heavy on this one.

Vic Hays
08-19-2011, 22:33
Col 2: 16-18
"Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ."

Considering Paul's background and that this is inspired writing, I'll agree.

These sabbath days referred to here are ceremonial sabbaths. They point to Christ. They are a shadow. The 7th day sabbath points back to creation and the Creator.

Vic Hays
08-19-2011, 22:47
Here you and the authors of Acts are clearly 100% wrong.

Leviticus 27:34

" There are the commandments that HaShem commanded Moshe to the Children of Israel on Mount Sinai."
All of the commandments were given to Moshe by HaShem to give to Israel. Moses didn't make up any new commandments not would he have been able to without being in violation of the Torah itself.

Ten Commandments Not Special?

Deuteronomy 4:13-14 "So He declared to you His covenat which He commanded you to perform, the Ten Commandments, and He wrote them on two tables of stone. "And the Lord commanded me atb that time to teach you statutes and judgments, that you might observe them in the land which you cross over to possess.

The Ten Commandments are the Covenant.

What Moses wrote were rules to observe.

Brasso
08-20-2011, 08:08
Originally Posted by Roering View Post
Col 2: 16-18
"Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ."

Unfortunately for you, this is NOT how it reads.

...a shadow of things TO come, but the body of Christ.

The original tends to completely disagree with your version.

BradD
08-20-2011, 19:00
I agree with you on the subject of salvation.

The Bible does make it clear what is pleasing to God. Do you think by disobeying God you can gain salvation? Those who are being saved keep the moral law because they love God.

Paul makes it clear that those who are spiritualy minded are subject to the law of God and can please Him.

Romans 8:6-8 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

If you are not subject to the law of God what does that say about your relationship with Him?
See Galatians Chapter 5.

Vic, you're a nice guy and I like you, but you and some of the other fellows kill me with some of these arguments.

BradD
08-20-2011, 19:06
Nothing but confusion on here when it comes to the commandments.

The Law given 430 years later was dealing with the Tabernacle, not the Torah.

The Torah is for ALL Israel. Period.

The people who throw Galatians around tickle me the most. They have no problems with keeping the hundreds of man made and N.T. commandments but somehow think keeping those "old testament" laws is somehow a sin. That keeping them is legalistic, but keeping the other 9 isn't. Whatever.
Brasso, people throw Galatians around for the same reason that Paul wrote it 2000 years ago! Your great (x about 70 LOL) grandfathers made the same kinds of arguments that one has to keep the Mosaic Law to either be justified, to maintain one's salvation, or because one's been converted, etc. Paul beat this subject to death in Galatians and I'm not sure how much clearer it could be. He said it what, four or five different ways so that there was no mistaking the message.

And...before you come back with "so you think you can sin and be a child of God" the answer is: of course not. See 1st John and Galatians Chapter 5.

Vic Hays
08-20-2011, 19:23
See Galatians Chapter 5.

Vic, you're a nice guy and I like you, but you and some of the other fellows kill me with some of these arguments.

Galatians 5 is not talking about the moral law, it is talking about circumcision etc.

The arguement you are refering to is not mine, but Paul's, the same person who wrote Galatians.

The moral law is not a yoke of bondage. If that is what you are talking about, God's covenant law, then I surely would never want to do business with you. Being honest, not commiting adultery, not murdering, honoring parents are not a burden to the spiritual person who loves others.

Snapper2
08-20-2011, 19:55
The moral law is not a yoke of bondage. If that is what you are talking about, God's covenant law, then I surely would never want to do business with you. Being honest, not commiting adultery, not murdering, honoring parents are not a burden to the spiritual person who loves others.

Vic, I'm going to respectfully disagree with you on this. According to Jesus you dont have to actually commit the act,only have it in our hearts,which we all,if we're human are guilty of.This is a burden that only the Holy Spirit can carry.

Brasso
08-20-2011, 20:14
Please, post any passage you want to out of Galatians to support your views.

And I will step by step, take your interpretation of it, blow it out of the water, and send it to the deepest bowels of hell.

Fair enough?

FifthFreedom
08-20-2011, 20:23
Do you even drive your car on Saturday?

No. I don't travel on Shabbos

FifthFreedom
08-20-2011, 20:25
Brasso, people throw Galatians around for the same reason that Paul wrote it 2000 years ago! Your great (x about 70 LOL) grandfathers made the same kinds of arguments that one has to keep the Mosaic Law to either be justified, to maintain one's salvation, or because one's been converted, etc. Paul beat this subject to death in Galatians and I'm not sure how much clearer it could be. He said it what, four or five different ways so that there was no mistaking the message.

And...before you come back with "so you think you can sin and be a child of God" the answer is: of course not. See 1st John and Galatians Chapter 5.

Who was Paul? was he a prophet? was he G-d?

Who's great grandfathers are you referring to? I hope not Brasso's

FifthFreedom
08-20-2011, 20:29
Ten Commandments Not Special?

Deuteronomy 4:13-14 "So He declared to you His covenat which He commanded you to perform, the Ten Commandments, and He wrote them on two tables of stone. "And the Lord commanded me atb that time to teach you statutes and judgments, that you might observe them in the land which you cross over to possess.

The Ten Commandments are the Covenant.

What Moses wrote were rules to observe.

As usual, you are being dishonest by putting words in my mouth. Where did I say they 10 declarations "weren't special" as if somehow i was belittling them. To respond to the rest of your post which is anohter example of your classic "proof texting"

I repeat:
" There are the commandments that HaShem commanded Moshe to the Children of Israel on Mount Sinai."
All of the commandments were given to Moshe by HaShem to give to Israel. Moses didn't make up any new commandments not would he have been able to without being in violation of the Torah itself.

What statutes and judgments? G-d's or Moshe's? How many times to G-d command his people to "Keep my Laws and MY statutes, and MY judgments??"
Are you really that lost?

Vic Hays
08-20-2011, 21:57
As usual, you are being dishonest by putting words in my mouth. Where did I say they 10 declarations "weren't special" as if somehow i was belittling them. To respond to the rest of your post which is anohter example of your classic "proof texting"

I repeat:
" There are the commandments that HaShem commanded Moshe to the Children of Israel on Mount Sinai."
All of the commandments were given to Moshe by HaShem to give to Israel. Moses didn't make up any new commandments not would he have been able to without being in violation of the Torah itself.

What statutes and judgments? G-d's or Moshe's? How many times to G-d command his people to "Keep my Laws and MY statutes, and MY judgments??"
Are you really that lost?

The Ten Commandments are the covenant. The laws of Moses were rules to live in the land by. There is a difference.

Vic Hays
08-20-2011, 22:25
Vic, I'm going to respectfully disagree with you on this. According to Jesus you dont have to actually commit the act,only have it in our hearts,which we all,if we're human are guilty of.This is a burden that only the Holy Spirit can carry.

In a manner of speaking you are correct. The law is spiritual. Only the Holy Spirit can write it in your heart.

Jesus is our example. I want to be like Him. He was sinless right? God has promised that he will finish His good work started in me. I accept and believe that God can create a clean heart in me. In fact I am encoraged at how far He has taken me already.

Revelation 21:7-8 "He that overcomes shall inherit all things," and I will be his God and he shall be My son. But the cowardly, unbeleiving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with foirwe and brimstone which is the second death.

Snapper2
08-20-2011, 22:46
In a manner of speaking you are correct. The law is spiritual. Only the Holy Spirit can write it in your heart.

Jesus is our example. I want to be like Him. He was sinless right? God has promised that he will finish His good work started in me. I accept and believe that God can create a clean heart in me. In fact I am encoraged at how far He has taken me already.

Revelation 21:7-8 "He that overcomes shall inherit all things," and I will be his God and he shall be My son. But the cowardly, unbeleiving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with foirwe and brimstone which is the second death.

The Apostle Paul called himself wretched and said he had to die daily so God could live through him. It was no longer Paul but Christ that lived in him.

Vic Hays
08-21-2011, 05:46
The Apostle Paul called himself wretched and said he had to die daily so God could live through him. It was no longer Paul but Christ that lived in him.

Yes, and He said at the end that he had " fought a good fight."

We are all prone to sin, but God is greater than our sin.

The power of the gospel is to change lives.

I have noticed something. As I have kept the Sabbath by putting away secular things and my worries and problems (its like I put them on a shelf for the day). That when I go back to them they have either greatly diminished or gone away. I find myself remaining in that same frame of mind through the week staying close to my Savior.

FifthFreedom
08-21-2011, 08:41
The Ten Commandments are the covenant. The laws of Moses were rules to live in the land by. There is a difference.


Well you are wrong.
First of all..what were these Laws of Moses that you keep referring to?
Let's take Leviticus:
Chapter 1:1 through Chapters 25:1 all except twp begin with "Hashem spoke to Moses Saying..."
Except for chapter 10 where it starts in verse 12..."Hashem spoke to Aaron.
In all these were Laws directly given. None of them originated with Moses, just another lie.
Levitucus Chapter 26:14..."but if you will not listen to me and perform ALL these comandments ( which commandments? The ones outlines throughout the book) if you consider my decrees loathsome ( read Paul here and xtians like yourself who consider them somehow "less important") and if you reject my ordinances so that you annul my covenant ( hmmm seems like there is more to the covenant than your "10 commandments") He then goes on to list the pounishments that they would suffer.
Before you jump on this in your typical Vic Hayes way and say "ah look see and that's what happened the Jews violated the covenant and made a "new one.."...............Read on


40. They will then confess their iniquity and the iniquity of their fathers their betrayal that they dealt Me, and that they also treated Me as happenstance.
41. Then I too, will treat them as happenstance and bring them in the land of their enemies. If then, their clogged heart becomes humbled, then, [[B]their sufferings] will gain appeasement for their iniquity,
(What gains appeasement?)
42. and I will remember My covenant [with] Jacob, and also My covenant [with] Isaac, and also My covenant [with] Abraham I will remember. And I will remember the Land, Was this covenant with them with the 10 commandments? The covenant with them cannot be annuled otherwise it wouldn't be an everlasting covenant and G-d would be not keeping his word. Apparently you think The G-d of Jacob is like your "god".
43. [For] the Land will be bereft of them, appeasing its sabbaticals when it had been desolate of them, and they will gain appeasement for their iniquity. This was all in retribution for their having despised My ordinances and in retribution for their having rejected My statutes.
44. But despite all this, while they are in the land of their enemies, I will not despise them nor will I reject them to annihilate them, thereby breaking My covenant that is with them, for I am the Lord their God.

Get it? Genius. G-d will not ever break his covenant with us contrary to your lies in the NT, we are not a "cursed people"
45. I will remember for them the covenant [made with] the ancestors, whom I took out from the land of Egypt before the eyes of the nations, to be a God to them. I am the Lord.

Remind us again of who he brought out of Egypt...Xtians? Muslims? Hindus?

46. These are the statutes, the ordinances, and the laws that the Lord gave between Himself and the children of Israel on Mount Sinai, by the hand of Moses. (who gave them?)

Notice these are three separate things ( suppose you know the difference between the three? I could explain them to you if you want.)

Hope not too many words for you.
( Arik's side note: in the same Chapter 26:3 we read: MY SABBATHS YOU SHALL OBSERVE"

One, we are commanded to observe his Sabbaths, that includes the 7th day and the holidays contrary to Paul making it sound as if somehow they aren't important and jsus saying they were created "for man" They are HIS Sabbaths. Get it?

achysklic
08-21-2011, 08:59
Yes, and He said at the end that he had " fought a good fight."

We are all prone to sin, but God is greater than our sin.

The power of the gospel is to change lives.

I have noticed something. As I have kept the Sabbath by putting away secular things and my worries and problems (its like I put them on a shelf for the day). That when I go back to them they have either greatly diminished or gone away. I find myself remaining in that same frame of mind through the week staying close to my Savior.


Honestly it's kinda of silly to keep Gods weekly Sabbath and ignore His annual Sabbaths.

It's picking and choosing what laws of God you want to keep, but protestants are good at this.

Again I ask:

" Vic, read Lev. 23 after doing that I ask.....Who's laws are they? Who gave them? And for how long are the laws for? Also who are the laws given too? "

FifthFreedom
08-21-2011, 09:01
Achy,
it looks like you and I are actually in total agreement here. doesnt happen often but it does happen :)

achysklic
08-21-2011, 09:20
Achy,
it looks like you and I are actually in total agreement here. doesnt happen often but it does happen :)


Miracles do happen...lol

Kingarthurhk
08-21-2011, 09:23
Honestly it's kinda of silly to keep Gods weekly Sabbath and ignore His annual Sabbaths.

It's picking and choosing what laws of God you want to keep, but protestants are good at this.

Again I ask:

" Vic, read Lev. 23 after doing that I ask.....Who's laws are they? Who gave them? And for how long are the laws for? Also who are the laws given too? "

This is where Colosians 2:16-17 comes into play: "Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. <SUP id=en-NIV-29512 class=versenum>17</SUP> These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ."

So, yes, there is the weekly Sabbath day as established at creation, written on stone by the hand of God, kept by Jesus Christ, and the Apostles. However, we see that the New Moon celebration and ceremonial sabbaths are not required. Further, we are instructed not to judge each other in regard to the observance of these.

So, you should not judge Vic for not keeping them, and we should not judge you for keeping them.

FifthFreedom
08-21-2011, 09:25
This is where Colosians 2:16-17 comes into play: "Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. <SUP id=en-NIV-29512 class=versenum>17</SUP> These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ."




No, this is where Colossians falls on it's face.

"MY SABBATHS YOU SHALL OBSERVE"

It is a "you shall" i.e. it is a commandment to the children of Israel, not a suggestion.

Kingarthurhk
08-21-2011, 09:34
No, this is where Colossians falls on it's face.

"MY SABBATHS YOU SHALL OBSERVE"

It is a "you shall" i.e. it is a commandment to the children of Israel, not a suggestion.

I understand your perspective. You do not believe in the Messiah or that he has come and is about to return. Therefore, all the ceremonies pointing toward Him you observe (excepting the sacrifices as you have told me in previous posts). I am still pretty confused on that one. But, looking at things from your perspective I can see your point. Though, it is confusing that in Israel weekly Sabbath keeping has become an issue, with people not keeping it. That confuses me even more given the desire to keep all the of the festivals.

Vic Hays
08-21-2011, 09:41
Honestly it's kinda of silly to keep Gods weekly Sabbath and ignore His annual Sabbaths.

It's picking and choosing what laws of God you want to keep, but protestants are good at this.

Again I ask:

" Vic, read Lev. 23 after doing that I ask.....Who's laws are they? Who gave them? And for how long are the laws for? Also who are the laws given too? "

God picked it when He wrote it Himself along with the other 9 on the tables of stone. God also picked it when He made it holy at creation.

Jesus said, "The Sabbath was made for man," THe other laws written in the Book of Moses were rules and laws for the nation of Israel.

achysklic
08-21-2011, 09:59
God picked it when He wrote it Himself along with the other 9 on the tables of stone. God also picked it when He made it holy at creation.

Jesus said, "The Sabbath was made for man," THe other laws written in the Book of Moses were rules and laws for the nation of Israel.


ok I see, Vic you have no clue who Israel is.

Why do you worship the God of Israel?

By rejecting Gods commandments to keep His Sabbaths you break the 10 commandments you claim to keep. It is said many times toi keep Gods Sabbaths not just Sabbath

achysklic
08-21-2011, 10:02
This is where Colosians 2:16-17 comes into play: "Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. <SUP id=en-NIV-29512 class=versenum>17</SUP> These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ."

So, yes, there is the weekly Sabbath day as established at creation, written on stone by the hand of God, kept by Jesus Christ, and the Apostles. However, we see that the New Moon celebration and ceremonial sabbaths are not required. Further, we are instructed not to judge each other in regard to the observance of these.

So, you should not judge Vic for not keeping them, and we should not judge you for keeping them.


Your translation of col. is wrong.

Let's view the correct translation and you will see the true meaning of it.

16. Therefore, do not allow anyone to
judge you in eating or in drinking, or
with regard to a festival, or new moon, or

the
Sabbaths,
17. Which are a foreshadow of the things
that are coming, but the body of Christ.


Verses 16-18 do not abolish the dietary laws of clean and unclean meats, the festivals or the weekly Sabbath of
God. Rather, Paul is clearly affirming that the Gentiles in Colosse were to continue to observe these commandments
as they had been taught. Paul was instructing the Colossians to disregard the criticisms and harsh judgments of those
outside the church, because the observance of these days are a continuing foreshadow of the things that are yet to come
in God’s plan. By being faithful and keeping these commandments of God, they would always be worshiping the true
God, be built up in Jesus Christ and never lose the understanding of God’s plan. By true obedience to God the Father
and Jesus Christ, they would not be deceived by vain philosophies of men, nor would they be seduced into the worship
of fallen angels—Satan and his demons.

Kingarthurhk
08-21-2011, 10:07
Your translation of col. is wrong.

Let's view the correct translation and you will see the true meaning of it.

16. Therefore, do not allow anyone to
judge you in eating or in drinking, or
with regard to a festival, or new moon, or

the
Sabbaths,
17. Which are a foreshadow of the things
that are coming, but the body of Christ.


It's the NIV. Also, the point remains regardless.

achysklic
08-21-2011, 10:09
It's the NIV. Also, the point remains regardless.

[/LEFT]


Any Bible student would know that the NIV is the worst translation ever produced....pure rubbish

The point doesn't remain...read the correct translation I posted it has a different meaning all together

Kingarthurhk
08-21-2011, 10:12
Any Bible student would know that the NIV is the worst translation ever produced....pure rubbish

The point doesn't remain...read the correct translation I posted it has a different meaning all together

I thank you to allow me to enjoy my "rubbish". Also, where in either quotations does it say it is okay to judge? I'm not seeing it.

FifthFreedom
08-21-2011, 10:17
God picked it when He wrote it Himself along with the other 9 on the tables of stone. God also picked it when He made it holy at creation.

Jesus said, "The Sabbath was made for man," THe other laws written in the Book of Moses were rules and laws for the nation of Israel.


And gee this "living word of your must have missed:


13. If you restrain your foot because of the Sabbath, from performing your affairs on My holy day, and you call the Sabbath a delight, the holy of the Lord honored, and you honor it by not accomplishing your won needs, by not pursuing your affairs and speaking words that are forbidden.
14. Then, you shall delight with the Lord, and I will cause you to ride on the high places of the land, and I will give you to eat the heritage of Jacob your father, for the mouth of the Lord has spoken.

HMMMM....interesting. G-d is claiming it is HIS day, not man's and likewise instructs us to not seek our own ways or pursuing our own affairs.
Guess it wasn't just created for US after all

Vic Hays
08-21-2011, 10:18
ok I see, Vic you have no clue who Israel is.

Why do you worship the God of Israel?

By rejecting Gods commandments to keep His Sabbaths you break the 10 commandments you claim to keep. It is said many times toi keep Gods Sabbaths not just Sabbath

The Ten Commandments do not say to keep the ceremonial sabbaths and the New Testament says they are optional for Gentile Christians.

Vic Hays
08-21-2011, 10:21
And gee this "living word of your must have missed:


13. If you restrain your foot because of the Sabbath, from performing your affairs on My holy day, and you call the Sabbath a delight, the holy of the Lord honored, and you honor it by not accomplishing your won needs, by not pursuing your affairs and speaking words that are forbidden.
14. Then, you shall delight with the Lord, and I will cause you to ride on the high places of the land, and I will give you to eat the heritage of Jacob your father, for the mouth of the Lord has spoken.

HMMMM....interesting. G-d is claiming it is HIS day, not man's and likewise instructs us to not seek our own ways or pursuing our own affairs.
Guess it wasn't just created for US after all

Yes, God is so gracious that He allowed us to keep His Sabbath with Him. This is a good arguement against any man made sabbath day. God picked the day and made it holy. What man dares to change it. If they say that their sabbath is some other day I would wonder who made their other day holy.

Roering
08-21-2011, 10:30
No. I don't travel on Shabbos

Stay home then?

FifthFreedom
08-21-2011, 10:31
Stay home then?


Yep...Or walk...

achysklic
08-21-2011, 10:31
The Ten Commandments do not say to keep the ceremonial sabbaths and the New Testament says they are optional for Gentile Christians.

The first 4 commandment tell us how to Love God.......Gods annaul Sabbaths are His. If you love God you will keep ALL His commandments like Jesus said.

Gods annual Sabbaths are FOREVER. read lev. 23 Vic has forever happened?

Does God change?

FifthFreedom
08-21-2011, 10:32
Yes, God is so gracious that He allowed us to keep His Sabbath with Him. This is a good arguement against any man made sabbath day. God picked the day and made it holy. What man dares to change it. If they say that their sabbath is some other day I would wonder who made their other day holy.


HMMM seems your jsus tried to change it...G-d set down rules and said this is why i did this, now jsus is turning around and putting words in his mouth.

achysklic
08-21-2011, 10:33
I thank you to allow me to enjoy my "rubbish". Also, where in either quotations does it say it is okay to judge? I'm not seeing it.


So do you use the NIV all time?

Or just when you want it to suit your beliefs?

ArtificialGrape
08-21-2011, 11:44
Any Bible student would know that the NIV is the worst translation ever produced....pure rubbish

The point doesn't remain...read the correct translation I posted it has a different meaning all together

So which books from the typical 66 books in the Protestant Bible are missing from your preferred 49 book Bible (http://www.restoringtheoriginalbible.com), or is it all the same material, but just carved up differently?

FifthFreedom
08-21-2011, 11:47
Gods annual Sabbaths are FOREVER. read lev. 23 Vic has forever happened?

Does God change?


It's a lost cause...He won't read it and even if he does, he'll ignore it...

Kingarthurhk
08-21-2011, 12:02
So do you use the NIV all time?

Or just when you want it to suit your beliefs?

Pretty much all the time. Though, I have a parrelell version bible. However, much ire you may direct at me, or my humble bible the point of Colosians remains. You are entitled to keep the New Moon festivals, you are entitled to keep the ceremonial sabbaths. However, you are not to judge those of us who do not keep them with you. The one thing we can agree on is The 7th day weekly Sabbath that has been in existance since creation, written by the hand of God on stone instructing us to "Remember" it, the same said Sabbath kept by Jesus, the same Sabbath kept by the Apostles.

I am sorry if scripture made you angry, but it is clear in its intent that you may do these things, but not judge others for either doing them or not doing them. It is pretty simple.

Kingarthurhk
08-21-2011, 12:06
Yep...Or walk...

I take it you don't get to the synagogue much?

FifthFreedom
08-21-2011, 12:09
I take it you don't get to the synagogue much?

why> is there a rule against walking there that I missed??

Kingarthurhk
08-21-2011, 12:13
why> is there a rule against walking there that I missed??

No, not that I know of. However, you said you didn't travel or walk, so I was trying to logic out how you got there? Unless, you went there on preperation day and had accomodations there, so all you had to do was get out of bed. Just trying to understand what you said is all.

Vic Hays
08-21-2011, 12:44
HMMM seems your jsus tried to change it...G-d set down rules and said this is why i did this, now jsus is turning around and putting words in his mouth.

The Jews missed the words long ago. The entire chapter of Isaiah 58 is about the Sabbath.

Isaiah 58:6 "Is not this the fast that I have chosen, To loose the bonds of wickedness, To undo the heavy burdens, To let the oppressed go free, And that you break every yoke.

It seems you guys are all furious at Jesus for following the words of Isaiah.

Luke 6:10-11 And when He had looked around at them all, He said to the man, "stretch out your hand." And he did so, and his hand was restored as whole as the other. But they were filled with rage, and discussed with one another what they might do to Jesus.

Things haven't changed much.

achysklic
08-21-2011, 15:19
The Jews missed the words long ago. The entire chapter of Isaiah 58 is about the Sabbath.

Isaiah 58:6 "Is not this the fast that I have chosen, To loose the bonds of wickedness, To undo the heavy burdens, To let the oppressed go free, And that you break every yoke.

It seems you guys are all furious at Jesus for following the words of Isaiah.

Luke 6:10-11 And when He had looked around at them all, He said to the man, "stretch out your hand." And he did so, and his hand was restored as whole as the other. But they were filled with rage, and discussed with one another what they might do to Jesus.

Things haven't changed much.


Hey Vic you are close Isaiah 58 is about a Sabbath it's not the weekly Sabbath though the Day of Atonement is a annaul Sabbath of God a fast day.

No stop dancing Vic.

Again I ask:

" Vic, read Lev. 23 after doing that I ask.....Who's laws are they? Who gave them? And for how long are the laws for? Also who are the laws given too? " <!-- / message -->

achysklic
08-21-2011, 15:21
So which books from the typical 66 books in the Protestant Bible are missing from your preferred 49 book Bible (http://www.restoringtheoriginalbible.com), or is it all the same material, but just carved up differently?


No, nothing added or taken away, just arranged in the proper order they were to start with.

Kingarthurhk
08-21-2011, 18:05
Hey Vic you are close Isaiah 58 is about a Sabbath it's not the weekly Sabbath though the Day of Atonement is a annaul Sabbath of God a fast day.

No stop dancing Vic.

Again I ask:

" Vic, read Lev. 23 after doing that I ask.....Who's laws are they? Who gave them? And for how long are the laws for? Also who are the laws given too? " <!-- / message -->

I see you are ignoring Colosians-again.

Vic Hays
08-21-2011, 18:58
Hey Vic you are close Isaiah 58 is about a Sabbath it's not the weekly Sabbath though the Day of Atonement is a annaul Sabbath of God a fast day.

No stop dancing Vic.

Again I ask:

" Vic, read Lev. 23 after doing that I ask.....Who's laws are they? Who gave them? And for how long are the laws for? Also who are the laws given too? " <!-- / message -->

That is not what fifth freedom said, do you think he is wrong?


(Qoute from fifth freedom)
"13. If you restrain your foot because of the Sabbath, from performing your affairs on My holy day, and you call the Sabbath a delight, the holy of the Lord honored, and you honor it by not accomplishing your won needs, by not pursuing your affairs and speaking words that are forbidden.
14. Then, you shall delight with the Lord, and I will cause you to ride on the high places of the land, and I will give you to eat the heritage of Jacob your father, for the mouth of the Lord has spoken.

HMMMM....interesting. G-d is claiming it is HIS day, not man's and likewise instructs us to not seek our own ways or pursuing our own affairs.
Guess it wasn't just created for US after all (Quote)

FifthFreedom
08-22-2011, 06:57
No, not that I know of. However, you said you didn't travel or walk, so I was trying to logic out how you got there? Unless, you went there on preperation day and had accomodations there, so all you had to do was get out of bed. Just trying to understand what you said is all.

Please tell me where I said I don't walk. Don't think I ever said that. I believe I said I don't drive. We also are only allowed to travel ( on foot) a certain distance.

FifthFreedom
08-22-2011, 06:58
No stop dancing Vic.

Again I ask:

" Vic, read Lev. 23 after doing that I ask.....Who's laws are they? Who gave them? And for how long are the laws for? Also who are the laws given too? " <!-- / message -->

You should know by now he doesn't answer questions if the answer would collapse his argument.

FifthFreedom
08-22-2011, 06:59
The Jews missed the words long ago. The entire chapter of Isaiah 58 is about the Sabbath.

Isaiah 58:6 "Is not this the fast that I have chosen, To loose the bonds of wickedness, To undo the heavy burdens, To let the oppressed go free, And that you break every yoke.

It seems you guys are all furious at Jesus for following the words of Isaiah.

Luke 6:10-11 And when He had looked around at them all, He said to the man, "stretch out your hand." And he did so, and his hand was restored as whole as the other. But they were filled with rage, and discussed with one another what they might do to Jesus.

Things haven't changed much.



Yes we always "miss our words" good thing we have non-Hebrew, Torah uneducated Gentiles to show us the light.
Who is "enraged" I couldn't care less what non-Jews do on Shabbos, they arent required to keep it.

Brasso
08-22-2011, 07:04
Stop picking and choosing what you guys want to believe.

The commandments for Israel are forever.

If you believe in the Messiah, you are Israel, and bound by covenant to keep them.

And yes, the Body of Christ, can and does judge us in keeping these days. Judgement begins with the House of God. Keep that in mind.

God told Israel to keep the commandments, and Sabbaths, forever. He told them that anyone who wishes to worship the God of Israel was to keep them. One Law.

If the Jews are to keep them, and there is only one Law, what makes you think you don't have to?

What does Jeremiah say of the New Covenant? God will write the Torah on our hearts. Folks, there is only one Torah.

Skykings2
08-22-2011, 09:37
stop picking and choosing what you guys want to believe.

The commandments for israel are forever.

If you believe in the messiah, you are israel, and bound by covenant to keep them.

And yes, the body of christ, can and does judge us in keeping these days. Judgement begins with the house of god. Keep that in mind.

God told israel to keep the commandments, and sabbaths, forever. He told them that anyone who wishes to worship the god of israel was to keep them. One law.

If the jews are to keep them, and there is only one law, what makes you think you don't have to?

What does jeremiah say of the new covenant? God will write the torah on our hearts. Folks, there is only one torah.
thank you...

Brasso
08-22-2011, 09:44
Additionally, if Messiah is the object of the Sabbaths, and He hasn't fulfilled all of them yet, why would they now be gone?

Good grief, you're throwing away forever commandments, that deal directly with the Messiah, before He's fulfilled them?

What part of Collosians are you having difficulty with?

Vic Hays
08-22-2011, 10:18
You should know by now he doesn't answer questions if the answer would collapse his argument.

Answering the same arguements over and over gets redundant.

I am a Christian, a spiritual Jew. The New Testament says that the laws in leviticus 23 are irrelevant to me except those that would cause conflict with strict circumscised Jews.

achysklic
08-22-2011, 11:01
Answering the same arguements over and over gets redundant.

I am a Christian, a spiritual Jew. The New Testament says that the laws in leviticus 23 are irrelevant to me except those that would cause conflict with strict circumscised Jews.


Vic I hate to say it when it comes to the Bible you are dumber than a box of rocks.... You call yourself a spiritual jews yet igm=nore the law given to bothe the physical and spiritual jews.

What you should have said to be correct is :


I am Vic I am a follower of Ellen White .I reject any scripture that goes against HER teachings.

Vic Hays
08-22-2011, 11:17
Vic I hate to say it when it comes to the Bible you are dumber than a box of rocks.... You call yourself a spiritual jews yet igm=nore the law given to bothe the physical and spiritual jews.

What you should have said to be correct is :


I am Vic I am a follower of Ellen White .I reject any scripture that goes against HER teachings.

Please show where I said anything like that. Do not put words in my mouth. I warned you in the other thread about personal attacks.

Brasso
08-22-2011, 11:29
I still don't understand where the N.T. says we don't have to follow the commandments.

muscogee
08-22-2011, 11:31
You do realize cooking is prohibited on the Sabbath nu?

Is the use of electricity also prohibited?

muscogee
08-22-2011, 11:40
geezzzzzzzzzzzz, what a crock..there are 7 days, one is no more special than any other. In an agricultural society ie Moses' time it was easy to take a "designated" day off, now not so much. If everyone was a sabbath keeper, who would staff hospitals, police, fire etc? You special holy guys content to let the heathen serve you so you don't "work"? get a life and grow the hell up.

And no professional football!!

I'm sure FifthFreedom will correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe there was at least one occasion where the Jews allowed themselves to be defeated by the Greeks rather than fight on the Sabbath.

muscogee
08-22-2011, 11:51
So which books from the typical 66 books in the Protestant Bible are missing from your preferred 49 book Bible (http://www.restoringtheoriginalbible.com), or is it all the same material, but just carved up differently?


These folks are pretty vague about the additional books. If it's the Bible plus the Apocrypha, they they're misrepresenting the product. Those are easy to find for much less money.

Vic Hays
08-22-2011, 13:34
I still don't understand where the N.T. says we don't have to follow the commandments.

Some of us here have the opinion that every commandment of God is still in effect. Some are of the opinion that none of the commandments are in effect. A third group are of the opinion that some of the commandments have become obsolete.

Jesus himself gave His opinion when He was asked:

Matthew 19:16-22 Now behold, one came and said to Him, "Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?" So He said to him, "Why do you call Me good?" No one is good but One. that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments."

He said to Him, "Which ones?" Jesus said, "You shall not murder, "You shall not commit adultery, " You shall not steal, " You shall not bear false witness." Honor your father and your mother, and you shall love your neighbor as yourself."

It is clear that these are from the Ten Commandments which deal with how to treat fellow men.

Jesus said one thing was lacking. The obvious thing lacking is a relationship with God above all else. This would be included in the first four of the Ten Commandments.

achysklic
08-22-2011, 13:59
Please show where I said anything like that. Do not put words in my mouth. I warned you in the other thread about personal attacks.


Vic post #92 you said you were a spiritual jew. you also said lev. didn't apply to you.


Go read lev. 23 it's binding forever so it applies to both spiritual and physical jew. I put nothing in your mouth. You keep inserting your ouwn foot there!

achysklic
08-22-2011, 14:02
Some of us here have the opinion that every commandment of God is still in effect. Some are of the opinion that none of the commandments are in effect. A third group are of the opinion that some of the commandments have become obsolete.

Jesus himself gave His opinion when He was asked:

Matthew 19:16-22 Now behold, one came and said to Him, "Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?" So He said to him, "Why do you call Me good?" No one is good but One. that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments."

He said to Him, "Which ones?" Jesus said, "You shall not murder, "You shall not commit adultery, " You shall not steal, " You shall not bear false witness." Honor your father and your mother, and you shall love your neighbor as yourself."

It is clear that these are from the Ten Commandments which deal with how to treat fellow men.

Jesus said one thing was lacking. The obvious thing lacking is a relationship with God above all else. This would be included in the first four of the Ten Commandments.


Vic, Jesus was the word of the OT. He created everything for the father.

read John 1

So Jesus gave Israel all the commandments thus when Jesus says keep MY commandments He means ALL the commandments He GAVE!

Brasso
08-22-2011, 16:56
He said to Him, "Which ones?" Jesus said, "You shall not murder, "You shall not commit adultery, " You shall not steal, " You shall not bear false witness." Honor your father and your mother, and you shall love your neighbor as yourself."

It is clear that these are from the Ten Commandments which deal with how to treat fellow men.

Jesus said one thing was lacking. The obvious thing lacking is a relationship with God above all else. This would be included in the first four of the Ten Commandments.

Obviously these are not all inclusive. When a scribe asked Him the same question in Mark He answered with the Shema in Deut 6.

The first 4 commandments would be the ones that included His Holy Days. Treating yourself as the Temple of His Spirit, etc...

And in Mathew 5 He stated that not one jot or tittle would pass from the Torah till heaven and earth passed away. Another reference to the Torah where God called heaven and earth as witnesses to Israel's oath to keep the Torah.

Kingarthurhk
08-23-2011, 17:25
Vic I hate to say it when it comes to the Bible you are dumber than a box of rocks.... You call yourself a spiritual jews yet igm=nore the law given to bothe the physical and spiritual jews.

What you should have said to be correct is :


I am Vic I am a follower of Ellen White .I reject any scripture that goes against HER teachings.

I am guessing your translation of the bible doesn't contain Collosians at this point...

Kingarthurhk
08-23-2011, 17:34
Vic post #92 you said you were a spiritual jew. you also said lev. didn't apply to you.


Go read lev. 23 it's binding forever so it applies to both spiritual and physical jew. I put nothing in your mouth. You keep inserting your ouwn foot there!

Colosians 2:16-17.

You know, if you'd like, I am sure there is a moyle out there that could give you a circumsision. They say it makes your dong look bigger...

Vic Hays
08-23-2011, 20:31
The reasoning given in the book of Hebrews for keeping the Seventh-day Sabbath is that we are trusting in God to take care of us through His works not ours. What a wonderful rest and fellowship it is.

Hebrews 4:9-10 There remains therefore a rest (keeping of a sabbath) for the people of God. For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his woks as God did from His.

Brasso
08-23-2011, 21:09
Col 2:16 Let no one therefore judge you in eating or in drinking, or in respect of a festival or a new moon or Sabbaths –
Col 2:17 which are a shadow of what is to come – but the Body of the Messiah.


How exactly do you get that we don't need to do these things, when it says quite plainly that we should? That the Body of Messiah is our judge in keeping them?

How?

TheRogue
08-24-2011, 01:08
To the OP:

I believe we are to keep the 7th day Sabbath, but are not under any obligation to keep the feast days or ceremonial sabbaths that fall on different days of the week (see Col. 2:16).

That said, I think it would be really good to keep The Feast of Tabernacles with the family.
We might try it this year.

Kingarthurhk
08-24-2011, 03:58
To the OP:

I believe we are to keep the 7th day Sabbath, but are not under any obligation to keep the feast days or ceremonial sabbaths that fall on different days of the week (see Col. 2:16).

That said, I think it would be really good to keep The Feast of Tabernacles with the family.
We might try it this year.

Good for you. I am not being sarcastic about that either. You have the proper application of the weekly 7th day Sabbath, and you are considering observing a feast day with the proper application of Colosians 2:16 that you are under no oblligation to keep the festivals or feast days. However, if you choose to do so, we should not judge you for doing so.

Finally, in all this back and forth in this thread, a reasonable person.

Skykings2
08-24-2011, 08:03
To the OP:

I believe we are to keep the 7th day Sabbath, but are not under any obligation to keep the feast days or ceremonial sabbaths that fall on different days of the week (see Col. 2:16).

That said, I think it would be really good to keep The Feast of Tabernacles with the family.
We might try it this year.
Observing the Sabbath was the key to unlocking many "truths" for my family. The feast came after we learned how to do that.We started learning about the New Moon and Abbas appointed times and seasons and days and it all comes so easy now. We have a good friend who put this video series together and you might find it interesting. Just knowing that there are 3 feast yet to be fulfilled in prophecy should make many look more deeply into the feast and their meaning and timing.
Knowing that these times were given long before a "judah" ever showed up ,they were given for all the nations "forever".
Scot Dryer - 1\3 - Hebrew Calendar, Feasts & The Menorah

http://www.youtube.com/watch?<wbr>v=taqpkihUYeg&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taqpkihUYeg&feature=related)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?<wbr>v=GERq-bwr6Ms&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GERq-bwr6Ms&feature=related)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?<wbr>v=DqJnkBfihP0&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqJnkBfihP0&feature=related)

achysklic
08-24-2011, 08:11
Good for you. I am not being sarcastic about that either. You have the proper application of the weekly 7th day Sabbath, and you are considering observing a feast day with the proper application of Colosians 2:16 that you are under no oblligation to keep the festivals or feast days. However, if you choose to do so, we should not judge you for doing so.

Finally, in all this back and forth in this thread, a reasonable person.

Why do you keep using col.2 as a proof for breaking Gods laws?

Since you pull verse 16 and 17 out of context do you even have a clue what the book of Col is addressing?

Do you realize ALL of Gods Holy Days are mentioned in the NT being kept by the Church after Jesus Died?

Do you realize ALL Gods Holy Days Are binding forever?

Do you ignore prophecy that shows Gods Holy Days still being kept after Jesus returns by ALL nations?

Picking and choosing a couple of verses OUT OF CONTEXT shows where you mind really is.

Here let's look at one example how silly your way of thinking really is when written out:

"Jesus died to cleanse pig. Yes, the anatomic structure of a pig has changed and that which YHVH did not originally design for human consumption is now mystically transformed into edible food at the cross"

See silly huh?


2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
Paul sees that the Torah keeping believers in Colosse have been mocked, ridiculed and made fun of by the Roman and Greek pagans.

Paul encourages the believers by saying, "Hey -- don't you DARE let those pagans judge you -- you just keep obeying the Torah. Keep on observing the New Moon, eating kosher and keeping Hebrew Feast Days -- don't let those mocking pagans tear you down. They can't judge you."

This MUST BE the correct interpretation to make any sense of Paul saying

"which ARE a shadow of things TO COME"

Most christian pagans fail to realize the significance of these words. Paul, several years AFTER the resurrection, several years AFTER THE NEW COVENANT IS ENACTED -- says the Hebrew Feast Days, the New Moons, eating kosher, etc. ARE STILL a shadow of things TO COME.

In other words -- these Torah commands ARE STILL RELEVANT TODAY!!!!!

So why would any professing lover of Christ resist keeping these Torah observances??? If these things truly do point toward future things to come in Messiah Jesus -- why are the Christians so resistant to obeying them???

Why?? the answer is clear, They honor God with their lips not their hearts!

Vic Hays
08-24-2011, 09:14
Observing the Sabbath was the key to unlocking many "truths" for my family. The feast came after we learned how to do that.We started learning about the New Moon and Abbas appointed times and seasons and days and it all comes so easy now. We have a good friend who put this video series together and you might find it interesting. Just knowing that there are 3 feast yet to be fulfilled in prophecy should make many look more deeply into the feast and their meaning and timing.
Knowing that these times were given long before a "judah" ever showed up ,they were given for all the nations "forever".
Scot Dryer - 1\3 - Hebrew Calendar, Feasts & The Menorah

http://www.youtube.com/watch?<wbr>v=taqpkihUYeg&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taqpkihUYeg&feature=related)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?<wbr>v=GERq-bwr6Ms&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GERq-bwr6Ms&feature=related)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?<wbr>v=DqJnkBfihP0&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqJnkBfihP0&feature=related)

I think the Feast of Tabernacles is great.

It points to the wedding supper of the Lamb.

I am looking forward to celebrating it with Jesus and the saints.

Revelation 19:9 And he said to me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb, And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

Kingarthurhk
08-24-2011, 17:32
Why do you keep using col.2 as a proof for breaking Gods laws?

Since you pull verse 16 and 17 out of context do you even have a clue what the book of Col is addressing?

Do you realize ALL of Gods Holy Days are mentioned in the NT being kept by the Church after Jesus Died?

Do you realize ALL Gods Holy Days Are binding forever?

Do you ignore prophecy that shows Gods Holy Days still being kept after Jesus returns by ALL nations?

Picking and choosing a couple of verses OUT OF CONTEXT shows where you mind really is.

Here let's look at one example how silly your way of thinking really is when written out:

"Jesus died to cleanse pig. Yes, the anatomic structure of a pig has changed and that which YHVH did not originally design for human consumption is now mystically transformed into edible food at the cross"

See silly huh?


2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
Paul sees that the Torah keeping believers in Colosse have been mocked, ridiculed and made fun of by the Roman and Greek pagans.

Paul encourages the believers by saying, "Hey -- don't you DARE let those pagans judge you -- you just keep obeying the Torah. Keep on observing the New Moon, eating kosher and keeping Hebrew Feast Days -- don't let those mocking pagans tear you down. They can't judge you."

This MUST BE the correct interpretation to make any sense of Paul saying

"which ARE a shadow of things TO COME"

Most christian pagans fail to realize the significance of these words. Paul, several years AFTER the resurrection, several years AFTER THE NEW COVENANT IS ENACTED -- says the Hebrew Feast Days, the New Moons, eating kosher, etc. ARE STILL a shadow of things TO COME.

In other words -- these Torah commands ARE STILL RELEVANT TODAY!!!!!

So why would any professing lover of Christ resist keeping these Torah observances??? If these things truly do point toward future things to come in Messiah Jesus -- why are the Christians so resistant to obeying them???

Why?? the answer is clear, They honor God with their lips not their hearts!

If this is trully your position, then you are obligated to to cut off your willy's turtle neck. Have you done that yet?

achysklic
08-24-2011, 18:01
If this is trully your position, then you are obligated to to cut off your willy's turtle neck. Have you done that yet?


Yes I have, However I see you never read the entire book instead of just verse 16 and 17. I also have circumcision of the heart....Guess you don't!

Kingarthurhk
08-24-2011, 18:24
Yes I have, However I see you never read the entire book instead of just verse 16 and 17. I also have circumcision of the heart....Guess you don't!

Excellent start. Now, you haven't shaved your beard or wear any blended clothing, also right?

Brasso
08-24-2011, 18:40
LOL. I can't be perfect, so why bother trying? Is that the attitude?

WOW!

rgregoryb
08-24-2011, 20:56
LOL. I can't be perfect, so why bother trying? Is that the attitude?

WOW!

what is perfection? trying to keep some old mythological directions?


After coming into contact with a religious man I always feel I must wash my hands.
Friedrich Nietzsche

muscogee
08-24-2011, 21:19
what is perfection? trying to keep some old mythological directions?


After coming into contact with a religious man I always feel I must wash my hands.
Friedrich Nietzsche

Priceless!!!

Paul7
08-24-2011, 22:09
what is perfection? trying to keep some old mythological directions?

Is an idea wrong because it is old?

After coming into contact with a religious man I always feel I must wash my hands.
Friedrich Nietzsche

I would feel the same if I ever came across Friedrich Neitzsche. I bet he doesn't think God is dead anymore.

achysklic
08-25-2011, 03:24
Excellent start. Now, you haven't shaved your beard or wear any blended clothing, also right?

Wow it's easy to see what the Bible meant by this group of people..

Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be

Go ahead continue in lawlessness it will only lead to death.

Also don't be like CB and avoid questions...it seem to be a trend among the SDA.

I repost for you:

Why do you keep using col.2 as a proof for breaking Gods laws?

Since you pull verse 16 and 17 out of context do you even have a clue what the book of Col is addressing?

Do you realize ALL of Gods Holy Days are mentioned in the NT being kept by the Church after Jesus Died?

Do you realize ALL Gods Holy Days Are binding forever?

Why Do you ignore prophecy that shows Gods Holy Days still being kept after Jesus returns by ALL nations?

achysklic
08-25-2011, 03:33
If this is trully your position, then you are obligated to to cut off your willy's turtle neck. Have you done that yet?


Yes but as stated above I was not because of Gods law on it since we now have circumcision on the heart,,,HOWEVER my parents has enough common sense to

A: realize cleanliness

B: Do my future wife a favor and not make her sick looking at it.

Kingarthurhk
08-25-2011, 04:18
Yes but as stated above I was not because of Gods law on it since we now have circumcision on the heart,,,HOWEVER my parents has enough common sense to

A: realize cleanliness

B: Do my future wife a favor and not make her sick looking at it.

Wait a minue now, are you saying, that had your parents not done this, you wouldn't have. The reason I am underscoring this, is beause this became a strong New Testament debate between the Apostles, especially when "gentiles" were included in the faith and it stopped just being a Jewish reform movement. The Jewish side wanted to obligate the gentile side to everything, all the feast days, circumcision, every aspect of Levitical law. That is why there was Colosians, that is why you see a public argument between the two. That is why you see arguments about now causing your brother to stumble, because you had people who had been rooted in Judaism and new "baby" converts who were being turned off by the demands placed on them by their Messianic brethern.

The reason I am asking you these odd questions, is because to me, you jumping all over Vic for not observing the ceremonial customs seems to me an exact parallel of what was happening in the amongst the Apostles as they branched out to the "gentiles". The 7th day Sabbath is obvious from scripture from Genesis to Revelation. However, I see no exhortations to keep the festivals.

However, my point to you, is in exhorting your fellow brethern in insult, you are creating a "stumbling block" to some of the brethern. So, this nearly 2,000 year debate is made alive again in you.

achysklic
08-25-2011, 05:17
Wait a minue now, are you saying, that had your parents not done this, you wouldn't have. The reason I am underscoring this, is beause this became a strong New Testament debate between the Apostles, especially when "gentiles" were included in the faith and it stopped just being a Jewish reform movement. The Jewish side wanted to obligate the gentile side to everything, all the feast days, circumcision, every aspect of Levitical law. That is why there was Colosians, that is why you see a public argument between the two. That is why you see arguments about now causing your brother to stumble, because you had people who had been rooted in Judaism and new "baby" converts who were being turned off by the demands placed on them by their Messianic brethern.

The reason I am asking you these odd questions, is because to me, you jumping all over Vic for not observing the ceremonial customs seems to me an exact parallel of what was happening in the amongst the Apostles as they branched out to the "gentiles". The 7th day Sabbath is obvious from scripture from Genesis to Revelation. However, I see no exhortations to keep the festivals.

However, my point to you, is in exhorting your fellow brethern in insult, you are creating a "stumbling block" to some of the brethern. So, this nearly 2,000 year debate is made alive again in you.


You are having trouble telling the difference between cerimonial code and Gods law. I can start a thread on this if you like.

God stated in Lev. 23 that Israel is to keep His Holy Days FOREVER.(do you deny being spiritual Israel?) If you do why do you so called worship the God of Israel?

Picking and choosing which of Gods laws you want to keep is a joke and a mockery to God.

Paul shows us that as long as we are circumcised in the heart that is a binding circumsion.

I feel like I am teaching Bible school here, this is basic stuff... If you are having trouble with this I would suggest you step back and do serious Bible study (not reading SDA tracls) instead of posting here.

For the record I never jumped on Vic for not observing cerimonal customs. I jumped on him for not keeping GODS LAWS....Please read lev. 23 and answer the questions I posted twice to you.....

Vic Hays
08-25-2011, 05:53
what is perfection? trying to keep some old mythological directions?


After coming into contact with a religious man I always feel I must wash my hands.
Friedrich Nietzsche

Did you go to a seminary and obtain a pastor's credentials?

If so, did they study the Bible there? Did they teach you to go to the Bible for answers?

A word search for perfection will lead to the answer.

In heaven's view, loving your enemies is perfection.

The New Testament motive for obedience is love.

John 14:23 ............"If any man loves Me, He will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make our home with him.

Brasso
08-25-2011, 06:27
Wait a minue now, are you saying, that had your parents not done this, you wouldn't have. The reason I am underscoring this, is beause this became a strong New Testament debate between the Apostles, especially when "gentiles" were included in the faith and it stopped just being a Jewish reform movement. The Jewish side wanted to obligate the gentile side to everything, all the feast days, circumcision, every aspect of Levitical law. That is why there was Colosians, that is why you see a public argument between the two. That is why you see arguments about now causing your brother to stumble, because you had people who had been rooted in Judaism and new "baby" converts who were being turned off by the demands placed on them by their Messianic brethern.

Maybe you should take another look at history, cause "you all screwed up".

Circimcision, in the NT, is related to formal conversion to Judaism involving temple worship, and the whole package. It was accepting the view that if you're Jewish, you're automatically saved because you're Abrahams seed. This has nothing to do with keeping the commandments. It's about motives.

Abraham was given circumcision long before Sinai, so don't try and rationalize it by using Collosians. Two different "motives".

Confusion, confusion.

Brasso
08-25-2011, 06:33
what is perfection? trying to keep some old mythological directions?


After coming into contact with a religious man I always feel I must wash my hands.
Friedrich Nietzsche


Perfection is being just like Him. And guess what, as much as your carnal mind hates it, that involves keeping His commandments.

Where did you go to school?

Are we really back here again? This really is frustrating to repeat the same things over and over, never getting an answer, and then repeating it again.

You are all so dam fond of claiming how we don't need to keep those "old ceremonial laws" like those stupid ole Jews. We're enlightened "Christians". Blah, blah, blah.

Yet no one. Not anyone on here has ever answered this simple question. And I don't really expect an answer because it would involve admitting that what you believe is pure horse manure.

Do you try not to lie, cheat, and steal? And if so, why? Are you earning your salvation? What was that? No?

Then shut the hell up about the rest of the commandments! We keep them for the same reason you do. We just don't pick and choose which ones we like.

Vic Hays
08-25-2011, 06:37
Maybe you should take another look at history, cause "you all screwed up".

Circimcision, in the NT, is related to formal conversion to Judaism involving temple worship, and the whole package. It was accepting the view that if you're Jewish, you're automatically saved because you're Abrahams seed. This has nothing to do with keeping the commandments. It's about motives.

Abraham was given circumcision long before Sinai, so don't try and rationalize it by using Collosians. Two different "motives".

Confusion, confusion.

Paul makes this advice for those who have not been circumcised and have become Christians:

I Corinthians 7:18 Was anyone called while circumcised? Let him not become uncircumcised. Was anyone called while uncircumcised? Let him not be circumcised.

There is no confusion then about circumcision. Obviously the arrival of the Messiah made some changes in the order of things or else Paul was way off base here.

The believing Jews and the Gentiles also lived differently. Notice that this is a basic point of gospel here.

Galatians 2:14 But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter before them all. "If you being a Jew, live in the manner of Gentiles and not as the Jews, why do you compel Gentiles to live as Jews?"

Brasso
08-25-2011, 06:42
Obviously there was no reason to become a Jew or to offer sacrifices in the temple for the new believers. This is what was meant by circumcision.

If the mere act was so bad, why did he circucise Timothy? Was he trying to send him to hell?

It's not the circumcision. That is still a commandment. 8th day old males. It's the motive.

Vic Hays
08-25-2011, 07:11
Obviously there was no reason to become a Jew or to offer sacrifices in the temple for the new believers. This is what was meant by circumcision.

If the mere act was so bad, why did he circucise Timothy? Was he trying to send him to hell?

It's not the circumcision. That is still a commandment. 8th day old males. It's the motive.

I agree on the motive part.

I think what Paul was getting at was that circumcision obligated that person to keep all the ceremonies, do all the sacrifices, and do all of the things that God had intended to point forward to Christ. Once Christ came there was no need to keep pointing forward to His coming.

Paul is specifically pointing to the book of the law and not to the Ten Commandments in the following scripture:

Galatians 3:10,13....................................."Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them."

Verse 13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law having become a curse for us for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree.

The conclusion then is that the book of the law has become optional. It is no longer a curse if you are a Christian. However, if you are circumcised you have become obligated to "continue in all things which are written in the book of the law."

Brasso
08-25-2011, 07:21
The ideas was that being circumcized for the purpose of putting yourself under the levitical system as a means of salvation, instead of Messiah, obligated you to keep the entire Law.

Look, the problem here is that keeping the Law was never a means of salvation. This was the problem. The Pharisees had elevated it to that position, and being unable to keep the Law, had cursed themselves. When put into the proper context it's not a curse, but a blessing.

Messiah freed us from the penalty of the Law. He never did away with it.

rgregoryb
08-25-2011, 07:33
Did you go to a seminary and obtain a pastor's credentials?

If so, did they study the Bible there? Did they teach you to go to the Bible for answers?

A word search for perfection will lead to the answer.

In heaven's view, loving your enemies is perfection.

The New Testament motive for obedience is love.

John 14:23 ............"If any man loves Me, He will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make our home with him.

Why, yes I did, I realize now that it is all a creation of man trying to answer questions for which there were no reasonable explanations at the time. Now it is a good way to "control" people and their $$$.

I won't say it was a waste of time....because the intellectual pursuit was quite challenging....and eye opening.

rgregoryb
08-25-2011, 07:38
Perfection is being just like Him. And guess what, as much as your carnal mind hates it, that involves keeping His commandments.

Where did you go to school?

Are we really back here again? This really is frustrating to repeat the same things over and over, never getting an answer, and then repeating it again.

You are all so dam fond of claiming how we don't need to keep those "old ceremonial laws" like those stupid ole Jews. We're enlightened "Christians". Blah, blah, blah.

Yet no one. Not anyone on here has ever answered this simple question. And I don't really expect an answer because it would involve admitting that what you believe is pure horse manure.

Do you try not to lie, cheat, and steal? And if so, why? Are you earning your salvation? What was that? No?

Then shut the hell up about the rest of the commandments! We keep them for the same reason you do. We just don't pick and choose which ones we like.

wow, just like a "flat earther" .....gonna be a big let down when you receive your final "reward" ????

Vic Hays
08-25-2011, 11:41
The ideas was that being circumcized for the purpose of putting yourself under the levitical system as a means of salvation, instead of Messiah, obligated you to keep the entire Law.

Look, the problem here is that keeping the Law was never a means of salvation. This was the problem. The Pharisees had elevated it to that position, and being unable to keep the Law, had cursed themselves. When put into the proper context it's not a curse, but a blessing.

Messiah freed us from the penalty of the Law. He never did away with it.

I certainly agree that the Law was never a means of salvation.

You yourself have this dichotomy of the temple worship and sacrifices and the law. You are seeming to say that some laws have met the time of their usefulness. Which laws do you consider useful and which are un necessary?

Morals are always useful. The Moral law of the Ten Commandments was certainly set apart as the covenant.

Brasso
08-25-2011, 14:35
There's no dichotomy. The priesthood and tabernacle have been replaced. That was the law added 430 years later. If it doesn't have to do with that, then it's still part of the covenant.

Vic Hays
08-25-2011, 15:10
There's no dichotomy. The priesthood and tabernacle have been replaced. That was the law added 430 years later. If it doesn't have to do with that, then it's still part of the covenant.

The part added 430 years later after Abraham was the Book of the Law.

The Ten Commandments have existed since Creation.

achysklic
08-25-2011, 16:38
Wonder why everyone ignores Lev.23?

Maybe because God said they are MY FEASTS!

FEAST of the Lord!

To be kept forever!


Why does one keep any of Gods commands?

Out of LOVE!

Ignore Lev.23 you ignore the love of God!

Roering
08-25-2011, 18:21
The Ten Commandments have existed since Creation.

Citation???

Brasso
08-25-2011, 18:22
The part added 430 years later after Abraham was the Book of the Law.

No. The Torah was given to Moses the first time he went up the mountain. It wasn't until they sinned with the golden calf that he was given the instructions for the tabernacle.

Kingarthurhk
08-25-2011, 19:15
The ideas was that being circumcized for the purpose of putting yourself under the levitical system as a means of salvation, instead of Messiah, obligated you to keep the entire Law.

Look, the problem here is that keeping the Law was never a means of salvation. This was the problem. The Pharisees had elevated it to that position, and being unable to keep the Law, had cursed themselves. When put into the proper context it's not a curse, but a blessing.

Messiah freed us from the penalty of the Law. He never did away with it.

So, herein lies the question. What of the babies who had no choice in their circumcision? A lot of military kids got the "snip". No one asked them if they wanted it done. Does that mean when they become Christians, the bold applies to them?

achysklic
08-25-2011, 20:47
So, herein lies the question. What of the babies who had no choice in their circumcision? A lot of military kids got the "snip". No one asked them if they wanted it done. Does that mean when they become Christians, the bold applies to them?

why the hang up on ***** circumciion? I personally am glad I am so has every woman I have known. Anyways I would rather you answer the questions I asked you instead of avoiding them. I realize you are used to picking and choosing what to believe, but if you want to give your opinion atleast dont ignore everything else. Makes it look even more cultish.

Vic Hays
08-25-2011, 22:18
Citation???

Morals existed before the Ten Commandments were written on the tables.

The seventh-day sabbath on the seventh day. the serpent bore false witness, Cain murdered Abel. Joseph would not sin against God, etc. Where no law is there is no sin. Romans 5:12-14:

Genesis 39:9 " There is no one greater in this house than I, nor has he kept back anything from me but you, because you are his wife. How can I do this great wickedness, and sin against God?

Before the tables of stone were given to Moses:

Exodus 16:28 And the Lord said," How long do you refuse to keep my commandments and My laws?

Kingarthurhk
08-26-2011, 04:55
why the hang up on ***** circumciion? I personally am glad I am so has every woman I have known. Anyways I would rather you answer the questions I asked you instead of avoiding them. I realize you are used to picking and choosing what to believe, but if you want to give your opinion atleast dont ignore everything else. Makes it look even more cultish.

I am not picking and choosing, though I think you are. You are exhorting everyone to keep all aspects of Leviticus. How would you explain the fact that you do some of things of Leviticus and not all of them?

Leviticus 12:1-5 is pretty clear about circumcision. Additionally, should you marry and your wife give birth, should she avoid going to church for that time period or touching a bible?

Leviticus 14:33-52. Are you going to have your pastor examine your house if it has mold and potentially knock it all down?

Leviticus 15:13-32. When you have relations with your wife are you unclean until evening? And how do you know what has been made unclean in our society where scores of women are running around on their period and you don't know what you have touched is unclean? If you are married, do you prohibit your wife from attending church services while she is having a period?

Do you start to see my point? You demand others to keep Leviticus, but do you pick and choose what you keep from Leviticus?

Brasso
08-26-2011, 05:42
Circumcision was started with Abraham. That was his covenant.

All of God's covenants are forever. All them incorporate His previous covenants.

All you have to ask yourself is which laws were added to the covenant, to deal with sin, until Messiah came? And they aren't all of them.

achysklic
08-26-2011, 07:26
I am not picking and choosing, though I think you are. You are exhorting everyone to keep all aspects of Leviticus. How would you explain the fact that you do some of things of Leviticus and not all of them?

Leviticus 12:1-5 is pretty clear about circumcision. Additionally, should you marry and your wife give birth, should she avoid going to church for that time period or touching a bible?

Leviticus 14:33-52. Are you going to have your pastor examine your house if it has mold and potentially knock it all down?

Leviticus 15:13-32. When you have relations with your wife are you unclean until evening? And how do you know what has been made unclean in our society where scores of women are running around on their period and you don't know what you have touched is unclean? If you are married, do you prohibit your wife from attending church services while she is having a period?

Do you start to see my point? You demand others to keep Leviticus, but do you pick and choose what you keep from Leviticus?

You are picking and choosing, (example, you keep the weekly Sabbath, but do you keep the 613 codes accociated to the Sabbath?)

I am asking specificly about lev.23 which you are avoiding like a plaque.
The reason I say Lev. 23 because God said they are His feast and they are FOREVER The other cerimonal codes in lev, don't say this.

So The question has always been about Gods Sabbaths, you are trying your best to add everything else you can to avoid the Sabbath questions.

Lev. 12,14,15 do these chapters you quoted from have anything to do with Gods Sabbaths? Are any of them mentioned being kept by the apostles throughout the NT?

Please answer what is asked, side stepping is rude.

I see how you have been taught.

Jesus was the word of the OT. He gave the annaul Sabbaths. Hence why He said He is lord over them.

So Since the Holy Days are commanded to be kept forever, the only way to break this commandment is for God Himeself to make another command saying so.

Please show me in the NT where Gods says.

I am the Lord thy God, I gave you MY Sabbaths for your fathers forever, but now I no longer require you to keep them.

Is there any command like this?

If not guess what?

Brasso
08-26-2011, 13:19
Leviticus gives us rules for living. Every commandment in there is for our benefit. You would be wise to keep them. But ritual uncleaness has been dealt with. You cannot be ritually unclean anymore. I would still avoid drinking water with dead flies in it though. Or eating pork, etc.

Ever wonder why the Dr. always asks you if you eat pork when you're sick? They know.

Kingarthurhk
08-26-2011, 17:22
You are picking and choosing, (example, you keep the weekly Sabbath, but do you keep the 613 codes accociated to the Sabbath?)

I am asking specificly about lev.23 which you are avoiding like a plaque.
The reason I say Lev. 23 because God said they are His feast and they are FOREVER The other cerimonal codes in lev, don't say this.

So The question has always been about Gods Sabbaths, you are trying your best to add everything else you can to avoid the Sabbath questions.

Lev. 12,14,15 do these chapters you quoted from have anything to do with Gods Sabbaths? Are any of them mentioned being kept by the apostles throughout the NT?

Please answer what is asked, side stepping is rude.

I see how you have been taught.

Jesus was the word of the OT. He gave the annaul Sabbaths. Hence why He said He is lord over them.

So Since the Holy Days are commanded to be kept forever, the only way to break this commandment is for God Himeself to make another command saying so.

Please show me in the NT where Gods says.

I am the Lord thy God, I gave you MY Sabbaths for your fathers forever, but now I no longer require you to keep them.

Is there any command like this?

If not guess what?

Please provide any documentation where anyone after the crucifiction that was an Apostle kept all the feasts, then I will believe your argument has merit. But, on the rude side, sorry, your posts are typically some of the ruder ones this side of the 'Bert. The 7th Day Sabbath is provable, the feasts are not.

My point to you about picking aspects out of Leviticus is there are a lot of aspects in Leviticus. You declare that we should keep the ceremonial feasts, yet then you declare that the ordinances of ceremonial uncleanliness are to be ignored.

Kingarthurhk
08-26-2011, 17:24
Leviticus gives us rules for living. Every commandment in there is for our benefit. You would be wise to keep them. But ritual uncleaness has been dealt with. You cannot be ritually unclean anymore. I would still avoid drinking water with dead flies in it though. Or eating pork, etc.

Ever wonder why the Dr. always asks you if you eat pork when you're sick? They know.

I don't eat pork. And strangely enough my doctor has never asked me if I do. I have no compunction about shooting hogs as a matter of population control though. But, you do have a valid point about there being aspects that help and are used even today, such as quarantine for contagious diseases.

achysklic
08-26-2011, 17:57
Please provide any documentation where anyone after the crucifiction that was an Apostle kept all the feasts, then I will believe your argument has merit. But, on the rude side, sorry, your posts are typically some of the ruder ones this side of the 'Bert. The 7th Day Sabbath is provable, the feasts are not.

My point to you about picking aspects out of Leviticus is there are a lot of aspects in Leviticus. You declare that we should keep the ceremonial feasts, yet then you declare that the ordinances of ceremonial uncleanliness are to be ignored.


This will be no problem, but I ask after I am done I don't want you to just say it has merit, I want you to say you will keep Gods Sabbaths.



1. Passover
Commanded in Old Testament:
Leviticus:23:5
Observed by Jesus Christ, the apostles or the Church in the New Testament:
Matthew:26:2, 17-19
Mark:14:12-16
Luke:2:41-42; 22:1, 7-20
John:2:13, 23; 6:4; 13:1-30
1 Corinthians:11:23-29
2. Feast of Unleavened Bread
Commanded in Old Testament:
Leviticus:23:6-8
Observed by Jesus Christ, the apostles or the Church in the New Testament:
Matthew:26:17
Mark:14:12
Luke:2:41-42, 22:1,7
Acts:20:6
1 Corinthians:5:6-8
3. Feast of Pentecost
Commanded in Old Testament:
Leviticus:23:15-22
Observed by Jesus Christ, the apostles or the Church in the New Testament:
Acts:2:1-21; 20:16
1 Corinthians:16:8
4. Feast of Trumpets*
Commanded in Old Testament:
Leviticus:23:23-25
Observed by Jesus Christ, the apostles or the Church in the New Testament:
Matthew:24:30-31
1 Thessalonians:4:16-17
Revelation:11:15
5. Day of Atonement
Commanded in Old Testament:
Leviticus:23:26-32
Observed by Jesus Christ, the apostles or the Church in the New Testament:
Acts:27:9
6. Feast of Tabernacles
Commanded in Old Testament:
Leviticus:23:33-43
Observed by Jesus Christ, the apostles or the Church in the New Testament:
John:7:1-2, 8, 10, 14
7. The Eighth Day (sometimes called the Last Great Day)
Commanded in Old Testament:
Leviticus:23:36
Observed by Jesus Christ, the apostles or the Church in the New Testament:
John chapters 7-9


Hope this helps you realize Gods laws are FOREVER just as He says!

Kingarthurhk
08-26-2011, 18:18
This will be no problem, but I ask after I am done I don't want you to just say it has merit, I want you to say you will keep Gods Sabbaths.



1. Passover
Commanded in Old Testament:
Leviticus:23:5
Observed by Jesus Christ, the apostles or the Church in the New Testament:
Matthew:26:2, 17-19
Mark:14:12-16
Luke:2:41-42; 22:1, 7-20
John:2:13, 23; 6:4; 13:1-30
1 Corinthians:11:23-29


Okay, you have demonstrated the communion ritual. Most churches pratice communion.


2. Feast of Unleavened Bread
Commanded in Old Testament:
Leviticus:23:6-8
Observed by Jesus Christ, the apostles or the Church in the New Testament:
Matthew:26:17
Mark:14:12
Luke:2:41-42, 22:1,7
Acts:20:6
1 Corinthians:5:6-8


This appears to be a refence to communion again. The bread at communion is supposed to be unleavened.



3. Feast of Pentecost
Commanded in Old Testament:
Leviticus:23:15-22
Observed by Jesus Christ, the apostles or the Church in the New Testament:
Acts:2:1-21; 20:16
1 Corinthians:16:8


Okay, we see Jewish disciples and other Jews keeping a feast day. Not uncommon, but where were the gentiles in this? Curiously, they have been omitted. Probably, because they don't come into play until Peter's vision. However, we see prophecy being uttered about last day events.



4. Feast of Trumpets*
Commanded in Old Testament:
Leviticus:23:23-25
Observed by Jesus Christ, the apostles or the Church in the New Testament:
Matthew:24:30-31
1 Thessalonians:4:16-17
Revelation:11:15

These deal witht he second comming of Jesus, I am not gathering a feasting reference here.


5. Day of Atonement
Commanded in Old Testament:
Leviticus:23:26-32
Observed by Jesus Christ, the apostles or the Church in the New Testament:
Acts:27:9


This is a reference to the storm season in the seas, I am not seeing any feasting going on.


6. Feast of Tabernacles
Commanded in Old Testament:
Leviticus:23:33-43
Observed by Jesus Christ, the apostles or the Church in the New Testament:
John:7:1-2, 8, 10, 14


Christ had yet to be sacrified a this point...

[/quote]
7. The Eighth Day (sometimes called the Last Great Day)
Commanded in Old Testament:
Leviticus:23:36
Observed by Jesus Christ, the apostles or the Church in the New Testament:
John chapters 7-9

Again pre-crucifiction.


Hope this helps you realize Gods laws are FOREVER just as He says!


I am not seeing a lot of support for your argument. However, it does make me more curious. Could you elaborate on each of the seven feats, when you observe them, and exactly how you observe them?

achysklic
08-26-2011, 18:37
Okay, you have demonstrated the communion ritual. Most churches pratice communion.



This appears to be a refence to communion again. The bread at communion is supposed to be unleavened.




Okay, we see Jewish disciples and other Jews keeping a feast day. Not uncommon, but where were the gentiles in this? Curiously, they have been omitted. Probably, because they don't come into play until Peter's vision. However, we see prophecy being uttered about last day events.



These deal witht he second comming of Jesus, I am not gathering a feasting reference here.



This is a reference to the storm season in the seas, I am not seeing any feasting going on.



Christ had yet to be sacrified a this point...


7. The Eighth Day (sometimes called the Last Great Day)
Commanded in Old Testament:
Leviticus:23:36
Observed by Jesus Christ, the apostles or the Church in the New Testament:
John chapters 7-9


I am not seeing a lot of support for your argument. However, it does make me more curious. Could you elaborate on each of the seven feats, wyou observe them, and exactly how you observe them?[/QUOTE]


I am not affiliated with ucog however here is a calendar of when to keep Gods Holy Days

http://www.ucg.org/holy-day-calendar/

Also here is a link to a great booklet that will explain the Holy Days well.

I could do it here but it will take up alot of space and time.

http://www.ucg.org/files/booklets/gods-holy-day-plan-the-promise-of-hope-for-all-mankind.pdf

ArtificialGrape
08-26-2011, 18:55
Hope this helps you realize Gods laws are FOREVER just as He says!
Perhaps the law had some sort of Son-set clause. :cool:

Kingarthurhk
08-26-2011, 19:11
7. The Eighth Day (sometimes called the Last Great Day)
Commanded in Old Testament:
Leviticus:23:36
Observed by Jesus Christ, the apostles or the Church in the New Testament:
John chapters 7-9


I am not seeing a lot of support for your argument. However, it does make me more curious. Could you elaborate on each of the seven feats, wyou observe them, and exactly how you observe them?


I am not affiliated with ucog however here is a calendar of when to keep Gods Holy Days

http://www.ucg.org/holy-day-calendar/

Also here is a link to a great booklet that will explain the Holy Days well.

I could do it here but it will take up alot of space and time.

http://www.ucg.org/files/booklets/gods-holy-day-plan-the-promise-of-hope-for-all-mankind.pdf[/QUOTE]

So, I have noted that the festival days change-I am guessing beause they are based on a lunar calendar, which is what was used in Hebrew culture. However, the second link was pretty useless as it does not describe how each of the individual feasts were to be kept and the rituals involved.

achysklic
08-26-2011, 20:32
sorry about that second link. here is a link to the best book i have read on Gods holy days. Hope it helps. http://www.cbcg.org/ebooks.html


To sum up how to keep the Holy Days.

Each one is a Holy convacation, which means a Sabbath service is held on each one.

On 3 of the Holy Days a offering is taken up. This is the only offerings required by God. (3 times a yr shall , all the males appear before the Lord with a offering)

The day of Atonement is a Fast day very solemn it's a time when you are to be at one with God.

The Feast of Tabernacles last a week , same as Feast of Bread. During this week which pictures the Millennium, you spend the 10% second tithe you put back from your earnings all yr.

This is a very brief description of them the book explains it well...or Just google Gods Holy Days many groups have written very good books, I think I have read them all...:)

Kingarthurhk
08-27-2011, 06:32
sorry about that second link. here is a link to the best book i have read on Gods holy days. Hope it helps. http://www.cbcg.org/ebooks.html


To sum up how to keep the Holy Days.

Each one is a Holy convacation, which means a Sabbath service is held on each one.

On 3 of the Holy Days a offering is taken up. This is the only offerings required by God. (3 times a yr shall , all the males appear before the Lord with a offering)

The day of Atonement is a Fast day very solemn it's a time when you are to be at one with God.

The Feast of Tabernacles last a week , same as Feast of Bread. During this week which pictures the Millennium, you spend the 10% second tithe you put back from your earnings all yr.

This is a very brief description of them the book explains it well...or Just google Gods Holy Days many groups have written very good books, I think I have read them all...:)

Interesting. From what I am gathering, you pay offerings once a year, and tithe once a yeer. This is somewhat different than what I am used to where tithe is paid everytime you are paid and offerings are on a weekly basis.

achysklic
08-27-2011, 13:14
Interesting. From what I am gathering, you pay offerings once a year, and tithe once a yeer. This is somewhat different than what I am used to where tithe is paid everytime you are paid and offerings are on a weekly basis.

i tithe 10% of all my increase or paydays. offerings however are 3 timrs a yr on the holy days just as God commanded

Kingarthurhk
08-27-2011, 13:43
i tithe 10% of all my increase or paydays. offerings however are 3 timrs a yr on the holy days just as God commanded

Also, interesting. Are you prohibited from giving offerings at other times? Also, do these offerings happen on the Sabbath or another day out of simple curiousity?

achysklic
08-27-2011, 14:14
Also, interesting. Are you prohibited from giving offerings at other times? Also, do these offerings happen on the Sabbath or another day out of simple curiousity?

Special offerings can be given whenever ones wants too. But God requires all males to give a offering 3 times a yr. during the Holy Days


Deut.16:16 Three times in a year shall all thy males appear before the LORD thy God in the place which he shall choose; in the feast of unleavened bread, and in the feast of weeks, and in the feast of tabernacles: and they shall not appear before the LORD empty:


Also as far as tithes goes, 10% is given to God for His work. This is taken from whatever we earn. a second 10% is taken out and put back for us to spend during the week of the Feast of Tabernacles, it is to show us what life will be like during the 1000 yr reign of Christ.

If able a 3rd 10% is taken out for the care of the widows and orphans.

Hope this helps.