CCW'ing a nice 1911. [Archive] - Glock Talk

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okie
08-21-2011, 06:26
I know that 99% of the 1911's out there are awesome pistols, but should a person CCW a very nice 1911? If you have to defend your self and shoot someone, your CCW weapon WILL be taken from you for a while, and who knows how it will be treated, for that reason I'm wondering if it would be wise to carry a real nice pistol. Use your high end 1911's at the range and CCW something like a RIA or SA Milspec, something like that. What are your thoughts:dunno::supergrin:

ArmoryDoc
08-21-2011, 06:34
That's a very wise consideration Okie. In a shoot, you will lose it. Question is, for how long ? And, there is a very real possibility they will permanently etch an evidence # into the gun. Makes me really appreciate my cheaper Glocks for carry.

faawrenchbndr
08-21-2011, 06:53
After a defensive shooting you will lose the weapon for 6-9 months plus.
When thinking about weapon price, I would rather lose a $450 glock than a $1k+ 1911.
However, I'd shoot a 1911 better. I'd rather defend my loved ones with a weapon
I handle better than one that is of a lower cost.

3rdgen40
08-21-2011, 07:07
Well this is making me reconsider my thoughts of buying a "nice" 1911.Since I want to use it for CCW and HD.Maybe I should get a RIA instead of a DW Valor.:faint:

M V Dell
08-21-2011, 07:32
I've gone back in forth with this question. I carry my Les Baer Concept X. It's been to Teddy Jacobson for a complete TJ Job and is a perfect pistol. If I am caught in a bad situation, I want to be with the best weapon I can. Period. Not concerned with the temporary loss. It will come back home eventually.

nolt
08-21-2011, 07:47
why do you they we 1911 people like to have more than one!? :whistling:

CDW4ME
08-21-2011, 08:03
The reason I bought a Ed Brown Special Forces is to defend myself, if it's placed into evidence then I'll simply get the Les Baer UTC; if for some reason I have to defend my life again and the Les Baer is gone, the Dan Wesson Valor is ready.

The sole reason I own those expensive pistols is because I preceive them to be the "best" CCW tool I have available to defend the priceless lives of me & my family.

bac1023
08-21-2011, 08:05
I'm guilty of this thinking.

I carry a Kimber Pro CDP. I've thought many times about carrying my full custom build from EGW, but I can't stand the thought of losing it. It really can't be replaced. That thing is top quality and lights out.

Having said that, the CDP isn't exactly cheap. Its also been great for me for several years now. Its just no EGW.


http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu81/ollituc/014-5.jpg

http://i473.photobucket.com/albums/rr97/briancut1023/026-1.jpg

okie
08-21-2011, 08:23
why do you they we 1911 people like to have more than one!? :whistling:

I shouldn't have traded my SA loaded in on my RO, then I could have CCW'd the loaded and not worried about it:embarassed:

Jim S.
08-21-2011, 08:23
I'd rather defend my loved ones with a weapon I handle better than one that is of a lower cost.

I agree with this, and there is ground between this and what Brian said.
I wouldn't carry a very expensive gun that really can't be replaced but one that is considered very good (and expensive) can be the one I carry if I am really comfortable with it and how well I shoot it.

Just for some interesting info...
I lost one this way and it was nearly 18 months before I was able to get it back.
It was not in perfect shape when I got it back because it was a Blued gun that had not been wiped down or had any oil in that time.
It was not however beyond a simple fix.

dregotglock
08-21-2011, 08:41
had this dicussion with a Texas DPS officer - he told me that once your weapon is confiscated that it will be marked up on the slide or frame (I think he said etched for evidence). This disturbed quite a few people in our class.

Side note - I have a friend who shot at some gang bangers stealing his car from his apartment parking lot. Used the only firearm he had which was a Vietnam Era Govt issued 1911 that he kept since his days in Nam. After he was cleared of the shooting - he went to pick up his firearm and they handed him a firearm that was not his. Went round and round with them showing them serial numbers, pictures, and even brought in an old vhs tape he made to track his firearms for insurance purposes. Oh it was a 1911 but it was a pos, not what was confiscated. Come to find out a desk person (will not mention rank) had taken home. He got it back 2-3 months later with a case number etched into the slide.

He bought a 125.00 shotgun and slugs the next day.

MD357
08-21-2011, 08:55
How much is your life worth people? If you can't afford to lose it, you can't afford to carry it. I have the most work/money into my carry and HD 1911s of any in my "collection." It will piss me off to no end if something happens and I can't get it back for awhile..... BUT I have backups and I want the gun that feels like the extension of my hand to defend myself.

Zombie Steve
08-21-2011, 08:55
You don't serve the cheap wine first at a dinner party.

I'm fine carrying my Brown. If I lose it or it gets marked up, I'll use another.

bac1023
08-21-2011, 09:05
BUT I have backups and I want the gun that feels like the extension of my hand to defend myself.

That's another thing. I'm just so used to my Kimber. :dunno:

okie
08-21-2011, 09:06
had this dicussion with a Texas DPS officer - he told me that once your weapon is confiscated that it will be marked up on the slide or frame (I think he said etched for evidence). This disturbed quite a few people in our class.

Side note - I have a friend who shot at some gang bangers stealing his car from his apartment parking lot. Used the only firearm he had which was a Vietnam Era Govt issued 1911 that he kept since his days in Nam. After he was cleared of the shooting - he went to pick up his firearm and they handed him a firearm that was not his. Went round and round with them showing them serial numbers, pictures, and even brought in an old vhs tape he made to track his firearms for insurance purposes. Oh it was a 1911 but it was a pos, not what was confiscated. Come to find out a desk person (will not mention rank) had taken home. He got it back 2-3 months later with a case number etched into the slide.

He bought a 125.00 shotgun and slugs the next day.

That's a crap sandwich my friend:shocked::faint:

BuckyP
08-21-2011, 09:31
The only "carry-able" 1911 I have is a Kobra Carry. I'd have no qualms with carrying it and the risks mentioned, but the G30 works better for me with the added bonus of it being easier to replace. :dunno:

SouthpawShootr
08-21-2011, 09:51
I generally prefer 1911s, but I carry a Glock 23 for the very reasons mentioned in this thread. I'm confident in the G23 to meet my needs for self-defense. I know how evidence property is treated. I will say that I wouldn't be happy if mine came back to me with a case number etched on it. There are other ways to do this. Maybe judges should have case numbers tatooed on their arms so they won't lose track?

I do have a couple of possible carry 1911 (RIA Tactical, RIA Compact, and a Citadel compact), I just haven't seen the need to move from the 23.

fnfalman
08-21-2011, 10:17
So, let me get this, people buy an arguably superb self-defense handgun and then afraid to use it for self-defense because they're afraid that the gun may be lost to the prosecution for a while?

I've seen this attitude in the motorcycle world, but I never thought I would see it in the gun world, but I suppose that was naive of me.

The sport bike enthusiasts would buy the latest & greatest fast machines from Italy, modify the hell out of it and then comes track day time, they'd break out a clapped out rice burner of some sort. Their reasoning? "It's too nice to take out and thrash, lest I might crash it."

dregotglock
08-21-2011, 10:36
That's a crap sandwich my friend:shocked::faint:

With all do respect - my post is 100% correct. If you are wanting to defend leo there is no need. I am strong leo supporter family and friends. It is what it is take it for what it is worth, but those who know me can verify that 1 I do not lie, and 2 I do not exaggerate facts to fit my purpose. This happened back in 1995 God rest J.B.s soul who passed from heart complications a few years later. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
And again with all do respect
If we look at recent history of wrong doings few bad apples in DFW LEO we need look no further than http://www.wfaa.com/news/crime/Dallas-police-officer-arrested-for-th-124731634.html (http://www.wfaa.com/news/crime/Dallas-police-officer-arrested-for-th-124731634.html) - I am sure this was not a crap sandwich.
<o:p></o:p>
Be safe,
Doc

rahrah12
08-21-2011, 10:36
If I am ever in a situation where I have to defend myself or my family the last thing I will worry about is what happens to my pistol.

If I am alive I will be thankful.

I currently carry my EB KC...it was expensive but can be replaced. I am very comfortable and confident with it.

I think ultimately people should carry what they are comfortable with...

G27RR
08-21-2011, 10:43
STI told me during the factory tour that if an officer uses one of their pistols in a shooting, they will refinish it for free once it comes back from the evidence room. I asked if I had to use one of my STIs as a civilian if they would do the same thing, and he said yes.

The Shadow is currently my most expensive pistol. I carried my Shadow before I heard about the refinish thing anyway, because it's the pistol I shoot the most and it met my concealment needs, but I thought that was pretty cool. :thumbsup:

I had previously thought of the potential loss through evidence or theft or whatever and bought an STI Escort as a backup, so I have a virtually identical in feel and function although $300 less expensive pistol just in case.

The way I look at it is that I bought them to enjoy them. If I couldn't take it out because of the very remote chance I might lose it, I'd be giving up years of enjoyment for something that isn't likely to, and may never, happen.

I don't have anything I couldn't replace though (assuming I had the cash at the time). If I had something with very high sentimental value, like a 1911 a relative used in war, I'd probably shoot but not carry it.

I figure people should do what they are comfortable with, though. If I had a Wilson I'd carry it though.

3rdgen40
08-21-2011, 10:45
With all do respect - my post is 100% correct. If you are wanting to defend leo there is no need. I am strong leo supporter family and friends. It is what it is take it for what it is worth, but those who know me can verify that 1 I do not lie, and 2 I do not exaggerate facts to fit my purpose. This happened back in 1995 God rest J.B.s soul who passed from heart complications a few years later. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
And again with all do respect
If we look at recent history of wrong doings few bad apples in DFW LEO we need look no further than http://www.wfaa.com/news/crime/Dallas-police-officer-arrested-for-th-124731634.html (http://www.wfaa.com/news/crime/Dallas-police-officer-arrested-for-th-124731634.html) - I am sure this was not a crap sandwich.
<o:p></o:p>
Be safe,
Doc
I think you misunderstood OKIE.He did not mean your story was BS.He was saying it was a bad deal...:wavey:

G27RR
08-21-2011, 10:47
I am sure this was not a crap sandwich.

I'm nearly positive he meant it was a sad situation, not that you were not telling the truth.

Edit - guess 3rdgen40 beat me to it.

dregotglock
08-21-2011, 10:55
I think you misunderstood OKIE.He did not mean your story was BS.He was saying it was a bad deal...:wavey:


okay as my wife tells me - I must be having a bad hair day.

part of the problem with posting - no dang way to read body language.

Okie if thats the case buddy - my bad and yes it is a crap sandwich lol

Spiffums
08-21-2011, 11:09
I shouldn't have traded my SA loaded in on my RO, then I could have CCW'd the loaded and not worried about it:embarassed:

But then you would have the urge for a duel gun rig......like the Lone Ranger.

deadite
08-21-2011, 11:18
had this dicussion with a Texas DPS officer - he told me that once your weapon is confiscated that it will be marked up on the slide or frame (I think he said etched for evidence). This disturbed quite a few people in our class.

Side note - I have a friend who shot at some gang bangers stealing his car from his apartment parking lot. Used the only firearm he had which was a Vietnam Era Govt issued 1911 that he kept since his days in Nam. After he was cleared of the shooting - he went to pick up his firearm and they handed him a firearm that was not his. Went round and round with them showing them serial numbers, pictures, and even brought in an old vhs tape he made to track his firearms for insurance purposes. Oh it was a 1911 but it was a pos, not what was confiscated. Come to find out a desk person (will not mention rank) had taken home. He got it back 2-3 months later with a case number etched into the slide.

He bought a 125.00 shotgun and slugs the next day.

That's a crap sandwich my friend:shocked::faint:

With all do respect - my post is 100% correct. If you are wanting to defend leo there is no need. I am strong leo supporter family and friends. It is what it is take it for what it is worth, but those who know me can verify that 1 I do not lie, and 2 I do not exaggerate facts to fit my purpose. This happened back in 1995 God rest J.B.s soul who passed from heart complications a few years later. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
And again with all do respect
If we look at recent history of wrong doings few bad apples in DFW LEO we need look no further than http://www.wfaa.com/news/crime/Dallas-police-officer-arrested-for-th-124731634.html (http://www.wfaa.com/news/crime/Dallas-police-officer-arrested-for-th-124731634.html) - I am sure this was not a crap sandwich.
<o:p></o:p>
Be safe,
Doc

I think you misunderstood OKIE.He did not mean your story was BS.He was saying it was a bad deal...:wavey:

I'm nearly positive he meant it was a sad situation, not that you were not telling the truth.

Edit - guess 3rdgen40 beat me to it.

okay as my wife tells me - I must be having a bad hair day.

part of the problem with posting - no dang way to read body language.

Okie if thats the case buddy - my bad and yes it is a crap sandwich lol

Yeah, if you're on the fence about whether Okie means something with ill intent or with good will, I would definitely go with the good will choice. He's one of the nicest guys on GT.

deadite

Bodyarmorguy
08-21-2011, 11:40
I have 4 1911's that see a frequent amount of carry and are high dollar guns. A Springer that was rebuilt at Yost-Bonitz into a 1* Elite package, a Springer Pro, a Colt 1991A1 Compact model built by Dave Erickson and a Colt Combat Government built by Jason Burton at Heirloom. $2k invested in the least of them and $5k in the most.

If used in defense I am not worrying too much about length of time out of hand or storage.

MD357
08-21-2011, 11:47
I think it's a "crap sandwhich" because it's most likely inaccurate. Some guy talked to a LE officer years ago? Sorry, but I need something more concrete than that. Of all the cases I've seen posted in our local carry forum, nobody has mentioned anything about their firearms being etched so I know it doesn't happen here. If other states do it, I'd like to see some proof.

bac1023
08-21-2011, 12:06
Yeah, if you're on the fence about whether Okie means something with ill intent or with good will, I would definitely go with the good will choice. He's one of the nicest guys on GT.

deadite

Absolutely

bac1023
08-21-2011, 12:07
I have 4 1911's that see a frequent amount of carry and are high dollar guns. A Springer that was rebuilt at Yost-Bonitz into a 1* Elite package, a Springer Pro, a Colt 1991A1 Compact model built by Dave Erickson and a Colt Combat Government built by Jason Burton at Heirloom. $2k invested in the least of them and $5k in the most.

If used in defense I am not worrying too much about length of time out of hand or storage.

That's a nice collection.

mrsurfboard
08-21-2011, 12:12
I think it's a "crap sandwhich" because it's most likely inaccurate. Some guy talked to a LE officer years ago? Sorry, but I need something more concrete than that. Of all the cases I've seen posted in our local carry forum, nobody has mentioned anything about their firearms being etched so I know it doesn't happen here. If other states do it, I'd like to see some proof.

My dept doesn't do it. Gets an evidence tag, like everything else.

GammaDriver
08-21-2011, 12:30
For me it would depend on if the etching was a messy etching pencil scribble, or if it was a computer-controlled etching. If computer-controlled, I'd just get it blued over or protected in that area and leave it on there as a form of hash-mark. Statistically, probably would never have to use that weapon again for self-protection, and it would be interesting for the children to see and inherit.

mrsurfboard
08-21-2011, 12:53
For me it would depend on if the etching was a messy etching pencil scribble, or if it was a computer-controlled etching. If computer-controlled, I'd just get it blued over or protected in that area and leave it on there as a form of hash-mark. Statistically, probably would never have to use that weapon again for self-protection, and it would be interesting for the children to see and inherit.

Computer controlled etching, are you kidding???? It will be either scratched on with a sharp instrument or one of the mechanical engraving pencils by some guy in the evidence room.

okie
08-21-2011, 12:55
With all do respect - my post is 100% correct. If you are wanting to defend leo there is no need. I am strong leo supporter family and friends. It is what it is take it for what it is worth, but those who know me can verify that 1 I do not lie, and 2 I do not exaggerate facts to fit my purpose. This happened back in 1995 God rest J.B.s soul who passed from heart complications a few years later. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
And again with all do respect
If we look at recent history of wrong doings few bad apples in DFW LEO we need look no further than http://www.wfaa.com/news/crime/Dallas-police-officer-arrested-for-th-124731634.html (http://www.wfaa.com/news/crime/Dallas-police-officer-arrested-for-th-124731634.html) - I am sure this was not a crap sandwich.
<o:p></o:p>
Be safe,
Doc

It was a crap sandwich because he got his 1911 stolen:crying:

dakrat
08-21-2011, 15:29
If I saved any of my loved ones life from a defense situation, the price of a custom 1911 would be the least of my concern. depends on the situation. If you drop a high profile drug dealer, you might have to consider selling your house and moving somewhere....

Les Baer is a cheap life insurance company :supergrin:

glock2740
08-21-2011, 15:30
With all do respect - my post is 100% correct. If you are wanting to defend leo there is no need. I am strong leo supporter family and friends. It is what it is take it for what it is worth, but those who know me can verify that 1 I do not lie, and 2 I do not exaggerate facts to fit my purpose. This happened back in 1995 God rest J.B.s soul who passed from heart complications a few years later. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
And again with all do respect
If we look at recent history of wrong doings few bad apples in DFW LEO we need look no further than http://www.wfaa.com/news/crime/Dallas-police-officer-arrested-for-th-124731634.html (http://www.wfaa.com/news/crime/Dallas-police-officer-arrested-for-th-124731634.html) - I am sure this was not a crap sandwich.
<o:p></o:p>
Be safe,
Doc
I think, no, I know, that you misunderstood Okie's response. A crap sandwich refers to what happened as it really sucked for that guy. Not that your story was a load of crap. If one of my top end 1911's was confiscated and came back with a "tattoo" I would pissed beyond belief. That's what they make tags and cable ties for. But if my gun had been stolen, which your friends was, by one of the officers in the department, I would have his job and ass on a stick. The guy would NEVER work for another police department ever again in his life, as he would be a convicted felon after being release from prison.

faawrenchbndr
08-21-2011, 15:46
Different states, different counties, different departments MAY do things differently!

A member here was involved in an incident, his weapon was in a "holding area" for
nine months. When he got it back, it did have a bit of corrosion, but no damage,
no etching, no stamps, no visual signs of abuse.


Crap Sandwich

Used to define something so horiffic or piss ass poor,
the only thing worse would be the consumption of a big old crap sandwich.

polizei1
08-21-2011, 15:57
I'm not worried at all. I like my EMP the way it is and I bought it specifically for that function. I train with what I carry. My EMP certainly isn't the nicest pistol by any means, but it does have some value and Harrisons' name behind it (which makes it hard to obtain). I couldn't easily replace it with another if anything happened, but that's a chance I'm willing to take.

If my life is on the line, I want to use what I am comfortable with, and what I have trained with. Whatever happens after that doesn't matter, except for that I would hopefully still be alive.

However, I will say that there's no way I would carry a "one off" custom that you physically CAN'T replace.

dnuggett
08-21-2011, 16:17
Here is my thought process-

1. Can I conceal it effectively?
2. Is it in a caliber that I feel is effective?
3. Can I train hard with it?
4. Do I feel I will be effective using it?
5. Has it proven itself reliable? (1000 rounds, 0 malfunctions, 1/4 carry ammo)


If it passes those criteria it is eligible to go on the belt. So far it is a Sig 229. It's about to be a Springfield LW Champion Operator as soon as it gets back from SACS and I establish numbers 1-5 above. I'll have about $1200 into it and won't miss a dime of it if I lose it.

I will never own a firearm I can't afford to lose, monetarily speaking. That's not to say I don't or won't own "expensive" firearms. Would it be a crap sandwich? Sure. But if the gun did it's part to save my life or a loved one I really won't care one bit, I'll buy another or wait it out if I want it back. Hell I'm waiting for 2 months on SACS now.

On the related topic of carrying a gun that can't be replaced- no I would not carry it in that case.

asiparks
08-21-2011, 17:24
I carry what works best for me, thoroughly tested and trained with. In hot weather that will be a Wilson LWT CQB, in colder weather, a full size Baer.
The chance that I will ever use them in defense of self or family is incredibly slim, but if I do and I never see them again, I'd shrug and consider the cost a good investment.

98_1LE
08-21-2011, 17:45
It is just a gun, and honest wear is nothing I worry about.

samuse
08-21-2011, 19:57
It wouldn't bother me a bit if they scratched something in my gun.

It would make for a good conversation piece :-)

HotRoderX
08-21-2011, 20:03
With all do respect - my post is 100% correct. If you are wanting to defend leo there is no need. I am strong leo supporter family and friends. It is what it is take it for what it is worth, but those who know me can verify that 1 I do not lie, and 2 I do not exaggerate facts to fit my purpose. This happened back in 1995 God rest J.B.s soul who passed from heart complications a few years later. <!--?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /--><o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
And again with all do respect
If we look at recent history of wrong doings few bad apples in DFW LEO we need look no further than http://www.wfaa.com/news/crime/Dallas-police-officer-arrested-for-th-124731634.html (http://www.wfaa.com/news/crime/Dallas-police-officer-arrested-for-th-124731634.html) - I am sure this was not a crap sandwich.
<o:p></o:p>
Be safe,
Doc

I 99.9% sure Okie meant that was real BS for your friend to have to go thought not he was calling you a liar. I agree with Okie freaking blow to have someone "Mis Place" my en replaceable gun

HotRoderX
08-21-2011, 20:05
I know that 99% of the 1911's out there are awesome pistols, but should a person CCW a very nice 1911? If you have to defend your self and shoot someone, your CCW weapon WILL be taken from you for a while, and who knows how it will be treated, for that reason I'm wondering if it would be wise to carry a real nice pistol. Use your high end 1911's at the range and CCW something like a RIA or SA Milspec, something like that. What are your thoughts:dunno::supergrin:

Okie why did you have to bring this up right as I was wanting to get my first nice 1911 for SD :crying:. I really like the CCO, Valor, V-Bob but now I am not sure I would wanna carry them.

Z28ricer
08-21-2011, 21:28
Different states, different counties, different departments MAY do things differently!

A member here was involved in an incident, his weapon was in a "holding area" for
nine months. When he got it back, it did have a bit of corrosion, but no damage,
no etching, no stamps, no visual signs of abuse.

Believe this is referring to mine.

Number written on it with what was probably a fine tip sharpie, piece of scotch tape over it so that it didnt rub off.

Same on the mags.

Probably varys county by county, HCSO as far as im concerned didnt mistreat mine in any way.

RCP
08-21-2011, 22:37
It wouldn't bother me a bit if they scratched something in my gun.

It would make for a good conversation piece :-)

I agree, fine by me maybe even etch the word "Dirtbags" into it and start tick marks.:rofl:

lawdog734
08-22-2011, 08:29
I carry my No Name. If the goblins come I'll be concentrating on the dirt bag's family law suit. The gun will be the least of my worries. Guns can be refinished or replaced.

ronin.45
08-22-2011, 08:33
I only carry my Custom 1911 at BBQs and holiday gatherings. It is way too nice to get beat up during EDC. Normally you will find a much cheaper polymer gun in my holster.

PlasticGuy
08-22-2011, 15:55
...If I am caught in a bad situation, I want to be with the best weapon I can. Period...
Bingo. If I or my family is threatened, I sincerely hope it's on the day I'm carrying my Yost. I'll worry about post shooting complications after the fight is won.

samuse
08-22-2011, 16:55
If I am caught in a bad situation, I want to be with the best weapon I can. Period. Not concerned with the temporary loss. It will come back home eventually.

Exactly my thoughts. That's why I carry my Glock 19. :cool:

airflyer
08-22-2011, 20:59
I carry my high end 45's they are just tools they are going to be scratched and worn and someday might have to refinished just like anything else, like high end watches enjoy them use them . I bet Wilson wil be more than happy to refinish my gun if I have to save my life or a family member .

woodrowNC
08-22-2011, 22:20
i've often thought of this too. i jump back and forth between a g36, g26, an original series 70, and a new agent. the series 70 that went to colts custom shop never gets carried. no touch without wipe. the other 70 i'd say was close to 95% and i will carry. 20 yrs from now i hope to have it darn near in the white from wear. solution for me is a milspec with a reliability package. or the g36. for some reason, i shoot it very well. gotta be the single stack.

Glocklvr
08-22-2011, 22:23
No dog in this fight, but in the mid 70's I was a LEO. Small town in the California Central Valley was investigated by the Attorney Generals office, for guess what. Officers on that P.D were helping themselves to guns and other booty including drugs from the evidence locker. A very thin line seperates the good guys from the bad guys and that line gets crossed all the time.

Bodyarmorguy
08-23-2011, 20:51
That's a nice collection.

Thank you sir.

So, let me get this, people buy an arguably superb self-defense handgun and then afraid to use it for self-defense because they're afraid that the gun may be lost to the prosecution for a while?

Ditto, I understand if you purchased a custom race gun, a rare production pistol, or built something for a family heirloom, but so many people build what they call "The Ultimate Self-Defense Pistol" the safe queen it because it's too nice to actually use for defense.:headscratch:

awpk03s
08-23-2011, 20:56
I buy guns for an intended purpose. Some are for targets/collecting only, while others are dedicated to defensive purposes. Ironically enough, the ones I tag for defense, whether it be home defense, SHTF, or CCW, those are typically my highest $ weapons. Why? A) I can afford it, B) I have expensive taste at times, C) when it comes to protecting myself and my family I want the BEST weapon I can have. End of story.

To put it in perspective - Would I be pissed if my $4k pistol had an evidence number etched into the slide? Yep. Would I be pissed about having to spend $400 refinishing it? Yep. Would I be glad to get it back at all, and glad that my weapon of choice saved my bacon? You betcha. Does that outweigh the other factors that tick me off? Absolutely.

bac1023
08-23-2011, 20:58
This has been a thread with some good opinions to ponder. :dunno:

faawrenchbndr
08-23-2011, 21:30
..... when it comes to protecting myself and my family I want the BEST weapon I can have. End of story.




Simply outstanding,......very well stated!

Agent6-3/8
08-23-2011, 21:55
A few thoughts on the matter:


First, one really should consider any of their SD weapons as disposable. I've seen the way some departments handle evidence. You may or may not see it again.

Secondly, with the ****storm that is likely to be ignited by pulling the trigger, the cost of a nice Wilson CBQ, etc, is pretty small beans.

Personally, the monetary value of a SD gun is quite secondary to me. Sentimental value is a different story. When I first got my CCW I carried a Colt DS that belonged to my grandfather. I retired it as soon as I could for two reasons. First is that obviously Colt no longer makes them. However, more importantly is that the gun had sentimental value to me and I hated the idea of losing it, be it for months or for good.

My current CCW is a customized Colt XSE Commander. Every tweak and mod I've made has been to increase in combat efficiency. If when the smoke clears me and mine are still ticking then it has served it ultimate purpose. Whatever happens after than really isn't a big deal. Of course thats not to say I wouldn't hate to see it go.

CAcop
08-23-2011, 22:17
Around here non LE shootings are rare. The shootings that we do have the guns get zip tied in boxes. The case numbers go on the outside of the box. We do not etch anything into the gun. Defense attorneys around here have called that destruction of evidence. You are putting a non sterile object onto a gun, eradicating any fingerprint or DNA evidence that might show a defendant was innocent. There is no need to do that kind of crap in this day and age. "Because it's always been done that way" is a piss poor excuse.

I don't have too expensive of firearms. One I used to carry OD that was all pimped out but the trigger is too light and short for me to want to carry it anymore. If I give up mine for 6-12 months and it gets rusty I am not going to be bummed. First of all it can be fixed. Second I have at least one back up.

I think it was Clint Smith who said that if you like a certain kind of gun for CCW you chould get at least 2 of them, preferably 3. That way if one goes down or gets taken as evidence you have another to take its place. If you have a third that is now back up. Realistically I have that kind of bench where they may not be the same type of gun but they are ones I am comfortable with.

GAFinch
08-23-2011, 22:27
I used to worry about that, but nowadays I figure it's more likely to go kaboom or get stolen than to be used in a SD situation.

Sonnytoo
08-23-2011, 22:34
Carry the gun that you can handle most quickly and accurately. Forget the price.
The odds of you being in a shootout is probably 1-5% over the period of your adult life, unless you're a cop.
In addition, it would be nice to maximize the probability of your survival of the incident.
How much money is your life worth?
S2

Disregarded9-side
08-23-2011, 22:41
It's such an inconvenience losing my pistol for months on end every time I kill someone, sheeshhhh!
:)

jethro21
08-24-2011, 22:18
Just to add, no etching of handguns at my department, not even the crappy Saturday night specials. Evidence tag ziptied to the gun, in a box if dna or prints are requested. I don't see any reason why a number would need to be etched on anyway-serial number is already etched on the gun, link that up in reports with the report number, all stored digitally....shouldn't be an issue.

If my gun came back with an etching on it (in this day and age) I would seriously contemplate litigation for at least a new one...I guess that is as long as it was a clean and justified shoot.

Just my thoughts
Jethro

plainsman
08-24-2011, 22:58
If they are ever involved in a shooting, the cost of their firearm, or loss or damage to it, will be the least of their problems. Your lawyers fees, or bail bond if you need it, will absolutely dwarf any custom pistol.

Even if they themselves are either wounded or killed, their medical, funeral, and lost wages will outweigh the cost of their pistol.

Therefore,I think it makes sense to carry the very best, you can't replace your life or your loved ones lives. If a firearm has to serve it purpose and protect you and becomes lost or damaged while protecting you, then you can't ask better then that.

Just who the heck are all these people think they are saving these safe queens for anyway, their children who will trade it for a video game, or their widow who will dump it at yard sale prices.......

TexasPOff
08-25-2011, 00:09
I am not sure where case numbers are being etched into evidence, but that is a big no no. You are tampering with the state of that piece of evidence( a criminal act). The evidence needs to remain in the exact state it was when recovered. You change it and it can cause problems in court. DA asks you if that is the weapon that was used in this case. Defendant, may I see the item in question..No mine did not have this number on it. I have seen this happen in court. I can tell you as well, even though the item may be evidence in a case, it is still the property of the owner, unless it is seized for some reason. The department would be commiting the offense of criminal mischief by damaging an owners property without consent, etching or purposly defacing, damaging that property. This could also be a violation of the ATF regulations pertaining to firearms and thier serial numbers. You are in essence issuing this firearm a serial or ID number. The ATF isn't worried about a local case number, they now have a firearm with mutiple ID numbers if THEY were placed on the frame. This is as bad as altering or erasing a firearms serial number. I don't like having my weapon taken and retained any more than the next person. But realisticlly if it did it's job then I can live without it for a while. It isn't the only one I have. YMMV TXPO

MajorD
08-25-2011, 08:03
I do at times carry a les baer- if I use it to save my life the 2k I'm possibly out is the least of my concerns. If I get it back great if not I'll save up and buy another.

.50 cal
08-25-2011, 17:33
I'm guilty of this thinking.

I carry a Kimber Pro CDP. I've thought many times about carrying my full custom build from EGW, but I can't stand the thought of losing it. It really can't be replaced. That thing is top quality and lights out.

Having said that, the CDP isn't exactly cheap. Its also been great for me for several years now. Its just no EGW.


http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu81/ollituc/014-5.jpg

http://i473.photobucket.com/albums/rr97/briancut1023/026-1.jpg

what smith is EGW :dunno: is this your favorite? how did you ever choose just one?

I will always carry the firearm that I can shoot the best and conceal comfortably, I might change my mind if I get a full custom one day :supergrin:

BuckyP
08-25-2011, 18:50
what smith is EGW :dunno: is this your favorite? how did you ever choose just one?

I will always carry the firearm that I can shoot the best and conceal comfortably, I might change my mind if I get a full custom one day :supergrin:

Evolution Gun Works, started and owned by master gun smith George Smith. Unfortunately, they no longer build guns and only do a few specific gun smithing jobs. They are all about making parts these days.

http://www.egwguns.com/