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nmk
08-23-2011, 09:45
I was channel surfing in my car yesterday and I heard some guy say "you shouldn't give into the temptations of the flesh because you will then be under the control of sin".

Practically speaking, what does this mean?

Japle
08-23-2011, 11:21
It depends on what he means by, "the temptations of the flesh".

SDGlock23
08-23-2011, 11:28
When you give into temptations you give the enemy legal right to attach themselves to you and thus can be under their control. Most people, including Christians are under demonic influence, which isn't the same as full blown possession, but if you pay attention it's easy to see how most people are under evil influences.

Romans 6

Dead to Sin, Alive to God

<sup class="versenum" id="en-NKJV-28066">1</sup> What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? <sup class="versenum" id="en-NKJV-28067">2</sup> Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? <sup class="versenum" id="en-NKJV-28068">3</sup> Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? <sup class="versenum" id="en-NKJV-28069">4</sup> Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
<sup class="versenum" id="en-NKJV-28070">5</sup> For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, <sup class="versenum" id="en-NKJV-28071">6</sup> knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. <sup class="versenum" id="en-NKJV-28072">7</sup> For he who has died has been freed from sin. <sup class="versenum" id="en-NKJV-28073">8</sup> Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, <sup class="versenum" id="en-NKJV-28074">9</sup> knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him. <sup class="versenum" id="en-NKJV-28075">10</sup> For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. <sup class="versenum" id="en-NKJV-28076">11</sup> Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.
<sup class="versenum" id="en-NKJV-28077">12</sup> Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. <sup class="versenum" id="en-NKJV-28078">13</sup> And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. <sup class="versenum" id="en-NKJV-28079">14</sup> For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

From Slaves of Sin to Slaves of God


<sup class="versenum" id="en-NKJV-28080">15</sup> What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! <sup class="versenum" id="en-NKJV-28081">16</sup> Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? <sup class="versenum" id="en-NKJV-28082">17</sup> But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. <sup class="versenum" id="en-NKJV-28083">18</sup> And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. <sup class="versenum" id="en-NKJV-28084">19</sup> I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.

Our carnal, fleshy thoughts war with our spirit, read in Romans 7:

(amplified)

<sup class="versenum" id="en-AMP-28108">18</sup>For I know that nothing good dwells within me, that is, in my flesh. I can will what is right, but I cannot perform it. [I have the intention and urge to do what is right, but no power to carry it out.] <sup class="versenum" id="en-AMP-28109">19</sup>For I fail to practice the good deeds I desire to do, but the evil deeds that I do not desire to do are what I am [ever] doing.
<sup class="versenum" id="en-AMP-28110">20</sup>Now if I do what I do not desire to do, it is no longer I doing it [it is not myself that acts], but the sin [principle] which dwells within me [<sup class="footnote" value="[<a href=&quot;#fen-AMP-28110c&quot; title=&quot;See footnote c&quot;>c</a>]">[c (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+7&version=AMP#fen-AMP-28110c)]</sup>fixed and operating in my soul].
<sup class="versenum" id="en-AMP-28111">21</sup>So I find it to be a law (rule of action of my being) that when I want to do what is right and good, evil is ever present with me and I am subject to its insistent demands.
<sup class="versenum" id="en-AMP-28112">22</sup>For I endorse and delight in the Law of God in my inmost self [with my new nature].
<sup class="versenum" id="en-AMP-28113">23</sup>But I discern in my bodily members [in the sensitive appetites and wills of the flesh] a different law (rule of action) at war against the law of my mind (my reason) and making me a prisoner to the law of sin that dwells in my bodily organs [in the sensitive appetites and wills of the flesh].
<sup class="versenum" id="en-AMP-28114">24</sup>O unhappy and pitiable and wretched man that I am! Who will release and deliver me from [the shackles of] this body of death?
<sup class="versenum" id="en-AMP-28115">25</sup>O thank God! [He will!] through Jesus Christ (the Anointed One) our Lord! So then indeed I, of myself with the mind and heart, serve the Law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.

Norske
08-23-2011, 12:54
Define "sin". :rofl:

My definition of "sin" is action or inaction that unnecessarily harms another person.

Action or inaction that just harms oneself is just stupid, but not necessarily "sin".

I believe that religions define actions that are "sin" that really are not sinful, not because they think they are "bad" for one, but in order to exercise control over the "faithful".

Japle
08-23-2011, 14:15
Posted by SDGlock23:
When you give into temptations you give the enemy legal right to attach themselves to you and thus can be under their control. Most people, including Christians are under demonic influence, which isn't the same as full blown possession, but if you pay attention it's easy to see how most people are under evil influences.

Sorry, but that's pure fantasy.

Norske
08-23-2011, 15:01
Sorry, but that's pure fantasy.

Yeah. Religion cannot prove that demons exist any more than it can prove Gods exist. :faint:

It is just the stick to the carrot. :shocked:

If you cannot get them to drink the Koolaid by promising them heaven, scare the bejeezus out of them with visions of hell. :steamed:

And keep those 10% tithe envelopes coming! :dunno:

NMG26
08-23-2011, 18:43
I was channel surfing in my car yesterday and I heard some guy say "you shouldn't give into the temptations of the flesh because you will then be under the control of sin".

Practically speaking, what does this mean?

Practically nothing.

Don't listen to preachers?

Sin controls you, when you can not control it.

What is sin?

One definiotion of sin is not living up to your highest Ideas.

If you don't think that you should be doing a certain thing, and you can't help yourself, and do it anyways, then you need to learn some self control.

If you keep on working on the thing, and don't give up, you should be able to win over it. Lots of people resort to aking God for help. Good luck!

Vic Hays
08-23-2011, 20:24
Sin is immorality and the lack of love and concern for others.

The Bible definition is:

I John 3:4,10-11 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.

Verse 10-11 In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest. Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother. For this is the message that you heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.

nmk
08-23-2011, 22:23
Practically nothing.

Don't listen to preachers?

Sin controls you, when you can not control it.

What is sin?

One definiotion of sin is not living up to your highest Ideas.

If you don't think that you should be doing a certain thing, and you can't help yourself, and do it anyways, then you need to learn some self control.

If you keep on working on the thing, and don't give up, you should be able to win over it. Lots of people resort to aking God for help. Good luck!

I'm not a follower of any religion. I considered including that in the OP, but I figured my post would then be interpreted as a subtle shot at some religion. That's not what I intended. I'm happy to deal with my temptations as I see fit, but I was curious what the guy meant. According to him one consequence of giving in to those temptations is giving control of yourself to sin. I have no idea what that is supposed to mean and I was curious.

NMG26
08-24-2011, 18:42
I'm not a follower of any religion. I considered including that in the OP, but I figured my post would then be interpreted as a subtle shot at some religion. That's not what I intended. I'm happy to deal with my temptations as I see fit, but I was curious what the guy meant. According to him one consequence of giving in to those temptations is giving control of yourself to sin. I have no idea what that is supposed to mean and I was curious.

Christians are very sin concsious.
They tend to be in a state of self condemnation alot of the time.

A lot of Christains call themselves "backsliding" because they don't think that they are worthy of God.
They cut off fellowship with God because they are living according to what they call sin. Under the power of sin, rather then overcoming the sin, through the power of Christ.

Here is one of the condemning verses that holds them in their state of "backsliding"

John 8:34
Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

Cavalry Doc
08-24-2011, 19:23
Define "sin". :rofl:

My definition of "sin" is action or inaction that unnecessarily harms another person.

Action or inaction that just harms oneself is just stupid, but not necessarily "sin".

I believe that religions define actions that are "sin" that really are not sinful, not because they think they are "bad" for one, but in order to exercise control over the "faithful".

The concept of sin to me, is analogous to wisdom. Now, I'll admit that some people consider something a sin that I don't, but in general, sin is bad for you or others. Where you draw the line is your business.

ArtificialGrape
08-24-2011, 19:51
The concept of sin to me, is analogous to wisdom. Now, I'll admit that some people consider something a sin that I don't, but in general, sin is bad for you or others. Where you draw the line is your business.

I view sin as a religious concept -- violation of Divine law. If somebody steals, I consider that wronging another person, but not a sin given that I don't recognize the existence of Divine law.

Christians can argue that it is sin regardless of what I "recognize", but then they are equally guilty of sinning in other religions for worshipping the wrong god.

NMG26
08-24-2011, 19:53
Britney Spears - I'm A Slave 4 U


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mzybwwf2HoQ

Cavalry Doc
08-24-2011, 20:17
I view sin as a religious concept -- violation of Divine law. If somebody steals, I consider that wronging another person, but not a sin given that I don't recognize the existence of Divine law.

Christians can argue that it is sin regardless of what I "recognize", but then they are equally guilty of sinning in other religions for worshipping the wrong god.

Ok. Then call it "bad stuff".

Problem solved.

427
08-24-2011, 20:21
I was taught in my indoctrination classes, that even thinking about sinning is, in fact, a sin.

Vic Hays
08-25-2011, 06:18
Yes indeed, Under the control of sin it is. It is only by devine intervention that we can do what is right.

There is a delusion that we can do whatever we want and yet people say that the strait and narrow is too difficult.

Jeremiah 13:23 Can the Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard its spots? Then may you also do good who are accustomed to do evil.

Jesus came to set us free from sin. Sin is like a prison house.

Luke 4:18-19 "The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me, Because He has anointed Me To preach the gospel to the poor, He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted, To proclaim liberty to the captives And recovery of sight to the blind, To set at liberty those who are oppressed; To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord.

NMG26
08-25-2011, 08:57
Yes indeed, Under the control of sin it is. It is only by devine intervention that we can do what is right.

Where do you get this stuff from vic?

I can choose to do what is right without devine intervention.

Your doctrine is in control of you. It keeps you from seeing past a certain vantage point.





There is a delusion that we can do whatever we want and yet people say that the strait and narrow is too difficult.

Vic we can do whatever we want.

The strait and narrow is a personal path.

If you are judging whether others are on the strait and narrow then you are sinning.:rofl:



Luke 4:18-19 "The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me, Because He has anointed Me To preach the gospel to the poor, He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted, To proclaim liberty to the captives And recovery of sight to the blind, To set at liberty those who are oppressed; To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord.


Vic, I hope that you see the liberty that I am proclaiming, and find relief from your oppressing doctrines.

Vic Hays
08-25-2011, 11:35
Where do you get this stuff from vic?

I can choose to do what is right without devine intervention.

Your doctrine is in control of you. It keeps you from seeing past a certain vantage point.


God really knows your heart better than you do or He wouldn't be God. We will see if you can rise up above this Bible verse. Time will tell.

Jeremiah 17:9 "The heart is deceitful above all things, And desperately wicked; Who can know it? I, the Lord search the heart, I test the mind, Even to give every man according to his ways, According to the fruit of his doings.

May God bless you :angel:

NMG26
08-25-2011, 18:08
God really knows your heart better than you do or He wouldn't be God. We will see if you can rise up above this Bible verse. Time will tell.

Jeremiah 17:9 "The heart is deceitful above all things, And desperately wicked; Who can know it? I, the Lord search the heart, I test the mind, Even to give every man according to his ways, According to the fruit of his doings.

May God bless you :angel:

Vic,

Throwing a Bible verse at someone does not make an arguement.

Do you believe that your heart is Evil?

Mine is not.

I have a good heart.

So you must trust your Bible verse over your better judgement. Your doctrine keeps you thinking things in the negative. You think that everyone's heart is evil? This is what I mean when I say Christains are "sin conscious". They are full of self hate. How can they not be, with their evil little hearts? The sad thing is that they teach their kids that they are evil. Why? Doctrine.

To always harp on how evil mankind is, will simply give you a self fullfilling prophecy.

Mankind is both good and evil. We have a "sin nature", and a "divine nature". Every day we can do no less then check our own hearts, and endeavour to live according to the devine, that surely is in all humanity.

Be divine Vic! You can do it!

Vic Hays
08-27-2011, 09:54
Vic,

Throwing a Bible verse at someone does not make an arguement.

Do you believe that your heart is Evil?

Mine is not.

I have a good heart.

So you must trust your Bible verse over your better judgement. Your doctrine keeps you thinking things in the negative. You think that everyone's heart is evil? This is what I mean when I say Christains are "sin conscious". They are full of self hate. How can they not be, with their evil little hearts? The sad thing is that they teach their kids that they are evil. Why? Doctrine.

To always harp on how evil mankind is, will simply give you a self fullfilling prophecy.

Mankind is both good and evil. We have a "sin nature", and a "devine nature". Every day we can do no less then check our own hearts, and endeavour to live according to the devine, that surely is in all humanity.

Be devine Vic! You can do it!

That is the good news of the Gospel. When we accept Jesus as our personal savior the Holy Spirit can come in and work inside us. That is the divinity within. We can overcome our sin with the power of the Holy Spirit.

Like AA says, Let go and let God.

Kingarthurhk
08-27-2011, 14:51
I was taught in my indoctrination classes, that even thinking about sinning is, in fact, a sin.

Being tempted is not a sin. Entertaining a sin and fantasizing about it is another matter entirely.

Proverbs 23:7, "For as he thinks in his heart, so is he."

NMG26
08-27-2011, 16:22
That is the good news of the Gospel. When we accept Jesus as our personal savior the Holy Spirit can come in and work inside us. That is the divinity within. We can overcome our sin with the power of the Holy Spirit.

Like AA says, Let go and let God.

Hey Vic,

Thanks for no Bible verse. Good job!

I do have trouble with your doctrine of "Jesus is the the only way" to find the divinity within.

I will paraphrase a Bible verse for you. "Without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sin".

It is far fetched to believe that God must kill, in order to forgive.
If a person must believe in the blood covering for sin in order to find God then many will reject God. Many will think themselves better then this blood requiring God.

I can forgive without shedding blood and so can God.
I know................I don't qualify as a Christian any more. It is a path I had to take.

SDGlock23
08-27-2011, 18:23
It is far fetched to believe that God must kill, in order to forgive.
If a person must believe in the blood covering for sin in order to find God then many will reject God. Many will think themselves better then this blood requiring God.

I can forgive without shedding blood and so can God.
I know................I don't qualify as a Christian any more. It is a path I had to take.

God doesn't have to kill in order to forgive. Before Jesus, there had to be atonement for sin, and that required a sacrifice. Sin is terrible and that anything innocent would have to suffer and die for somebody's transgressions shows the severity of it. Jesus was innocent and shed His blood for our sins so that we might have life. That "might' comes from believing in the One who died for our sins, Jesus Christ the Righteous.

Acts 4:12
"Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.

It's good you can forgive, we must be able to forgive in order to be forgiven! But there is a price to pay for sin, and Jesus paid that price long ago. You either choose Him or you don't, remember man cannot serve two masters! You said you don't qualify as a Christian, which means to me you don't follow Jesus. He is your only hope, nothing or nobody else can save you. Repent while you still can. I will be praying for you.

NMG26
08-27-2011, 21:18
God doesn't have to kill in order to forgive.

The Bible differs with you.
Hebrews 9:22
"And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission."

Before Jesus, there had to be atonement for sin, and that required a sacrifice.


A sacrifice is a killing.
Jesus was killed in our place.
Yes I understand Christain thought.






Sin is terrible and that anything innocent would have to suffer and die for somebody's transgressions shows the severity of it.

God had to kill in order to forgive........how are you not saying that?

Lotiki
08-27-2011, 21:20
Jesus died for my sins.
Therefore, logically , if I don't sin then Jesus died for nothing.

SPIN2010
08-27-2011, 21:33
Proverbs 23:7, "For as he thinks in his heart, so is he."

King, you are all over it with this verse and it is the reason I am thankful we have Christ as our savior.

NMG26
08-28-2011, 09:05
Jesus died for my sins.
Therefore, logically , if I don't sin then Jesus died for nothing.
Everyone dies.
The reason for death is sin.
Jesus died for yours and yet you still die.
The whole logic path must be spiritualized in order for it to work.
Jesus died so you could have everlasting life......is that a future life or a present life?

Vic Hays
08-28-2011, 14:31
Hey Vic,

Thanks for no Bible verse. Good job!

I do have trouble with your doctrine of "Jesus is the the only way" to find the divinity within.

I will paraphrase a Bible verse for you. "Without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sin".

It is far fetched to believe that God must kill, in order to forgive.
If a person must believe in the blood covering for sin in order to find God then many will reject God. Many will think themselves better then this blood requiring God.

I can forgive without shedding blood and so can God.
I know................I don't qualify as a Christian any more. It is a path I had to take.

If you feel that you are above asking for forgiveness from God, then maybe you are able to save yourself. As for me, I know that I only deserve death. It is the goodness of God that He has provided a way out for us.

God cannot lie. When He said that if Adam and Eve sinned by eating the forbidden fruit they would die, it was either true or false. The one equal to the law died in our place. This is the only way that the law of sin and death could be satisfied (forgiven) without us dieing eternally.

Vic Hays
08-28-2011, 14:35
Everyone dies.
The reason for death is sin.
Jesus died for yours and yet you still die.
The whole logic path must be spiritualized in order for it to work.
Jesus died so you could have everlasting life......is that a future life or a present life?

Jesus died for my sins and was ressurected. How am I any better than Him that I cannot die and be resurrected?

Actually the beginning of our everlasting life is when we accept Jesus as our savior. We can live the abundant life promised in John 10. We have everlasting life by promise. That does not mean that we don't have to sleep in the grave and wait for the final fulfillment of that promise.

NMG26
08-28-2011, 16:19
If you feel that you are above asking for forgiveness from God, then maybe you are able to save yourself.

There is nothing wrong with asking God for forgeveness and salvation. Sooner or later you have to win over your sin issues. Quit calling yourself a sinner.



As for me, I know that I only deserve death.

You deserve life Vic.


It is the goodness of God that He has provided a way out for us.

A way out?

What are you trying to escape from? Your sin nature? You must overcome it. Faith will help you in this. It will always be there but you will triumph, if you continue to believe that you can. "I can do all things through Christ that strengthens me".


God cannot lie. When He said that if Adam and Eve sinned by eating the forbidden fruit they would die, it was either true or false. The one equal to the law died in our place. This is the only way that the law of sin and death could be satisfied (forgiven) without us dieing eternally.

Right. God had to kill His Son.

Now we can have a relationship with God.

Jesus took our place.

So you are saying that in order for God to have a relationship with me, Christ had to die. It works. It is beauty to those that are able to see it. The relationship starts here for many. It is a fine way to know God if you do not grow past it. I have.

What about those that are not willing to believe that God had to kill His Son, in order to have a relationship with them?

There is a faith in God here as well. I would say that it is a better faith. The Better faith knows, that God does not have to kill in order to fellowship with mankind. All this killing BS, started in a archaic time, and can be let go. God can and does fellowship with mankind without a blood covering.

The blood covering is sectarian religion. Spirituality and fellowship with God does not require a blood covering.

Kingarthurhk
08-28-2011, 16:24
King, you are all over it with this verse and it is the reason I am thankful we have Christ as our savior.

I agree. A world without Jesus just isn't worth living.