Canadian Author dragged into woods and beaten by Muslim extremists. [Archive] - Glock Talk

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DonGlock26
08-24-2011, 09:53
Canadian Author dragged into woods and beaten by Muslim extremists.

http://www.wireservice.ca/index.php?module=News&func=display&sid=6294

Islam's war on free speech continues.


_

creaky
08-24-2011, 10:26
This is nothing to fret over. There are only an infinitesimal number of extremists and the vast majority are just like Christians. Matter of fact, Christians are worse.

You're such a bigot, Don.

cowboywannabe
08-24-2011, 10:33
when Christians drag a muslim into the woods in a mostly muslim country and beat him for his religous views and the mostly muslim government mildly punishes the Christians, then you can say we are equal in that regard.

until then, the aminal like behaviour that has been comitted in the name of islam has been going on longer and continues today, more so than in the name of Christ.

DonGlock26
08-24-2011, 10:39
This is nothing to fret over. There are only an infinitesimal number of extremists and the vast majority are just like Christians. Matter of fact, Christians are worse.

You're such a bigot, Don.

:supergrin::wavey:

_

1 old 0311
08-24-2011, 13:37
The "Religion Of Peace" strikes again.:whistling:

Ramjet38
08-24-2011, 17:50
This is nothing to fret over. There are only an infinitesimal number of extremists and the vast majority are just like Christians. Matter of fact, Christians are worse.

You're such a bigot, Don.

I agree. Don't forget the Crusades. Tens of Billions were killed by Christians. :shocked:

Norske
08-24-2011, 18:37
I agree. Don't forget the Crusades. Tens of Billions were killed by Christians. :shocked:

So what is your point?

Islam expanded from Medina/Mecca by the SWORD accross what were mostly Eastern Orthodox, Christian lands held by the Byzantines.

It expanded all the way across north Africa, spread north as far as Tours, France where Charles "the Hammer" Martel stopped them butt-cold. They held much of Spain and Portugal until they were finally expelled from Western Europe in 1492.

The Crusades were a failed attempt by Christians to regain what had been Christian lands, stolen by Islam in the first place.

Islam has been trying to expand into Eastern Europe as well and continues to try up to the current day. That was the war over Kosovo was really all about. Christian Serbs trying to retain Christian lands from Muslim interlopers.

So far as I am concerned, the US was on the wrong side of that fight. :wow:

"Billions"? Don't make me laugh. :rofl:

Islam has been the AGGRESSOR against the rest of the non-Muslim world for 1,400 years, ever since Mohammed slit the first throat of the first of his caravan victims who refused to convert to his ridiculous, made-up so-called "religion" which is actually nothing more than a rationalization for pillage and murder.

But you can continue to try to play the "Muslim victim" card. :tongueout:

Some of us understand the truth.

Ramjet38
08-24-2011, 18:52
So what is your point?

It's called, a feable attempt at sarcasim.:whistling:

Cavalry Doc
08-24-2011, 19:19
So what is your point?

.....

.

The Canuck should have been prepared to welcome them.


http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p158/CavalryDoc/nightstand.jpg


:cool:

NMG26
08-24-2011, 19:22
It's called, a feable attempt at sarcasim.:whistling:


I saw what you did there. :supergrin:

Cavalry Doc
08-24-2011, 19:24
The "Religion Of Peace" strikes again.:whistling:

Correction, Pieces.

Paul7
08-24-2011, 21:04
The Canuck should have been prepared to welcome them.


http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p158/CavalryDoc/nightstand.jpg


:cool:

Yes, two dead pieces of jihadist vermin would have been a nice act of public sanitation. I am sure they were trying to issue a warning to those who dare speak the truth about radical Islam.

Akil8290
08-24-2011, 21:10
Canadian Author dragged into woods and beaten by Muslim extremists.

http://www.wireservice.ca/index.php?module=News&func=display&sid=6294

Islam's war on free speech continues.


_

Wow:wow:, and I thought our media sucked; it gives no mention as to how the book insulted Islam. Guess I'll have to read it.:upeyes:

Akil8290
08-24-2011, 21:11
Yes, two dead pieces of jihadist vermin would have been a nice act of public sanitation. I am sure they were trying to issue a warning to those who dare speak the truth about radical Islam.

These people are out there. Watch your 6; I know I'm watching mine.

Akil8290
08-24-2011, 21:12
This is nothing to fret over. There are only an infinitesimal number of extremists and the vast majority are just like Christians. Matter of fact, Christians are worse.

You're such a bigot, Don.

Be cool..be cool.

Paul7
08-24-2011, 21:30
These people are out there. Watch your 6; I know I'm watching mine.

What's 'your 6'? I'm sure you would be on their crap list too, Akil.

Akil8290
08-24-2011, 21:33
What's 'your 6'? I'm sure you would be on their crap list too, Akil.

Your 6 means behind you. As in watch behind you for attackers and unsavory characters. It means I'm looking out for you, brother.

Oh, I would really be on their s--- list.

ArtificialGrape
08-24-2011, 21:40
I once came across the suggestion that there be an express security line at airports for atheists. If you were willing to desecrate a whole stack of holy books you were free to go. :cool:

Paul7
08-24-2011, 21:40
Your 6 means behind you. As in watch behind you for attackers and unsavory characters. It means I'm looking out for you, brother.

Oh, I would really be on their s--- list.

Yes, other Muslims are the most frequent victims of these jihadist animals. It is pathetic to see the results of a suicide bomb in a Bahgdad market, for instance, in the middle of people who probably want no more than to live a normal life.

Paul7
08-24-2011, 21:42
I once came across the suggestion that there be an express security line at airports for atheists. If you were willing to desecrate a whole stack of holy books you were free to go. :cool:

Amazing how you guys ignore the 100,000,000 victims of atheistic communism. You've got all other religions beat in that category, by far.

Akil8290
08-24-2011, 21:44
Yes, other Muslims are the most frequent victims of these jihadist animals. It is pathetic to see the results of a suicide bomb in a Bahgdad market, for instance, in the middle of people who probably want no more than to live a normal life.

Yet, people on here are convinced that those who reside in the Middle East and Muslims are all terrorists.

Akil8290
08-24-2011, 21:44
The Canuck should have been prepared to welcome them.


http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p158/CavalryDoc/nightstand.jpg


:cool:

That's one hell of an ugly lamp!:wow:

Akil8290
08-24-2011, 22:23
Amazing how you guys ignore the 100,000,000 victims of atheistic communism. You've got all other religions beat in that category, by far.

Fo' sho'.

ArtificialGrape
08-24-2011, 22:33
Amazing how you guys ignore the 100,000,000 victims of atheistic communism. You've got all other religions beat in that category, by far.
"you guys"? ouch. Actually my post was meant for the "Airport Security" thread, and before I could edit it here you had replied, so I'll address this again.

There is an important distinction that you should look into between correlation and causation. Joseph Stalin, Adolf Hitler and Saddam Hussein all had mustaches, so I guess we should all be diligent in the lookout for moustachioed leaders.

Nothing is being ignored, but I'm yet to see a coherent argument that the atrocities committed under atheist dictators were committed in the name of atheism.

Most often when somebody attempts to play the Hitler/Stalin card there is the basic premise that (1) lack of belief in god causes people to act immorally, and (2) the inverse that belief in God, specifically the Christian God, causes people to act morally.

This is quickly contradicted by the fact that there are atheists that do not commit atrocities, and there are theists that do.

So we have:
(1) atheists that commit atrocities
(2) atheists that do not commit atrocities
(3) theists that commit atrocities
(4) theists that do not commit atrocities

The existence of people in (2) and (3) contradicts the 2 initial premises. If we cannot conclude that it was their belief in God that caused theists to commit atrocities, then you cannot conclude that an atheists lack of belief in God caused them to commit their atrocities. So, there must be a difference between an atheist that commits atrocities and one that does not (and between a theist that commits atrocities and one that does not). The difference is clearly not the belief in God, so the difference must be something more personal like their own values/morality.

The millions of people that died at the hands of these dictators did not die because the leaders had become too rational, too skeptical or demanding of evidence supporting their core beliefs. In fact, these totalitarian leaders have more in common with religion -- with the leader serving in the role of God -- and each having their own dogma and ideology that must be obeyed without question.

Atrocities committed by these leaders, even when perpetuated against religion and the religious, were not committed in the name of atheism. The organization and power of religion was the threat, and threats to totalitarianism must be dealt with harshly.

BTW, a pretty strong case can be built that Hitler never renounced his faith, but that question, while interesting, has no relevance to the argument above.

-ArtificialGrape<hr>
Most religions prophesy the end of the world and then consistently work together to ensure that these prophecies come true.

Akil8290
08-24-2011, 22:36
BTW, a pretty strong case can be built that Hitler never renounced his faith, but that question, while interesting, has no relevance to the argument above.


-ArtificialGrape<HR>
Most religions prophesy the end of the world and then consistently work together to ensure that these prophecies come true.


He didn't?

Paul7
08-24-2011, 22:36
"you guys"? ouch. Actually my post was meant for the "Airport Security" thread, and before I could edit it here you had replied, so I'll address this again.

There is an important distinction that you should look into between correlation and causation. Joseph Stalin, Adolf Hitler and Saddam Hussein all had mustaches, so I guess we should all be diligent in the lookout for moustachioed leaders.

Nothing is being ignored, but I'm yet to see a coherent argument that the atrocities committed under atheist dictators were committed in the name of atheism.

Most often when somebody attempts to play the Hitler/Stalin card there is the basic premise that (1) lack of belief in god causes people to act immorally, and (2) the inverse that belief in God, specifically the Christian God, causes people to act morally.

This is quickly contradicted by the fact that there are atheists that do not commit atrocities, and there are theists that do.

So we have:
(1) atheists that commit atrocities
(2) atheists that do not commit atrocities
(3) theists that commit atrocities
(4) theists that do not commit atrocities

The existence of people in (2) and (3) contradicts the 2 initial premises. If we cannot conclude that it was their belief in God that caused theists to commit atrocities, then you cannot conclude that an atheists lack of belief in God caused them to commit their atrocities. So, there must be a difference between an atheist that commits atrocities and one that does not (and between a theist that commits atrocities and one that does not). The difference is clearly not the belief in God, so the difference must be something more personal like their own values/morality.

The millions of people that died at the hands of these dictators did not die because the leaders had become too rational, too skeptical or demanding of evidence supporting their core beliefs. In fact, these totalitarian leaders have more in common with religion -- with the leader serving in the role of God -- and each having their own dogma and ideology that must be obeyed without question.

Atrocities committed by these leaders, even when perpetuated against religion and the religious, were not committed in the name of atheism. The organization and power of religion was the threat, and threats to totalitarianism must be dealt with harshly.

BTW, a pretty strong case can be built that Hitler never renounced his faith, but that question, while interesting, has no relevance to the argument above.

-ArtificialGrape<hr>
Most religions prophesy the end of the world and then consistently work together to ensure that these prophecies come true.

A climate is created where tens of millions can be killed where man is believed to be the highest power, that man is a cosmic accident of no more intrinsic worth than a dog, and there are no eternal rewards or punishments. Torquemada was a piker compared to Stalin, and was at least restrained by future judgement.

So no, I don't think it was a coincidence that all those killings happened under atheists.

ArtificialGrape
08-24-2011, 23:09
He didn't?
Hitler never formally renounced his Catholicism, and the Roman Catholic Church never formally excommunicated him.

Here are a few points, and I'm sure a quick google search will turn up much more detail.

In Mein Kampf he refers to thanking "Heaven" after hearing the declaration of WW I
Deputy Führer, a close associate referred to Hitler as "religious, a good Catholic"
From a 1922 speech, "My feeling as a Christian points me to my Lord and Saviour as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. Today, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice ... And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people."
In a 1933 speech, "'We were convinced that the people need and require this faith. We have therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not merely with a few theoretical declarations: we have stamped it out."
In 1941 he wrote, "'I shall remain a Catholic for ever." to General Engel


It is also notable that the officers and soldiers carrying out Hitler's final solution were predominantly Christian.

-ArtificialGrape

ArtificialGrape
08-24-2011, 23:11
A climate is created where tens of millions can be killed where man is believed to be the highest power, that man is a cosmic accident of no more intrinsic worth than a dog, and there are no eternal rewards or punishments. Torquemada was a piker compared to Stalin, and was at least restrained by future judgement.

So no, I don't think[emphasis added] it was a coincidence that all those killings happened under atheists.
I was interested in what you could prove, but at least we know what you think.

Akil8290
08-24-2011, 23:12
Hitler never formally renounced his Catholicism, and the Roman Catholic Church never formally excommunicated him.


Here are a few points, and I'm sure a quick google search will turn up much more detail.

In Mein Kampf he refers to thanking "Heaven" after hearing the declaration of WW I
Deputy Führer, a close associate referred to Hitler as "religious, a good Catholic"
From a 1922 speech, "My feeling as a Christian points me to my Lord and Saviour as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. Today, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice ... And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people."
In a 1933 speech, "'We were convinced that the people need and require this faith. We have therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not merely with a few theoretical declarations: we have stamped it out."
In 1941 he wrote, "'I shall remain a Catholic for ever." to General Engel

It is also notable that the officers and soldiers carrying out Hitler's final solution were predominantly Christian.

-ArtificialGrape

Oh, I didn't know that. I read somewhere he was actually Jewish or had Jewish lineage. Of course, he doesn't represent Roman Catholicism. Interesting.

Cavalry Doc
08-25-2011, 04:45
Your 6 means behind you. As in watch behind you for attackers and unsavory characters. It means I'm looking out for you, brother.

Oh, I would really be on their s--- list.

Welcome to the world of the digital watch. :)

Most kids have trouble telling time with a regular watch, and don't use watch based positional guidance. Tell them that you can use a watch to find which way is north, and they'll think you are pullin' their leg.

Cavalry Doc
08-25-2011, 04:55
Yet, people on here are convinced that those who reside in the Middle East and Muslims are all terrorists.

Not all of them are terrorists. I've met many that aren't. But enough terrorists are Muslim to pay some attention to the rest, considering their particular style. When any system of beliefs values mass mayhem while taking your own life, it deserves some strategic attention.

Terrorists are not just mythical creatures that some see portrayed on TV to me, I've laid hands on a couple hundred of them.

Norske
08-25-2011, 07:34
It's called, a feable attempt at sarcasim.:whistling:

Is that all you've got? :rofl:

I don't see you trying to feebly refute anything else I said in that post. :rofl:

steveksux
08-25-2011, 07:44
Almost every known case of a serial killer has been committed by a white male.

Personally, I keep a VERY close eye on white males whenever I come into contact with one.

Randy

Paul7
08-25-2011, 08:16
Hitler never formally renounced his Catholicism,

That quote was from Albert Speer, who went on to say Hitler had no real attachment to Catholicism.

and the Roman Catholic Church never formally excommunicated him.

They rarely excommunicate anyone. Look at all the pro-abortion Catholic politicians. The Pope did condemn Hitler's idea of Christian Positivism.

Here are a few points, and I'm sure a quick google search will turn up much more detail.

In Mein Kampf he refers to thanking "Heaven" after hearing the declaration of WW I
Deputy Führer, a close associate referred to Hitler as "religious, a good Catholic"
From a 1922 speech, "My feeling as a Christian points me to my Lord and Saviour as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. Today, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice ... And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people."
In a 1933 speech, "'We were convinced that the people need and require this faith. We have therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not merely with a few theoretical declarations: we have stamped it out."
In 1941 he wrote, "'I shall remain a Catholic for ever." to General Engel


It is also notable that the officers and soldiers carrying out Hitler's final solution were predominantly Christian.

What teaching of Christ were they following? Much of the opposition to Hitler was from Chrisitians, such as Dietrich Bonhoffer, who died in a death camp and who was involved in the plot to assasinate Hitler.

When Hitler was first trying to gain power, he said such pro-Christian things to win power.

From Wikipedia:

"Goebbels notes in a diary entry in 1939 a conversation in which Hitler had "expressed his revulsion against Christianity. He wished that the time were ripe for him to be able to openly express that. Christianity had corrupted and infected the entire world of antiquity."[26] Albert Speer reports in his memoirs of a similar statement made by Hitler: "You see, it's been our misfortune to have the wrong religion. Why didn't we have the religion of the Japanese, who regard sacrifice for the Fatherland as the highest good? The Mohammedan religion too would have been much more compatible to us than Christianity. Why did it have to be Christianity with its meekness and flabbiness?"[27]

In 1941, Hitler praised an anti-Christian tract from AD 362, neo-platonist and pagan Roman emperor Julian the Apostate's Against the Galileans, saying "I really hadn't known how clearly a man like Julian had judged Christians and Christianity, one must read this...."[28]

In 1941, according to the diary of Nazi General Gerhart Engel, Hitler stated "I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so."[29]

Author Konrad Heiden has quoted Hitler as stating, "We do not want any other god than Germany itself. It is essential to have fanatical faith and hope and love in and for Germany."[30] According to historian Laurence Rees, "Hitler did not believe in the afterlife, but he did believe he would have a life after death because of what he had achieved."[31]

"In the political relations dealing with religion Hitler readily adopted a strategy "that suited his immediate political purposes".[88] Nonetheless, Hitler had a general plan, even before the rise of the Nazis to power, to destroy Christianity within the Reich.[7][89][90] The leader of the Hitler Youth stated "the destruction of Christianity was explicitly recognized as a purpose of the National Socialist movement" from the start, but "considerations of expedience made it impossible" publicly to express this extreme position.[7] His intention was to wait until the war was over to destroy the influence of Christianity.[91] The plan was conceived by Hitler and an inner circle, including the propaganda minister, Joseph Goebbels, before the Nazis even came to power."[92]


Hitler planned to eliminate religion, with the exception of the political considerations of Islam, Bhuddism, and Shintoism, probably due to some of his allies being of those religions.

"In 1985 the Austrian author Wilfried Daim published a photograph of an alleged document signed by Hitler in 1943, which proposed the:

"Immediate and unconditional abolition of all religions after the final victory ('Endsieg') not only for the territory of Greater Germany but also for all released, occupied and annexed countries ..., proclaiming at the same time Hitler as the new messiah. Out of political considerations the Muslim, Buddhist and Shintoist religion will be spared for the present. The 'Führer' has to be presented as an intermediate between a redeemer and a liberator, yet surely as one sent by God, who has to get godly honour. The existing churches, chapels, temples and cult places of the different religions have to be changed into 'Adolf-Hitler-consecration places'. The theological faculties of the universities have to be transformed into the new faith. Special emphasis has to be laid on the education of missionaries and wandering preachers, who have to proclaim the teaching in Greater Germany and in the rest of the world and have to form religious bodies, which can be used as centres for further extension. (With this the problems with the abolition of monogamy will disappear, because polygamy can be included into the new teaching as one of the statements of faith.)"[70][71]

creaky
08-25-2011, 08:43
So what is your point?

Islam expanded from Medina/Mecca by the SWORD accross what were mostly Eastern Orthodox, Christian lands held by the Byzantines.

It expanded all the way across north Africa, spread north as far as Tours, France where Charles "the Hammer" Martel stopped them butt-cold. They held much of Spain and Portugal until they were finally expelled from Western Europe in 1492.

The Crusades were a failed attempt by Christians to regain what had been Christian lands, stolen by Islam in the first place.

Islam has been trying to expand into Eastern Europe as well and continues to try up to the current day. That was the war over Kosovo was really all about. Christian Serbs trying to retain Christian lands from Muslim interlopers.

So far as I am concerned, the US was on the wrong side of that fight. :wow:

"Billions"? Don't make me laugh. :rofl:

Islam has been the AGGRESSOR against the rest of the non-Muslim world for 1,400 years, ever since Mohammed slit the first throat of the first of his caravan victims who refused to convert to his ridiculous, made-up so-called "religion" which is actually nothing more than a rationalization for pillage and murder.

But you can continue to try to play the "Muslim victim" card. :tongueout:

Some of us understand the truth.

:rofl: You been seriously Rick Rolled by Ramjet38.

creaky
08-25-2011, 08:51
Be cool..be cool.

How's the worlds friendliest Saracen today? Making any headway with your bretheren?

creaky
08-25-2011, 08:56
Yet, people on here are convinced that those who reside in the Middle East and Muslims are all terrorists.

Now, now. Israel is in the Middle East.;)

creaky
08-25-2011, 09:01
There is an important distinction that you should look into between correlation and causation. Joseph Stalin, Adolf Hitler and Saddam Hussein all had mustaches, so I guess we should all be diligent in the lookout for moustachioed leaders.



Shoot, I wanted to vote for John Bolton.

creaky
08-25-2011, 09:12
Hitler never formally renounced his Catholicism, and the Roman Catholic Church never formally excommunicated him.

Here are a few points, and I'm sure a quick google search will turn up much more detail.

In Mein Kampf he refers to thanking "Heaven" after hearing the declaration of WW I
Deputy Führer, a close associate referred to Hitler as "religious, a good Catholic"
From a 1922 speech, "My feeling as a Christian points me to my Lord and Saviour as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. Today, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice ... And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people."
In a 1933 speech, "'We were convinced that the people need and require this faith. We have therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not merely with a few theoretical declarations: we have stamped it out."
In 1941 he wrote, "'I shall remain a Catholic for ever." to General Engel


It is also notable that the officers and soldiers carrying out Hitler's final solution were predominantly Christian.

-ArtificialGrape

Maybe you should tell the whole story, that is if you can take a rest from that back breaking quote mining.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler's_religious_views

ArtificialGrape
08-25-2011, 09:24
Shoot, I wanted to vote for John Bolton.
Are you sure that it isn't Michael Bolton who is more your style? :cool:

creaky
08-25-2011, 09:39
Are you sure that it isn't Michael Bolton who is more your style? :cool:

Oh snap. Are you implying that I'm gay?

ArtificialGrape
08-25-2011, 09:48
Maybe you should tell the whole story, that is if you can take a rest from that back breaking quote mining.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler's_religious_views

Not quote mining in the traditional sense of taking a quote out of context -- my selected quotes were shown in their context. I admittedly, and intentionally, only selected quotes that supported building the case that Hitler remained a lifelong Christian.

I previosly indicated that "a pretty strong case can be built that Hitler never renounced his faith" then I later proceeded to lay out a few arguments in that case. I fully acknowledge that quotes can be shown, particularly from his table talks, that Hitler did renounce his faith, or that given his audience he made a variety of claims that met his purpose at the time. I additionally admit that arguments from either "side" as to which camp Hitler was truly in are dubious given the arguments that can be made for the other side.

As I mentioned previously it is not particularly relevant to my earlier argument if Hitler really was a Christian or an atheist, though it seems critical to Christians that Hitler be an atheist.

I do think that we can all agree that Hitler sported a mustache.

-ArtificialGrape

Roering
08-25-2011, 11:56
Hitler was most certainly not Atheist. He wasn't Catholic/Christian either. Hitler had actually formed his own unofficial state religion mixing Christianity (a lot of Catholic practices) along with some very old Germanic pagan practices. Strange stuff but he fancied himself as a sort of high priest. He was very in to the occult. The Catholic Church was right to not excommunicate him as there were a lot of Catholics living in the country. Such an act could have been a blanket death warrant. As it was, many were pressured to practice this "German Christianity".

Roering
08-25-2011, 11:57
Oh snap. Are you implying that I'm gay?

Worse, AG implies that you listen to Michael Bolton!:shocked:

Akil8290
08-25-2011, 12:20
Now, now. Israel is in the Middle East.;)

Israel? We won't go there.

Akil8290
08-25-2011, 12:21
How's the worlds friendliest Saracen today? Making any headway with your bretheren?

I'm alright, how are you doing?

Always. Of course, my bretheren doesn't include the terrorists.

Akil8290
08-25-2011, 12:24
[QUOTE=Cavalry Doc;17825456]Not all of them are terrorists. I've met many that aren't.QUOTE]

You just met another; I'm Akil, pleased to meet you.:wavey:

I don't deny the threat that the extremists pose; I'm trying to get it out there that Islam doesn't endorse acts of terror. I've had mixed results, most positive.

Akil8290
08-25-2011, 12:45
Welcome to the world of the digital watch. :)

Most kids have trouble telling time with a regular watch, and don't use watch based positional guidance. Tell them that you can use a watch to find which way is north, and they'll think you are pullin' their leg.

:rofl:
That's funny, but I think Paul is old enough to be my father.

1 old 0311
08-25-2011, 13:48
Almost every known case of a serial killer has been committed by a white male.

Personally, I keep a VERY close eye on white males whenever I come into contact with one.

Randy


Their the only ones smart enough to get away with it more than once?:dunno:

1 old 0311
08-25-2011, 13:49
I agree. Don't forget the Crusades. Tens of Billions were killed by Christians. :shocked:


"TENS OF BILLIONS?" Pretty amazing considering the earth's population was 450,000,000 at the time.:tongueout::tongueout::tongueout:

Ramjet38
08-25-2011, 17:50
I give up.

Simple minds have a mind of their own...or is it unknown? :faint:

Cavalry Doc
08-25-2011, 18:47
You just met another; I'm Akil, pleased to meet you.:wavey:

I don't deny the threat that the extremists pose; I'm trying to get it out there that Islam doesn't endorse acts of terror. I've had mixed results, most positive.

I wish you well on your endeavor. The battle will have to be fought everywhere all at once. If Islam does not endorse acts of terror, many of its Imams do. Each Imam in each Mosque will be different. Several of the failed suicide bombers we captured were basically misfit kids. They were targeted and strongly encouraged to kill themselves while killing as many others as they could. There are a lot of places where violence is encouraged. The fewer extremist Imams there are, the better reputation Islam will have.

You will likely continue to receive mixed results. Thanks for trying, don't give up.

Norske
08-25-2011, 19:04
Yet, people on here are convinced that those who reside in the Middle East and Muslims are all terrorists.

When the day comes that EACH AND EVERY TIME Muslim #1 jumps up and shouts, "Allahu Akbar -- let's go out and kill some infidels for the glory of Allah!" and then U]EACH AND EVERY TIME any Muslim #2 then jumps up and shoots Muslim #1 right in the head.....:faint:

THEN

I will consider that no Muslims are my enemies and are not potential terrorists.

I did not make Muslims my enemy.

They made me their enemy the day I rejected their cockamamie so-called "religion". :dunno:

All I ask is what that Canuckian writer asked.

To simply be left alone.

They beat him up because he simply told the truth and they cannot handle the truth.

Akil8290
08-25-2011, 19:59
I give up.

Simple minds have a mind of their own...or is it unknown? :faint:

For what its worth, I understood your sarcasm right from the get go; the "billions" number added to it gave it away, not to mention the context.

Looking at your avatar, I'm guessing you probably wouldn't p--- on me if I was on fire; even though as a moderate Muslim, I don't condone acts of terror.

Akil8290
08-25-2011, 20:10
When the day comes that EACH AND EVERY TIME Muslim #1 jumps up and shouts, "Allahu Akbar -- let's go out and kill some infidels for the glory of Allah!" and then U]EACH AND EVERY TIME any Muslim #2 then jumps up and shoots Muslim #1 right in the head....

You said this exact same line in another thread, then when challenged, proceded to tell a sob story about the pastor's kids getting braces and you didn't and how you think religion is a farce. Yadayadayada..who cares?

For the record: you made everyone your enemy. Typical Norske ideology: I was dumped on when I was kid, so the rest of the world should pay.:crying:

You exist, therefore you hate.

Nobody really gives a s--- if you hate Muslims/Jews/Christians/Hindus/Mormons; your hateful spiel on religion and faith is getting really tired. It adds nothing to the procedings and is almost totally irrelevant. Just saying.

kirgi08
08-25-2011, 20:14
tagged.

Akil8290
08-25-2011, 20:16
I wish you well on your endeavor. The battle will have to be fought everywhere all at once. If Islam does not endorse acts of terror, many of its Imams do. Each Imam in each Mosque will be different. Several of the failed suicide bombers we captured were basically misfit kids. They were targeted and strongly encouraged to kill themselves while killing as many others as they could. There are a lot of places where violence is encouraged. The fewer extremist Imams there are, the better reputation Islam will have.

You will likely continue to receive mixed results. Thanks for trying, don't give up.

I won't. You'd be surprised by some of the people that I have reached.

ancient_serpent
08-25-2011, 20:33
Akil, I appreciate what you're trying to do. I personally know many good, deeply caring muslim people I work with on a regular basis. While I know that there is hostility on both sides, and many, many differences, I respect that there are lots of good (muslim) people out there just trying to live their lives in peace. I hope that sentiment spreads more to all religions.

Cavalry Doc
08-25-2011, 20:58
I won't. You'd be surprised by some of the people that I have reached.

Doubt it. I've helped awaken captured car bombers. By caring for them & their injuries in a humane manner. Would have done it anyway, that's the job. In one case in particular, he gave us the location of the car bomb factory that hurt several of my friends. That problem was fixed.

Don't be discouraged.

Akil8290
08-25-2011, 21:21
Doubt it. I've helped awaken captured car bombers. By caring for them & their injuries in a humane manner. Would have done it anyway, that's the job. In one case in particular, he gave us the location of the car bomb factory that hurt several of my friends. That problem was fixed.

Don't be discouraged.

Thank you. You're a good man. There's always going to be the haters, on both sides; all we can do is transcend those that are like that.

Akil8290
08-25-2011, 21:26
Akil, I appreciate what you're trying to do. I personally know many good, deeply caring muslim people I work with on a regular basis. While I know that there is hostility on both sides, and many, many differences, I respect that there are lots of good (muslim) people out there just trying to live their lives in peace. I hope that sentiment spreads more to all religions.

I hope so, too. Thank you for the kind words.

F350
08-25-2011, 21:36
Originally Posted by creaky
This is nothing to fret over. There are only an infinitesimal number of extremists and the vast majority are just like Christians. Matter of fact, Christians are worse.

You're such a bigot, Don./QUOTE]


[QUOTE=Ramjet38;17823671]I agree. Don't forget the Crusades. Tens of millions were killed by Christians. :shocked:

YEA!!! Driving the invading MOOslums out of Europe!!!!

Cavalry Doc
08-25-2011, 21:38
Thank you. You're a good man. There's always going to be the haters, on both sides; all we can do is transcend those that are like that.

Hope I didn't give the wrong impression.

It depends on where you are at, and what is going on. I prefer peace, but I was a professional soldier for 20 years. I believe in giving a peace a chance, but when that is not possible :dunno:

If a Caucasian christian guy passed me on the street, I'll give the greeting of the day and smile as we pass.

Same guy threatens my family directly, and we are not going to have a good day.

Same goes for anyone, anywhere. I'm an equal opportunity reluctant survivalist.


Pretty sure, I almost got mugged in Atlanta a couple of weeks ago. I just smiled, looked him in the eye, and told him to have a real good day. We parted ways peacefully, because he allowed me to. If he had not, I had every intention of being the guy left to give the police the report.

Akil8290
08-25-2011, 21:59
Hope I didn't give the wrong impression.

It depends on where you are at, and what is going on. I prefer peace, but I was a professional soldier for 20 years. I believe in giving a peace a chance, but when that is not possible :dunno:

If a Caucasian christian guy passed me on the street, I'll give the greeting of the day and smile as we pass.

Same guy threatens my family directly, and we are not going to have a good day.

Same goes for anyone, anywhere. I'm an equal opportunity reluctant survivalist.


Pretty sure, I almost got mugged in Atlanta a couple of weeks ago. I just smiled, looked him in the eye, and told him to have a real good day. We parted ways peacefully, because he allowed me to. If he had not, I had every intention of being the guy left to give the police the report.

I agree 100%.

Paul7
08-26-2011, 06:30
Doubt it. I've helped awaken captured car bombers. By caring for them & their injuries in a humane manner. Would have done it anyway, that's the job. In one case in particular, he gave us the location of the car bomb factory that hurt several of my friends. That problem was fixed.



Then there is this lady: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8330374/ns/world_news-mideast_n_africa/t/descent-patient-suicide-bomber/

How do you deal with a mindset where someone goes back and bombs people who just saved her life?

Paul7
08-26-2011, 06:35
even though as a moderate Muslim, I don't condone acts of terror.

Non-Muslims really don't care which side of the Islam kill/peaceful debate are 'right', what we care about is that a whole lot disagree with you and are causing major trouble. They did what Hitler could not: kill 3,000 Americans on US soil. Sometimes the side that prevails is the one with the most power, not the one that is right.

What is odd to me is the relative silence of moderate Muslims in the face of this onslaught, maybe they are intimidated? I do know if extremists did in the name of Christianity one-tenth of what the Muslim extremists do, you'd have millions of Christians marching in the street, it not organizing to militarily put down the craziness.

Paul7
08-26-2011, 06:38
When the day comes that EACH AND EVERY TIME Muslim #1 jumps up and shouts, "Allahu Akbar -- let's go out and kill some infidels for the glory of Allah!" and then U]EACH AND EVERY TIME any Muslim #2 then jumps up and shoots Muslim #1 right in the head.....:faint:

THEN

I will consider that no Muslims are my enemies and are not potential terrorists.

I did not make Muslims my enemy.

They made me their enemy the day I rejected their cockamamie so-called "religion". :dunno:

All I ask is what that Canuckian writer asked.

To simply be left alone.

They beat him up because he simply told the truth and they cannot handle the truth.

The problem is wrong beliefs, not religion. Your fellow atheists running the Communist experiment killed more than all religions put together ever did.

Cavalry Doc
08-26-2011, 06:47
Then there is this lady: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8330374/ns/world_news-mideast_n_africa/t/descent-patient-suicide-bomber/

How do you deal with a mindset where someone goes back and bombs people who just saved her life?

Application of the law of land warfare. You keep them locked up until a formal cessation of hostilities. You also have to realize that these people have help. Liberal application of ordnance on the helpers tends to convince the ones you hit from having enough guts to do that again.

ArtificialGrape
08-26-2011, 08:59
The problem is wrong beliefs, not religion. Your fellow atheists running the Communist experiment killed more than all religions put together ever did.
I previously responded to this in another thread (http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=17824970#post17824970)There is an important distinction that you should look into between correlation and causation. Joseph Stalin, Adolf Hitler and Saddam Hussein all had mustaches, so I guess we should all be diligent in the lookout for moustachioed leaders.

I'm yet to see a coherent argument that the atrocities committed under atheist dictators were committed in the name of atheism.

Most often when somebody attempts to play the Hitler/Stalin card there is the basic premise that (1) lack of belief in god causes people to act immorally, and (2) the inverse that belief in God, specifically the Christian God, causes people to act morally.

This is quickly contradicted by the fact that there are atheists that do not commit atrocities, and there are theists that do.

So we have:
(1) atheists that commit atrocities
(2) atheists that do not commit atrocities
(3) theists that commit atrocities
(4) theists that do not commit atrocities

The existence of people in (2) and (3) contradicts the 2 initial premises. If we cannot conclude that it was their belief in God that caused theists to commit atrocities, then you cannot conclude that an atheists lack of belief in God caused them to commit their atrocities. So, there must be a difference between an atheist that commits atrocities and one that does not (and between a theist that commits atrocities and one that does not). The difference is clearly not the belief in God, so the difference must be something more personal like their own values/morality.

The millions of people that died at the hands of these dictators did not die because the leaders had become too rational, too skeptical or demanding of evidence supporting their core beliefs. In fact, these totalitarian leaders have more in common with religion -- with the leader serving in the role of God -- and each having their own dogma and ideology that must be obeyed without question.

Atrocities committed by these leaders, even when perpetuated against religion and the religious, were not committed in the name of atheism. The organization and power of religion was the threat, and threats to totalitarianism must be dealt with harshly.
So do you care to demonstrate causality, or just stick with your opinion which leaves the mustache argument equally valid.

-ArtificialGrape

Blast
08-26-2011, 09:51
Neverending strawman BS from... guess :rofl:



http://moms4change.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/Purple-Kool-Aid.jpg

ArtificialGrape
08-26-2011, 10:14
Neverending strawman BS from... guess :rofl:

http://moms4change.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/Purple-Kool-Aid.jpg
A strawman is falsely representing your opponents view, so that you can tear down the strawman. Can you show me where I've done that?

thanks,
-ArtificialGrape

ArtificialGrape
08-26-2011, 17:17
http://moms4change.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/Purple-Kool-Aid.jpg
And thanks for the avatar pointer -- crash! bang! boom! :cool:

nmk
08-26-2011, 19:35
I previously responded to this in another thread (http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=17824970#post17824970)There is an important distinction that you should look into between correlation and causation. Joseph Stalin, Adolf Hitler and Saddam Hussein all had mustaches, so I guess we should all be diligent in the lookout for moustachioed leaders.

I'm yet to see a coherent argument that the atrocities committed under atheist dictators were committed in the name of atheism.

Most often when somebody attempts to play the Hitler/Stalin card there is the basic premise that (1) lack of belief in god causes people to act immorally, and (2) the inverse that belief in God, specifically the Christian God, causes people to act morally.

This is quickly contradicted by the fact that there are atheists that do not commit atrocities, and there are theists that do.

So we have:
(1) atheists that commit atrocities
(2) atheists that do not commit atrocities
(3) theists that commit atrocities
(4) theists that do not commit atrocities

The existence of people in (2) and (3) contradicts the 2 initial premises. If we cannot conclude that it was their belief in God that caused theists to commit atrocities, then you cannot conclude that an atheists lack of belief in God caused them to commit their atrocities. So, there must be a difference between an atheist that commits atrocities and one that does not (and between a theist that commits atrocities and one that does not). The difference is clearly not the belief in God, so the difference must be something more personal like their own values/morality.

The millions of people that died at the hands of these dictators did not die because the leaders had become too rational, too skeptical or demanding of evidence supporting their core beliefs. In fact, these totalitarian leaders have more in common with religion -- with the leader serving in the role of God -- and each having their own dogma and ideology that must be obeyed without question.

Atrocities committed by these leaders, even when perpetuated against religion and the religious, were not committed in the name of atheism. The organization and power of religion was the threat, and threats to totalitarianism must be dealt with harshly.
So do you care to demonstrate causality, or just stick with your opinion which leaves the mustache argument equally valid.

-ArtificialGrape

In addition to this, it is beyond statistically stupid to take a few atheist leaders and a few christian leaders and claim that one type is more likely to kill more than the other. Yet the comparisons continue.

Cavalry Doc
08-26-2011, 20:37
In addition to this, it is beyond statistically stupid to take a few atheist leaders and a few christian leaders and claim that one type is more likely to kill more than the other. Yet the comparisons continue.

I've some personal experience in the area within the last decade.
More Muslims have tried to kill me than Christians. The number is more than one on both sides, but there is a large margin. Still, I'm responsible for more Muslims being alive after we parted ways than not, even if they were trying to kill me previously.

I don't qualify anyone as "NOT" a threat based on their religion.


Maybe my military training, but for the most part, we were instructed to tell people we met, that we can be your best friend, or your worst enemy, your choice.

I'm much more moderate now.

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p158/CavalryDoc/CavDoc-2.gif

kirgi08
08-26-2011, 21:33
You know whats the funny part/not so in our cases,is that most have never heard shots fired in anger.That changes ones views in a hurry.'08.

Blast
08-26-2011, 21:43
I previously responded to this in another thread (http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=17824970#post17824970)There is an important distinction that you should look into between correlation and causation. Joseph Stalin, Adolf Hitler and Saddam Hussein all had mustaches, so I guess we should all be diligent in the lookout for moustachioed leaders.

I'm yet to see a coherent argument that the atrocities committed under atheist dictators were committed in the name of atheism.

Most often when somebody attempts to play the Hitler/Stalin card there is the basic premise that (1) lack of belief in god causes people to act immorally, and (2) the inverse that belief in God, specifically the Christian God, causes people to act morally.

This is quickly contradicted by the fact that there are atheists that do not commit atrocities, and there are theists that do.

So we have:
(1) atheists that commit atrocities
(2) atheists that do not commit atrocities
(3) theists that commit atrocities
(4) theists that do not commit atrocities

The existence of people in (2) and (3) contradicts the 2 initial premises. If we cannot conclude that it was their belief in God that caused theists to commit atrocities, then you cannot conclude that an atheists lack of belief in God caused them to commit their atrocities. So, there must be a difference between an atheist that commits atrocities and one that does not (and between a theist that commits atrocities and one that does not). The difference is clearly not the belief in God, so the difference must be something more personal like their own values/morality.

The millions of people that died at the hands of these dictators did not die because the leaders had become too rational, too skeptical or demanding of evidence supporting their core beliefs. In fact, these totalitarian leaders have more in common with religion -- with the leader serving in the role of God -- and each having their own dogma and ideology that must be obeyed without question.

Atrocities committed by these leaders, even when perpetuated against religion and the religious, were not committed in the name of atheism. The organization and power of religion was the threat, and threats to totalitarianism must be dealt with harshly.
So do you care to demonstrate causality, or just stick with your opinion which leaves the mustache argument equally valid.

-ArtificialGrape
The above strawman BS.:upeyes:
But then again you are misguided by serious psychological issues and failings.

Keep drinking that kool-aid. It has been quite entertaining to say the least.

I neglected to mention your alter-ego...

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_mJ4lc_Q9Q6k/RwkSbpExJcI/AAAAAAAAINI/cgdYpGy57yM/s400/pac01.jpg

:rofl:

steveksux
08-26-2011, 22:01
A strawman is falsely representing your opponents view, so that you can tear down the strawman. Can you show me where I've done that?

thanks,
-ArtificialGrapeNo, he cannot. Obviously. Or he would do that instead of posting pictures.

Randy

ArtificialGrape
08-26-2011, 22:22
The above strawman BS.:upeyes:
But then again you are misguided by serious psychological issues and failings.

As previously explained and requested (http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=17830562#post17830562), "a strawman is falsely representing your opponents view, so that you can tear down the strawman. Can you show me where I've done that?"

I can understand the confusion since your understanding of a strawman seems to come from this:
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu56/MightyCats/TheStrawman.jpg

I thought that I would save you a few minutes from having to dig that one up.

With that out of the way, can you explain where I've made a strawman argument -- use your words.

thanks,
-ArtificialGrape

Ramjet38
08-27-2011, 17:54
For what its worth, I understood your sarcasm right from the get go; the "billions" number added to it gave it away, not to mention the context.

Looking at your avatar, I'm guessing you probably wouldn't p--- on me if I was on fire; even though as a moderate Muslim, I don't condone acts of terror.

Well then you would be wrong because I would be very happy to pis_ on you. :tongueout:

No seriously, I have a dear friend that is Muslim and his first name is Ali. He is from Iran and was and officer under the Shah. I have known him for many years and consider him a dear friend. I know right from wrong.

On another note: Why would you be upset at my avatar? Do you think we should let bygones be bygones?

Akil8290
08-27-2011, 17:57
Well then you would be wrong because I would be very happy to pis_ on you. :tongueout:

No, seriously have a dear friend that is Muslim and his first name is Ali. He is from Iran and was and officer under the Shah. I have known him for many years and consider him a dear friend. I know right from wrong.

I'm not into golden showers or anything, but I appreciate that.:tongueout:

That's cool. Like your friend Ali, most of us really are good people.

I'm not upset by your avatar; I really am all about letting bygones be bygones in the sense that we as Muslims should stop being blamed. Islam is 100% against terrorism; its these fringe people that use it as a platform to spread their hate. Its just that when I see that, your avatar, it reminds me of the people that say, "All I ever needed to learn about Islam, I learned on 9/11."

Ramjet38
08-27-2011, 19:13
I'm not into golden showers or anything, but I appreciate that.:tongueout:

That's cool. Like your friend Ali, most of us really are good people.

I'm not upset by your avatar; I really am all about letting bygones be bygones in the sense that we as Muslims should stop being blamed. Islam is 100% against terrorism; its these fringe people that use it as a platform to spread their hate. Its just that when I see that, your avatar, it reminds me of the people that say, "All I ever needed to learn about Islam, I learned on 9/11."

I'm afraid you won't be able to surpass the stigma. Right or wrong you will in someways always be attached to Islamo Facisism just as white Causcasians conservatives are attached to the stigma as slave owners, biggots, and racist.

We as Americans cannot let bygones be bygones, for we were attacked and our only recourse is to make the extremist pay. It's not over for extremist, for they want to kill as many Americans as they can. Look at Ahmadinejad. He wants to wipe Israel off the map and kill Westerners.

That's what you have to be associated with, and the problem is there are none of you condeming this. None are condeming the Imam's that are ranting and raving, and using their Mosque as breeding grounds. We also have to hear about honor killings, and wanting Sharia law to be the law of the land for all muslims in the U.S. Even for American born...cannot happen...ever.

If a muslim wants to be in America then you live by American law and Love of Country. That's what my friend does and how he feels. He became a citizen and loves the freedom this country has to offer.

Akil8290
08-27-2011, 19:28
I'm afraid you won't be able to surpass the stigma. Right or wrong you will in someways always be attached to Islamo Facisism just as white Causcasians conservatives are attached to the stigma as slave owners, biggots, and racist.

We as Americans cannot let bygones be bygones, for we were attacked and our only recourse is to make the extremist pay. It's not over for extremist, for they want to kill as many Americans as they can. Look at Ahmadinejad. He wants to wipe Israel off the map and kill Westerners.

That's what you have to be associated with, and the problem is there are none of you condeming this. None are condeming the Imam's that are ranting and raving, and using their Mosque as breeding grounds. We also have to hear about honor killings, and wanting Sharia law to be the law of the land for all muslims in the U.S. Even for American born...cannot happen...ever.

If a muslim wants to be in America then you live by American law and Love of Country. That's what my friend does and how he feels. He became a citizen and loves the freedom this country has to offer.

Actually many of us do openly condemn terrorism. Grand Mufti Ali Gomaa in Egypt said, "Terrorists are criminals, not Muslim activists." Even Grand Ayatollah Ali Khamenei condemned the 9/11 attacks as being against the teachings of Islam. There are so many more, but no one hears us! So where can we go with that?

I'm an American; born and raised here in Colorado. Muslims are required to obey the laws of the lands they live in. I don't deny there's extremists and the dangers they pose, but I won't appologize for something I didn't do, either!

Ogreon
08-27-2011, 22:27
Most often when somebody attempts to play the Hitler/Stalin card there is the basic premise that (1) lack of belief in god causes people to act immorally, and (2) the inverse that belief in God, specifically the Christian God, causes people to act morally.


When I play the Lenin/Stalin/Mao card it is in response to a false dogma. "If only we could all be atheists, then peace would reign supreme in the world." Or "Religion has killed more people than all other causes combined." (Despite the fact that most wars have not been religious wars.)

ArtificialGrape
08-27-2011, 22:54
When I play the Lenin/Stalin/Mao card it is in response to a false dogma. "If only we could all be atheists, then peace would reign supreme in the world." Or "Religion has killed more people than all other causes combined." (Despite the fact that most wars have not been religious wars.)
I don't believe that you will find where I have advanced either of the arguments that you specified above, however, regardless of what leads you to play the Lenin/Stalin/Mao card, causality must be demonstrated beyond mere correlation.

-ArtificialGrape

Ogreon
08-27-2011, 23:25
I don't believe that you will find where I have advanced either of the arguments that you specified above, however, regardless of what leads you to play the Lenin/Stalin/Mao card, causality must be demonstrated beyond mere correlation.

-ArtificialGrape

I'm not suggesting that you have (I haven't read the other thread), merely that that is when I use it.

I'm not claiming causality. I'm pointing out that the other claim is faulty.

What I'm claiming is that evil is endemic to the human condition. As long as this world exists, there will be evil and changing everyone's religious affiliation will not alter this.

Evil is so pervasive, that it takes great effort to combat it in myself without worrying about fixing anyone else. If I'm going to fix the evil in you, then I need dictatorial power to even begin to make the attempt. Which leads to even greater evil. This is why I do not support any of the Progressive Utopians whether atheist or theist.

Norske
08-28-2011, 22:13
The problem is wrong beliefs, not religion. Your fellow atheists running the Communist experiment killed more than all religions put together ever did.

The fight is between the suppression of the liberties of the individual versus the submergence of the individual into the mass.

Whether it is religion or communism, it is the same; the individual has no rights. IN theory, the mass has all authority. But in fact, that authority is always wielded by a self-chosen elite. Imams. Nazi Party. Communist party. Kings. Emporers.

No evil is impossible when the individual can blame the mass for his own sins.

What is the difference between an Inquisitor burning a heretic at the stake or Einsatztruppen hearding Jews into gas chambers or a Red Guard hearding Kulaks into boxcars for transport to Siberia to count trees and starve?

Atheist Communists and religious fanatics are more alike than different.

The greatest evil is always done in the name of some "greater good".

steveksux
08-28-2011, 22:44
Atheist Communists and religious fanatics are more alike than different.

The greatest evil is always done in the name of some "greater good".And always done to a scapegoated minority. Whatever group is the popular villain du jour of the era.

Randy

Blast
08-28-2011, 23:00
I'm not suggesting that you have (I haven't read the other thread), merely that that is when I use it.

I'm not claiming causality. I'm pointing out that the other claim is faulty.

What I'm claiming is that evil is endemic to the human condition. As long as this world exists, there will be evil and changing everyone's religious affiliation will not alter this.

Evil is so pervasive, that it takes great effort to combat it in myself without worrying about fixing anyone else. If I'm going to fix the evil in you, then I need dictatorial power to even begin to make the attempt. Which leads to even greater evil. This is why I do not support any of the Progressive Utopians whether atheist or theist.

:goodpost:

Blast
08-28-2011, 23:26
The fight is between the suppression of the liberties of the individual versus the submergence of the individual into the mass.

Whether it is religion or communism, it is the same; the individual has no rights. IN theory, the mass has all authority. But in fact, that authority is always wielded by a self-chosen elite. Imams. Nazi Party. Communist party. Kings. Emporers.

No evil is impossible when the individual can blame the mass for his own sins.

What is the difference between an Inquisitor burning a heretic at the stake or Einsatztruppen hearding Jews into gas chambers or a Red Guard hearding Kulaks into boxcars for transport to Siberia to count trees and starve?

Atheist Communists and religious fanatics are more alike than different.

The greatest evil is always done in the name of some "greater good".
Has merit. Fanatics are bad for any ideology. However, with Judaism, Christianity, Buddism, and some others that are not under rule of force, the masses can choose to accept or reject such without being incarcerated or killed. It is human nature to screw up an ideology to suit an agenda. Usually based on greed and lust for power... which comes naturally to humans.

And if anyone thinks that atheists are immune to fanaticism, they need only to review this forum.:rofl:

Paul7
08-29-2011, 14:51
Application of the law of land warfare. You keep them locked up until a formal cessation of hostilities. You also have to realize that these people have help. Liberal application of ordnance on the helpers tends to convince the ones you hit from having enough guts to do that again.

I'm not sure that works on people who welcome death and think they are martyrs. Are they in for a big surprise. That being said, yes we should kill all the extremists we can get in our bombsites.

snowbird
09-03-2011, 16:03
Joseph Stalin, Adolf Hitler and Saddam Hussein all had mustaches, so I guess we should all be diligent in the lookout for moustachioed leaders.

I'm yet to see a coherent argument that the atrocities committed under atheist dictators were committed in the name of atheism.

If a Christian leader does evil, it's because he has rejected God and the tenets of Christianity. Christianity's worst misdeed, the Spanish Inquisition, killed a few thousand people over more than three centuries.

Atheism rejects God and His commandments from the onset, so it's not surprising when atheist leaders, moustachioed or otherwise, produce evil at incredible levels. Vox Day noted that fifty-two Marxist atheists ruled twenty-eight countries between 1917 and 2007, and murdered about 148 million people. So the historical record shows that collective atheism is 182,716 times worse, on an annual basis, than Christianity's worst, or, the average atheist crime against humanity is 18.3 million percent worse than Christianity's worst depredation. These statistics seem significant in pointing towards atheism, with its rejection of God, causing bad outcomes.

Solzhenitsyn put it this way; when he was a child, old people explained the great disasters that befell Russia by saying, "Men have forgotten God; that's why all this has happened". Solzhenitsyn then spent half a century studying history, reading hundreds of books, collecting many personal testimonies, and writing many volumes of his own, but he said that he could not improve on what those wise old Christian folks of his boyhood had said, "Men have forgotten God; that's why all this has happened".

This thread is supposed to be about Islam's violence. Jesus never killed anyone (Mohammed slit throats in his caravan robberies and had a whole Jewish tribe's adult males murdered, among other killings of "unbelievers" he instigated), and Christianity took 300 years before any killings began, which were against God's will. Islam was born in bloodshed, with Allah's blessings, and has not stopped murdering to this day (9/11, Bali bombing, Madrid, Beslan -remember all those little Russian schoolkids raped and murdered?, London, what happened to Theo van Gogh as he peacefully rode his bicycle in Amsterdam, etc).

Cavalry Doc
09-03-2011, 16:37
I'm not sure that works on people who welcome death and think they are martyrs. Are they in for a big surprise. That being said, yes we should kill all the extremists we can get in our bombsites.

The ones we keep locked up, may change their mind, maybe not, but who cares, they are not doing anything or going anywhere.

The ones we kill, well, they know whether there are 72 virgins waiting for them or not.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-wVjN0NBuR-0/Tb6-alFeK2I/AAAAAAAACT4/CyCrWVAiWgc/s1600/72virgins.jpeg

http://maggiesfarm.anotherdotcom.com/uploads/72Virgins.jpg

Ramjet38
09-03-2011, 17:46
The ones we kill, well, they know whether there are 72 virgins waiting for them or not.

http://maggiesfarm.anotherdotcom.com/uploads/72Virgins.jpg


:rofl:

Those camels were to ride to town.

Norske
09-03-2011, 19:29
By the time of Mohammed, what was left of the once-mighty "Roman Empire" had split into two.

Roman Cathlocism that controlled the "Western" Roman Empire and the Byzantines (Eastern Orthodox) in the "Eastern" Roman Empire, based in Constantinople.

Islam expanded into the lands held by the Byzantines.

The Roman Catholics could have hardly cared less at the time.

There was very little love lost between the two halves of the Roman Empire.

It took another 600 years before the Western Roman Catholics, mostly led by the French, tried to take back the former Eastern Orthodox lands. Mostly because by that time, Islam was starting to encroach Roman Catholic lands.

The Crusades.

With a 600 year hiatus, Islam had pretty much sewed up the conquests they had taken from the Byzantines. The Crusades attacked into an enemy that had the "home field advantage" which is pretty much why the Crusades ultimately failed.

Islam's success in the Crusades ultimately led to the resulting success of the Christian Europeans.

Islam lay astride the trade routes between Europe and the Far East. They profited mightily by taking tolls of the resulting trade across their lands.

The Europeans, stymied, started feeling for an "end around" the Islam held lands.

They developed Ocean going ships, capable of weathering the nasty weather on the Atlantic and Indian Oceans. U]Just [/U]as importantly, methods to navigate out of sight of land. Europeans finally made their way around Africa and reached the East Indies that way, firmly breaking the former Islamic control of the trade. And cutting off their primary source of funds.

By this time, the ocean going ships were armed with broadside cannon that were not a factor during the Crusades.

Islam had not needed ocean going ships and so never developed them. Mediterannean "galley" style ships were all Islam needed both in the Med as well as to conduct the trade down the coast of India.

When the Portugese finally reached India, their broad-side firing sailing ships just kicked the guano out of the Islamic galleys, at the battle of Diu. And the Ports were followed by the Dutch, English, French, you name it European powers.

And later, the Europeans kicked the guano out of Islam in the Med at Lepanto.

Of course, the Ocean going ships were soon going around, and colonizing, the rest of the entire world.

While Islam was pretty much bottled up in the lands it was able to take prior to that point.

European technology has pretty much kept Islam bottled up ever since -- and Islam does not like that fact.

Islam still believes that Islam has been promised, by Allah, to eventually take over the entire world and convert it to Islam. "The Will of Allah cannot be denied".

Which is why we still see things like 9-11-01.

They can still sting us. They thought 9-11-01 would bring the West to it's knees.

As horrific as 9/11/01 was, it sure was not the knock-out blow they thought it would be.

Iraq. Afganistan. Seal Team 6 taking OBL face to face in Pakistan.

But they will keep trying to sting us.

And those on both sides will keep on dying as a result.

When, not if, they finally get Nukes, a lot MORE will die.

But that still will not be enough to make up for their fundamental inferiority.

It took Pearl Harbor to finally P off the USA enough that the final result was mushroom clouds over two Japanese cities.

Islam would be wise to back off before mushroom clouds over American cities again force us to again teach the lesson Japan learned the hard way.

Cavalry Doc
09-03-2011, 19:44
:rofl:

Those camels were to ride to town.

That's an awful lot of pushing to get all the way to town. :dunno:

snowbird
09-04-2011, 16:41
And always done to a scapegoated minority. Whatever group is the popular villain du jour of the era.

Randy

Why is it that lefties scapegoat Christians and conservative folks?

But the Bible already answered that; "And the light shineth in the darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not" (John 1:5).

Animal Mother
09-04-2011, 21:15
If a Christian leader does evil, it's because he has rejected God and the tenets of Christianity. Christianity's worst misdeed, the Spanish Inquisition, killed a few thousand people over more than three centuries. Slavery, colonialism, and genocide were all justified using the Bible. While the Inquisition was abominable, it hardly qualifies as "Christianity's worst misdeed".

snowbird
09-05-2011, 09:38
Slavery, colonialism, and genocide were all justified using the Bible. While the Inquisition was abominable, it hardly qualifies as "Christianity's worst misdeed".

More leftist lies.

There is nothing inherently wrong with a colony, a community of people of the same nationality or pursuits concentrated in a particular district (as long as they're not a bunch of criminals, or trying to overthrow our Constitutional freedoms, or destroy the family unit). But the left has perverted this, as it does with so many things, into suggesting economic exploitation. Where does the Bible justify economically exploiting others? It doesn't. In fact, Jesus commanded the exact opposite, "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!" (the leftist elites of His day) "for ye devour widows' houses".

The Bile also does not justify genocide in general. The Old Testament records instances of God's judgement on certain sinful peoples, but that was confined to then (3000+ years ago) and there. Christianity has never condoned genocide, unlike your leftist communism, and the Islam that leftist dhimmis shill so much for nowadays.

And the Bible does not advocate for slavery, it merely accepted it as a fact of life back then. Does "Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself" sound like a justification for slavery to you? Galatians 3:28, "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Jesus Christ", means that although distinctions of ethnic, social, and sexual groups remain in this earthly life, we are all equal in the sight of God. Christians in England and America in the 18th and 19th centuries ended slavery in the West. But your leftist communists, and leftist National SOCIALISTS of the 1930s and 1940s, enslaved countless millions, and so does the Islam you toady for today.

kirgi08
09-05-2011, 10:03
:goodpost: :agree:

steveksux
09-05-2011, 10:25
Why is it that lefties scapegoat Christians and conservative folks?Same reason you scapegoat Muslims en masse. Ignorace.

But the Bible already answered that; "And the light shineth in the darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not" (John 1:5).
Too bad you don't read your own posts.

Randy

kirgi08
09-05-2011, 10:48
In the last 10 years whom has the most lurid AARs.'08.

snowbird
09-05-2011, 13:45
Same reason you scapegoat Muslims en masse. Ignorace.

So you're confessing that you are ignorant? I'm impressed, that's genuine progress!

And I agree with you that when lefties scapegoat Christians and conservative folks, they are indeed being ignorant. But I have to disagree that counterjihadists are "scapegoating" Muslims. You see, when we correctly point out the evil philosophy of the Koran and mainstream Islam, which victimizes fellow Muslims as well, jihadists aren't the victims -we are!

Consider these recent facts (and I've left out all the tons of violence done in Muslim-majority countries):

Aug 30, in Chechnya -3 Muslims self-detonated among a bustling street crowd, killing 9.
Aug 29, in Nigeria -a Christian pastor who preached religious tolerance was hacked to death by Muslims, along with his son, at their church.
Aug 29, in Israel -a Palestinian Muslim shouting, "Allahu Akbar!" stabbed 8 nearby Israelis.
Aug 28, in Thailand -Muslim 'rebels' killed a plantation worker with a bomb.
Aug 27, in Thailand -a 24 yr old civilian was shot to death by Muslim gunmen.
Aug 26, in Thailand -Muslim 'insurgents' shot a Buddhist laborer to death.
Aug 26, in Nigeria -over 2 dozen people at a UN building housing humanitarian agencies were crushed to death by a Muslim suicide car bomber.
Aug 26, in Norway -a Christian convert from Islam was scalded with boiling water and acid by Muslims at a refugee center.

See any pattern here? Is the fog of ignorance lifting? I sure hope so.

steveksux
09-05-2011, 15:01
So you're confessing that you are ignorant? I'm impressed, that's genuine progress!

And I agree with you that when lefties scapegoat Christians and conservative folks, they are indeed being ignorant. But I have to disagree that counterjihadists are "scapegoating" Muslims. You see, when we correctly point out the evil philosophy of the Koran and mainstream Islam, which victimizes fellow Muslims as well, jihadists aren't the victims -we are!

Consider these recent facts (and I've left out all the tons of violence done in Muslim-majority countries):

Aug 30, in Chechnya -3 Muslims self-detonated among a bustling street crowd, killing 9.
Aug 29, in Nigeria -a Christian pastor who preached religious tolerance was hacked to death by Muslims, along with his son, at their church.
Aug 29, in Israel -a Palestinian Muslim shouting, "Allahu Akbar!" stabbed 8 nearby Israelis.
Aug 28, in Thailand -Muslim 'rebels' killed a plantation worker with a bomb.
Aug 27, in Thailand -a 24 yr old civilian was shot to death by Muslim gunmen.
Aug 26, in Thailand -Muslim 'insurgents' shot a Buddhist laborer to death.
Aug 26, in Nigeria -over 2 dozen people at a UN building housing humanitarian agencies were crushed to death by a Muslim suicide car bomber.
Aug 26, in Norway -a Christian convert from Islam was scalded with boiling water and acid by Muslims at a refugee center.

See any pattern here? Is the fog of ignorance lifting? I sure hope so.
I do see a pattern of 1 billion Muslims not blowing things up. A city full of Muslims in the US, Dearborn, with no sharia law or problems from Muslims blowing things up. Their worst menace appears to be behind the wheel, they can't drive worth a damn. that's about it so far.

I see a pattern from you as well.

Randy

snowbird
09-06-2011, 09:40
I do see a pattern of 1 billion Muslims not blowing things up. A city full of Muslims in the US, Dearborn, with no sharia law or problems from Muslims blowing things up. Their worst menace appears to be behind the wheel, they can't drive worth a damn. that's about it so far.

I see a pattern from you as well.

Randy

17,704 deadly Muslim attacks since 9/11, as of today, and you say you can't see them blowing things up? Maybe you should go to another ophthamologist for a second opinion. Or a psychiatrist.

And speaking of menaces behind the wheel who "can't drive worth a damn", your President Obama's illegal immigrant (from Kenya, where else? Hawaii, you say?) Uncle Onyango Obama, who was ordered deported in the 1990s, but has been allowed to thumb his nose at our 'infidel laws', was recently out drunk-driving in our streets, endangering innocent Americans, including the LEO he almost ran over. But dhimmis see no problems here, right?

Your President Obama is now demanding Israel apologize for defending itself against jihad attackers. But dhimmis see no problems here, right?

An imam in Australia, Shiekh Taj El-Din Hamid "Catmeat" Hilaly, preached at us, "If you place uncovered meat in the street...cats will come and eat it...whose fault is it, the cats or the uncovered meat?" He was referring to white western girls in summer attire getting raped by Muslim thug immigrants. They weren't properly covered in hijabs or burkas, you see, so it was their fault. Heck, women shouldn't even be allowed outside their homes without being escorted by male family members, according to your Islam.

I'm glad you see a pattern in me...of defending freedom against tyranny. President Jefferson was faced with Muslim tyranny in the Mediterranean, and he sent the Marines. We need a lot more Jeffersons today, and a lot fewer Obamas.

Cavalry Doc
09-06-2011, 10:35
17,704 deadly Muslim attacks since 9/11, as of today, and you say you can't see them blowing things up? Maybe you should go to another ophthamologist for a second opinion. Or a psychiatrist.

And speaking of menaces behind the wheel who "can't drive worth a damn", your President Obama's illegal immigrant (from Kenya, where else? Hawaii, you say?) Uncle Onyango Obama, who was ordered deported in the 1990s, but has been allowed to thumb his nose at our 'infidel laws', was recently out drunk-driving in our streets, endangering innocent Americans, including the LEO he almost ran over. But dhimmis see no problems here, right?

Your President Obama is now demanding Israel apologize for defending itself against jihad attackers. But dhimmis see no problems here, right?

An imam in Australia, Shiekh Taj El-Din Hamid "Catmeat" Hilaly, preached at us, "If you place uncovered meat in the street...cats will come and eat it...whose fault is it, the cats or the uncovered meat?" He was referring to white western girls in summer attire getting raped by Muslim thug immigrants. They weren't properly covered in hijabs or burkas, you see, so it was their fault. Heck, women shouldn't even be allowed outside their homes without being escorted by male family members, according to your Islam.

I'm glad you see a pattern in me...of defending freedom against tyranny. President Jefferson was faced with Muslim tyranny in the Mediterranean, and he sent the Marines. We need a lot more Jeffersons today, and a lot fewer Obamas.

That was very odd of Jefferson, bein' all "interventionist" and all.

steveksux
09-06-2011, 18:46
I'm glad you see a pattern in me...of defending freedom against tyranny. President Jefferson was faced with Muslim tyranny in the Mediterranean, and he sent the Marines. We need a lot more Jeffersons today, and a lot fewer Obamas.What would you suggest we do with the tens of thousands of Muslims in Dearborn who've done nothing wrong for a couple of generations now? Many thousands of whom are either natural born or naturalized US citizens?

Randy

snowbird
09-07-2011, 10:25
What would you suggest we do with the tens of thousands of Muslims in Dearborn who've done nothing wrong for a couple of generations now? Many thousands of whom are either natural born or naturalized US citizens?

Randy

The 9/11 hijackers had no criminal backgrounds either. Mohammed said, "War is deceit".

Did we let Nazis immigrate here during WW2? Then let them organize on grounds of "multiculturalism"?

How about we, first, wake up and realize they're at war with us. Then get serious about resisting Islamization. Stop Islamic immigration. Stand up for freedom, and against sharia. Reclassify Islamic organizations as political, not religious, because that's the truth. Don't let any more imams preach Islamic hatred and warfare to our black prison population. Get the traitors out of Congress, our judiciary, our schools and defund news/entertainment media -the ones who teach that America is bad, Christianity is bad, but Islam is good, socialism is good, and homosexuality is good. Get the unvetted Marxist Muslim out of our White House. Stop foreign aid to jihadist lands.

Call it a crusade.

Paul7
09-07-2011, 10:30
What would you suggest we do with the tens of thousands of Muslims in Dearborn who've done nothing wrong for a couple of generations now?

Watch them closely, and prosecute to the fullest extent of the law those who violate OUR laws.

Many thousands of whom are either natural born or naturalized US citizens?

Many such persons have committed terror crimes.

Cavalry Doc
09-07-2011, 17:31
Watch them closely, and prosecute to the fullest extent of the law those who violate OUR laws.



Many such persons have committed terror crimes.



That's fair.

steveksux
09-07-2011, 21:27
Stand up for freedom, and against sharia. I asked before for any example anywhere in the US where sharia law was in effect. Funny how you could never provide any examples. Funny how the same Constitution that prevents Christian prayers in classrooms is going to somehow allow sharia law... How do you figure that's going to happen?? :rofl::rofl::rofl:

Randy

Paul7
09-07-2011, 21:33
I asked before for any example anywhere in the US where sharia law was in effect. Funny how you could never provide any examples. Funny how the same Constitution that prevents Christian prayers in classrooms

According to a bad SCOTUS decision.

is going to somehow allow sharia law... How do you figure that's going to happen?? :rofl::rofl::rofl:

Randy

Apparently, the New York Times welcomes Sharia law:

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2011/09/nyt-op-ed-defends-sharia-in-america-without-ever-addressing-its-contents.html

Animal Mother
09-07-2011, 22:58
Apparently, the New York Times welcomes Sharia law:

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2011/09/nyt-op-ed-defends-sharia-in-america-without-ever-addressing-its-contents.html Apparently, you didn't read the article on which you're commenting. At least, not the part that reads, " A recent Pew Research Center poll found that Muslim Americans exhibit the highest level of integration among major American religious groups, expressing greater degrees of tolerance toward people of other faiths than do Protestants, Catholics or Jews.
Given time, American Muslims, like all other religious minorities before them, will adjust their legal and theological traditions, if necessary, to accord with American values...."

Cavalry Doc
09-08-2011, 03:42
According to a bad SCOTUS decision.



Apparently, the New York Times welcomes Sharia law:

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2011/09/nyt-op-ed-defends-sharia-in-america-without-ever-addressing-its-contents.html

Here's your example.
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2010/07/sharia-islamic-law-in-new-jersey-court-muslim-husband-rapes-beats-sexually-abuses-wife-judge-sees-no.html

creaky
09-08-2011, 09:50
Apparently, you didn't read the article on which you're commenting. At least, not the part that reads, " A recent Pew Research Center poll found that Muslim Americans exhibit the highest level of integration among major American religious groups, expressing greater degrees of tolerance toward people of other faiths than do Protestants, Catholics or Jews.
Given time, American Muslims, like all other religious minorities before them, will adjust their legal and theological traditions, if necessary, to accord with American values...."

And we know from history that these adjustments will only last until the population of the saracen reaches a certain percentage.

In Europe for example, the host countries, until recently for some, have been making adjustments to accommodate the vocal and destructive (fast growing)minority. We seem to be following suit.

snowbird
09-08-2011, 10:12
Muslim Americans exhibit the highest level of integration among major American religious groups, expressing greater degrees of tolerance toward people of other faiths than do Protestants, Catholics or Jews.

Meanwhile, in Delhi, a suitcase bomb exploded outside the high court today, killing at least 11 people and wounding about 100. The group claiming responsibility call themselves Harkat ul Jihad Islami.

Do you think there's any chance they might be Muslim?

Do you think they might follow that same Koran that says "Slay the infidel" as your "integrated" American Muslims?

So you're saying we should just keep on letting swarms of them immigrate here because we have your say-so that these ones actually are peaceful, unlike all those other ones in the world for the last 14 centuries?

kirgi08
09-08-2011, 10:17
I was waiting ta see whom took credit.'08.

Paul7
09-08-2011, 10:26
Apparently, you didn't read the article on which you're commenting. At least, not the part that reads, " A recent Pew Research Center poll found that Muslim Americans exhibit the highest level of integration among major American religious groups, expressing greater degrees of tolerance toward people of other faiths than do Protestants, Catholics or Jews.
Given time, American Muslims, like all other religious minorities before them, will adjust their legal and theological traditions, if necessary, to accord with American values...."

Nonsense, like the rest of the article. Is this your idea of tolerance and integration?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nidal_Malik_Hasan

snowbird
09-08-2011, 10:31
I asked before for any example anywhere in the US where sharia law was in effect. Funny how you could never provide any examples. Funny how the same Constitution that prevents Christian prayers in classrooms is going to somehow allow sharia law... How do you figure that's going to happen?? :rofl::rofl::rofl:

Randy

YOU are an example of sharia law being in effect in America.

That's right. Sharia commands that infidels may not criticize Islam at all, and you are volunteering to help enforce that by attacking and ridiculing counterjihadists who point out the evil in the Koran and its sharia law.

We can only afford dhimmi-style ignorance in times of peace.

More sharia in America can be seen in Obama's and Eric (Don't-Charge-the-Black-Panthers) Holder's DOJ, which is in bed with Islamic supremacist groups. It seems they've been extending certain civil-rights laws to Muslims in voting. They want to make a 'religious' (my quotes indicate my skepticism that it's a religion instead of a fascist form of politics) status into a racial one to create majority-Muslim legislative districts.

Mind you, this DOJ shady sharia activity only happens when they're not busy shipping guns to Mexican drug thugs, which later show up in Illinois and Indianna.:upeyes:

Political correctness is moral corruption.

RC-RAMIE
09-08-2011, 12:07
Here's your example.
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2010/07/sharia-islamic-law-in-new-jersey-court-muslim-husband-rapes-beats-sexually-abuses-wife-judge-sees-no.html

Luckily, the appellate court overturned this decision, and a Sharia ruling by an American court has not been allowed to stand.

You might have missed it if you didn't read past the title

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

RC-RAMIE
09-08-2011, 12:09
Nonsense, like the rest of the article. Is this your idea of tolerance and integration?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nidal_Malik_Hasan

Nonsense like the rest of the article? Then why did you post it to support your argument?

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

Paul7
09-08-2011, 12:12
Nonsense like the rest of the article? Then why did you post it to support your argument?



To show some clueless Americans have no problem with Sharia Law, which is why we need laws banning it.

Would it be OK if US fundamentalist Christians changed the law to their liking?

Animal Mother
09-08-2011, 13:06
Nonsense, like the rest of the article. Is this your idea of tolerance and integration?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nidal_Malik_Hasan No, that's an example of a psychopath. Does the fact that Christians or Americans or African Americans commit murder indict those entire groups also in your mind?

Animal Mother
09-08-2011, 13:28
And we know from history that these adjustments will only last until the population of the saracen reaches a certain percentage. Or they'll integrate into the larger society as we also have seen through history.
In Europe for example, the host countries, until recently for some, have been making adjustments to accommodate the vocal and destructive (fast growing)minority. We seem to be following suit. No, we aren't. Unless you consider things like building mosques to be accommodating.

RC-RAMIE
09-08-2011, 13:48
That's fair.


Watching somebody closely because of their religion is fair? Innocent until proven guilty doesn't apply to Muslims that live in the US? They should be watched no more closely than any other religion.

Animal Mother
09-08-2011, 13:53
To show some clueless Americans have no problem with Sharia Law, which is why we need laws banning it. Do you support banning all religiously motivated laws?
Would it be OK if US fundamentalist Christians changed the law to their liking? Such as prohibitions on drinking? or abortion? or restricting sales on Sundays? or giving tax breaks to religious groups?

Paul7
09-08-2011, 13:58
Do you support banning all religiously motivated laws?

Only the ones that go against Western freedoms and democracy. Sharia is gender apartheid. Or you OK with gays being stoned under Sharia?

Such as prohibitions on drinking? or abortion? or restricting sales on Sundays? or giving tax breaks to religious groups?

You forgot ML King's religiously motivated effort to end racial discrimination. Funny how the left so offended by the above turn a blind eye to creeping Sharia.

Paul7
09-08-2011, 14:00
No, that's an example of a psychopath.


Funny how so many psychopaths happen to be Muslim. Are you saying Muslim = psychopath?

Paul7
09-08-2011, 14:01
Or they'll integrate into the larger society as we also have seen through history.


Is that happening with Muslims in Europe? The problem is many don't want to assimilate, they want to dominate.

Animal Mother
09-08-2011, 14:24
Funny how so many psychopaths happen to be Muslim. Please defend this assertion. You have cited one. How many non-Muslim killers were there in the US in the same year?
Are you saying Muslim = psychopath? No, I'm not saying that at all, I'm saying Nidal Hassan=psychopath. Again, I'll encourage you to read what I write, not what you wish I had written.

Animal Mother
09-08-2011, 14:29
Only the ones that go against Western freedoms and democracy. Sharia is gender apartheid. Or you OK with gays being stoned under Sharia? No, but I'm not ok with gays being hung under Christianity either.
You forgot ML King's religiously motivated effort to end racial discrimination. Funny how the left so offended by the above turn a blind eye to creeping Sharia. I didn't forget it, it wasn't relevant to the point I was making. I also didn't forget any number of Southern Baptists' religiously motivated effort to continue racial discrimination, I didn't mention that either because it was again not relevant to the point at hand.

Paul7
09-08-2011, 15:00
No, but I'm not ok with gays being hung under Christianity either.

Where is that happening under Christianity? That's about like me answering you by saying I'm not OK with atheists hanging gays.

Islam is going that:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/6940061.stm

Cavalry Doc
09-08-2011, 19:35
Luckily, the appellate court overturned this decision, and a Sharia ruling by an American court has not been allowed to stand.

You might have missed it if you didn't read past the title

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

And for a period of time, that was the law, correct?

The answer, is yes.


How about this one?
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/did-shariah-law-just-work-its-way-into-a-florida-court/

steveksux
09-08-2011, 20:29
Here's your example.
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2010/07/sharia-islamic-law-in-new-jersey-court-muslim-husband-rapes-beats-sexually-abuses-wife-judge-sees-no.html

Luckily, the appellate court overturned this decision, and a Sharia ruling by an American court has not been allowed to stand.Reading is fundamental. :rofl:

Randy

steveksux
09-08-2011, 20:30
According to a bad SCOTUS decision.Link please.
Apparently, the New York Times welcomes Sharia law:

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2011/09/nyt-op-ed-defends-sharia-in-america-without-ever-addressing-its-contents.htmlMaybe you didn't understand the question. Looking for actual examples of sharia law in the US.

Not newspaper editorials discussing sharia law. Thanks in advance.

Randy

steveksux
09-08-2011, 20:32
Watch them closely, and prosecute to the fullest extent of the law those who violate OUR laws.Watch them all? Gonna have to hire more agents. Just what we need, a massive state agency dedicated to spying on citizens. If you're talking about concentrating on the ones that are shady, that makes sense.



Many such persons have committed terror crimes.So prosecute the ones that do. You're not suggesting that's a basis for doing something to the vast majority of US citizens who have done nothing wrong?

Randy

steveksux
09-08-2011, 20:37
YOU are an example of sharia law being in effect in America.The only way the terrorists win is if we act like frightened schoolgirls and scrap our way of life. Given all your wanton fearmongering, YOU are a terrorist sympathizer.

That's right. Sharia commands that infidels may not criticize Islam at all, and you are volunteering to help enforce that by attacking and ridiculing counterjihadists who point out the evil in the Koran and its sharia law.you're a liar. I'm perfectly willing to criticize the terrorist Muslims.

We can only afford dhimmi-style ignorance in times of peace.We can't afford dummy style ignorance you espouse at any time.
More sharia in America can be seen in Obama's and Eric (Don't-Charge-the-Black-Panthers) Holder's DOJ, which is in bed with Islamic supremacist groups. It seems they've been extending certain civil-rights laws to Muslims in voting. They want to make a 'religious' (my quotes indicate my skepticism that it's a religion instead of a fascist form of politics) status into a racial one to create majority-Muslim legislative districts.DOJ doesn't set up legislative districts. So even if you were right about them wanting to do it, its not in their power to do so.

So once again, you are utterly unable to show any examples of sharia law in the US.

Massive fail, again. On the bright side, you never fail to disappoint. :rofl:

Randy

Paul7
09-08-2011, 20:45
Link please.Maybe you didn't understand the question. Looking for actual examples of sharia law in the US.

Not newspaper editorials discussing sharia law. Thanks in advance.

Randy

So people supporting Sharia law is a non-issue, huh? What a dhimmi.....

Paul7
09-08-2011, 20:47
Watch them all? Gonna have to hire more agents. Just what we need, a massive state agency dedicated to spying on citizens. If you're talking about concentrating on the ones that are shady, that makes sense.So prosecute the ones that do. You're not suggesting that's a basis for doing something to the vast majority of US citizens who have done nothing wrong?

Randy


At the very least, we can drop the political correctness that keeps us from dealing with the bad guys. That creep murderer at Ft. Hood should have been given a dishonorable discharge for his treasonous statements, made to pay back his Army education, and put on a terrorist watch list. He wasn't, and may people died. There were associates of his who were afraid to speak up because they thought their career would be harmed. I bet you would have been the first one criticizing them if they did speak up against him.

steveksux
09-08-2011, 21:21
So people supporting Sharia law is a non-issue, huh? What a dhimmi.....Better than a dummy. You really can't tell the difference between that and a law?

Randy

Again, where's the sharia law? Bueller???

steveksux
09-08-2011, 21:22
At the very least, we can drop the political correctness that keeps us from dealing with the bad guys. That creep murderer at Ft. Hood should have been given a dishonorable discharge for his treasonous statements, made to pay back his Army education, and put on a terrorist watch list. He wasn't, and may people died. There were associates of his who were afraid to speak up because they thought their career would be harmed. I bet you would have been the first one criticizing them if they did speak up against him.You bet wrong. If he was doing that stuff, they were stupid for ignoring it.

Randy

Paul7
09-08-2011, 21:39
Again, where's the sharia law? Bueller???

If it's such a non-issue, then why the big hissy-fit about laws prohibiting it?

steveksux
09-08-2011, 21:47
If it's such a non-issue, then why the big hissy-fit about laws prohibiting it?Link to hissy fit, please.

Pointing out its stupid is not a hissy fit.

Its already covered in that thing, you know, I think its called the Constitution? Ever hear of it?

Randy

Animal Mother
09-08-2011, 21:55
Where is that happening under Christianity? That's about like me answering you by saying I'm not OK with atheists hanging gays. Uganda. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12306077) Malawi. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10130240) Kenya. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-11864702)
Islam is going that:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/6940061.stm Before you object that none of my examples include actual executions, from your article: "More than a dozen Nigerian Muslims have been sentenced to death by stoning and for sexual offences ranging from adultery and homosexuality.

But none of these death sentences have actually been carried out as they were either thrown out on appeal or commuted to prison terms as a result of pressure from human rights groups. "

snowbird
09-09-2011, 09:31
Reading is fundamental...

...but you really should break out of that leftist groupthink box you've locked yourself in. I mean, there's a whole world out there beyond the fetid confines of the Koran, Das Kapital, and Mein Kampf.

Paul7
09-09-2011, 10:43
Uganda. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12306077) Malawi. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10130240) Kenya. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-11864702)

Wow, you equate a priest telling gays to repent with Muslims killing gays? BTW, atheistic Communist kill gays also. Try and put on a gay rights parade in Cuba.

Before you object that none of my examples include actual executions, from your article: "More than a dozen Nigerian Muslims have been sentenced to death by stoning and for sexual offences ranging from adultery and homosexuality.

But none of these death sentences have actually been carried out as they were either thrown out on appeal or commuted to prison terms as a result of pressure from human rights groups. "

Does this make you feel better?

"According to the Iranian gay and lesbian rights group Homan, the Iranian government alone has put to death an estimated 4,000 homosexuals since the Islamic revolution of 1979."

Cavalry Doc
09-09-2011, 16:59
So people supporting Sharia law is a non-issue, huh? What a dhimmi.....

It was more than support, the court ordered the participants to use sharia law to settle their difference.


http://www.theblaze.com/stories/did-...florida-court/

But some people will say that doesn't count by moving the goal post for the request.

Paul7
09-09-2011, 17:39
It was more than support, the court ordered the participants to use sharia law to settle their difference.


http://www.theblaze.com/stories/did-...florida-court/

But some people will say that doesn't count by moving the goal post for the request.

Right, nothing to see here, move along......

steveksux
09-09-2011, 17:50
...but you really should break out of that leftist groupthink box you've locked yourself in. I mean, there's a whole world out there beyond the fetid confines of the Koran, Das Kapital, and Mein Kampf.
Why don't you loan them to me, and I'll try reading them. If you can bear to part with them. I'm sure they provide you with great comfort.

Of course, since you have nothing of substance to offer, you resort to pathetic attempts at name calling. How very telling. It's apparent even you are dimly aware how pathetic your position is, just can't admit it.

Randy

Paul7
09-09-2011, 19:28
Why don't you loan them to me, and I'll try reading them. If you can bear to part with them. I'm sure they provide you with great comfort.

Of course, since you have nothing of substance to offer, you resort to pathetic attempts at name calling. How very telling. It's apparent even you are dimly aware how pathetic your position is, just can't admit it.

Randy

Funny, I think snowbird is the voice of reason.....

kirgi08
09-09-2011, 21:18
He is.'08.

Animal Mother
09-09-2011, 21:38
Wow, you equate a priest telling gays to repent with Muslims killing gays? No, I don't. You should try actually reading the articles, not just the headlines.
BTW, atheistic Communist kill gays also. Try and put on a gay rights parade in Cuba. OK, I'm not sure how that's relevant to the point at hand. My position is that discrimination against and criminalization of homosexuals is wrong, it doesn't matter who does it.
Does this make you feel better?

"According to the Iranian gay and lesbian rights group Homan, the Iranian government alone has put to death an estimated 4,000 homosexuals since the Islamic revolution of 1979." Why would it make me feel better? My point was that criminalization of homosexuality takes place under Christian control just as it does under Muslim dominance. How does this change that?

Animal Mother
09-09-2011, 21:47
Funny, I think snowbird is the voice of reason..... Sadly, I believe it's true that you think that.

Paul7
09-09-2011, 22:17
Sadly, I believe it's true that you think that.

So says, AM, the human pinata on this forum.

Paul7
09-09-2011, 22:21
No, I don't. You should try actually reading the articles, not just the headlines.

And you should try reading your articles before you post them. The Uganda one told of a priest telling gays to repent, which I'm sure to you is a crime. The death threats against gays in that article had no Christian link.

OK, I'm not sure how that's relevant to the point at hand. My position is that discrimination against and criminalization of homosexuals is wrong, it doesn't matter who does it.

I have no problem with the criminalization of homosexuality, if that's what people want. Didn't you say what is moral is what a given locale decides?

Why would it make me feel better? My point was that criminalization of homosexuality takes place under Christian control just as it does under Muslim dominance. How does this change that?

Unless you can find a Christian nation that has executed 4,000 gays since 1979, your sick attempt at moral equivalency fails.

Animal Mother
09-09-2011, 23:45
And you should try reading your articles before you post them. The Uganda one told of a priest telling gays to repent, which I'm sure to you is a crime. The death threats against gays in that article had no Christian link. It also told of the 14 year prison sentences for homosexuality, a bill in that would have punished homosexuality with hanging, and a campaign run by a magazine who's publisher is an evangelical Christian to hang gays.
I have no problem with the criminalization of homosexuality, if that's what people want. What a completely non-shocking revelation. How do you reconcile that with condemning the criminalization of homosexuality under Islam?
Didn't you say what is moral is what a given locale decides? No, a given society determines the morality within that society. A position you have explicitly agreed with.
Unless you can find a Christian nation that has executed 4,000 gays since 1979, your sick attempt at moral equivalency fails. Thankfully, there haven't been any Christian nations with the authority to do so in the last 30 years, despite the desires of some that it were different.

Paul7
09-10-2011, 09:21
It also told of the 14 year prison sentences for homosexuality, a bill in that would have punished homosexuality with hanging, and a campaign run by a magazine who's publisher is an evangelical Christian to hang gays.

Have you come up with that Christian nation yet that has killed 4,000 gays since 1979?

What a completely non-shocking revelation. How do you reconcile that with condemning the criminalization of homosexuality under Islam?

Never said that, I condemn the killing of gays (and other 'wrong-thinking' people) under Islam. If Jesus came upon a repentant gay, He would say to him the same thing He said to the woman caught in adultery, "Go, and sin no more."

No, a given society determines the morality within that society.

So why is Iran killing 4,000 gays wrong? For Pete's sake, I'm still trying to get you to condemn the Aztecs for tearing the hearts out of 250,000 sacrifice victims a year.

A position you have explicitly agreed with.

No I didn't, to me it has more to do with what God commands. Unlike you, I don't use my fallen and finite human reason to overrule Him.

Thankfully, there haven't been any Christian nations with the authority to do so in the last 30 years, despite the desires of some that it were different.

Or any Christians who want to. Unfortunately there are a few Communist atheist regimes hanging on who do this. Try 'coming out' as a gay in Cuba.

steveksux
09-10-2011, 11:01
...but you really should break out of that leftist groupthink box you've locked yourself in. I mean, there's a whole world out there beyond the fetid confines of the Koran, Das Kapital, and Mein Kampf.

Says the guy that wants to set up a police state, as long as its only going after someone else. I wouldn't want to deprive you of your treasured book collection for a moment.

Time to put on your big boy panties for a change. I'm different than you, I prefer to look toward the Founding Fathers for wisdom instead of fascists and socialists. Those who trade freedom for security deserve neither. See if you can find that quote. HInt: It ain't in Das Kapital or Mein Kampf.

Have to say, you're more of an ******* than usual for throwing out this sort of insult. Moreso as a matter of degree rather than kind.

Randy

snowbird
09-10-2011, 11:54
Says the guy that wants to set up a police state...Have to say, you're more of an ******* than usual for throwing out this sort of insult

Uh, it's you supporters of Islamofascism that want to set up a police state. And to do that, leftist dhimmis try to do character assassination on conservatives every chance they get -look at your post.

Consider this Islam that you shill for: they call non-Muslims 'najis' which means filth. Their Koran equates us with feces, and you say your support of this stands for freedom? They call each other 'brothers and sisters'. Non-Muslims may also, more politely, be called 'kafirs', or infidels. Infidels are subdivided into 'dhimmis' (sandal-lickers who are already subjugated), and 'harbis' (feistier kafirs whom Muslims believe should be killed outright. Of course, us harbis say that won't happen at least until after the fight). You are aiding and abetting a gigantic Fifth Column against America, an action that would make Benedict Arnold blush.

happyguy
09-10-2011, 13:02
Looks like I'm late to a long thread.

Anyone who insults Islam and doesn't take steps to protect and defend themselves and their family is being very foolish.

Regards,
Happyguy :)

steveksux
09-10-2011, 13:11
Uh, it's you supporters of Islamofascism that want to set up a police state. And to do that, leftist dhimmis try to do character assassination on conservatives every chance they get -look at your post.Why don't you look at my post and stop making stuff up, sparky.

Consider this Islam that you shill for: they call non-Muslims 'najis' which means filth. Their Koran equates us with feces, and you say your support of this stands for freedom? They call each other 'brothers and sisters'. Non-Muslims may also, more politely, be called 'kafirs', or infidels. Infidels are subdivided into 'dhimmis' (sandal-lickers who are already subjugated), and 'harbis' (feistier kafirs whom Muslims believe should be killed outright. Of course, us harbis say that won't happen at least until after the fight). You are aiding and abetting a gigantic Fifth Column against America, an action that would make Benedict Arnold blush.If there was any reason to even suspect you know what you're talking about, or to have any respect whatsoever for you, I might be offended. :rofl:

I'm the one standing up for the America the Founding Fathers envisioned, rather than the police state you dream of. You can play Benedict Arnold by yourself. I stand up for American citizens who enjoy all the rights Americans are guaranteed, even the Muslims, so long as they abide by the laws. If/when the extremist islamists try to take America away, I'll be glad to fight it. You're attempting to throw America away without a fight out of sheer cowardice.

Randy

snowbird
09-11-2011, 16:38
I do see a...city full of Muslims in the US, Dearborn, with no sharia law or problems from Muslims blowing things up

Christians have been arrested in Dearborn for handing out fliers as per our First Amendment of our Constitution, on public sidewalks, yet you keep spouting takiyya that here is no sharia in Dearborn or in the USA.

A Muslim tried to blow up an innocent crowd, which included lots of children, who wanted to watch a Christmas tree lighting in Portland, Oregon, last Christmas, yet you takiyya that Muslims don't blow things up over here.

If there's no sharia in the USA, then why did lawyer J. Levitky have to write a letter to Delta Airlines asking them to back out of their agreement with Muslim Saudi Arabia, which would involve sharia discrimination being practiced on US soil? Saudi bars Jews, passengers with Israeli passports, and those with Israeli stamps in their passports, from boarding flights to the desert kingdom. Do you think the Founding Fathers stood for that?

You claim to be like our Founding Fathers, but IIRC, George Washington didn't lie like you. In fact, he said, "I cannot tell a lie, I cut down that cherry tree". You should come clean too, recognize that Islam is the enemy of freedom, and take it from there.

snowbird
09-11-2011, 17:15
Anyone who insults Islam and doesn't take steps to protect and defend themselves and their family is being very foolish

I think you have a realistic assessment of "the religion of peace".

The Koran basically says anyone who remains a 'kafir' (non-Muslim) is 'insulting' Islam, and therefore fair game for murder.

I like the attitude of whoever wrote New Hampshire's state motto, "Live free or die". That takes courage, especially in this day and age of ongoing Muslim immigration, aided and abetted by traitors among our populace.

Anti-Second Amendment, Islamophilic lefty bedwetter, upon being confronted by his first hostile jihadist: "But, but...I thought government was supposed to protect us. I'm flabbergasted".

American with a New Hampshirite attitude: "I guess I'll just keep my .45, thank you. Reminder to self: buy more ammo".

ksg0245
09-11-2011, 19:49
Christians have been arrested in Dearborn for handing out fliers as per our First Amendment of our Constitution, on public sidewalks, yet you keep spouting takiyya that here is no sharia in Dearborn or in the USA.

That claim has already been debunked here several times.

A letter from the Dearborn Mayor's Office - http://studygrowknowblog.com/2010/07/10/city-of-dearborn-responds-to-arrests-of-arab-christians-at-festival/
"This past year, five Christian organizations and two Muslim organizations chose this lawful method of reaching the attendees. This is similar to past years and there has never been a problem or controversy about this type of preaching or religious engagement. The total number of table vendors at the festival exceeds eighty, so these seven faith-based groups represent a relatively small aspect of the festival. In all the materials released by Acts 17 Apologetics they have failed to mention this manner of preaching and evidencing the teaching of Jesus Christ, even though they have been offered the same opportunity each year.

"In addition to the booths, we have a free speech zone at the festival for those that want free access to the festival to promote their message. This space was utilized this past year by two different Christian groups who were allowed to preach and proselytize the entire weekend without any interference. Acts 17 Apologetics did not mention this either, even though they were within 30 feet of this space when they pretended to be arrested. Yes, I said pretended to be arrested. In a video they have posted on their website, they are standing near the Ferris wheel when some police officers approached them on Saturday, June 19. They lead you to believe that they were arrested shortly thereafter for passing out Christian flyers. Although they were temporarily detained for violating the festival rules regarding the location of the distribution of literature, they were not arrested on that day. And they were never arrested for passing out flyers.

"On Friday, June 18, they behaved very differently than what you saw on film from Saturday, June 19. They were not handing out flyers but were aggressively engaging passers-by in confrontational debate when they were arrested and cited for Breach of the Peace and Failure to Obey the Lawful Order of a Police Officer. See www.cityofdearborn.org for more details.

"Acts 17 always retained the right to carry out their activities in a lawful manner at the festival. The video taken on Saturday illustrates that the group returned to the festival after the four arrests on Friday."

More at the site.

A Muslim tried to blow up an innocent crowd, which included lots of children, who wanted to watch a Christmas tree lighting in Portland, Oregon, last Christmas, yet you takiyya that Muslims don't blow things up over here.

Timothy McVeigh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_McVeigh#Political_views_and_religious_beliefs)
"McVeigh was a registered Republican when he lived in Buffalo, New York in the 1980s, and had a membership in the National Rifle Association while in the military.[84]

McVeigh was raised Roman Catholic.[85] During his childhood, he and his father attended Mass regularly.[86] McVeigh was confirmed at the Good Shepherd Church in Pendleton, New York, in 1985.[87] In a 1996 interview, McVeigh professed belief in "a God", although he said he had "sort of lost touch with" Catholicism and "I never really picked it up, however I do maintain core beliefs."[85] In the 2001 book American Terrorist, McVeigh stated that he did not believe in Hell and that science is his religion.[88][89] In June, 2001, a day before the execution, McVeigh wrote a letter to the Buffalo News identifying as agnostic.[90] Before his execution, McVeigh took the Catholic sacrament of the Anointing of the Sick.[91]"

You remind me of him. He also wrote this:
"It also stands to reason that anyone who sympathizes with the enemy or gives aid or comfort to said enemy is likewise guilty. I have sworn to uphold and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic and I will. And I will because not only did I swear to, but I believe in what it stands for in every bit of my heart, soul and being.

"I know in my heart that I am right in my struggle, Steve. I have come to peace with myself, my God and my cause. Blood will flow in the streets, Steve. Good vs. Evil. Free Men vs. Socialist Wannabe Slaves. Pray it is not your blood, my friend."

If there's no sharia in the USA, then why did lawyer J. Levitky have to write a letter to Delta Airlines asking them to back out of their agreement with Muslim Saudi Arabia, which would involve sharia discrimination being practiced on US soil? Saudi bars Jews, passengers with Israeli passports, and those with Israeli stamps in their passports, from boarding flights to the desert kingdom. Do you think the Founding Fathers stood for that?

Is Delta Airlines a government agency?

Should all foreign airports be required to abide by US law?

You're the one who wants to stop all Muslims from coming to the US, right?

You claim to be like our Founding Fathers, but IIRC, George Washington didn't lie like you. In fact, he said, "I cannot tell a lie, I cut down that cherry tree". You should come clean too, recognize that Islam is the enemy of freedom, and take it from there.

http://americanhistory.about.com/cs/georgewashington/f/washcherrytree.htm
Question: Did George Washington chop down a cherry tree and tell his father the truth?

Answer: As far as we know, no. In fact, Washington's biographer, Mason Weems, wrote a book called "The Life of Washington" shortly after his death where he created this myth as a way to show Washington's honesty.

steveksux
09-11-2011, 21:19
Christians have been arrested in Dearborn for handing out fliers as per our First Amendment of our Constitution, on public sidewalks, yet you keep spouting takiyya that here is no sharia in Dearborn or in the USA.You're either misinformed or lying. Funny how all the other Christians passing out literature in the designated areas were fine, weren't even hassled. These guys were arrested for disturbing the peace plain and simple. Not simple enough for you apparently.

A Muslim tried to blow up an innocent crowd, which included lots of children, who wanted to watch a Christmas tree lighting in Portland, Oregon, last Christmas, yet you takiyya that Muslims don't blow things up over here.
Timothy McVeigh blew something up too, guess we better ban Christians too. Throw those Muslims in jail. They broke the law. Leave the law abiding ones alone. That's how free countries work.

If there's no sharia in the USA, then why did lawyer J. Levitky have to write a letter to Delta Airlines asking them to back out of their agreement with Muslim Saudi Arabia, which would involve sharia discrimination being practiced on US soil? Saudi bars Jews, passengers with Israeli passports, and those with Israeli stamps in their passports, from boarding flights to the desert kingdom. Do you think the Founding Fathers stood for that?They'd say you'd have to be something of an idiot to think Delta Airlines makes any laws in the US. You don't really believe that, do you? The Saudis are wrong. But you're no better than the Saudis, its no different than what you want to do to Muslims.

You claim to be like our Founding Fathers, but IIRC, George Washington didn't lie like you. In fact, he said, "I cannot tell a lie, I cut down that cherry tree". You should come clean too, recognize that Islam is the enemy of freedom, and take it from there.Too bad that story about Washington is a fabrication. :rofl: Seems you're still having trouble distinguishing reality from fantasy. You're the enemy of freedom.

Freedom takes a bit of balls. If freedom is too frightening to you, move to Canada. The Muslims don't seem to be going after Canadians much.

Even Israel has Arab citizens living in their country, voting and everything. They've had way more trouble with terrorists than we have, on an ongoing basis. If they can handle it, we sure as hell can too. Time to put on your big boy pants.

Randy

Paul7
09-11-2011, 23:06
Timothy McVeigh blew something up too, guess we better ban Christians too.

You might have a point if McVeigh was a Christian.

Animal Mother
09-11-2011, 23:07
Have you come up with that Christian nation yet that has killed 4,000 gays since 1979? I don't recall claiming any such nation currently exists, not that there aren't some in the dominionist movement who aren't eager to see the death penalty for homosexuals implemented (along with adulterers, those performing or receiving abortions, and probably disobedient children).
Never said that, I condemn the killing of gays (and other 'wrong-thinking' people) under Islam. If Jesus came upon a repentant gay, He would say to him the same thing He said to the woman caught in adultery, "Go, and sin no more." So you don't condemn criminalization, but you do condemn execution even though that's the penalty called for in the Bible too. It's nice to see you do draw the line somewhere, even if it's far too late.
So why is Iran killing 4,000 gays wrong? I think it's wrong for the same reason I'd think it was wrong to execute someone for adultery, because those are the moral standards I hold.
For Pete's sake, I'm still trying to get you to condemn the Aztecs for tearing the hearts out of 250,000 sacrifice victims a year. Of course I condemn the practice of human sacrifice, have I ever said otherwise? On the other hand, I still don't understand how you can oppose killing in that instance but support it when it comes to the slaughters of Native Americans at European hands.
No I didn't, to me it has more to do with what God commands. Unlike you, I don't use my fallen and finite human reason to overrule Him. You keep changing your position, which makes it difficult to determine what you believe. If you truly believed God had commanded you to kill homosexuals for being homosexual, would you do so?
Or any Christians who want to. Unfortunately there are a few Communist atheist regimes hanging on who do this. Try 'coming out' as a gay in Cuba. Any Christians who want to what? Execute homosexuals for being homosexual? There certainly are some of those, as both the Ugandan Rolling Stone cover story and writings by American dominionists demonstrate.

Paul7
09-11-2011, 23:11
I don't recall claiming any such nation currently exists, not that there aren't some in the dominionist movement who aren't eager to see the death penalty for homosexuals implemented (along with adulterers, those performing or receiving abortions, and probably disobedient children).
So you don't condemn criminalization, but you do condemn execution even though that's the penalty called for in the Bible too. It's nice to see you do draw the line somewhere, even if it's far too late.
I think it's wrong for the same reason I'd think it was wrong to execute someone for adultery, because those are the moral standards I hold.
Of course I condemn the practice of human sacrifice, have I ever said otherwise? On the other hand, I still don't understand how you can oppose killing in that instance but support it when it comes to the slaughters of Native Americans at European hands.
You keep changing your position, which makes it difficult to determine what you believe. If you truly believed God had commanded you to kill homosexuals for being homosexual, would you do so?
Any Christians who want to what? Execute homosexuals for being homosexual? There certainly are some of those, as both the Ugandan Rolling Stone cover story and writings by American dominionists demonstrate.

There is no such thing as domionism, except in the minds of certain anti-Christian bigots. I could as easily call atheists domionists since they want to expand the atheist dominion.

Animal Mother
09-11-2011, 23:13
You might have a point if McVeigh was a Christian. OK. Timothy McVeigh blew something up too, guess we better ban Republicans too. Does that work better for you?

How about: Timothy McVeigh blew something up too, guess we better ban gun owners too.

Or: Timothy McVeigh blew something up too, guess we better ban former members of the Army too.

Just to head off the feigned outrage let me explicitly state that I'm not advocating any of these things, just pointing out the absurdity of condemning an entire group based on the actions of a minute number of those who could be considered members of that group.

Animal Mother
09-11-2011, 23:19
There is no such thing as domionism, except in the minds of certain anti-Christian bigots. I could as easily call atheists domionists since they want to expand the atheist dominion. If you prefer Christian Reconstructionism as the label, feel free to use it, but denying the movement exists is absurd based on both published works and ongoing advocacy.

ksg0245
09-12-2011, 07:50
You might have a point if McVeigh was a Christian.

From my earlier post: "Before his execution, McVeigh took the Catholic sacrament of the Anointing of the Sick."

Why would he do that if he wasn't a Christian?

kirgi08
09-12-2011, 08:12
Hedging his bets.'08.

snowbird
09-12-2011, 09:48
The Muslims don't seem to be going after Canadians much.

Can you read the title of this thread?

Muslims are ordered by their pedophile 'prophet' and their 'holy' Koran to "go after" (they call it jihad, sometimes assisted by takiyya) ANYONE who is non-Muslim. That includes Canadians, Americans, Australians, Israelis, Swedes, Buddhists, etc

Wake up!

ksg0245
09-12-2011, 09:56
Hedging his bets.'08.

Is your deity that easily fooled?

kirgi08
09-12-2011, 10:20
No, hence the "hedging"comment.'08.

kirgi08
09-12-2011, 10:23
Is your deity that easily fooled?

D@D player,I'ze reckons.'08. :dunno:

ksg0245
09-12-2011, 13:14
D@D player,I'ze reckons.'08. :dunno:

Your deity plays D&D?

kirgi08
09-12-2011, 13:17
:fishing:

Norske
09-12-2011, 15:21
Watching somebody closely because of their religion is fair? Innocent until proven guilty doesn't apply to Muslims that live in the US? They should be watched no more closely than any other religion.

"Religious tolerance" is a Western concept that Islam does not share.

It is OUR rule.

It is OUR rule to CHANGE if we find it necessary to do so for our protection against the violence inherent in Islam.

A certain segment of Islam believes it to be their religious duty to bring the entire world under Sharia law by any means necessary, including violent means.

THAT was what 9/11/01 was all about!

Add in "takiyya" whereby Muslims are not only allowed but encouraged to lie to infidels "for their own protection" and we poor infidels would be wise to never trust the word of a Muslim under any circumstance.

Trusting them with our lives is utterly foolish!

You don't like being distrusted and watched?

Tough. :steamed:

Convert to a more peaceful religion.

RC-RAMIE
09-12-2011, 15:36
"Religious tolerance" is a Western concept that Islam does not share.

It is OUR rule.

It is OUR rule to CHANGE if we find it necessary to do so for our protection against the violence inherent in Islam.

A certain segment of Islam believes it to be their religious duty to bring the entire world under Sharia law by any means necessary, including violent means.

THAT was what 9/11/01 was all about!

Add in "takiyya" whereby Muslims are not only allowed but encouraged to lie to infidels "for their own protection" and we poor infidels would be wise to never trust the word of a Muslim under any circumstance.

Trusting them with our lives is utterly foolish!

You don't like being distrusted and watched?

Tough. :steamed:

Convert to a more peaceful religion.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

All men no matter their religion including muslims

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

happyguy
09-12-2011, 16:46
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

All men no matter their religion including muslims

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And we should endeavor to ensure that no one deprives Americans of those rights, regardless how brutal we must become.

Regards,
Happyguy :)

RC-RAMIE
09-12-2011, 16:48
And we should endeavor to ensure that no one deprives Americans of those rights, regardless how brutal we must become.

Regards,
Happyguy :)

The Muslims we are talking about are Americans.

Norske
09-12-2011, 18:55
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

All men no matter their religion including muslims

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

Men are CREATED equal.

Then some of them grow up in a religion that teaches them that it is their religious duty to kill and enslave any and all of those who do not kowtow to their asinine religion.

And thus we wind up witnessing atrocities like 9/11/01.

Why should those who do not believe in religious freedom, or any OTHER freedom for infidels for that matter, enjoy such freedom from their intended victims?

:dunno:

Norske
09-12-2011, 18:58
The Muslims we are talking about are Americans.

See #182.

"Religious Freedom" does NOT include the "right" to deny religious freedom of those who do not subscribe to the same religion.

Where was the respect for "Life, LIberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness" of the 3,000-plus Americans (and others!) who died on 9/11/01 for the greater glory of Islam?

:dunno:

Double standards are asinine.

I do not respect a religion, or it's Kool-Aid swilling practictioners, who do not respect MY right to be free of their asinine religion and who are willing to kill or enslave me because of my views.

rgregoryb
09-12-2011, 19:13
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

All men no matter their religion including muslims

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

you really believe all men are created equal? Take a look around, equality is a delusion.

ArtificialGrape
09-12-2011, 19:26
See #182.

"Religious Freedom" does NOT include the "right" to deny religious freedom of those who do not subscribe to the same religion.

Where was the respect for "Life, LIberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness" of the 3,000-plus Americans (and others!) who died on 9/11/01 for the greater glory of Islam?

:dunno:

Double standards are asinine.

I do not respect a religion, or it's Kool-Aid swilling practictioners, who do not respect MY right to be free of their asinine religion and who are willing to kill or enslave me because of my views.
I find this post offensive...
.
.
.
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.
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.
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At Jonestown they were drinking Flavor Aid -- not Kool-Aid. :cool:

Cavalry Doc
09-12-2011, 19:36
Men are CREATED equal.

Then some of them grow up in a religion that teaches them that it is their religious duty to kill and enslave any and all of those who do not kowtow to their asinine religion.

And thus we wind up witnessing atrocities like 9/11/01.

Why should those who do not believe in religious freedom, or any OTHER freedom for infidels for that matter, enjoy such freedom from their intended victims?

:dunno:

It's a biologic fact, and a demonstrable fact, that all men are not equal. Some are better at math, some are better at history, some drive better, and some are women.

Some women are better athletes than many men.


Religion is not the source of violence. Human free will is the source of violence. Free will is is important enough to protect, to suffer the radicals.


Violence has many motivations. Love, power, greed..... Religion is only an excuse for the motivation.

happyguy
09-12-2011, 19:37
you really believe all men are created equal? Take a look around, equality is a delusion.

I believe all men are created equal in the eyes of God, after that...?

Regards,
Happyguy :)

steveksux
09-12-2011, 19:52
You might have a point if McVeigh was a Christian.If you say so. Make it white males and the point stands. Start deporting white males, they can't be trusted. Strip their rights away.

Its for our own protection.

Randy

ArtificialGrape
09-12-2011, 20:16
If you say so. Make it white males and the point stands. Start deporting white males, they can't be trusted. Strip their rights away.

Its for our own protection.

Randy
Yep, serial killers are most likely white males.

Paul7
09-12-2011, 21:00
I find this post offensive...
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At Jonestown they were drinking Flavor Aid -- not Kool-Aid. :cool:

Actually, Jim Jones had a lot in common with you:



"By the early 1970s, Jones began deriding traditional Christianity as "fly away religion," rejecting the Bible as being white men’s justification to subordinate women and subjugate people of color and stating that it spoke of a "Sky God" who was no God at all.......

By the spring of 1976, Jones began openly admitting even to outsiders that he was an atheist."

Wikipedia

Paul7
09-12-2011, 21:02
Yep, serial killers are most likely white males.


During the cold war, it was acknowledged we were fighting a worldwide enemy united by Communist ideology. Why can't you admit we are fighting a worldwide enemy united and motivated by radical Islam?

RC-RAMIE
09-12-2011, 21:28
See #182.

"Religious Freedom" does NOT include the "right" to deny religious freedom of those who do not subscribe to the same religion.

Where was the respect for "Life, LIberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness" of the 3,000-plus Americans (and others!) who died on 9/11/01 for the greater glory of Islam?

:dunno:

Double standards are asinine.

I do not respect a religion, or it's Kool-Aid swilling practictioners, who do not respect MY right to be free of their asinine religion and who are willing to kill or enslave me because of my views.

Most Muslim Americans are normal people not terrorist and do not deserve to be watched more closely than me or you due to the actions of some terrorist groups that share the same religion.





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happyguy
09-13-2011, 01:50
Most Muslim Americans are normal people not terrorist and do not deserve to be watched more closely than me or you due to the actions of some terrorist groups that share the same religion.





Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

I agree, we should be watching Christians. They are far more likely to plan a terrorist attack.

Regards,
Happyguy :)

Norske
09-13-2011, 08:09
It's a biologic fact, and a demonstrable fact, that all men are not equal. Some are better at math, some are better at history, some drive better, and some are women.

Some women are better athletes than many men.


Religion is not the source of violence. Human free will is the source of violence. Free will is is important enough to protect, to suffer the radicals.


Violence has many motivations. Love, power, greed..... Religion is only an excuse for the motivation.

Men/Women are CREATED equal.

It is as they grow that their individual experiences, training and indoctrination cause them to become "unequal".

Good. Evil. Smart. Stupid.

We are created equal but we never stay equal.

:cool:

Norske
09-13-2011, 08:11
Most Muslim Americans are normal people not terrorist and do not deserve to be watched more closely than me or you due to the actions of some terrorist groups that share the same religion.





Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

Then go to Islamic lands and start shooting your religious Bretheren who see it as their religious duty to come over here and kill or enslave me.

Otherwise, don't waste my time whining about how "oppressed" you may be.

:tongueout:

"Freedom of religion" is not an Islamic concept.

RC-RAMIE
09-13-2011, 09:21
Then go to Islamic lands and start shooting your religious Bretheren who see it as their religious duty to come over here and kill or enslave me.

Otherwise, don't waste my time whining about how "oppressed" you may be.

:tongueout:

"Freedom of religion" is not an Islamic concept.

What does any of that have to do with American citizens that are Muslims?


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Paul7
09-13-2011, 10:03
What does any of that have to do with American citizens that are Muslims?


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Do you think American citizens that are Muslims would never commit a terror crime?

snowbird
09-13-2011, 10:04
...Muslim Americans...do not deserve to be watched more closely than me or you

Barbaric Muslim Britons just stabbed some civilized English patriots (members of the English Defense League, a non-violent counterjihadist organization trying to bring British leaders to their senses and stop the Islamization of Britain). And you say western Muslims don't 'deserve' scrutiny? Whose side are you on?

On Sept 12, 490 BC, Greek patriots won the Battle of Marathon against hordes of barbarians from the east. Who do you wish won?

On Sept 11, 1683, Polish patriots, German patriots, and Austrian patriots won at the gates of Vienna against hordes of Muslim barbarians. Who do you wish won?

Now, in 2011AD, Muslim barbarians are firing rockets into the US embassy in Kabul, Muslim barbarians are threatening to send the Turkish Navy against Israel, and Muslim barbarians stormed the Israeli Embassy in Egypt.

Whose side are you on?

RC-RAMIE
09-13-2011, 10:13
Do you think American citizens that are Muslims would never commit a terror crime?

Do you think all American citizens that are Muslim will commit a terror crime?

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Paul7
09-13-2011, 10:14
Do you think all American citizens that are Muslim will commit a terror crime?

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Straw man, nobody is saying that. Now do you want to answer my question?

RC-RAMIE
09-13-2011, 10:39
Do you think American citizens that are Muslims would never commit a terror crime?

Straw man argument I never said that, now are you gonna answer my question?

Paul7
09-13-2011, 13:13
Straw man argument I never said that, now are you gonna answer my question?

You implied it in post 196. My answer is no, how about you to my question?

RC-RAMIE
09-13-2011, 14:09
You implied it in post 196. My answer is no, how about you to my question?

You implied I thought no American muslim will commit a terrorist act which is not what I was saying

I was saying they are no more likely to commit a terrorist act just because they are muslim.


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Paul7
09-13-2011, 14:30
You implied I thought no American muslim will commit a terrorist act which is not what I was saying

I was saying they are no more likely to commit a terrorist act just because they are muslim.


Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

Nonsense, I don't remember the exact numbers but according to the Dept. of Justice something like 57 of 59 US terror attacks in a recent year were done by Muslims. See a pattern?

RC-RAMIE
09-13-2011, 14:34
Nonsense, I don't remember the exact numbers but according to the Dept. of Justice something like 57 of 59 US terror attacks in a recent year were done by Muslims. See a pattern?

59 attacks are enough to start watching 2 million american citizens more closely?

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Norske
09-13-2011, 15:49
59 attacks are enough to start watching 2 million american citizens more closely?

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Actually, the way to handle a so-called "religion" that in part preaches that it is a religious duty for it's practitioners to kill or enslave non-believers is a "religion" that needs to be redefined as what it in fact IS; a hostile POLITICAL movement that only CLAIMS to be a religion.

And thus treated under the same rules as other hostile POLITICAL organizations such as Communists, Nazis, White Supremecists, and what have you.

There are so many FBI informants salted among Aryan Nation groups that they spend most of their time informing on each other. :supergrin:

The same should be true of Islam.

In reality, the War that the so-called "religion" of Islam has waged against the entire non-Muslim world since it was founded 1,400 years ago in fact is, in the modern age, the War of Islam versus all other governmental systems.

Especially secular governmental systems, of which the USA is foremost.

That is why Islam often refers to the USA as the "Great Satan". The USA is the greatest modern bar to world-wide Sharia law.

What else could one call Islam's demand that Sharia law supplant all other forms of Religion and Government?

Paul7
09-13-2011, 15:53
59 attacks are enough to start watching 2 million american citizens more closely?

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It certainly wrecks your point that Muslims are no more likely to commit terror than others. Take off the PC blinders.

RC-RAMIE
09-13-2011, 15:56
Actually, the way to handle a so-called "religion" that in part preaches that it is a religious duty for it's practitioners to kill or enslave non-believers is a "religion" that needs to be redefined as what it in fact IS; a hostile POLITICAL movement that only CLAIMS to be a religion.

And thus treated under the same rules as other hostile POLITICAL organizations such as Communists, Nazis, White Supremecists, and what have you.

There are so many FBI informants salted among Aryan Nation groups that they spend most of their time informing on each other. :supergrin:

The same should be true of Islam.

In reality, the War that the so-called "religion" of Islam has waged against the entire non-Muslim world since it was founded 1,400 years ago in fact is, in the modern age, the War of Islam versus all other governmental systems.

Especially secular governmental systems, of which the USA is foremost.

That is why Islam often refers to the USA as the "Great Satan". The USA is the greatest modern bar to world-wide Sharia law.

What else could one call Islam's demand that Sharia law supplant all other forms of Religion and Government?

I know you like your rants but lets stick to what we are talking about American citizens that are Muslims and should we treat them different than any other American citizens?

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Cavalry Doc
09-13-2011, 16:22
I know you like your rants but lets stick to what we are talking about American citizens that are Muslims and should we treat them different than any other American citizens?

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Actually, the topic was about a Canadian.

RC-RAMIE
09-13-2011, 16:30
Actually, the topic was about a Canadian.

Actually the post he is referring to is the one where I asked why it was fair to watch Muslims who were American citizen more closely.

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Norske
09-13-2011, 17:27
I know you like your rants but lets stick to what we are talking about American citizens that are Muslims and should we treat them different than any other American citizens?

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

I think I did answer it. But let me make it clearer.

I think American Muslims, as members of a hostile political movement that simply calls itself a religion when it is not, should be treated the same way American Nazis, American Communists, American White Supremicists, and other enemies of our Constitutional government should be treated.

With suspicion. :wow:

Cavalry Doc
09-13-2011, 18:26
Actually the post he is referring to is the one where I asked why it was fair to watch Muslims who were American citizen more closely.

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Which is an off topic conversation. All you have to do is read the title and the OP.

Maybe we can ask Donglock26, since he started the thread????

RC-RAMIE
09-13-2011, 18:33
Which is an off topic conversation. All you have to do is read the title and the OP.

Maybe we can ask Donglock26, since he started the thread????

Which was a response to your post saying it was fair you are the one went off topic I just asked you a question about it.

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Cavalry Doc
09-13-2011, 18:48
Which was a response to your post saying it was fair you are the one went off topic I just asked you a question about it.

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I get it. You get to declare things off topic at will. (post #208)

How about we let the mods do that in the future?

:wavey:

RC-RAMIE
09-13-2011, 20:55
Watch them closely, and prosecute to the fullest extent of the law those who violate OUR laws.



Many such persons have committed terror crimes.

That's fair.

Watching somebody closely because of their religion is fair? Innocent until proven guilty doesn't apply to Muslims that live in the US? They should be watched no more closely than any other religion.

Which is an off topic conversation. All you have to do is read the title and the OP.

Maybe we can ask Donglock26, since he started the thread????

I get it. You get to declare things off topic at will. (post #208)

How about we let the mods do that in the future?

:wavey:

Let's walk through this

Post 108 Paul says to watch them closely, American Muslims.

Post 109 you agree. Saying that was fair

Post 124 I asked you how watching American Muslims closely was fair.

Post 178 norske Quotes post 124 (my question that I asked you) asking me about it. We discussed it for a couple of post till you come back again and

Post 209 you tell me I'm off topic

Post 210 I tell you we are talking about the question I asked you

Post 212 you tell me I'm off topic again

Post 213 I post again you are the one that posted it was fair to watch American Muslims closely I was just asking you a question. My question about your post and the discussion from it is off topic but you post about the same subject was not?

Post 214 you tell me do not try to be a mod and that I think I get to declare things off topic. Please look at post 209 and 212 again you declared it off topic I just reminded you it was your post we were talking about.

I went back and looked at post 208 again what am I Missing?

THplanes
09-14-2011, 03:31
Men/Women are CREATED equal.

It is as they grow that their individual experiences, training and indoctrination cause them to become "unequal".

Good. Evil. Smart. Stupid.

We are created equal but we never stay equal.

:cool:

This is worse than your normal rant. It's not even close to the truth. We are not born a blank slate. IQ has a genetic component as well as an environmental component. The same can be said for behavior.

snowbird
09-14-2011, 09:59
This is worse than your normal rant. It's not even close to the truth. We are not born a blank slate. IQ has a genetic component as well as an environmental component. The same can be said for behavior.

What's your point? Let me guess: basically you're taking the dhimmi stance of, 'Hooray for Islam, boo for western freedom', am I right?

In Islam, sleeping with a 9-year-old girl is okay -their 'prophet' did it. But owning a pet dog is not okay -Mohammed hated dogs, you see. It turns out a dog accompanied the SEAL team that got Osama. Unlike the billions wasted trying to win over Muslim Pakistanis and Muslim Afghans, who went on being terrorists anyway, dogs remain true and loyal friends.

You can keep your blank slates and behavior, I'll keep my dog and still advocate stopping Islamic immigration before it's too late.

Norske
09-14-2011, 13:33
This is worse than your normal rant. It's not even close to the truth. We are not born a blank slate. IQ has a genetic component as well as an environmental component. The same can be said for behavior.

Don't tell ME. :yawn:

Tell it to Thomas Jefferson.

It was HE who wrote, "We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal......" :cool:

There is good reason why his is one of the 4 heads up on Mt. Rushmore.

He was smarter than either of us will ever be.

THplanes
09-15-2011, 01:14
What's your point? Let me guess: basically you're taking the dhimmi stance of, 'Hooray for Islam, boo for western freedom', am I right?

In Islam, sleeping with a 9-year-old girl is okay -their 'prophet' did it. But owning a pet dog is not okay -Mohammed hated dogs, you see. It turns out a dog accompanied the SEAL team that got Osama. Unlike the billions wasted trying to win over Muslim Pakistanis and Muslim Afghans, who went on being terrorists anyway, dogs remain true and loyal friends.

You can keep your blank slates and behavior, I'll keep my dog and still advocate stopping Islamic immigration before it's too late.

Would you be so kind as to point out anywhere I said anything about Islam. No you're not right, not even close. Islam was created to build an army and legitimize Mohammed's conquests. It's a religion that is dangerous to everyone who is not a member.


Don't tell ME. :yawn:

Tell it to Thomas Jefferson.

It was HE who wrote, "We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal......" :cool:

There is good reason why his is one of the 4 heads up on Mt. Rushmore.

He was smarter than either of us will ever be.

What was his background in genetics and human development. I suspect that equal in this case means equal before the law or maybe God.

Norske
09-15-2011, 18:25
What was his background in genetics and human development. I suspect that equal in this case means equal before the law or maybe God.

"Background"? :wow:

Hello ---- we are talking about Thomas Jefferson, here. You know -- the guy who wrote the Declaration of Independence? Third President of the USA? Buyer of the Louisiana Purchase from Napolean? You have heard of him, right? Or are you a product of modern American government run schools and they no longer teach that particular period of American history? :dunno:

"Genetics"? During his lifetime, the steam engine had just barely been invented. I don't think Gregor Mendel, let alone his peas, had even been born yet.

As for "human development", he was probably way ahead of his time!

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights,[75] that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

I think he was pointing out that we are all born in blood and pain. IN that, we are all equal.

After that, we have the right to life, liberty, and to pursue happiness, however it is that we personnally define "happiness".

On 9/11/01, nineteen adherents of Islam denied further life, not to mention ending liberty and ending the pursuit of happiness, of 3,000 + Americans and others as well. Including a number of their fellow Muslims.

All due to their conviction that we, "the Great Satan", are the main impediment to their bringing all of mankind under the iron heel of Islamic Sharia Law.

I'll follow Thomas J any day over that idiot Mohammed.

Cavalry Doc
09-15-2011, 20:31
Let's walk through this

Post 108 Paul says to watch them closely, American Muslims.

Post 109 you agree. Saying that was fair

Post 124 I asked you how watching American Muslims closely was fair.

Post 178 norske Quotes post 124 (my question that I asked you) asking me about it. We discussed it for a couple of post till you come back again and

Post 209 you tell me I'm off topic

Post 210 I tell you we are talking about the question I asked you

Post 212 you tell me I'm off topic again

Post 213 I post again you are the one that posted it was fair to watch American Muslims closely I was just asking you a question. My question about your post and the discussion from it is off topic but you post about the same subject was not?

Post 214 you tell me do not try to be a mod and that I think I get to declare things off topic. Please look at post 209 and 212 again you declared it off topic I just reminded you it was your post we were talking about.

I went back and looked at post 208 again what am I Missing?

I've been telling you for quite a while. If you can't understand why by now, I'm not sure how I can help you. Seek counseling or tutoring. It may help.

There is a significant amount of muslims that are waging jihad against America. Not all of them, but there are enough to be significant.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92myDzAFgU4

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/al-qaeda-leader-zawahiri-posts-video-14314302

If the muslims that are being paid more attention than they like don't like it, ***** to Osama, ***** to Attah and his friends.

When I see massive amounts of them condemning the 9/11 attacks, fingering the jihadists among them, and reclaiming their peaceful religion from the jihadists, I'll be willing to turn away my attention.

Until then, all of them are going to get a bit of attention from me. I have every right to do so. I will treat them all fairly.

:wavey:

Animal Mother
09-15-2011, 23:36
There is a significant amount of muslims that are waging jihad against America. Not all of them, but there are enough to be significant. What number qualifies at significant, in your mind?

THplanes
09-16-2011, 01:21
"Background"? :wow:

Hello ---- we are talking about Thomas Jefferson, here. You know -- the guy who wrote the Declaration of Independence? Third President of the USA? Buyer of the Louisiana Purchase from Napolean? You have heard of him, right? Or are you a product of modern American government run schools and they no longer teach that particular period of American history? :dunno:

"Genetics"? During his lifetime, the steam engine had just barely been invented. I don't think Gregor Mendel, let alone his peas, had even been born yet.

As for "human development", he was probably way ahead of his time!

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights,[75] that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

I think he was pointing out that we are all born in blood and pain. IN that, we are all equal.

After that, we have the right to life, liberty, and to pursue happiness, however it is that we personnally define "happiness"..

Your rants get stranger all the time, I suppose it's an attempt at humor, sarcasm, or an insult. I believe the second part about endowed by their Creator means we are created equal before that Creator.

"
On 9/11/01, nineteen adherents of Islam denied further life, not to mention ending liberty and ending the pursuit of happiness, of 3,000 + Americans and others as well. Including a number of their fellow Muslims.

All due to their conviction that we, "the Great Satan", are the main impediment to their bringing all of mankind under the iron heel of Islamic Sharia Law.

I'll follow Thomas J any day over that idiot Mohammed.

So you do have a religious preference after all. :tongueout:
You seem to think I'm on the side supporting Islam, I'm not.

Cavalry Doc
09-16-2011, 21:18
What number qualifies at significant, in your mind?

That's easy. Enough.

Have any of the jihadists killed any of your friends? How about a co-worker? Anyone you know? Maybe a family member?

That makes all the difference, trust me.

I've had friends and co-workers killed and injured, and yes, some of that happened on American Soil. I've taken care of failed suicide bombers, mortar men, and their handlers. I've gotten to know them a bit, and am still a bit skeptical about the ability to rehab many of them. I'm all for enforcing the law of land warfare and the Geneva conventions. Keep 'em locked up until we get a peace treaty.

HIV isn't really real until you meet someone you knew before that has it now. Same with cancer. Same with Jihad. It sounds so bizarre that it's hard to believe. That people would be running around loose, with a religious and political belief that it would be a good thing to die themselves, just after they kill you.

Good reason to always have a spare mag or two around.

happyguy
09-17-2011, 06:35
59 attacks are enough to start watching 2 million american citizens more closely?

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No of course not. If we pretend they and their religion are not a threat everything will be fine. We just have to wish hard enough.

Regards,
Happyguy :)

Paul7
09-17-2011, 07:34
What number qualifies at significant, in your mind?

How about the Pew poll showing a quarter of young US Muslims think suicide bombings are sometimes justified? Is that significant?

creaky
09-17-2011, 09:39
I know you like your rants but lets stick to what we are talking about American citizens that are Muslims and should we treat them different than any other American citizens?

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I've come to the conclusion that you don't have a lick of common sense. The saracen are a problem population wherever they dwell, no matter the region or country.

You need to have the courage to deal with the world as it is, not as you would wish it to be. All this academic, theoretical mumbo jumbo and angst over their rights will accomplish nothing but get more people killed. How many attacks in the name of allah will it take for you to realize this? Maybe it'll take (God forbid) someone close to you getting hurt by one of these people before you wake up.

Someone close to my family was killed by one of the filthy cave dwelling rats in Afghanistan. Every time I think about it, I see red.

I have no sympathy for the saracen. I want them out of my country, lock, stock and barrel.

Kingarthurhk
09-17-2011, 09:54
I've come to the conclusion that you don't have a lick of common sense. The saracen are a problem population wherever they dwell, no matter the region or country.

You need to have the courage to deal with the world as it is, not as you would wish it to be. All this academic, theoretical mumbo jumbo and angst over their rights will accomplish nothing but get more people killed. How many attacks in the name of allah will it take for you to realize this? Maybe it'll take (God forbid) someone close to you getting hurt by one of these people before you wake up.

Someone close to my family was killed by one of the filthy cave dwelling rats in Afghanistan. Every time I think about it, I see red.

I have no sympathy for the saracen. I want them out of my country, lock, stock and barrel.

There is a distinguishing difference between the Saracen class and the Berber class. I think you are thinking of the berbers. Saracens were by -and-large simply educated thinkers who were tolerant to Christians and Jews. The Berber class who pushed through the African continent are more reminiscent of Medieval Catholicism that converted by force.

RC-RAMIE
09-17-2011, 10:03
I've come to the conclusion that you don't have a lick of common sense. The saracen are a problem population wherever they dwell, no matter the region or country.

You need to have the courage to deal with the world as it is, not as you would wish it to be. All this academic, theoretical mumbo jumbo and angst over their rights will accomplish nothing but get more people killed. How many attacks in the name of allah will it take for you to realize this? Maybe it'll take (God forbid) someone close to you getting hurt by one of these people before you wake up.

Someone close to my family was killed by one of the filthy cave dwelling rats in Afghanistan. Every time I think about it, I see red.

I have no sympathy for the saracen. I want them out of my country, lock, stock and barrel.

I will keep my conclusion about you to myself. I will not treat a individual different based on his religion and what others in that religion does or believes.

The same way I don't judge Christians based off the things you say.

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creaky
09-17-2011, 10:04
There is a distinguishing difference between the Saracen class and the Berber class. I think you are thinking of the berbers. Saracens were by -and-large simply educated thinkers who were tolerant to Christians and Jews. The Berber class who pushed through the African continent are more reminiscent of Medieval Catholicism that converted by force.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/saracen

See definition number 3.

I use it in the crusader sense.

creaky
09-17-2011, 10:09
I will keep my conclusion about you to myself. I will not treat a individual different based on his religion and what others in that religion does or believes.

The same way I don't judge Christians based off the things you say.

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Have it your way. Ignore reality and blunder on. You might get lucky.

happyguy
09-17-2011, 10:10
I love Muslims.




















































Jesus told me to love my enemy...






























...I carry a pistol for the ones that don't love me back.

:cheers:


Regards,
Happyguy :)

Akil8290
09-17-2011, 18:34
I love Muslims.

Masha'Allah, masha'Allah..

Akil8290
09-17-2011, 18:40
I've come to the conclusion that you don't have a lick of common sense. The saracen are a problem population wherever they dwell, no matter the region or country.

You need to have the courage to deal with the world as it is, not as you would wish it to be. All this academic, theoretical mumbo jumbo and angst over their rights will accomplish nothing but get more people killed. How many attacks in the name of allah will it take for you to realize this? Maybe it'll take (God forbid) someone close to you getting hurt by one of these people before you wake up.

Someone close to my family was killed by one of the filthy cave dwelling rats in Afghanistan. Every time I think about it, I see red.

I have no sympathy for the saracen. I want them out of my country, lock, stock and barrel.

You need to reign it in a little.

One of your people was killed in Afghanistan by, I presume, the Taliban; I'm sorry to hear that.

That's got nothing to do with me or my peaceful brothers and sisters (true Muslims). We've had this discussion before.

kirgi08
09-17-2011, 19:00
There is no Muslim light.'08.

happyguy
09-17-2011, 19:14
Masha'Allah, masha'Allah..

I am not sure I deserve that, but thank you for the kind thoughts.

Regards,
Happyguy :)

Cavalry Doc
09-17-2011, 19:20
There is no Muslim light.'08.

BS. :dunno:



They all get lighter after a week or two in the sun.


Smell like poop marinated jerky.

kirgi08
09-17-2011, 19:42
Damn Doc.'08. :moonie:

Cavalry Doc
09-17-2011, 19:45
Damn Doc.'08. :moonie:

If I am factually incorrect, I'll be willing to admit my error.

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p158/CavalryDoc/CavDoc-2.gif

kirgi08
09-17-2011, 19:48
Never said and or meant that,I was in an earlier conflict.I will always defer ta your knowledge.'08. :wavey:

Animal Mother
09-18-2011, 00:46
How about the Pew poll showing a quarter of young US Muslims think suicide bombings are sometimes justified? Is that significant? Are similar polls that find over 50% of Americans believe attacks on civilians are justified significant? If so, how do you condemn Islam as a whole in the first instance and not condemn Americans as a whole in the second?

Animal Mother
09-18-2011, 00:50
That's easy. Enough. It's odd that someone who was so dedicated to supposed precision in his atheism thread now embraces the nebulous. Perhaps your standards are maleable. :dunno:

Animal Mother
09-18-2011, 00:53
Someone close to my family was killed by one of the filthy cave dwelling rats in Afghanistan. Every time I think about it, I see red. A friend of mine died in the Virginia tech massacre. Does that justify expelling all Korean-Americans?
I have no sympathy for the saracen. I want them out of my country, lock, stock and barrel. And this would be the kind of thing that gets you called a bigot.

Paul7
09-18-2011, 08:26
Are similar polls that find over 50% of Americans believe attacks on civilians are justified significant?

Cite? I've never heard of this poll that Americans approve of killing civilians willy-nilly. The Islamist goal is to kill infidel civilians.

If so, how do you condemn Islam as a whole

Where am I condemning Islam as a whole?

in the first instance and not condemn Americans as a whole in the second?

I know that comes naturally to you and Ward Churchill.

creaky
09-18-2011, 10:12
A friend of mine died in the Virginia tech massacre. Does that justify expelling all Korean-Americans?
And this would be the kind of thing that gets you called a bigot.

I'm sorry to hear it.

The subject gets me bent out of shape and I do get out of hand with my comments at times. That's all I'll say.

snowbird
09-18-2011, 10:36
nothing to do with me or my peaceful brothers and sisters (true Muslims)

Help us to understand why 'true Muslims' remain silent about three Malaysians, including a three-year-old child, getting killed by Muslim terrorists in southern Thailand just the other day, but these same 'true Muslim's weren't at all bashful about their outrage over cartoons a few years ago which allegedly "insulted" their Prophet?

Could the lack of 'true Muslim' anger over this little child getting blown up by Muslim terrorists be because these Malaysians were of Chinese descent? And because Islam deems a dead 'infidel' at the hands of Muslims to be of no consequence?

Could it be that Islam = hypocrisy par excellence?

snowbird
09-18-2011, 10:42
...how do you condemn Islam as a whole...and not condemn Americans as a whole...?

You serve Mohammed well.

When will you ever start serving American freedom?

Akil8290
09-18-2011, 21:36
Help us to understand why 'true Muslims' remain silent about three Malaysians, including a three-year-old child, getting killed by Muslim terrorists in southern Thailand just the other day, but these same 'true Muslim's weren't at all bashful about their outrage over cartoons a few years ago which allegedly "insulted" their Prophet?

Could the lack of 'true Muslim' anger over this little child getting blown up by Muslim terrorists be because these Malaysians were of Chinese descent? And because Islam deems a dead 'infidel' at the hands of Muslims to be of no consequence?

Could it be that Islam = hypocrisy par excellence?

And you're still spewing your B.S. rhetoric..how shocking.

I speak out against those kind of atrocities; most of us do. Check out the The American Muslim, which is a publication that addresses all of these issues; terrorism being a frequently discussed topic. Muslims speak out against violence all the time; you choose not to see it.

Lack of anger because these Malaysians where of Chinese descent? Not likely; there's about 25 million Hui Muslims in China. Chinese Muslims are a HUGE part of the international Muslim community. Infidel or not, the Qur'an teaches that violence against those that are not fighting you is wrong.

I also noticed your comment to Animal Mother about serving Mohammad well; the true question is are you serving Jesus well, Christian? Uh, no.

Akil8290
09-18-2011, 21:45
The subject gets me bent out of shape and I do get out of hand with my comments at times..

You're Catholic, are you not?

If I remember correctly from my days in Catholic school, there's a verse in the "Our Father" prayer, that even as a Muslim, I still take to heart:
"And forgive us our trespasses, as we forigive those that trespass against us.."

Please remind yourself of that once in a while; I know I have to. I know its hard sometimes and we all are sinners, but remember that verse.

ksg0245
09-18-2011, 23:06
Help us to understand why 'true Muslims' remain silent about three Malaysians, including a three-year-old child, getting killed by Muslim terrorists in southern Thailand just the other day, but these same 'true Muslim's weren't at all bashful about their outrage over cartoons a few years ago which allegedly "insulted" their Prophet?

Could the lack of 'true Muslim' anger over this little child getting blown up by Muslim terrorists be because these Malaysians were of Chinese descent? And because Islam deems a dead 'infidel' at the hands of Muslims to be of no consequence?

Could it be that Islam = hypocrisy par excellence?

You keep lying about Muslims not objecting to or protesting acts of terror, even after having evidence repeatedly presented to you that Muslims do, in fact, object to and protest acts of terror.

There are clinical terms for that sort of behavior.